The Ringer NBA Show - Does Steph Curry’s Broken Hand Equal Tank for the Warriors? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 1, 2019

Two-time MVP Stephen Curry broke his hand this week—will the mighty Warriors wave the white flag on this season after a slow start and the loss of their superstar (3:42)? Plus: We run through a list of guys who have had incredible starts and discuss whether they can sustain their torrid paces (40:15). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the NBA show on the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws at you. Unpredictable outcomes like Tristan Thompson starting off the season, averaging crazy numbers. Kendrick Nunn starting off like a house of fire for the Miami Heat. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance.

Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, aka Kevin O Conflict, AKA Kevin O'C. Kevin O'C. Kevin O'Chammer, aka Kevin O'Campure, Kevin O'Chyl. Kevin O'Hredder. Kevin. Burno, I love that comment today on my Instagram post. That made me laugh.

That was good. for those of you that do not know, Kevin O'Connor posted on Instagram a solo, a guitar solo that I am being dead honest with you. I was blown away. I didn't know you were that good at playing guitar. I knew you played guitar. I didn't know you were a virtuoso. I'm not a virtuoso, but it was fun to do a cover of the guitar solo and the song, Time by Pink Floyd. One of my all-time favorite songs. by my all-time favorite band. So I posted that today. All right, real quick, before we get into all the basketball, because we are going to. I want to know, what age did you start playing guitar? I started playing in January of 07, so I was 16 at the time.

Oh, wow. And you took lessons, like, to the point where you, do you read music? No, no, I don't read music. I learned, you know, from like little books and online. There was this one teacher that I really was into. I wish this was a wish this were a hashtag ad

but it's not Justin Sandroco of JustinGatarr.com is I think one of the best easiest follow to follow teachers on the internet and everything's free

on his website so it's been free as long as I've been playing and the site's gotten better over the years so if anybody's picking up guitar now or wants to pick up guitar and they're worried about

learning or finding a teacher Justin Sandercoe Justin Guitar.com is someone who helped teach you me, the basics, and I think a lot of other people can learn from him too. For goodness sakes, Justin, cut the check.

He's great, man. He's awesome. It's a good thing to have in your life playing. Because you play yourself, too, Chris. Yeah, but I just know like tabs. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know, you know, I know probably 10 chords, which so I can play, you know,

I don't know. 80% of all songs. Yeah, exactly. That's all you mean. I ain't shredding solos. I promise you that. That's all you need, though. All you need to have a good time playing guitar is to know like five chords. And you can play literally anything. Just put a cable on the guitar and transpose.

And if you love country music, you only need to know three. It's the truth. In a couple months, you can be playing songs by the campfire with all your friends. You know, it's not, it just takes time and patience. We got a lot of stories that we need to get to, the biggest of which is for sure. Steph Curry, broke his left hand. So one of the biggest superstars in the league is gone with a broken hand. We still don't have, as of time of recording late on Thursday night, we don't have a timeline on this.

But it's not going to be a quick heel. I mean, he is going to be out for an extended amount of time for sure. It's just a matter of how long he is going to be out with the broken hand. And with that comes a debate about the Golden State Warriors who frankly were off to a terrible start anyway without Steph Curry. They are one and three. They have the third worst point differential in the entire NBA. And there's, you know, the headlines around with Joe Lekub saying, we are never going to tank. We do not believe in tanking.

You know, we're never going to. We don't believe in. losing on purpose, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's the truth, Kevin. They don't have to intentionally do anything. They already sucked before they lost their best player. And so I get, you know, the culture and want to win and don't believe in losing on purpose. They're not going to have a choice in the matter.

It's just a matter of how bad it gets for them. And I've got to believe that we are going to see on a nightly basis. this team getting absolutely slaughtered, don't you? Well, it's all off the Dream on Green now. I mean, it's good luck to Golden State at this point. I mean, one of the reasons why I was optimistic about Golden State entering the season was Stephen Curry, expecting him to have an unbelievable season.

I was hoping that Steve Kerr would make some revisions to the offense, and granted they are running slightly more pick and roll. It's like we talked about on Tuesday show, Chris. They're not, they haven't changed that much. And with Golden State now, without Steph Curry, I find it somewhat comical what Joe Lakey said to Ramona Shelburne after that game where he said tanking is, quote, against everything I and we stand for. It's hilarious because back in 2012, they deliberately tanked at the end of the season in order to keep their first round draft pick, which turned out to be Harrison Barnes. They tanked that year. And their last game in the year against the Spurs, they started five rookies, some of whom were,

cut from another G-League team during the season. During the season, they got cut. Well, I think a lot of people's opinions have changed over the course of the last seven years because of the widespread nature of it. Obviously, it was extreme in Philadelphia. Of course. This was pre-process. Yeah.

And there were other teams that did it too. But it wasn't so in our face and it wasn't a big topic. It was just like a team that's going to have a bad record anyway, ends up losing a lot of games in the last, say, 20 games of the season. It wasn't like we're going into this season intentionally being terrible and we are going to put out a terrible product for an entire length of season, an entire season. And because that became so blatant and then other teams did follow suit not as extreme, but still extreme, that, I do think I don't want to kill Lek of so much because the idea that he would have a different thought process in 2012 than he does in 2019 is totally reasonable. I would tell you that I do, I do have a different thought process. And I think a lot of fans do. Because if you are, right, it was never so in your face. And it certainly was not talked about. Right. And, and then when it became so overt,

then people started to care more about people losing on purpose, you know, and thinking it was bad for the game. You're right. It doesn't matter. And it's not like he's going to admit to any reporter. Yeah,

we're tanking. We're going to tank. We're going to sign a bunch of G-League guys, even though we already have a bunch on the roster. They already do. It's not like you're going to say that anyway. I just found it funny, that's all. Because for this team, I think ultimately,

tank or not, if Steph Curry ends up having surgery and he's out for longer than just, you know, three, four weeks, it's pretty clear for this team at that point. If you're not making the postseason, and if you're not even really in the conversation for the postseason, because in the West this year,

any amount of missed time from a star player, even if it's Lillard and the Blazers or AD on the Lakers or Kauai in the Clippers, any star player on any team, if there's any slippage for a short amount of time, your chances that making the playoffs are heavily in doubt. And that's true for the Warriors now. And if you're not making the postseason, when you're Golden State and you have a lack of cap flexibility coming up, you have iffy assets.

I mean, with Draymond Green, who knows how valued he would be across the league. With DeAngel Russell, there would be value. But we'll see how he continues to develop over the course of the season after a slow start. For Golden State, you need another guy. And for them, that guy, best case scenario is somebody who comes in the draft. And there's not necessarily, people are saying this is like 96, 97 Spurs, where David Robinson gets hurt and then the Spurs draft Tim Duncan. This is not that because that player does not exist in this year's draft class.

It is a good draft and there are good prospects, but there is not an all-time great, no-brainer, number one pick like a Duncan, like an AD. There's not that player. So for the Golden State Warriors, worst-case scenario, know you suck, you get like the fourth or fifth pick. Maybe you end up with number one and you draft the player that maybe can turn into somebody for you to help continue this run. Or maybe you get a guy who uses an asset to get that guy who's going to help you out.

Yeah, I mean, and as we know, the odds are such now. I mean, for going to sake, you know, you had teams like the Knicks end up on the outside of the top two picks. This past year is the Pelicans and the Grizzlies that end up getting the top two picks. and they didn't have close to the worst records. And so the guarantee is much less than it was before. The odds are so open now that, you know, look, they're going to lose a boatload of games anyway. One thing that I did think about is, you know, you kind of brought up Steve Kerr, which is an interesting thing to bring up in our show on Tuesday. And Kerr really gets off the hook on this.

He had already lost Clay Thompson. but expectations were not super duper high for the Warriors, but he and Steph, for that matter, were going to be in the spotlight more because in Steph's case, people are going to say, oh,

well, if he's a true superstar, why can't he carry this team, you know? But Kerr was an interesting one that you brought up, which is the ability to coach this team. I was listening to Agent Wojianowski with Rissilo, and they kind of got off,

talking about this just a bit. And one of the things that Woj said, which I found very interesting, was he said it'll be fascinating to watch Kerr coach this team because there are coaches for situations. And he brought up Steve Clifford. He said, you know, they grinded out every win in Orlando. And when he had some talent in Charlotte, he did the same thing in Charlotte. And that's the kind of coach that's great for that kind of a team. Kerr was very good with egos and massaging the egos and getting those guys to play as a unit.

But he said that that team didn't even practice. Like that team was not a practice team. And that team was not. So it's a totally different situation where you're having to have practices for the first time probably in three, four years. And, you know, it was also going to come into the spotlight. You know, Steve was out and Mike Brown won every damn game. in the playoffs. And Steve was out and Luke Walton had the best record you could possibly have as an NBA coach.

And things have gone dramatically terrible for Luke in L.A. and now with the Kings. And we saw him coach like they were unbeatable with Luke Walton on the sideline. They were unbeatable in a playoff run with Mike Brown on the sideline. And this was going to be somewhat of a referendum. on what we think about Kerr when he wasn't given, he wasn't dealt two aces right off the bat. But we're not going to see that. Like, that's completely off the hook now.

And so the evaluation of Kerr is going to be impossible, I think. Yeah, it sort of is right now. I mean, like, it's very difficult to- Because nobody could win with this team. Nobody. No, I mean, look, you still want to see the players get maximized. You still want to see guys get better. It's like we talked about again on Tuesday.

They have a bunch of young players, a bunch of G-leaguers, but I don't think this team lacks young talent. It's just young, and young talent tends not to do well in the NBA. So it's like with Jordan Poole over the course of the season, you want to see him continue to improve his shot selection. You want to see his defense improve. You want to see Eric Paskill start doing some of the things that he did at Villanova as a versatile bowling ball big man, you know, 6-6,

but really he's a 4 or 5 type. You want to see some of these, young guys get better. You want to see Daniel Russell start to give effort on defense. And you want to see him, you know, start to incorporate more ball movement, natural ball movement into his system rather than dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, which he got used to doing in Brooklyn.

And rightfully so, because he was good. But you want to see this improvement over time. There is talent there. It's just right now, it looks like a bunch of garbage together. And part of that's on Kerr. Part of it's on Myers. Part of that's just on the circumstances that this team didn't have cap flexibility because they're paying the price for five years straight of dominance.

And that's what happens. But right now, to your point, Chris, I'll circle back to that. Yes, it's hard to evaluate Steve Kerr right now with this roster without Stefan Curry because that's what everything orbited around. A couple other injuries that have taken place since we last spoke.

The Trey Young one looked really bad, I thought, live. I was scared, man. And it turned out as good as it could possibly have turned out. You know, there were reports after it by the next morning that if it were the playoffs that Trey Young would be able to play the next day for goodness sakes, which I never envisioned.

You never particularly know the severity of a sprained ankle until the next day. But live, I mean, that was a big turn and he was not putting any weight on it. So it was kind of shocking, but also incredibly relieving to have that news come out about a player that started out. so scorching hot at the beginning of the year. And they need him so badly as I watch them play against the Miami Heat tonight. Another one, Miles Turner, who has got an ankle and injury, and he is being described as week to week.

So, you know, with any of these guys, as you were talking about, any amount of games and losing games, you never know what's going to be the margin that either, makes a playoffs for you or determines a seed. But in the Trey Young side, turns out very good. Miles Turner, that's not real good for Indiana, for sure. One thing about Atlanta, but I just have to say, I saw you tweet out the Cam Reddish highlight from tonight,

the double spin move. I've never seen that. I've been watching basketball my whole life. I have never seen that move. I mean, granted, this is like an audio podcast, but Cam Reddish, he attacked a close. out. I think he was being defended by Tyler here where he crossed over

dribbling towards his left and he spun back to his right once and he kind of like pirouetted again and split the second time and before throwing up like this type of layup that like you or me would do at the park you know what I mean?

It was yeah I actually and he missed for once worth yeah I am offended that you think I would take that shot I mean, I don't know. What's your game like, Chris? Not taking bad shots is drilled into me. I can't.

I'm not taking that crap. Not shooting is drilled into me. I would never get back on the court if I took that shot. If you're Cam Redis, you can get away with it because you are supremely talented. Guys like me, you take that shot. You ain't playing. Yeah. Yeah.

I know that that's true. You're off the court at that point. You better, you better just take the open ones or keep that ball moving, my guy. Swing, swing. It better be swing because of burning shooting it, he better be wide-ass open. This dude did two pirouettes and then just chucked up some garbage at the ramp. I've never seen such a thing, Kevin. It's been a struggle for Reddish early on in this career.

I'm not going to say that I'm worried because it's so early here. but it's a continuation of the struggles that he had at Duke. You know, he, he had balance issues on drives to the rim in high school and in college, still does now. He has issues finishing and elevating in traffic. What freaked me out, I tell you this, what freaked me out about him is when I was doing all that stuff for the draft and getting ready for it. Somebody relayed a story to me that you remember that game, they had a huge, NCAA tournament game, where they got to the game and you're watching the game and you're like,

where is Cam Reddish? There were like no reports that he was going to be sitting out or anything and that he went to the arena that day and then like went into them and was like, I can't play today. Oh, yeah. And they were like, what the hell? Like they were all like, what? He's like, I don't, I don't feel right or whatever. I mean, this is like, you know, you play the whole season to get to the NCAA tournament, right? I can't remember what game it is. maybe it's the second round. I mean, people could go look it up.

But he didn't even tell them until like two hours before the game that he wasn't playing in the game. I remember that. And it was his choice and everybody was like, what? So that always freaked me out big time, big time. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I like, I like Cam. He's a good kid. I mean, I remember I've heard stuff like when RJ and Cam went to college together at Duke. I remember hearing stuff such as RJ works 15. 20,000 times harder than Cambronnish in terms of love for the game.

Oh, and you would know you're Kevin O. Cameron crazy. That was fun. That was a fun time. Being in the crowd amongst the Cameron crazies. I shouldn't have been there, but it was fun. All right. We touched on the trade thing. Back to the Miles Turner thing because we had brought up for Pacers on Tuesday. It's a tough go because they're still waiting to get Ola Depot back. Brogden's been out of his mind to start the season. reason, but going for weeks without Miles Turner is going to be very difficult for a team that is

not extremely deep. They need not only Miles Turner, they need Miles Turner to be awesome to be able to get by in the meantime. And so not having him available is a tough spot for Indiana. Sure. Though, I will say in that game, granted, there wasn't a lot of defense being played by the Brooklyn Nets. Sabona's looked pretty awesome with more minutes at the five, where that's always been the question. How do you integrate both DeMontas Sabonis and Miles Turner? When they're both on the court together, they've had issues with defense

because Sabonis is not great on the perimeter and you don't want to pull Turner away from the interior. And then on offense, it's not ideal to have those two big, sort of where they're overlapping, sometimes clashing offensive skill sets. But Sabonis had 29 points in that game. It looked really awesome with more of the offense being run through him. And I think him and Malcolm Brogden make a pretty good.

good tandem together, Brogson, who has continued to be great so far this season. I can't help but think like Kevin, you watch that kid, you know, Sabonis, since he's been with the Pacers, obviously a radically different player. But, and he has reshaped his body every single year. But it is absolute malpractice to think about how they were attempting to develop him in Oklahoma City. I mean, do you remember he didn't go to the free throw line until like December of his rookie year because they just had him out at the three point line shooting threes all the time.

It was crazy. That kid is so good from 10 feet in. I mean, he's an amazing player from 10 feet in. And they just put him out in the corner and had him shooting threes. And he wasn't a good three point shooter either. And he shot him at a high volume. And he was terrible. And it was like, geez.

And nobody blinked an eye when he was included in that deal with Oladipo in the Paul George deal. And now you look back and you know, that's if anything, it's a fair deal. And with the way it all played out, you would have to say Indiana got the best of it

as it has played out for the, you know, two years later. Well, with Paul George leaving. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. So bonus, I don't, I think in that Oklahoma City situation, it would have been nice if he were hitting those threes. I think there's

little... They didn't have him doing what he was good at. It was tough. I mean, you have Stephen Adams on that roster. You're Russell Westbrook pounding there out of the ball

and rightfully so. For Sabonis, it's almost like he had to be put into that spot-up position. But that's beside the point. Now with Indiana, he's in his ideal role besides the fact he's still not

shooting enough threes. Besides that, though, this is what you want to see from him. And with Sabonis at the 5, it's just going to be... Look, Sabonis and Turner are both very good players. I just think,

Indiana, it's ideal if they can flip one of those guys for a wing or a forward. And I know earlier in the summer, Bill Simmons and I talked about this on his pod, the idea of flipping Sabonis for Jaylon Brown. I'm not sure if Boston would do that. I don't know if Indiana would do that. But usually when, you know, both fan bases are like no to a deal and you're not sure if something would work, that tends to be when the deals are most fair. And for Sabonis, we'll see, man. I think he's a really good player who when he's playing the five is at his best. And I hope for these next couple weeks or however long Miles Turner is out, we do see that

side of him. But then when Turner comes back, that's when things get really, really interesting to me. Because at that point, will they find a way to incorporate them both, or is it going to go back to the way it just was before he was hurt with just this real clunky fit that didn't work? Or maybe it doesn't work with him after five.

But I think this offense makes more sense with the Brogden and Sabone's pick and roll running actions through DeMontas. I'd move off a Turner before I moved all Sabon. Interesting. Why is that? I'm curious. I'm just a huge Sabonis fan. I think he just continues

to get better and better and better every time you see him. You value the playmaking ability that he has kind of like that short role can hit guys after jumble.

I think modern NBA. You know what I mean? I think for this modern NBA, I do think that he is the more skilled player. And I think there is a value on having a guy with that level of skill.

And he rebounds like hell too. For what it's worth, I'm with you. I think with Miles Turner, he's a very... I like Turner. I like Turner. He's a very, very good defensive player, but one of his weaknesses is post-defense. And if you're thinking about the value in Turner, obviously shot blocking and altering shots is great. But with his size, you really need him in a serious against an imbid.

or Yokic. And if he's not excelling in that regard, his value is diminished. I'd rather have Sabonis long term. I think Sabonis is the rare kind of guy that we're going to look up in a year or two. In fact, you can already do it now. I can throw that guy the ball down on the block

and think I'm getting a bucket. End of story. I do not feel that way with Miles Turner. I feel like I've got to set up his bucket. I think Sabonis can be a guy that can score on his man. You throw him the ball, he can get you a bucket.

And Turner is more, you know, I mean, he's not an unskilled player. I'm just saying, I don't throw him the ball to get me a basket, I don't think,

especially in big spots. And I'm not saying he won't, because don't, don't somebody out there send me a friggin Miles Turner a game winner that they threw to him, even though they won't. But I'm not saying it cannot happen.

I'm saying that when you get into big playoffs here, I do think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, a bonus is awesome. I do. I'm just a huge fan. I am too. I think, I think, like you said, in a couple years, we're going to look up, assuming he's in that right situation, be like, whoa, this guy got really, really good, really quickly. Well, he's got the bloodline. We know that. Dad was a freak. Unbelievable. I mean, by all accounts. I mean, we didn't even see him in the NBA until it was way past prime. But you read any of those old basketball books and this guy would have been one of the all time, all time NBA. greats. He obviously was an all-time great playing where he did. Carl Towns and Joel and B got into a fight. You see that? That was fun. I enjoyed that. Did you think that Ben Simmons' rear naked choke?

You have been big on what hand he shoots with. Did you have an opinion? Did you have an opinion on how he administered the rear naked choke armwise? Well, it's like my good friend and coworker, Jason Concepcion. network tweeted. It was a right-handed. Very interesting. He used a right-handed rear-naked choke. He used his right arm to choke Carl Anthony Towns. Just a very interesting choice.

It's not the first time we've seen Ben use his right-hand in situations such as that. He throws the ball with his right-in-hand. And in an interview with Jimmy Fallon, he picked up the sandwich with his right-in-hand and ate it alone with his right-hand. Do you think that he tapped out, Carl Towns? No. I don't think so. from looking at multiple angles, he was, you know, hitting his feet up and down and slapping his hands.

I don't think he was tapping out. I think he was just kind of pushing back. Who would you bet on in the octagon? Simmons or towns? Are we talking to Bede here? No, and Bede. Mbid or towns? Yes. Um, hmm. In the octagon. So this, I was thinking boxing originally. Oh, no. We're just warfare.

Okay. In the octagon. Boy, this is tough. I feel like it would be not a great fight. I feel like Towns really needs to work on his jiu-jitsu. I think it's the type of fight. It would be like $100 pay per view and it would not be entertaining. Really? You think it would not be entertaining?

I don't think it would be. I'm not sure. I don't think either of these guys are good fighters. I don't know what price you could put on that, that I would not buy it. I would buy it too. I don't think there is. I don't think there's. I mean, honestly, I'd probably just watch the illegal stream, but that's beside the point.

If you told me it was $300 to watch. No way. Carl Towns versus Joe. Oh, I'd come on. I have an absolutely fake. You could do so much better for yourself or for others with $300 and spend it on. Carl Anthony Towns versus Joel and Bid. 300 bucks. Come on.

Just watch the illegal stream at that point. No, I don't like taking money out of people that produce entertainment's pockets. I know. I feel terrible. But 300 bucks though? Come on. Kevin O. Napster.

All right. Or lime wire. Is Napster still a thing by the way? I don't know. I don't think it is. All right. Two games each. I thought they would get more,

I thought they would get suspended more than that, honestly. No, Napster's a streaming service now. Oh, interesting. Where you actually pay for it. Oh, okay. So they've pivoted to, from a legal to legal. Wow.

No wonder I haven't heard of it. So anyways, back to the two-game suspension, I did not think that that was, I thought that was less. I thought they would get like five. I mean, I remember years ago when Carmelo punched Marty Collins, it was like 15 games. So I didn't think it was going to be like that. But, you know, these guys didn't throw punches kind of. I guess Towns kind of threw a punch. at the beginning.

But I do wonder, you know, what a suspension would be like now if somebody did connect on a punch because years ago, and that's a long time ago now, Carmelo got 15 games when he punched a guy. So I thought they would get more, I don't know, maybe I was just off on that. But I was expecting maybe like four or five games. But they only got two, which clearly, I think you would agree with this, affects Minnesota much more than Philadelphia. I need to look at what Minnesota's next two are that he will be out for.

But, you know, Minnesota has, you know, fancies himself as a playoff contender, and they've started off well at 3 and 1. And we know that the difference between, you know, the 3 and the 8 seed could very well be one or two games at Washington. So they're lucky on that and burst Milwaukee, which they probably lose anyway. so it may not affect them. I mean, I'd expect them to beat Washington even without towns, and I'd expect them to lose to Milwaukee, no matter who they had. I don't know about that, man.

We just saw Washington put up 158 points in a loss, in regulation to Houston. And they've been competitive. They were competitive against San Antonio when a loss. They beat Oklahoma City. You want to talk about an absolute defensive rating killer for Houston. I mean, you're never going to get that number down after 158. You give up 158.

I mean, getting that number down is going to be impossible. That was an extraordinary game. So extreme. But no, I would figure they would win at Washington. Maybe they lose that game that they would have had him. It's one to watch Saturday night. It's one to keep an eye on because if they don't have towns, maybe it's a different deal.

And I'm just saying at the end of the year, we may look back and say, geez, man, if he wouldn't have been suspended for those couple of games, maybe they're not on the outside looking in or whatever. Kevin Durant did an interview since we last spoke. He ruled out any chance of coming back, which I don't think anybody had any expectation of. And he also, I guess, finally spoke up on the Draymond Green,

calling him a bitch a thousand times, influenced him leaving, which is unsurprising to everyone, right? Like, I mean, the second that blow up happened, everybody knew that was a different deal than just a normal teammates getting into it, right? It's no surprise, Chris. If I started calling you that every single show, I'm sure that would affect our relationship. I mean, it's only natural.

We're all people. Nobody wants to deal with that. I think for Durant, though, he did touch on it, though. It was just time for a change. He did mention beyond that, you know, you look at the situation. It's like we just hit on earlier. He looked at Golden State and saw a lack of flexibility, and he looked at Brooklyn, and he saw a potentially better situation moving forward. He's not necessarily wrong about that.

Was he? I think probably the first thing he saw was if I go there, there's not a guy that's going to call me a bitch a lot. And he's probably right. I don't think there's anybody that would call him a bitch on Brooklyn, you know? And so I, we knew. We knew when he got into it with Draymond that, because remember the reports came out that Draymond said, we won without you anyway or we don't even need you, or something that effect, like something that, you know, when people get real mad and they say whatever the most hurtful

thing is, it feels like Draymond did that. And so it was, it was interesting to see him say, you know, look, I'm going to keep it real on this. Yeah, it affected it. And, you know, Draymond is the heart and soul of that team. And so, of course, that was going to be awkward from then on out, especially if you weren't just able to let it go. And you were really upset about it because I doubt that Draymond was ever the guy that's going to pull you to the side and see like, hey, man, I'm really sorry. I said that to you.

I don't think Draymond's that kind of a guy. We got to take a quick break when we come back. Kevin, I am going to ask you about some guys in the NBA that have done. gotten off to monster starts and whether or not you believe this is the the monster starts are just flash in the pan or we're going to look up and these guys actually have great, great seasons. We'll do that after these words. Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Roman. With two-thirds of guys experiencing noticeable hair loss by age 35, most guys assume losing their

hair is inevitable as they age. Some don't care. Some shave their head. Some embrace hats. What they don't know is there are FDA-approved medications designed to stop hair loss and even regrow hair. That's why we're excited to partner with our new sponsor, Roman. Roman makes it easy to get safe FDA-approved hair loss treatment all from your phone or computer. And when you go to getRoman.com slash ringer NBA, your online visit is free.

Consult with a U.S. licensed physician through their secure online platform. No awkward conversations with receptionists or reading bad magazines in the way to room. Once your doctor ensures that treatment is safe and effective for you, Roman's dedicated pharmacy can ship your medication to you for free, two-day shipping, indiscreet packaging. If you're noticing unwanted hair loss, starting treatment early is key, and Roman can help. And today, Roman is giving the Ringer MBA show listeners a free online visit at getRoman.com slash Ringer NBA. That's getRoman.com slash ringer NBA for a free visit to get started. Go to get roman.com slash ringer NBA.

All right, Kevin, we are going to get to some monster starts that have taken place for players around the league thus far this year. But first, we need to talk about the rookie of the year now that Zion is injured and who's got a real chance at that? Hey, Google, set a timer for two minutes. Sure, two minutes starting now. All right, Kevin. So if Zion is out and he's going to be out for an extended amount of time. I suppose it's possible he could come back and have a monster last 50, 60 games and still end up winning the award. But which of the next two picks do you think has a better chance?

John Morant in Memphis or RJ Barrett in New York. Through five games, it's RJ Barrett. What we've seen from him is pretty good effort on the defensive end of the floor, good playmaking. Knicks have put the ball in his hands and powered him to handle the ball. And good scoring from all levels. The one hesitation that I have with RJ so far is even though shots are falling for him from three-point range, shooting 42% from three, he's shooting only 40% from the free throw line. And that's a negative indicator for his shot moving forward.

I do think that RJ is more of the ready-made player for the NBA that he checks in right now and RJ can do what he does. not in charge of running a team. And that's what Morant has to do. I think that what you could find with Morant is much like we saw with Tray Young and we have seen with other players in the past that it's really the last 40, 50 games, maybe 40 or 30 games of the season where he could explode. Once they start to really figure things out. But they both, I mean, I think they're both going to have really good rookie years, don't you? And they have already. And the thing with John, Marant is he's also had some of the moments, right? Like he had that block against Kyrie Irving.

He had a moment. And he's going to, over the course of the season, make some spectacular passes that you don't see from rookie point guards too often. So with Jha, you know, maybe the raw numbers aren't there. But I think those assists are going to go up over the course of the year. Right now he's at five assists and five turnovers. That should improve for him over the course of the season. All right, Kevin.

So we mentioned Morant and RJ, who we both think are going to have. very good rookie years. But are there other first round picks that you think might have a chance at winning rookie of the year? And I'm going to let you go first. I'll let you have first crack at the names on this one. Hey, Google, set a timer for two minutes. Sure, two minutes.

Starting now. All right. Okay. I'm going with PJ Washington to start here. 12th pick in the draft by the Charlotte Hornets. He got better in his second college season with Kentucky. He got better defensively. He improved his outside jumper.

But this year with the Hornets, I mean, he's shooting over 50% from three, not sustainable. But his shot looks good. He's continuing to be a high effort, high intensity player. With him, he's not going to be necessarily the rookie of the year, but he's looking like an all-rooky team player. And maybe, maybe, you know, if that jumper continues improving, if maybe he's fed more opportunity, who knows with PJ Washington. but I've been highly, highly impressed with him. I'm going to tell you one that I've already gotten to see play in person this year, and that is Kobe White, and I was blown away.

He was better immediately than I thought he would be, and he is an absolute microwave with the ability to score, and then watching the Bulls after seeing him in person, and then playing Sataransky and Chris Dunn more minutes than him is just absolutely appalling to me. he is a hell of an athlete. He is totally under control when I saw him, and he can really, really score.

And so it should be sooner than later that he's getting big minutes because I know they are in win-node, win-now mode in Chicago, and they fancy themselves as being a team that can compete for the playoffs. The sooner they get Kobe White playing big minutes and in the starting lineup,

the sooner they'll be on that track. He's sort of the inverse of Matisse Thibble on the Philadelphia 76ers, who is shooting only 26% from 3 and 17% from 2, but he's putting up just absurd defensive numbers, already one of the better defensive players in the league as a 22-year-old rookie player, 20th pick. I'm loving Thiebel. There's a couple other names to keep an eye on.

All right, Kevin, so there's a bunch of guys in the NBA that have gotten off to monster starts. I'm going to ask you which of these you really believe in, not necessarily continuing the tour at pace that they are at, but possibly having the great seasons that they have shown might be possible through the first week of the season. And we'll start with a guy that we did not just speak about in our debate, but probably should have included a guy that went off tonight in a nationally televised game, and that is Kendrick Nunn, who going into tonight was average.

over 20 points per game while shooting 49% from the field, 44% from 3. And then tonight in his national TV game, he goes 10 for 15, 28 points. He gets the walk-off interview with Kristen Ledlow. And she notes, which I thought was incredible, he in his first five games of his career has scored more points, in the first five games that he has played than any undrafted rookie player ever.

Wow. How about that? Wow. How about that for a stat? Shout out to Ledlow for that one. Five games. Long hours on basketball reference to find that one. That's a good one.

Yeah. Five games. No undrafted player has ever scored more points in their first five games than Kendrick none. Unbelievable. Yeah. He has. been absolutely fantastic for Miami. He was carrying a bigger load when Jimmy Butler was out, but Butler's back now. And he got 28 in a game that Butler played in. And so you kind of look

at at this going, geez, man, this guy, watch him tonight. He looks like a walking bucket. Well, he has that nice lefty stroke and the ability to at least at worst create space for himself to get an opportunity to shoot a fairly open or semi-contested shot. And the question with him is going to be, not whether he sustains 48% from three shooting. If he continues just being at that level, it's an unsustainable pace. But the question is how far that number falls?

Because overtime in the G League last year with Santa Cruz Warriors or in college playing for Oakland University, the number, the three-point shot was more like around 30. 33 to 35, 36%, which is, you know, subpar average, whatever you want to call it. And with none, that's going to be the question. Has this shot improved? For real, he's always been a great free throw shooter. He's always had nice touch on floaters and layups.

Is this an area where his shot is actually better now and it's clicked for him? Because if it is, he's going to continue being just an absolute microwave score for the Miami Heat. Because not only that, though, he's playing some really gritty defense. I mean, you know, he's only six, too. He's a little bit undersized, but he's at least really, really hustling and trying hard part of that Miami Heat defensive culture. And that at least gives him a bit of a cushion where if the numbers do slip a little bit offensively, at least you know he's going to continue giving it or hope he continues giving it on the defensive end.

We didn't mention him in the last thing, Chris, but he may arguably be. In fact, I would say he should be the rookie of the year if we were voting today. Well, after four games. But I tried to look back and I was like, why don't I know more about this guy? See, I love the coach at Oakland, Greg Campy. And I used to watch those teams with Kay Felder that he had, the guy is one of the best press conference coaches in the world,

Greg Campy. And they've had some really good teams at Oakland. But I was like, how do I not know about this guy? and I did what a lot of people are going to do during the course of this year and somebody's inevitably going to write it the sooner than later. I went back and looked. So he went to Simeon High School, which is one of the great powerhouse basketball schools in Chicago. The same one that Derek Rose went to, same one that Benji Wilson, the star of that 30 for 30 who tragically passed in high school, went to Bobby Simmons, went there. and also Jabari Parker went there.

I was about to say Jabari. Of which, of which Kendrick Nunn was his teammate, and they won four straight state titles. And the big division, they won four straight titles. He was Jabari Parker's running mate there. He ends up going to Illinois. Junior year has a very good year.

And then he gets a bad domestic violence case. And he ends up doing counseling and he ends up doing community service and you just hope becomes a changed person. But Illinois got rid of him and he was an outstanding player. And they got rid of him. And then he ends up showing back up at Oakland. And when he plays at Oakland, he was second in the country in scoring to Trey Young a few years back. And he was first in NCAA in three-pointers that year. So it's not like he was totally off the radar.

I mean, he was a second leading scorer in all of college basketball only to Tray Young. And yet undrafted player. And then you don't really hear about him. And you do have to wonder if, you know, people were scared off by character or whatever it may be concerned because you watch him play basketball. He was a four-star recruit, too. So he's a four-star recruit who was really good in college, who ended up being the second leading score in the NCAA. A and nobody wanted any part of him. And so here's hoping that, you know, the errors of youth are not something that he has to pay for for the rest of his life and that they were the worst moments of his life and mistakes rather than some type of, you know, that this is who that guy is and people, you know, people now make judgments about people till the end of time, as we know.

so many people are judged by the worst moment of their lives, which is somewhat unfortunate, to say the least. But here's hoping that he learned from his mistakes. But that's going to come up. You know, anytime you become a huge star and nobody knows about you, people are going to go look into your past. And it's right there. I mean, you do a quick search and it's going to come up that that's what happened. But it's interesting to see the backstory as you watch. a guy go off on national TV and you're like, what the hell? How has this guy not been on an NBA roster? Like, he's clearly awesome at basketball, clearly. Yeah, especially with those type of accusations for a guy who, you know, as good as he was that last year in Oakland, he was still a four-year player, had his weaknesses as a player, but, you know, off the core, that all, of course, especially something that's serious with domestic violence is a big part of the valuation process. That's for sure. Just hope he's just hope he's As he said.

Yeah, you can only hope he's grown. He is an outstanding. He is a real talent, to say the least. Let's get to some other guys with Monster Start. Pascal Seacom, and I know you wrote about him recently. We wondered aloud, when we were doing our season preview, is it possible he takes the next step that now without Kauai Leonard there? Is he a guy that becomes like a big-time all-star, one of your, you know, maybe best player on the team type player? So far, he is.

And he has averaged 28 points per game. He has averaged nine rebounds, four assists a game, while shooting 51% from the field, and a shocking 44% from three at a pretty good volume, Kev. I don't know if the shooting numbers are sustainable, but I think the way he's playing does show more progress. What I wrote about on the Ringer this week in my eight overreactions, column, which you can find there on the ringer.com. I pretty much outlined his changes in terms of play types.

What Toronto's been doing this year with him is he's using a lot more post-ups, a lot more pick and rolls, a ball handler, and he's not spotting up from the corner nearly as much or cutting nearly as much as he had in the past. Seacum playing alongside Kauai last year or DeRosen the year before. So much of his game was just spotting out from the corner three spot and cutting to the rim. in addition to his transition rim runs

or transition ball handling opportunities, but now he's transferred that transition handling into the half court with his pick and roll ability and showing off some pretty good passing ability off the dribble too. I think it's real. The shooting ability, I mean, we'll see.

We'll see how sustainable that actually. These numbers. If he can be like 36, 37% from 3 above the break off the catch, that's all you really hope for. because everything else is so good as is. Well, and 28 is so hard to sustain. But is he a 24, 25 point per game guy?

I think that's in the card. Yeah, I think so too. I'm fairly confident we are seeing another leap from Seacom right now. Yeah, I think so too. Brandon Ingram going into tonight, which at time of recording, it's the fourth quarter in a game that they are surprisingly up double digits on the Nuggets. and he's got 18 as of this very moment. Coming into tonight, he's averaging 27 points a game, 50% field goal, 50% from 3, 9 and a half rebounds and 5 assists.

My God, I mean, Ingram's stats have just been absolutely off the charge. You and I have both been big members of the Brandon Ingram Band Club and have wondered, is this going to be a breakout? In the absence of Zion, they've clearly needed somebody to be able to shoulder a lot of offensive load and in the absence of Drew Holiday also for a couple of games have needed someone to shoulder the load and he has and he is in a contract year and it feels like every game the price of Brandon Ingram goes up. He has been awesome so far. What do we think that we're going to look up at the end of the season and Ingram has put up this monster

statistical year or is this just an unbelievable first week? obviously again, like we just said with Seacom, the three point percentage is not sustainable. He's not going to continue shooting 50% from three. But again, you know, like we said with none, how far down does it fall?

I think with Ingram, his shot mechanics have improved significantly over time, both off the dribble and off the catch. If he can settle into being, you know, 34% off the dribble from three, being you know, 39% off the

catch, you got a really good player in your hands now because of what he can do for you off the dribble as a shot creator at 6 foot 9, what he can do as a passer, and what he can do as a rebounder too. The one thing that is interesting so far this season, and again, small sample size here, but after three consecutive years with the Lakers of his free throw rate, really skyrocketing each year, making significant leaps, getting better at finishing to the rim, drawing files, finishing through contact. He has not gotten to the rim quite as often. for drawing files early on with the Pelicans. I will be curious to see if maybe if his shooting starts to dip,

if we see his at-rim finishing go up, if he begins to compensate for maybe a shooting slump by getting to the basket more. I think with Ingram, for quite a while now, we've seen these flashes. We've seen stretches where he put up unbelievable numbers when provided the opportunity, like last year when LeBron was out,

right before Ingram got hurt. this is real right now, the production. How he gets there, that might change. It's probably going to be not quite as much shooting more at Rim. Another one is the aforementioned DeMont de Svonis, 2310 and two assists, and the number of guys that actually average 20 and 10 over the course of the entire season,

I'm trying to look at this right now. It looks like I've got, hold on, before me. It looks like I got six guys that did it last year. Janice, Embed, Carl Towns, Westbrook, Vucevich, and Yokic. I think that's the end of the list that averaged 20 and 10 last year. So far he is at 23 and 10. How close do we end up having Sabonis to that number,

which clearly only six guys in the NBA were able to accomplish last year as averages. I mean, I think we hit on this earlier that the answer is probably yes. I don't know if it keeps the numbers up, but we're seeing his potential here at 23 years old what he could be in his prime at 26, 27. You mentioned Yokic in that group there, Chris?

Obviously, the nuggets have been very good so far, but boy, like Yogic looks so out of shape, man. I mean, you can see it in the weight that he definitely gained over the summer. you can see it with the fatigue in the court. And yet he's still producing at a high level, despite being clearly out of shape early the season. Well, he never had to get in great shape to get his huge contract.

You know what I mean? A lot of guys, they get in the greatest shape of their life and their contract year. And then they maintain it from there. You know, if you never had to do it. And for what it's worth. Like, he's got $100 million. It doesn't matter.

You know what I'm saying? For it's worth as of recording. Seven minutes left in the fourth quarter of Pelicans Nuggets. They're up 21 points. They're going to win that game. And Yokic, not his best game, 13 points, six rebounds, six assists as of right now. Over the course of the season, he's going to have to play himself into peak shape, peak conditioning for the nuggets to do what, you know, you and I have talked about potentially at finals team. He needs to get into peak condition.

Has to happen. And my warning flag is down for Alvin Gentry right now. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The warning flag went up. after they went 0 and 4 and he was saying we need to raise the red flag. Frank Jackson, big game off the bench for the New Orleans Pelicans tonight. Interesting player because, you know, he missed that whole first year at, you know, for injury, pretty much. Had the foot injury.

Yeah, right. Another guy, Malcolm Brogdon, good grief. 22, 11 assists, five rebounds. And his percentages, you'd say like, oh, well, you know, we keep talking about. like these other guys not being able to maintain their percentages. His are down. I mean, we know we just went 50, 40, 90 last year. He's 43% from the field, 38% from 3 to start this season.

And averaging 22, 11, and 5. What do we think on Brock? I had a feeling this could happen. We talked about it before the season, how much of a loss this was for Milwaukee. The passing numbers right now are just outrageous. 11 assists only two turnovers right now. he's always been a guy that is so good. It makes you wonder why the hell is Eric Bledsow in the game for them?

You know what I mean? Seriously, like, is this what this guy could be? Sometimes all you're going to do is empower a guy. And to Brogson's point, I think there has been some incremental improvement in terms of continuing tight in his handle. I mean, he's gotten a lot better since he was at Virginia. He's got a lot better each year, to his credit. I mean, it's not like he just entered the league and hasn't improved every single season. He's continued to improve.

With Brogden, I think this is, do the numbers sustain in terms of this volume when Oliva debo comes back? No, of course not. But the player that we're seeing right now is a version of what we saw in the past with the high efficiency. It's just down now because he's forced to take and create more for himself. But he's really good, man. Do you think it is possible that we will look back and say they should have thrown

the bag at him instead of Middleton. No, I think they should have thrown in it both. I'm not sure. I don't think it should have been one or the other. I think it was a both situation. They should have signed both, in my opinion. Look, Wesley Matthews and Kyle Corver, solid players, but Brogden's a much more dynamic player, and I think they're going to regret not giving Brogden the money.

Okay. Shea Gilges, I know you have been effusive in your praise about him and really have liked what you have seen so far. 22.7 rebounds, three assists a game to start off this season for Shea Gilgis Alexander. How sustainable is not, again, all of these stats we are talking about with these guys, for the most part, are extreme, right? This is probably the best of. But are we looking at a big leap and Shea Gilgis as a real scorer in the league now? Yeah, I mean, it's like I wrote about in the article this week, him playing next to Chris Paul,

I think it's a good thing for him. I think with Gilgis Alexander, in his ideal role in his prime, you don't want him to be a guy who dominates the ball where he's the only point guard. I think him playing alongside a veteran experience point guard and Chris Paul, getting him off ball experience,

Gildes Alexander, that is, putting him off ball, spotting out from three, which was a weaker point in his game entering the NBA, getting him used to cutting, getting him used to doing little things like screening and reading plays from off the ball, I think that's a good thing for him over time because we already know he is so advanced with the

ball in his hands, reading pick and rolls well beyond his young age of just 21 years old. So for him to play next to Chris Paul, I think this is a good thing for his potential future, getting these reps, getting this experience, never mind just learning from CP3. Being in film room, you know, watching him and observing the little things that he does, this is a very encouraging start for Gil's. Alexander to his career and a continuation, obviously, in year two with OKC. It's been fun to watch. Last one, Kevin, and this is my favorite one by a wide margin.

You ready? I'm ready. Tristan Thompson, 20 points, 12 rebounds per game. But most shocking is 16 field goal attempts per game. And I went to look this up because I was like, Jesus, has he ever taken? you know, this amount of shot. He, last year he took 8.8. For his career, he's taken like seven.

And the last time, the most he ever shot per game was 9.7. That was his second year in the league. And the field goal attempts have gone progressively down throughout the years. And as I said, it was 8.8 last year on a rat team. but so far this season, 20 and 12, 16 field goal attempts per game. We know more about Tristan Thompson's personal life than just about any other player in the league by virtue of a television show. But the new John B-Line coached Cleveland Cavaliers, I mean, what do we make of this? I mean, 16 field goal attempts for Tristan Thompson?

I couldn't believe it when I read it. It's one of the more shocking storylines of the season. Seriously. I mean, there was one play. I remember a couple days ago when he scored, I think, when it was a 25, 26 points against the Pacers where Kevin Love ran a pick and roll with Thompson's screening and rolling. And I'm like, damn, Beeline. Beeline's having fun coach in the NBA with all those talent that he has.

I mean, are you kidding? Dude, if he turns Tristan Thompson awesome again. Well, look, man. I mean, you remember, look, you remember he's not old now. Tristan Thompson is a major reason they won that title. You go back and look through those games and you look at what he did, not only defensively, but most importantly, rebounding in that series against Golden State.

He was a massive part to them winning that title. you know, that they did a few years back. But he's also been kind of a forgotten guy since. Like, you know, he was a casualty of the like, oh, he's not playing with LeBron anymore. But damn, man. I mean, and all of these shots that he is taking, he's taking more shots already this season than he would like by the All-Star break some years. And by the way, for what it's worth, Kevin Love right now averaging five assists. His career high was set in Minnesota, four point.

for his last season. 2013-14. And that's what I mean. They're using Kevin Love to his maximum capabilities right now as a playmaker from the high posteria, using him in pick and rolls with Thompson, the two big pick and rolls,

using him, you know, high-low passes. He had a lob, a couple lobs over the course of the season to a cutting Tristan Thompson, sometimes designed actions coming up a screen, sometimes just Thompson freelancing off ball. B-Line's offense is fun, man.

Like Cleveland, they're two and two. this year. They're not going to be that good necessarily, even if they were to somehow sneak into the postseason. They're not going to make any noise there. Oh, my God. But I've just said it's the Eastern Conference. No, look, you know, you are talking, you know this, you know you are talking to the

biggest John B-line believer ever. John B-line is just a flat winner. And when he left West Virginia, people didn't think he was going to be able to recruit enough talent and it wasn't built for Michigan and he turned them into one of the great programs in the entire country and he's just a great basketball coach. Did you, did you hear that interview he did, Adrian had it got him on a podcast about a month ago. If you ever get a chance, I'd encourage you go back and check it out. You're on a first day and basis with Wurge. Fascinated guy. I've known, I've known Adrian since he was working in frigging new work. Before we,

Woge was Woge, he was the guy that John Caliperi hated in Memphis. I always, I always call him Adrian, too, when I see him. Very rare that I call him Woge. He's, he's, I don't know. It's like, I've never been a nickname type of guy when I, when I meet people. This interview that he did. It's like I call you Chris. A lot of people call you Verno or Vernon. That's right. You know, Beeline is talking about in this particular interview, he's talking about like, it just says, it's just. It's just. It's just. It's. It's just. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's simple things that when he talks about them, it's like not what you hear NBA coaches talk about. He's talking about how when they're going through. He, Adrian asked him about how it's different watching him coach and their practices are different. And there was just so much like basketball teaching that he was talking about. Like these guys need to learn how to pivot and they need to learn proper stances. And we ran like a three man weave and they're throwing like knuckleball passes. You've got to be able to deliver the ball with spin in the pocket so that that guy can shoot. And it's like all this stuff that you would teach a fourth grade team. But somewhere

along the way, kids don't always learn it. Like he is just a teacher to his essence. And I am fascinated to see what he does with this, now on the professional level. I'll tell you this. If he gets Tristan Thompson averaging, you know, 20 and 10, he is a damn miracle. worker. I feel like saying Woj's first name is like the politics version. I'm like, yeah, you know, my buddy Barack. Brock? Or like, you know, acting.

It's like, yeah, you know, I was talking with Tom the other day. Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, or the cooking world. Yeah, my buddy, Dave, I was going to go to his restaurant. Dave Chang, you know. That's the same thing. That's what it is with Adrian Wardenowski. He's a legend, dude. He's a living legend.

Not to me. Yeah, I know not to you. That's the point not to you. That's the point. He's Woj. For 15 years. One of my favorite things on NBA Twitter is reading Woj's mentions. I love reading Woj's mentions.

It is the funniest damn thing, dude. Every single time. I'm glad I didn't carry you at all through my explanation of the Beeline interview. You were still thinking about Woj's name. No, I mean, I. I just have, I'm nothing to add. I really don't have anything to add. I don't think you heard a word I said.

I mean, B-Line is a, is a really accomplished coach, a great coach. And, uh, you just tune me out for minutes at the time. I know. Typical millennial. You can't, you can't pay attention to nothing. I'm just, I can't pay attention to nothing for more than one minute.

I got to have everything be a 30 second blurb to get you to. No, no. I'm, I'm, Now I want to go back and listen to that interview with B-Line. He's a great coach. Great coach. It's called the Woj Pod. It's not the Adrian Pod, by the way.

If you want to look it up. All right, Kevin. It's always fun. Have a great weekend. And I will talk to you next Tuesday. Have a good one, Chris. Thanks to everybody for listening. Thanks to everybody for listening.

If you dig what you're here, go give us a rating interview on. One more thing. October 31st was Deanie Chow's last day at the ringer. Just wanted to give him a shout out. Danny Chow was with Grantland so many years ago and was just an integral part of the ringer.com from the start building the website. The day the ringer launched,

he wrote just that incredible piece on the ball brothers before. We knew all about Lonzo and Leangelo and LaMello before LaVar Ball was LaVar Ball. Danny was telling amazing basketball stories back in 2016 and over the years has just become one of the best food writers in the world. Reading Danny and working with Danny, he has made me a better writer. I've enjoyed podcasting with him. And I think he is somebody, like, no matter your interest, basketball, music, food,

he is somebody who had something interesting to say or thought that made you think a different way. And I'm going to miss working with Danny, but I'm thankful to have met him through the ringer and thankful to call him a friend. I don't know all the particulars, but I did read somewhere that he was quoted as saying Kevin O'Connor called me a bitch all the time and I'm moving to Brooklyn. Is that true? Is that true? That's true. Great, great callback. That's good.

Is that untrue? Very good. I love Danny Chow. For those that don't know, I tweeted about this when it happened. I only write one article a year. I can't write for shit. and if you saw what I turned in versus what it looks like when it gets printed on the ringer, you would think that Danny Chow is the greatest editor to ever walk the face of the earth.

He is a miracle worker with what he has done. I mean, he has, you know, this is all you ask for, right, as a writer, which I don't know anything about being a writer, but I can only imagine. You know, it works when, whether it comes to editing anything, which is you want some, somebody to convey what you really want to say. You want it to sound exactly how you wanted it to say, but frankly, I'm not a good enough writer. And he was able to decipher what I turned in. And then when I would read it, it would be exactly what I wanted to say, except well written. And he's a talented guy, man. He is a talented guy for sure. That's my experience with him. And I am sorry that you called him a bitch all the time and he felt like he needed to leave the ringer.

That's messed up. He was a valuable part and it's all your fault. I don't know what I'd see any lined up next, but whatever, whatever he decides to do, I'm excited for Danny's future. Good guy. Good guy and a good friend. I am too. Somebody pay him a lot of money. That's going to do it for today's show. We will talk to you next Tuesday. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes five stars five stars it really helps and we will talk to you on tuesday one last quick thing because chris and i weren't able to talk about it at the time of recording but dude kawai landered tonight 38 points in a 103 97 win by the clippers over the spurs this dude is just freaking crazy man kawai so far all season long i wrote about this in my column this

on the ringer. He's been passing the ball better than he ever has before. He was averaging seven and a half assists entering Thursday night's game. But then against the spurs, the Clippers needed him to go full Kobe. And he did that. And I think this is really representative of what makes him such a special player at this point of his career, everything we've seen, two finals MVP's two championships, obviously a highly accomplished defensive player who was transformed into an unbelievable scorer. But now, Kauai has become a guy who still can go full Kobe, full Michael Jordan style scoring if he needs to. But we already have seen the flashes through the first four games of what he can do as a playmaker. And so you think about this Clippers team

and how deep they are with the amount of style they can play with different types of lineups. And then Paul George comes back. This Clippers team might actually be better than we actually expected before the season. And of course, you have the looming possibility of them adding buyouts and getting even stronger. I'm sure Chris and I will talk about the Spurs at some point next week, or you can catch heat check on Monday or group chat midweek to get some more Spurs talk. But I just had to add that final thought on at the end of the podcast because it felt like we had a mention kawai somewhere here because it's a special

performance by him just because he gave the game what it needed with the points at 38 the rebounds at 12 playing good defense and he only didn't one assists when that's been the number one thing that's been great from him so far this season clippers are nasty and basketball is very good