The Ringer NBA Show - Dissecting the James Harden–for–Ben Simmons Trade Rumors. Plus, Scuttlebutt From Around the League. | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 7, 2022

It’s trade season! Logan and Raja talk about the rumors swirling around a potential James Harden–Ben Simmons trade (0:30), including the little details of Harden’s behavior that indicate something might be going down. Then they talk about the whispers about the Knicks wanting CJ McCollum (28:30), and the Caris LeVert–Ricky Rubio trade (36:00), before Jomi comes on to express his excitement about Liz Cambage signing with the L.A. Sparks (38:35). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Jomi Adeniran Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ring your Gambling Show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays, to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the Ring Your Gambling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping? Real One, Slugan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. Right, right, before we get to anything, I have an early, Rowan of the week candidate. I don't know if you're watching billions right now.

You're coaching basketball. I'm behind. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. I'm a little behind right now. I'm just, nope, nope. All I'm saying is all I'm saying, no, no. This is vetoed.

This is partly your pod, partly my pod. And right now, my part of the pod is saying no. So now I can't just talk. I just can't stand Chuck Rhodes just once. Just say he's ruined a week. That's all I can, that he's an early low-lo-week candidate. You can go to all I'm going to do. That's all I'm going to do.

I don't know if you're a Chuck Rose stay. Are you a Chuck Rhodes guy or are you a, or are you a, uh, are you a Auxera guy? Like, what are you? I go back and forth. I can appreciate all characters in that, in that show. They're real talk. All characters in that show, I can find some level of appreciation for. Okay.

That's all. I just wanted to say that, you know, I watched last night's episode and that Chuck Rhodes is an early Rowan or a weak candidate. I don't know. Rowans don't, don't pull beyond that. Don't do that. I'm just saying Chuck Rhodes is out here and he's not fucking around. Let's keep it in New York.

I'm going to talk about the Brooklyn Nets. Let's just keep it in the, and the, in the in the um in the Atlantic northeast with the Brooklyn Nets and the in the in the Philadelphia 76ers um James Hardin depending on who you ask wants to go to Philly and I would like to say this I know this is getting a lot of steam right now. Um there have been rumors that James Hardin has been wanting to go to to the Sixers since like November since for for a for a few months now um either. by, you know, what I've been, you know, what I, I remember when I heard it for the first time in the fall where they're like, hey, you know, you know, you need to keep an eye at on James Harden. I'm like, why would James Harden leave? And they were like, well, he doesn't want to be in Brooklyn. And then it's like, well, where would he go? Philly. But, you know, their cap situation, no, he can go for, even get a signed trade, all the stuff. And now it's kind of reaching a fever pitch because we're in a midst of a trade deadline. Some people are saying that the Sixers are open to this. Some are saying that your boy, Steve Nash, friend of the show, or acquaintance of the show, said that James Hardin is not getting traded. But I don't know, man. I'm trying to cipher through all these things, man.

And I don't think, I have a hot take, Raj. And I want to get your opinion. I don't think at this stage right now, with what James Hardin has showed me over the last couple of years, I just, I know the talent is there. I know he's an MVP candidate, but I just don't know if this is the guy that's worth all the trouble right now, considering what we've seen from him the last couple of years. We talk about the ice ball in Houston or in Atlanta a couple years ago during the pandemic, just trying to get his way out of Houston. And then now, I just don't know. Am I wrong on this? Where is James Harden?

Are you wanting to just empty the whole treasure chest for James Hardin at this very moment? No, that's not no. I mean, we can talk about skill level and the point of his career that he's in. And I can't remember a star in the peak of their powers, like the height of their prime, kind of falling off for a few years, and then having a bounce back as they got older. Like that rarely happens. We could talk about all of that.

But I think the more important issue when it comes to James Harden is, is whether or not, like, he is going to be the type of influence personality and culture driver that organizations need him to be. Yeah. Like, whether he's fully invested the way he needs to be, right? I'm not even, this is in locker room, behind closed doors, what you're getting out of him in terms of a role model for the younger players in your organization, what that does to the spirit of your franchise, man.

Like, I talked to a college coach last night, and he was talking to me about his team and where they're at and they had brought in all these players via the portal. And what they found out was a lot of these players didn't fit the culture. And basically he was saying, we need better people. We need better, you know, influences. We need people that police each other. We can't be doing that as coaches. I recently had an issue with it on my high school team.

And so that's what I worry about now with James Harding. And I think it's fair. So I think your reservations about trading the whole. you know, unloading the cupboards for James Harden at this point, not just from a skill standpoint, from a professional standpoint, you've got to be concerned. You know, because when I think about James Harden, I think about a guy that's really good, really, really phenomenally good. I've seen him playing the postseason in Houston and seen him throughout the years. But it's funny because let's go back and let's look at his trajectory

in Brooklyn. He gets there after forcing, his way there. We made, we made the jokes about what he, what he was trying to do, what he wasn't trying to do, how we basically quit on the Houston Rockets throughout in that last, his first few weeks of that season. It was a 20-21 season. He basically, he was throwing past that dudes, ankles, the Marcus, his, the Marcus' cousins was like, yo, what the fuck? What are you doing? Right. And then, you know, he forces his way to Brooklyn. And then, also went to Houston out of shape and then came by extension going to Brooklyn out of shape. And then, you know, he gets the stuff together.

He's wildly loud as like the adult in the room, which is, you know, that's interesting when you have a locker room with Kevin and Kyrie. He's the one that's the steadying force. Then he gets hurt. Then Kyrie does what he does. He's just like, well, I'm just going to, you know, I have a hand injury. I remember I was in San Francisco. Steve Dash is like, yeah, he has a strained hand

and we're like, okay, okay. And then we're kind of starting to see that now. I can't say for sure that he's quitting on his team, but we're getting this stretch where he's just playing like shit right before he can get an opportunity for him to get moved. If he, okay, so let's say he does get traded to Philly. Does that mean that, you know, Phillies, he's just going to, oh, I'm just going to get my stuff together.

How long is that going to last? How long is that going to, how do you, if, Let's look at this from the Philly perspective. How would you feel taking on a James Hardin if you do trade for him? First of all, I would depend on what I would have to give up. I mean, if you're giving up Ben Simmons and something that doesn't break your back with Ben Simmons to get James Hardin, I mean, you're not getting anything out of Ben Simmons, and that relationship is a shit show anyway. Yeah, we'll get to that in a second.

Yeah, I better make the argument, though, that in that case scenario, let's roll the dice. Let's see what it looks like. You know what I mean? Yeah. James Harding, I still believe, is a really good player, although his numbers, he was shooting up. Last time you shot this poorly was his rookie year. It just doesn't look the same, right?

But I still think he's a good enough player. Like, he's super talented with the ball. I just, what you're describing and what you're worrying about, when someone can, when, you know, I tell my kids this about some of the children that wind up on like nine different travel teams around here and can't stay in a high school and they're at seven different high schools. and when you ask them why, they've always got, well, you know, I was there and

and this happened and then you're like, okay, well, what happened the next time? Well, same kind of thing happened at the next stop. And then I got sideways with that. What happened at the third stop? Well, you know, my dad didn't like, that shit ain't everywhere else, bro. That shit is you.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? When that same problem or you have beefs everywhere you go and the narrative is the same no matter where you've been and you got to keep it moving, it's on you. And so that's the question like when you're Philly, if you're asking me, like I would be worried about James Hardin to the point I made earlier, being 100% invested

in trying to be the best version of himself and the best thing for our team in whatever capacity we ask him to be as a basketball player. And his track record is now starting to suggest. And I like James Hardin. I've got no beef, but I'm just going off of what I'm watching. Like that track record has started to suggest if he gets sideways or he gets a little disgruntled that at minimum, he doesn't really conduct himself hella professionally. Is that fair?

That's pretty fair. I mean, I feel like the track record speaks for itself. I mean, even when the I think the biggest thing that we saw was that when he went to Atlanta with a little baby when he was in the middle of like a, when he did a middle of a trade demand, right? Like, what does he do? He's not working out. He's not with his team. He's not doing these things. And there's other ways to do it. We've seen this. We've seen so many trade demands that have

gone, you know, public and all these things. But when you go out and you kind of just like, just basically throw the middle finger at your team when you're out, out of the bow while they're in training camp. And then you come in when you're demanding the trade, just throw balls at like people's ankles and just, and this is, and this is Houston. Like, I don't know if you've been in Houston during the James Harden run, but like, that's his city, man. That, that's, that, that, that fan base loves him.

And then when you do that, it's kind of whack. It's pretty whack. My question, though, to you is, how do you, when all this leaking goes about, right? And there's also, you know, there's a Kyrie element to it. We've already talked about that. You can look in the previous pods. But say if all these rumors come to a head and then trade deadline comes back and he's still in Brooklyn, how do you salvage this as a team?

What do you do? No, no, no, no. You don't wait that low. You don't. If you're broken out. No, you don't roll the dice. on that, though, these conversations, there need to be Steve Nash, Sean Marks, Kyrie Irving, James Hardin, and Kevin Durant in a room today.

Tomorrow. Should have been yesterday. It should have been yesterday. Yes, correct. And we are talking through this and hashing this out, right? Because as terrible as this sounds and as bad as I feel about saying it, if they fuck this up down the stretch, heads are going to roll in Brooklyn. Somebody's head is going to roll.

trust that. And so I'm not leaving that up to chance. I'm not leaving a character like James Harden in this weird, maybe we're trading you, maybe you're not, subliminal messages have led us to believe you want to get out of here and you're not giving us everything you got. And then we're not going to trade you, but all of this is looming over us. And now we expect you to be the best version of yourself. Hell no.

No, no, no, no, no. Like, you have to make sure that everyone is on the same page right now. Let's bear our souls. I've told you about a conversation I've had before in a room with a head coach and a general manager. Two of us were telling the truth. One of us was lying. Somebody paid the price for that at the end of the day. It was me.

Like those are not helpful conversations. Let's just bear our soul. Let's be brutally honest about where we're at. If it's not working, now we can pivot and try to figure something out. But if we're in here lying to each other and all of that, that's not the conversation we need to have. We need to have the real, the big boy convoy, hey, dog, this shit ain't working. I ain't happy on, like, the way you're fucking handling that.

I thought it was going to be something different. If that's the case, I don't know. Or, like, listen, dog, like, I'm straight. This shit has just been a mess, man. A lot of unforeseen circumstances. Like, we caught some nasty injuries. Like, I'm straight. We're going to be cool down the stretch.

I'm in. Like, and then we're good on that front. But that's what has to happen. I'm not rolling the dice in this gray area if I'm Sean Marks or Steve Nash, because heads will roll. Yeah. And it's just, also, we feel,

well feel for Steve Nash in this scenario. But if this shit keeps going and if I was a general manager, you know, I'm not a general manager. I'm not even close to being up in that room. But if I was doing that, man, if this is what is going to, what is happening,

I trade Kyrie and James Harden and just like build around Kevin. You can get, you can get, if you can give value for those two people, just trade them. Why, why would you keep them around? Clearly, they have both not worked out here. Who was the only the person that has worked out in this, in this whole scenario.

Who was the one that's played the best? Who was the one to put the team on his back? Without the BS, without all the stuff, without all the... Who's the one that's done that, Roger? That's facts. Who has been the least bit of headache since he's been there?

Oh, it's facts. I mean, yes. And the best player on the team consistently. It's not even, it's not even an, there's no argument to be made. I feel like that's, that's, especially when we're at this thing where we're just being very, I just feel like this is like a very passive aggressive,

roster, right? We clearly know where the answers are. Either James, buy in for the rest of the year. This is the utopian view. James, buy in for the rest of the year. We'll give you a sign and trade if you wanted. If that's what you want in the offseason, we'll give it to you, right?

Just buy in right now and we'll figure it out. Kyrie, go get vaccinated. Just go do it. I don't care about all that stuff. Just go do it because we need you in this locker room to win a game. And then we'll figure all that out in the offseason. culture culture is about people we have verno on the other day remember we talk culture about the

memphis grisleys and he said it's about the people and he described the type of people that they go after so that's why he wasn't concerned about the pieces they would bring in via trade if there was one because he felt and had the utmost confidence that the grizzlies vet those people properly so whatever they bring in would fit the culture it's the conversation i had last night with my friend who's a coach it's a conversation i had with one of my buddies who coached which is with me. Brooklyn Nets have a culture driver, in my opinion, in Steve Nash, and Kevin Duran. But, and the best way for me to put this, the fair way for me to put this is,

their stars are difficult personalities. It doesn't make them bad dudes. It doesn't make them bad teammates. They're difficult at best personalities. And so you're going to have difficult problems. There's always going to be some shit. Those aren't laid back. Let's go to work, hard hat.

We're here to win a chip. Fuck the distractions type of people. None of them are, for the most part. Not even KD. KD doesn't even roll like that. And I love KD. But he's got more to him than your average, you know, superstar, right? For sure.

That's fine. But you can't have three of them. Oh. That's a mess. And so it's what I said when at first, you know, when they got all three of a man, I could see a beautiful scenario of just, like orchestra level, every instrument playing this beautiful music and it all coming together, offense.

But I could also see a train wreck of personalities where nobody's got no brakes. You know, everyone's trying to be in everybody else's lane. And, you know, that would be an unfortunate mess. And that's where they are right now. Just a mess, you know, and again, the mess doesn't start on the court, Logan. Yeah. The mess, the mess just trickles down to the court.

I always tell you, dysfunction starts at the top. I'm not blaming Steve or Sean Marx or anything like that, but it starts outside of the court in the building with the shit that's going on that's looming over everybody's head and all the questions and the media now getting whipped into a frenzy because of it. And now we got a, now we got a fucking O&A skid. You summarize that beautifully. Now, I'm not talking about games when I ask this question,

but when you have three number one personalities, because they are number one personality, not get a twisted. They all three of them are. You can make the argument if they're number two or number one games. What are the pros and cons of having three number one personalities on one team? And how is that even sustainable? Because history suggests it's not.

When you go from the Kobe and Shaq, even when you go for the Warriors, even when you go, just down the line, when you have two, if you have two number one personalities, it's hard. Would you put in three in that mix? It's damn near impossible to sustain long term. It's never worked. One of those personalities has to be mature enough to relinquish his number one personality for the betterment of the team, for the greater good, if you will. Miami had two people do it.

Miami had Chris Bosch do it and Dwayne Wade do it. Dwayne Wade was mature enough to come to LeBron after season one and say, hey, this has to be yours. This can't be like hours. It's got to be yours. And then, you know, we can go. And then they took off, right? Like there has to be a clear.

And when I was with the Cavs, Kevin Love gave up a huge chunk of himself. Never been the same in my opinion, like as far as being a pro. Like, but sacrifice nonetheless for, for, you know, he got paid, but still sacrifices were made in terms of the trajectory of his individual career to make that work. I don't know that Kyrie was Kyrie wasn't who he is right now because he was still relatively young, right? Coming off some injuries and stuff like that and so he was figuring it out.

But again, sacrifices had to be made. And so the short answer to your question is that doesn't work. Three number ones does not work. It does not work. Someone has to give up that number one mentality for the greater good. This is all interesting. I can't wait for the Thursday show

because we'll get to the, other side of this. Let's take a quick break and I want to talk about the other side of these trade rumors in Philly. Ra, wanted to talk to you about the other side of these trade rumors in Brooklyn and go to Philly. Let's take a trip to Philly. Let's get some cheese steaks. You know, what's your favorite cheese steak spot? Put it on there. Where you go when you go to, when you touch down in Philly? My favorite cheese steak spot is Ishka Bibbles on South Street.

Okay, okay. I mean, there are a lot. People get into, you know, pets, Ginos. All of that. I'm not just up throwing any shade. I think they've all got their own, they've all got their own little flair, and it's all what you like. But I like Ishka Bibles, man. I like the nostalgia on the walls.

I like the picks. I like being on South Street. And then I just like their sandwich the best. Okay. Okay. You know who will not be getting any cheese steaks anytime soon for the F? None of the Ben Simmons right now. How you know, bro?

That man might be out there right now. Nah, I don't think he is. I think you might get one of the homies to go like, hey, yo, give me a cheese day real quick. And could you just go drop off? So Ben Simmons isn't built to be like walking the streets of Philly, despite what's going on right now? You had to be a wild boy to be doing what he's doing and walk those streets specifically. Well, if you read Ramona's piece, Ramona Shelburne's piece on ESPN, you will see that he is not leaving the house or the facility ever. Either he's going to one or the other.

He's been, um, I feel like you could do that like in Phoenix, though, like in Phoenix, though, like in Phoenix or. or, you know, other markets like Milwaukee or, and it's just me. Like, you could, you could be doing what you're doing to the franchise and still be, like, walking the streets and be okay. You can't. You can't. You can't. Do you get to Philly?

No. What's Philly like when you demand a trade? Like, when someone demands a trade or, like that, I don't know. I know. I know what it's like walking the streets when you're not playing well. And then that's a whole, I mean, we're talking about two different levels. Can you hide? And could you, like, what could you do with, when you're, what could you do with, when you're,

up in Philly. When they do not, when they deem that you're fucking up in Philly. What can you do? Not a cool place to play when you're not, not a cool place to play when you're underachieving or, you know, or just acting like a butthead or whatever. Not a cool place to be, man, like a great place to be when you're when you're working your tail off and you're kind of overachieving and all of that. But so, so there was a, there was a really good piece on ESPN Romano Schovern detailing Ben Simmons's side of the story. obviously he's going through some mental health issues and I want to give respect to that. There was some interesting anecdotes though where Simmons was not quoted into this, but it was heavily on his size.

Like, Ramona's been great on this, on the Philly Beat, getting people that are in within Simmons's circle. But one of the reasons why they say that Simmons is mad is because Joelle Embed blamed him. Or in his mind, he got blamed and along the lines Joelle Embediebne, him for, you know, his struggles last year. And he goes, well, I didn't blame you for the Toronto series. I didn't blame you for such and such as such as tit for tat. And when I think a whole bunch, I think when you talk about, and it's too far gone for this, but this could have been nipped in the bud a long time ago of all parties just got in the room and just hash their shit out. I think that this is just gone too far. I don't think that Simmons can go back. There's no way

he could go back to the Sixers at all. There's no way. I don't see this happening. What is the end point for this relationship between these two parties? I said that there was no chance that Kyrie Irving was going to be allowed to only play road games. I could not have envisioned a scenario in which the Brooklyn Nets were going to accept that. See how that's going, by the way. No, it's a train wreck.

I knew it was going to be a train wreck. But nonetheless, they did it. So I can't sit here and tell you there's no circumstance under which I could see Ben Simmons returning to Philadelphia. I can't say that anyway. You could never say never, I guess, is the lesson there. I'm going to say it for you, right. It's never going to happen. It would be very, very, very difficult for me to envision Ben Simmons back in Philly.

And I did not read Ramona's article. So I don't know what type of mental health issues he's struggling with. Clearly, like, you know, it's a real thing. and I hope he's getting what he needs from his time away. That's going to be independent of what I'm about to say right now, though. Like, if you are the type of dude who is all up in your feelings and been out of shape

because you felt like someone blamed you for a loss, then you ain't built for this shit. Point blank, period. So all I can tell you, dog, like you could be a piece of a team. I wouldn't trust you to be a made. major, major contributor on a championship level team because your skin's got to be thicker than that homes.

Like you can't, that's not the way this works. People get sideways all the time. Great players, you know, it comes with the territory. Man, you think Kobe and them do is like, Kobe caught blame? Like Shaq caught blame. Stevie caught blame. Tim Duncan at times caught blame. Now, they're all different personalities

and some of them had more of the benefit of the doubt with media than maybe Ben did. But the point is when you're a great, that kind of like or not a great I shouldn't I shouldn't say that but when you are a really really good player one of the best on your team where winning and losing

kind of hangs in the balance because of you you have to accept some of that now you know if it really bothered you if you are built like that you pick up the phone yo Joel what's up like you got a minute we need to catch up dog like

you know here's how I felt about that yeah it's relationships man like it all boils down like I hate to dumb it down But it's about relationships, man. And what are we here for? Maybe we're not besties. Maybe we're not, but we're coworkers. And we both got the same goals.

And so to get where we're trying to go, we need each other. So let's get this popping. Like, let's figure it out, man. Shit, no, I'm cool. Do I mean it like that? I'm just saying, like, you know, they asked me a question. I was in a moment. Like, I said some shit, but you know how I feel.

Dog, it's all love. Like, those are conversations that are really easy to have. Yeah. I say you're not built like that because it seems like from that, description of the incident. You went home, you sat, you stude, you got all up in your fillings, and then the next thing you know, you're telling people you don't work there anymore. And I just feel like when you see Simmons's side of the story, and I do think it kind of falls flat from what I'm about to say, but when you do read his story, he sees from his vantage

point that, you know, Joelle Embed is cool with Darry and they have hit it off, right? Joel Embed is cool with Doc Rivers. They have hit it off. And there's a big, well, what about me energy going on right now? When you read the reports based on what's going on, that Joel, and this is something that's always kind of lingering. And I don't know, I don't know the relationships. I don't know all these things.

I don't know. I'm not intimately in that locker room. I can't really speak. I can only go on based on what I read. And what I read is it seems like a guy that is feeling. was left out of the proceedings. And I don't know if that's fully true or not because also based on what's reporting, Doc Rivers, you know, this is also a Ramon's piece, reached out to Ben Simmons.

Ben Simmons not answering the phone, right? Trying to see maybe walk back his words of what he said. That's, and you see all these things. And I don't know. I think everyone just needs a fresh start in all of this. And if Simmons, I don't know how Simmons would feel that way, but I think he needs to to get up out of here. And I think he needs to, I hope he gets all the helps that he needs. But it seems like this is just not going to last here in Philly because Simmons just doesn't

feel included in the proceedings, Rasha, is all I'm saying. Oh, my God, man. What you're describing to me is a nightmare. Yeah. All of that, oh, I don't feel included. Oh, they like him better than they like me. Nobody gives a shit. No, I care. bro. Like own your part of that. Like relationships aren't one way streets. You know, like you have to own your part in that. No, maybe, maybe Joel has a better relationship with Darry. Maybe he has a better relationship with Darryorne. And Darry has also been on record saying, hey, I could have done a better job reaching out to Ben Simmons. He said that in a radio interview a couple of years ago.

Fair, fair, but if you really desire that relationship, take initiative and work on it. Like if that, if that's what you want. And if you don't, then you don't. You don't. You don't. want to be out. And I'm okay with that. I don't think he needs to be in Philly anymore either. I'm not lobbying for that. I think Ben Simmons, I've said this before. I'll say it again on this pot. I think he's a really, really, really good damn player. I do. I've also said I worry about someone who seems to have the propensity to be easily shaken mentally when it comes to the pressures of playing a sport. Now, I want to be clear that this isn't a mental health issue with me. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not throwing any shade at mental health. But part of being able

to be a very good, dependable cog in any wheel where pressure is paramount in any industry, is your ability to withstand that pressure. And that is mental fortitude. And that is a big part of the job description. And so I don't think that it preclude you from being able to do that job if you can't withstand those pressures. That's not what I'm saying. but it puts you in another lane

as to whether or not we can really, really, really depend on your ability when that pressure escalates. And I think that's fair. I think everybody involved needs a new start, man. We'll see what happens. Let's take a quick break. I want to go through some other traits.

We are back. I want to talk about Mark Stein. O.G. Just gave a little tidbit of news. Steiny. Stighty. Friend of the pot. Talking about C.J. McCollum

and the Knicks' interest in him in a trade. I just, I feel like this is just a very, it would be a very Nix move to do, right when you guys are just like, you know, also would love to say the Nix are just like crumbling at the seams. This New York teams are just not popping right now. It's not going well for them. But to add C.J. McCullougham into the mix,

bad back and all, no defense playing, you know, great guy, but not necessarily like the player he was three, four years ago. For the Nix to go pursue him would be the Nixie thing of all time. What do you think about that and what that would do for the Nix, the NICs, the NICs Ascent or Decent? What do you think would that do for the locker room? For the locker room, probably he'd be a great dude for the locker room. Definitely. Because he's a great dude and he's a, he's a really good score. Unfortunately, you are correct in it being the Nixiest thing you could do right now for the Nix. Like they've essentially hit pause. Like, while they

have taken a step back. I think they were ahead of schedule last year, right? We talked about teams that were a little ahead of schedule. So you're just kind of paused if you're the Knicks, right? Like it gives you a little bit of a pass, despite what they're fan-based things. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you a little bit of a pass. And what I'd say is you recalibrate this offseason, you figure out the pieces and you tinker

around the edges. Do not bring in an aging smaller guard that doesn't really play defense. He's got an injury history and he's super expensive. don't do that. It's not the move. You're not there. You're not there to where that's getting you over the hump in any way, shape, or form. I don't even think he vibes with the way your coach wants to play. Like, like, you know, in terms of philosophy and stuff like that. And again, I think he's a coach's dream, but like Tibbs is tough, hard nose defend. And I don't even think it's a great fit. And so for all of those reasons, Logan, you are correct. I do not think

that is a move that the Knicks should make. I hope that. that the brain trust that the Knicks have in place now. I hope that they can see through that. And I hope this is just smoking mirrors. It's not the time. It's not the team for CJ. You know what I'm scared about with the Knicks? I'm scared that they,

that last playoff run was such fools goal, but they're just like all in and thinking that we need to do these pieces and it like talks them in and do it. They don't need to do really anything major right now. They just used to stay to course. You see RJ Barrett against the Lakers the other night? Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

What a player he is or can be, especially. He's going through some... But still a lot of upside there. Yeah. Dude, he's so good. He had a three to sit at an overtime. He's really good. Just chill out and relax. Just chill out and relax. It's hard to do that in New York. It's really hard. I know that. Just calm down. I think that they make gradual pieces. Am I right in that, Rah? You're right. That's essentially what I'm saying, man.

What happens, though, when we talked about Windows and this is a constant conversation on this pod, But like when you do exceed expectations like they did last year to some degree, it heightens the sense of pressure around, you know, your organization to win now. And you're just ahead of schedule, man. You still got, you know, I'm with you. I'm not going to just repeat everything you said. That's what they need to do. Just chill. Take an account of everybody on the team who's still an ascending player who's still got room to grow, who you're going to build around.

And then just keep tinkering and adding pieces around the edges in a responsible economic way. don't go out there and take a swing at a piece that's not really going to fit or get you over the hump. It's early, Roger, but I don't think this next thing is going to work out, bro. I don't think it's going to work out. I, it's, it's, you see that it's too early for these things to be happening. You see the Julius Randall blow up on the sidelines. You see just over, like there's not a gradual assent right now, man. They've had some good wins.

You know, they had the Celtics win. They have in Fornier game. But by and large, like this, team hasn't taken the next step in a time. I could compare them. It's funny that they played against each other in the last postseason. The Atlanta Hawks, and they remind me the Atlanta Hawks in a lot of ways, just in a bigger media market, where they got a lot of success maybe too soon, and they were filling themselves

a little bit sticking their chest out. And then it's like, but when you put the New York element into it, I just don't see it working out. I don't, I think that there's probably a panic, Julius Randall trade coming back. or something. This is all speculation, but it just seems like this is just a team that's just not going. I think it goes back to your argument of what happens in the building and the culture that you set up. We both know the culture in New York. We both know what's going up in the higher-ups. We know that, you know, you had every time the Knicks have done something good, they have self-destructed.

We talk about Donnie Walsh, you know, when he, you know, built a really good team, you know, getting around Carmel and Anthony. There was obviously injuries involved, but then dysfunction starts to creep back in. I see that here now. I don't, I'm not, am I, am I too harsh when I think about that? Or what do you think? I just don't see this working. Well, I can't, I mean, I can't say that. I could say where, why, I could say that I see why you would be concerned, right? Like, there's some concerning things, but I can't say that because if they don't panic and if they don't just start pulling triggers and throwing the proverbial stuff at the wall, I think you could be okay. I'm going to give you a list of names on that team.

So Derek Rose, Kemba, Alec Berks, Evan Fournier, and Taj Gibson, right? Like, those are all players on their roster with nine plus years of experience. That's your culture driving. Those are your culture drivers now. So if some of those pieces have to move and they don't. fit. My point is you have to start finding or continue to find a good balance of viable, productive, older players to mix with your younger coming into their own age younger stars. Because you have to maintain the balance. You have to keep those culture driving good dudes who

are pros. And they can't be so thin on the tread that they can't produce. That's the problem, right? Guys like to bring in a bunch of dudes who can't play anymore and expect them to change the culture of your locker room. Like, I used to have those conversations in Utah when, you know, they would ask me to like, you know, hey, man, we need you. And I'm like, hey, I try my best, but I don't play. You know what I mean? Like, I'm trying. But like, those dudes are looking at you like, you can't do this shit no more. So you have to find the names that I just mentioned those dudes who are still, like, that are productive and they can help you drive the culture. And then continue to cultivate, continue to find and, and develop your young talent.

I think the Knicks will be okay. So I'm not convinced that they'll screw it up, but they can't start to panic right now. Don't do that. Yeah. I'm just saying if history is a guy, this just doesn't seem like it's going to work out well. Ah, that's fair. I don't know. I don't know.

We'll see what happens. And you know that we reserve the right to change our mind, you know, and I am the first to apologize what I'm wrong. So let's go to Indiana real quick. Indiana. Seems like there's a fire cell going on over there, man. Indiana is there. It's the cardboard sign on the telephone pole on the Saturday afternoon for the garage sale, dog.

Come through. Come through. We got, we got, we got, we got, we got worn Air Force ones here. We got, um, we got shirts that are hammy down to the hammy downs. We got, uh, we got scratched PS4 discs. You want to take a flyer on them? We got grandpa's old. old barbecue pit, you know,

that just been handed down for generations of generations. This is a full yard sale going on right now. But the first thing, the first domino is dropping, honestly, it's probably, you know,

as we're recording this pod and it's getting edited, some more stuff could be happening. So, um, but Karras DeVird is gone. He's going to Cleveland, which interesting move for Cleveland. I don't know.

I think, I was listening to Simmons's pod. KOC brought up an interesting point, talking about how Karras is a great great score, but not necessarily, like, I don't know what else he can do for that team. He can score. I don't know if he can initiate offense. So I don't know if it brings them over the top in the Eastern Conference.

It's an interesting move. I don't know. What do you think on that one? No, I don't know what move you would have made for Cleveland at the point that they're in that gets them over the top in the Eastern Conference, save for a blockbuster move. This is a move that helps them, though. Yeah, definitely. This move helps them because it's an infusion of offense. And when you're bringing something in off the bench,

like, you know, there are different roles that guys have to fill different boxes you have to check. And one of those is an energetic, fear nothing, I can get a bucket on anyone type of score who can create his own shot. And he checks all those boxes. And, you know, that guy may or may not be hot every night, but he can get buckets.

And in playoff basketball, Logan, we talk about it all the time. Like, that's why people say, Golden State didn't need Kevin Durant. Well, no, they were winning and championships and stuff before, but they didn't have that dude that could just get a bucket and hear me. I'm not saying Karas LaVerd is Kevin Durant, but what I'm saying is sometimes in playoff basketball, you need a dude who can, you need multiple dudes who could just get buckets.

And he gets buckets. And so that's, you know, hey, if you're not giving up a lot to get it, I think it helps. I think it helps. I love this Cleveland team, bro. Shout out to Kobe Allman. Shout out to, you know. Shout out to Kobe. We need to call you all back.

All right. Before we get out of here, Roger, I've got a little surprise. The real ones out there. I just want to, let me set this up real quick. I was,

I was, chilling this weekend and got a text from this guy and one of the group checks that said that, Liz Cam Bage is going to the L.A. Sparks, damn it.

She's leaving to go to the L.A. Sparks. I've been manifesting this for years. This dude, L.A. Legend, always got his ears to the streets. And so I told him to come on and tell me why Liz Cambage is the greatest thing to ever happen to L.A. sports in the last, let's say, year and a half. We have our CMO Jomey. He has to get up out of here because he has agency.

He has other shows to do. He has things that he needs to do. He has to build an empire. So he currently has a minute and a half to tell me why, tell the real ones why. Liz Cambage is the greatest thing to ever happen to L.A. sports and the greatest show in crypto arena right now. What's you got for me, gentlemen?

Listen, I cannot tell you how excited I am to see Liz Cambage wearing sparks colors this summer, right? 16 and 8, automatic, automatic, right? Players with the Goumike sisters, right? Listen, I've been struggling to see good basketball at crypto.com. It's been a minute. Oh, Jeremy, the Clippers play. Nobody's talking about the Clippers.

They ain't got no banners. They don't count, right? Lakers been trash all year. I'm just happy to see good basketball come back to Los Angeles. Los Angeles, we should call it, in fact. Are you not entertained? Really? I mean, sparks are going to be contenders.

that's what we want. Everybody says basketball is better when the Lakers are better. WNBA is better when the sparks are better. We lost Candace Parker a couple years ago that stung. You know we thought should be an L.A. lifer. You know, that was tough.

And you know how L.A. does. We reload. Liz is here. Let's get it. Let's get it. Chip, it's been a minute since 2016. It's been a minute since 2016. But we're going to get another banner for the sparks. Let's get. Go. I'm high. Y'all not hype? I'm so excited. Let's do it. Me, Jemey, and Chase Charon are going to get a court side seats for her return to Vegas.

That's all that's going to happen. We're going to see what that happens. And, you know, just wanted to let that out there. We also got Kennedy Carter in the building. So just wanted to show that a little welcome to Sparks Nation for Liz Cambage. And that has been another edition of Real Ones, Monday Real Ones. make sure you check us out Mondays and Thursdays. In the meantime, make sure you check out Upside High with Jonathan Charks and Jake Howell Man. Make sure you check out Weekends with Waz.

Make sure you check out The Void. Bo on the Void! With KOC every Wednesday. Make sure you check out group chat. Make sure you check out Rogers is asleep, so I'm going up. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. Belayo legend, the crest eye clowns. So you see Sabathia.

You're still sleeping, man. Make sure you keep this propaganda going. Make sure you take out Black Girl's song, but with who? Rosseville. Town legend. The one and only Danielle Smith. We'll see you guys on Thursday. Talk some trades.

Hala.