The Ringer NBA Show - Did the Raptors' Big Win Over the Warriors Make Them the Best Team in the League Right Now? | Group Chat (Ep. 353)

Episode Date: December 13, 2018

We try to sift through the noise of the Raptors’ blowout win against the Warriors (1:45) and diagnose the state of the Pelicans after Anthony Davis’s big night against the Thunder (13:33). Then, we take a look at two teams whose stocks are up and two whose are down (24:06). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Paolo Uggetti, Haley O’Shaughnessy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you, Microsoft Surface for being a sponsor of the show. Need a device that helps you get stuff done, but it's also perfect when you want to catch up on some fun, like streaming live sports or checking on your fantasy team? Check out the latest member of the Microsoft Surface family, the new Surface Pro 6. Just take the keyboard off and use it like a tablet or snap it back on and use it like a laptop. With up to 13 and a half hours of battery life and the new 8th-gen Intel Core processor, it's everything you love about the Surface Pro now even more powerful. Basketball is very good. Jimmy Butler is actually a good teammate. Saabonis is the most important front court pacer.

The air and Fox is better than Donovan Mitchell. Basketball is very good. Hello, everyone. This is the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. Group chat. It's a good impression of Chris. Did I do that, right?

Is that good? Nailed it. I think you had to go a little more. Hello! Hello! That's pretty crazy. There you go. with me today, Paula O'Gedi.

What's up? And our own personal time lord, Haley O'Shaun. I'm going to do justice myself. It's going to get ugly. Haley was attempting to, what do you do with Sage? You bless the room? You take sage and you light it and you put it around the room.

We're not having a podcast with Chris today, so we thought, new beginnings. Let's sage the room. Good vibes. I put up an evil eye. I was going to read their horoscope, so nobody else is into it, but me. You do that for me every day, by the way. So it's already a thing.

I don't know what any of this means. But yes, Chris Ryan is not with us. He called me out because I'm not planning to resign with the ringer this summer, called me the B-word. There you go. And he had to take some time off. But we are here today to talk about some hoops. We love hoops at the ringer.com. We're going to get into some teams that are trending upward, some teams that are trending downward for a little up and down later in the show.

But first... Let's then do some self-analysis on if we're trending upward or downward. That actually might be more interesting. Our reviews on this podcast. What would you say, Paulo is? Oh, you already know where I was like, don't love. Don't give me a lob like that. Paul is the sons of emotional journeys.

So last night, I guess the big game was the Raptors win over the Warriors in that late one. Didn't feel big. Yeah, Raptors 1-13-93 without Kauai for the second straight game, and they blew off a team off the floor, one of the top teams in the Western Conference. And no Jonas in the second half. No Jonas. And on a back-to-back. And on a back-to-back.

Yonis hurt his hand because I believe Draymond Green hit him or something. Did you see him? He was like yelling. Yeah. And how much pain he was. He did not seem happy about what had just happened. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of takeaways from this one, I think, just from a purely basketball standpoint,

simply because we know that the Raptors are really good. I guess, if anything, the Warriors at full strength weren't able to keep up with a team without Kauai and kind of crystallize that maybe the Raptors are the best team in the NBA right now, even better than Warriors? Do we think that this says more about the Raptors or more about the Warriors? I think it says more about the Raptors. I mean, I think the,

I think the Warriors, like, it's weird how they choose to have good games and not so good games. You know, I don't, there's not a rhyme or reason to them. Whereas with the Raptors, I think they're very concentrated on displaying this, like, machine that they have where it's just a bunch of guys. And they're like a deep team that with no Kawhi or no Kawhi, they're going to just be running all over the floor and like super efficient and just have a really strong team. Are you saying with the Warriors, there's less at stake in the regular season? Yeah, totally. And that's what I was going to say too. It may come back to look like nothing. I mean, it's a regular season game.

And it's one of those things where we focus so much on what the Rockets, for example, did last season and the regular season. And is this going to be like the Raptors story too where they're going to have an amazing regular season but then come to playoff? You know, what are we? They're not going to be able to do. It was a franchise if that's seriously the case. That would be so sad. I was going to say that it feels like we're maybe downplaying this a little too much. It is a pretty big one for a team without Kauai to beat the full-star.

On the second I-o-o-back-to-back. And no Valentuna's. Right. Yeah, I just think it comes down to expectations, which is what I think we're getting at. It's just the Warriors, if they drop whatever, however main games they lost with, with Steph and Dremont. Now, it doesn't really matter because we just assume that they're going to be there in the finals at the end of the year. At the top of the West. Yeah, we still have a lot to learn about this Raptors team.

I still think there's some flexibility in terms of, like, who they are and, like, who are their guys and, like, what they could do. Do they match up against teams? Do they shuffle through the center lineup? Seems like they're settling on Serge Baca as the pretty much center over Yonis. But, I mean, Kyle Lowry, a guy who pretty much was shooting poorer than most players in the NBA this year. Who's Marcus smarting it?

Yes. Hard for. He was, like, I forget what I put it. He steps up and he looks like the best player in the floor. I'm so confused by him all the time. Like, I don't know what to make of him. I don't know if I like enjoy watching him play. He looked like Kyle Lowry in the player.

but in the early regular season. From last year, not two years ago where he just completely disappeared. But I don't know. Obviously. No, no, no. I'm saying that before, when he wasn't shooting right,

he's looked like every playoff series that ever seen him. Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting to think about his role. Is he, like, the second fiddle to Kauai or somebody like Pascal Seaccom? I mean, he should be, right?

Because he's the more experienced player there. But I'm wondering, like, when we watch, when the Warriors played in Toronto, that was, I think, more of a game that was like emblematic of how inmate go in the end because every, you know, they were just like exchanging blows. So I'm just wondering if Larry's going to be able to step up in that kind of scenario. Yeah, and in a lot of ways he's kind of the perfect compliment to Kauai.

Right. It's funny that like he and DeMarta Rosen had such as tight bond and whatever. But I think from a basketball standpoint, I can't think of another better player to go with him because it seems like either of them can score 30 on a given night when needed or they could just take a step back and like maybe take five shots, which is what I believe Kyle Lowry had the other night. It's just, there's a lot of flexibility with this lineup.

And I mean, we've talked about this before, and we've written this on the site. There's just, they could really do anything. They're so amorphous, and they have such great depth that they can really just, like, kind of form into whatever you need on a given night. Yeah. I think it's interesting also that I looked this up. Kyle Lowry has a better net rating than Kwai Leonard. So maybe he should be the MVP. They have done really well without Kauai.

Like, that's the other thing, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that goes a lot to their continuity because it's just a it's more or less the same thing that they had last year. So it just has transferred over to this year and they just like look amazing. There's 7 and 1 without Kwai and the one loss was obviously that Bucks game. Right.

Well, speaking of Kauai, I did want to get into this Brian Winhorse story on ESPN.com the other day. It was pretty much just pointing out that the LA Clippers, a team who can open up two max contracts this offseason, has pretty much been all up in the Kauai, KD kind of just their their ecosphere. They're going to, what was it, 75% of the games

I think is right? Well, roughly 75% of the home game. Did somebody like tabulate that? Like, did they have their own like Zach cram at ESVAN just kind of like keeping an eye on it? They need to keep track of their expenses, you know, their expense reports, so it gets tabulated that way. No, but I mean, I think it was interesting

only in so much as that the clippers are seeing themselves almost as big free agent players. Right. And while we might not look at them as such,

given their history and given where they are currently as a team that is having success but not necessarily on the level of what we expect for the wars and whatnot,

I just think it's interesting that maybe they might be able to kind of break through there. Maybe they know something that we don't know. Maybe they have some

confidence after the Jimmy Butler situation. But for me right now, there's still like the fourth or fifth team I'd consider in a free agency situation this summer, especially for those two players specifically because Kau has been linked to L.A., KD.'s been linked to the Knicks. So for this report saying that the Clippers are watching them and are highly interested, that's like saying I'm after Chris Hunnam and I'm Yveselba,

and I like roughly 75% of their Instagram captions. Well, you're in L.A., so they're around, technically. if you're around. I'm kind of like all four. Like what do they have to lose? Like, yeah, at the end of the day, they're the clippers or they have that baggage, right, of being the clippers of the past. Like, there's no harm in trying to do this. I think I think that maybe we are going to look back and be like, wait, do we really think the clippers had a chance to get Dwight Leonard and Kevin Durant?

But I, but the reports keep getting like stronger, too. Like, it seems like, you know, not everybody wants to maybe if they come to a L.A. join the Lakers. So why not join an organization? Then I has Jerry West, for example, leading it. The Lakers or LeBron? Well, I mean, Da, da, da, da, da.

That's more, Lakers are LeBron. To me, they're, like, equal. So, I don't know. I think, I mean, it would be fun. Like, they clearly have, like, a strong core of a team right now that, you know, like, if you're going to swap out, like, Tobias Harris for one of those two guys, like, you immediately become, like, a top half of the West. Or if you're getting one of them and you keep.

to buy his hair. That's still a super show team. I'm not mad at the clippers. I'm just not sure like how big of a deal it is that they're going after them. So as everyone else. I look at it and I almost think of LeBron simply because when he went to Miami, what was it eight years ago now, it was kind of a blank slate for him. And it seems like based on those comments that Katie made in Bleach Report and kind of what we know about Kauai in terms of like what he wants and what he's rumored to want. Do you do you know anything about Kauai and what he wants? I'm not like asking to accuse you. I'm genuinely asking, like, has he ever said anything? He definitely doesn't like holidays.

Other than that he doesn't want to talk about Chris. No, but it does, I mean, I thought who's interesting. Like, the person I think that has been closest to Kauai or has provided the most insight is Chris Carter, like, last year, the Hall of Fame wide receiver, where he was pretty much like, I know Kauai. Like, I think they grew up, like, in the same area. Or like, something like that. And he was basically, like, he doesn't want to go and be, like, another guy.

he wants to kind of start his own thing. And I do think the clippers present that more than anything, right? You could pretty much go and be anything there. You could take that franchise. It's almost like the next thing without the baggage of history or even like the James Dullen situation. And I think back to like when Ballmer bought the team, like everyone kind of suspected, well, maybe he'll move them to Seattle

because that's where he's from and he spends a lot of time there still. But I look at it and I'm like, the biggest lure of that team is like is the market. They're in Los Angeles. And even though the Clippers historically have been kind of like the Sass Sack franchise, I don't know if guys like Kauai Leonard really think of them in that way. Because in the past, I mean, we're getting close to like a decade where they've been on the same level as some of these like major franchises. The Knicks. Yeah, exactly.

The Lakers. And the other thing is that, speaking of Balmer, I mean, I'm not sure how much a player specifically, I'm not sure where he ranks ownership. But like, think about all the Sarver stuff going on in Phoenix. Yeah. And the Bulls. I mean, owners really matter. And like Steve Ballmer's given no indication that he's like going to do anything that will jeopardize it. And he's unique in the fact that like this is like his pet project.

And like there's nothing standing in his way. Like he will literally do anything through whatever money he needs to succeed in this area. And it's not like out of like, oh, I need to make the money back or anything. Like he's just he's doing it for the fun of it. And like that almost is more like that's more powerful. if that makes sense. And, like, you know, that's why I think it's like, it's a very interesting, they're going to be a very interesting case.

And they're clearly prepping for this in a very, like, obvious way. And, like, it doesn't seem like they matter that it's this obvious because they're going to 75% of the games. I mean, if these are the type of guys who want to be wooed. And I think, like, back to, like, college recruitment, like, all these guys say that, you know, this is kind of similar to that process. And guys like the braun weren't really wooed in college. I think this is the type of thing they're seeing now.

And while it is incredibly creepy that they're just sending. like executives to games that might like talk to them or not I don't know how that goes right are you allowed to talk to them so they're not so they're not allowed to talk to them I think this may have been mentioned in the story but I think they're just I mean they're not allowed to talk to them right air quotes I don't know if they that's something that's that happens or whatever but I know but it's just about I think the face time just being there which is creepy the face time from far away but I'm wondering maybe that's where like you look up at a free throw and someone just watching you and winking just Jerry West staring back at you

If this has been common for a while now and we're just now kind of like seeing it more in the open and if that's going to be a thing that we hear more of now going into the future like are people going to start showing up to you know Pelicans games

I don't know Ringer let's find out why don't you send me to roughly 75% of Miami heat games and I'll let you know what it's like living down there for the third of a season right now

I just want to be in Miami yeah I mean I was at a game I think it was the Warriors game and like the Clippers did pack that front row it was like Balmer. It was Jerry West. It was Lawrence Frank. I think Rich Paul was there and they made sure that Rich Paul was like sitting

with them. I mean, shouts to Steve Balmer for doing what he can, but like maybe be a little bit less of a creep. Moving on, the other big game last night was one Anthony Davis. Speaking of potential big movers in free agency, that's a transition. Let's go. Let's go.

Anthony Davis goes off for 44 against the Oklahoma City Thunder. They still almost lost it in the last second, but Russell West. Brooks surprisingly decided not to go at Anthony Davis with five fouls underneath the basket and decided to dish it off to our guy, Alex Sabrina. You're a guy.

My guy. I would contend that the pass was off the mark and perhaps if it was a little bit more pinpoint, he would have been set up in a position to make that shot, but he missed and they lost and the Pelicans got probably one of their biggest wins of the season. They always managed to play well on national TV. I guess the only downside of that is they're never on national TV. Never at all that could. Polly, you wrote about this one last night

for the ringer.com. I mean, for you, what was the big takeaway? I mean, it was interesting. Like, the ending was enough of a takeaway even in like that's last minute because they had a five, like they had a, I think a 10 point leave with five minutes left and they got,

and they just kind of like let it up because like if Anthony Davis is not doing almost everything or Drew Holiday, like they just, they're so shaky. Like I think I was one play that really stuck out to me was where AD had a floater, right? And he missed a floater. He went and tipped it on the one side, missed it,

then went on the other side and tipped it again, and then it finally went in. Then he ran down the court, saved the ball from going out of bounds, and then it ended up being stolen, and then Dennis Sherrod had an easy layup. So, like, he looked like he had gone literally just court, like end to end.

And like you said, you know, he maybe gets up for these national TV games, but it was, it sucks because, like, I was really into the Pelicans, like, toward the latter half of the season, and I was, I thought they were going to be top five team in the West this season. So it really sucks to watch them

and see how much AD has to do and like you can't help but think about the larger picture is, I guess. It seems like they can never carry momentum. Yeah. Whether it's from last season to this season, right, exactly. And to that point, their past 10 games have all been a loss win in that pattern.

So loss win, loss win, loss win, loss win, loss win. So they're, yeah. It's just like they can't seem to either go forward or really they just bottom out. because mostly they have guys like True and AD to your point. I don't know. With me, I've obviously been watching this team closely for a while now.

It's just, it's such a slog to watch them. You know, they came out in that first game and they blew the doors off of Houston in Houston when we all expected Houston to be the team from last season. And I was just like, man, this is like the first time these games have been exciting.

Like, they just played with this like nervous energy where they could just run you off the floor and they wanted to like basically do the Drew Holiday Point and laugh at you sort of thing from last year's playoffs. And that was like, that was their identity

and they finally seemed to have something. But I haven't really seen it since then. And part of it is just the injuries once again are stacking up. But let's think about who's injured, right? Yep. Alfred Payton. Yeah.

Eton Moore. Nikola Mirichich is out. And I tried to look up for how much longer he'd be out and everything was super vague. It was like... Yeah, he has like... One report said he'll be out till he's fully healthy. Yeah, which is not a good sign.

That's great. I think it's a good. I think it's an ankle injury. So probably a couple games at least. Not an encouraging sign. So on the one hand, those are what, three of their top six, seven guys? Think about what you just said. Those are three of their top six or seven guys.

Those people being injured should hurt, but not that much. That's the Pelicans problem. But maybe one that they'll solve soon, hopefully. I think the larger point maybe is that even if they get those guys back, like, what are they going to be? It's a little depressing to think about it that way But like Yeah Like I said I was high in the soon going into the season

But I don't know like looking at the West now I guess it's a little more open Because there's not really like a clear cut second best team So maybe if they get those guys back And you know like we'll talk about like They'll add somebody at the trade that line I don't know what their assets are really But you know then maybe maybe

The second half takes another positive turn Like it did last season And that's the whole thing that Just because they have in the past been willing to trade their first round pick, right? And that has been their big trump card. When nobody wants to trade first round picks, they've been willing to do so. I can't remember what the protections were on Miratech, but they pretty much, they got a

really good deal out of that where they got off of Omar Oshik's contract and they got a player who at this point is like probably their third best player. I wonder if in this market that we're in now, where we see Kyle Corver go for a, I believe, two second rounders and George Hill gets traded for essentially a second rounder and just long money that the bucks wanted to give up. I do wonder if their advantage there, that their boldness that they've used to their advantage over the past couple years, even with DeMarcus cousins. I wonder if it might not be there this year.

Yeah. I wonder who even is out there right now that we can think of that would make an appreciable difference. That's true. I think that a lot of being bold has been backed up by the fact that you have Anthony Davis and you have him for right now and you need to win right now with him. And maybe they won't be as bold because they're seeing the writing on the wall that we're all seeing that eventually is probably not going to want to be there anymore. Yeah.

It's tough though because like you have to go all in. Like you have no choice. Like if you were like a bigger market team, then you could play that off as like, okay. I mean, there's like a positive set here. But like they, I mean, you know, like they have to go all in for to keep Davis. They're in the same situation as the Rockets. Go all in now because this is going to be a mess in a year or two if you aren't winning right now. This is the window, yeah.

And I would be surprised if they didn't try to make a go for it just because I think, like, yeah, they're probably, like, slowly looking at the scenario where Davis leaves this off season is a more realistic thing. But, like, that's the type of thing where you don't really confront it and accept it until you have to. Just because I also think it's going to be a tough sell to a fan base that's already kind of, like, iffy on the team. Like, they're going to have to reboot again, which is, I mean, there's been so many of those since Davis was drafted. I just think, like, you try to do everything you can to keep him if he leaves, he goes. But I don't know. To that point, like, do we see anybody that can really make enough of a difference here? Well, I mean, I think that we're looking right now at the positions that they need to fill because of injuries, right?

So there's a couple point guards on this list. Before we get into that, I also want to point out that we are totally ignoring when we talk about their injuries. The fact that Anthony Davis has had quite a couple scares of late. Like, before he had the 41-point game against Boston, he was questionable heading into it. Because the game before, he only played 25 minutes. And then last night, didn't he have an injury here too? He went out and then he came back in, which is, I got to the point when I was covering the team in that last year that I had a spreadsheet where I used to chart every time he left games and then came back. Because he didn't have a lot of injuries that year.

In fact, I think he played 70 games for the first time in his career. But he would just go out for like 10 minutes at a time. And then sometimes he would come back. Sometimes he didn't. And so those added up because you need all the minutes you can from Davis. And to that point, they're asking Drew and him to play a lot of minutes to see. So many minutes. They're both leading the league.

Well, it's Davis and then Drew an average point or average, excuse me, minutes per game. Yeah. Davis with 37, Drew with 36.6. And yet, even though Davis went out last night, they played him 40 minutes. Right. I mean, that's the issue. They have to. I mean, it's his own quote is that I need to be almost perfect for us to have any chance.

to win. It's funny how that keeps coming back. Like, that's like the one thing. I think there's so many parts of it for me. Like, yeah. Like, first of all, he's saying, I need to be almost perfect, which is basically saying that he realizes what the front office is maybe oblivious to, maybe just doesn't know what to do about. The fact that he cannot have an off stretch and the team will win. Those two cannot happen together. And then also the second half of that quote is that he needs to be almost perfect to have a chance to win. Yeah. A chance. He's still not going to be enough. happened at the game last night.

If Alex Sabrina's made out of three, he would not have been enough. He had 44 points. He did everything. Against Boston, he scored 41, and they still lost by 13. And in games where he scored 40 or more, I think the season, they are only three and two. Like, you would think if your star player scores 40 points, you probably should win every one of those games. Yeah, I mean, I think the numbers are good when they've had everybody healthy. I think Alfred Payton, regardless of what you want to say to him, I think he gives them enough.

Yeah. You know, I think he moves drew off the ball. And I think, Holiday said this to someone. I'm sorry. I forgot which article it was in, but it was basically like, if you want me to basically be the best perimeter defender in the league on one end,

you can ask me to do like everything on offense, set everybody up because as good as Davis is, he still needs someone to get him involved. He's still a big, if only a name only. There's just a lot going on. I think that they have something with that starting lineup, but it speaks to the general point we're making,

which is like it needs to be perfect because after the top four or five guys, like it drops off considerably. The talent is just not there. They've punted a lot of draft picks in order to get these Nikola marriage types. And as a result, you have guys like Frank Jackson

who are interesting. It's not because they do have a lot of people who are interesting. Randall, to me, has been playing really well this season. Even Peyton, I thought before he got injured, was having, I guess, interesting is the word for it.

I wanted to watch him and see what you could do in that role. But you can't surround yourself with interesting maybe guys. Yep. Not in a year like this where, you know, like we said. And if Randall plays well, they're going to have to re-sign him in the offseason because I think, believe he had a one-on-one. So he's just going to opt out as Payton will as well.

And I believe Nicolome Yer-Fish. So we'll see how it goes. You know what they should do. Sage the locker. All right. All right. All right. All right.

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We're going to talk about some teams that are trending one way or another and not talk about DeMontas Sabonis for 20 minutes as much as Haley and Powell will want to. Next time. Next time, maybe. Yeah, or Vosophic hour. I actually haven't watched Vucifik lately. Is he still playing well? Yeah. I mean, I scoff. I saw magic or still in the eight seats.

So, you know. All right. I'm sure. All right. We're fine. Still hanging. Okay. First team, the Boston Celtics, who are way up. Yeah. 17 and 10. Fifth in the Eastern Conference right now. Seven straight wins, which I believe is the longest streak

in the NBA. Last night was a particularly interesting one where they almost dropped one to the Wizards in D.C. And it essentially became a duel of Kyrie Irving and John Wall. And you're not going to believe this, but Kyrie Irving won that. You know, I think why they're playing better is pretty obvious. They turn the starting lineup over to the Marcus'

improbably, but and yet here we are. They have smart in Marcus Morris as two of their five most important players. it just seems like the team unfortunately because of injuries has almost like figured out its hierarchy does that seem well it's got injuries but also like

fit earlier in the season you're going to lean on the two people you know that you can lean on and it's the Marcus Morris has been the most clutch player on their team he's been surprisingly consistent I think it's it's interesting to me that like they needed sort of this

early season wake-up call for Brad Stevens to find me like, okay, like I relent. Like, let me not try to do maybe like put our five most talented guys out there and let me do more like what's the best line of for us right now. And you know, that I wonder how that will shift over the course of the season.

That's what I was going to say, do we think that this is going to last? Or do we think he's going to try to reincorporate when health comes back? What the original vision was? I think he'll try to reincorporate Hayward back. Yeah. I think Jalen just makes a lot more sense.

off the bench. Yes. Horford has been out for two straight. Gordon Harwood has been out for two straight. I believe he's just sick. Gershanna, Yibiseli, which is a tough name to say.

I wrote sick slash soft. It depends on how you look at it. No, but there's just like too much talent there where you can't, right? These are just like, these are all of their players. It's almost impossible

to not put in a player that's going to almost disrupt the flow of what they have going on. Well, because eventually in the playoffs, that's going to bite you. Yeah. If you haven't incorporated your most talent, obviously.

I think it's kind of funny that at the beginning of the season, like I remember after that, not to talk about opening night games again, but like when they beat the Sixers and like Tatum looked amazing, everyone was like, wow, like is Tatum the best player on the soldiers are excited. And now it's like, okay, like, Harry's like taking over and it's like, okay, this is his team.

It's clearly Marcus Morris. He's clearly both like on and off the court trying to be that kind of leader guy, which I don't know how I feel about. But it is his team because he's the most talented player. Yeah, and that's what I thought about when I was watching that game last night. It just seemed like it's a Kyrie team. So the point where the reason why they won that game is he was just jacking,

and he made that one deep one that the Wizards couldn't come back from. I think it's good and bad. And on the one hand, it seems like it makes more sense. But on the other hand, like, I don't know who else are turning to in those situations. Marcus Smart was effectively the five-man in that crunch time lineup. Tatum kind of comes and goes. He's obviously a talented player, but he does. seem to kind of disappear at times.

He's 20. I mean, that makes sense. Makes a ton of sense. And then just hoping that Marcus Morris is going to drill those kickouts, which is like, it's working so far. I believe he's having like the best two game stretch of his entire career. But like, you know, eventually that's just not going to go the right way. But what about time lord though?

What about time lord though? I want to ask you guys, did you know that his other nickname is boo butt? No way. I promise. And listen to this. His mom gave it to him when he was little. Wow. She was like, forget someone else teasing my kid. I'm going to tease the shit on my kid and it's going to make him tougher in the long run.

And Boo Butt is on his basketball reference page. That's great. Wow. I don't even know what to say. We're talking about Robert Williams. Yeah, Robert Williams. The Ricketts and nobody's paid attention. Because you're doing know him by his nickname Boo Butt.

Or Timelord, which is much, much better. Yeah, it's really good. The basketball reference nicknames are some of my favorite things. I may have talked about this before because I do it a lot. But my favorite one is Eric Gordon's. who is referred to as The Hobbit, which is like the most savage shit and that's something I don't think anybody has ever called him ever.

But when you say it. You know what I mean? Did you know LeBron's, not to come on a tangent here, was one of his like ten on that page is The Little Emperor. What? The Little Emperor? Yeah.

Who called him the Little Emperor? I have no idea. That's not real. I'm reading right now. Bron Bron and the Little Emperor. What? Yeah. I've never heard of that in my life.

That's what I refer to it, Chris has sometimes too. Oh, we should have been shitting on Chris a lot more this whole time. I forgot. There's still 15 minutes or so here. Okay, let's move to a team that's down here because we like negativity and shitting on things, apparently. The Los Angeles Clippers, 17 and 10, 4th in the Western Conference. Same record, mind you as the Los Angeles Lakers, a team that we thought would sharp. the entire year and at one point I said

wouldn't be as good as a Clippers so I am not right two and four in their past six the past two have been particularly troubling they had needed OT to beat the Suns and without Kauai they were blown off their own floor I believe it was what Tuesday you were there right yeah I was it was Tuesday yes this is an important point that we get the date down on a podcast that might not be listening to I think this is all like relative I feel because like They started off so strong.

They're like, even they're down. You can still call it an up. But I like that. I like what you did there. Thank you. I think it's like an Instagram poem. A sonnet. A little caption.

Yeah. With a sunset. You do post some sunset sometimes. You post a lot of sunset. There's a whole like workplace culture thing at the ringer when like the sky looks nice that everybody is, Grimmon. You know, can't take you for granted.

Right. That's what I say. Back to the Clippers. Did you say that? Yeah, okay. All right, the Clippers. Tell us about the Clippers. I think their defense has fallen off a bit.

And I think it's, it's, we're seeing the problems we anticipated, which is like they don't like have a go-to guy. They can like bail him out of things. And even if when they did, which was Lou Williams in the fourth, he's injured.

So they're just, I don't know, they're just going through a rough patch right now. I don't, I think they're going to be, I think this was expected. I'd never expect them to be the top half of the west. I still think they're going to be in the bottom half of the

west. I think they're going to make the playoffs though. So, you know, it is what it is. They have to play the Spurs today, Thursday, I believe. And then they, as opposed to Tuesday. But then they have to play Oklahoma City too. So, I mean, the stretch coming up is tough. And then the Blazers, then they see the Mavericks, the Nuggets, the Warriors, Kings, Lakers, Spurs, Sixers. I mean, that's just, and then they finally

they get the suns. It's kind of, they're the found money team of the NBA right now. Right. Everything is gravy. Like, nobody expected them to even be in the playoffs this season. They intentionally signed, like, short-term deals and got guys on one-year deals to open up cast space for next season. So if anything, I think the work that they needed to put in this year has already been done because they've established their culture as, like, something that might be attractive that they can bring things out of guys. And if I'm a star player, which I pretty much am. Yeah. Of course.

Of course. I'm going to try to pick this up here No, but I would want to see a franchise Bring the most out of guys Because if you are a top-heavy team You need to make the most of some of these fringe It's been a great season for Doc. I think to your point

I think it's kind of like the Raptors What we're seeing with the Raptors now Where it's like they have their one star And like everybody else is so like Perfect in the role And it can be so effective That the Clippers have that they're just missing that star.

Which just goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Even their de facto stars like Tobias Harris, Galinari. I think those guys all fit around a Kauai or a KD. And I think Tobias is a free agent this summer. And if you have his bird rights, I haven't looked at the math exactly. But he's a guy if you can sign two max players, even if it's like a Kempa Walker, instead of like a Kevin Durant, it's Kauai Kamba and Tobias. It's a pretty good team.

Yeah. So I would be interested to see that. Moving on to your Indianapolis. And a Pacers. They are a team that is way up right now. 18 and 10, 4th in the Eastern Conference. Six straight wins. They are six and four without Victor Oladipo.

Most of that coming against a soft schedule. But El Adpo returned last night, and they pretty much handled the bucks in a way that I hadn't seen the bucks being handled pretty much all season. I don't know. I'm sorry to think they're kind of legit. Yeah. Quickie said, I love everybody's just beating each other. Like, Raptors beat the Warriors.

The Bucks beat the Raptors. but now the Pacers beat the bucks. It's like a weird, I don't know. It's fun in the sense that we know nothing about the regular season. Right. Yeah, it seems like the Raptors are the only team that's on most nights you expect them to win. Like they're pretty much a sure W. Yeah.

But back to the Pacers, I think we don't really think of them right in that top half of the east. But I think they're just like, they just know what they are, which is a weird thing to say, but also underrated, I feel like in the NBA where like they know, you know what their system is. I think they have the 26th slowest pace in the league, so they're not running all over the court. They're very methodical. They obviously wouldn't. They have Oladipa back. They have that kind of star power that they need at the end of the close games.

And, you know, I don't know. I think a lot goes for that. Maybe we should be taking them more seriously. I think they're definitely in the second tier, but there's the first tier and it's we can't decide who is the best team in the east. And outside of them. Okay, sure. But like you said, these teams are.

keep beating each other. Sure. If the Bucks have an amazing night one night, I'm not so sure. But there's the Bucks, the Raptors, put the Celtics in there. I had the Sixers in there earlier, but maybe they have to go down in the second tier. I'm not sure. They're hovering. They have King's to work out, I think.

They're on the bubble. But the Pacers are absolutely in that second tier. A solid team that could really do something in the playoffs later on. Exactly. Do something in the playoffs later on. Yeah. And so I think the more interesting comparison is almost to the 76ers, a team that has way more top-end talent at this point, but as we saw last night, like, it, I don't, yeah, and not a lot of depth.

Like, I don't really know what to make of them on a given night. Like, on one night, they had a really interesting comeback win, uh, over the Pistons where Ben Simmons pretty much played like in Bede, like him and Mascala just like Stonewall, like, four straight shots or something like that. And I'm like, oh, this is like what they can do if they figure it all out. But then Butler's out and it's in Bid and Simmons and all of a sudden, like, there's not the right spacing and they just can't put it together. So I think there's something to be said to Paul's point about just consistency and knowing who you are and racking up these wins.

I mean, at this point, the Pacers are more impressive team than Sixers. Well, I think that there's also, this has a lot to do with Miles Turner. Yes. Who I have been low on probably for two seasons. And now all of a sudden, I mean, I think that you noted that he had two 20-point games back-to-back. But it's so much more about his defense for me. This is the best I've ever seen him play on defense.

He looks incredible. And at the end of last season, that was their goal for him. They were telling him, you need to focus more on defense than the other end. Yeah. Also, like, their role players, you know, I was skeptical when they added Doug McDermott this off season. I thought you were transgressed into Subonis. No, I mean, he's been, I mean.

Funny, you say that. The last few days, but, like, he, I mean, he's been good. But, no, I wanted to kind of shout out McDermott because, like, I was very skeptical when they signed him. I was like, I don't know what this guy has left. But he's been, like, he's been giving them. He's been more helpful than, I think, Tiger Evans, you know. Yeah, Terry's been bad again. I mean, honestly, I think it's not great, but I also believe that he could come along later at the end of the season.

And then that's just another thing that they have. Yeah, there's a strong team that, you know, I think with Deepa, they're much more fun to watch. But, you know, they're not exactly known for their aesthetic. And they're deep at guard, and I believe Winhoris reported in that same Clippers story that they could potentially move a Collison or Corey Joseph because they're high on in the air and Holiday. Good, yeah. When they were in town to play the Lakers, he had,

he had like a pretty, he had some flashes. Like, you know, and I think they just probably want to get him more minutes. And there are teams, I mean,

we just talked about the Pelicans needing a ball handler next to Drew Holiday. Like, that's, like they need a Colson. Right there. I know.

Bring Collison back to New Orleans. New Orleans legend. Okay, last team we have here, the Portland Trailblazers, Paul Ogettys. This is really the Paulo Getty All-Star.

Is what we're doing. They are down. They are really down. Once the top team in the Western Conference, They're now 15 and 13 9th in the Western Conference. They were absolutely embarrassed last night against the Grizzlies. He only scored 83 points.

CJ McCollum had 40, and somehow the rest of the team had 43. The rest of the team also shot 16 for 60 from the floor. I think the big question here is, why did you curse them, Paolo? I don't know what's happened. I honestly don't know. Obviously, one of the easiest answer to this is like, oh, right, that second unit that was like, helping them out in the first such as season and winning them games like Nick Stouskas was like bawling.

Like now that's no longer the case. And it's like, okay, well, are they, did they hit a rough patch or is this just who they are and they need to go and make a move or something? I don't know. You know, I don't even know if they can make a move. So it's like, I don't know. It sucks because like this is like the Blazers like story for the last few seasons. Like they just have they have they have Damon CJ and then you know what else? Obviously Nurkich is that that kind of third guy. But he hasn't done anything like. too much to be able to carry the team through tough games like this one, you know. I don't know. I just, they're confusing. Yeah, I'm at Occam's Razor with this team. It's basically like, wow, they're playing above their heads. Like, look with what they're doing early in the season.

Then it's just like, oh, right, that's Seth Curry. Like, oh, yeah, that's Jake Lehman. And like, all right, there's-en-turner. I think Seth Curry is leading them in three-point percentage. Yeah, but he's been really bad on defense. Their defense in particular is falling off. I think they're 23rd in the past 10 games, which is ironically since Paula wrote the story. you hate to see it

I mean I was convinced too they looked like a different team early on Now do we think that this is a team that would make a trade I could see it I mean I think they're probably going to Go back to what they've been saying this whole time And just like if they just keep augmenting their core It works and then maybe they can dig themselves out of this hole

I think they only need maybe like one or two guys And they'd probably be fine But I don't know Just for the sake of entertainment I'd like them to see to break them up Break up CJ and Dame Yeah I don't think it's gonna happen I don't think that's gonna happen

But at least you know I may have jinxed them But I think the things that I wrote about which is kind of their chemistry And their like continuity and just kind of that That group that they have At least makes me encourage that they'll bounce back from this Like I think some of those traits

To help them in the tough search like this Where like they won't turn out to be like the wizards For example when they lose a bunch game. So, I mean, if you want to look at the glass at full, that's the way to look forward. This is always the story of the Blazers. They have good stretches. They have bad stretches. They have bad stretches. They have bad stretches. And usually it's timed out that their bad stretches come in the playoffs. So even if they do come out of this, I have no hope that in the postseason anything is going to. I mean, I just don't. Because you watch the other teams in the Western Conference, even all the teams that played last night. And there's just so many more that are exciting and have.

another gear, and we've already seen their other gear. Who do you think it's the best, second best team in the West? Let's take a question that I feel like it's been being talked about. Assuming that the Warriors are one? It's a thunder. The Thunder? Yes. I think it might be the Nuggets. Justin was going to say the Jazz.

Yeah, no, I wish. God, Jess. They did blow out the heat last night, though. No, I mean, the Nuggets have been the most impressive. Like, they haven't had Milsap and Gary Harris in the past two, and the bench has kind of acquitted itself. They did lose to Atlanta, but they did be Memphis at home. And I thought that was a really impressive game for guys like Monty Morris and some of their other bench guys.

It might be, it's the Lakers who were the second of a team in the West. But I think it's as a team as a whole, it's a thunder right now. Your voice just got so high pitch. It was like, oh, I don't think Paula believes this. And then, like, as it went on, it was very clear that you believed it less and less as it came out of your mouth. I mean, they have Lleblon. I think there's a Lakers on the Saker's on. No.

Great impression. Thank you. All right, guys. I think our time here is coming. to an end. Does anyone want to say anything about Chris Ryan before we got? I was just going to say, I think that he needs to be off of all of these now. Wow. I think I've just kicked him off. He's been annexed from... I'm going to, um, I'm going to Rudy Go Barre him. You think? Might get two seconds. Yeah. All right, that's it for another episode of group chat.

We will see you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.