The Ringer NBA Show - Denver Toasts the Suns, Plus One Burning Question for Every Series | Group Chat

Episode Date: April 30, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos react to the Nuggets comfortably beating the Suns in Game 1. They talk about what adjustments Phoenix can make, Jamal Murray’s return to his peak form before his injury, and much more (2:16). Then they ask one burning question about the other remaining series (23:57). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, Plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier. joining me wearing their most dapper shirtless vests. It's Rob Mahoney. Big Waz. What's up, gentlemen?

I don't think I have that in my closet, actually, but I'm thinking about investing. I feel like we could pull it off, Waus. I definitely got a brown Carhart vest in the closet. I have never even considered going topless or shirtless underneath, but, you know, gives you something to think about. I'll be honest. I consider doing this podcast in just shirtless vest. big old sunglasses, but I didn't think that would go to over well on our YouTube page. Or maybe it would go over very well.

We would only allow it if you put a clown nose on because that's what Dylan Brooks has done to himself. He's gone from heel villain to just a clown show. It's unfortunate. You hate to see it. But that's life in the NBA when you were an unproven young bunch of pups and you get worked over by the king. It's true, but they can't hurt us anymore.

Really, it was AD. Whatever. We're done with the Grizzlies, at least for a couple weeks until they do something else that we have to do an emergency podcast for. Today, on our docket, we have one burning question for every series going. That's most of the second round series plus Kings and Warriors game seven on Sunday. That's going to be a good one. But we are coming to you live after game one. of Nuggets Sun.

The Nuggets absolutely trunch the suns in this one. Was, I feel like you're chomping at the bit here. So I almost want to give you the floor. If you could just keep it under 20 minutes, we'd be appreciative. But please, go ahead. It's not every day you get to look like a genius. But I will say, at the game one of this series, the wise skepticism of Phoenix and optimism from the first day of this.

season of the Denver Nuggets. I'm looking pretty prescient here. Because just the idea of these teams are sort of coming to fruition in a way that I felt was kind of predictable, right? I think the Nuggets, the thing about what they did today is like they just get into their stuff. Like they have stuff. That's the difference between them in Phoenix.

That high pick and roll action with Yokic and Murray are just, is just so potent. And they can get so many things, whether it be open, three, three, pointers, post-actions, just great looks from mid-range, great looks from long-range for Murray specifically. Like, they have a go-to action that they can get all kinds of stuff that Phoenix has trouble guarding with Phoenix just as great individual guys who can be, have superlative performances, but, you know, it's not as reliable as the Yokic and Murray mine mel. And I think we saw that today.

And then I think what Phoenix's main problem is going to be going forward. We can talk about the specifics of today's game, but they are just getting bludgeoned on the boards today. Denver just looks massive. They look sturdier, bigger, wider, taller, stronger. They got killed on the boards. And, of course, they were able to get a bunch of three-point shots up. And Yolkins, again, when he's getting rolling, his shots are at the rim. It's not fadeaways from 17 feet away

with defenders draped all over you. They get easier looks. They can generate them more consistently. And I don't think Phoenix has any answers to stop these guys. I will say one thing. All of this is true. I co-sign everything you just said was. Denver is a very hard team to adjust to,

coming into a game one, for exactly the reasons you outlined, right? It's not just even just the Murray-yokch pick and roll. a pick and roll going into a motion offense effectively, right? They're not quite one. They are both. That's a tough thing to just like roll in and learn how to guard on the fly. So I would not be surprised if Phoenix figures some things out defensively over the course

of this series. I wouldn't be surprised if some of Denver's role players don't hit threes at quite this rate over the course of this series. Yeah. But they're going to be hell to guard in every game regardless. And are the suns up to that while, as you're saying, trading a lot of tough twos for a lot of threes. That's, I think, the big question coming out of this one is just there seems to be a math problem at work here where a lot of the sons, what they're going to get is just tough,

long twos, and it's not going to stand up against a team that's hitting practically all over their threes and grabbing offensive rebounds like a Hoover, you know what I mean? And so, I don't know, was, what do you think happens here? Because on the one hand, you could say maybe the Nuggets offense slows down, obviously one of the best offenses in the NBA, but they can't hit this clip for an entire series. On the other hand, I don't know what the sun's turn to if it's not tough twos from Booker and KD, because that's really how they won their first round series against the Clippers.

Yeah, I don't really know either. There was one, there was, first of all, KD took four threes in this game. No, excuse me, he took three threes and Devin Booker took one. Those of Phoenix's two best shooters by far who combined for four three-point attempts. That's not going to cut it. I think the way that they can sort of mitigate this is I think, quite frankly, KDN and Booker got to be more comfortable taking pull-ups. Pull-up threes off the dribble, both in one-on-one and off of the pick and roll.

But the problem for them also is that their two best shooters are their two best on-ball guys. So when one of those guys is creating, he's being surrounded by a Kogi. and, well, Damien Lee doesn't barely get any freaking run. But you know what I mean? Like the centers that Cleveland trots out there, whether it be Bismack, Beambo or Aiton, like there's no shooting around what they're doing to even free them up.

So Denver was able to load up on these guys every time they tried to come around picking roles. Like they weren't often able to play just in the one-on-one. Help was coming from every single direction. I think Phoenix will be able to clean up the turnover stuff. I think they're going to play better on offense. I just don't think they're going to consistently generate the quality of looks. Because some of these threes that Kenny missed today, wide open, wide open threes that KCP missed.

Like, they're generating incredible looks. Like when Yokic, first of all, his hand is like freaking crazy glue to the basketball on these offensive rebounds. He's warding the guy off with his left and just basically like stick him, grabs it. And he's right underneath the freaking basket. And you compare that to what Chris Paul has to do. He has to get this running start, then roving to this fading away two-pointer. And that's what their offense has to subsist on. You know, I think it's going to be tough to match buckets with this team.

It is going to be tough. I thought Denver's defense did some smart things, too, to kind of facilitate this math problem. we're talking about. Namely, when Yokish is out of the game, or really in any action he's not involved with, they're switching a lot of that stuff. And what that does is it forces Devin Booker or Kevin Durant to have to work into one of those pull-up twos.

They don't have that clearance getting into the lane where they can then spray out to open shooters. There is, you know, they're really making it more of a one-on-one game for Phoenix's offense. And the Sons have the shooters where they can win some of those battles. They can win some of those stretches, some of those quarters, some of those games. games. But I think the bet, which is a smart one, is over a long enough timeline, you're going to trust in Denver's offense to be able to overpower something like that. Yeah. And one of the advantages I think everyone expected was when Yokic actually sat and then

you had centers like the sons do, typically DeAndre Aten, who makes, as we should mention, a maximum contract, in order to brutalize the Jeff Green masquerading as a center in year, what, like 35 for him or whomever, Bruce Brown on a switch. Unfortunately, that did not happen. I'd never want to say that I agree with anything that Robert Sarver ever did, but I have to say I'm coming around to his thinking on not giving DeAndre Aiton a surefire mass contract and forcing him to go out and get it somewhere else. I just don't know what to do there was because there's a clear advantage there. You keep wanting to feed it to the point where late in the game, Mani went to Jack Lindell specifically in order to score against some of those smaller

lineups. But if Aitin's not going to be that guy, if that's not going to be there, like that's one of your three, four players that you're counting on to produce. Yeah, I think, man, the fundamental issue with that, Justin, is that you're now making your offense about getting DeAndre Aiton the ball in the post when you have Devin Booker and KD on your team. There's just a fundamental tension with that. And that, to me, that's the genius of Steph Curry. That's the genius of Yokic, is that they punish teams even when they don't have the ball in their hand.

They don't have to dominate possession to create opportunities for the people around them. That's never been the case for KD. Devin Booker has proven that he has some, you know, off ball juice where he, you know, he'll run around screens and catch and shooting. He can do that. But he's not really necessarily that guy. And so for Manny, I wonder how they just decide, like, you know what? The Chris Paul and Aitin Pick and Roll will be how we try to get our lunch. And we're going to force them to want to switch that.

And I just don't think that's a viable answer. Now, if KD. and Devin Booker are actually the ones making those passes and making those reads and, you know, manipulating the defense's attention on them to get Aiton these looks, then cool. but like I said, I think KD and Booker just going to shoot more and therefore score more. But these are going to be grueling baskets. And then on the other end, Booker's their best option on Murray.

And KD, he had some beautiful defensive plays, defensive rotations where he's just smacking stuff at the rim, getting back on fast breaking, not allowing guys. It was a bunch of times Denver tried to get out on the break. And KD was just back there. And they had to pull it out and get into their. half court stuff. So if you're going to ask them to play,

there was plenty of garbage time in this game and KD played 36 minutes, okay? And so if you're going to ask this guy to play 40. 40 with garbage time. So you're going to ask them to play all of those minutes and do all of that on defense and be expected to create every single opportunity for themselves.

It's a lot to ask, y'all. Well, I think that's why we see the Aidan stuff, right? Like they did dabble with, okay, can we get KD the mismatch and work him in the post? but you only want to go to that option so many times if you can afford to. But I think the larger point is exactly what you said was, which is Yokic, as a byproduct of how he plays,

creates the kind of easy offense that the sons do not have. And one great example of that was Jamal Murray in this game. I mean, he was absolutely feeling it, but he was absolutely feeling it in part because he got lots of rhythm jumpers, lots of good shots that he helped create with that handoff game, with that pick and roll game. But it's amazing what kind of space you get when you're working off of the two-time MVP. And then there was a play

at the very end in the fourth when they basically sealed it. Where Phoenix is fine like, you know what? Fuck this. Murray's been killing us all game and Aiton sort of pushes up and Chris Paul is running straight at him and that's where Murray lasers the pass into Yokic

for an easy layup. It's just like, pick your poison, yeah. Yeah, Murray definitely gets the player of the game and he gave them the finishing kick they needed when the sons were starting to close it close the gap later in the game. But to me, this was just like a credit to the depth that Denver has on this team to the point where I thought Aaron Gordon was masterful. Huge in this one.

Both ends of the floor. And when they went small and it was the Gordon, Jeff Green front court, Gordon was giving them some of the offense that they needed in order to counterbalance whatever sort of advantage that they would have with Aiton going up against Jeff Green. He also shot three for four from three. He was lights out. it seemed like he couldn't miss, look like Michael Porter Jr. out there. And then Brown was also really good. And so that's the difference between a team that has had time to build out the depth around their superstars and to at least go seven deep.

I mean, this is not a deep team. But the fact that they could put seven credible players on the floor is a big difference with the sons who built this team on the fly. And we're saying like, when you don't have the Tory Craig 18 point performance out of nowhere, like where else is that coming from? You're really just grasping at straws. Yeah, especially. of Josh Akoki in this game in part just so they would have some defensive options for guys

like Jamal Murray. And when Jamal torches you anyway, that's kind of illustrative of where the suns are. Like they're trying to plug holes in the dam, but even the hole they're trying to plug is leaking. They can't even quite get that one right at the moment. Things like Aaron Gordon are where I do see some room for growth for Phoenix because yes, he shot three or four from three. Yes, he looked awesome in this game. Not only will he not do that every night, or at least I would guess he won't. I mean, it seemed like Kevin Durant wanted to see if he could. You know, he's playing basically at the free, he's playing at the free throw line daring Aaron Gordon to shoot on some of those shots. And if he's going to make them, that might be a play. You have to tip your hat to

in order to try to contain the rest of what Denver's going on. Because all that motion, all that action, all those cutters, that's hard to reckon with if you have to hug up on every shooter out there. So the more Gordon and KCP and guys like Bruce Brown can justify people having to play up on them, it's going to make a huge difference. Yeah, but Gordon had some beautiful place where he got downhill on guys and was finishing beautifully. I liked his force that he played with on defense. He just wasn't scared to be aggressive, body up on guys. You know, he got a bunch of deflections as well.

He just looked good. And I thought in the first quarter, first half, man, Michael Porter, Jr. Was looking incredible. He made some tough, just straight up shot creation, maker miss league type of stuff. And they're going to need that if they're going to outscore this offensive behemoth that Phoenix has. But again, I just think the ecosystem within which those guys are going to create offense all season consistently, it's just going to be easier for them than it is going to be for Phoenix.

This serves your point, Justin, about the depth that Denver has, just even being able to go 70. My man, Christian Brown was even out there, man. just rip in KD in the open court, Christian Brown was. There's like a six-minute stretch in every one of these games where MPJ is that guy, where he is hitting crazy tough shots, high-value shots, usually with Yokic on the bench when they really need scoring. Man, Phoenix would kill for a guy like that. So what does Phoenix do here?

Because another part of this we should mention is that Denver has this step, but they're all bigger too, which also is adding to this rebound advantage. If Aiton isn't going to be able to at least lock down the boards here, like Denver has a lot of heat sinking missile, strong, athletic guys we're just going to go in there. And if you have all of these mid-range shooters, and that's what you're relying on offensively, they're not going to be able to get in there just because they're spread out,

taking these jumpers. And so I wonder, like, where are the easy opportunities going to come from? It's not from offensive rebounds. It's not going to come from posting up Aiton. Is this another instance, Rob, where it's really live or die by these mid-range pull-ups? I mean, they are going to live and die by that to some extent, but we alluded to it earlier, the turnover margin has to be better. And Denver's a team that will throw the ball around, right?

They can be a little loose with it too. If you can get some of your easy offense that way, or even just like more of Kevin Durant's blocks turn into transition opportunities going the other direction, that can help swing some of these stretches, swing some of these runs. I mean, that could be the difference of 12 to 15 points in a game if you generate enough turnovers. I think the break glass, if they really,

Actually, and again, this is premature. I don't want to make it sound like we're closing the series right now. It's just as it stands, they have to figure some things out. I think the break glass in case of emergency that we didn't see from Doc Rivers in 2020 until very, very late. And only in like the first half of that close-out game is KD at the 5. Just straight up saying, you know what? We know Yokic has the ability.

If he's going to bludgeon all of my bigs anyway. You know, to me, that means like, all right, let's spread him out. Let's make him extremely uncomfortable. And spread him out, Devin Booker, Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and try to go there. I think that is where they're going to have to ultimately go. I don't think they didn't bring it out at any point in this game, even when they went down crazily. They didn't try that. But I think at some point, they got to put five shooters out there with Devin Booker,

with KD and just trust that they can spread it out and find the openings, right? Chris Paul at this point, he's really slow and crickety. He's not the Luca Donches type that's just going to be able to see over everything and make the exact right read every single time. But to me, that's where they're going to ultimately have to go. Yeah, but if they're playing small with Katie at the center, then you're putting all those wings that we said are so problematic on the court. And that's the problem with these teams that aren't.

weren't built for small ball in the playoffs, particularly a team like the Sun. Can I interest you in some Terrence Ross? I forgot you were still on the roster. I don't think you can interest Monty Williams and Terrence Ross at this point. Landry Shammit, I mean, you know, guys that can shoot it. You know, guys that incredibly can't be left alone the way you can with Akogi and Craig. Well, how about this for an adjustment? Maybe just take two steps back and maybe take a three instead of these wildly efficient long twos.

from the start. The long two parade is just like, all right. Like, Devin Booker, one three from Devin Booker, that cannot happen. He is an incredible shooter, right? And he gets his shot off in a diversity of ways. So, like, he's not this one-dimensional dude when it comes to his three-point shot.

He has to be able to put up more than one-three. So Kevin Pelton tweeted this out during the game. No NBA team this season has attempted fewer than five, pointers in a half. Phoenix came close. They were two for five. Man. How does that happen?

I can't believe they shot 51% in this game and got blown out. That's right. They shot better than the nuggets from the floor. 51% from the floor. And like KD's lights out in this game. 29 points. 12 of 19 shooting. Doesn't matter. It was amazing.

That's the thing. Like, Devin Bugar and KD were freaking great today. They did not have bad games by any stretch. they just like Phoenix collectively just could not stop the bleeding. And honestly, that's probably the adjustment. I looked this up before we recorded. So going into tonight, the player who shot the most, who had the most attempts where the defender was in air quotes,

tight by NBA's metric, which is between two to four feet, Durant was the leader at 7.8. He made 44% of those shots. Devin Booker was a close third at 7.2 attempts. he meet 71% of those in the first round. Combined, they hit 55% of their shots when the defender was, in quotes, tight. So well-guarded shots.

So on the one hand, they did make the most difficult shots, and you have to wonder if that's ultimately going to happen again as it did in the first round. Like these guys are just expert shot makers. They're going to have a game where they just take over that way. On the other hand, when it doesn't work on nights like tonight, you could see that the margin for error is so slim, right? Like, they have to be lights out for the most difficult shot in the basketball court.

And, like, I don't know, that's just not a great recipe for success. It's not. But when you play against Denver's defense, there are avenues to create those easy looks, right? And you saw it in flashes in this game, right? When Phoenix was able to drive, really, like, get two feet in the paint with momentum, it looks so different playing against the nuggets than it did against the clippers, right? the clippers were crowding the paint, like, leaning heavily, especially toward Kevin Duran on the strong side. It was just hard to, like, get through the thicket of people.

When the sons were able to get past their guy and actually get going to the rim a little bit, man, it's smooth sailing sometimes. You know, like, they're going to flail about. Like, Aaron Gordon's going to try his best to rotate. You can get buckets. You just have to be able to create that initial advantage. And I think they have some guys who can do that and they have some mechanisms to do that. Like, maybe it's a matter of you bring the screen with your. Yokich even higher up on the floor.

You know, then you're getting downhill momentum going at him. There's a little more room to play with. I think there's a lot of things you can do with that. The old LeBron special. Like, I think there's some positioning moves you can go to here to get the nuggets a little bit out of their comfort zone. We didn't talk a lot about Jamal Murray. I'll just say, incredible, seeing this guy back up to full speed.

And just seeing him play at this level, you could see how everything else kind of clicks in for Denver. You know, Yokish doesn't have to do as much because we, know how much he likes to sit back and just spray the ball around. Michael Porter Jr. is almost like found money when he just hits five threes out of nowhere. Like 34 points, nine assists, five rebounds. Like this was one of the most special players, offensive players in the NBA. And it's great to just see him back.

Just want to note that. Kenny, after the game asked him, he said, is it bubble Murray or healthy Murray? And Murray was like, yeah, bro, I've been trying to tell y'all, once I'm healthy, this is what I do. And to his credit, before he tore the ACL, this man was unstoppable. He really was looking exactly how he did in the bubble before the knee injury happened. So it wasn't just some old bubble flu. It's not like AD who hasn't made a three cents, right? I'm like, this guy, like, legitimately put it on the floor.

He put it, he put Bubble Murray on tape in the season following the bubble to his credit. And he just looked up for the moment, just attacking his areas of the court. Like he loves that little, you know, sideways to the nail shot. He loves that. That is his favorite spot to get to. And then, you know, he's walking into threes. It's just incredible to see. All right.

Let's move along here to some of the other series that are still kind of percolating. I think we have to start with Warriors Kings game seven, one of probably the most anticipated games of the entire season, if not like the past couple seasons. We're going to do one burning question for all of these. I want to start by outing one of our producers, Ben Cruz here, who after last night's Warriors game sent us this slack message, Dremont was wrong overall for what he did at the beginning of the year,

but I sort of get it. So my question to you, Rob, is going into this one, if you're Steve Kerr, are you bringing Dremon back into the starting lineup to mitigate the pool minutes here. Or do you keep everything the way it's been because it's worked in the past and just put pool on the quick leash so that you could just take them out

if he doesn't have it in one of these games? I thought the question was going to be, do I also sort of get it? Don't we all sort of get it? Yes, I think so, yeah. At this point. I mean, obviously I would start Dremont. Like, it was a nice little maneuver to begin with

to like, you know, appease the masses to make a gesture toward his teammates for getting ejected from a playoff game like I'm willing to go this extra mile for the team but Dremont Green's one of the best defensive players in the NBA. You should probably try to have him on the floor as much as you can against the King's best players. Like that seems like a reasonable thing to do.

But ultimately I think what I'm more concerned with with Dremont is can we maximize the amount of time he's on the floor also against Sacramento small ball, which was just like a total terror in game six. So this is kind of the, the push and pull, right? Like, if you keep bringing him off the bench, maybe it's easier to keep Draymond on the floor when you need him most, which is when the kings are really spread out. Yeah, and not only does he need to start because he's either the second or third best player

on this team, like, without a doubt, I think you need him to be aggressive out there, you know, try to get another 20 like he did for the first time since 2019 Christmas or whatever the hell it was. Like, he needs to be aggressive and try to find his shot at the cup. So obviously there's what he does on the defensive end, the Swiss Army nature of who he can guard on Sacramento. Like, Sabonis clearly just wants no parts of Draymond whenever he's guarding him. And Draymond is, you know, he's guarding Fox at times, right? Like, you need that on the floor for 42 minutes tomorrow afternoon.

So, yeah, to me that's a no-brainer playing around with, Jordan Poole and all of that. But I think Cominga needs to get some more looks. I think Gary Payton, Part 2, needs to get more minutes. Like, they need to maximize these other guys, these athletes, these guys that aren't just going to dribble, dribble, dribble, side to side and go nowhere, guard nobody, and make no shots. Can I suggest some moody minutes, potentially?

He's been pretty good. I thought he was really good in last game. I don't know if we're at the point where he should be, like, playing over Jordan Pool because the sample size is like two games or so, but like, I really liked what Moody gave him. I wouldn't mind it at all, honestly. But the key is the hitting shots, right? You need just more players who are actual threats. I think Moody has done a good job projecting himself in that way.

You know, Gary Payton, part two, as you said was, not as much. You know, Draymond, a lot of times, not as much. And I thought the Kings did a really good job, too, of stepping into taking charges on the Warriors like pass and crash kind of place, right? Golden's Day has so many guys who are driving not to score. They want to drive so you come to them so they can dump it off to like Kavana Looney for a dunk or a cut or Wiggins cutting in. You have to like understand that, have that locked in in terms of your scouting

report personnel-wise. Sarkander did a great job defensively in this game overall, but especially in like treating the guys who are not threats as non-threats. I just don't want the series to go any beyond this, any games beyond this because I'm worried about what DeMontas Sabonis will look like if it does. Like he's already starting to look like Danny McBride and Pineapple Express. Like we need to give him the neck cast. The neck braze.

It's the tattered clothing. My guy is just like really, really hurt in here. But he's going to know, Wise, what do you think from this game? Like, are you expecting the warriors to pull through just based on veteran know-how? I just can't. I can't imagine that they're going to let this thing end to Sacramento

know, lighting the damn beam on them and ending probably this version of the team, right? I just, I just can't imagine that's going to happen. And so, you know, knowing that they got the Lakers in the next round and how they're going to be really up if they're able to prevail for that series, I can't imagine the Warriors don't do this. I see Steph, he's going to try to get 45. he's not going to screw around. He's literally going to try to score everything.

And Draymond's going to be locked in on defense. I just can't imagine they lose to this group. Even if they got their asses kicked at home. They really did. Like, they got smoked. But, like, I don't know. I can't pick against these guys. A lot of endings are unfathomable until they just show up, you know?

I think where, obviously, yeah, you have the championship. of experience. You have a lot of things going in the Warriors' favor. Another thing is, like, Kagan Murray has had an incredible resurgence over the course of the series, but a game seven is a different thing, right? Like, these are crazy high stakes against a very qualified opponent. He gave them amazing and huge minutes in game six in ways they really need it. Like, can guys like that sustain in this huge moment? Can guys like Trey Lyle sustain in this huge moment? Can Terrence Davis not foul out in 20 minutes in this huge moment, right? Like these are the kinds of performances that the game is going to swing on.

And they've clearly the Sacramento supporting cast has shown they can handle that in a game six. But now you got to do it again. This is, this is the hell of the playoffs. You have to play your best game over and over and over again just to advance. I for one didn't see Trey Lyle's small ball center coming in this matchup. But here we are. I will say this. The Warriors were 12, including the playoffs, 12 for 32 on the road.

So one for three. pretty much. They already used their one. I got to say the fact that this is in Sacramento doesn't bode well for them. This is a completely different team on the road. And I don't know, man. So you're picking sack?

You're going sack? I'm going to pick sack. I'm picking sack. Wow. Wow. If I had to make a pick, I would say the Warriors, just because they've been here before.

Like, Rob, if you were putting it not insignificant sum of money on this, you would put money on Sacramento. Like, if you had to, Pick one to put the money on. Why would I put an not insignificant amount of money on a game seven between these two teams? None of us are degenerates. I get that.

But like if you had to, like if your actual money was on the line, you would pick Sacramento? I'd pick Sacramento. What if what was on the line, though? You know, like maybe the Warriors are favorite. Like give me those points. What if what was on the line was you having to pod with a shirtless vest on for the next episode. Well, who is, who's doing it opposite me? I'll do it. You'll do it go for it. Let's see if we can get, let's see if we can clear the expense on a shirtless vest first.

And then we'll go from there. Shirtless, shirtless vest. And also we got to find somebody down in the bay to get you some cornrows, Rob. We got to put you, we got to put you in some riffraff cornrows, baby. All right, I'm out now. I'm out. All right. Let's, uh, let's flip to the next game. on tomorrow's docket, Heat Nix. I wanted to be really creative here and make this about BAM and like, what could he do against the now vaunted New York Knickerbocker front corps? Don't be an insufferable hipster, Justin. I know.

So we'll go with can Tibbs slow down playoff Jimmy? Rob, what do you think? No, I don't think he can. But if I can go a little hipster, can we flip the question and say, can Jimmy slow down playoff jail and Brunson? You know, not playoff Tibbs exactly. but to me this is the difference in like Knicks opponents is

no matter what is ailing the heat they have the option on both ends of the floor to throw Jimmy Butler at it and it's a pretty good option right if that's shut down a guard if that's guard a big if that's hit the glass if that score every possession Jimmy has proven to be that kind of player so I think they're I mean they're obviously

going to gum it up the Knicks are the next defense has done a really good job to making it hard to get anywhere off the dribble to get into the paint to actually make plays I don't know man the heat live in the mud. This is what they do. I know what Tibbs is not going to do, leave Jimmy Butler on an island for the entire duration of the damn series. Yeah. You know, vary his coverages, you know, to maybe try to make it a little

bit more difficult for the guy and not just being like, hey, whoever my best defender is, good luck, pat him on the ass. You know what I mean? Like that, I know that's not what Tibbs is about to do. They are going to be shading all types of coverages to him when they're not. I'm not. I don't. outright doubling him and or even tripling him, you know. But Jimmy has shown, you know, throughout his career, he's a willing passer, man. And he's going to find guys and it's going to be on the Kevin Loves and, you know, the gay Vincent's of the world to knock shots down.

Like Max Trues is going to have to knock shots down. I think that's what the Knicks are going to ultimately do. They're going to dare the others, as Shaq calls them, to beat them. I just can't see Tibbs being just cool with Jimmy Butler giving them 40 every game. Yeah. Yeah. I do think we're at the point where playoff Jimmy, no matter how well he performs and how unsustainable it might seem, like I'm not going to bet against that. I don't want him to like just wake me up in the middle of the night and just start yelling at me.

I would never like try to cross him. I think the problem is is the wildly unsustainable shooting for the heat going to carry over because they pretty much set records in that regard. I don't think they're going to shoot 50% from three? Well, here's the question, though, and I'm curious what you guys think. Like, yes, it's unsustainable in, like, in contrast to what they did in the regular season. But I look around, and it's like,

these aren't bad shooters. Max Struis, like, didn't perform well shooting-wise from three-point land during the season. Really good shooter. Duncan Robinson isn't going to help you defensively, but he's a lights-out shooter no matter what. Like, Kevin Love is a really good shooter, yeah. So I almost wonder if, like,

whatever injuries they've had in roster adjustments they've made, has almost like leant into an identity that could be better than we think it is. Well, it's one that's always like pretty playoff effective, right? Like you are leaning on Duncan Robinson to hit shots and Max Truest hit shots and gave Vincent hit shots. Those things are givens. But the flip side of that is you're making Mitchell Robinson come out and defend a dribble handoff to a live shooter, right?

Like a shooter who is ready to fire. That's very different than what the Knicks just encountered in Cleveland, right? A totally different dynamic, right? It's not all going to be pick and roll basketball. It's kind of similar in some ways to what Denver can throw at you in terms of just like the offball movement, in terms of the mechanisms of what they run. There will be pick and roll stuff,

but there's going to be plenty of off ball action that all of a sudden the Knicks are now going to have to track that's going to pull them away from the rim. It's going to make them not as effective on the class. It's really going to hit the Knicks where they live in a lot of ways. And we're going to see how they adjust to that. And, you know, I'm somebody who has the confidence that Jalen Brunson is not going to allow Kevin Love

to guard him in crunch time, right? Like, when it comes to the most high leverage possessions of the game, he's going to put Kevin Love and pick and roll coverage. And whatever Kevin Love does, he's going to punish him for it. I have the confidence that he's going to do that, unlike the Milwaukee Bucks last round, right? Jalen Brunson might be the only person on the Knicks who I have the confidence to do it. I think RJ had some moments where he looked good getting downhill. I wonder if he's going to have those instincts

against the Duncan Robinson's and Kevin Loves of the world because he's going to have to. But, you know, that's where I think this stuff is going to be one. Can they exploit the people that Miami counts on for spacing on the other end of the floor? And that's where I think the Julius Randall injury comes in big time here.

Because if he was healthy, he would be able to punish and muscle some of these guys on switches. I don't know. they're not going to have that option. And the Knicks offense tends to get pretty stodgy at times and not having that safety valve. I mean, even against the Cavs toward the end of game four, like things kind of slowed down and whatnot. And so if this is going to be a bare knuckle boxing fight and it's going to be like Josh Hart scrapping for rebounds, Mitchell Robeson, et cetera, it's just playing into the

heat's MO. And I wonder if like that's the exact opposite type of game you want to get into because the bucks, as we found out last round, tried to play in the mud and like they got dirty to the point where they almost got suffocated in the mud. Is that what they were trying to do? Maybe they didn't get their hands dirty and that was another problem. It's just crazy to see like the inversion of

New York from regular season to playoffs because they were an elite offensive team that didn't always have it together defensively and against the Cavs it really was almost the total opposite at times. I think offensively they still can get to that level. You know, can you get to that level against Miami's defense consistently

is a fair question. But but they do have some pop when Randall is out there, when they have some varied options, when they can triangulate their looks a little bit more effectively. But if it's going to be all Jalen Brunson all the time or all Jalen Brunson with sides of RJ Barrett and whatever you can get from the supportive cast, it is a little more predictable.

It's predictable in a way where Brunson can still be great and still beat you, but it does bog down the offense a little bit and feed kind into the wrestling match that secretly deep down both of these teams kind of won. Yeah, and in the regular season, the Knicks, they couldn't shoot a three for anything. Like, they couldn't put the ball in the ocean from the Titanic. But they were getting out in transition.

They were mauling people on the boards. And it's going to be up to guys like, I keep bringing up Kevin Love, but he's going to play a pivotal role. Like, throughout his career, most of his career, he's been an elite defensive rebounds. Defensive rebound, I think way early in his career, he was like all-time great. It's kind of slipped.

But he's still a pretty good defensive rebound. Bounder, and bam, him and bam, if they're going to be able to keep Mitchell Robinson off the board, you know, that's what the defense is going to be about, finishing those possessions off, not allowing the Knicks to get out in their transition game and forcing them to play in the half court the entire time. I think Cleveland did a decent enough job of not allowing a bunch of runouts and that kind of stuff in transition, but as we mentioned a trillion times, they just could not keep these guys off the offensive glass. And we should mention with Bam, like, he's probably going to be the exact opposite of what Mitchell Robinson face in the first round.

He's going, they're going to probably see the type of shot that Bam is going to want to take. And I think it's going to be a lot on him, not to circle back to the really hips or question. But I do think, like, this is a prime opportunity where your other star and Eric Quotes has to show up offensively. And this guy is, like, pretty spotty at times. He had a great end to game five. But like, I think halfway through that game, I was like, God damn, he's like one for eight. And I was ready kind of to ding him. So which BAM is going to show up is I think is a big question.

Do you guys have a preference in this one? Or do you have a favorite? I'd pick the heat, but I don't feel great about it. Yeah. I also slightly am favoring the heat. But like, this is just figuring out something to do with to neutralize Jimmy Butler and letting these other, like these no-name heat guys beat you, you know, like putting it up to them. And I think if the Knicks can do that,

they'll win. I just think, like Justin said, I'm about done doubting Jimmy Butler. I can't do it anymore. It'll be a nice B-side, though, because we have, you know, Denver Phoenix is very much the kind of series where these teams are trying to figure out how to stop each other. And this feels very much like a series where they're trying to figure out how to score

on each other, right? Like, what can we even get going against New York and Miami the way they're defending right now? Oh, my God. How many old-school Knicks heat references do you think we're going to get on the broadcast over the course of this series. Like 1,000 per minute? Well, the first time Van Gundy calls a Nick game, you know they're going to show him

hugging PJ Brown's ankle. Like, that's happening immediately. Will we get a recreation is the question? Can we get JVG like hugging somebody else's ankle, like spot for spot? Can we get a full recreation treatment? All right. Last one on the board here. I believe this is for game one is on Monday, Sixers Celtics.

The air kind of out of the balloon here because it seems like Joel Embed is pretty, doubtful for this first game and it sounds according to shams that it's more serious than even it seemed to be um could be worse than a grade one lc ls sprain i don't even really know what that is but it sounds bad how to do you sounded like doc rivers now um here's my question was what's more likely that i am named the host and waiting of the bs podcast or james hardin shows up in the series you mean the do you mean the do you dude who thinks he's Dennis freaking Rodman and is visiting Vegas in between games

during the playoffs, that guy? I'm glad you went there because I want your take specifically on this. So you haven't seen the video Hardin apparently made his way to Vegas at some point after the end of the first round series. He was seen playfully or lightly slapping someone who's allegedly one of his friends

outside of, I, casino, whatever it was. I don't know what that sentence even means but was fair or fall james hardin going to vegas in the middle of the NBA playoffs it's foul stupid um i'm sorry it's something you could never imagine step curry doing lebron doing you just could never imagine the winners yonis you just could never imagine people who win consistently and who care about performing in the postseason doing something this stupid this is loser shit this is loser shit. This is loser behavior. This is why James Hardin has never won Didly Squat Dick ever in the playoffs. In fact, all he's ever done is stink

up the joint. Every single season. It's because he's not serious, bro. He's just not a serious person when it comes to this kind of thing. Like, just the, like, why? Why do you, like, why do you need to do this? Why? I get it. You have a day off. You don't. You don't have a game yet. Why are you doing this? What kind of message are you sending to your guys like that you're going to, James is going to be ready to play when we go up against the team that went to the freaking finals last year? It's crazy. It's just crazy to me. Like this is just bad. Like you, like, name a winner. Name, name somebody who is associated with getting it done in the postseason. Kauai when he actually plays. You know, you name, name the player. You just could not

imagine this. Could you imagine Yochich doing this? Like, no, it's not happening. What about Michael Jordan? He went the AC. So he had the decency to go local is what you're saying. Yes, yes. He didn't fly 3,000 miles away, bro.

Stay in your time zone, you know? We're trying to avoid the jet lag. That's what Rob does. Just keep it Keep it a vertical. Like, we know what travel does to people's body. We talk about this all the time. Like, when a team travels, you know, out east, when they're a West Coast team,

like what that travel does to their body. Like, how travel is not conducive to being fresh. And this dude flies across the freaking country to do what. And he's counted upon. He's their second best player. He's their second most important player. They can't win this series. if he's not up to his standard

or at least his regular season standard. So this is just crazy to me, man. I mean, there are players who, when they're in this moment, right, your star player is hurt. He may or may not play in some of these games. There are players who are like, okay, I'm redoubling my efforts.

I'm putting in extra time. I'm getting extra sleep. I'm getting extra treatment. And then there's the James Hardin we saw. In last year's playoffs, for example, Joe, Embed is not really 100%. can't really play that well, James Hardin just is like not attacking,

not offensively inclined in the way that they needed him to be. Not the star that you would expect someone like James Harden to be in that particular moment. And that's kind of the result of some of this mentality stuff. It's the result of some of these kinds of trips, but also just like who James Hardin is and has been, right? It's not just a trip to Vegas.

It's, this is a much longer track record that there are not enough casinos and strip clubs in the world to explain. Yeah. I really don't want to be in the position. of policing an adult's free time. Like, I have a very liberal approach to all this. Even with, like, some of the people that we work with, I always tell our writers on staff,

like, you could be doing blow off a stripper, but as long as you file on deadlines, so I don't have to wait for your ass. It does not matter. Yeah. It does not matter. Something that Rob has never really executed, but, you know, we'll get there. This is a real shot fired.

Yours truly. This is tough. But as we're saying, like, Hardin just isn't doing... He doesn't have a history of killing people in the playoffs, Justin. He doesn't have Rob's history of killing people in print. He definitely doesn't. It's true.

Damn. Put that on a card. Let's go. Nine for 32 on... Excuse me, nine for 34 on two-pointers. Like, whatever you're doing isn't going to help this. And you don't have the just... You don't get the benefit of the doubt. Even Dennis Rodman, right?

Like what he was doing was important, but it wasn't Mike and Scotty. Right? Like he was a role player. He was a superstar role player, a superstar in his role anyway, but he was a role player. This dude is foundational to what they're trying to do offensively. And their best player, like you mentioned, is far from 100%. And he knows this. And Tyrese Maxie.

hasn't done well historically against the Celtics over the past three games against Boston, six points a game. So it's looking pretty bleak, which is really disappointing. This should be the most exciting series of the entire playoffs, maybe. You think with Celtics fans,

like Zay saw the news that Hardin was in Vegas dicking around, that they were like, oh, man, I can't believe he's, like, having fun on his days off. That's going to mean trouble for us. No. They see that and they're like, of course he. He's doing that.

He's a bum. We're going to steamroll these guys. And yeah, that's how I see it, man. It's not looking great. Even with Boston kind of shaky at times in the first round series against the Hawks, like you have to think if Embed is out two plus games, which is kind of what Doc Rivers seems to be intimating. My greatest hope at this point is that this is gamesmanship.

And Joel is rolling out there game one. And they're just like, you know, he's jumping out of a wheelchair into the starting lineup. is my great hope but I don't know how realistic that is. Let me tell you guys something. James Hardin this would have been I'm pretty sure it was the lockout seat

not the lockout the 2020 before COVID the Rockets had a quirk in their schedule where they ended up having four or five days off this fool floated a Bahamas to party with rappers and he went

by the time he came back he had this insane slump where he shot like 35% over the course of like 11 games afterwards. This is the same dude. And now he's doing it in the playoffs. Brough. Can I ask kind of a, I guess a logistical question here is what you're getting in Las Vegas all that different than what you can get from your local haunts? Like I guess Hardin hasn't been in Philly long enough to maybe pick out

some of like his best spots, you know, but like, you don't think he knows the spots? Not to the point of Vegas, maybe. Trust me. He's been, he knows the spots. And I love Philly, but no, you can't scratch the itch, so to speak, in that way in Philadelphia, the way that you can in Vegas. Okay, that's my question. It's just different.

Okay. Should we get to the specifics of how it's different? No. I mean, for instance, look, for instance. the spots in Philadelphia close at 2 a.m. They don't close in Vegas. Okay? Like, it's a difference in kind, bro.

Like, these are not the same kinds of partying, right? Like, you leave whatever club you want to go to. You go to the strip club and you stay there until 10 in the morning if you want. Okay? Like, this is different. Why am I getting called into this? What is that? No, you can't.

No, the partying in. Philly is not the same as Vegas. It's not. Okay. Okay. So if I were to present to you, if I were to give you an over-under, James Hardens' field goal percentage

in this series against the Celtics. Last series against the Nets, he shot 34% from the field. Let's use that as the baseline. Over under, 34% from the field for James Harden against Boston. I'm going to go over and say that this trip actually, like, powers his battery, you know?

This is like when... This is actually... what he needs in order to perform at his best. And you know, so it's like when Braun is first year back in Cleveland with the Miami. And he just basically took some PTO, came back and was right, ended up going to the final.

So this is what that is for James Hardin, you're saying. Yeah, exactly. Fair enough. I can't wait to see it. Like, look, for as much as we bag on James Hardin, I love seeing him in these moments to say, like, is this the time, right? Is this the one where he finally breaks?

through. I love giving people infinite chances at these things to see if they can turn a new leaf. How is he going to do this against the best defensive team in the league? Well, they're not the best of the team in the league, but they're pretty, they're very good defense. I think he's going to have a sense full and have a lot of trouble.

Definitely the best defensive team left. I mean, that might be true. What's strange time? I mean, I guess the one thing working in the Sixers' favor is the Celtics didn't look particularly solid against the Hawks, and they are prone maybe to be a little shaky at times.

There was a little too much, save us Jalen Brown in the first round. They looked like they were sleepwalking against the Hawks. They looked pretty disinterested. I saw them turn the freaking gears on these fools with four minutes to go where it's like, okay. Like, it was like, oh, wow, Jalen Brown is flying in the air and just pinning beat stuff on the backboard. Where was this two quarters ago? He's at a Mario Cloud, yeah. I don't know.

Is there anything else we need to talk about this? series. I mean, if Joel isn't healthy, it's not going to be that interesting. I don't think. So I'm, I'm okay just kind of chalking it up. Yeah, let's just hope they're playing possum. Doc is, because let's face it, Doc, it wouldn't be the first time he misled the media. Okay. So. True. That's why he's not a doctor. No malpractice. It's coming, you know? All right. Let's, let's wrap it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz for also allowing me to out him for his just wild slacking. We'll be back on Wednesday.

Listen, three days until the next podcast. So if anyone wants to go to Vegas, feel free. Open door policy. Okay. We'll see you Wednesday. All right. Yeah. We'll see you next time.