The Ringer NBA Show - Does the Rookie of the Year Award Indicate a Hall of Fame Career? | The Answer

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

Seerat and Kyle get together to discuss the NBA Rookie of the Year award. They start their conversation by talking about past winners of the award and debating if players who win the award are destined for all-time greatness. This leads to a conversation about the ’09-10 season race between Tyreke Evans and Steph Curry and other particularly impressive rookie debuts in NBA history (11:59). After the break, they take a look at the current race for the award, which heavily favors Paolo Banchero and Jalen Williams, while they also examine some outliers for the award (28:57). Hosts: Seerat Sohi and J. Kyle Mann Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure those time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

It's just not the same when I do it. Kyle, Kyle, give us a folks. Give us a folks. We need it. I don't even know what that was. What was this? I don't even. You got to jump in.

It's not the folks. You can't, you can't like step lightly into it. You got to jump in, you know? It's kind of like a cold pool. You're not going to do yourself any favors by trying to wait into it. You need to just jump in. That was, you can't be like, oh, it was too sheepish. You got to.

I was timid. I was timid. why don't you do it and then I'll do it. Folks. You know, really hammed up. Folks, how's that? Is that a little forced? I think I have more haminess in me than you do,

so I don't struggle with that as much. So, you know, we were talking about, you know, Jeffrey Tambour and his character on Larry Sanders. It's kind of that. Just imagine you're him. You're like, hey, no, like, a little schmaltzy. Just go for it. Just go for it.

Anyway. You know, that's good advice, but I think in general I'm going to stray away from imagining myself. as Jeffrey Tamber for just so many reasons. Oh man, I walked into that one. But yeah, I don't blame you for doing that. Either way. Yeah, either way.

Kyle, we have a, this is actually a home game for you. We're continuing our series on the awards. And we're talking about rookie of the year this week. So as, you know, the ringers basically, you're basically the ringers young player correspondent. You doing some great college basketball content over on the site with Tate Fraser on that pod. and you're just kind of the guy that's paying attention to all the players that are freshly out of college.

So this is this is going to be a Kyle heavy episode. I'm really looking forward to your takes. I'm putting the pressure on early. And I hope that you appreciate that too because, I mean, that's kind of, isn't that what it is to be the rookie of the year to have all the pressure put on you early? Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, yeah, I'm definitely, I like to sort of like walk. that line between guys who's coming to the NBA and who just got to the NBA, because I think it's an interesting thing to evaluate players when they're younger, sort of set what we think,

or a lot of times erroneously or like fail at doing this, at like setting what their trajectories are as players, what we expect from them, what we expect them to be doing based on things that we've seen in the past. And then once they get into the league and sort of assess, you know, we evaluate them when they're 15, 16, 17, 17, 7. 18 and then we do it again. And then we, you know, once they get into the league, we, we assess whether we were really right or really wrong. And in some cases, we kind of discover like, oh, we were like off on that. I feel like, you know, you see examples like James Wiseman or you think about players who were highly ranked coming out of high school, coming out of college,

and they get in the NBA and they don't produce immediately. A lot of factors go into that. I don't know that you want to like put this all on me. You're saying that this is going to be a me heavy episode. You've done a lot of really good research here, Sirat. I've been really impressed. I see what you're doing here. What am I doing here? What am I doing here? You're trying to throw it back on me, but that's okay. That's fine. That's fine by me. I can handle the pressure, you know. I like to play under duress. But you know, you get to, well, you get to live in a good world. And this is a fun world for me to live into because it's all amorphous and what we do is we project all of our hopes about what we hope a player can be,

what they can be to a franchise, onto them at a very young age. And sometimes it pans out and sometimes it doesn't. But with the Rookie of the Year award, one thing that's interesting is that it pans out more often than not. This award is incredible at projecting basically future greatness, which, you know, it's almost self-evident. If you are the best, if you present yourself to be the best player in your draft class

in your first year, where you're already in a crop of very elite players just by being in the NBA. So just to be in the 99% of the 1% of that makes perfect sense. But in the last, basically since the Rookie of the Year award has been an award, which is like basically, you know, essentially since the inception of the NBA, 30 players have been voted into the Hall of Fame. And there are 70 players who have won the award, about 20 who are not eligible yet. If you look at it with players who are eligible,

I would say about 26 won't make the Hall of Fame. So you're basically more likely to make the Hall of Fame than not. And I think that's especially true in recent history. If you look at the last 10 years, it's Scotty Barnes, Le Mellow Ball, Johnich, Luca Donchich,

Ben Simmons, Malcolm Brogden, Carl Towns, Andrew Wiggins, Michael Carter Williams, Damien Lillard, Kyrie Irving, and Blake Griffin.

Now, not everybody in that crop is going to make the Hall of Fame, but we've already got some sure locks in there. You've got M.C.W and then Ben Simmons

where, like, obviously, you know, those guys probably won't be. I mean, we were all, yeah, narratives change, right?

Like, things change, as we see. You know, I feel like Ben Simmons situation is pretty unique. I was curious about, you know, thinking of this as like a predictive thing, is kind of to act like we're like pulling someone out of a group of players and being like, okay, this person. A lot of these guys, I'm curious about looking at draft order as related to like your likelihood to win this award.

If you look down throughout the history of this award, some of the lower draft positions that we've had, Jamal Wilkes was at 11. Mark Jackson in 1987, 88 was at 18 for the Knicks. And then you go down the lowest of all time, probably the most surprising. You know, even Michael Carter Williams, the person that you snickered as you said his name. Poor guy. Even he was still a lottery pick. Malcolm Brogden 36th.

You know, a second round pick in 2016. He and he goes on to win it. I guess I'm curious about this like this sort of like relationship between it being like a predictive thing or is it even that is it even that wild of a thing that it's predicting the Hall of Fame right? Like is it is it that unique? Is it that special? I'm just thinking out loud here. I think it's pretty special. I mean, essentially you are in your first year, the best player in the draft class.

And this is actually something that you've talked about before too. Like you've done a video on this. If you are going to be an MVP level player, if you're going to be a Hall of Fame level player, you are you. usually going to show signs of it very early. I think in that video that you showed you basically, like, you have to get there very fast if you are going to be an MVP player. Like, there are very few elite superstars on that level that are late bloomers. Yeah, it doesn't really happen.

Yeah, it's typically guys typically come out of the gate. I'm trying to think of, like, what the, like, indicators are if we're being, like, really tangible about it. I guess it's, like, scoring efficiency, you know, whether we're talking about, like, make make or miss shots, but then just kind of turnover. Also, if you can stay on the floor defensively, the guys, you know, some players will come into the league. If you think about like a Kobe Bryant comes,

you'll see weird dips in efficiency guys who kind of start in the hole. A lot of times it'll be sort of erratic ball handlers who aren't efficient scores. You'll see that. Or you'll see, you know, but that era was interesting, too, if you look at that data because there are a lot of guys just coming straight out of high school. You think about like a literal like 17, 18 year old. on the floor, they're adjusting to a lot. They're adjusting to the physicality.

They're adjusting to the speed of the game. Yeah, a lot of those things kind of have to factor in. But I agree with you that you usually show it early. I guess I'm trying to figure out the balance between like if a guy is sort of, has sort of been at the forefront of their group of players age wise. On that level, I guess it's not that strange. But then on the level of like, is it significant on like the level of like the level of like making the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, because making the Hall of Fame is significant in and of itself. So an interesting thing, I think an interesting wrinkle of the rookie of the year award is that, you know, it very rarely overlaps with like contributing to winning and like playoff level kind of success. That's really only happened three or four-ish times. I mean, there have been rookies on good teams. They don't necessarily have a big role as a result of that. Role and opportunity, I think, is a big part of this award.

It's something that we should get into later. You know, if you look over the course of the award, Tim Duncan in 9899, which was a lockout season, sort of a rare situation where a good team ends up with a good pick. You know, you and I talked in the past about like, you know, I think it was like the two timeline warriors we were talking about how, how unusual it is for it like a championship level core to add a high lottery pick or multiple high lottery picks to it. Duncan was a case of that. He contributes to the champion.

and was, you know, their best player. Larry Bird, we had two of them. Bird and Magic in 7980. Magic, obviously, the Celtics were good, but the Lakers were better. They won the title in 7980. And then another one that gets forgotten, I think, is Kauai in 1112. He had another really good rookie season that year. But Duncan and Magic are the only two that really played a central role in the championship.

And Magic didn't win rookie in the year that year either. That's what's interesting. Yeah, Duncan is the only player. who has won rookie of the year, played a significant role and won the championship. I wonder if he's, I imagine he's probably the only player

who is one rookie of the year and won finals MVP in the same year. I'd say that's true. I mean, that's a pretty... As I was saying, I wonder if. I'm like, no, that is definitely true. And then the two other, like, significant, significant accomplishments for rookies

are Wes Unseld, actually won MVP and rookie of the year the same year. The odds of that, Can you even imagine that happening today? I just can't. It must be a function of, I mean, the talent level is higher than it ever has been, but I just cannot fathom that happening in today's environment. And then Will, 1960, also won MVP and rookie of the year in the same year.

That's a pretty remarkable thing to think about in today's context. Just to make the rest of this podcast a little bit easier for both of us, I decided to look up synonyms to significant. So what we have is compelling, important, momentous, powerful, serious, symbolic. Do we both say significant a lot? Yeah, I thought that's why you laughed when you said it. No. I was just laughing at this how wild it is.

No, I wasn't laughing at that. It was one of those. You were laughing in disbelief sort of situation. Yeah, people do that, you robot. What do you mean? That's how, that's how humans function. I've been surprised. Being surprised in this economy?

Not for me. One thing that I think would surprise people is the 2009-2010 rookie of the year race, where Tyreek Evans won that year and Steph Curry did not. I think this race is interesting. I think it has a lot of parallels to the current race that we'll be talking about Paulo Bancaro versus J-dub that we'll be getting into a little bit later. but Tyreek Evans basically came out of the gate that year and was dominant. And he had one of those sort of, you know, not since LeBron has a rookie had a stat line of over 20 points, five assists and five rebounds.

And that is just delicious. And you hear that pretty much every single time a rookie comes out of the gate and has an incredible year. We start going on basketball reference and putting all these different filters in to find a way to compare 20-year-old. to Hall of Fame locks and try to project what's going to happen in the future of their career. And that is a fun game, but it can be a tricky and dangerous game. And, you know, with the way that Evans came out of the gate that year, he pretty much had the narrative locked up way early. And Steph, on the other hand, he was playing on a team where he was sharing the ball with Monta Ellis,

who was not exactly enthusiastic about sharing the ball with Steph Curry. He didn't exactly know what Steph Curry was going to become in that moment. None of us did. And, you know, I think it was one of those situations where Evans completely won the numbers battle. But Curry came on late that season. And if you look at his last 26 games or his last, yeah, his last 26 games that season, he's averaging 22.8 points, 7.4 assists, 1.9 steals. and five rebounds.

So at that point, he's putting up numbers that are comparable, if not better, if you include the fact that he's shooting 46% from the three-point line and projecting out a level of future improvement

and fitting with a modern game in a way that Evans just wasn't. Evans was very exciting that season, but he was also chaotic, and he was just taking a high, like his high volume of shots and his usage was out of control for a rookie. So that was one season where, you know, I don't think Rookie of the Year is a war that we often get wrong.

Because I wonder if it's just because the sheer fact that greatness kind of presents itself to us in a way that is hard to argue. But, you know, Curry was, Curry might be one of those guys that goes against, you know, the video that you made when we've been talking about, just this essential thing of like, if you are going to become a superstar, it shows up early. And there are a number of reasons for that. Like, he had coaches that just didn't really know how to use him for a good chunk of his career. And then he also had the ankle issues, too. So he didn't really come on. And the NBA itself did not, you know, he met the moment in 2014 and 2015 in terms of the way the game was changing as well. And that's when we saw the birth of Steph Curry, the superstar.

But at the time in 2010, when LeBron was the MVP, it did look like Tyreek Evans is essentially very bold. all dominant player who is showing hints of being able to be a guy that can be very well-rounded and do a little bit of everything might have seemed more like the future. Speaking to Tyreek, which we are, I had no idea that one of his nicknames was reek havoc. R-E-K-E-R-E-R-Havoc, I wasn't aware of that one. Not the most like easy off-the-tong nickname I've ever heard. But yeah, I mean, he speaks to sort of the times. That nickname reeks, in my opinion.

Oh, boy. Oh, boy. All right. I just took the head of steam you had there completely with how horrible that was. That's what I'm always trying to do. You hurt me badly there. No, I think. I'm like the Monta Ellis tier, Steph Curry. Okay, okay, okay, okay. No, that was my last one.

You're way more efficient of a shooter than Monta. But yeah, I think your opportunity plays a big part in this too. You know, even though the Warriors were like an equally bad team that year, I don't have the record in front of me, but I believe the Kings were like 25 and 57. They were rough. it kind of was a wide open highway for Tyreek to come in and kind of just put up points. But what's interesting is that Tyreek and Michael Carter Williams both are kind of teams that players that came in as ball dominant players who were really more about getting downhill.

Neither one of them were shooters. And neither one of them really had dominance to that level really ever again. Michael Carter Williams, I don't even really know. He's probably the only rookie of the year who was traded the following season. You want to talk about coming in on a blank canvas. Michael Carter Williams did that when he won the award in 13-14. But, yeah, I mean, Tyreek, that was the highest scoring average of his career. That was the, wasn't the highest assist total, but it was the most points that he put up in a single season over his career.

But yeah, I just feel like opportunity in where you go makes such a big difference. But it kind of makes you wonder if you look between the lines. It's like, is it always a guarantee of what a player is going to be if they come into like a blank canvas of a roster and they put up a ton of points? Whereas there's another player who's in a lesser role, which kind of reflects what's going on this year and this rookie of the race that we're going to talk about. But yeah, situation and environment just makes such a huge difference in how we look at these things, you know? Do you remember Michael Carter-William's rookie debut? No, do you? It was legendary.

I remember watching his rookie debut one of his first plays he gets a steal and then takes it all the way across the floor, outruns everybody and dunks in transition and you're like, oh, okay, so this guy is completely comfortable. You already

have like sort of, you know, the wingspan is showing up, it's doing what it needs to do, and you know, he's just like super athletic and he ends up getting a double double. It's like his historical He's like historic.

Well, they're playing the heatels. Yeah, it looks like, yeah, it looks like their first game was, was against the heatels era heat. Yeah. And he had 22 points, 12 assists. Nine steals. Yeah, nine steals. And seven rebounds.

So basically came out of the gate with piss and vinegar, ready to play the heatles. And they, this kind of reminds me of like, I think the Celtics beat the Bulls back in like the defending champion, in Chicago Bulls. It was kind of one of those like we're coming out against, I don't know, I don't know.

Have you ever seen like an older dog play with like a puppy? The older dog could just squish them at any moment, but the puppy's just kind of like annoying them and like, you know, it's just like all right. Like it seems like maybe the heat just didn't match their energy level.

They got the championship hangover. They don't have any interest in running in transition. They're playing like, I think this is the first year of the process sixers. It's before, it's before Joelle and, Bede and like I am the process and any of that stuff.

It's just like this is, this was a team that ended up like, you know, Henry Sims got to be an NBA player because of this team, you know, it was like just a bunch of G League guys. A lot of guys got a lot of opportunity because of this team. But I think they actually, didn't they get off to a three-o start that year? And like for a moment we're like, is the process over? Just to speak to how stupid the narrative cycle is. Yeah, that we're just like, well, because we do need to react to it in the moment.

Michael Carter, they did. They did. They started a 3-0. They beat the Wizards and the Bulls. And the Bulls were good around that time too. So, yeah, I'm sure that was hard for people to keep in perspective. This happens. I mean, this happens.

Teams jump out with their energy level. And it's also, like we talked about with Mo, like pre-scouting information hasn't built up yet. So you can kind of come out and blitz people when they don't really know exactly who you are. But after that game, they went on, let's say. see a pretty incredible streak of losing. I think in their next, yeah, 14 games, they only won three. So, yeah, not to get two in the weeds on the 13, 14-6ers. I know some people, this teases our narrative podcast that's coming out, our narrative podcast we're putting out about the 13-14-6ers. I'm excited to put that together with you. Me too. I mean, I'm a little

disappointed that you kind of gave the game away. Like, what if another outlet was also working on a podcast about the 13, 14-76ers, and now they, listening to us, are going to rush it out and beat us. I think they'll see your involvement and just quit. That would be my thing. They'll be like, shit, Syrit's on that. Yeah, you got to pivot.

Something else. Scrap it. They just control away, drag it to the, yeah, drag it to the trash can, I'm sure. Empty the trash. Empty the trash. Another rookie. Screwdriver through the hard drive.

Yeah. Who's your next rookie? Who's your next rookie? Another rookie that had a historic debut, Paulo Bankero in his debut, was the first rookie since LeBron to have 25, 5, and 5 in his debut. And he also dunked all over Corey Joseph.

Is that really that much of it? It was a great dunk. I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying it's not like he dunked on, like, Albert or something. It's like electrifying, explosive ways to make your NBA debut. I think simultaneously,

see running over and jumping over another player is pretty good, especially when you consider where he took off from and Joseph very clearly being in the restricted area too. That was an incredible NBA debut and an incredible done. Come on, don't downplay this just because it's Corey Joseph. By the way, put some respect on Corey Joseph's name. He's Canadian. Of course, of course you're going to do that. Of course you're going to pull this towards, would you be saying that if this wasn't a Canadian?

I think Corey Joseph has had a great career. I think he's been a great role player for a long time. I think we should, I mean, you know, you talk about this all the time. There are things more important than stardom. So, you know, practice what you preach. This is one of those dunks that's like, I'm just talking more about like the player type going against the player type. It's kind of, you know, it's like, like everybody freaked out about the DeAndre Jordan, Brandon Knight thing when he's like looking back and making the face. I'm like, Brandon Knight's 6'1.

You're seven feet tall. I don't know. just, I'm not going to brag if I dunk on my son. Like, you know, he's a little, he's a little baby. First of all, I think if you dunked on your baby, you should definitely brag about it. You should flex on them. Like, you should be. He's got to learn. He's got to learn. Exactly. That little generational ass kicking is good for you. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Show, show Julian what it's like in the real world, right? Get up. Get up. Yeah. Do you remember when the DeAndre Jordan, Brandon Knight, um, posterization also became like a morassette.

reality tale for a day or two. No, what are you talking about? I wasn't covering the NBA back then. I can't remember who it was. I think after the fact, morality tale. Wode wrote a column about how we should be like, we shouldn't be like shitting all over Brandon Knight. Because it was early NBA Twitter too.

So it was like one of the first situations where a guy gets posterized and he just instantly becomes a meme. And then the DeAndre Jordan Stankface also became a meme. So Brandon Knight was basically getting clowned all over Twitter. And then see, people started. making the point that should we really be clowning a guy for having the guts to, you know, step out and try to take a charge on a guy. I'm all about that.

Who has a foot and probably like, you know, 70 pounds on him, which is a totally fair point that I think should circle back and make you have a little bit more respect for Cory Joseph. You tried to get me there. All I was trying to say was that like my original, my point supports what I was trying to say. So you tried to get me there, but you didn't. I'm trying to say, Palo dunking on a much smaller play. And he got a little bit of what I call the Chambers bump. He made contact with Corey Joseph, and he kind of hung in the air.

It made it look a little better. He should dunk on Corey Joseph. It is a great dunk. It was a great play. But no, I never really got down with that DeAndre Jordan dunk. A couple of other ones that we should mention where we get too derailed. Malcolm Brogdon, as we said, came in, had a good one. Ameca Okafore, that's one where, you know, there was a lot of debate during that draft.

I know you probably in your mocking of everything that was pre-2008 that, you know, that draft board wasn't, you know, chiseled on to a stone tablet.

The debate back then was Dwight Howard versus Ameca Okafore. And O'Kefo'Four was coming out of college as this really proven shop blocker, room protector guy,

heads to the Hornets. Dwight, you know, we all know the story. He didn't, you know, comparable sort of Ricky numbers. but he ended up being the better player long term. Okofor, I think, can kind of not totally get his due.

He was a good player, but that's one that didn't totally predict it. Yeah, I mean, Okofor was definitely more refined, but I think even if you look back, if you ask somebody, who do you think is the rookie of the year versus who do you think is going to have a better career, I don't think it would, you know, I think most people would have said Dwight Howard is going to have a better career, but Okafore did have better numbers that year. So, you know, you get it. But it's just another situation where, and I don't like to Cape for Dwight Howard,

really ever. But just another situation where Dwight didn't get an award that he deserved. I mean like rookie of the year 2005 and then also MVP in 2010. Just tough. Which we'll get to that on the MVP episode, I'm sure. Yeah, we're going to do 20 minutes on Dwight Howard

in the MVP episode. I hope you guys are looking forward to it. I'm certainly not. It'll set record numbers of podcast drop-offs. Like it'll set record numbers of people. Changing the channel. The Spotify analytics are going to look like the second part of a roller coaster ride. Everybody's just like, I'm out.

I hope you guys will stick around after this because we are going to be talking about this year's race between essentially what looked like a lock with Bankero. But now we got J-dub getting into it. So yeah, we'll talk about that after the break. The NBA is coming down to the wire. And now is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number. one sports book because new customers get a no sweat first bet up to $1,000. That's bonus bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just download the Fandall Sportsbook app. It's safe, secure, super easy to use. Then you can bet on everything from the money line to points scores and threes

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Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler. Call 1877-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope N-Y-467-3. 369 in New York. Call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia. 1-800, next step, or text next step to 53344 in Arizona, 1-888-789-77, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut,

1-8009 with it, Indiana, 1-800-2-2-4-7-00 or visit, KSgamblinghealth.com in Kansas, 18777-770 stop in Louisiana. Visit MDGamblinghealth.org in Maryland, 1-800-2-2-470 in Wyoming, or visit www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. So, Kyle, right now, if you bet $10 on Paulo Bankero winning the Rookie of the Year award,

you would make a whopping 25 cents. that is how much he has had this award on lock pretty much from the moment he debuted and it looks like he's going to win. But this is a good week to be talking about rookie of the year because as of lately are guy Jalen Williams

J-dub, not to be confused with J-Will, the other J-Lynn Williams on the Thunder. This name is becoming a problem. It's too common. It's becoming the John Smith. It's just there are too many J-Ly Williams is. I don't know what to do. We're all like, we're like J-Dub, I just don't, I don't, I don't,

Jay Will, I still don't know what's going on there. I just, I'm having, I'm having a hard time with it. And as more Jalen Williams enter the league, it's just going to become more of a problem. I feel like the odds of there being another Jailen Williams are pretty good. So I don't know, I'm struggling with that. I just wanted to toss that in there. Yeah, I mean, as somebody who's been, you know, covering the tournament,

this has probably just been really tough for you, hey. Yeah. I only have, I really essentially at this point, only have two Jilline Williams to juggle, but you got three. Yeah, I'm struggling, but we'll make it. We'll make it. It could be harder, I guess. Did you ever see that ESPN feature about the increase in babies named Jalen inspired by Jalen Rose? I mean, I don't remember reading the article. I've heard a lot about it. I mean, there's certain names, I guess. Are there a lot of kids out there named LeBron now? I don't feel like I've seen as many of those. I don't know. You're not, you're not. you're not paying as much attention to the high school level stuff, though. Well, I feel like Jalen as a name kind of hits a good sweet spot where LeBron is almost too unique.

Like, you can't, you can't in good conscience name your kid LeBron, especially if you have any hopes of him becoming a professional basketball player. Then you'd want to go the other way. You'd want them to either, you know, not have the shadow of being named LeBron. Although, remember that one guy that was named like L'Cobie Nash? Like, who was that guy who's like named borrowed from like four different. NBA Hall of Famers. LeBriand Nash or like I don't know but LaCobie. Yeah.

LeBriott, Nash. Yeah, like it wasn't actually LaCobie Nash. That was just me saying words. But Jalen kind of in my mind hits a sweet spot where it's a reasonably common name that's also more unique than say John. Like if maybe, maybe after Michael Jordan the name Michael went up. But we wouldn't have clocked that because Michael is already one of the more common name. Yeah, there are more and more cobies. I'm seeing those. Yeah, I think we're going to see more and more of those. I was named after Kyle Macy, as I said on another show because there was a guard who played for Kentucky named Kyle Macy. Anyway, it's just those little ripples are funny. Shack, you know, Kobe. Anyway, so if you look at this race at the beginning of the year, I actually, you know, let's just touch on opportunity first because it's been different for, I'd say like the top six guys in this top six,

hasn't played out the exact way that we thought. As we know, the check got hurt back in the summer. You know, Benedict Matherin was the person that I picked on our like preseason entrance survey. Benedict Matherin picked by the Pacers. I thought that his situation was going to be such that playing with Tyrese Halliburton that Halliburton was going to be so deferring and so willing to let him go crazy, which he's, you know, he's had a pretty good year, 16.7 points per game. not really balancing the playmaking. You mentioned that he can kind of get tunnel vision, which is a thing that was put on him in the pre-draft process.

People were just kind of like, which one did he do? You kind of see that with some players. And balancing those things, I think, is what really elevates players. We see that even with current NBA players. But four rebounds, 82.6 from the line, has not shot the ball well from 3.31.8%. And hasn't been a season-long starter. But if you look at Jalen Williams, he's had a little more opportunity. Jabari Smith is playing with a couple of guards similar to his situation in Auburn. I don't know that Jabari, sorry, Jabari Smith. I don't know that his situation we can maybe touch on it a little bit has been ideal for him, but he has not shot the ball well at all. 12.5 points per game, 1.2 assists. He's actually been 30.7% from three. If you made me bet on that a year ago, I would not have taken that bet. I really, really would.

not have been expecting that. But overall, 40.3% from two has not shot the ball well across the board. Kegan Murray fitting into a machine. I'd say Kegan Murray and Jalen Williams are the two players, I think, that are fitting, that are the most fitting into a situation that is functioning. They were coming in and they weren't asked to be like, hey, you're going to be the thing that everything else ripples out from. They're two players that I think are just kind of fitting into a.

machine and then Walker Kessler who really is the surprise player of this list I think but um is there anything on those guys who are sort of in the lower the the secondary group that you have any kind of thoughts on whether it would be Matherin or Jabari or Kegan or Kessler and I just I loved I love your rookie of the year pick I love the logic behind it because it kind of gets to what we've been talking about right like you have to find yourself in the right position Kessler is a great example of that and I think it also you know the role thing can be can be can be interesting. I think it can work out in sort of two different ways.

Because I think it's really easy to argue that Bankero is putting up a bunch of numbers a la MCW, you know, a lairic Evans, but at the same time, that's a role that he's been put into as well, right?

Like, obviously, I'm sure other guys would look at him and be like, well, I'd love to have that type of problem. But I don't know if you would, because if you look at, you know, the second half of the season for him, His efficiency numbers have really dropped and he's had to deal with the fact that when you get off to a hot start,

everyone sort of figures you out too. So you're going to hit the wall faster. You're going to get keyed in on. He gets keyed in on more than anybody else on this list. I think that there's just no real argument there, right? Like if you're playing the thunder, who are you worrying about? You're worrying about SGA first and foremost.

And then earlier in the season, and you're probably worrying about Giddy the most. Now, I think Jalen Williams is now proven that he is probably the second best player on that team. Him and Shea are a really interesting combination together too. And, you know, I think if you just kind of go down the list, right, like Matherin, you're worrying about Ty Halliburton. You're worrying about Buddy Heel. You're worrying about Miles Turner. Now, obviously, Matherin has played himself up that list, but he's also, as a result of that,

struggled as of late too. Like you said, the tunnel vision stuff has really gotten in his way lately. So yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think if you look at Paulo's last 15 games, it feels like he's almost kind of

found his way back around the bend where he has dealt with a new level of pressure from opponents. And I don't want to say necessarily that he's changed too too much. I feel like the things that he struggles with are still the things that he struggles with.

But over the last 50, 15 games, he's averaging 20 points, 6.1 rebounds, 5.1 assists. And his efficiency numbers still aren't where you want him to be. He's shooting 44% from the field. And the big problem really is that, you know, he had that 1 for 33 shooting split in February from the 3-point line. And he's just not, he has not shown himself to be a good shooter. And he is kind of like a back-to-the-basket guy for the most part. I think that's probably his strongest,

I think it's just using his strength, right? And whereas Williams, I think he's got a better first step than him. He probably has a little bit more fluidity in that jump shot, even though they're both kind of similar players. But Paulo is kind of, it seems like he's leaning on that. But, you know, teams are sort of figuring that out too. Yeah, they are. And I think I kind of talked about this.

I did a video, you wanted me to plug this. I did a video about the Orlando Magic and I was kind of just thinking about player types, big forwards who come into the league and the way that they interface with the way the game is being played. And I made the comparison of Blake Griffin when he came into the league. He was like a post-dominant player who precedes, you know, he precedes Palo's college career by a good bit. And you think about the way he was playing in high school and what he was sort of ushered

towards stylistically once he got to the league. it's different than Palo, but I don't know that he's terribly different than Palo as a player because Palo is facing up more in the high post. I mean, he's a nightmare. If you look at him, like his first step, he's not particularly like explosive, but he does when he turns the corner on people, he has more like fluidity and flexibility as an athlete than the average guy his size and he can handle the ball. But I really do think that his strength is that rim pressure that he creates. For a rookie, for him to be creating seven and a half

free throw attempts per game, which is pretty terrific. And I think that that's, that sort of speaks to the foundation for him going forward, talking about like projecting him as a player going forward. He's also the leader among this group of players in assists, which, you know, if you want to go down and talk about that like per 100, you know, Jalen is kind of right there with him. But they have different kind of play styles.

For Paolo, I'm just kind of trying to think about what role, and this is something I thought about when I made that video, was what role is his jump shot going to play in his game going forward? We talked about discernment last week, how, like, guys who don't shoot the ball well, maybe it's not necessarily a case of, like, you need to get incredible at shooting this volume of shots, but maybe it's more a case of you need to become passable.

You need to create a release within the tension of the thing that you do well. I think that that's where he's, that's sort of the frontier of growth for him, you know, because we've seen him make those passes. We've seen him. I pulled out a bunch of clips. I didn't totally get to use all these in the video, but there were several of him. He does this thing where he would get, and I don't know if it's him trying to like avoid getting charges called on him, but he would get into like the foul line area and sort of stop in

that like eight foot range and do the thing like where maybe help had come or I just think he needs to sort of master that sort of overlap between really powering to the basket and like using his strength and like just, you know, bullying dudes basically. And also having that sense about him that like, oh, okay, extra help is coming when I do this thing, this thing that I do well. And some of that speed just kind of comes with time. I don't know, like, I don't know about the shot. It doesn't look egregious to me. Does it bother you? I mean, you think about like some of the other like kind of non-shooters. You think about like the way LeBron shot it or Yannis shot it.

Those are similar kind of downhill force players. I could see him getting to like the 32-ish percent range. I don't know. That doesn't seem outrageous to me. Actually, when I was watching his jumper and also the way that he gets to his jumper, like the mechanics of it, it actually reminds me a lot of LeBron in that it is not the most fluid, but there are pieces there that suggests that he could become a passable shooter. don't think that he's a guy that to me projects out to be an excellent shooter by any means.

I don't think that's going to be his game. But, you know, to your point of discernment, and he also, he's a, yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a 74% shooter from the free throw line. So that's not a bad indicator, especially when you look at the number of attempts. But I think, like, you know, to the point of discernment, he's not necessarily in a role where he's been a last. to discern like those those eight footers like they he just has this sort of janky quality to his game as of the last few months you know um defenders will meet him in that area they'll cut him off a little bit earlier which to in fairness to him is quite difficult to do still and he'll he'll look almost surprised and then he'll kind of

throw something up you know that's what I'm talking about yeah yeah I'm I have like a million screenshots of this where he'll have two or three guys in front of him. And he does this thing where he like probably should be making a decision to get rid of it. But he just like doesn't. In the video, I called it sort of the absence of a choice. He just seems like he gets in the air and he's like, I should shoot this, but he doesn't shoot it wholeheartedly. He doesn't like attack like with purpose. But he also, I don't know.

I personally think that is just like slowing down. And I also to speak to what you're talking about, like their team. Just it obviously needs some pieces to help their spacing. Because right now, you know, as a team, they have some shooters, but they don't, I just feel like the fluidity within their offense is going to require them to get some guys who can knock down shots. And I think that'll help him. That'll help his assist numbers. That'll help all that stuff.

And if you look at his shooting totals, Synergy actually has him as a pick and roll ball handler shooting 30.2% from three. He's actually, he's only hitting 14.7% in transition from three. Ouch, yikes, farts down. And then Iso 26.9. And then on spot-ups, he's actually okay, 32.3. When he has time, yeah, he is in that kind of LeBroni kind of category. I agree with you that like it doesn't have like a horrible hitch in it, comes off his fingertips and it looks okay.

I kind of feel like that low 30s though is probably where he's going to be with all that other stuff being the meat of his game. You know, I don't want him, I don't ever want him to be like I'm hunting my three. tonight. I just don't. I don't think he's going to be that type of player. Right. And I think as the magic sort of build out their roster, they'll figure, like, it'll help him refine his rule too. And they are, I mean, they're just kind of a weird team where they have a ton of talent. And I think they're figuring out who parts of their core are, right? I think like, Paulo and Franz are definitely part of it. Me personally, I'm just a Wendell Carter Stan. So I'm going to throw him in there too. I think he's just a great rim protector.

and he fits well with what they want to do. But he, like, and, you know, he can kind of space the floor a little bit. You know, for someone who plays a five position and protects the rim, like, I think, you know, being able to make over one three a game is pretty solid. I think, like, that's, that's enough for me from that position, right? You know, Faults is not a shooter. You obviously love the fact that he's just been able to do what he's been able to do over the last few years.

But I don't know if he's going to be in a long-term picture. maybe he will I think you will I think you will he gives you like that plane making connectivity you know like you said

he's only 31.4% from 3 but he's okay I think he's kind of the connector that they need I would expect I don't know I don't know if they I don't know if they would hold on

to him over Suggs or Anthony I personally would but we'll see The jury is still so out on Suggs I feel like I've seen enough of Anthony to know that he's not going to be

that connector that you need him to be, which kind of gets to the issue with this team. There's a lot of talented guys that are trying to prove themselves, and I think a lot of them have a lot more innate playmaking ability that we would see if they weren't all just like these reclamation projects, you know? And it's great, you know, you love the season that Bull Bull was having. You love, you know, you love false comeback.

Cole Anthony will see what he's going to be, but he's like, he's definitely not a guy who's shy about getting shots up. And there's a lot of guys in this team that aren't shy about getting shots up, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Then you also throw in like the RJ Hamptons of the world into the situation. You got Jonathan Isaac coming back. You got honestly an incredible defensive core there. But until I think there is some level of certainty in terms of what this team is going to be

and for these players, if they're going to be part of the long term picture, we're probably going to see a little bit more chucking and a little less passing, which is going to have an impact on everybody's game. Yeah. And I think that this coming draft is going to be interesting to see what they add. but on, you know, I think that they, and it's funny too in my video I was talking about how I thought that people weren't talking enough about how they have a potential like defensive player of the year kind of candidate and Jonathan Isaac and then he gets hurt again.

The guy just cannot catch a break. On the Palo thing, I think he's deserving. I definitely think he's deserving. He's had a great year. I think he's looked comfortable throughout the year. A lot of that, too, is just physically, you know, his physicality helped him. It's going to be interesting to see he just. has one of those frames that like I could see him getting he could become one of the more kind of

punishing players in that like mid-range area just because of how you know how well he can kind of get to the rim and I just I definitely think I worry though about the mid-range shooting to I'm not I'm not totally sure I guess I guess the real question that we should ask here is in relation to this next guy that's on the list and that's that's Jalen Williams who's a guy that I was a big fan of coming out of Santa Clara. I told you, I've got to find a way to stop, like, taking these players that I'm a big fan of and still somehow underestimating them. Jaila Williams was a guy who the Thunder apparently reportedly were on all year, that he was their guy that they really wanted badly, aside from Chet. Williams had sort of a rough start to the year in terms of shooting it.

He, over the course of the year, his last 10 games, actually, he's been putting up almost 20 points per game, 5.1 assist, six rebounds. But he's been hitting 46.4% from three, which matched up more with what we saw from him in college. He was a 44.3% catch and shooter from Santa Clara at Santa Clara next year. I think this is a guy. I said this at our live show in Salt Lake City. I really, really think this guy could make like a significant leap from like ages 22 to 23. He's getting ready to turn 22 years old.

what do you think about the Bain developmental trajectory as a way to sort of create your expectations for Jalen Williams? Oh, that's interesting. So, I mean, I get where you're coming from in terms of being an older guy who has, you know, come in and maybe we don't necessarily assume that he will improve. In the same way, I think McKeel Burgess talked about this on JJ Redick's podcast, like, hey, I'm still going to get better. Just because I'm not 19 coming into the NBA, it doesn't mean that I'm not going to improve. And I think that there is a similarity there. But man, like, Jalen Williams' ceiling and his athleticism and what he's shown us in terms of, you know, the flashes of superstar potential

are way higher than I think we've seen in Bain or McHale or any of those guys. You know, I think incremental improvement is something that is important. You know, that's the road that those types of players almost have to go down because of some of their physical limitations, right? Just like when it comes to athleticism with Bain, I think one thing that unfortunately, it's the reason that he went as low in the draft as he did, but will unfortunately impact his ceiling is his wingspan.

You know, as much as he works on his finishing moves, I think he's going to be a guy that's always going to struggle to get above that 60% from the restricted area range, right? Well, he's going to be great in all these other areas. And I think McAil is similar, too, where I'm not sure you are going to see him be the type of guy that can put pressure on the rim, no matter how good he gets, because that is just a natural limitation.

I think, like, for the most, it's, it's, and it's, it's, it makes sense, right? Like, the rim is a place that everybody else is trying to protect. So if, unless you are an overpowering dominant force, it is going to be hard for you to get a lot of volume and efficiency in that area. And you look at Williams, on the other hand, right? Like he is shooting 70% from the restricted area this season. And that's also where a majority of his attempts are coming from. Like he has been very, very paintbound.

And it's almost the opposite of the Bankero situation when you talk about discernment. And it's something that you have to, you know, it's something where you have to assess bankero a little bit more fairly, in my opinion, as a result of that. But you also got to give Williams a ton of credit for being intelligent and being able to pick his spots. Like this is a guy who has not built out his midrange game yet. and he's going to need to, and there are signs in both his, like, fluidity of his shot that show you that he can do that. But at the same time, he's not there yet. And you know what?

Less than 5% of his attempts come from the mid-range area. You know, over the last 20 games, 20% of his points are coming from the free throw area. So he's putting a ton of pressure on the rim, and that's what he should be doing. And he's a great cutter. He's obviously just like, you know, he's got the 7-2 wingspan, the athleticism, and just a ton of moves. around the rim. His footwork is really good as well. He's got some good counters. And he just knows, he knows how to score down there, right? So he can do it consistently. But he's also like, you know, he's not the number one or he's recently kind of the number two option for a lot of the season.

He wasn't really even the number three option on the thunder. So it kind of makes sense that his numbers have in what they are. They're going to be lower than Polos. But, you know, when you see what he's doing as of late and the progress that he's made, especially as a shooter, he's shooting 40%. above the break in the last 15 games, you have to also consider in his, you know, in his shooting efficiency, the easiest three in the game

is not one that he takes a lot. He's just not taking a lot of corner threes at all. And that's interesting because when you're building up your shooting range, I feel like that is kind of a natural shot to be starting with. It's a place that he also finds himself in like a reasonable amount,

but I also think his tendency is to cut when he's in the corner. But it's just not a shot that he shoots a lot. So he is kind of more, he's more perimeter bound too, right? Like you'll find him handling the ball from that area. So it makes sense that a lot of his three-pointers come from that area. But it also, I mean, it speaks well to his ability to, you know, become a really good shooter. Yeah, I think that's probably why, though, like what you said.

Like, I think the fact that he is like a second side creator, like he's, if he's not involved in the action and handling it, you know, if he's in the corner, he's probably more likely going to be cutting. And I think that makes sense. and if he's above the break, yeah, this season, he is 1.4.8 points for possession as a cutter, which is 85th percentile.

He's, like you said, he's 77th percentile as a finisher at the rim. You mentioned him being like the third option for OKC prediction here,

and I don't think this is wild. I think he's going to become their second option. I really do. I just think that he's... We're watching it. It is happening. It is happening.

Yeah, it is happening. It's not even a prediction. I mean, I'm just sort of pointing at thing and saying it. I do think that the star thing has been a development over the second half of this season. I think at Summer League, we saw him attack the rim. We were like, okay. Okay, all right.

And then over the course of this year, if he starts to get that dynamic, the rim pressure is the thing that has been the most surprising to me over the course of the season. Like you said, if the three-point shooting comes around, which I kind of think it does. I do think he still needs to speed it up and get a little more fluid with it. His makes look weirder to me sometimes than they did in college. That could be the length of the line. Some of them are not as clean. He's like rattling them in, things like that.

These are like stupid shit that I pay attention to. But I feel some promise about it. Like, I feel some optimism about it. And I do think that the mid-range game stuff is going to get there. I don't know if he'll ever get to the level of being like a primary heavy load creator because he's playing with one. But he balances Shea in a really nice way in a way that also could take. pressure off of giddy in a way that's going to be best for him. Yeah, they have a really interesting dynamic where I think, you know, Shea is also kind of like

primarily within the three point line type of player. They both put a ton of pressure on the rim. They both put a ton of pressure, pressure on you at the free throw line. But they kind of, I mean, they kind of strike me as, this is not a perfect comparison because of the shooter that Tatum is. And also because these two guys project out to be better playmakers. But the Jalen Jason Tatum duo

kind of reminds me of these two guys. And maybe this is also because Jalen Brown is a great comparison for Jalen Williams. Well, look at that, Jalen. But, yeah, I don't know. It's just, it's one of those things where it kind of reminds me of the

pressure slash releasing that you like to talk about, right? In that magic video, I think you said something along the lines of basketball as a game of pressure and release. That's kind of like the essential yin and yang of a solid NBA offense. You need both of those things. And I think the Thunder as a roster, they need a little bit more release. You know, I think they need Giddy's shooting numbers to get there. I think they need Williams as a shooter to get there.

I think Shay is pretty much decided when you talk about discernment, well, like look at how much Shay is shooting three. breeze, right? He's not. I think they could use more spacing around both of those guys, especially. How do you do that, though? That was going to be my next question. What's going to be, do you think in the front court, now we can assume that Chet's going to come in and give some of that. We've seen that the other Jalen Williams, kill me now, is the other Jalen Williams has shown a little bit of a propensity to shoot from three. You think Chet and that guy, then maybe they draft another like sort of three, four that can really shoot the ball in space because you got to factor doored in there is nice to have as well. I'm just kind of wondering if that's enough of

a plan going forward for them to kind of get to, you know, all these individual agendas are nice, but like for the Thunder. I've spent some time thinking about that. I'm just wondering, Chet will add some passing and some shooting to their team. Do you think that's what's missing? You're talking about the spacing? I mean, I think maybe if you look at the long-term projection for this team. And it kind of depends on how he feels about it. But how do you feel

about Lou Dort being your sixth man? Because that guy has not met a shot that he doesn't want to take. So he kind of, he kind of project, like you want to have his defense in the starting lineup. Maybe he closes a lot of games, depending on who's playing well,

depending on what the matchups are. He's just such a dynamite isolation defender. But then also, Jalen kind of project out like that too. Whereas like, you know, you look at Paulo, I think he can, he projects out to me to be a really good rim protector, really good communicator. I think he'll be a good isolation defender as well.

But I think Jalen, he just has all the tools to be a great isolation defender. And this kind of, before we go back to, you know, the Thunder's configuration, this kind of gets to a sort of galaxy brain take that I've had for a little while. Jalen Williams 6-6 with a

7-2 wingspan. I love this take. Yeah, this is a good one. So I almost wonder, is it better to be a little shorter and have a 7-2 wingspan than it is to be like 6-10, 6-11 with, I don't know, also. We can say also a 7-2 wingspan. We can say a 7-foot wingspan. I'm going to shave a little bit off the wingspan here for this comparison. Let's make it a 7-foot wingspan. or just like your wingspan is basically your height.

I got a great example. I got a great example for you. Okay. Kevin Durant is supposedly 7 foot 5 and I think he has like a 7, 6 wingspan or something like that. Or it's close to that. Do you think that would be. You mean 7 feet tall? Yeah.

Do you think that would be better than if he were like, I don't know. Well, would that be better than him? I think Kevin Durant might be the exception that proves a rule. Well, would it be better if he were 7-4 with a 7-6 wingspan? Like it's a little better because he's more mobile. Like we've seen Wimby, I don't know, like Wimby being as huge as, no, that doesn't work because he has an even longer wingspan. I'm just trying to think of like your skill set is it more enabled. We haven't thoroughly fleshed this out.

We're kind of dune in the moment. Continue your thought process. I was trying to think of an example of this. I think KD is kind of like the exception that proves a rule here, right? Because he's been able to use his height and his fluidity to be, well, basically like the best score. in a generation, right? But that is just not very common, right? So with a guy like Jalen Williams, because he stands at 6'6, he has a lot more balance and he has a lower center of gravity and he probably is less likely to get injured. He also fits right into this sort of crop of players who

mix the talents of a football player into basketball player. Paulo Bankero was also, you know, he played quarterback in high school. He kind of does similar things too. And I love, I just, you know, I think when you get down to it in the playoffs, I think strength almost always wins out. And I think, you know, Katie kind of, he has run into it too. Like you think he has struggled against physicality in the playoffs before. It was obviously like the Celtics last year being the best example. But yeah, this sort of prototype of guys that can protect the rim

and also give you a lot on defense in other ways because of their wingspan that also are a little bit lower to their ground. So they can kind of beat you with their strength. They can turn into bowling balls and on the drive. And they can, you know, just kind of like they can't be backed down as easily. I wonder if it's just kind of that perfect mix that allows them to play a lot of different styles. I think, you know, Williams is going to project out to be a guy that I think would be able to defend one to five because of that. I don't know if I go all the way one to five, but he definitely is going to be versatile, like for sure. I don't know if he's going to be as rangey and as like an OG type player.

But I don't know. It kind of seems like we both are more excited about Jalen, but I don't know if that's the case. Looking at these other, I mean, I think we probably should put a bow on it somewhere. But I was going to add, it's interesting among these players in terms of their on-ball usage, how it's varied. You know, Palo has been by far the most isolation-heavy of this class, of this rookie class. And if you look at it,

Jay Nivey is the most prolific, you know, pick and roll ball handler in this, in this group. He's had a lot of room to kind of experiment in the absence of Cade. Hasn't always been the most efficient. He had a couple efficient nights

the other night against the Celtics and against, I believe the magic. And then, but then you look at somebody like Keegan, we're talking about fitting into something, something that's already working. Kegan Murray is shooting like over 40% from three

on like six attempts in a team that, it's played out exactly like we thought. He's way more of an off-screen player. He's way more of a dribble handoff player by far than any of these other rookies. And he's doing that efficiently. And I guess, like, if you want to reward, it's not like these guys are setting the world on fire with their, like, on-ball efficiencies. I'm just wondering, does it make sense to reward these guys who are in situations where they're not winning as much as opposed to these guys who are off the ball? I don't know, what do you think about that?

I think it's a little bit situational, right? Like, I think in Matherin's case, he's someone who is benefiting greatly from the situation that he's in. So you think he'd be, like, way more inefficient if he were playing with, like, a pistons or a rockets? If you put him in the bank arrow role, I think that his efficiency drops a ton.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't think that he has, you know, the versatility in his scoring arsenal yet to deal with being a guy who gets, you know, coverage the way that a number one guy does. And we're basing that on his playmaking decision. But if you look at, counter that. If you, that's a cynical thing, you're doing, you're doing a cynical projection of Benedict,

which I don't disagree with. Well, I think it's just a matter of where he is right now. I don't think it projects, like, I don't think we can say who he's going to be in like four or five years. No, I just mean if you flip them because if you look at like Keegan, Kegan's been very efficient in what his role is. if we like imagine in a less cynical way, like about like, I'm not dinging you for being cynical. That would be, I would eat up a lot of time in my life if I did that. I just think.

It would make you a bit of a hypocrite in my opinion. Okay. That's true. But no, I mean, like, Keegan has been very efficient in the stuff that he's doing. I don't know. I'm just trying to think about like, is there any kind of an argument for somebody in his situation? I think in some years. Yes.

I think you've seen it play out in some years too. but I think this particular year I just don't think we've seen enough from Keegan and I think he could handle more so that's not necessarily fair to him but we'd also see we'd have to see what he did

when he handled more I think it would project out well but I also think I mean Bankero has just been too good in my opinion for that to really be a conversation and as excited like you know I think at the same time

we're really excited about Williams I'd almost put it like Bencaro was my rookie of the year but if you ask me who I think is going to have the best career, I would say Jeline Williams. Oh, okay. You should write this. This is a good take. That's interesting.

Magic fans. What do you think about that? At Sir, it's okay. My phone number is, just kidding. No, that's an interesting take. I don't know. Like, in terms of, I think what you're saying is, and I think this is interesting, what you're saying, I think, is that, like, he is starting.

starting strong and that, but you think that his ceiling based on like maybe the path that he's on as like a primary who's eventually going to have to develop into an efficient score and sort of create those releases in his game, that you're maybe less confident about his ability to hit that tippy tops. You tell me if I'm right or wrong, hit that tippy top ceiling as opposed to the track that Jalen's on, which is secondary creator evolves into maybe a little bit of a hybrid between secondary and primary. You're more confident about his ability to develop into that than you are like palo to hit the top ceiling. Is that what you're saying ultimately? Yeah, ultimately. I think I would speaks more to my confidence in Williams than it is a knock on Bankero. Okay. I think that's an interesting takeaway from this conversation. It's all I'm saying.

Yeah. But I think we should also make sure just as a jumping away point here that Walker Kessler has just been an amazing surprise to who hasn't really been offensively involved at all. He's heavily just a cutter and a roller. But he's done those things fairly well for a rookie and been a great rim protector. So as a drop guy. So I just wanted to throw that out there. The rookie of the year race, it's probably going to be Palo. But weigh in with us on those other questions if you're interested.

Yeah, definitely. Let us know what you think. Please don't at me for real. I won't see it. Kyle might. If Kyle favors it or replies to it, then I'll see it. But Kyle is basically my filter for which mentions I actually. see in which one's a skirt by me. So at Kyle.

Totally making that up. That's true. Kyle, do you have anything you want to plug? No, that's good. I enjoyed talking rooks with you. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for joining us today, Kyle. I know you had, you had a rough, you had a rough commute to get here. You had, you know, basically three red eyes that you had to take. You've been covering a ton of college basketball. So you're an absolute grinder out here. We appreciate you.

Yeah. Thank you, Chris. Maybe possibly literally. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I wish the best for you. Please drink a lot of emergencies and hydrate and, you know, get those electrolytes up. We believe in you.

You got this. Also, self-care. Very important. Thank you, Chris Sutton, for producing. And check out the ringer. We got a ton of great content for you guys. Logan Murdoch just dropped a feature on Jalen Brown. I just have to mention that because of the amount of

Jalen talk that there's been today. Name your kids something else. That's all I'm saying. And I will be, hey, hey, come on. Come on. Get creative. Yeah. And Succession is back next week.

So I will be basically injecting succession content like an IB drip, the same way that you'll be, you know, taking all this college basketball content. I think we're going to have very different weeks, but I think they're going to be really fun for both of us. I'm going to be doing both. But anyway. All right.

I'll talk to you next week. Thanks everyone for tuning in. Have a great week. You know,