The Ringer NBA Show - Disagreements on the Big Board and Rookies in the Playoffs | Draft Class (Ep. 248)

Episode Date: April 13, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and Danny Chau debate their most-differing rankings from The Ringer's updated draft guide (2:27), discuss observations from the Nike Hoops Summit (19:33), and evaluate how the impressive rookie class will perform in the playoffs (22:26). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey you, on today's draft class, we're going to debate the prospects that we have ranked drastically differently. And later on, we're going to discuss all the amazing rookies that are going to be a pairing in the NBA playoffs like Ben Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum, all your favorites. But first, a word from our sponsors. Today's NBA draft class is brought to you by the Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone, in your car and around the house. Do you ever forget where you parked your car at a game? You're walking around the stadium after the game and camp for the life of you, remember where your car is? Check this out.

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I'm Kevin O'Connor, staff writer at the ringer.com. This is draft class. Joining me on the other line is fellow ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys, talking to you from actually fairly sunny portal and it's been a nice week all things considered weather-wise. Must be beautiful up there, John, and sitting across from me here in beautiful Los Angeles. Back from a sabbatical in the mountains, the associate editor, Danny Chow. You know what? I was up in the mountains last week. I had gallons and gallons of mountain spring water to cleanse me.

Got all of my Mario Hosonia takes out of my systems. Let's get to the draft. Let's get the playoffs rolling. And of course, as always on the other side, is our producer, Isaac, how are you doing today? I'm good, man. I'm pumped at the playoffs are finally here, although sadly, my beloved clippers, they did not make it in. this time around. But on the flip side, it's all the more reason for me to look forward to the draft.

Exactly. For all the eliminated playoff teams, now is the time to really get excited. One month away from the NBA draft lottery, a little bit over two months away from the NBA draft. It's time to go. Let's do it. So on Wednesday, we expanded the ringers 2018 NBA draft guide to include 30 of my scouting reports, rankings from me, Danny Chow,

Jonathan Charks. We have commentary from Roger Sherman. A lot of cool stuff. All three of us had Luca Dantrachr ranked first, but today we're not going to discuss the guys that we agree on. It's about disagreement, and we had a lot of those. The theme of the draft this year is Big Man, from DeAndre Aiton to Marvin Bagley to Jaron Jackson. So to kick off today's pod, let's start with Missouri Big Man, Jonte Porter.

He's a skilled big man who spaces the floor and does all the little things on offense, passing, screening, all that good stuff. But his defense needs work. Danny hasn't ranked 17th on his board. He's 20th on mine. But he's number nine on yours, Charks. Why? Well, I guess we should mention off if y'all don't know. Jante is Michael Porter's little brother.

I think he might have little Mark Gassal syndrome. He's kind of been his older brother's shadow his whole life. A little overweight right now, but he has time to get his body together. To me, I look at Jante. I feel like there's a lot of Wendell Carter in his game. I think like he's a bigger big with some defensive issues, but I think he's a much better shooter. I feel like he's a pure stretch five.

I just love his skill. He's a pretty good defensive player in terms of his basketball IQ, his rim protection, his helpside defense. So to me, if I'm gambling on a big or big, I want a guy with pure perimeter skills like Jontay. Yeah, my whole thing with Jontay is, let's get more of these types of players than the NBA. Like, he's not at the level of Nicola Yokic, but you're looking at a similar type of player in that he's kind of conditionally not too fit to be playing in the NBA right now. There's some blubber.

Yeah, but he's extremely intelligent. As a chart said, a great floor spacer, awesome passer. That's one of my favorite things about his game. You could see him on the short roll kicking it out the three-point shooters easily. Absolutely. That's why I wouldn't be surprised with Danny said he goes back to school because he's super young. He actually reclassified a play with Michael, which didn't really work out, unfortunately. But he's a really young guy.

I think he's still 18. He could probably go back to school and work on his body more. But if he does come out, to me, he's a really big sleeper in this draft. And with me, I have him the lowest of any of us at 20. It's not that I dislike him. 20's a perfectly fine ranking. He's going to be a solid player. I think with his passing ability, his shooting is screen.

greening, defensive positioning, as you said, charts. There's a lot of good qualities in him. But the difficulty I have with your ranking charts, especially is like, you have him ahead of Mo Bamba at 11 and ahead of Wendell Carter, who I love a lot more than you guys do. I have him 6th, you guys have him 10th and 12th, respectively. But I guess I'm curious, you know, in your evaluation, if you're a team drafting,

what is it about Porter that's ahead of some of those bigger name guys like Bomba and Carter? Oh, well, see, too, may I say with Carter? I think that's why I have them like 9 and 10. I think they have very similar profiles, except I would say Jontes more perimeter oriented. As far as Mo goes, I go back and forth on Mo a lot. I'm a Texas guy. I want to rank him high. But I'm just, I'm not really sure about his skill.

I'm not really sure about his feel for the game. And my even sure he's that athletic, honestly. I think he's like, he's really long, obviously. He has a great frame. But I'm not sure about it as just quick twitch. Like, to me, watching him at Texas, like here's my hot take. I'd rather have Jared Allen if I'm taking a Texas big. That's interesting.

Jared Allen, he has been really, really good this year in the NBA. He's a lot better than a lot of people expected him to be. He failed a 22nd. I know the Nets were like sweating bullets that he wasn't going to slip to them. They had him ranked a lot higher. Like I'm sure some other teams might have as well. But I kind of wonder if maybe that's what ends up happening with Bamba at the next level. He just ends up a lot better than he might have looked at Texas because of that situation.

You've probably seen that team a lot more than any of us have charts. Is there just something different about Bamba that you were? about a lot more than you did like with Alan? Well, to me, Alan, I just feel like, when I was watching him at Texas, I was like, this guy really knows how to play basketball. He's really skilled. He's athletic enough. He's long enough. I wonder with Moe, if there's some diminishing return

on that 7-9 wingspan. I wonder, once you're past 7-4-75, is that four inches that much more valuable than, like, field athleticism? It looks pretty good for Rudy Gober, doesn't it, Danny? Yeah, but Go-Bear is, what about Alka Zizinka, right? There's plenty of super long guys who aren't very good. Yeah, and I feel like we're about,

what, 10 years removed from Hashim Thabit. And I know that in this day and age, we're not really drafting purely on measurables anymore. But I don't know. I really feel like the baseline for Mo Bamba in terms of his very raw base skill set is a guy that you want in the modern NBA. Agreed.

And there's the concern that maybe, oh, he's not as intense as a guy like Ruby Gober was when he was coming into the draft. Gober was a relentless player in Europe. And that's something that translated immediately. and that's something that's helped him kind of become the player he is now. Bamba doesn't really play with that fire, but I still think that you take a gamble on a guy with a 7-9 wingspan.

And that's kind of almost the problem with the Go-Bair comparison. We have Go-Ber as one of the comps in the draft guide. But Go-Ber, when evaluating him in the drafts, there's no question about his intensity, about his work ethic. The real question was, like, can he play basketball? Right now with Bomba, it's how skilled is he actually at basketball? But also there's some of those questions in terms of his intensity at the court. However, like, I got on a conversation with someone on Reddit earlier this week after the giraffe guy had dropped.

And he's like, well, do you fear the Hashim-to-beat comparison for Bamba? And I just don't see it at all because with Tabeet, there was always questions about his work ethic off the court. How much he loved the game, how much he was willing to commit to it. Bomba, there's never been that question. We know he has a good work ethic. We know he at least has put the time into the game. So, granted, we haven't seen the intensity necessarily. on the court, it's been inconsistent.

I think Bamba, if he were to drop out of the top 10, that would be a criminal mistake in my opinion. Here's my thing. So, Bamba has famously gone to the Sloan conference. Twice. Twice. And he's, you know, a... It's a good bit for sure. Yeah, a very avowed learner.

He wants to know about that. But you know what? Are you concerned that he might be a blog boy? Is that a bad thing to be a blog boy? I don't know. Maybe... To care about analytics. To care about analytics, what if he's soft?

What if he's soft? What if all he cares about are... He advanced metrics. Maybe that's what's holding him back. Maybe that's what's holding him back. What's your take on that, Sharks? I mean, I don't know. Like, I'm not even so worried about the intensity, which is a concern.

But to me, like, I have Bomba in this range, right? I kind of see him as more of a one-dimensional big, kind of like Robert Williams. So to me, like, I think I can get a guy like that at 10, 11, 12. I feel like Williams will give you most of what Bomba will give you. So I don't need to get him. That guy at the top five pick, essentially. I just still can't see putting Porter ahead of him just because of the potential defensive limitations.

He's not a good rebounder. His athleticism is average. Yes, he could get in better shape, but it doesn't have length, doesn't have quickness. I don't know, man. He's a solid player, and he's going to be a pro for quite a long time, I think. But ahead of some of those other guys, I have a hard time. I'm curious about the Carter versus Porter comp. Why is Carter so much better than Porter?

I think Carter's a much better athlete. Is he, though? I mean, they're both not great athletes. Neither one of them is like an Aiton Jackson. Yeah, I would kind of agree that Carter is a better athlete. He's also longer. He's got about three, four inches. More explosive.

I thought Jontay was a 7-2 wingspan. No, Jontay's wing span's actually pretty short. Seven foot. Yeah. And Carter's also more explosive around the rim. Porter stinks finishing, obviously, still only a small sample size in college, but he didn't look great finishing around the rim, whereas Carter pretty explosive, even though he's not an above-the-room guy.

He at least gets up there quickly, I think. Oh, yeah. Well, you're seven feet. You're right. I thought it was 17 feet. Speaking about athleticism, one of the probably more athletic players, if not the most athletic big man in the draft is Mitchell Robinson. He's a big man we had ranked drastically differently.

Didn't play college basketball last season after he left Western Kentucky twice. Really weird situation last year where he was there. Then he left without telling him buddy. Then he went back. And then he left again and decided to, quote, train for the drafts. But some weird stuff there as well. He's a wild card, elite athlete. The skill is the question.

Already 20 years old. Danny has him 24th. Charks, you have him 27th. I have him 17th. I guess I'll just start off and say. Man, like, it's similar to what you like about those other guys' charks, Robert Williams, and that similar range, I have him below them. But that athleticism is ridiculous.

There's no doubt that he's a very fluid athlete. He can fly out of nowhere to block shots, potentially a great rebounder. There's concerns with him. But I do wonder if he's a project worth investing in in the middle of the first round, Danny. The thing that sticks out with me is that his frame is pretty phenomenal. He has these kind of, like, enormous shoulders that were. remind me of Anthony Davis. So if he wants, he can actually pack on a bunch of weight.

The Hassan Whiteside route, he could definitely go into that. My concern is he has a really high center of gravity. His legs are really long. And at the next level, at the NBA level, when he has to bang with, you know, a lot of big men who can kind of handle him in terms of size, like, does he have the leverage? The high hips. Yeah, his skills are so rustic. You know, you see glimpses of it and you're like, oh, that's cool. But, like, do you really want him doing a lot of the stuff that he did in?

high school in the NBA. Do you sharks? I would say with me, with Mitchell, I'm just fading him in terms of Ryan, we're watching last year, McDonald's, his feel for the game and his overall skill level. Like, this is a guy who really needed to be playing basketball at this age.

Every day against good competition. I worry a lot this year off is going to hurt him. To me, it's like your generic, rim-running, shot blocking five. Generic strong, but I'm not sure I need to take a gamble on a guy like that when guys like that are fairly available in the middle of first round now. A guy with so many red flags.

Here's my thing. You could have said a very, very similar thing about Hassan White'side. And granted, maybe you don't want to invest in that guy in the middle of the first round. But if you're a team with a good culture. And teams didn't. Teams didn't. Yeah, right. He slipped.

But see, to me, Hassan is way more, which I guess he got more skilled. Like Mitchell, when I watched him last year, his skill level was concerning. Sure. But at 20 years old, that's what I mean. Like DeAndre Jordan at 20 years old as a rookie drafted in the second round by the Clippers, it took him like four or five years until we thought of him as a great defensive player, a great rebounder, an unbelievable rim runner. Before that, he was just a super raw guy.

And for me, it's like maybe you invest in that guy if you're willing to commit the time. If you're a team that isn't willing to wait, you need a guy more immediately, then sure, you're definitely not going to want to waste your resources on a guy who's certainly a project. I don't to screw with you at all charts on that. Maybe for us, we have a similar valuation. It's more about philosophy and the time you're willing to commit to a big rim runner like that. But I think back to something you said, Charks, maybe last week's pod or a week before that, where you mentioned how maybe it's these big men that teams look for in the future,

those Robert Williams types, maybe a Mitchell Robinson type, when you are spacing the floor with four shooters and then one rim running big man, he fits that. Yeah, I guess I have a question in terms of where you see his potential comparatively with some other guys, like between Mitchell Robinson and, say, a guy like Justin Patton last year. I think Patton's a little bit more skilled. But then again, there's more exposure to him, right? You could watch endless game tape of him playing a crate and where he's Mitchell Robinson, it's like put him into YouTube, you know, if you want to watch back stuff.

And it's difficult to find things that have substance. I like Patton more, also a younger player. But Mitchell Robinson is just intriguing. I mean, I have him ahead of Jontay Porter, which you think is probably nuts charts. I just think he's worth investing in if you're a team with a good culture and good coaching staff, good player development. I think what it comes down to what you're saying about, like, philosophy, like, to me, your raw young project bigs, unless I really believe in them, I'd rather take an older

wing at that point in the draft. Like, to me, you can find, like, the game has changed a bit, so we're like, raw project bigs are everywhere now. Like, if I want to find that athletic seven-footer who kind of runs around and doesn't have a great feel for the game, it isn't hard to find those guys. Seven-foot chicken? Yeah, that's, like, those guys are easier to find now. So to me, I don't need to use a first-round pick and what.

I really believe in a guy like that. Speaking of, as you said, Charks, guards and wings, let's move on to Kyrie Thomas. He's a junior from Creighton, 6'3, super long arms, 610 wingspan, I believe, even though it's not listed on the draft guide,

almost 22 years old. Defensive Menace offers pretty good offense as well with his shooting ability. Ball handling needs to get better for him to expand his game. I have him 15th. Danny has him 16th. Charks, you have him 24th.

Danny, why do we like him so much? I think when you look at him and you look at his measurables, he compares pretty favorably to a guy like Reggie Jackson, who was 6-3, 6-4, 7-foot wingspan, kind of along the same lines, defensive menace. I just really enjoy watching play defense. He's one of those guys who makes defense look fun.

He stays attached to his man, recovers well, can kind of glide around screens. His length kind of always puts him in position to strip the ball or intercept it. I think when you look at his body, and especially once we get to like the combine, I think the Donovan Mitchell comparisons might be inevitable.

They have a pretty similar profile. Right or wrong and they'll be there. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's something that, you know, Draft Express did pretty much every year in that they would compare measurables to past guys in their database. And I think those two are going to inevitably show up linked.

Yeah, to me, I mean, I like Kyrie. But I think for me, like in this 1523 range where I kind of have them right outside of it, they're just bigger and more offensively versatile wings who can do some of those same things on defense. And so, I mean, I like Kyrie, but I think this range is like the range in this draft where it's a ton of value.

And I just value some bigger wings ahead of them. That's why I have him lower than y'all, I think. Is he a wing? I mean, positions are very tough to define, but is he a wing? Or is he a guard? Because there is some guard ability there with him, at least on the offensive end of the floor. Defensively, he can defend one through three,

and maybe fours on super small ball lineups. I mean, like, wing, he's like a two, right? two on offense. Or I guess he could be like a guy who plays off the ball again with the point forward and guard ones. But to me he's still

like a wingish kind of player. He's not going to be an issue I don't think he looks up. I mean he's pretty much got the same size as a guy like Etouin Moore who plays the three for the Pelicans. So like at this point

he can probably slide in at around one to three. I just don't know if he has the kind of dynamic moves off the dribble to really be a kind of a lead guard. Here's why I'm super intrigued by him. He has the baseline of skills, right?

He has the baseline of skills, right? He has the, defensive ability, as you said, Danny. He makes defense look fun. I mean, just searched Kyrie Thomas' defense on YouTube after you listen to this podcast. Just watch it for a little bit. You'll have fun. He can hit spot-up threes at a really high level.

He's gotten better each season, expanded, shooting a little bit off screens off the move. It's kind of exciting. Smart player. Good work ethic as well. And with the passing ability, the ball handling's not there, but he has some pretty solid passing vision. He knows how to make the right

plays, and he occasionally makes really smart passes with good velocity on the ball? I don't know. I mean, I don't know if he'll ever be a point guard necessarily, but I think there's a little bit more playmaking ability that could be there if he takes his ball handling to

a much higher level than it is now. There's something there. That's exciting to me. I just think there's this really interesting trend at the kind of mid to late stage of the first round where you're looking at a lot of guys who are very much of the same profile of the same build, you know,

Melvin Frazier, Josh Okie, a bunch of these guys who kind of have the same skill set. And it's really just a matter of seeing which guy you like, which guy teams think can, you know, push them forward. Yeah, I mean, I think for sure you're going to see, I think we're already seeing it in most boards. Like, after about 13, 14, it's going to be a very wing-heavy draft. Everybody needs wings. Everybody wants wings. And it's like finding out the difference between those guys, finding those small differences

to think that makes, that's going to like get your evaluation ahead. Getting a guy like Sterling Brown in a draft is just huge for a team. And find that kind of players just so valuable in the mid-de-late first round. Hey, Danny, I have a random question. I like your stinkers, wow, though. It was Jordans? Yeah, they're Jordan Forrest. All I ask, because today's NBA draft class is brought to you by Goat.

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One last guy to discuss that we had ranked fairly differently is Anthony Simons. He's 19 years old, 6'4 guard, amazing athlete. Didn't play college basketball last year because he was the IMG Academy and he recosified to insert himself into the 2018 drafts.

I have him ranked 23rd. He's 28. on Danny's boards, but he's 30th on yours, Charks. Charks, I know there's been some concern that's come up this week with him. Care to share? Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I've not watched him play that much. I was looking forward to watching him at Hoop Summit, but he pulled down to the last minute. And the people I've talked to here, they really think he's being hidden. They're very concerned that he's, like, all on paper and doesn't have actual, like,

in-game feel and ability, and that his plea-boy is trying to get him a first-round contract. And so the concern about a lot that's around Hoopsum is, like, How good is this guy really to be worth all the development time he's going to need? Like, is his upside high to justify taking in the first round if he's just kind of a guy? Like, Kevin, what's like the ups on him? Because I haven't watched him that much, really. I mean, he's an amazing athlete. Clearly has the ability to create off the dribble.

I think that alone is intriguing enough. The shot needs to get better. He's a shot taker right now, not necessarily a shot maker. Reminds me of maybe what a teenage Lou Williams might have looked like, just a little bit bigger and more athletic than him. he's intriguing. I think he's worth a flyer in the late first round. Unless there's other concerns, whether it's character or whether you bring him in for workouts

and he just totally bombs, then yeah, that's different. I don't care about him not playing at Hoops Summit. What's the point? He's going to be working out for teams over the next coming months. He's going to be interviewing with them. He's going to do all the stuff that he needs to do to prove himself as a first round pick. Well, that's the question. It's just workouts.

Is he going to go up against guys like Javon Carter and workouts? Are they going to hide him in there too, right? And if he does, that's a pretty good litmus. because Javon Carter, one of the better defensive players in college basketball, a much older guy. And he's old as hell, yeah. He's like 40 years old. They physically developed.

I mean, if I'm Simons, that's the guy I want to go against. Not some high schoolers. If he had a bad week at Hoop Summit, people would use that against him even if it was actually worthless. So I think for him, it's like, get rid of that, just forget it, and handle the workouts. Maybe you go against a Carter who's like 22, and maybe you blow him away, and then teams are talking about it.

We'll see how much is people believe in him by who he works out against. That'll be like the litmus test. Like, do his people really think he's that good? Are they going to be playing this game the whole way to the draft process? While we're on the topic of Portland, is there any 2019 prospects out there who are standing out charts? I mean, everyone's always talking about, of course, is RJ Braddockers, Cameron Reddish, the two Duke kids.

And what's interesting is right now, Cameron Reddish's jump shot is way ahead of RJ's. And RJ is kind of the guy who's gotten all the love, but his jumper has been really wonky so far out here in Portland. And that'll be a thing to watch really closely next year. For a guy who could be done by an overall pick, he's airball in threes. He makes some, but some of his jump shots are all over the map. So today's Thursday. Last night was the last night of the NBA regular season. And on Saturday,

the playoffs began. But actually, in between NBA voters need to submit their ballots for rookie of the year, for MVP, all that good stuff, coach of the air, whatever. What everybody's been talking about this week, for whatever reason is what I find to be the easiest debate out of all of them, Ben Simmons versus Donovan Mitchell, the rookie of the rookie of the your discussion. Danny, I know you care very, very passionately about this Ben Simmons. Donovan Mitchell debate. I don't care. I don't care. Look, I am on tweet deck all the time. I follow at least 1,700 people on Twitter. It was on my feed for forever, and I just, I don't care. That's all I have to say about it. I really don't care. Charks, I know in our notes for the pod,

you said you wanted to discuss. I'm curious about your thoughts. Well, I mean, it's just the topic of conversation. It's kind of funny that it got to be such a big deal. I guess. I guess. I don't know. I guess my only question is this. This is the last thing I'll ask about it. Should rookie of the year be based on the first year of the contract rather than appearing in a game? Should it be just left the way it is where it's actually when you appear in your first game, you become a rookie? Or is it ink dries? It's the first year of your deal. Then you're a rookie. So Ben Simmons would be in a second year. I mean, he's definitely the red shirt rookie of the year. I think it definitely helped him a lot having that redshirt season. There's no question about that. It made him a better player.

It made him a better player, but it didn't fix his jumper. Like, you know, I don't know. I would just leave the rule as it is. I don't think there's any other year in which you are going on these types of weird ad campaigns pretty much. It's weird. I'm just disappointed by the entire discussion. I'm sad that we even talked about it even a little bit here because it's like... It's Simmons.

It's Ben Simmons. It's Ben Simmons. And Mitchell's been unbelievable too. But really, the underlying story is the fact that there are going to be a ton. of really good rookies in the playoffs this year. You got Simmons, Markell Fultz just had a triple double last night. He's looking pretty good for the Sixers.

Mitchell on the Jazz, Tatum on the Celtics, Ban on the Bio and the Heat. Zach Collins playing more minutes for the Blazers. O.G. and Anobi, a fixture in the Raptors, really, really strong bench. Jordan Bell getting minutes for the Warriors. Even Sterling Brown, a second round pick getting minutes later in the season for the Milwaukee Bucks.

Tarks, there's a ton of rookies that are going to have. have to make a strong impact on their teams this postseason. What are some of the common traits that's made them successful and can help their teams in the playoffs? What's really surprised me about these guys, I mean, like, a lot of them are playing really good defense, right? The knock on young guys is always, oh, they're really going to be far behind on defense. But OG and and Obie, like, he's a Raptor's best perimeter defender. Jordan Bell is playing incredible defense for Golden State this year. Sterling Brown's been good on defense.

That's like they've been the common thing. These guys on good teams, if you're a young player, you almost have to play good defense to get on the floor. That's what these guys all do pretty much. Right. And I would say with the exception of Zach Collins, all of these guys have very NBA-ready bodies. So they were ready to absorb, you know, the wear and tear of the league. And even with Zach Collins, they were able to bring him in slowly.

And now he's very much a fixture in the rotation. A guy who is a very underrated defender. I've been looking at the stats. And the Blazers actually have the best rim protection numbers in the league. Which is surprising. Yeah. Between Nurkich and Collins. And they both rim protect in different ways.

But Zach Collins is so agile, and he's so smart with his placement, with his hands and all of that. It's really stunning to see this rookie class. Dude, I love Zach, but he's about to be sacrificed. On the altar of Anthony Day. It's really bad for him. You had Collins ranked like six at one point last year, Chuck.

So for you, is he further ahead than what you might have expected him to be? Yeah, I mean, he's further ahead because, like, I look at his body, think, oh, he'll only one or two years. at least to get himself ready for the NBA. But what he's been able to do with this by that's still so underdeveloped is really impressive.

It's pretty much a 3-and-D guy, for sure. And all these guys are really ahead of where even the most optimistic evaluators could have expected them. I mean, nobody could have expected Tatum to be this great, this soon. Nobody could have expected Oji and Anobi's shot to look as good as it did, especially early in the season. It's fallen off in the second half,

but he made pretty solid improvement, especially after his injury. You mentioned Zach Collins, Mitchell, nobody, nobody could have seen this coming at all. And hey, we were pretty high on it. We were. Number nine to the Knicks? Yeah. If I remember correctly, we were one of the first sites that ever had a ranking to the lottery.

I'm just saying. There it is. Nice. There you go. I'm just saying. I wonder, Tarks, is there anything, you know, from this group of rookies that are going to be in the playoffs that can be applied to this year's draft? Are there comparisons that you see with guys that perhaps next year will be talking about player

X in the contribution he can make to his team? This is a boring one. I already mentioned this, but like, I think Sterling Brown, to me, like, the value of a good, solid two-way wing on a rookie contract. Like, if I'm in the 20 to 30 range, I'm looking for guys like that because even on these playoff teams, like, how much could Minnesota use a guy like that right now to help with, you know, guarding Hardin? How much could New Orleans use a guy like that, to help with guarding Dame? These guys are just so valuable.

You're going to see more and more teams just like, it's all about finding wings late in the draft now. Because you find a guy like that, you can hit him on a four-year rookie contract. It's just so big for your team. Who are the wings that stick out the most? To me, I really like Raleigh Alkins. Hashtag Savage Life. He's got the NBA body.

He's a really hard-nosed kid. I think it's pretty good feel for the game. The question is the jumper, obviously. And my sleeper in this year's draft is Josh Okogi. The same kind of thing. I think Alkins and Okoge have those NBA bodies that can come in and play right away. Okogi, we have ranked. I have him 25th.

Danny, you have a 23rd. Charks, we have him 17th. As far as I know, I'm not sure he's ranked first round anywhere else, so we're all fairly high on him. I don't know if there's a lot of group think there. We've never talked about them before today. At least I haven't with either of you guys. It's just in the air at the Ringer headquarters. It might be in the air, but it's like you said, Charks. Those three indie guys are so critically important. You're able to plug and play them into virtually any type of lineup, any type of situation. And that's what we're seeing with some of these guys, whether it's Tatum, whether it's Ananovy, whether it's Sterling Brown, or even

Mitchell to an extent, even though he's a guard, he's super long and still can defend multiple positions. Or Ben Simmons, able to defend multiple positions. Anytime you're versatile, it's a skill that allows you to get on the floor early on as a young player. And that's the key is getting on the floor. It's like getting a coach to give you minutes, especially if you don't go to like a bottom 10 team, that's like the number one thing is like, will your coach trust you to play? And what's going to happen is if you play good defense and you can switch screens these days just about. So if a guy can't do, that's hard to get minutes.

Quickly. First round playoff predictions. Curious what you guys have. Who's going to win the first round? Danny, let's go with you first. I'm kind of going chalk. I'm a bit of a boring guy. Raptors, Celtics, Sixers, Cavs, Jazz, Blazers, Rockets, Warriors.

No upsets. Give us one non-chalk pick, though. So right before this podcast, I saw a tweet that said, Kauai was going to play in the in-game one. I completely fell for a Bleacher Report retweet that happened in 2000. So I was going to be like, oh, yeah, you know, Spurs are going to do it.

You know, Justice for Chase Serrano. But I really think the Warriors. You said Utah, right? Yes. So, actually, you do have one, quote unquote, upset the five of the four. Oh, okay. So one. Does Utah have home court in that series?

No, they're the five. Utah. Oklahoma City's four. How about you, Charks? I'm thinking for my non-shock one, I'm going to go with New Orleans. I want to see. I think Anthony Davis, man. I'm ready for just like the year of Anthony Davis to go skyrocketing.

I don't think Portland can guard him at all. He could put up some absolutely insane numbers. That to me is the most fun series of the first round. I can't wait for that one. So you have all the favorites in the East, Houston, Golden State, Oklahoma City. I want to, I'll take Milwaukee, just take Janus, whatever. That's fair. I have Toronto, Boston, Philly, Cleveland, Houston, Golden State, New Orleans over Portland,

then Utah of Oklahoma City. I think that New Orleans... Oh, Utah of Roke-C. That's interesting. I think that New Orleans Portland series is fascinating. That to me is the most interesting one of the first round. Drew Holiday. Rajan Rondon. Playoff Rondo.

Playoff Rondo. I mean, completely forgot about that. Playoff Rondo. I mean, against Dame Lillard and C.J. McCollum, that's going to be tough. And who stops AD,

like you said, Sharks? That'll be fascinating. Let's go, Zach. Let's go, Zach Collins. Isaac, before we get to grades, who's going to win it all? Who's going to win it all?

That's a good question. I believe this year, I would bet the field against a Golden State Warriors Cleveland Cavaliers finals. I would bet the field. Me too. Interesting.

I think I'll take Golden State Cleveland again. I'll be boring. Isaac, you get some grades for us? Of course I do. Let me start with Danny Chow. Welcome back, first of all. Thank you. I hope you had a great time in the mountains. I would like to nickname you today, Conspiracy Chow, because you called Mobamba a blog boy. And your concerns with him were about whether he is too smart or something, like if he's analytically obsessed. I really enjoyed that take. Also, your contrarian apathy towards the Rookie of the Year debate. I do think that these guys should be fighting to get their bonus in their contract and getting that money. But I still appreciate your apathy, so you get an A for apathy. Yes. I talk about alliteration these days. It seems like.

Yeah, you know, I like to make things poetic. Moving on to Jonathan Charks, you're in Portland, Oregon for the Nike Hoop Summit. Offair, you told us that you went to the Nike employee store. But to my knowledge, you did not get me a pair of kicks. Therefore, you get an F. That's fair. They're actually really cheap. I should have got used some shoes.

Come on, man. You have my number. You should have texted me. You should have called me something. I think my credit card's maxed out That's a good excuse Oh man Kevin O'Connor

You padded your own back For last year's Donovan Mitchell evaluation I batted all of our backs, Isaac Yeah exactly I like that pride that you have in our draft guide It's really admirable I'm gonna also give you an A And that leaves Charks

The only one failing today's class To think I called in from I could be in Portland or not The Port of Zoo I'm hearing of this podcast Getting asked Well, that was fun. Jonathan, thank you for joining in from Portland.

Go enjoy the Portland Zoo. It's great, man. All right, y'all. Danny, Isaac from here in beautiful Los Angeles. Have a beautiful day. Thank you. Thank you. Before we go, quick PSA,

did you know that rating the Ringer NBA show five stars on iTunes is proven by Ringer scientists to improve happiness by 6.9%. It's amazing. So please do that out of the kindness in your heart. Thank you. Our music is provided by the band Oso.

Oh, so. go check them out. They kick ass. They're fun. And for extra credit, please check out the ringers 2018 NBA draft guide at nbath.n.com. Special thanks to Elon Musk for being a great friend, a huge NBA fan, the best dunker I know, and a lawyer listener of the show. Hopefully he joins us in the future. Tough guy to nail down, but I think we'll get him eventually. Most of all, thank you so much for listening. Have fun living life and watching NBA playoffs this weekend. Peace out.