The Ringer NBA Show - Does DeMar DeRozan Give the Bulls a Chance at the Title? Plus: James Harden Makes His Debut. | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

Logan and Raja check in with Zion Williamson after a vicious fat-shaming Mardi Gras float paraded through the streets of New Orleans (1:00), and they finally take the time to talk about how DeMar DeRozan has elevated his game this season with the Bulls and whether he gives them a chance against the best of the best in the East (7:00). Then they discuss James Harden’s mighty fine return to the court with the 76ers (22:00) and the first two episodes of ‘Snowfall’ Season 5 (34:00), before Jomi joins to express his rage at the Lakers (43:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Jomi Adeniran Producer: Sasha Ashall Associate Producer: Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Robin. Logan Murdoch here, Raja Bell there. We're potting. We're potting 1-15. 1-15, gang. We're all here. We're here ready to go. Raja, how you doing, buddy?

Good, brother, you know. Monday. Family got off the red-eye last night. But can we first talk about what was shared prepod with the float? And I just saw it. I just looked it up in a chat. The Zion-Williamsson float got put into the chat. Zion Williamson. That's reckless. So on Marty Grau, during Marty-Graw, Shout on Marty Gras.

I know what's popping down there right now. Anyway. That's reckless, man. They put a float of this band being, it says one ton and he's injured. It's a caricature of Zion Williamson. It's rough times in New Orleans. Yeah.

When the city starts to turn on you in such a short time frame, granted you've been injured for a lot of that, but when the city starts to turn it, and that could have been one off-brand float in a section of the, of the celebration that nobody saw. But like, the point is, when the city starts to turn on you, we got problems. David Griffin and company, we got problems.

That's not a good look. It's specifically in a place like New Orleans where clearly they don't care about the Pelicans. You go through New Orleans, they don't care. So if the only thing that they care about is they're just killing their franchise star, it's not good news for the team. Definitely not good news for Zion. I don't know, man. It seems like the, I don't have any reporting on this, but it seems like the days of basketball

in New Orleans are just numbered, right? Like, it doesn't seem like it can happen. It doesn't seem like this is the long-term marriage at all. Yeah, the days of Zion star shining brightly in New Orleans seem to be fading. Those are numbered. I don't, yeah, I can't see how that works. I mean, I imagine they got to do something with my man Griff

and it's probably could come down to they're going to have to pick between one or the other. Most organizations are going to pick Zion, but if I'm the Pelicans, I mean, and I know this wasn't supposed to be Pelican-centric, but let me do it quickly. I don't even know if that man is good. Like, who knows what he's going to wind up being because of these injuries and the weight issues? So that's an impossible situation. That's ugly. Now, we have stepped into the vortex, Raja.

We have stepped into Clairvoy and Raw. You've done this in the beginning of the season. you didn't put this on wax but you did say in the pre-pods in the beginning of the season about Lakers potentially trading one of their stars

months before the narrative came about trading one of their stars yeah we'll get to that in a second but here are you saying that the Pelicans should trade Zion Williamson right now are you saying that that's a thing

are you putting on your clarifying hat are you ready to put that on wax right now are you ready to go are you locked and loaded No, because, you know why? Because I don't think that if the Pelicans don't know what Zion is or what his future looks like, at least from a health standpoint, like, if there's uncertainty with the Pelicans, I don't, I mean, I don't know who else is going to be in the market where you could get a good return on that right now. I just don't know. So, you know, there's just too much uncertainty. There's been too little of a sample size.

There's been too, I don't, that would be a hard thing to trade for and a hard. hard thing to trade just because no one really knows. How does Zion get the people back on the side? What does he have to do? He needs to play and he needs to play well. That's what, that's, that takes care of everything, right? All of the shit, you know, athletes talk about, you know, fans and they get sideways with the fans and, you know what solves all of that?

You know, what solves the booze? It solves the narrative that you don't, you know, like reading about yourself. What solves all of that is, is playing and playing well and winning. It's also being around. Roger. It's also being around. He hasn't even been around. Nobody's seen him. Have you seen Zion in the last? I don't know where he's been. That would buy him some goodwill in the short term, but just, you know, I agree with you, right? So let me say that. But just being around, like you've been picked where you were picked, you were the future of the league and the face of the league moving forward. And you had this little flash, you know, when you hit the scene, just being around and not being available for two, three years, that's still going to get you looked that sideways. You got you got to get your ass on. court. Yeah. And it's funny, man, because we thought that this was going to be a, and this typically happens in NBA drafts. We thought that this was going to be Zion and Jodges, taking the league by

storm for years to come. One person is held up there into the bargain on that. But it's just, it's just, it's disheartening because it typically happens like this in one, two draft. Like, whenever we have a hype draft of a one and a two guys. We saw this with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant. You know, we saw this with, what, Markell Fultz and the rest of the draft class that year. It's disheartening, man. It's really disheartening.

I wish everybody could win. It doesn't seem like, but it doesn't seem like, at least in the start of his career, that Zion is winning very much. There's been flashes in a pan, but there hasn't been much else. It's tough. Yeah, it's tough.

There's no punchline of that. It's just tough. Tough. Agreed. And I hope he figures it out, and I hope they figure out how to get him healthy, and I hope his body settles in and he has a great career. But to this point, yeah, not so much. So let's go to a happier note.

Roger. We're going to do something that I like to do. You know, Logan apologizes. I'm going to apologize. I do this typically around this time of the season. Around this time of the season, and during the playoffs, I make these grand declarations to start the seasons. I make these grand declarations.

I don't know. I did this last year with one Chris Middleton. How many times did I apologize at Chris Middleton? How many times did I just go? Multiple. At least like seven, maybe? I appreciate that. I think our listeners appreciate that too.

I think neither one of us is really afraid to apologize you more often than me. Yeah. You mean, your feet just don't get held to the fire like mine do, but any who. We're going to stay in the middle. Midwest, and I want to make a formal apology, a formal apology to all my hit is everybody and the shy, all my Bulls fans. I apologize to you as a staff record label and a crew because in the beginning of the season, I put a ceiling on your greatness. Okay. I said that I don't know if you guys are going to make much noise in the Eastern Conference just because, you know, you guys just seem like a

feel good story that will ultimately get beaten by a better team. Comma, however, but, But one, and Raja, I just want to say this, Raja, he pulled my card in the prepod meeting today, as he does periodically throughout our time together. He pulled my card and told me about one D'Mar de Rosen. Raja, can you enlighten the folks on what you told me about D'Mar de Rosen and why my foot is in my mouth right now? Yeah, I mean, it was as simple as me saying that he,

is in the MVP conversation. I don't imagine he'll win the MVP, but it was as simple as that because he's got his team sitting second in the Eastern Conference right now, a game behind Miami. He's having a career year in what is this, his 12, 1, 2, 3,

like 12, 13th season. Averaging 28 a game. Just the 28 and change, the ball is his. I think that's interesting too. Let me just this thought. You know, when they started the season, it was kind of Zach Levine, DeMarterosen,

Zach Levine, DeMarter Rosen, DeMarter Rosen, DeMarter Rosen, DeMarter Rosen, Zach Levine. And they had a little bit of what the Celtics had going on for me, which I always say is hard to navigate. Like when you're not sure exactly whose it is, I think the Celtics have kind of figured it out too. And then the dial turned just fractionally to like this is going to be DeRosen

and Zach, you're going to be a really, really, really good supporter of DeRosen. So now, you know, DeMars got the buck. on his hand late in the games and he's closing and he's just had this kind of you know, bounce back, if you will, of a career. The Spurs, the Spurs study, they were talking about there was a rumor in Miami

that DeMarre Rosen was coming here for the mid-level. Now, I don't know that that was ever going to happen. That was going to happen. But the point is, that's where he was in his career leaving San Antonio, right? Because he was playing in, you know, in a situation that didn't really fit him. And so what he's done this year is just bounce back in a way that is really deserving of being in the MVP conversation.

And when you talk about, you know, MVPs and big awards and things like that, you're looking for moments. You're looking for storylines. You're looking for national attention that could support the case. And he's got all of that working for him. You know,

think about the records that he was just breaking and the string of games that he put together, the game winners on back-to-back nights that just consumed all of the, you know, national media and social media. I mean, he's got all of those. I still don't imagine he wins it. But, boy, you better put some respect on Damar's name.

Now, Two things on this. One, I think, when DeMar de Rosa's case, and honestly, and you can also make the, I would say DeMar de Rosen, and a lot of guys that play a lot of mid-range and they don't really shoot many threes. You know, there is, especially over the last five, six years, the league went away from that. And because the league went away from the mid-range, there was a narrative put on mid-range shooters that they weren't valued anymore, which is, in hindsight,

pretty stupid. And I think because of that, De Mardorosen was a casualty of that. He didn't, and he didn't, I think he was a casualty of that because he continued to play his game, which was effective for him, but because he played a mid-range game

And you had everybody saying, oh, we need three and D. We need three and D guys. You need to go to the corner and shoot threes. If you are not Steph Curry, you don't belong. And I think that he got, he got caught up in that. And then the second thing is he played in a market in San Antonio during a time where the spurs were on their way down. And if you ask anybody whenever the spurs came to town, they raved about how DeMarda Rosen had improved his game. had leveled it up to the point of he can shoot three a little bit better,

and he's a much better player than he was in Toronto simply because he's in that system. But we don't really see San Antonio during those times. And they were also going through a transitional period where they weren't going to Western Conference finals. They didn't have Kauai. They lost a lot of people. So you don't really see the maturation in Damar's game.

And so that's when you get the float that he's going to get the mid-level. Demardo's going to get the mid-level exception. No, I just, yeah, like that's absurd. To the point where that gets floated. And so I'm glad to see that he's balling. And another point on this, I think you brought up a good point about the Celtics and those two guys, Jalen and Jason. And, you know, we've been hard on him.

We had Jackie McDonough on. She was pretty hard on both of them as a tandem. But I think one thing that we're forgetting in this is both of these teams, the Bulls and the Celtics, are playing with new coaches, with relatively new coaches. Billy Donovan came out, came at 2020, fall of 2020,

and the Celtics have a new coach as well. That takes a lot of time to meld all those pieces together. So when you have those three things going for you, I think, you know, in hindsight,

it's 2020, you could see why Chicago Bulls can exist right now. And I'm glad that Demard de Rosen is getting his flowers and he deserves it. First of all, he does deserve it. Billy Donovan has, you know, people can say certain things about him.

I'm not going to get into all of that. But one thing I know for a fact, he is a player's coach. Like people love playing for Billy Donovan. And you could see the ease with which, you know, and the comfort that those guys have out there on the court. DeMarcozen is shooting career highs across the board. Field goal percentage, three point percentage, even damn free throw percentage. Like, he is having an exceptional year in that system. Now, we had to talk about the bull.

and I said on the pod that when they are right, if everything goes well, barring injury, I could see them pushing some of these teams in the Eastern Conference, right? Like the Milwaukee's. I think I may have changed my stance on that. I'm not as, I'm not all the way out, but they're like 2 and 12 this year

against teams above 600. Like, you know, and the Bulls. The Bulls, yeah. Yeah. And so while they will tear you up, if you are an average team to below average. They have struggled with the heavyweights when they played them this year.

And so that still remains to be seen, but that's not taking anything away. And in fairness to them, they've been injured. I mean, you know, Lonzo's been out. Caruso's been out. They've had a lot of people in and out of the lineup. And so maybe they do get it together. But I'm willing to adjust my stance just a little bit on that.

How long is it sustainable for tomorrow, do you think? Do you think he has that he will be effective? Because the thing I struggle, I think, with the Bulls is I don't know if it's a flash and a pan type year. You get what I'm saying? Where everything, one of the years, it has the feeling of like the everything goes right year. You know, the 2010 sons are a good example of that. The magnum opus of the we just all got it right year is the 2011 maps, where they just sweep through the playoffs and be a team because everything goes right. what is the sustainability you think of this Bulls team?

That's a good question, Logan. I don't think it's a flash in the pan, but I also don't think they're going to win a championship. I think they're here for a few years. And then, you know, as DeMar Rosen, as fantastic as this year is, once you start creeping up to year 13 and 14 and 15, you know, that father time starts to knock on that door

and you're not able to, 28 a game isn't really feasible, you know, anymore. Now, I don't know how much tread is left on that particular tire, but then it comes down to what the organization is going to do with the young pieces, what they can do in terms of bringing in more people who may be ready to win. We talk about that equation all the time, right? Like, you have to have these young, fresh legs, but you've also have to have people that have been through enough of the experience of the NBA grind and the playoffs to really produce when that time comes. So that becomes an organizational question as much as a player being able to sustain a question. but I don't think it's a flash in the pan. I think they could be here for a couple years. You think they're here for a good time, not a long time?

Good time. Yeah, I mean, I think you've got a window of time. You've got a three, four year window where you could be a solid team with kind of the nuts and bolts of this group, you know? It's funny because what I think about the Bulls now is what I thought about the Suns last year. And, you know, I was proven wrong on that, but I thought that the Suns were one of those teams where, you know, you got a guy like Chris Paul who's going to get them to a certain point. And they have, because, you know, at that point when you saw the sons, you know, you see that the, you know, the warriors are

gearing back up for a run. You see that we think that the Lakers, you know, it's just a bubble, you know, they're having bubble fatigue. So they might come back this year and win a bit. So that might cancel the suns out. That has not happened. But what I'm curious about long term with the Bulls is, we'll talk about this in a second too. The Sixers have revamped. Sixers look really good. It's only a small sample size, but they look really good. We don't know what's going to happen with the Nets, but shoot.

Kyrie bawled in Milwaukee, and we'll see what happens when Kevin's supposed to come back and within the week. And Ben Simmons is not far after that. I can't help but think, yo, this is, if the Bulls want to strike, they have to do it right now. Because there's no, like, there's no time like the president in general in the NBA. But when you have teams like that coming back and you still have the Miami Heat lurking, who I know you see in your backyard and you have Milwaukee and all these teams, you've got to strike right now. The Heat are the best team in the East.

They're the best team in the East. And I know everybody's going to be like, what, no shit. Like they're number one. I'm saying that from a team, not record-wise. I'm talking about team, coach, pieces. roles, you know, they do it the best. They have the best team, and that's why they then have the best record. But they have the best overall, well-rounded organization in the Eastern Conference right now.

The Star Power obviously lies in Philly, Brooklyn, and Milwaukee in the East. And, you know, catching any of them in a seven-game series is just a roll of the dice for other good teams. If you're not a good team, you don't stand a chance. Chicago falls into the good team category for me. They're teams that will make the playoffs that are not good teams. We can agree on that. It happens every year. Chicago is a good team.

But I don't imagine when push comes to shove in a seven-game series that they have the firepower. And I got to give you credit because you liken them to the Bulls with Derek Rose and young Jimmy Butler and Yalkeem Noah and Taj Gibson, right? Like that squad that was tough. You didn't necessarily want to play them. but you didn't necessarily think they could win a chip. This is kind of where I'm getting to, and when I said I have to take a step back, I think this team is there,

but then when I look around the reshuffled Eastern Conference, and you're talking about the moves that have been made, where some of those doors were slightly open, I believe them to have shut. Like that door on beating Philly now, we're going to close that. Yeah, let's close that. Let's close that, right? Like, it remains to be seen,

but I, too, agree with you. You put, you know, I've always said, Kyrie, we can talk, you know, about his, his, his, uh, you know,

quirks and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, it's playing on the floor, brilliance, Kevin Durant, is going to be a great addition. I think you're going to close that door as soon as you see that and it starts getting moving. And then, you know,

Janice is, so anyway, that's what I think they are. And I think you might have hit the nail on the head when you said it. That's kind of who they are. Okay. So I want to, I want to,

I want to give more like to, like, my opinion and I think maybe my pushback. I feel like, and this is Logan Rant time, we're ready to go. I feel like we give a lot of, and especially in the off season, we get a lot of credit to teams that are about to just be solid teams. Oh my God, they won the free agency. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my God.

We stand them. We stand them. Oh, my goodness. The Bulls are going to the title. Oh, my God. You guys don't understand. It's this culture where we feel like we, because, you know, we're in this culture where we have to outsmart everyone. Right.

And so there's always that team that we get every offseason that is like, you guys aren't, you guys aren't paying attention to this team to the point where that team becomes overrated. I felt that way with this Bulls team. Not that I didn't feel like they weren't good because I really do like this Bulls team, but for them to constantly be told, I'm getting told, you don't know what you're talking about. They're going to be a championship contenders. Like, no, they're a fun story. I think I like the guys on their team.

I really like Lonzo Ball. Really, we talked about Caruso at length. when he was a Laker, right? I like the players on their team. I like Billy Donovan as a coach. Do I think they're a champion immediately with this team? No. I just feel like we've just,

we always try to over-correct ourselves, and I think we just miss out on just saying, hey, this is just a solid team. It's a fair rant. I don't have a real good rebuttal for it. So I'm going to give you a shout-out again because I do believe you were probably right in your assessment of what that team was at the beginning.

I'm asking this glory, because I don't really have. I'm just going to bask in this. Do we have any basking music? Is there any basking music you can play right now, Sasha? Sasha, if you find any basking music in there, just put it along even as we're talking right now, because that's what I'm doing.

Grant him his bask, and I will speak a little more glowingly to accommodate the music. So while you are correct, Logan, and I do believe that you were probably closer to hitting the bull's eye than I would have been on the polls, I will just say this. We still haven't seen them for any extent, ended period of time with the full healthy roster.

So I'm going to reserve judgment. I still think they could be the thorn in the side of some really good teams. But I think overall you were probably correct, sir. I'm going to bask in this over the break. We're going to talk about the Renaissance of the Big Man on the other side. All right, Rob. So we got a text, me and you. We got a text.

I think it was yesterday. It might have been yesterday. I had text from Simmons yesterday. Um, there's a Tim Bond Tim's tweet talking about how James Hardin feels amazing. Feels great. He's feeling great. He's in the best shape of his life. I'm paraphrasing here.

He's best shape of his life. He's back to playing basketball again. He's ready to go. He's so happy to be back. He's, and he's playing, and I, and I, and I got to say, I've never, I have not seen James Hardin run a full sprint the way he did against Minnesota. Minnesota in at least a year. I haven't seen him. He ran, I don't know if you watched the game against many, but he was running a four or three. He was he was chugging that thing. He was,

he was, he was zipping it. He was playing phenomenal. I did not see, haven't seen that in a while. And it remains to be seen how long he will keep up that energy. But I want to transition that into playing with a guy like Joelle Embedde. And that would put a pep in my step because I haven't seen a guy play this under control and this dominant in a traditional center since since Shaquille O'Neal? Yeah, I mean, he's the best. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, in terms of just, in terms of just pure offensive weaponry.

And dominance, just, and he talks the shit that shack talks. Because, because, look, Yolch is a cold, cold dude, too. And he's got, it just, it's just, last week. I'm not just expecting Yolchish. It just looks different. So when you're talking about dominant, I understand what you're saying. I get it. Okay.

Let's, we can make the quick distinction here because I don't want to disrespect yoga. Physically, I think you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, correct me if I'm wrong. I think you are saying physically imposing his will, you can't do shit about the physicality and the fact that he's coming through your chest type of presence. Yeah. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying that yoghers don't do that shit. I saw him catch somebody on a seal and when he played in a chase internet. No, I saw him do it. I saw him do it.

But it was like it wasn't the same. energy, bro. Like, Embed is going to seal your whole life in the middle of the paint and say, just give me the ball. He's going to seal you for 10 seconds, and he's going to get the ball. He's going to dunk, and he's going to talk shit in your face. That's what I'm talking about. And then he's going to do the pick and pop, and he's going to shoot a three, and he's going to talk shit in your face.

He's just, that's what he's going to do. I like that shit. Remember we talked about earlier in the season where, like, I listen to high, I listen to music while I watch highlight. And you were telling me about You were telling me about Janus And how you got to listen to Annie up When you when you When you watch Janus highlights

Yep Or you got to listen to like some just real gutta-filly shit Some shit I ain't even heard of You gotta just listen when you when you when you when you when you when you when you When you when you watch him B play it's just it's just it's just it's just it's he's in just different About some old state property type of Some state property single So 80s

Siegel. Chris and Neef type of like, there's a scene and I don't know if you were really outside for this, but there was a scene in Paper Soldiers. I don't know if you watched Paper Soldiers. I don't know if he was outside for Paper Soldiers. But were you outside for Paper Soldiers? Yeah, but I did.

Yeah. Remember the scene where Beanie Siegel's in the barbershop and he socks the shit out of like seven dudes for like for, for just defending the honor of Kevin Hart. I just remember, I don't know if you were there. That's what that reminds. That's what he reminds you of. That's what it reminds me of every single time that Embed goes into the post.

That's what it feels like. I'm ranting right now. I'm going off on a tangent, but I do feel like we are in a special revolution of big man, and I'm happy to see it, Roger. I'm happy to see the evolution of Joel Embed to what you're talking about. My frustration with Joel Embed in years past was not the talent. I mean, that was oozing out of the pores.

Like you could see the potential, but I thought at times he drifted in years past. And, you know, even in years prior to us potting and I'd be on different platforms. And my beef would be, I don't feel like he asserts his dominance the way he could. Like with the things that you were talking about, the advantages and where they lie and and making the most of those almost at all times, like that's what makes you dominant. I don't have a problem with you shooting threes, but don't keep letting him off the hook. shooting threes when you know what I mean like if you come across a three because it's a pick and pop or you you caught it on a swing swing and you're squeezing I'm good with that but man if you got

if you can bully somebody and get us one do that and I felt like as a younger player he didn't do that as much as he could and so I am happy to see the evolution into what you're talking about which is a dominant big a virtually unguardable um big fellow who can do things athletically you know while he does not look like Janus and their build and their just general stride and movement is completely different. I mean, he's equally as athletic, bro. Do you see some of that,

you see some of that stuff that Big Joker does, man? Yeah, dude. And it's crazy because we're in a place right now. Remember in the 90s, Ra, where you get those Pat Ewing, David Robinson matchups, those David Robinson shack matchups, those Olajuwon, Shaq matchups.

You know what I mean? Like one of those where you just knew it was going, you got to bring your lunch pail. Back in the era where Tim Duncan was a power forward. Remember those? It seems like a long time ago. I don't know. It seems like a very long time ago.

Well, there's no real matchup. I mean, there's no real, real matchup for him out there physically like that. I mean, I just like the Janus. I like the Janus. and Bede matchups a lot. I do like, though. That's a fun matchup. Those are the ones.

I don't think Yonis has a great answer for M.B. down there on that block, though. Like, I, you know, but anyway, let me get into something else. Let me, can I change, can I change gears real quick? Yeah, get it good. Because I want to talk about how good, you talk about, you know, the brilliance of Joel Embedd. James Hardin is so good for Joelle Embed.

Yes. So good for Joelle Embed. and Bid because, you know, what was in question coming over to Philly was just where was James Hardin's head at. Like, and I think most of us probably felt like as soon as he got to Philly, he was going to be fine. Like, he just was kind of checked out on Brooklyn. And shit happened. So, boom, he's miraculously good. He took the, he took the hamstring heel pill and we're good to go, right? But his ability to, his ability to create, you know, or to just command eyeballs and orchestrate offense is going to get Joel Embed on top of the dominating you can't guard me one-on-one,

give me the ball, let me cook opportunities. You now just see him getting silly rolls to the basket, left and right, just opportunistic drops from James Hardin as the defense is kind of locked in on him. And Joel Embed just knows how to slide and get those buckets. You know, that changes everything because, you know, you can devise a game plan for James Hart. I mean, for Joel and B. Like when their offense is give it to Joel, let's get it to Joel, how are we going to get it to Joel? We're going to move Joel.

Like, I can watch enough film, but when you got, you know, James Hardin out there on the ball and Joel's over out of the float, and now he's sprinting into a pick and roll, now what are you going to do? What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Ah, damn, I threw a late lob to the rim,

bomb dunked. Like, that's just going to free up Joel for 10 easier ones a game than he ordinarily would get. It's funny because I see, And this is a wild thing I'm about to say, rather. So be careful. I think this is what I would have wanted to see, the evolution of games that I would have wanted to see

if Kobe and Shaq would have stayed, stayed together. And hear me out, because I know you're looking at me wild. I would have loved to see a 30-year-old Kobe play with a 30-something, like a prime shack, because cobe was still in the midst of he was a young guy didn't want it his own team we already know the story of that right and he wasn't as and we can both agree on this because you play with the most of his career Kobe was not as mature of an offensive player as he was later in his career that's no knock on Kobe that's more of just the fact that hey he just got better with time and he just knew more

about the game right i love right now seeing james hardin in his 30s playing against the with the Joelle Embed because like and at this stage of his career because he gets to have he's he's more mature of an offensive player because he's had those those he's had the my team I want my team era of his career already he's already had it he's already had that in Houston yeah didn't work out and didn't work out in Brooklyn but you could see the way he bro I just saw a small sample size um they played against the nix but only watched the game against Minnesota. I just see a pep in his step right now

that if he keeps this, the sixes are dangerous, bro. They're dangerous. Yeah, I think, I think, it's a good point on Kobe and Shaq. You're talking about points of career, of conversation.

You know, like, I talk about this all the time when you put players together, especially really, really good young players. It's like, you know,

they're not ready at that point to kind of give up part of themselves for the greater good. Everyone's trying to establish who they are, trying to be the face of the league. You know, you hear guys say all the time, I want to be the best to ever do it. Most of them feel like they have a shot at that. And so that's the quest early in the career. And then the winning, you know, kind of you mature into that. So I can agree to, you know, it would have been interesting to see if Kobe and Shaq had played together later in the career. I think, you know, Kobe and James two

completely different styles of play, though. So like Kobe wasn't just a pick and roller to death. I didn't mean it. I meant more so just the match for. of an offensive game. I didn't mean styles at all either. No, and I agree. I agree. I was just, you know, kind of picking at the bone there. But I do think, you know, the question for me was only what James Hardin was going to show up in Philly. That was it.

You know, I talked about it being a win-win. I still think it will be. I hope Ben Simmons proves me right. But from Philly standpoint, if you got a motivated James Hardin, and I couldn't understand why he wouldn't be, but you had to, you had to question it. You had to, you'd be silly if you didn't. But as a motivated player coming out looking refreshed the way he does, the chemistry being seamless or so it would appear, I do think they are very, very, very dangerous.

Now, they got to get more out of Tobias. They got to figure out he fits into that equation. You've got one of the best defenders in the league and Thibel. Maxi is a good piece. They've got really good pieces. You're going to have to figure out how you get something out of Paul Millsap, who you also got in a deal. Obviously very limited, like at this point,

but still you need production from those dudes in playoff series, right? You have to figure out around the edges, and this is where Doc Rivers comes into play. This is where Doc's got to earn his check. You got to get the most out of some of those other dudes because that duo of James Hardin and Joel Embed, James Hardin's never played with anyone as good as Joel and Bid. This is what we wanted to see at James Hardin and Dwight Howard all those years back.

This is what we wanted. Correct. Now, I want to be clear, like Kevin Duran. When he played with Kevin Duran, like James wasn't, you know, Kevin Duran, obviously is Kevin Duran. But James Harden wasn't James Hardin at that time, right? So while he's been at the height of his superpowers, it's the best player he's ever played with. And the same with Joel in. So that's his, man, that pairing is fantastic.

Doc's going to earn that check. He's got to put them boys around them in positions to supplement what they do. And they're as dangerous as anybody. I can't wait to see what happens. man. This is this, I'm really excited for this back stretch of the season, just that we can answer all these questions, man. It's a lot going on.

But let's take a quick break. We're going to talk about Franklin Saint. On the other end of the break. Let's get it. And we are back. Listen, Roger, you know we couldn't get out of here without talking about snowfall. All right? We got a lot back in. Franklin's State. Season 5, we're back in a bag.

All right. I got some quick hitters for you. I got some questions. If you guys didn't watch the first two seasons of season, Season five. You know what? Just take these spoilers because it's your fault. Come to keep listening. All right. I got some rapid fire for you, Raja. Now, we are in the season where everything is coming to a head. It seems like that for every season, but specifically this one, we are in the late 80s. Lin bias has just died. Len bias has died of a cocaine overdose, right? And we are back in a bag. We are here. Everything is closing in. Franklin is trying to leave the game. Allegedly, I don't believe he's leaving the game. We got Reed is back somehow

It's just a lot going on right here I'm just going to give you some rapid fire We'll go from that boy That boy said don't call me read You ain't got to call me read It's Teddy It's Teddy What does Mama call him?

What is his name? Let's go baby Is Mama call him Teddy? I'm gonna call him Reed Anyway I got some rapid fire for you man Now So Franklin has a new girlfriend

Veronique All right She's in real estate She's got her shit together. She's figuring stuff out. She's trying to get Franklin out of the game. Now,

I don't know. I don't, I think, I'm just really skeptical of her right now. There's shade there. There's shade there. More because, I don't know right now, she's really taking a hold of the whole organization, but more because Franklin has

a very terrible track record in pricking love interest. Yeah. His last chick shot him. his last chick damn near killed him. All right? Like, I don't, I don't trust his judgment in picking women. So my question to you is, is his new girlfriend a double agent right now, prediction time? Do you think she's a double agent?

Yes. If I had to pick, I would say yes. Something felt amiss. What felt a miss to you? Do you think it's because she took too much control of the organization? And she like, I think it was the end when she stopped and was like, I got this. We're going to figure this out. It was like, you're new here.

You don't even know the operation right now. You know, it could just be, it could just be the writing for me. And I don't want to talk shit about the show just because it was just there. And so it felt weird for me, right? Like, it was just there. And it was really integrated in the storyline. And we were talking about having family. And then the guilt trip about, like, hey, doing whatever you got to do to protect this family and your life.

But I'm always like, but you knew, you know who I am. Yeah. Like, you. We got a little bit of some power, too. We got a little bit of this in power. Yeah, like, that always used to bug me out too. Like, I mean, you know who I am. Like, you've been here from the jump.

I mean, she wasn't there for the jump. Yeah, it's like somebody saying, oh, Rod, like, I love you. We should just, you should quit basketball after you're, you know, you just quit right now. Like, you know, I was here. That's what I do. That's what I do. Like, Franklin Slangs that stuff, you know? Like, that's what he's going to do.

Yeah. So, yes, I do. I think there's something weird. I, I don't, I don't. I don't have, that's something to look at. Let's something to look at. I don't know. I don't know.

Now, this is a bit of easier question, but I don't, this is a two-parter. Did frankly make the right call? Easy answer. Did he make the right call pop in his home? Had to kill White Boy Rob. Did he had to kill White Boy Rob?

Had to kill White Boy Rob. But does this come to, I feel like, like maybe White Boy Rob's family is coming to get his ass. Like, that's just another unnecessary enemy. But like, I feel like you had to subtract, but I don't know. Is there repercussions on that?

Do you think there's repercussions? I think the repercussions are going to be interterm will with Franklin over having to do it at the end of the day. He had to do it, though. He had to do it, man. Once you went out there and homies, like, the dude who popped a kid at the party knew about Franklin's relationship with the feds and he was popping off at the mouth and then Rob couldn't stay out the pipe.

Like, you had to do it. It sucked. But I think Franklin is going to come back to haunt Franklin, what's a personal demon, if you will. That's where I'm going. Now, my guy who had, um, whose house it was, the guy that it was, it was Franklin's plug who was helping him out, who got, uh, Teddy got rid of allegedly. We don't, we don't know. We didn't see him get rid of them, so we don't know. But he's dealing with, with Franklin, like, he's having some

relations with Franklin's, um, I think it's a aunt or somebody, but anyone, someone within Franklin's inner circle. I don't know. I think that it, that can get a little messy, man. Franklin does not know how to choose his friends. I think that's the biggest thing. He doesn't know how to choose his friends. He's not a good friend chooser. Yeah, Franklin has some rider dies, but he makes some poor choices on some of those people. He never invest in his rider dies. Yeah, yeah. But, but that dude is gone. I don't know his name, but he's gone. He got poison, brook. Teddy, Teddy, Teddy handled that. Teddy did that. Teddy did that. And then said, hey, because he's so cold. Like, Teddy is nasty. Teddy hit him with just, just so you know, this is because

you were bad at your job. As the man is there taking his last breath, though, like, you ain't got to say shit. You didn't just killed him. Why, you, I mean, that's... I mean, Teddy is a sicko. He has to be a sicko to be his job. He has to be a sicko to do his job.

He's a sicko. Moving right along. You just said it. Teddy's going to take Franklin out, isn't he? He's going to. It's the late 80s. If anything talked about the late 80s, this is when shit gets cracked down.

And somehow Teddy is going back in his life. I just feel like, Franklin's going back to jail where he's going to die at the end of the season. It's over. Like, I don't think that this is, I don't think he's going to die, but I think it's over for Franklin's Empire. Because it's like, if we look at the timeline of the 80s, right, this is around the time where people were like, people were getting hemmed up. People were like, the law was cracking down. I love that they use Lynn Bias as a proxy for this because that's when shit started to hit the fan when you started talking about the crack epidemic and started selling, selling drugs.

People start cracking down. I think Teddy is not a friend of Franklin as much as Franklin, as much as he tries to say he is. Well, he said as much when he told him that the dude who he just killed was not your friend. Essentially saying to you, look at me, look at me in the eye, boy, I am not your friend. And I would just say, how many people from that error made it out of that? I mean, I guess if they were really good at it, they would have and you would have never heard of them. But I imagine it comes down to Franklin's, Franklin's. meeting one of those fates that

that you typically would meet in that line of work, you know what I mean? I'm here for the standoff between him and Teddy, though. Because Franklin was out of the game, man. Franklin had plans. There was a blueprint. I talk about that blueprint all the time with GMs and shit.

Franklin had his plans laid out. Yeah. He just made a couple bad trades, though. Made a couple bad trades. Got a couple signings that he thought was going to, like, you know, be loyal to that he should have just cut at the deadline. Didn't, yeah, no. It's tough.

It's tough. I mean, I did appreciate Rome and them out there on the horses. Like, you know, trying to move up out there. OG, Rome is out here. Rome is out here doing it. But here's the thing, though. This is my thing with this whole organization. I feel like Franklin is trying to put too much dip on his chip

trying to go downtown to get real estate downtown. Like, I get why he's trying to do it. but also I you're you're putting a lot of eyes on you that is not otherwise would not be on you by trying to do that just chill out and relax trying to break into circles that they don't want you in in the first place bro like that's how you get them eyes on you that's how you get them eyes on you Frank Lucas with it with the with the with the fur coat that's what's going to much um can I just say this because I know we can't be all like I do believe um Leon Leon is going to have a big there's going to be something with Leon man Leon's going to have a big. a big part in this storyline. I don't know what it is. I can't feel it out. Last question for this. And we'll get back to this. We're going to make a little recurring Monday's thing. Do you think Franklin's Pops is dead? Because we did not, is he dead right now? Very early. Is he dead? Yes. I'm going to go, no. I don't think he's dead. I don't, I don't believe anybody's dead until we actually see them die. We didn't see him die.

I like where your mind's at. All right. It's time for the, it's time here. It's time. Let's do the drum roll, please, because we got a man right now who hit me yesterday late into the night, said he had something on his mind. He was watching the Lakers play. He was very upset. He said, I need to get some shit off my chest. I am a mad Hooper right now. I am sick and tired of what's going on at Crypto.com arena. he says that they need to change it back.

But matter of fact, I'm just going to let him speak for himself. We got Mad Hooper Jomey in the building. Jomey, what is on your mind right now after watching the latest Laker loss? I mean, well, again, first of all, thanks for having me on. Always got to be on with you guys. To say that I'm Mad Hooper would be underselling it, Logan, I am pissed. Okay. You lose by basically 30.

to the Pelicans, right? Look, let me just be very clear. The Lakers are the worst team in basketball, like by far, right? You're like, Jomey, what are you talking about? There are only six games under 500. There are way worse teams and not only in the Western Conference,

but also in the NBA. Listen, Orlando has guys stoned off the backboard. You know what I'm saying? Detroit has Kate Cunningham, you feel me? The Lakers have LeBron James, but simultaneously don't have two brain cells to put together to play basketball.

23 turnovers? Are you kidding me? It's disgusting. It's embarrassing basketball. Worst team in the league to watch by far. They can't shoot worth

crap, right? They're just there vibing on the court. They don't run any sets. They're just there to collect checks, right? I have never been so disgusted to be a Lakers fan ever in my life. That's how bad it is down there. All right.

Listen. And I know everybody listening, y'all, y'all hate the Lakers. This is like, this is good for y'all. Y'all love this. And I'm happy for y'all. Enjoy this. This is as good as it gets. The Lakers are an embarrassment, not only to Los Angeles, not only to the state,

Just to just to basketball in general. It's an ice or I've seen better runs at the YMCA. It's all my Laker fans listening out there. Just stop watching. Love yourself. Do better, all right? When the Lakers are playing, go spend time with your family, right? Go talk to your kids.

Go to Santa Monica. Love yourself. Do better than watching that basketball. I don't even call it a basketball team. That group of 12 dudes who run around in circles collecting checks. No, no, no, no, now, now I have a question for you, Jomey. I have a question for you. I know Raj has a question for you, too.

Jomey, are you ready to, have you given up on LeBron as a Laker? He's been, he doesn't seem like he's locked in right now. He doesn't seem like he's locked into Laker Nation right now. He said some quotes. He tried to backtrack them, but what are the streets saying? What are the streets saying? I mean, the streets, you know, are just sick of the Lakers in general. In terms of LeBron, you know, we know, we know.

that he's, you know, the ticket to get him back. We just need, they got to figure out the roster. This starts at the tippity top. Jeannie, Rob, they got to figure something out. The rambi. Like, there's just, there's something going on there that's a disconnect

from how you're supposed to run a basketball team. And until we figure that out, you know, having a LeBron on the roster is a cheat code of saying, like, look, we're trying to win. But, nah, right? We still believe in Brian. We feel like given a little better team, we can be back in these conversations of like,

hey, we're a passable, you know, basketball team. But it starts at the top. LeBron, it could be freaking, you know, the ghost of Michael Jordan out there. It doesn't matter as long as that roster is the way that roster looks. I have a couple comments. Number one, struck me when you said they're just out there vibing. That's what it looks like.

It's what it looks like. It looks like you're just out there running around. Lake, just vibing. Not good vibes either. Just vibing. I felt awful for LeBron on the baseline. He had nowhere to go.

He realized that the weak side, the furthest guy away, weak side corner, defender was sealed inside the big. So that opposite corner is guaranteed to be wide open. Any shooter in the NBA knows that pass is coming down the baseline.

It's basically like a hammer action. where you come and you float down to the corner. Exactly. And Tailing Horton Tucker was going the wrong way, had buried himself on an angle where he couldn't get to the ball. I felt terrible for LeBron. You just opened up a whole new can of worms, Roger. I just felt terrible for LeBron.

Look, the DeAndre Jordan Pass was some of the wildest shit I've ever seen in an NBA game. He threw the ball essentially nine rows into the stands. Doug, you want to know how bad it is for the Lakers? They had to turn to the Andre Jordan for effort and help last night. You know what I'm saying? Would you turn to your 90-year-old grandpa for hoops help? No.

Now, I'm got it. They did it. But allow me to do this because I'm going to sneak in the shameless plug. While there wasn't very good basketball being played in crypto last night, there was some good basketball being played in the Los Angeles area because the junior Pangos All-American camp was being held in Long Beach. And one, and one Thai bell, six-grader classes. 2028 went to work

25 in the All-Star game, son. So you should have went down and checked that shit out, Jomey. All I'm saying, hey, can we get it to a 10 day? I'm saying. Langer said they need a point guard. You know what I'm saying? He can probably shoot better than anybody in the roster right now. Let's get it.

I felt awful that. It was terrible. I concur. It was just bad. It's bad. It's a bad basketball. It's bad. When do the sparks come back?

I'm ready. Like, let's get it, bro. Are the clutch check still flowing, Jomey? Is the clutch influence? How deep is the clutch influence in Los Angeles right now? Is it still locked in? Or is it waning right now? What are the streets saying?

What's going on? Well, you got to remember on Friday, McBride had a little something to say to a certain media member. Mr. Bill Orham, friend of the show. Yeah, it was, you know, and I'm not going to say that the Bill Orham pack went up, But on Friday night, it was a little, ah, it was a little grim for the old boy. But then LeBron came on Twitter last night and was like, hey, you know.

I don't know, no, I think he lit the pack. I think no, I think he lit the pack. I think he, it wasn't, I saw the tweet. I don't think that he, I don't think that he fully just put the pack out. Yeah. I took one last pop before he put it out, put it out. It was one last. Long story short, everybody was smoking that bill on rampact.

So the clutch influence is still there. the clutch check still cash now, right? Does that mean that the clutch influence has infiltrated like the Lake Laker Nation? I'm going to say no. But if you look in between Rich Paul and Rob and like, who do I trust? You know what I'm saying?

That's tough. It's tough now. It's tough now. You got to look, you got to be honest. It's like, ah, you know. Rich Paul wanted to be. get John Wall, his client, to LA to get some playing time, but at the

same time, we're looking at this Lake of Roaster, and we're like, Rob, what's going on? So, I don't know, man. We'll see. We'll check on you in a couple weeks, man. We'll just see if you're just fully giving up. Well, maybe a month or so to see you fully just get up. When is April?

I honestly hope the Lakers miss the player right now? No, I hope the Lakers missed the playing. I'm sick and tired. I just want to go to sleep. I want to enjoy my life again. I want to be able to go outside and see the sun and enjoy this beautiful Southern California. While I have you, hold on, while I have you,

we don't, we, Roger was not there, but Raja, we took, we got, we got Jomey to Chase Center about earlier this month. We got them out there, right? We got, we, we, we, we brought Laker Nation to the Bay Area. This is the first time I'm talking to you on the pod since then. Um, what was going on there? Sasha Mack was also there.

Laker Nation had definitely infiltrated Chase Center. Lakers had almost won. I saw Jomey. I had an eye on Jomey throughout the whole game. Just to see his reactions. And his emotions were up and down. Are you about that place right now where you were at Chase Center? Or are you are you up?

Where are you right now? Are you, where's, where's Jomey's psyche right now in the regards to Laker Nation? Well, actually, this is great because we get to be able to share this publicly. You took a picture of me. at the game. And that is exactly where my brain is right now. I'm waiting to go home. I'm like, hey, man, what time, what time the bus come, man?

Because I got to get out of here. I need to, I got, I got places to be. I got burritos to eat in the mission, you feel me? You know? I'll tell you some, though. Chase Center is nice. The propaganda is good. That bay propaganda is good.

Not for me, though. I'm loyal. I love who I love. But it's nice out there. But now, I'm checked out, it needs to be April. I want to watch real basketball. Let's go.

Thank you so much, Jome. We'll check on you when, hopefully the Lakers have been eliminated from left attention. And I can be happy again. Four Shizzle. All right. So that has been our Monday edition of Real Ones.

We are here Mondays and Thursdays. Check us out. But in the meantime, make sure you check out all our other shows. That's upside high. that is the answer. That is group chat. That is Weekends with Waz.

That is our whole NBA slate. Also, make sure you check out the Ringer music show. Roger, I'm going to be on the Ringer music show this week. With Charles Holmes? With Charles Holmes. Oh, what Charles Holmes? I'm Justin Sales.

We're going to be talking about the Kanye documentary on Netflix. Part three. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. I don't know if you've seen it. Kanye is, um...

Yeah. But anyway, make sure you also check out, let's keep the propaganda going. R2C2 with Who, Roger Bell. Vallejo legend, the cross-eye climb, C-C-Sabathia. Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook, season three on the way with Who, Roger Bell? Town legend, Danielle Smith. We'll see you guys Thursday. How!