The Ringer NBA Show - Does Paul George Make the Sixers Contenders and the Biggest Offseason Questions | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Logan, Raja, and Howard are back to raise some of the most intriguing questions of this season, such as the effects of the upcoming TV deal on potential super teams (04:30), if Paul George makes the Sixers legit contenders (15:28), and whether Klay Thompson should feel disrespected by the Warriors (30:16). After, the guys give their goodbyes to producer Kai for his last show before opening up the mailbag (57:52). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers; Jonathan Kermah, Kai Grady, and Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Y'all, it's the Midnight Boys. Poo-Bee-Boo! And we're opening up the kitchen again to talk about the Bear season three, returning to Hulu on June 27th. That's right, the Midnight Boys are taking over Prestige TV. How you feeling, cousin? Cousin! New restaurant, new takes, new ups, new downs, new season.

I'm wearing to go, Chuck. That's what I'm talking about. Make sure you plug in to the Prestige TV feed. Van and I will be talking about every single episode. of the bear. That's June 27th on the prestige TV feed. It's popping.

Rulans. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Howard Beck in the motherfucking cut. New producer, Eddie O Campo is getting the

Roger Bell. Ooh, you see I go with the nicknames. You got the dig names. All right. All right. So wait, you're putting him

before we get to what Roger has been doing to Eddie. Let me just tell people what we got going on today. Today we are the other night I hit Howard and said, just come up with three questions to see, you know, about the future of the league. Just any questions that you have, three questions. And I'm going to come up with three questions and we're going to bring them to the table.

So that's what we're going to do. We have a motherfucking mailback later with a surprising bit of news. But anyway, let's start off with Raja just, we have a new producer now. Raja is just putting him through the ringer and, you know, just putting his initiation. Roger, can you tell the people what you're doing right now, what you do to every producer that you're about to do to Eduardo for the next couple of weeks, please? I, what do I do?

I mean, I hop on, I hop on probably be a few minutes late. And then I turn my recording device on, say, let's pod, and I'm ready to go. What do I do? Well, I think what I've seen over the four illustri, almost four illustrious years at this podcast is, Raja faking like he's a diva for four weeks, but actually the nicest guy on, nicest guy on the planet. I think that's what usually happens with what do producers.

Oh, is that what happens? I don't even know what I do that. You act like you're like this diva, like what the fuck's up, what's up? What's going on? Let's fucking do this stupid shit. Let's do it. Let's do it.

And then they find out you're actually a nice guy. That's, I think, what you do. I think you're testing the waters. I got testing things. That's what we're doing. I like to, you know, try to keep up with appearances, usually my reputation precedes me. I don't like to let people down, right?

So off the bat, I am the A-hole that everybody thinks I am, but Eddie O will soon find out. This is, yeah, this is a team, man. Teamwork makes the dream work. The important thing is that, is that even after like 10 minutes of nonstop hazing on the pod last week, that Raj is still texting the whole group to ask for the link. That's the important word.

The text after I still. sent the link and added him in the i message by the way that's i just i'm going like it's the world is right because raja's right types the letters l i nk question mark hey being being a creature of habit um i can respect what that might do to you all if you did not get that text right before the like probably five minutes into our pod time right so i would personally be worried right i honestly asked the group 30 seconds before you came on i was like is he serious is raja Is it serious or is he joking? Because I'm not sure.

I'm literally not sure. Even though the link was on top of the text that you sent, I didn't know. Howard, did you get any initiation vibes? Did you feel like you were initiated into your real ones experience? No, Roger was really nice to me from day one, Logan. Okay. All right. Well, that says something about your boy.

Real, recognizing real. Any of those type of things would apply in that space. Okay. I think it was respect for my for age. It was an old age thing. There's a deference there. There you go. There you go.

All right. Okay. All right. Well, I don't even know how to segue into this. Let's just get into the questions. I've been thinking a lot about TV deals, the new TV deal that's about to come on. That's like the biggest, the biggest thing that's looming over the NBA. And I thought about, maybe think about previous TV deals and the most.

most recent one and how it really affected free agency and affected how we thought about free agency, but mostly, you know, put the face on it. Just how catastrophic for some people, but also for the Golden State Warriors, how great that, that TV, the last TV deal was because it was a spike in the cap and all of these things, despite, you know, the measures that the NBA was trying to implementing the soothing. And I want to pose this question to Howard first, and then we can talk about the ramification with Rajah. But it's the first question I have, Howard, is what lessons should the NBA apply from its last TV deal that they can implement into this one to combat everything that they've wanted to combat in terms of super teams and things of that nature, Howard?

I mean, the thing is, the NBA has tried and very, pretty much every CBA they've ever adopted to stop high spending teams from spending so much, to stop super teams from becoming super duper teams and whatever. Like, they're always trying to do this. They're always trying to put the brakes on because small market teams or teams in less revenue rich markets feel like they fall behind. So this is like just the, this is an eternal battle in this league. And that's partially a CBA matter. That's partially a TV national rights deal matter. But the fact is like the 2016 cap spike, the whole thing that allowed Kevin Durant to go to the Warriors was a once in a blue moon event. And it happened for a bunch of reasons.

But to your point, it mostly happened because the players association rejected what the league proposed as quote unquote cap smoothing, where they wanted to introduce all this new money, all these new riches gradually. and the union under Michelle Roberts at that time said, no, we don't want to do that. And so 2016, we had the cap spike. Kevin Durant got to go to the Warriors, a team that already had three guys on max deals are close to it. I guess actually Steph wasn't on his max deal yet. But point being, this system, the way it's designed, should not have ever allowed for that. And it only happened in 2016 because of a media rights deal that was kicking in and the union rejecting capsmoving.

The union or the league, everybody, Logan, to your question, the lessons learned, it was learned. When this new media rights deal comes in at whatever, 75, 80 million, whatever, or a billion, I should say, it's going to be smooth. There's going to be a maximum of 10% increase in the salary cap every year. So there will not be a cap spike. There will not be anything more than a 10% jump. So $100 million salary cap would become one. 110 and 110 would become 121 or whatever. Like, that's it.

10% maximum year to year. So we're not going to have another 2016 type of situation. So that lesson's already been learned. Other than that, I mean, listen, it's great for everyone that the league's about to be raking in two and a half times the revenue that they were from the previous TV rights deal. All the teams are benefiting. All the players are benefiting. The players get roughly 50% of all. of that new income, that new revenue.

And yeah, just, you know, folks get ready to see max salaries over 70 million in just a few years, where guys are going to be signing deals with a starting salary of 70, 75 million, and signing deals that, like, we already have seen multi-100 million deals, Jalen Brown, 300 million last summer. That's just going to be the norm, folks, so get used to it. Roger, when you, I'd assume you were in the league when they were 14, you get the you were out a couple years later, but with the soothing process, do you remember that time in the players association and kind of what the calculus was and rejecting that and rejecting that soothing as opposed to saying, no, we want the bread now and what circumstance. Because I know, like, on one hand, I do understand, like, I'm going to. player standpoint, we just got out of a lockout where a lot of dudes have, you know, not made the money that they, uh, that they lost wages and didn't make the money that they thought they were going to make going into that. And you take about a few years later, you have a TV rights deal and you have this money coming in. Why would you want to sue? But do you remember that process and why it kind of went to what it was from a player standpoint? Um, I don't really remember. That was probably above my pay grade. Like I was, I was, I was just, I don't even know if I was a rep at that point. Um, it might have been.

but I wasn't I wasn't sitting at those smaller tables when those type of decisions were being made you know what I mean like so I don't have any great insight into that I mean I do think it's interesting we always talk about the team and what and what the cap spike does does to you know those bigger markets and what they're able to spend on and get done but I always like to look at it from the players perspective and while we never you know well I would never say never but I wouldn't say never, Jesus Christ. But the point is we're not counting each other's money usually, but it's always interesting to me to watch from a player's perspective because if you timed up the year before that spike, I mean, you were watching cats be able to maximize and move and do things that you didn't have the opportunity to do just the year before. I always say like generationally,

when people ask me about players making what they make now, like good for them, right? Like, sure, there's a piece of you that's like, man, that would have been incredible. But I'm always hypersensitive because I know there was a generation of player looking at the mees of the world making what we made saying, that guy makes that. So I don't love to do that. But I do think it's more interesting when you get that player that was a free agent, let's say in 15.

And, you know, that hadn't been implemented. But in 16, you know, his peer was able to make X amount more, you know, than he did. Like that's interesting to me from the player standpoint. Howard, when I always think about the. You know, when you talk about the legacy of that, the last TV deal, it's obviously the face of it is the, the, the warriors and the picking up of dynasties. I guess to add to the question before we get to your first one, why, why doesn't the NBA, you know, want that when it's been so great for them, right? And I understand there's a big, a tug and pool with small market teams and all these things, but I still can't. wrap my head around it when the league is built on these things and it happens, why does

everyone get so up in arms when dynasties bring ratings, you know, dynasty brings, you know, legacy pools for your best players? Why is there such a backlash whenever this happens in any type of scenario, right? Whether you go through the rules and you pay more money than you should, but like you, your front office puts you in a position to be, able to maximize your team and then too in that historic route that helps everybody in the league why does the league tend to get mad about that so part of this is a question of what do we mean when we talk about quote unquote the league right because the league is it's adam silver and all of his deputies and executives and everybody operating at Olympic tower midtown Manhattan that's the league

but the league is also 30 owners or 30 ownership groups and then all sorts of other constituencies But leave it at that for a minute. When we talk about what the league wants, what the league might want at a 30,000 foot level or at the league office level is not necessarily what all 30 teams would want. And what the Warriors, Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, a couple other teams might want is probably not the same as what the Thunder, Grizzlies, Pacers, Timberwolves, spurs want, right?

Like we have big market versus small markets a real thing. large revenue teams versus smaller revenue teams is a thing. Destination markets, non-destination markets. Like, all these things matter. And, like, I don't think any individual owner or team would ever say they're anti-dynasty or anti-super team necessarily. Like, I don't think anybody resented the fact that the Warriors drafted Steph, drafted Clay, drafted Draymond Green, and then became a champion.

It was when they had three guys who were already all-stars or all-NBA. top 15-ish players, you're not supposed to under a salary cap system have room to sign another recent MVP. It's not supposed to happen. The system broke down. And again, the league tried to avoid it. They proposed cap smoothing. The union rejected it.

The league shrugged its shoulders. There was nothing they could do. But, okay, maybe ratings were great. I don't remember. I'm not a ratings guy. I don't pay attention to this stuff. But were ratings great for all those Warriors finals, probably. Those were really fun teams.

although there was at one point even a backlash by fans who at some point thought like this is too much, it's overkill. And the last two championships that they won in that run with Durant, one went, what, five games and the other was a sweep? Like, maybe that's not great for business. But the real problem is that if you're the Thunder, you don't think you should have lost Kevin Durant to a team that should have already been maxed out on superstars. And if you're any other small market team, you're looking at that. as a cautionary tale saying that could be me next. And the only thing that keeps me, the small market team,

able to keep my stars is if the teams with a lot of revenue have already spent their max salaries on stars. And so I can keep my guy because there's nowhere for them to go. That's a cynical way of looking at it, but you have to look at it through the selfish lens or self-interest lens of each individual team. Yeah, but it's funny because you can bring up the Thunder, right? Like, over these small market teams, they make up these rules that end up hurting them on the back end.

Like, the Thunder are a great example of that. They, you know, put all these restrictions on these to combat these big market teams. And then they say they can't afford James Hardin, right? So, like, it's a double-edged sword. So we'll see what happens. What's you got, what you got, Howard? Let's drill down, like, a little bit more specific for the off-season. Let's just like let's hit the big obvious one because Paul George is probably the domino that starts everything this summer.

And all right, Paul George, does he stay with the Clippers? Does he go? If he goes, where's he going? So let's put it this way. If Paul George does leave the Clippers for the Sixers, the team that's been most often tied to him, does it make the Sixers an actual contender? And when I say contender, I mean, let's be honest. Does it put him in a position to knock out Boston? Yes.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't have as much time on this. But I think I've said before that Paul George, adding a piece like Paul George to the Sixers, giving you another reliable or at least semi-reliable piece to go with that, on both ends of the floor. And really what I think it does to you as a wing defensive team when you're trying to combat a team like Boston,

just off the top of my dome, I think it puts them in the mix. Are you asking me if it makes them a favorite to knock Boston out? No. but does it put them squarely in the mix in the Eastern Conference? Anything could happen on any given night? In my estimation, yeah, I still think, I'm trying to go down the Sixers roster in my brain right now. Like, I think, you know, when you bring in a piece like Paul George,

you might have to shuffle the deck on some other pieces that are there. I don't think it's, you know, like, so there's some other things that might have to be done around the fringes. But yes, Paul George, Joel Embed, Tyrese, Maxi, a force in the east for me. I think they're a force in the east for sure. They're a contender on paper. I don't believe them to be, if I'm thinking about if they're going to,

you're asking if they're going to beat the bosses of the world, I don't believe so. You're going to have to show me. Just not even off of the, on paper, yes, their games are great. But in practice, we've seen time and time again, Howard, and B, get to the finish line and lose, like perpetually, Not even just because he's played well and lost. There's been curious games from him.

There's obviously been unfortunate injuries. Same with Paul George, right? Like, that's something that they're going to have to overcome. That's one side of the coin. But, Raj, I think you can speak to the other side of the coin. The reason why Boston was really good in this series is because it was years and years and years upon playing with each other. These guys knowing each other on top of being coming in at the right time.

there's going to be whenever you absorb a guy like Paul George there's going to be a learning process and it's going to take some time to be able to trust him within an offense at the highest moments that just doesn't happen

that's built over time and I'm just not confident that's going to be able to happen in this and that and that's in the time you're going to need them to be able to coexist I just don't see it

so it's the the fact that both have been curious when the seasons been on the line on all their respective teams, and then the fact that they, I'm curious about the cohesiveness. But I will say, I will play a Roger Devils advocate, and I will say, if they get the right side of the bracket, the east is wide open. And that's definitely going for them. It is wide open. Until they get to the coverage finals against Boston, you mean. Exactly. But like, or, like, there could be a scenario where, like, this is the new NBA.

that we're at where how did Dallas get to the finals they avoided Denver enough for someone else to knock them out and then they got there you know that's there's a scenario with that like because you know the NBA is is wide open in that way that would be my case for them to go to the finals is that the east is wide open and if they can avoid Boston on the right side of the bracket they have a chance if this was a fifth right but I'm going to say if they were all you know health is going to be like like it is with any championship run would be would be paramount right Right. And to your point, Logan, about them needing some time to figure some of those things out. I would agree with that. And health is going to play a huge role in that, too, right?

Like, we can't be talking about a season where Joel Embed misses 30 games or someone misses 30 games for some injury and expect them to really be firing on all cylinders going into the playoffs. I would just say that, you know, Paul George is one of those unique pieces where I think. especially with the two different, you know, players in Tyrese and Joel Embed, you need a guy who can be a Swiss Army knife in there on offense. It doesn't have to do one specific thing all the time. Could pick up the slack in playmaking and having the ball in his hands if need be, but doesn't have to have it in his hands all the time. Can get to work relatively quick.

So these aren't like all sticky possessions. I love Tyrese maxi on the ball, but I do see a world in which, like, if we're talking about championship level, I don't want him on the ball all the time. They're going to run into the same situation that Phoenix ran into last year, right, where you have all these scores and you have all these playmakers, but you don't have anybody to, well, to just navigate the offense when it gets tough. Yeah, I mean, there's some of that.

I'm always in the market for, like, like, you know, an orchestrator. I just think they're so invaluable, a guy who can put all the pieces in place and just continuously get us what we want, whether that's a touch for Howard or a touch for Kai or a touch for Eddie. I mean, even if we're not running sets, just know how to distribute and keep everything, you know, harmonious out there. I think that's a very underrated skill and, quite frankly, position in NBA locker rooms. But I will digress with that.

I think that Joel Embede, and I don't think we're giving him enough credit, and maybe I haven't given him enough credit. But he, when healthy, he's a problem. Like, for sure. He, he, he commands things out of a team, like, what you're going to just put? Chris, that's just going to guard him straight up? I bet. Like, what, you know what I mean?

Like, so he puts some unique pressures on you. Like, when you're talking about Tyrese, a healthy Joel, and then something like Paul George, that, like, if I'm guarding Paul George, and a coach comes to me and says, hey, man, we want you to run over. I'm like, no, no, not. Now, don't ask me to do that. No, uh-uh. Like, and even if I buy into that, which I'm probably- You ducking to fade, raw? You ducking to fade?

No, hear what I'm saying to you, though. He's the level of player that I don't want to leave to help on something else. Because if, you know, I always felt like that level of player, I could, it was much easier for me to keep them down. Like start a game and just suppress them off the bat. I had a better chance of doing that than if you, if I suppressed them, Like, let's say even just denying them the ball and they couldn't get it. And then so someone else starts cooking.

And now you're going to ask us to start doubling, which pulls me into rotation. And now this guy gets two free looks at the basket. Once he gets started, I can't turn him off. And so that's a Paul George piece and the dynamics that will come into play for teams trying to defend when you've got an Embed who can do what he can do. And someone looking at you like, man, I'm just. just I might just bullshit this rotation by like one and a half steps because I don't want to give Paul George open looks.

He starts cooking. It just, it sounds, it is subtle and it sounds ridiculous, but that can open up the floor in a way that it's hard to describe. How do you, I ask last question on this topic. How do you, excuse me, after the six years, I referenced it earlier, how do you combat the togetherness or the champion? championship medal that the Celtics have acquired over the last year. And how do you overcome that as you're trying to develop that on your own on the fly?

If you're the Sixers, and you do get Paul George, and you are playing with these teams that I've played with each other for years and do know their tendencies and you're learning to trust other players on the fly. How do you overcome that? If you're the Sixers, how do you overcome the fact that Boston has that and you don't? Yeah. Four teams in general, right? Like that's something that the whole storyline last year with Milwaukee was that they didn't know how to fit together on the fly.

There was a lot of other extenuating circumstances, right? With no training camp, with doc, coaching change, all those things. Damn, coming in out of shape. There are extenuating circumstances to that. But like, how do you combat that if you are a team that? Well, there's no great answer. I wish I had one for you. I'll be, I'm going to be honest.

I don't know. I would take a stab at like what the chemistry. What chemistry like boils down to is like on the court, you know, everybody understanding what everybody wants to do and where we like to be and when I'm going to make that cut. If Howard's getting a double team and, you know, if Logan's playing pick and roll, like the timing of me lifting behind it out of the strong corner, like that's chemistry. But also chemistry is like, you know, emotional and psychological in terms of like we're on the same page.

We've all bought into this. We've had some rough patches with maybe role definition, but we're past all of that. So we're in this really nice smooth spot in terms of chemistry. And so for the Sixers, expediting the process of like, hey, understand the window here, we don't have time for the bullshit. Like we've seen what's happened to the Brooklyn's of the world or the teams, you know, the sons where it, you know, we put these talents together. And for whatever reason, everyone's not ready to accept the inevitability of us all having to give up a little bit of ourselves for the greater good or for the goal of. hand, right? So we need to cut that shit out. Like, we're coming in ready to play. And then generally speaking, I think from the physical standpoint, and again, forgive me, I'm just taking a stab at a

tough question, Logan, good for you. Playing harder than your opponent, like, you know, being, we talk about this in the NBA all the time, like, if you will just go out there and compete and play harder and be tougher, possession after possession, you know, game after game, you're winning those battles, it gives you a chance to overcome, you know, some things from the other side that might be better than you, chemistry, shot making, so on and so forth. You know, but like, Boston's not just, it's not just their chemistry. There's real competitive depth over there. So, like, there are a lot of things that you have to overcome. But I think Paul George gets you a step closer to that and put you in the mix to do it. For sure. I got a bit of a quirky question.

We'll start with Howard. And then I think Roger, we'll have some thoughts on this. Will there ever be, and should there ever be, a salary cap on coaches? Ah, that's interesting. I don't know that there can be, like, legally, right? They have a collective bargaining agreement with the players. So unless the coaches are going to unionize, in this case, to their own detriment, I don't think there could be.

I guess at the league level, they could try to create a, rule. I don't think it could have. Like, I, I'm no lawyer. I don't think this could actually happen. I think the only reason we have max salaries on players is because there's a collective bargaining agreement. Like, that's a fact. Whether coaches could have a max salary, I think, would depend on something similar. Otherwise, you've got antitrust violations. Look at that. I just became an antitrust lawyer within like 30 seconds of a podcast. Congratulations. You just passed the New York Bar. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. It feels great. No, so no, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just never going to, it's never going to happen.

Like, even conceptually, like, even if it could happen, is that a good thing? Does it somehow prevent richer teams from outspending poorer teams for the best coaches? Like, I don't, I don't know that we've ever had that issue. So, yeah, I just, that's what I got. I see, like, the explosion in coaching salaries. And it's, it's, it's not. Got not a hand. Why don't you want coaches to get paid?

I'm not anti-coach. I don't have anything against coaches. I don't have anything against coaches. I feel like for the NBA players, and Roger probably will back me up on this, the teams feel like they always act poor when it comes to paying the players. I just figured it. Maybe they might act poor and trying to pay the coaches. They always try to act like, oh, man, these salaries are getting out of hand and woo-woo.

And I just felt that that would be a fair thing, Roger. That's what I saw all I brought it up for. I hear you. And you see these exploding salaries like Monty Wims and good on Monty Wins are getting the bag. You know we are pro bag here on real ones. You know that. We all know that. All the way.

I'm just saying from a team perspective, if I'm looking at it, getting to coach all that money and having him walk for, you know, how many years and 65 million left on his deal isn't, you know, great business. So just figured, hey, maybe save them from themselves. Yeah. I mean, look, Howard would know more than me about the legal, the legal ramifications over there with Beck Esquire. But I, I, I, um, and associates. I would just say that I see where you're coming from. I hear you.

I'm not counting anybody's, like, I'm not knocking. There's some great coaches out there. And contrary to what we believe at times, those are very difficult jobs. Like, there's so much that goes into to being a high level coach at any level, but, but especially in the NBA when, when guys are making what they're making and they're more dynamics at play. Like, that's, that's not easy, man. I see dudes.

I talked about my buddy Steve Nash, look like he was aging right before my eyes on TV. You know what I mean? Like, and now I'm aging. I see myself in the mirror every day. But I mean, this brother was like, we're talking for week to week. And he's somehow looking younger now that he's not a coach. Amazing. like 2010 all over again.

It looks happy again, right? Like that stress level is incredible, so I'm not knocking anybody getting paid. But I hear what you're saying, like, you know, nobody ever bats and I really, what a coach gets. Like, it's not a big deal, right? And everybody and people pick apart, you know, your average player, not your star,

but like your average guy. That's, it's happened for, like, forever. So it's an interesting, it's an interesting question, Logan. Probably won't happen. But, you know, just figured I just, you know. It's a thought. Mixed about a little bit. Hey, go ahead.

Rocking a little. My guys. Yeah, for your own detriment, you know? Instead of getting 60, get like 30. What's you got, Howard? All right. So I'm going to put this to Raja. We'll all discuss, obviously.

I'm going to put this to Raja first because this is one of those questions where it's really easy for people in my position or your position, Logan, to talk about what a player should do when they have to balance paycheck versus competitive considerations versus city versus all these things, right? I can sit here and look and say what I think a player should do, but like it's their lives. So I'm going to put this to Raja first, and it's about Clay Thompson. Clay Thompson is a warrior for life so far. Clay Thompson clearly by the fact that there is an impasse or lack of contract so far at a time

when he, you know, the warriors and Clay could come to terms any time now, and they have not as of 1234 Eastern Time on Monday, June 24th. What's what should be what he's he's 34? What should what should Clay Thompson won at this stage of his career? He has four championships. He has all the money you could ever ask for already. He maybe could get a bigger paycheck in Orlando or Detroit, I guess, maybe. I'm trying to think of the other cap teams, right?

I don't think I don't think Oklahoma's running after him. Philly's got other priorities. Global warming is a thing, but do you think he can, like, ride his, have his boat in Lake Michigan in the wintertime? We probably should consider where, like, docking fees are the most reasonable, right? Like, where else can he commute to work over the water? But, I mean, listen, it's easy, again, easy for me to say. I looked at it and I think Clay Thompson should be a Laker, a warrior for life, and just stay put. Stay with your Splash brother, Steph Curry, and stay with Draymond and Steve Kerr, right off into the sunset together.

but easy for me to say you should come to compromise on the salary level when some other team may be offering you 20 million more over the next couple of years. But I don't know, Raja, but am I wrong to think that like there are things that are bigger than the paycheck here, that being able to finish your career with the guys you started with the won championships with should outweigh whatever else it is that that Clay may be seeking? Is that, I don't know, I sometimes feel bad for feeling that way because it's not my money that's being sacrificed. Sure. So I probably haven't talked to you about this, but I've talked about it on the pod before a lot. It was the only thing I really have to compare it to, and obviously I'm not nearly the player that Clay was or been on teams like that. But the last time I was a free agent, you know, I knew it was kind of be my last deal.

And I was trying to sort through where I was going to go. me, you know, Eric Spolstra had hit me and he was like, you know, it's finally time for you to come home. This was the year that LeBron, D. Wade, this was that year. So they had spent all of the money. It was for the vet minimum. The same with Kobe and the Lakers. Like it was going to be the vet minimum. And I hadn't made the $200 and some million, Howard.

So my situation was different. Like I couldn't afford to take the vet minimum when teams like Utah and Chicago, were offering me way more than that, right? So, like, my situation was different, but those exist. And, and, like, I would walk around water parks in Miami and, and, and, or in West Palm. And people would just heckle me for like, just mercy, like, mercilessly. Like, they'd just be after me and I'd have to be like, guys, what do you want me to do? Like, I got to, you know what I mean?

I can't come play for the minimum. So, like, there, there are times like that. Clay's is interesting because I've also said that one of my biggest regrets, was not being able, and I didn't control it, was being able to be somewhere long enough to ride off into the sunset as one of theirs. Right? And just having that, and I don't think he'll,

there won't be a world where Clay is not known as a Golden State warrior and he's not welcomed back in the bay. Like, you know, he's done too much. But man, that's a pretty cool story when you never leave and you're like from start to finish, right? Here's the caveat, Howard, and I don't know because I'm not there

and I don't know what he's been offered, there does come a point where you're a man and you feel disrespected for all that you've accomplished. Now, you might not have to pay me like the Clay Thompson of four or five years ago, but I also don't want to be treated like I have no skin in this game. Like I'm not a part of the reason that we have this brand new, you know, the Chase Center that I'm not a huge reason we have those recent banners hanging up.

So it's a balance, right? I personally would tell Clay, having done this, hey, man, first of all, like, organizationally, that's all you know. That's a very well-run organization. You don't want to hop into a situation with not going to say any team names, but places that historically, if you ask around, are not run well. That is the most frustrating thing ever.

It's not even just the winning and losing. It's going somewhere where you're like, this is how you guys do business here? Like this is my day to day. Like these are the things that aren't in place where I'm used to them being in place. Like that's a very frustrating thing. The other part of it would be like, you know, that money, you know, while I'm sitting here telling you I don't count anyone's money. Like if we're talking about 20 mil over the course of four years for Clay, like I don't think that's worth it for a player like him to leave Golden State unless he's telling you, hey, Howard, Raj, Logan.

look at what they're fucking offering me. Would you not be disrespected by that? And if he's living in that world, pack your shit. Because you've done too much. Yeah. No, that's the thing. If this comes down to like happiness for lack of a better term, where's Clay going to be happy?

Like, you know he can be happy in the Bay Area. Are you happy with more money on the Orlando Magic? Like, is that? I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sliding Orlando or the magic, but like, I don't think the places he could go,

they're, I mean, good, decent teams, but like, is the extra five or 10 million or whatever it may be worth whatever that tradeoff? And like only Clay can answer that,

and only Clay will answer that ultimately. We'll have an answer within the next, you know, couple of weeks at the latest, I think. But I just think it's interesting. Here's the other part. It is interesting,

Howard. Here's the other part. We talked last pod, right? about LeBron and where he was at in terms of his competitive fire, right? And so this is what I didn't touch on. We haven't touched on about Clay. And I don't know this to be the case, but I think it's at least worth bringing up. There could be a world where Clay's not even, it's not about the money or his happiness. It's about him saying, hey, man, I still want an opportunity to try to compete at that level. And that's not here for me any longer. Right. And those, those, those are hard things within an

athlete to quell. Like those feelings of like, I still think whether he's right or wrong is besides the point, but I still feel like I can do it at that level and contribute to that level of success playing this role. And that's not going to be what I have here going forward. You know, that's when that's when the ego starts to get involved. And look, being a former player, there's a lot of that with us. Like, I don't know. this situation is about ego, it's about respect, and it's about economics. Clay wants respect. That's what this all boils down to.

He felt like the offer last year. I think it was two years, $48 million. That wasn't respect. That didn't give enough respect in his mind to what he's done for that organization. whether and so Raj's just giving a lot of faces right now not for any

distracting me from doing my point I'm sorry I'm not judging I'm like distract him or my point that's disrespectful you know that so so that so on that end he believes that is disrespectful

he turned that down to try to play his way into a bigger contract that was his prerogative and he's still carrying that into these negotiations or lack thereof because there has

the offer is what the offer is, right? And the Warriors thinking is, well, if you can go find a better offer somewhere else, go right ahead, be my guest. And if you want to, because here's the thing. And, Raz, you know this as a, just a former player. The team that sees you every day, knows you better than the team that is out of the way, right?

They know you better than the Orlando Magic. They know your medicals. They know your game. They know everything. And they are going to offer accordingly to them. that. And that is what is happening on the Golden State Warriors side where they're like, okay, we know what this is and we're still going to, you know, the offer is what the offer is. We still want to build a contender around this big three, right? But Clay is over here seeing like,

hey, man, y'all took care of Andrew Wiggins, right? Y'all took care of Jordan Poole, right? You guys took care of Draymond Green after he punched Jordan Poole in the face for everyone to see. and the warriors are like, well, we gave you a max or a near max deal when you weren't even playing basketball. We gave you almost $200 million when you, after you tour your ACL. What do you mean we don't want it? We don't give you respect. We're still giving you a competitive offer. So it's going to go come down to, it's going to come down to feelings at the end of the day.

It's going to come down. It's the ball is all in Clay's court. If he wants to get, some people will say very emotional. Some people, does he want to get, I don't know, does he want to prove a point that they can't win without me? That's his prerogative. But the thing is, and I can speak to this very clearly, it is not going to be the same anywhere else.

Because if he goes to the Orlando Magic, a fan base that, and they pay him, all that money, he is not going to be afforded all of the luxuries that he has in the Bay Area. If there's a two of 17 game and there's going to be a lot of those, it's not going to be a fan base that's like, oh, it's okay, Clay, don't worry about it. It's fine. We love you so much. It's going to be like, we paid this motherfucker $20-something million.

And he's over here going two of 17. And he's over here riding his boat every day. And he's kind of aloof. And he's not the leader that we thought he was going to be for this. specific group and it's not going to go good for him. Clay is a very sensitive person, hence why we are at this point of the negotiations, right? So it's going to be a matter of ego that's going up against economics and feelings. And my coach Carter, Coach Carter, Alonzo Carter, he's now with Arizona. And this is a bit of advice to everybody. He was my high school coach.

And I always bring this up every once in a while on the real ones podcast. He would always give me this advice. Get your feelings out to shit. You got to do that if you're going to be Clay Thompson. That would be my advice to Clay Thompson or she'll be Rogers' advice to Clay Thompson because he's going to, he's, the thing is he is so slighted by what has been transpired over the last few years that he don't, I don't think, and this is just my personal opinion. I don't think he, he sees that everything he'll say he wants on paper is already in Golden State, right? The love that he gets from the fan base, right? The acceptance he gets from the fan base and in the front office, and, in the locker room for just his Clay isms. And he's going, they're going to try to compete for a title. That's the best you can ask for. And he's going to get the money requisite to what he would get in the marketplace. And he gets to ride his boat to work every day.

He gets everything that he wants in the Bay Area. Now, the question will always be, where does his feelings lie? And that's going to be interesting. I don't know what the answer. Only Clay knows that answer. But that's pretty much what's going on here is that. Clay is in his feelings. And in some place you could say rightfully so based on what I just laid out.

But this is also a business. And we're going to see what happens between that. Because the Warriors want all three of those stars to end their careers in a Warriors uniform and nowhere else. That's why they traded. That's why they never traded Draymond Green when they probably should have. That's why they traded away Jordan Poole. It's why they've done all these things to ride off into the sunset with these three guys and celebrate them the way they should be celebrated. We'll see if that happens, but it's all in Clay's court.

Yeah, I mean, you had a lot of good points there, Logan, about, about, you know, just fans, their expectation of you, the grace that they'll give you the equity that you have with them because you've been there forever versus what another market might be like. those are those are really good points too that's it's a tough one man because clay sitting there you know look i played 29 minutes a game last year average 18 points shot shot 39% from three like you know he i mean while i don't think he is the same player i don't know anyone would say he's the same player like he's still like i'm productive um so it's gonna be a tough one man and there's no right answer to it to each their own um you know respect is a big deal too though i talked about the ego and that ties hand in hand with respect and feeling like you've you've been disrespected and so be interesting to watch. I hope he stays and I think he ultimately will.

That's my that's my best guess and that's just a hunch. The other thing is the Joe Laker part of it and I know Howard can speak to this. The way Joe Laker operates is he waits to the last minute to pay you a shit ton of money. He did that with he hesitated to to spend money on Jordan Poole and Andrew Wiggins, he did it. He ended up doing it, even when he didn't have to for Jordan Poole. He even hesitated to spend the full max on Curry once upon a time. Guess what? Even after he was in multiple-time MVP, guess what?

He still did it, right? Like, he ultimately tries to, he ultimately takes care or makes the attempt to take care of guys out in the last minute. It's just a matter of if Clay accepts at the end of the day. And I think he ultimately will. I do think so. It's kind of teetering right now. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm with Howard. I hope so. I think we all hope so for the game. It should happen. Okay. And now it's time for today's hard-to-handle segment presented by, guess what, Raja, State Farm.

When you get a new car or a new home, your first reaction might be to say things like, I can't handle this, but what you should say is something that can help. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, so I have a question that leaves right into the too hard to handle. Segment. Michael Jordan.

We had this, we put this story from our buddy Tom Habistro, and he had a big piece in Yahoo Sports about stats in the NBA and how they affect Michael Jordan's 87-88 defensive player of the year award. And we could get to the specifics a little bit, but basically the gist of it is the Chicago Stadium stat keepers was cooking up them stats. And it was crazy for me, Raja,

because you know I'm like 12 years old. And a few weeks back, we were talking about how great Michael Jordan was and I referenced it. And damn, Rajan, he got a defensive player of the year award. Wow. And that, apparently,

I don't think it goes up in smoke necessarily. He was a great player. He was a great defender in that time. But it brought something. I put it in the chat. I don't normally put shit in the chat. I don't put articles in the chat like I used to. But now I put this one into chat.

It was on a Saturday. And Raja had thoughts. Raja, can you present the thoughts that you had? Yeah. And expand upon the thoughts that you had reading the article and then in the outcry of the article and the outcry that you had from the article. Yeah, well, the article was interesting

because I didn't know that whole backstory with MJ, if it's true about, you know, him wanting, more credit as a defender because statistically he was a better defender and basing his case on the stats. Like I don't

I'm of the I don't think stats always tell the defensive story. Like I think great on ball defenders sometimes don't have great stats. They're not they're not you know, they're not in passing lanes

looking for steals all the time or gambling. Like they're just solid on ball guys but I didn't know that story. So the article was interesting. I have no real you know, take on, on or hard evidence to, to corroborate that or anything like that as far as MJ goes. I would just say this. I played late 90s, um, not that late 90s, early 2000s. Yeah,

I came in 2000. You ain't that old. I'm not that old. Like, but I was, you know, that was my wheelhouse. I was watching. Um, there were still people around in different arenas that you knew if you were part of the home team when you looked at the stat sheet if you were one of their guys that there might have been a discrepancy between like what you thought you might have had on the glass

and what you actually had on the glass or in the way of steals or even assist some guys might get two dribbles and a move after getting the ball to a teammate who scores they might get the assist for that

where other guys might not. It happened. Like, I saw that. I don't know how many guys were doing it deliberately, or if there were, you know, like agendas for people to make all MBAs and all of that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that,

you know, it's your, it's your home guys. And that, that happened. You want to put any names to that, Roger? I'm not,

no, I'm not putting any names to it. And I'm, and, and, and, and, you know,

look, there's, statisticians at the time that there's a human element to that. They are humans. Like you weren't tracking that the way that. I don't believe that they had like the digital stuff fully implemented.

No. And this is an article to like 2018. No. So like like look if I'm if I'm used to like John Snow, forgive me I was watching Game of Thrones the other day. I was going back. But if he's locked in.

If he's a theft and he's and I'm used to just. Bridgetton boys on the way. Bridgett him. Straight up. If I'm used to just seeing him like steal, steal, steal, you know, like, man, something gets knocked away. He scoops it. Who's to say, like Howard got the deflection.

John Snow wound up with the ball or John Snow got the deflection. Howard wound up with the ball. Like, John Snow gets to steal. Like, they're humans. It happens. But it did happen. Suddenly we need like Mallory and Joanna on the pod to like fill in some John. I met Joanna a couple of weeks ago.

Joanna Robinson. sweetheart. Love her. Who was Joanna Robinson? She does the House of R. See, that's why you don't ever fucking come to the studio. You need to come to the studio. Come to California, motherfucker.

Maybe you'll find out some of your coworkers. Straight up. She does House of R. She's been, she does the, she does talk to Thuron. She does a lot of our, she's a prestige TV pods. She's a one of a popcoats of writer. She's a G. All right.

All right. All right. All right. All right. My bad, John, I'm going to look that up. Yeah. The Ringer, the Ringer, uh, covers TV movies, music, other things, Raja.

Sports is not everything. We pop in, Roger, but we're one of the popping shits here. Just the whole ego system of the ring or verse. And the ring or verse. So number one, people should go check out Haberstro's story because it was really well done, really well researched. But a couple quick things. Like, everybody's known for a long time, people who are around the game,

that stat keeping in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, I think well into the 2000s, there was always some stuff going on with some home cooking. It's just a matter of degree. And a lot of this, like, you cannot retroactively fix all of this. The stats are the stats. Right. And even in Habertsrow's story, and this is, by the way, I want to be very clear, I'm not criticizing the reporting. I'm not casting his persons.

I'm not casting doubts. But Haberstro's story is built on a lot of, like, there's some observation, right? He got some tape. and he looked at the tape and some of these games that Michael had like 10 steals, you could only count three if you're looking at it and even if you were being generous. So clearly some stuff was happening. Do we know that the entire totals for the entire season when he got defensive player of the year that all of his blocks and steals were literally exaggerated by X percentage?

There's some extrapolation that Haberstro has to do for the sake of trying to figure out what was going on. But in the end, like what do we know and not know? there's still a lot we don't know for sure. I'm fine with that, guys, and here's why. It's not until the last 10 years or so in the tracking era that the NBA has the ability to try to ratchet down and make sure that there is less home cooking.

And again, Haberstro's story makes it clear. In the modern era, there's very little to no disparity anymore in a guys like steals or blocks, assists, whatever, home and road. the MBAs, the technology that they have now and the oversight that they have now has, I think, eliminated some of the statistical, you know, kind of like hocus pocus. Did Michael get that defensive player of the year award unfairly? That's the real question. Like, is this piece of his resume that some people say, this is why he's better than, you know,

one of the many reasons why I think he's better than LeBron or better than whoever in the goat discussion. if he doesn't win that DPOY award in that one season, we're not thinking any differently of Michael. Also, Howard, I'm going to be real with you. I'm going to be real with you as like someone of a younger generation than both of you guys. Bro, we're not stripping off of the defensive player of the year. That's only for the hipster crowd.

It's like, oh, did you remember he got defensive player of the year? Jordan's stuff, his greatness always goes on six titles in the way, and he's going six and on. finals. That's what his goat thing is. No one talks about him. It's like, yo, it was, remember he also got a defensive player at a year award? It's not he's the goat because he has. It's six championships. We think of his slam dunk titles before we think of his defensive player of the year award. I'm going to stick with you. I didn't know that he wanted a defensive player of the year until like, like 12 or 13 years old, you know, like I didn't know that.

I'm not going to, I'm never going to argue for for less accuracy or accountability. Like it, It matters on some level that this stuff was not accurate and accountable in real time. Does it matter to Michael Jordan's legacy or the way we discuss him or whether or not he's the goat? No. It doesn't affect anything in terms of the grand scheme of things. I'm just mad that the last day as couldn't ask him about it because we're never going to get in a comment from him ever again. And one other quick note here, back in the day. So two things are back of the day.

One, Bob Ryan, legend, Hall of Famer, OG told Haberstro in the story. Like, yeah, back then, we weren't even thinking. that much of these awards. Like, MVP always mattered, but the rest of these awards, like, we didn't have the debates. And this is before my time, too, by the way. I am not quite at Bob Ryan's level of Ogenus. But a lot of these awards, like, it's only in the social media era and the 24-7 debate era that we go fucking crazy with this stuff and we start screaming at people about their individual ballots and everything. Like, we're, most of this is because we, the public are out of control and care way too much about this shit.

Shout out to the dumb ass is still coming into my mentions to scream about Steph Curry's finals MVP or lack of finals MVP. Wow, wow, wow, back fuck above. Like, people, stop it. You're obsessing over these awards more than the players themselves are. Just fucking chill. My God. But nobody cared as much back then.

So there's that. The other thing is, DPOY in particular, we didn't have any defensive stats back then. There was no defensive real plus minus. There was no winshares. there was no anything. All we had, the entire catalog of defensive stats for most of the NBA's existence was steals and blocks. It was just, hey, that motherfucker locking him down.

That was all that was. Damn, you see how he did that? So when, so all the decades of DPOI awards were based on some combination of steals and blocks, which aren't the whole story of defense, obviously, and a little bit of observation. But there was no league pass back then. people are watching...

Yeah, you would see a guy come like twice a year if you were on the West Coast and it was an Eastern Conference player. You might see a guy four times a year and you might see them in the playoffs and you might on a night when you're not covering the team that you're in the market of, you might see a national game involving.

So people were going on a lot less data anyway. And so in lieu of observation, personally, yeah, you've got stats. And the only stats that were available for decades were steals and blocks in terms of the defense. And defensive rebounds, I see. suppose. But like that's it. That's it. So a lot of the awards, if we want to start trying to relitigate decades of past awards in an era where there were fewer stats, no analytics, no tracking,

beat writers who only saw their own team most of the time. There's a lot of shit we could relitigate and debate until the end of time. It's interesting. I don't think it really is, is worth fretting about. But a great piece by Haberstro regardless, because it was fascinating. And it was a glimpse into what the NBA and stackkeeping used to be. Raja, your goat is still your goat. Say less. Listen, I'm right. Look, MJ, the defensive player of the year was not.

I'm a total agreeance with Howard. While it's a thing, like, it wasn't the reason he was my goat. So I'm like, it's got nothing to doing nothing. So when things feel hard to handle, like when you need help protecting what matters most, remember to say, like a good neighbor, state farmers, there. State Farm is there to help you answer insurance questions about your car, your home, and other things that matter to you.

Whether it's on the phone, online, or on the award-winning State Farm mobile app. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Visit StateFarm.com to learn more. All right, guys. Brandon's segment is out of the way. Now it's time. Say goodbye

to one of our dogs. To one of our homies, to one of our Gs. Third Ikeye, is his last show. He is going on to bigger and better things. He is now taking on the prestige TV podcast feed. He is helping run that with our guy, a friend of the show, Justin Sales. Justin just took my guy away from me.

But it is now going on to bigger and better things. I'm so proud of this dude. He's so good. He's a rising star at the ringer. This is going to be his last show. Hello, Kai. How you doing, buddy? Thank you, sir.

Very, very sweet intro. I'm doing good. Very, very bittersweet. You know, it's sad. I'm going to miss you guys a lot. As to not get weepy to steal Howard's words before the pod, keep it short and sweet. It's like when I joined this pod, I was like, it was like two years ago. Big Boy job, very green, you know, one of the first pods I was producing.

So I really wanted it to go well and didn't want to detract from, you know, what you guys had already done. So, yeah, man, it's been a ride. I'm going to miss it for sure. We're going to miss you too, bro. You're going to be a star dog. Keep doing your thing, man. Thanks, Kai. Big things.

Thank you. I was especially going to miss you because he hasn't even heard of the podcast that you're going to. I have not, man. This is Kai's new podcast, Roger. Now you are obligated to listen to the Prestige TV. You got to lock it now, bro. But yeah, I appreciate y'all. It's been a ton of fun, and I'm definitely going to miss it.

Hey, man, send a voicemail every once in a while. We get, we hear your, you got to hear your voice, man. And I'm not going too far. Raja link every once in a while just for fun. Yeah. Just the Riverside link. Yo, real quick, me and Kai are working on something that I can't speak on right now. But like, this motherfucker, Kai is taller than I thought.

I was like, what the fuck? Like this dude, he's been lifting weights and shit. It was crazy to see him the other day. It was great. But I'll be seeing you, bro. Good shit, Kai. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Thank you. I appreciate y'all. And I still have all y'all's numbers, so you can't go too far. first one first mail back today So Rosa who don't text back to shit That's true I'm good though

Look I'm already locked in with the pod They got a Bridgetton pod from six days ago Bridgerton boys I know how to work my phone Look at him go This one's from Ronaldo He says with the rumors about Pat Riley Not wanting to give Jimmy Butler

His extension anytime soon And with Jimmy wanting his extension right now What do you think will happen? We all know that Jimmy wants be in Miami for the rest of his career. And we all know he loves it. He loves it there, but we also know that Jimmy is pretty serious about his money. Does Jimmy at age 35 fit Miami's long-term goal to win? We're seeing his playing diminish year after year. I say we trade for a good, valuable star. What do you all think? Sounds like a great question for Howard Beck. I saw that coming.

Let's just start off with a quick caveat here. Predictions are not reports. I repeat, predictions are not reports predictions are not reports predictions are not reports um i had to tweet that the other day raja um predictions are not reports so last week we did have a roundtable on the ringer dot com about some predictions for the off season and i i said jimmy vatler will be traded because that's been something that teams rival teams have been buzzing about for months and it's because of that there's a contract standoff um an extension that he is he is eligible for he's got a year left on his deal. So there's the awkwardness of that if he doesn't get extended. I don't think you want an unhappy, unexended Jimmy Butler on your hands. And there's age and injury issues with Jimmy Butler.

And, you know, Miami's had a really good run since getting him in 2019. Like this team made two finals that nobody on earth expected them to make. And they're constantly overachieving. But there's limits to that. They really need a third star. They tried. They couldn't get Dame Lillard. And is Jimmy and Bam together? And Jimmy at this age, he's turning. I think it's 35 in September. Jimmy and Bam, minus or absent a third star, good enough to overtake Boston or good enough to overtake Philly,

if Philly gets Paul George. Are they good enough to beat the Rising Knicks? No. Are they going to even keep up with teams like the Pacers or the Cavs? Maybe. Maybe. But they're, but it's like the heat are,

they're one of those like championship or bust franchises, right? we know what Pat Riley's about. So, and there's some risk, right? If you extend Jimmy at a max deal for a couple of years, he's played, I think it's 73% or something of his games, regular season games the last few years. He's usually available in the playoffs. That's good. But like, the heat are constantly behind the eight ball when it comes to the playoffs because they never have home court because they're always a lower seed in part because Jimmy doesn't play the entire season. and so like that's not sustainable in perpetuity.

So I, to me, they're at an inflection point. Like this is a pivot point. Bam is still young and a guy you can build around. They've got some other young players. I'm not saying they should trade Jimmy Butler, but it would make absolute sense to me if this was the moment where they decided to, while he still has value and is healthy, flip him for younger pieces and or picks and start a bit of a retool.

Like they're not a high seed anyway and haven't been the last. last couple of years. And let's face it, they run to the finals last year. I'm not calling it a fluke, but it was highly unusual and highly unlikely to be repeated. Are Miami corresponded? What do you think? No, I agree with what Howard said. I think, you know, that heat culture and, and the competitiveness and the grit and the, you know, standard that they have, quite frankly,

can be all positive until it's not. And now you're at this point where there's a real ceiling on who you are, even if Jimmy's great and you pay him with what you have. And so all of those things that have made that team great, you know, are standing in the way to some degree of you being able to make that tough call of like, hey, we usually don't do this, but now might be the time. And I do think it's the time. I'm with Howard.

I just don't know what it maxed out Jimmy at this point, who has gotten to two finals, right, but hasn't won any. And those finals, like, again, those are kind of Cinderella story finals. I don't know what that looks like. So, you know, I think it's one of those things where probably the time to do that. I don't know what they will do, though. I'll also say this, Rajah, tell me if you disagree. But, like, I think Jimmy at this stage of his career,

and actually even the last few years, but certainly now going forward, he'd be awesome as somebody's number two or number three. And I just like, but as a number one, like I think you've squeezed as much as you possibly can out of Jimmy as a number one. And I'm not even sure at his peak

if he charted out as the prototypical number one. But he'd be a freaking awesome, you know, number two or number three to a team that already has a younger, more potent, leading guy. Yeah, really interesting guy, though, not to make this a bigger conversation.

as a number two or three because so dominant personality-wise. Yes. That, you know, like just an interesting thing, right? Like, he be... Would he be good on the Pacers? I kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah.

I kind of like that. It would never happen, obviously, but like... Yeah, but that's a team that actually... Yeah, go ahead. They actually have a little bit of edge and swagger anyway, so in some ways, like, he just might bring out the best of that, right? Like, Tyrese likes to talk shit and, like, Miles Turner's got... Got some, there's some attitude in that team.

I kind of like him. Yeah. What's the next question, Kai? Next one's from Paul. He says, since it's the offseason and the draft is just around the corner, I have to ask about the Rockets. This team has been pretty depressing since James Hardin was getting into fights with his own team trying to get traded.

But last season gave me some real hope, and I'm optimistic that the playoffs are coming soon as they continue to climb back. Given this draft is not supposed to be great, should the Rockets try to trade the number three pick and maybe a player to get another veteran to put them squarely in playoff contention? I don't know. I think on one hand,

I'm even just thinking through this out. Like on one hand, it's like, sure, why don't you get a veteran? But also, I feel like he'll be too early to do that, right? Because, like, I think this is a team that is still finding itself, even with the MAUD, even with, like, the push that they made.

I think they won 14 or last 21 last year. I think they should just stay the course and see what another year looks like before they make any moves because I don't know how much last year told the world about them. What do you think, Rasha? Yeah, I like that. I like that.

I think it's too early. Yeah, I'm playing around with the idea of it, but I would fall on. It's probably just a little early for that. You know, I don't know the draft, like full disclosure. I was trying to look up like who was projected at number three. Like I don't really know that.

That's not my wheelhouse. But it feels like it's a little early for that. They've got a lot of youth already. They kind of like last summer, I liked that they tried to kind of give them a little bit more or just accelerate things by bringing in Fred Van Bleet and Jeff Green. Like, okay, we need some vets who know what it's about and who have won championships and what, like they needed that. I'm glad they did that.

But trading, what was the number three, right? So trading like the number three pick to get somebody like, are you sacrificing too much potential upside? They already have a lot of use. So like I wouldn't be against it. I mean, as with everything else, it really depends on like, oh, who are you getting? Right. So if you're going to put that in play, it's more a matter of who are you getting. Is there an urgency to do it right now?

No, they just made like a 22 win leap last season anyway. There are a 500 team that's kind of knocking on the door of the play in. Could you just kind of like slow play this, let your guys develop? a little bit more and wait for some of these teams to fall out, right? Because the Lakers and clippers are kind of wonky right now. The Warriors are on the edge. There's teams that are going to like start to crumble soon and your path will be there and you'll be peeking just as some of these veteran teams start to fade. They got to figure out who they're like guy is right now. Like is it going to be Jalen Green? Is it going to be some of the other guys? You know,

like, Shangoon is also heard. I don't know. But like who's going to, they, they were good in way that a young team is good. They played harder than everyone at a certain point during the regular season. That matters for something, especially when they went on their run, that's usually the time where I was going to test it, just when a lot of teams take their foot off the gas, right? You get a lot

of wins just by playing harder and, you know, trying to make a run in that way. I still don't know if they have an identity yet. I still don't know who their best player is. I still don't know who their second best player is. I just know that they're well coached and they play hard. And that mounts to something, but like they have to have their defined

roles and define place of where they're going to be before they start making drastic deals at this point. What we got next? All right. This is the last one. This one's from Dennis. It starts with a preface.

So if you want to comment on this first before the question, be my guess. Logan, as a high-ranking officer in the grammar police, even I give you a free pass when you were mispronouncing continuity. I knew the intent of your words, so you were still effectively communicating.

It's not my attention to pile on or troll you. But while we're on the subject of your personal growth and Roger's merits as a friend, I've heard you pronounce precedent as president a few times in the past. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. If not, we can go to the question. It's up to you. I'll never escape this.

I'm sorry, guys. I apologize. I'll just be talking, man. Shit. I don't think, and I'm going to shoot Roder some bail. What the fuck is he going to do? What is he going to say? Okay?

We're in the midst of a conversation. conversation. This pot would suck if every time we'd be like, well, actually, Logan, you said a fucked up word. Yeah. We would just probably be three hours long. Yeah. I mean, like, come on, man.

Hey, man. You're like, Raj. I would just say, I would just say to like the people doing the ground police, man. Just listen to the show, bro. We're having fun. Please just have some fun, bro. Like, it's literally all I got to say. But the fact that he's been here, he's heard it means he's tapped in, man.

And we do appreciate that. I appreciate that. Thanks, hon. Thanks for being a real one in that regard. Straight up. Let's just have some fun guys. Let's have some fun. Do you see what Kerm did?

This is all Kerm's fault. Shout out Kerm. Kerm just divided us. And didn't show today too. Hurt. Just kidding, I love Kerm. It seems that, this is a question, it seems that J.J. Reddick being hired

as the new coach guarantees that LeBron will resign with the Lakers. To me, that ensures two things. LeBron will retire a Laker and with four rings. At this point in his career, do you think that leaving L.A. to play with Brani would be a bigger addition to LeBron's legacy. I don't think another ring in L.A.,

if it were to happen, makes him a Lakers legend and doesn't move the needle on the goat conversation. And I personally think that playing with Brony would at least make his legacy unique and cooler thoughts. Yeah, I mean, how much would, like, the first NBA player to play with his son go into his ultimate legacy as, like, a goat?

I don't know. I think it would certainly add an element to it. pretty it would be pretty cool to see um i would i would agree with the other part about you know like you're kind of fate is sealed if you retire a laker at least in my estimation um in terms of championships i i think he could add to it the only way i think he really adds to it and i've said this before is if he's able to go somewhere where where where he's able to be a driving force and then winning a championship um that they hadn't been able to secure in the last few years and if he's was able to do that again for a fourth stop,

I think that enhances his legacy. But I mean, I don't see situations out there necessarily like that. I don't even know what to make it this one. Let me go with the LeBron and Bronty thing first. It's great for them. It's fun for them. I don't think it has anything to do with anything NBA related.

Like, okay, he's stuck around long enough to play with your son. Your son was good enough to make it in the league. Cool. Like, that's great for the James family. That's debatable. That's debatable. Well, we'll see, right? But that's great for the James family.

It has very little impact on anything else. It's a fun story for a little bit if it were to happen. I don't think LeBron himself, if he thought the Lakers could win a championship this year, would leave to join Brony in, you know, Charlotte or something and sacrificed a chance to win a title for the chance to play with this. I just, I don't think that's happening. In terms of his, like, where he isn't like the Laker Pantheon,

like that's up to Laker fans to determine. but yeah, I mean, he wasn't there as long as a lot of the other Laker greats and not as many rings as the other Laker grates. So I think it's just the kind of the basic math that LeBron's probably never going to be quite regarded by Laker fans. Again, it's up to them to decide this. I'm not a Laker fan. But like if Laker fans, if I'm reading them correctly over the years, I don't think

they're ever going to put him in the same tier with, you know, Kobe Shack, Magic, Kareem, Jerry West, everybody else because of longevity issues and just overall achievements there. Most of LeBron's resume was built elsewhere, and that's not going to change. It's just going to be interesting to see how L.A. treats him post-career, or how that relationship goes, because, I mean, me and Howard talked about this, I think, in February. I think we had like a whole pod just on LeBron. We were both in New York. When I think about his legacy in L.A., it was something that was,

it just always seems like an arranged marriage, right? Like it doesn't seem like, I don't, I think when this is all said and done, I don't think that there's going to be a lot of people that are happy on both sides with this, right? There's going to be a lot of angst. There's going to be at least the appearance that, you know, he got a coach in place with,

with JJ Reddick, that's just the last of what just happened. And then you, you know, you force feed Brani onto this team. And this is the proud franchise, right? Like, that's going to leave a mark when history looks back on this of what LeBron did and both how the relationship went. And when I see the relationship with LeBron in L.A., it just seems like he was trying to, what he does on a lot of organizations and a lot of cities, which is, you know, force either his way of thinking or what he wants to be done into the organization and inject his

influence into said organization. And I don't think it's going to work out the way that he thought it was going to work out, both from a Lakers legacy standpoint and in Los Angeles standpoint, man. I see him trying to force his way into a lot of conversations when it comes to the city. I see him try to force his way into a lot of things on the team that quite frankly, he hasn't really earned. He just hasn't.

He's won the title, but if you look at the rest of his Lakers tenure, it wasn't that fruitful. And he bucked up a lot of stuff that, whether it's his age or his things, but he did a lot of things that, you know,

he didn't follow through on with the Lakers. And for it to end in the way with at least the appearance that he put in a very unexperienced coach like JJ Reddick and then got this team to draft his son just for his sheer presence and not because he won anything, but just sheer the fact that he is LeBron James. I think that's going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. It's going to be interesting to see that relationship and how it unfolds. And I don't think it's going to be as good as LeBron wants it to.

So we'll see. That was a very somber way to end this mailbag, especially, especially, as far. Especially for Third Ikeye, who was a big Lakers fan. I apologize and I mean to send you off of that way. But anyways, third Ikeye, we love you. Thanks so much for, you know, hold it down for the last two years. You're the shit. We look forward, including Roger, looks forward to seeing what you do on the prestige podcast feed.

That means a lot, Roger. You guys have been. One last shout out. I got a shout out, Kerm and Eddie. You guys are in the best hands possible. Eddie couldn't give him a bigger cosign and you guys already know Kerm. Yeah, man. We're excited for this new journey, bud.

It's going to be exciting. Okay, we have given, I'm looking at the clock right now, an hour and 17 minutes. Raja fell asleep. He sent a P sign. He's no longer at the SLS in the Bahamas. He is back at home and it is shown. There's no coffee. There's nothing.

Quick programming note. No podcast on Friday. We'll be back Monday. We will see you next Monday. We'll see. I don't know who's going to be back. I know I'll be there. We'll see if Farage is going to be there.

We'll see if Beck's going to be there. I have no idea. Howard's shaking his head. No, we got a lot to figure out. Welcome to you guys soon. All the shits. Bye. Let's be 21 years and older, 18 years and older in D.C.

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