The Ringer NBA Show - Deron Williams on Jerry Sloan, Getting Traded to the Nets, Team USA, and Much More | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

Three-time NBA All-Star and two-time Olympic gold medalist Deron Williams joins Logan and Raja to discuss getting traded midseason from the Jazz to the Nets (0:30), the recipe for his famous Halloween party punch (8:20), his complicated relationship with former Utah Jazz head coach Jerry Sloan (19:00), the first time he met Jay-Z (35:45), which of the two gold medal USA teams he played on would win in a face-off (42:15), and much more.  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Deron Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The NBA season is heating up, and Kevin O'Connor and Chris Vernon have got you covered on the mismatch. They discuss all the news, the trends, and transactions happening around the league. They also offer their on-court analysis and occasionally get into heated debates. Check out the mismatch on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's Bobin? Ruins here. Logan Murdoch, Roger, we have a special guest today that you told me you might have a little funk with, a little beef, little something you want to get off your chest, man. Oh, no. What's up?

So, Willie and I are straight. We go back a long way. Hey, Will, do you remember when we were in Utah, right, you got traded? Do you remember that morning when you got traded where you were and what was happening? I'll never forget it. Do you remember? Yeah, we was in Dallas. Yeah.

I'm going to play the mad where I was getting taped on a training table in Briggs' room. In Briggs' room, yes. And we were watching Sports Center. That's right, correct. And you was next to me, I think, at the other table. and it popped up on the screen that I've been traded to the next. Dog. Okay, I'm glad you remember it like that?

And everybody was like, you know this? I'm like, uh, no, no, nothing about this. Let me call my Asia real quick. That's exactly how I remember it, though. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't, like, romanticizing the story or anything. What does that like, man? I know Rogers always has told the story about what it's like on his vantage point, but what's that like when you getting taped about to give

ready for a game and you see on the TV, yo, I'm going to, my life's about to change. I'm about to go to Brooklyn. But not Brooklyn, not Brooklyn, New Jersey, New Jersey. New Jersey, yeah. I mean, a lot of stuff went through my mind because, number one, it was out of nowhere. And then I also not knowing if it was true or not. So, you know, I had to go through all that, finding out it was true. I literally went down to the bus, got on the bus and told everybody, you know, dapped everybody up.

This shoot around? What is this? We were going to shoot around. And then the fact that I had like 30 seats at the game because we're in Dallas and that's home for me. So I had like 30 tickets to the game that night that just went to waste. Did you call the homies? What did you do? I never even really asked who went to the game. I might need to ask.

They just wanted to catch a Mavs game, bro. Yeah. I mean, there's no reason to waste them at that point. And then my wife at the time was eight months pregnant. Eight months pregnant. So it was a lot. There was a lot that went through my head. And over those next couple hours,

just trying to figure everything out and having to just shoot out to Jersey to do the press conference and get rocking out there. So, you know, it was definitely tough, you know, especially going from, you know, a winning team, you know, where we had been in the playoffs and had a lot of success. And then I was going over to a team who, I think when I got there, like 13 wins or something. So, you know, it was difficult.

Yeah, that's tough, man. I had one of those in Phoenix, kind of the same way, except I didn't see it on the ticker. Like, I got a phone call from a friend that was like, hey, I think you're traded. And I was like, what? We were going like two to the game, Will. So I literally, second, first bus is leaving.

I'm out in the hallway telling everybody, hey, man, I see you guys like when you play the Bobcats, I'm out. I was going to say this is why Draymond went on that rant the other day. Yep. Because it's like, damn, just somebody could tell you. What would you? All right, before you ask that question, Darren, what would you feel like is a better way to say someone got?

What is the perfect way to get traded? I don't know how to answer that question. I know it's a business, right? And like, so I understand. Like, I wasn't mad. I was, I didn't, there's no animosity. I understand it. But at the same time, it's like, okay, you got the deal done.

And I know it's two sides to everything, right? So, you know, I don't think it probably wasn't Utah that leaked, you know, the trade. it was probably somebody from the Brooklyn side and New Jersey side but at the same time it's like man you got the deal done the first call should be to whoever's getting trained. Yep, yeah.

You know, so that they could give me a little heads up because there's no way that they did the deal and it was already on the ticker and they didn't have enough time to make a phone call to me or my agent or shit. Somebody on the team that's coach somebody. You know, I don't even know I'm just going to tell the story.

This isn't even a question. I found it fascinating because, Will, you know I worked in the front office with the Cavs for a year, right? So I'm doing my kind of due diligence into, like, the system and how they rank players. And in each player's, like under each player's name, under Logan Murdoch, there's a file of Intel, they call it, where, you know, people would have talked to someone in the organization and know Logan and gotten some stories, some anecdotes. And they just punched that shit in, like, and they kind of go off of that when it's time to trade for you. So I always say this to say that my situation was real similar. wife had just given birth. And I like got traded and had to be in a new place in 24 hours.

Like that's really tough. We're in L.A. Got to go to Phoenix. Pack your shit. Tell your wife by. And then be in Charlotte. So I was not happy when I got to Charlotte. Like I was, I wasn't.

Like I wound up being happy. But like I'm like my whole life was turned upside now. I found in my intel file a, a, an account of like the first person that met me in Charlotte. And he blasted me as being an a hole. like, you know, all of that. And none of that was factored in, like, the fact that my whole world had been turned upside down. And this was sitting in someone's intel file about me as a player.

You know what? I found that really interesting. Like, man, you guys got to do better because you don't know who you're talking to and when they cross my path. How do you find that? How do you find that? Well, Griff was lightweight pissed because, you know, Griff is my guy. But Kobe Altman and Trent Redden and all those guys were supposed to erase my file. So I couldn't read my own as I was getting familiar with the software.

but my file was there and I clicked it. And I mean, there was stuff in there like, you know, he's got a wife and a baby. There's a third child involved. Not sure it's his. Like, wow, reckless shit. You know, and I'm like, man, this is really like lightweight irresponsible. But certainly, you know, you should take into account when someone gets moved like that and their whole world is turned upside down.

That, you know, you give them the benefit of the doubt, at least transition. And was the transition hard for you at all when when you got to, New Jersey and your family wasn't with you anymore. You're dolo and you're trying to process what happened to you. 100%, man. That first, that first night when I got there, I was standing like the W Hotel in Hoboken. And, you know, the Ws ain't the most warming and biting hotel. It's like cold and just like, I'm just like miserable. I'm like, damn. Like this is, this, just really had like, almost like that, is this real moment? Man, it was a lonely, it was a lonely ass feeling and then they put me in this because i was you know i only had a couple months we

this february we were going home and there's no playoff so you know i stayed in this like uh corporate housing type thing it was literally my my my my i looked out the window and it was a cemetery and then i didn't have you know my wife couldn't travel at the time because she was about she was about the pop so i had to wait um she gave birth the ninth of of march to our son and then I had to wait like another, you know, month before she traveled. So I didn't see them for, you know, two months, which is the longest I've ever went, you know, without seeing them. And I'm literally losing on top of that, you know.

And I liked all the team, all my teammates and everybody was, you know, more than accommodating to me. But it's still a lonely-ass feeling not having your family around you for the first time after you get traded unexpectedly, finding out on the TV, you know, all the things that that I just went through. So, you know, it was definitely a tough experience for sure. Wow. That's crazy, man. The only thing is it only happened to me one time, at least.

You know, I know guys who got traded six, seven times. Right. So. Yeah. I do want to get to your Brooklyn Day slash New Jersey Days in a bit. But I do want to first want to get to your Utah day. What's up? Go ahead.

First ask him about his legendary like Halloween parties, bro. Oh, hey, hey, okay. Hold on. Hold on. First ask him about those. One second. Roger, Roger. Let me get this right. Let me get this right. So, Darren, you know, I hear about these Halloween parties you should throw in Salt Lake. Were they, were they legendary? What was going on

there? What happened? No, we had some, we had some good party. I love Halloween, man. There's something about Halloween, you know, getting to dress up and, you know, it's a good way to get everybody together, have fun. And so, yeah, I had some, I had some great parties, man. I had some great parties and I had this punch called Big Boy Punch. What was that consumed? What was that mixture of? What was that of? So it was a concoction of it was for every bottle of gray goose,

you put a bottle of Moet in there. Cranberry, I haven't made it in so long because it's not, that was when I was like 22, 23, 24. Like, I'm not even thinking about taking those shit like this now. It's like the fact that I even drank it hurts my head and stomach right now. then it was sugar-free red bull cranberry juice and pineapple juice and so i would put it in like a big ass cooler like a five 10-gallon cooler and just mix it so it was you know several bottles of each alcohol and uh man there's a lot of people that that didn't make it home that slept on my

couch that threw up that missed flight that missed flights there was a lot of But I always made sure that we had a day off the next day because there was no practicing after that. Yeah. Roger, what was your first experience with the big boy juice? Oh, my, so I remember, like, say it was the highlight of like the early part of that year, though. We got all decked out.

Like, we were dressed as like a ghost couple. And we went, it was my first one. I had just come back to Utah, man. And we, it was like you had the golf simulator in the garage at the time, right? Like, you had just got that kind of hooked up. So it was, it was a night, sir. I'll just put it like that. The big boy punch would have you.

forgetting parts of the night before that, but it was a good time, bro. Like, Willie and them used to do it right for the Halloween party. You know, I think I'm tipsy right now just thinking about it, just even thinking about the concoction that's going on right now. I think I need to have. I will never drink. I will never consume Big Boy Pash ever again in my life. I can guarantee you that.

No matter how many Halloween parties I throw. Right. You know, I can be a glass of cab or a peanut. on the war, something like, maybe something like that. Tequila. You all are wild, bro.

What it, um, so your time in Utah, how, how was that? Because I know my, my experience with, with you,

I mean, watching you play, it was always DeWil versus CP. It was always D. Will versus CP. You never knew, um,

you know, who was one A, one B. Like, I feel like every time I watched either one of y'all play at that night, y'all were the best point guard in the league. Um, what was that like for you?

Was there, was that just something that we, that we saw that was like you guys are two best in the league? Or was that something that you saw as like a friendly competition? Like, yo, man, I'm looking at what CPs doing. I'm looking at what I'm doing versus what he's doing. How was that for you while you were in Utah? I mean, people say that, but Steve Nash was still winning MVP's when we were in the conversation.

So, I mean, there was, man, point guard position was very strong when I was playing. You know, you had Gilbert Arenas, you had AI, you had Chauncey Billups. I mean, I mean, the list goes on. But, you know, definitely I enjoy playing against CP because we came out together. We were, you know, I was the third pick. He was the fourth pick. And so there was always that, you know, there was always going to be that narrative. And we were friends at the time as well.

So like when I came to New Orleans, you know, we would go eat dinner. We would hang out, go to the casino for a little bit, you know, play cars, whatever. Same thing. When he would come to Utah, you know, you come over, we had dinner. So it was always a friendly. robbery and definitely, I definitely always got up for that game, you know, because there was always that competition, you know, dating back to college. Yeah. I will. Um, point guard position, the way it's played now versus the way you guys were taught to play it. Now, the names you just kind of talked

about, like yourself, you know, young CP, even Gilbert Nash, you could all score the ball. But it was almost like there was like a ceiling on what was acceptable in terms of like shot attempts. You know what I mean? So like once you started getting to that number, people were like, yo, he's wilding. Like, you see the way the position's played now, right? Like, I don't know, just draw a comparison. Like, do you, do you like it

better now? Do you wish, like, maybe y'all had come up in more of a freedom of offensive expression time for point guards? Like, are you more of a traditional dude? Like, I don't know what I'm asking, but it's way different than when you guys play. Yeah, it's different, man. I mean,

you know, you don't. you play for Coach Sloan, you are weak, and you play for Phoenix, right? So you were playing like, Phoenix was a more freestyle offense at the time, you know, still not what it is today,

but it was more of, get shots up quicker where I played for Coach Sloan, who we didn't want to shot until there was at least 11 seconds or less on the clock. Right. So, you know, you didn't have that freedom.

And yeah, like I was more of a traditional point guard, past first point guard. I could score, but I would rather, you know, I'd rather get 20 assists and scored 20 points any day of the week.

And so, you know, like you said, when I started, I felt like I was, you know, getting up there 15, 16, 17, 18 shots. That's when I'm like, okay, maybe I need to, you know, pass a couple times because this is just looking like I'm a two guard instead of a point guard. Right. And now you look at, you look at the game and it's like, man, point guards is like just how many shots can I, can I get the most, I need to get the most shots up I can't.

And, you know, there's definitely a lot of freedom out there. and I feel like I would have thrived in that in that style of play in my in my prime for sure yeah I mean because they're they're running like if I got a guard like you now in today's MBA right like they can do all that you can do and your ability to like post like because you are you are a big guard dog like they're actually running offense not for the

complimentary players but for you yeah you know what I'm saying like analytically like let let him eat let him hook. I'm just always interested. Not knocking, like, today's players are phenomenal, but like what you have enjoyed, like, that type of narrative around point cards when you played to kind of let you get loose, you know? Yeah, it's hard to say it because, you know, growing up, like, that wasn't me, right? I was kind of like my mom instilled passing in me, still, you know, playing unselfishly.

So growing up, that wasn't me. Now, had I grown up in a different era where, you know, that's how I played, it might have been different. And like I said, I feel like I could have adapted at the time. You know, I think all it does is, I mean, it builds your confidence, you know, to know you can go out there and shoot pretty much whenever you want. And it's a good shot. Right. No matter what it, no matter if it's from the logo, step back in transition, you know,

those shots when I was playing, like all these shots that people were taking are bad. They were bad. They were horrible shots when we were playing. Sure. Horrible. Like, horrible. Like, you might get subbed out for taking some of these shots. Not might.

You were getting subbed out for. taking the shots. If you were playing for Jerry, you were coming out. You were coming right out. Yes. Like, yeah. Wow. For sure.

I mean, did you watch other team like the Phoenix Suns and be like, damn, man? Like, I wish I could do that. I wish I could have a bit more about, at least. I had a lot of freedom, so I can't really complain. You know, do I have James Hart? Did I have James Harden freedom? No. Did I have Step Perry freedom?

No. I also couldn't shoot like Steph. So there's a reason. There's a reason these dudes have a lot of freedom, man. they put the ball in the basket efficiently. You know, you can knock them, you can say whatever you want. You don't like their style of play.

But, I mean, they're putting the ball in the basket. That's for sure. Yeah. How good was Andre Kirlinko? Very good. Right? Very good. It could have been so much better if he just developed,

if he could just shoot. If he could have shot the basketball, like even like just like a little bit better, just to where people had to be up on them. Right. Right. where they couldn't just like back up off of him. And he had games where he would hit, you know, three, threes, four threes.

But it wasn't, you weren't worried about it, right? You weren't. Right. Like, you're like, oh, we'll live with that. Man, but I've never been around a player that could do everything he could do at his height. And defensively, I mean, he was special. He was special for sure. You will.

Yeah. I think you know what my question is going to be now that we brought up Carolinko. I don't. I remember. I remember. I remember you were on the floor during the dunk. Was that wild on your, on your end? I remember because I was in the bay when that happened,

and I remember watching that at the crib, and that was, that was crazy on our end. What was that like? Because y'all won the series. You already all beat the Warriors already. But what was that moment like from the opposite side to be on the floor when that happens? You know, I still feel bad about it to this day.

The bearer is dunk on Carolina. You know, we just had to read the, live it last week because Steph did the little dunk, you know, in the warm-ups and, like, raised his shirt up. And so then, and then Barron posted it. And I'm like, man, I liked it. And then I commented, I'm like, man, I don't think I should be

liking this shit. Because it's my fault, right? All right. Yeah, just let's talk. Put us through the play from your vantage point. What happened? Shit, my feet got stuck. You didn't see. I tried to grab him like three times. You know, it's just bad defense. That's all the way. I mean, he just blew

by me, bad defense, AK. The one thing about AK is he's going to try to block, he's going to jump with anybody. He has no shame. He don't care about getting dunked on. And that's the thing, that's why I don't really feel bad

because he doesn't give a shit. There's one thing, AK doesn't, he does not get, he slept just, just as good that night as he would any other night. That's facts.

How loud was it that night? Was it loud? Was it, how was it crazy just being? Honestly, that's one of the craziest environments I've ever played in. My mom, she almost gotten like,

Every time she was in the arena, she almost, she got into it people, people were, man, people, people, people, people being nasty to her, her, the whole, my whole family section. Wow. Yeah, the bay was, the bay was jumping, which I loved. Oh, yeah. So, hey, Salt Lake's no punk, though, in terms of, like, no, no, no. Talk about, talk about, um, but do you remember when, like, it was the year I had come back, we were, we were, we were supposed to be really good. Like, there were, you know, Al Jefferson came in, you were there, Paul was there, you still had Matt. A, K, memo. Like, there were some real pieces on that team. We couldn't get it together, really, like, in practice. You remember we stayed after practice one day to, like, iron out the kinks of that?

It was my first. It was my first. I looked through the window, like, over to my right. And you remember, like, there was a stairwell there. And I saw Jerry, like, hovering in that stairwell, right? And he was pacing. And I don't know if you remember it, but I'll always remember it. I go out and I'm like, I'm like, coach, what's going on, man?

And he's, you know, he's like seething. And I'm like, yo, hey, Jerry, this is just us trying to make sure that we are right for you. Like, we're here to. And so I know that the relationship was complicated and all that. I ain't trying to dive into it. But can you talk to me about, like, what Salt Lake meant for you during that run and what Jerry meant for you? Like, because he was a tough, hard-nosed dude. You were young.

Things happened. But what did he mean overall, dog, in the grand scheme of things? Man, he meant a lot. I mean, so to talk about that situation, you know, I remember. I remember it because he ended up, we ended up getting into it that day as well. And I think that was kind of the start of when things started to go kind of bad because, you know, like you said, we had a, we had a, we had a, we had a lot of guys coming, and new guys coming in.

And we were struggling in that preseason and pick and roll, like really badly. Like, and so I wanted to get it right, right? I didn't want to struggle with it. And we needed to clear some things up. And I had talked to him about it. And he didn't seem to, you know, feel like it was that big of an issue. And so that's when I was like, well, let's just on our own, let's just talk about it, right? And I think, you know, with the way Jerry is and him being so old school, you know, he sees that as like me trying to take over, me trying to coach or, you know, whatnot.

And that wasn't the case, you know. And after we did that and walked through everything, we talked about it, I'm like, okay, we're good. And then I go in, he's like, can I talk to you? and then proceeded to kind of let me know how he felt about the situation. And I was just like, you know, we got into a little heated discussion and end up going up to Kevin's office and talking about it. But, you know, I just know that that's just him. You know, he just comes from a different era that I was used to, you know. Right.

Where I consider and what, like, you know, I feel like the coaches before that I played in college, they would consider that leadership, you know, take an initiative, he sees as more disrespect, right? And it's something that I think I didn't really understand or couldn't understand at the time because I was just so young, right? So young and like kind of immature. And so, you know, definitely, definitely things I wish I would have handled a little differently if I could go back now, but obviously I can't. But as far as what he meant to me, may he meant a lot, man.

I think, you know, there was a lot of lessons that I learned from him that I didn't understand. And I actually talked to Deshaun Stevenson when I got the jersey about it because, you know, he went through a lot of the same things with Jerry as well, where he just was so young, you know, he wasn't in a place to really understand why Jerry did some of the stuff he did, why, you know, he was the way he was. And, you know, he pushed me a lot. You know, he pushed me a lot.

Even my rookie year, I talk about it where, like, I was so pissed that I didn't start because I felt like I was the best point guard in the team by far, right? And even when the two point guards that were in front of me went down, I still didn't start a point guard with Andre Owens, another rookie, and started him over me. Like, and I was just so mad. Like, that's like, so mad about it the whole year. Like, really, I don't think I ever got over it for a while. It took me a while to get over it. Yeah. Wow. But I, like, I know why he did it. Like, he wants to make you earn it. He always wants to see how you're going to react to things, how you're going to respond. So, you know, it was just little lessons that I learned, you know, throughout playing

for him that I didn't really understand at the time. And, you know, he honestly was the best coach I ever played for. You know, he wasn't, he wasn't the best, like, X's and those coach that I ever played for. But as far as just, like, getting people to, to know their role, to do the right thing, to play in the system, to execute, you know, he's, you know, he's, he was by far the best. What was something that you feel like, you know, an older Darren Williams could have handled it? How do you think an older

Darren Williams could have handled that situation? Because you just said that, right? Like, you learned a lot from that situation, but you were also young. If I were to, if you were to go through that at like, I don't know, 30 instead of 20-something, how do you think it would have played out? You know, I don't know. I think I probably could have went to maybe one of the assistants

and told him kind of what we were feeling as a team and maybe he could have had he could have had Jerry's year and then it probably wouldn't it may it might not have been done that day right then, right there, like we wanted, but it could have been something

that happened the next day or the next day and I definitely could have handled the conversation after a little bit better. Okay. But I'm a bit temperamental, you know. It happens. What people, like, see,

but Jerry's thing was like to, to double down on Darren. Like, I was, I was there before, like, before Darren was drafted. Like, and we were, we weren't very good at the time, right? Because they had just lost Carl and they had, you know, to the Lakers and, and stock had retired. And we were a young team. And, you know, Jerry was, Jerry would threaten to fight you, man.

Like, Jerry would, him and Oster Tag would, would, like, square up in the locker world. Like, that's just. What? They squared up the year. No, I wouldn't need. No. That was the year.

It was my second year because he retired that year. There was, like, Greg threw an ice bag across the room. Them two were squared up. We were like, oh, shit. See, that's the whole thing to me is, like, everybody says, like, I made Jerry retire. I'm like, man, what I, the argument we had was so minimal compared to the shit I had seen before. Jerry Sloan was trying to run the fade in the locker room. Man, Jerry was trying to, me.

Jerry tried to fight Jerry Stackhouse. What? I would have paid to see that one, though. Wait, wait, wait, like, seriously. I had to pay the good money to see that. We would have a step. I mean, he challenged him on the court. I mean, I didn't heard, I didn't heard Coach Sloan say a lot of stuff to a lot of refs, other players.

My man's trying to fight Jerry Stackhouse, bro. That's, that's tough. Coach Sloan was a G, man. That's the one thing. He was. Say it again. He was a G. He was.

Hey, this cat said one day in a, in a, in a film session. But first of all, he had hands like, like, like. They were like meat hooks, bro. They were huge and big. And like, so he said, what do he say? I want to remember. He said, you know, I'd fight most of you in here. Like, and I'd win.

And for those of you that I don't think I win, I got an ice pick in the car. And we were like, oh, shit. And y'all believed him too. Right now, I believed that too. But you know what? At the end of the day, like, it was like there was real, there was love for Jerry, though. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you knew that's who he was.

He didn't, it wasn't like he didn't like you. It was, his teams wore that on their sleeves when they played. Like, you know, you came with that tough lunch pail mentality. This is how we're going to do it. You know, we're going to run this four up, four down. You know what's coming and we're, and we're still cramming it down your throat with it. Like, that's the way they play. It's the way we play.

So towards the, so Roger tells me towards his like last night of, um, with Jerry, right, of where, like, you guys get it. You guys get into it. and then he just retires the next day or resigns the next day. He told his side of the throw. How was that for you, D. Will, when he just, can you tell the story from your advantage point of, okay, we have this game and then I think Rogers says you guys go in for a team thing. It's usually like one, two, three team. And then it was like one, two, three, something else.

What was that for, what was that story? What do you say when he said one, two, three, D? What do he say when he said one, two, three that night? Was it one, two, three, good luck? It was good luck. And we were like, what? Wait, so what happened? Wait, what happened?

So what happened is, like, we have these plays that are always run on specific sides of the court, right? And so Al Jefferson, he, like, literally likes one block better than the other. Like, it's not even like a secret. And so I switched one play because I, saw something and I was like, let's just try it. I was like, let's run it the other way. Literally the same play on the opposite side of the floor. I just switched it to the opposite side of the floor. And so we ran the play. Got a bucket. Got a bucket. Yeah, I think we scored and I didn't think nothing of it. And then we come in at halftime and first thing I ought to coach Sloan's mouth is like,

you want to coach this team? And I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, he's like, so he just kind of he was upset about that. And I'm like, no, man, I was like, you got it. I was like, you got the juice. I was like, I was like, I was like, you got it. I was like, I'm just, and so he just kept on. And I'm like, I, like, I didn't know what to say. I was just like, I was just like, I fucked up. My bad. And so he was like, our owner was there. He's like, great, can I talk to you? I was like, I want to be there. So I walked, I walked, I walk with him. And he was like, basically like, I'm done. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I was like, just trade me. I was like, just trade me. That, he didn't.

it had to happen. And we go back out on the court, lose the game to the Bulls, come back in, and he says the one, two, three, good luck. And so you knew that you knew it was done. You knew it was like, you knew it was. I mean, I didn't know. I didn't know he was what it was going to happen in the morning. So there's a wall, um, between our locker room and the training room where you guys went to have that talk, right? Like you guys like went around the corner. So like you can't, it's to some degree inaudible, but you can hear the voices raising. So. So, you can't, it's to some degree inaudible. But you can hear the voice is raising. you know there's whatever.

Like, but none of us knew. We couldn't have known at that time. We went out and played the whole second half. Dee, I don't know if you remember this, but like the second half, you guys didn't really talk. So like, you would tell me, hey, go tell Jerry like this. And I will go over and then Jerry would be, tell Dee Will we're going to run this. And I'd be like, oh, shit, all right.

So we did that. No one knew, Logan. So at the end of the game when he said, good luck. We all literally looked at each other like, did he just say good luck? And I still didn't know. I got to shoot around, not shoot around. We had treatment the next morning. And I got to treatment, like, probably 20, 30 minutes, like, late.

Like, and he had already retired. Like, he had already had a press conference and just kind of shut it down. That's wild, man. How do you play after that? What do you do? Like, how does that, what is a player's mindset after some shit happens like that? Uh, me, it was tough for me because, you know, of course, it was all, you know, I got blamed for everything. So, you know, here goes the most beloved coach that ever coached Utah.

And, you know, I'm the blame. So it was tough. You know, it was definitely tough. I think what it was it like four or five games before all-star break yeah so I mean I only I only had five more games in in Utah than I was and I was gone you said no you could trade me that was like nah he going to resign and then we're going to trade you too that's exactly that's right hey dog I've never you got traded right like we we hear about it same time like we're looking at the ticker like oh and then obviously you got a pack and dip right so I'm sitting in like the

hot tub, you know those old bullet type hot tubs, like the low ones on the floor. So I got my feet and I'm trying to warm them up before a game. And Kevin O'Connor comes through. And, you know, he says something. And he says, he looked at me, you know, and only the way he could. And he goes, sometimes you get what you deserve. And I was like, oh, like, and it was in reference to the trade, dog. And I was like, you know, that will, I mean, I don't really have any beef with, with, with, with, with, with, Like I certainly have no beef with Utah, but that one was eye-opening to me, almost as eye-opening as I tell the story about Robert Sarver telling me why he wouldn't give me an extension, you know?

And I think it all speaks to bigger picture. I'm on a different subject now of kind of what Draymond talks about. Like, there are times in this where you are moved like a piece on a chessboard. Like you are moved and you're not necessarily seen as human in the equation, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think I kind of find out how everything went down. It's kind of like, so, you know, Mello was trying to get up out of Denver, right? Okay.

Yep. And so it was like, it was like New York was offering, the Nicks were offering a package, and the Nets were offering a package. And so, like, I had already kind of hinted to Greg that I was going to, like, leave after my contract was up. Right. And so. Oh, you knew already. You knew you was going.

You knew he was going to do it. No, I mean, I, like, kind of. Okay. Kind of. It was just, it was just, you know. Time hit come. Yeah, like, because I had been around all the best players in the world. I played in the Olympics, right?

And I was trying to recruit everybody. You know, I'm talking to everybody. Nobody's coming to Utah. And I know, like, I'm a really good player at the time. But I know I'm a number one, I'm a point guard. You don't win championships with just a point guard, right? You need pieces. You know, we need other pieces.

And like, all I saw the writing on the wall was nobody is going to come to Utah. Not one person I've ever talked to was interested in coming to Utah. It just was a reality. And so I felt like I had to go somewhere else at the time because that's how the NBA was. It's not like it is now. And so I kind of, you know, hinted at that and come to find out, I guess. Basically, when Mello went to the Knicks, they just offered me for that. same package to whoever wasn't going to get mellow. So if he went to Brooklyn, it was going to

be the next, you know, it was kind of like, kind of like that, I think is how it kind of went down. Wow, that's interesting, man. What was that, so what was that overall that experience in New Jersey slash Brooklyn like, right? Because I remember there was a big deal, you know, you were the free agent at the time. You just still didn't sign with anybody. And, you know, you chose to go back to Brooklyn and wasn't like Dallas on the table too? You had like suitors. You were a real big time free agent. Why did you stay when you had suited? What was the reason that you maybe didn't go to Dallas or you didn't go to

another place that you stayed in Brooklyn for that time? Yeah, so like, you know, I was very comfortable with like the ownership management group in Brooklyn. And, you know, I kind of, they kind of laid everything out for me and told me, you know, what their

kind of goal was and what they were trying to do. And then I went to my meeting with Dallas and, you know, cubes didn't end up coming to the meeting. And that was like a little off-putting and then like talking to him you know donnie who i love you know just in they're just saying like trust us right there's trust us and so like i'm coming from like a place where they're like laying everything out you know kind of telling me what their process is like and then on the flip side is donnie saying trust us and i get why he's saying that now because

the track record right they have this i mean he's got a great track record you know what they've done what he continues to do. And so I think at the time, it was hard for me to see that. And then I think Q's not being there kind of threw me off. Because I actually, I was going to Dallas. Like, I already had put an offer on a house in Dallas. It was contented on me signing. But, like, I was, I was, I was ready to come home.

I was ready to come home and play for Dallas. And then I think after that meeting, I kind of left the meeting and was like, I was like kind of wishy-washy of what I wanted to do. And then I just kind of went with comfort. Like, I was comfortable there. I knew what to expect. I know what's going on and chose there. Man, I got so many questions about I'm going to ask this one first.

All right. I ran into you like when I was on the grind with Cleveland, right? And the bowels of like Barclay, right? Yeah. And I mean, that's a pretty cool ownership group. Well, like you got Jay-Z, you got Beyonce. Like, there's a lot of stuff going on, man. Like, give me a cool, like, Jay-Z Beyonce story.

Like, give me something that, give me something good, man. I don't know. So, you know, it was dope. It was when, so when Jay-Z opened the Barclay Center, seven nights in a row, I went two of the nights. But the first night, I went to open the night. Yeah, I think I went to open and closing. So the first and the last.

But the first night, I went, and then, like, I was just went, and we were enjoying it. We were in, I had a suite. We were in a suite. Watched, watch the whole thing. It was dope. And then somebody came and got me. He was like, hey, Jay wants to holler at you after the show.

So I went down there, went back in his dressing room. His dressing room was like, it was our locker room. But it looked like a, it was like black, like plush carpet everywhere. He was white couch and beautiful white. It looked like a whole different. I was like, wait, this is our locker room? Beyonce was in there on the couch. I think she might have been pregnant at the time.

I don't know. But it was just a cool story. It was my first time meeting her. And, like, you know, I interacted, like, on the court, but never, like, in that situation. So it was pretty dope. After seeing him perform, being back there chilling with him, you know, a dope, dope experience. That is dope, because I'll tell you mine was this, listen, I had it on-court interaction. It was all good, right?

You give the quick, like, yo, what's up? I ran into him in the bowels of the arena that night and, and Beyonce. You know what I said to him? What? Hi, they kept it moving. Bro. Bro. Like, I was, I don't get starstruck like that.

I was like, hey, and just kept it moving, though. I, I had a, I had a terrible experience being both of them at the same time. It was a very bad experience. I remember, because I covered the Warriors when they, when they were like really good, like, 2018, they came to a, to a playoff game, right? I think it was against the Pelicans. So, like, I strategically positioned myself in Oracle to, to, like, where they was going to walk or whatever, right? And so I walked back out to the tunnel.

And they're walking towards me. And Beyonce, bro, gives me the coldest look. Like, I ain't shit. Like, she looked through me, like, through my whole soul. And so, like, I'm like, damn, right? And then I don't know what to do. And I'm like, and I say, yo, what's up? Jay was he was like, yo, it was good.

And walked by. But while Jay is doing that, Beyonce gives me the coldest look like. She saw something like that was just terrible in me, I guess, and just looked at me for like a solid 30 seconds like I was nothing. So that was mine. But anyway, how big was Jay's presence there? How big was his presence with the Brooklyn Nets? You know, he was, I mean, he was at a lot of games.

You know, I think that's kind of where his presence was felt. Like, he wasn't in the locker room. He wasn't around like in any of the meetings or stuff like that. But, you know, on the court, I think he was more, he's more of the face, you know, the face of the ownership group because the Russians, they didn't like to be seen Prokharov, he came in town twice when I was, I never saw him

after I signed, I never saw him again. How did that feel for you? Like, how does it, do you want to? Does you find out about that? They don't, man. They don't plan on nothing we're doing on the court, man. I'm not worried about where the owner is or nothing, you know.

So that didn't bother me, but it's just, it is weird, I think, when the owner only comes in town twice, you know, to see, you know, to see a team, his team play. Yeah. That's a lack of, it speaks to a lack of investment in that. Like, not literally,

but kind of figuratively, right? Like, you're not really, like, you're like, yeah. And, you know, it's like, like, there was a lot,

there was a lot of stuff, I think, with the ownership, and I think they were just trying to figure it out. You know, they didn't really, I don't think they had, they didn't have basketball minds at all.

And I think that's where it kind of, it was tough. Right. When you talk about it, that ownership, there was a clear, I think it was like, misguided will to win, right?

Because as soon as they, as soon as prokroy of all the team, he tried to, he tried to get the big, what, big four, big five together with the trade, with KG and bringing Paul Pearson and then to add with you and Joe Johnson. And it was, it just seemed like, I'm not going to say it was bad. I'm just saying like there was just a real like, it just seemed like an urge to win. And I don't know, it just wound up not working out. But it seemed like they were really aggressive in trying to get pieces early on in that Brooklyn, in the Brooklyn era.

What was that like on your advantage point? I mean, that wasn't early. That was my, that was like my fourth year. Okay. That was my fourth year there, I think, when they did that. Because, I mean, as soon as he took over the team, like even before I got there, you know, his thing was he wanted to win and win right away, right?

And that's, I think, why he went after Mello and then got me. I don't think that the trade was as bad as people, like, say. I just think it was a tough situation for, it was a tough situation because I had already been there four years. I was dealing with some injuries at the time. And so I, and going through some stuff personally, it was the first year my family didn't live with me. They lived back in Utah.

And so it was my first time being away from them for a whole year. So that year was tough on me, battling injuries. Paul got hurt early. KG was, you know, he was battling through stuff the whole year. And then Brooke went down with a, with a fractured foot. And so we started off that season really badly and just couldn't get it going. We had just constant lineup changes and everything.

And it just was just a rough year, you know, throughout. And so I think that's what kind of put a damper on things is because everybody had these expectations of what we could be. And then just a lot of circumstances didn't play out the way we wanted to. But I think if we were, if everybody was healthy and mentally right, you know, we could have been, we could have been really good. Yeah, I thought so too. Y'all played, did y'all play Miami that year in the playoffs, right? Yeah, yeah. I covered that.

I was just getting into the media, man. But I actually thought at the time, like, that was, I thought y'all could knock them off. I thought that was a good look, a good mix of players, especially to compete against who you had to go up against with the heat, you know? Hey, Willie, what was it like playing for the Olympic team, man? Like, I'm getting a chance to go out there and rock. You talked about knowing all those guys and playing with them. What did that mean to you? It's amazing. I mean, it's my biggest accomplishment as an athlete, as a basketball player, was being able to compete in two Olympics, you know, and win two gold medals.

Because it's just something, there's not a lot of this. That's a select few that can say they've even been in the Olympics. And then a very select few that can say they won Olympic gold. So, you know, it's definitely an honor to represent the country and to go out there and, you know, bring gold back to the U.S. How locked in were y'all in 08? Because that was when you guys were coming. You guys, you know, you hadn't won a gold in like, I think, two Olympics. And what was that like to try to, you know, it was the redeem team. What was that like for you guys? Yeah.

No, we were super locked in. I mean, that's, that's a term that we used a lot, you know, was being locked in. And Coach Kay did a great job of preparing us, you know, of getting us ready, you know. But at the same time, we had the group of guys we had, you didn't have to work. really worry about that, you know, with, with LeBron, with Kobe, with D. Wade, with Jay Kid, with the leadership we had. I mean, it wasn't a, I mean,

we had some, we had some tough games that last game against Spain was tough, but I didn't see anybody beating us with how locked in we were and, um, the team we were going to put on the floor. How, how, what was Kobe's influence on that team, on that 08 team? How much did his influence kind of loom? Because I remember there was this one thing where, I saw like it was Grover, uh, his,

his trainer was talking about. he would just go on bike rides through the desert and just like really just work like just do wild stuff just to get like his mentally repaired. How was that, how was his influence and how his work got that kind of went around the locker room during that Olympics? Yeah, I mean, it's contagious. You know, when you see, you know, at the time he was probably him and LeBron are the best players in the world, you know, arguably, you know, it's kind of one of those battles went back and forth at the time. you see this man the work he's putting in the hours he's putting in the gym the extra shots he's getting up you can't help like you're not going to go sit down on the sideline while he's still out here at 30 you know i think he was he might have been 30 at the time you know eight you know see him doing

that and i'm you know i'm 20 23 years old and i got to get up there too you know and so it was great it was great being able to work out with him to learn from him to talk to him to pick his brain about things and then have a chance to compete with him was was there was there a friendly cop between comp between him and LeBron during that time? Was it, was it, was it, was it like,

I'm trying to take this man. Like, Brown's like, I'm trying to take this and COVID's like, nah, bro, relax. Yeah, I think you can, like, it wasn't, like, they were great friends, right?

And they, their interaction was amazing. But it's hard not to see that, that they had like a little, there's a little bit of a, because there's like two alpha dogs being in, you know, in the same room, you know? They want to,

they want to assert their dominance. And LeBron is different. to Cole. LeBron is more playful, a little less serious, but works just as hard, you know. And Cobb is more just about his business. And still let loose with us and still have fun with us. But it's just two different personalities. You know, it was fun to see.

Who wins between 2012 and 2008 if y'all go against each other? Damn. Like prime, everybody's prime. Because you got to think about it. We had like Russ and Katie. I know, but they was tough though, exactly. And they were. And James, all when they were like,

Like James is six man. You know, he was averaging like 16 a game. This ain't James, you know what I'm saying? That 2018 team, 2008 team as assembled and the 2012 team as assembled. Not prime, but as a symbol, as they were as assembled. I think 2008 would probably want a night. Really? Okay, okay.

What's the really about, bro? You're talking about what's the really? What you mean? I think, I think, I think, I'm partial to the 2012 because you have, you have KD. LeBron and. Cove, D. Will. And then you got Russ coming off the bench, bro. You got him being just, all he has to do

is lock in on defense. It's all he had to do that year. I was, you know, and then you had Chris Paul. Don't let him run you off of that, Dee Will. Don't let him run you off of that, bro. I'm just saying, man. Don't let him do. DeWil, a little bit older in 2012, man.

A little bit older. It was nice, bro. We had Dway. We had Bosch. Bosch was going to everybody, bro. Dwight. Dwight, Dwight was protecting that rim. Man, we had, we had Michael

coming off shooting that thing. Mike Miller shooting that thing. You got I'm going to the 2012 team, no? Come on, man. I'm sorry, though. I know you know the game. I know that I got to pick 2012,

man. I got to pick 2012. The 2012 was tough. Yeah. Don't let me talk you up that last. I think 2012 was tough. No, no. I'm still going to,

I'm still going away. There you go. Hold your ground. But if I would say 2012, you probably would argue 2008. No, no, no, no, no, no. no, no, no.

I would have argued 2012. Because 2012, I think 2012 is the best team ever assembled in general. Dee Will has you figured out, dog. It took him like an hour, but he got you figured out, bro. You think it's better than the dream team? I do. What? But also I'm young and 12.

So like, you know, but I do think that. Can I hang up on a podcast? I wish you would because I'm leaving too. That's fine. We weren't nice. But I just, man, I don't know how. I don't know. I don't know how.

I don't know how you can ever, like, just out of respect, I just don't even. know how I could ever say it. You know what's funny, did you? I saw you say for a second. I saw you for a second be a basketball player and was like, yeah, we'll kick their ass. But then you was like, no, I got to do it. I mean, I saw for a second. I'm always going to think that.

But I don't know. Just out of respect. I mean, that team, they were nasty. That's fine. That's fine. That's still big in 2012. That's cool. That's all good.

Hang on me, that might be fine. What's the handicap like right now? I want to know. What, like, what? I ain't been playing, man. Honestly, I'm a two. I'm a two, but I haven't planned. I played in this tournament, the LPGA Diamond Resort's tournament in January, the end of January, and I have not touched the club since I've been back.

Weather's been kind of brutal in Texas. And I hate, I want the grass to be green again. I don't want them sick of this brown dormant shit. I need some green grass. The greens is hard as a rock and fast. I don't want, golf is already hard enough. The wind's blowing. It's cold.

I don't want to do that right now. I feel you. I'll play. I hit them on my, I got a simulator. so I'll hit on there. And I haven't been traveling, so. Right. It's hard to get out.

Who is the best golfer and like best basketball golfer right now? I know you play against Steph. Roger think he good, but I'm not sure. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's probably, I would say, I would say Steph or Ray. Okay. Ray hits it too. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm coming out. I'm close. Okay. Willie can hit it. How's Memo's game, man? I am, I ain't playing. You know what?

Memo can play. Memo can play, right? Play. Memo can play. He got down to like a, he was like a, he said he was a six, but he beat me straight up one day. And I was playing really good at the time. Now, we were on his home course and I never played there. I got the spraying. I got the spraying it. Okay. Okay. But he's solid. He's solid for a footer. Right. Yeah, boy, I listen. I saw Memos. We were out there in Utah somewhere, bro. I grabbed this pitch and wedge for him. Like I really thought it was a, it's a three-hier. It's a driver. It's a driver. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, yeah. He's like, he's like, he's like, yeah. He's like, he's like, he's like, yeah. He's like, he's like, he's like, yeah. He's like, he's like, he's. He's like, he's. He's. He's, he He's like three and a half inches over. That's crazy. That's crazy. Man, let's get to, let's get to Rowan at a week, man.

Let's get to rowing of the week. It's something that we do every week is somebody that won the week, a person, an entity, an organization that won the week. I want to go first, but it's a little, Raja hates when I go first, when it's a deep one.

You go first, Roger, and then we'll go, we'll go with D. And I'll go, and I go mine. What you got, I don't know if it was this week. It could have been late last week, but we haven't done this since then. I'm going with LeBron James. Um, okay.

You know, Zlatan, Ibrahimovych took a little shot at LeBron, right? He came out telling him to stay in his lane. Um, and LeBron just kept it a buck. Like he, you know, like his platform is supposed to do and told that man, under no circumstances, Willie, um, was prepared for it, even through some, some real facts back at him. And I just like the fact that LeBron ain't being pushed off his platform. He stands for what he believes in. Real one.

Mm. He will. Who is your real one of the week? Shit. My real one of the week has been my real one of the week. It's been my real one of a week for a long time now is Stephen Jackson. Stackjack, man. What he's doing, what he's doing for our community, for our people is amazing.

I mean, he's using his platform to his fullest potential, you know, the way he's been giving back. Just his posts are always uplifting. You know, I feel like I always get something when I, when I tune in and listen to him, man. So that's my real one. Well, for sure. I'm going to go my real one. somber one man but i hope he gets well tiger woods man that was tough he had over the weekend and i hope hoping for a speedy recovery from tiger because that's that's tough man so ruined a week tiger woods

and that was a another edition of the ruins podcast i'm logan murrague it's roger bell that's d will you could check us out mondays media mondays and you can also check us out on thursday where we have typically have player guests man and we will see you guys next monday man d will thanks for chopping it up with this bro. Yes, sir. Thanks for having.