The Ringer NBA Show - Done With One-and-Dones, Plus Deandre Ayton's potential | Draft Class (Ep. 217)

Episode Date: February 23, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks debate whether the NBA should change the one-and-done rule (2:40), evaluate the potential of Arizona big man Deandre Ayton (12:47), and receive grades for their analyses (30:12). Links Jonathan Tjarks on how the NBA could adapt soccer’s youth academy model Jonathan Tjarks on the concerns about Deandre Ayton’s defensive prowess Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's show, we're going to be talking about the one-and-done rule in Adam Silver's comment on what can happen with that. And then we're going to dive deep into DeAndre Aiton, top NBA draft prospect. But before we do that, we're going to tell you to check out the Ringer podcast network, man. We get a lot of great pods out there. We got Titus and Tate on One Shining Podcast, taking a college basketball view of the game. Then on Monday, we have John Gazzalas, the host of Heat Check. Brings in new guests every week at Shea Serrano, Jason Concepcion, Juliet Littman.

Everybody from the Ringer has been on that so far. We've got more to come. Then on Tuesday you got me and Chris Vernon. And then this weekend, the Ringer, it was LeBron MJ week. It's kind of a bye week for the NBA, so we decided to take a look back and a little bit of a look forward. So be sure to check that out on The Ringer.com. And now, Draft Class. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show.

I'm Kevin O'Connor, and this is Draft Class, calling in from Dallas, Texas, as he does every Friday. It's fellow Ringer staff writer, Jonathan Chocks. What's up? Hey, man. Just got back after a fun All-Star Weekend and Ler. I had a great time, but I got to say the city a little overrated. Traffic is horrible.

Everything's very expensive. You know I'm right. Oh, come on, dude. I just moved here. I'm loving it. It's a little chilly now, but it's so beautiful, dude. The sun's out every day. I got three words for you.

Cost of living. What do you think about that, Isaac? Wow. That's a colossally bad take. Absolutely ridiculous. Listen, Charks, you know, all my interactions with you before this moment right here was very positive.

And now I have a negative tint to your image. I mean, the truth is hard to handle. I get it. I get it. Well, we might be able to change that today because Charks and I will be discussing Adam Silver's comments on the NBA's one and done rule and what might happen with that.

And then we're going to dive deep into the future of Arizona, big man, DeAndre Aiton. Yeah, what are the fun things about going out there and talking to you guys? It's kind of just brainstorming and throwing out ideas. And we've got a fewer trying out. I'm excited to see how it works. Yeah, we're going to see how that goes.

Time for class. So just a heads up on the first episode of every month, Charks and I are going to be doing an NBA draft mailbag. And so that means we want to hear for you for next Friday's episode. To submit your questions, just make sure you use hashtag Ringer NBA on Twitter or Instagram, wherever. We'll find your questions. We'll find your comments. Tweet us, DM us, and we're going to use them next week for a mailbag episode. Or we might save him for a future episode on the first of any month.

Or just email me because I'm not on Twitter very much, but my email is in my bio. What is it? Jonathan Charks at gmail.com. Yes, that's it. Perfect. Very easy to remember. Anyway, so last Saturday, NBA All-Star weekend, NBA Commissioner Adam Silver was asked about changing the one-and-done rule, which in the past, he kind of expressed that he would like to see changed, and that would allow high schoolers to enter the league again. But Silver's response suggested that the league is on the fence about it now.

DJ Ice, please play that track. In terms of the NBA, we're conflicted, to be honest. we're outside of our cycle of collective bargaining right now, which is when we generally address an issue like that. But Michelle Roberts and I have also agreed that there's no reason we shouldn't at least be discussing it right now. So we've had some meetings with the Players Association where we've shared data on success rates of young players coming into the league.

We've talked a lot about youth development in terms of whether we should be getting involved with some of these young players even earlier than when they come into college. And from a league standpoint, on one hand, we think we have to be involved. a better draft when we've had an opportunity to see these young players play at an elite level before they come into the NBA. On the other hand, I think the question for the league is, in terms of their ultimate success, are we better off intersecting with them a little bit younger? Are we better off bringing them into the league when they're 18, using our G League

as it was designed to be as a development lead, and getting them minutes on the court there? And there's also a recognition that for some of these elite players, there's no question that they can perform in the NBA at 18 years old. Silver added that the league feels the draft is better when they have more time to look at prospects. And he said, we can't forget veterans because jobs have to come from somewhere. If you're shifting the age from 19 to 18, that means more young kids are going to come out, which means older guys have to get pushed out. And he said since they're outside the cycle of collective bargaining, they can take time making this change.

So, Charks, what side of the fence should Silver really be leaning here? See, I've always kind of been more of a pro one and done guy. For starters, I'm not sure it really helps either side. As he mentioned, like, for the player's side, that's just taking jobs out of veteran guys. Why do they want to do it? And for the owners, you've got to pay more money to develop guys. It's hard to draft them.

I feel like for the most part, it has worked pretty well over the last 10 years. Yeah, I'm cool with it too. Honestly, I think the one of done has been a little bit better than I maybe would have expected it to be when it was installed. But with that said, as a fan, from an outside point of view, I like seeing those guys come in when they're ready. I think the problem is when you're going to have guys going into the draft when they absolutely should not be entering the draft. That's bad for their life.

They're not getting an education. They're probably not going to get drafted quite as high because teams aren't going to want to risk taking an 18-year-old kid who isn't ready for the league. Like you said, takes a greater investment. But there are guys who are ready to come. We lost two years of Ben Simmons because he wasn't able to enter the league immediately. There's guys in this year's draft who probably should have had the ability to enter immediately. And that's where I think for the players, giving them the choice would be a positive thing for the league. And for teams, the more variance in the draft man can be good.

Like if you have some guys that enter the league when some teams have them 25th, other teams have a ranked 5th, that's how you find steals. And that's something I would like to see from an excitement standpoint as a fan. See, I worry, though, from the other side of it, I feel like the draft already is pretty high variance. Like the teams that are good at drafting make a killing already. There are a lot of teams that just frankly aren't very good at it. And maybe it's kind of weak to say,

but those teams have to be supported. I know my Mavericks, if they're not drafting guys after high school, who knows they're going to draft. And you're talking about guys like Jordan Bell who the NBA saw three years of him in college, and yet he still fell to 38th and still the warriors were able to pluck him out

and trade for him on draft night. Those are the type of guys you're talking about, right? See, I think for me the concerns more as someone like Andrew and Aaron Harrison. So you remember them in high school. These guys are like, oh, they're for sure lottery picks. They're going to change a team. They have this great size for guards.

They get to college and everyone's like, Cliff Alexander, another one. Yeah, they're like, oh, man, these guys are really slow and just not very good. They kind of got exposed. Now, imagine if you're an NBA team, you draft Andrew Harrison number five overall. That could sink your franchise for years. Of course. And that's what I think Silver was kind of hitting at here.

Because when you last spoke about this in September, or October, I forget when exactly it was, I think Adrian and Wardenowski reported that there was movement towards removing the one and done. And that aligned with everything I was hearing that it seemed like a lot of executives expected perhaps the 2019 draft would be the draft that would allow high school players to come in. So that means the now current 2020 guys would be allowed to come in in 2019. But that seemed to have changed. I do wonder if a long way with what you're saying, charts, that NBA executives are like, whoa, wait a minute here. We want more time seeing these guys. guys, not less time when we have to go across the country to little high school gyms where these players aren't playing at a high level against a higher level of competition like they do in college. So I do wonder if maybe NBA executives don't want to see it changed, but I have heard from some in the league that absolutely would because they do want that higher variance. They do want the Andrew Harrisons and the Aaron Harrison's getting drafted fifth because

that means the guys that they perceive that they have an edge, they're going to be able to get later in the draft. I mean, I think for like the really sharp guys, this could help. them a lot for sure. I'm just not sure that making it better for the really sharp guys is better for the league as a whole because there's a lot of teams that kind of need help. So the good teams get better, the bad teams get worse? Yeah, we're already kind of at that point. Would you be okay with the one and done rule if players that entered the league could come in immediately out of high school, but if they went to college, they had to stay for two years? Would you be okay with that or is that just a

lateral move in your eyes? See, to me, that's just lateral movement because like all the problems of drafting high school guys are still there. And now you're just making them stay an extra. year after I'm not quite ready. I get the perspective from like a moral perspective. It does seem a little weird that these guys can make money at 18. It's just when you try to actually apply it practically to the league as it is now, it's not as hard as it might seem on the surface. And really, it's not the NBA's concern how it is morally, as much as it might bother us. This is a business. There's a lot of money on the line here. So you mentioned it's a business. I know there's quite a few people out there who would like to see the NBA kind of adapt the European

model by opening more academies. And Silver did allude to the, that saying, you know, maybe we should interject at an earlier age. Is that something that you would like to see is kind of a full measure rather maybe than keeping the one and done or just removing the one and done is more of a half measure? Yeah, see, I actually did a story on this for the start of the season. And I went out to FC Dallas, the soccer team here. And they have an academy for like guys as young as like 11 or 12 years old where they get hands on training. They interact with the players. And then they go to school like for half the day after they work out all morning. That's a kind of change, if we're going to make a change, let's make a real change. Let's not go a little half

measure, let guys go after high school. Because realistically, a guy like DeAndre Aiton, he should probably be a pro at like 16 or 17. He's already wasting his time in college from a big picture perspective. If you want to read Charks's article, we'll link to that in the description of the podcast. Great article by Charks last September, focusing on kind of the European soccer model on how it can be applied to the NBA. But Charks, I kind of have gotten some good feedback from any people on that. And it's changed my mind because I was with you. And one of the thoughts that was bounced back at me was, well, in Europe, one of the problems that they have is that when you are bringing in younger guys to play soccer or basketball or whatever the sport may be at 14, 15,

16 years old, oftentimes those kids are getting pulled away from an education when really they might not have a real future playing professional sports. So their time may be more dedicated to sports and they may be getting better training, and that may help a lot of guys develop ahead of their future professional careers, but for the guys they don't, yeah, from a moral perspective, not a business perspective, it can be hurting a lot of guys, and that kind of made me hesitate, like, well, wait a minute, maybe this isn't the best idea if it's hurting kids that don't have a future in the NBA or don't even have a future playing internationally for that matter. So that's kind of made me hesitate with going that far. I heard that response too, and the thing about it is, in the

FC Dallas model, like these kids, they go to school like four or five hours a day. They're going to prom. They're going to all this like high school stuff in the afternoons. And if we're going to be honest, the current system throws a lot of kids away too. How many kids go to like four high schools and four years and don't ever go to school. And the FC Dallas model, they have a professional coach who's like, hey, you fools better to go to class. I'm watching. I know your teachers. And the AIU model is like go to some random high school's uncredited, like prime prep for example. How many kids is ruined their careers going to prime prep. That's 100% true, really.

I mean, it almost speaks to a larger underlying issue with the education system in America. And that's something we're not going to delve into completely, but it's a good point, sharks. You know, I mean, maybe for some kids in the United States being able to go to an academy where you do have perhaps better mentors, better teaching, maybe that could be a good thing for them in the United States,

even though it doesn't work elsewhere as well as it can, it doesn't mean it wouldn't work here necessarily. Yeah, I mean, you're definitely right. We're not going to solve all of America's educational problems in this podcast. Much we maybe should, but we have to get into other things right now, unfortunately. Yeah, we're going to get the one-shining podcast guys on here at some point to talk more in depth about the one and done. But for now, we're going to take a break in here from our sponsors. Today's podcast is brought to you by Belvedere.

Produced in one of the world's longest-running distilleries, Belvedere vodka is the world's finest, all-natural vodka. Crafted by a collective of master and distillers, Belvedere is made with non-GMO polish rye, pure water, and no additives. Recognized for quality, Belvedere's named the ISC World Vodka Producer of the Year in 2015, 2016, and 2017. Belvedere's unparalleled quality is reminiscent of the King, aka LeBron James' recent run, where he has made the NBA finals an astounding seven consecutive times from 2011 through 2017, including three NBA Finals MVP awards. LeBron, whether he's with the heat or the cavaliers, always plays basketball of the utmost quality, just like Belvedere vodka.

Enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere vodka today. And remember to always drink responsibly. And we're back. If you remember on our first episode, John, you compared Luca Don't Chitch to Larry Bird, which birthed our new segment right here. Comp Rushmore! What's Comp Rushmore all about, sharks? Well, I got a lot of pushback for that comparison, and I decided, let's lean into it. Let's have more comparisons and let's have more freedom to make them.

Because we're all just having fun here, right? Let's kind of think outside the box. It's not a two tied down to one comparison. So like Comproshmore, we're going to make four comparisons. Some of them are maybe not quite as serious. Some of them are what they could be. Some of them are what they might be in a bad situation. And we're just trying to find a happy medium somewhere in the middle.

Yeah, this is kind of an outlet to talk about prospects and their potential possible outcomes moving forward into their NBA careers. And this week we're going to start off with DeAndre Aiton, a freshman center prospect from Arizona. He's averaging 20 and 10, 7 foot tall, big, thick, muscular guy. Charks, throw us the comparisons. Okay, so I'm going to run through four comparisons, Kevin. Tell me how off base I am with some of these. So I'm going to start.

The comp, I'm not sure as a compliment. That's to Marcus Cousins. The guy he should be comp, Carl Anthony Towns. The, what if this is all he is comp, Hassan Whiteside? and then I think the one that's going to be people most upset, how good would this guy be in today's NBA comp? That's Patrick Ewing. Oh.

So are you saying with the Patrick Ewing comp, because Chris Vernon on last week's episode of the Ringer NBA show, kind of hated on me for comparing Aiton to Ewing. Are you saying with the, how good would this guy be if he were in the NBA today comp that maybe Ewing isn't as much of a compliment as people might think it is? I'm not even sure. Like, I remember, like, when the Knicks hired Don Nelson

back in like 96. Don Nelson, the profit of small ball, who kind of saw the whole league how it was going. You love small ball so much charts. And Nellie was like Patrick Ewing. I mean, he's great, but I want to shoot threes, man. I want to spread the floor. I don't want to throw it inside. I'm done with this. And the Knicks for had no time for it. They fired Nelson right away. But maybe he was on to something. Maybe. And like, let's be clear, Patrick Ewing is a great basketball player. He'd be great in any era. But would he be the best player on a championship team in 2018? I'm not sure. So with Aiton, I mean, we touched on this in the first week when we're talking about Jaron Jackson. Where is the source of concern there for him? Because with a lot of these comps here, we have Boogie who is an up and down, low effort defender, kind of a little bit of a hot head. I don't know if that applies to Aiton there.

With Carl Towns, obviously up until this season, in the past maybe two months or so, his defense has been really, really shaky when it comes to reads and effort as well. Then Hassan Whiteside, obviously a guy who is slow to develop in his career despite his immense size and his talent. even then, he's somebody who maybe hasn't developed a shot. Are you worried with Aitin's shooting? What is really, I guess, the rationale behind some of those comps? Because all those guys are good players. Yeah, they're all good, for sure. But the question is, are they the championship level player?

I think for me, the concern is, if you look at Aiton's defense versus a guy like towns or Whiteside or even cousins in college, Aiden blocks fewer shots than those guys. And shot blocking is clearly not the whole end-all be-all of rim defense. But if you go and watch and play, he just doesn't seem to have much defensive instincts. And those are things that don't necessarily develop in time. Towns has gotten better on defense in the NBA, but he was a really, really good defender in college. And Aiden just has not been. And so if Towns took three years to be good, how long will Aden take to become a good defender?

I think with Towns, I mean, that's kind of my big question here is with Towns. He was a really good defender at Kentucky. And Aiton is up and down, you know, misrotations are an issue. sometimes he's slow to read plays. And as he said, his block rate is quite low at Arizona. But with Towns, he was supposed to be a guy who made an impact defensively immediately. Aiton is supposed to be a guy who's going to be slow to develop. And I wonder how much maybe are we not looking as much as situation, the guys around him on the court,

what the player is asked to do, whereas maybe it'll flip again. Maybe Aiton will become an impactful guy immediately in the NBA, whereas Towns didn't meet expectations. Maybe it's actually Ayn's offense that might take a little bit longer to develop. I understand like this is just a hypothetical, but with Towns, I was so confident that he was going to come in immediately and be an impact player. And he fell into a really good situation with Minnesota having Kevin Garnett as mentor. And he still has been really slow to develop over the past three years. And that's why for me it's like with that comp, it's tough because your expectations for a player aren't always met. Sometimes the opposite actually happens.

Towns wouldn't boom as an offensive player right away, not on defense. I was always a little more skeptical about right away because interior defense in the NBA is just so, so difficult. Even for like these incredible athletes who are seven feet, 250, wingspan, speed, you have to not only play against bigger players and guard bigger ones, it's like you can't even really be reacting to plays on the NBA level. You have to be anticipating. That's what makes a great interior defender. You have to be totally where it's going on. You have to see all nine players around you. You have to know what they're going to do.

you have to call it coverages. It's a very, very mentally demanding position. It takes a lot of time to learn. And that's my big concern with Aitin is, yeah, he's big, yeah, he's fast. He's great. He's incredibly skilled. But Hassan Whiteshiders all those things. And he doesn't really impact the game all that much, as you might expect, given his skill set.

I think with Aiton, a lot of his success is going to come down to a situation. And so for that, we're going to move on to our new segment to discuss Aiton. On Monday's episode of Heat Check, host John Gonzalez came to our podcast studio and broke our crystal ball. Philly guys, man. You can't trust them. We need something new. So we asked Jeff Chow, C.O.O.

of the ringer if we could get something new. So we went to eBay, and we bought a time machine from this guy named John Teeter. He claimed to be a time traveler. So John Teeter, thank you to him. Shout out. And now we're going to go into the time machine and find out five years from now what DeAndre Aiton's destiny will be in the NBA. Whoa, I'm back. Charks, you know five years in the future.

You are the co-host with Kelly Rippa. live with Kelly and Charks. Hey, I must know I have a job. But anyway, DeAndre Aiton, five years from now, in the universe I went to, he landed in the best possible situation for him, John. He went to the Cleveland Cavaliers. Oh, interesting, interesting. And this is a situation for him, playing with LeBron, playing with a guy who can be a mentor for him and set an example for him. This is what I hope happens with Aiton in our reality, that Aiton lands on a situation with a winning team or a team that's on the cusp of winning.

a team like Cleveland, a team like Boston, where he's surrounded by veteran influences within a winning culture that he's able to adapt to. And I think with him, that's where my big question is. Where does he land? If he goes to a losing situation where there's not a lot of veteran influences, I think that's going to be bad for him. If he's going to a situation where they're going to change coaches, where it's two coaches in four years, that's going to be rough for him.

And we're going to be asking questions about, is he a guy who's going to be best on his second team in his sixth year. But if he lands in a winning situation like Cleveland, I feel like he's going to be able to make an impact immediately because he's going to be surrounded by the right guys. He's also going to be learning best for the long term. So with him, that's where it's so hard to rank some of these guys because we don't know where they're going to go. We have no idea, but that plays such a significant role in their success that he could end up White Side, as you said, but he could also be a better defensive version of Carl Anthony Towns. where do you like to see him go Charks?

Is there any preferences for Aiton currently with the current draft board we have? Well, that's how we have the time machine, right? Like you were saying, so we can know what happens to these guys. It is hard to predict. We do. We know. Kelly and Charks.

For Aiden, like you said, Kevin, I would worry about him on a team without a lot of veterans, on a rebuilding team that doesn't really have much of a chance of being good for a while. And a team where he can just put up good stats, not really worry about defense, and kind of develop bad habits.

I want to see Aiden go somewhere where the coach can say, hey, D'Andre, you didn't play defense tonight. You're not going to play tomorrow. And where his playing time will be directly impacted by the type of defense he plays and the defensive efforts he's making. So to me, the teams I'd worry about, I mean Sacramento, but that's obvious for any player, really. The other one, like Orlando is the same thing. Not many veterans.

They're kind of expecting a lot from him right away. There's no point guard there. There's just not much happening around him to let him kill. A place where he needs to be the savior, right? Yeah, I don't want him to be the savior. Or even a team like Dallas. They've got a young point guard, but the veterans are aging out really fast. And I think D'Andre being coached by Rick Carlisle will be good eventually,

but it would take years off Rick's life coaching him for a while. Can he be great enough offensively that the concerns defensively really aren't as relevant? See, to me, I want big guys to be good on defense. To me, a great big man almost has to be good on defense unless they're Dirk Nibitsky. And DeAndre ain't that. So he has to become a great defensive player. He can be great on offense, but if he's bad defensively, then his teams just aren't going to be that good, in my opinion.

I think with him on the offensive end of the floor, so much of it is, I mean, this is true for every single player that comes into the draft now because the importance of the shot. But so much of it is going to have to do with his ability shooting off the catch, spacing the floor from three, but also shooting off the dribble. And I like what I've seen from him, but he's still so young.

He's only 19 years old that he still is a significant way to go when it comes to making a couple tweaks to his shooting mechanics that allows him to get his shot off contested off the dribble because that's really what I think separates those really really good big men and those great scoring big men and so even though we can project the head with him I do wonder perhaps with him he's going to be more of a cleanup guy inside who shoots three's okay early in his career where you mentioned Jackson another week mobba they can fit into more easy roles within a team construct earlier in their career too. So there could be a little bit of impatience,

I think, for a fan base that's expecting too much too early with him. Well, it's kind of the same thing with Bagley. So these guys are so great on the inside in college, you really can't blame them for just demanding the ball, posting up and dunking on fools. That's what they should be doing in college because they're incredible at it.

But it's just that that type of players no longer that valuable in the NBA, really. There isn't a great NBA team that throws a ball inside 25, 30 times a game. There just isn't. And so he has to either be so great that he can force the league back in that direction, which is possible. Like, it's possible Aden is such a dominant post player that a guy like Dremont Green just straight up can't guard him.

If Drey Green's guard in D'Andre Aten, he's getting like three fouls in ten minutes. That's possible. That's one outcome. The other outcome is DeAndre has his perimeter game. We don't really get a seat all the time in Arizona. Once he gets to the league, plays with more spacing and has a better point guard, then that becomes more obvious. So that's really like the challenge about the draft is you can't really know for sure. You kind of have to go with your instinct, go with what you talk to other people,

and just kind of make educated guesses. You mentioned talking to other people. I added some good conversations about DeAndre Aiton over this past weekend at NBA All-Star weekend. And kind of the question I was asking people is, what do you think about his social media habits? And the reason why is because last season with Markell Fultz, he was a guy I noticed like he retweeted every single compliment said about him. And I found that very interesting. I thought it was kind of a sign of immaturity. And DeAndre Atenre does the same thing.

And this may seem irrelevant, but it's not. NBA teams look at everything these guys do. And someone brought up to me, is he doing that because is he insecure, you know, and gets a dopamine rush from all the praise, retweets, and likes? And that could be problematic for him at the next level if he is insecure, that he might really need to be sheltered to be in a situation where he doesn't have all that pressure. Or is it because he's selfish, someone who views himself as a sole reason for his team success? Is it because he's a follower and he sees his other teammates to it so he does it.

And that's not a bad thing, right? I think if you're someone who adapts the people around you, if he put him in a good situation, that's a good sign. Is it because he has school pride? Is it because he knows like he's getting people excited about the game, which is totally cool? And I don't have the answer to that, but the answer matters. Because teams talk to every person connected to these players. So with Aiton, they're going to talk to his high school guy and his counselors. They're going to talk to his coaches, to his friends, his family, and is all going to be the mission of building a psychological profile of a player who a lot of our questions, John, are about really things that he has a long way to go on and it's going to take a significant

amount of work to do, whether it is ability to read the floor on defense, putting the necessary work in watching film, whether it is at developing his jump shot and improving his shooting mechanics with working closely with his coaches and having the willingness to learn. And that's where we don't have the answers there. And NBA teams don't for that matter. And I think that's really the toughest thing with a guy like Aiton compared to some of the other guys where you kind of know what you're going to get. Teams are going to have to dig really deep on him. So that's interesting you said about selfishness. I heard a really interesting theory about that. And what the scout basically told me, he said, I think the Andrei's problem is he has his

high school mentality where I got to shut down my guy. I got to win my matchup. And like, that's his main concern. And so he's not like, I'm going to help somebody else block a shot or recover. He's like, I'm going to do me, you do you, and I'm going to play my role. And he's not seeing like the bigger picture of your job as a center is to be the quarterback of the defense versus being a cornerback who just takes out one guy. Your job is to kind of play the whole team. That's a strong analogy there with him playing the corner role right now. And I do kind of see that with some of his missed rotations. And, you know, that's what you need to figure out, right?

Is he missing those rotations because he doesn't have the ability to read a defense at the speed and the pace that you need to in order to be an effective room, protector? Or is he doing it because, you know, he's worrying about just covering his own guy. He's not worrying about help team defense. And if he is worrying only about that now, can he change? Can he change being around better culture? But guess what? Arizona is a pretty good culture to be in for a college player. It's worth mentioning with Arizona. Everyone in the NBA is waiting for this to happen is at some point, Sean Miller is going to say, look, Dusan Ristich, you're a nice big man, you're a senior, blah, blah, blah, get off the court. We're going small on 8 and we're putting four guards around,

let them play center. Exactly. Because DeAndre plays a lot of power forward right now, and it's really not the best place. It kind of reminds me of Miles Turner and Texas where Texas had these older big men and they were just kind of clogging up the cord, getting in his way. And at some point, Sean Miller's got to go small around DeAndre Aiton. Otherwise,

it'll be like Lowry Market in last year. We had this incredible talent and he flames out in the Sweet 16 again. For sure. And I think that's another part of it. It's one of my frustrations often watching college basketball. There's so many two big lineups. I think that's still utilized in today's NBA. Put it this way, we're not seeing Aiton play enough center with a stretch four next to him,

and that's exactly the type of role he'll be playing in the NBA, or he'll be asked to play, at least at the end next level. I think with Aiton, though, Charks, one of the things that I do like with him, and this is on the offensive end of the floor, but he's a really good passer. He's really good. I mean, he had a kickout pass. I think it was last week, maybe against Arizona State or the week before, whenever, where he made a perfect read after getting the ball on the role

in the pick and roll and just kicked it out. And that's the type of play he's going to have to make at the NBA. And I think that's a sign of unselfishness that bodes well for him if he has the ability to learn and pick up the nuances of the defensive end of the floor. Yeah, and I mean, I think too passing. I always love, I feel like passing is kind of like the skeleton key, whereas if this guy can pass through the floor in offense, it says like high basketball IQ, ability to process information quickly, and it's ability to anticipate how his team what you're going to do.

So I'm always a big fan of guys who can pass the ball. I feel like it tends to correlate well to NBA success. So we're going to move on to extra credit. There's plenty more to learn about DeAndre Ait. And if you want to read Jonathan Charks on Aitin, find John's article either in the description below. It's great article by Charks posted on the ringer.com in December or January, I believe. The focus is on a lot of the topics we've talked about with some video in there about his defensive issues. Or you can watch Arizona versus Oregon on Saturday.

It'll be Aiton's second game against Oregon. They play zone defense. So it's not a perfect. for gauging an NBA player, but I think it's important to look for the way he cuts against that team, and they have some firepower on that end. And passing, too. You want a big to pass out of his zone. So you're just kind of watching his feel and he read the defense. Exactly. I believe he had a great pass. If you watch his YouTube video highlights against Oregon, there's a pass in there that he made. It's a perfect kickout pass, a fastball accurate to an open three-point shooter. I think missed the shot. but that's the type of play that I'm looking for.

As you said, Charks, it's a skeleton key to a guy's offense, especially for a big man. It should be a fun matchup. Oregon also has Troy Brown, a guy getting first on love on the wing. So it'll be a good chance to Aiden against some other NBA caliber players. Troy Brown, great Patriots, wide receiver, moving on, now having a solid college basketball career. Potential NBA player, too. So, Isaac, you get some grades for us. That is below my grade, did that Troy Brown comment?

You might have. You might have. You know who actually booted grade is Jonathan. in Charks, because you insulted Los Angeles in the first minute of the podcast. As a Los Angeles native, I could not let that go. Honestly, I just zoned out for the entirety of the podcast. I was just thinking about how you called my beloved city overrated. To think all my beautiful takes. Isaac, you missed so much. Oh, I had so many great takes. I'm sure I'll be able to listen to all your basketball takes on my listen back while editing

this, but your one take really ruins it all. So yeah, Charks, you fail, actually. You get an F. Our very first F on this podcast. Tough grader, man. At least you didn't get an F plus, like I gave to Larry Mark. Nice self-referential, Judge Kevin O'Connor. You know, when you were talking about the one-and-done rule and talking about the sociopolitical implications of the American education system, that's a big plus.

You know, we like to be conscious on this podcast. But then you called me DJ Ice, which is not factually accurate because I retired from my DJ career when I started working at the ringer. Oh, you were a DJ? That's cool. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's part of how I pay myself through college. Oh, man. And then you made this Troy Brown reference, which is, again, showing your homerism.

Oh, come on, man. He's a great receiver. I'm the only one who is able to be homeristic on this podcast. Therefore, you get a B minus. Okay. I'm cool with that. It's a Boston B. That's like a 2.7 GPA.

That's, yeah. Get through college on that. It's definitely better than an F, which is what Charks got. Oh, man. Jesus. Dunk on me harder, please. I love L.A. Isaac. I love it.

It's beautiful here. It's a wonderful place. Everybody looks like Chandler Parsons or Chandler Parsons. girlfriend in L.A. Especially the Ringer staffers. That is, y'all are a good-looking bunch. Yes. I see everybody out there.

Shout out to my bosses. Well, thank you for listening today. Make sure you watch Stats Under Dress with me and Jason Concepcion. Oh, this is pretty great. Definitely worth checking out. It was fun. It was crazy. There's a very embarrassing moment in there for me.

So make sure you check that out. And make sure please submit some questions for me in Sharks. Use hashtag Ringer NBA. Next Friday's episode, we're going to be answering all your questions. comments, and we might save some of them for future podcasts. We're going to be doing this on the first episode of every month. So please do that. And also, just give us a great rating on iTunes wherever you're listening to podcasts on the Ringer

NBA show. Charks, thanks for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I had a good time. Have a great weekend, everybody.