The Ringer NBA Show - Donovan Mitchell Destination Rankings, Plus Rob’s First Mailbag | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Justin and Rob start by ranking their favorite possible trade destinations for Donovan Mitchell (5:05). Then they answer a bunch of listener questions, including questions about the Thunder, summer league memories, Collin Sexton, and more (44:22). Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, everyone. I'm Ian Wright. Make sure you check out my podcast. Righty's house every Wednesday on Ringer FC. Each week, I'm joined by a rotating panel guest to talk about football, life, films, everything. Search of Ringersc on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Take it easy. And welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me, fresh back from Las Vegas, the gambler himself. It's Rob Mahoney. What's up, buddy? Justin, I'm back. I'm sun-k kissed. I'm a husk of a man. But I'm back. I think that's the important thing. You are, you are. How was it out there? Honestly, it was great. It was great to see Summer League back on its legs again,

back looking like itself. And I mean that in good ways and bad, seeing as we are technically still in a pandemic, Las Vegas not very aware of that fact. But we were living large, you know? Like, if we're going to go out, if I'm going to go out at least, I'm going to go out doing what I love,

which is watching pretty bad basketball with some of my dearest friends in the NBA ranks and the NBA media. And it was a delight. I had a great time. Yeah. Any light night poker binges?

Any tales, like dark tales from NBA media and what they're getting into at 3 a.m. Oh, there's very many. But you can't put people on blast like that. You can't put at least your colleagues can't put them on blast like that. Sure. I'm trying to think of what the staples of the nightlife were. I mean, I will say, I did have a tinge of regret. There's a big, you know, NBA welcome party for,

Summer League every year. I usually skip it. White party. It was not a white. I mean, informally, but no, not a white party. You wore beige to be, to be like slightly off kilter. I wore beige so that I could feign trying to get in

with other people and then they wouldn't let me in and I could go do something else instead. But I did have a tinge of regret on not going when I was told Rui Hachamura was DJing a set inside. I'm nerd. that. I'll never get that back. I'll never get that chance back. But it was, you know, obviously, Summer League, if you've never been before,

amazing place for celebrity sightings. You don't need, you don't have to go to the gym in which you could, you know, sidle up at a urinal next to Jerry West or something like that. But even if you just hang out at just the biggest hotels on the strip, you're going to be bumping into NBA players all over the place. And in my case, more importantly, my most important celebrity citing. Mark Murphy, celebrity chef, chopped judge, saw him just canvassing the floor

at the wind looking for, I think a table, maybe a restaurant, who knows, but I was starstruck. Wow. I'm not a chopped guy. I was more of a top chef

type of person, you know? I roll with the elitists. I get it. I see a bunch of amateurs doing this. But speaking of celebrity chefs, though, our colleague,

Jomi Adineron, among our big ringer staff that showed out, cannot go anywhere without getting mob. the ringer-verse celebrity has really gotten to Jomey's head and the ringer-verse fans showed out in force in Vegas. So that was amazing to see and daunting to see. And I guess if I need to get into anywhere,

I just tell him I'm with Jomey, I'm in. That's it. Right. Well, I'm a little jealous. Well, I'm sort of jealous. I'm not jealous of probably like how your body is feeling, but, you know, I've gone many a time. I sat out this year, in part, just to kind of take a breather.

But, you know, I had a little fomo, you know? Yeah. I remember the dog days of spending the entire time at Summer League and when I was a young man and I could still do that. Remember seeing Flav of Flav at Summer League. Daniel Orton on the craps tables, you know, there's a lot of good times out there. There are a lot of good times. And you were dearly missed. You know, we'll start the campaign now.

We're going to get you back out there for 2023. Beautiful. Anything like circulating while you're at Summer League? Like, what were people talking about for the most part? Actually, conveniently, some of the things that I was talking to people about are, the subjects that kept coming up are things we're going to get into in our mailbag today. So we don't

even need to tee it up. I will say I think that's a credit to the listeners of this podcast. Clearly, they are tapped into the NBA zeitgeist in a way that listeners of other podcasts just are not. We're on the pulse of the conversation here at the group chat, if nothing else. That's what they say. But as Rob is alluding to,

we'll get into a mailbag. First on the group chat podcast for Rob here. But first we're going to get into some Donovan Mitchell destination rankings. I should mention briefly, Big Was, not on the podcast. Obviously, he will be back, I think, in two weeks. So it's Rob and I for the foreseeable. So, so strap in, folks.

I mean, it goes without saying that Was was out there in Vegas with us, and I just have no idea where he is. Like, another person who probably died doing what he loved, although, you know, Waus and I live pretty different lifestyles, but I respect it. Sure. All right. So Donovan Mitchell, as everybody knows,

I think we talked about it last week when we talked about this as a possibility. It seems like more of a reality now, or I guess you could say, but ESPN had a report Tuesday in which Woj writes, rival teams say the jazz are now showing a willingness to listen on possible trade scenarios for Donna and Mitchell, aka I guess they're just picking up the phone. Is that what that means? I think it might. It's good to take people's calls, you know, catch up with old friends, see what's what. Yeah, but Woj doesn't put that out there if it doesn't seem like a realistic possibility. And it's been followed up today, Wednesday, by a lot of reports suggesting like, oh, well, this is probably going to happen. Scuttle But here or there, the Knicks are the favorites, yada, yada, yada.

I'm sure you're all caught up. If you're listening to this podcast, what we're going to do is going to rank some of the possible destinations. And I have them separated into four tiers because while Rob was recovering, I was separating Donovan Mitchell's suitors into tears last night. So you sound like you were learning the way of the sword. Like you were really bettering yourself and refining your talents. Yeah, it's basically Highlander. So, okay, first tier are the likely suitors. First of all, what are we ranking them by?

Like the likelihoodness they end up in these places, the end result and how successful it would be? Like, what is our metric here? The latter. Yeah, that's a good question. Let's do the ladder on like your personal power ranking of, I would like Donovan Mitchell, end up here because I think the fit would be great. I think like he he would like it. Maybe his kids will enjoy the school system, everything.

Love it. Okay. Okay. So first up, New York Knicks. Odds on favorites based on recent intel. I think there are two questions here. One is the fit. They obviously have Jalen Brunson, who everyone was making a big deal out of how this was

Jaylon Brunson's opportunity to have more time with the ball to be the front. center guy to have his name on the marquee. That lasted about two weeks. And it makes me think about the story we told about Will Barton the other day about how teams are willing to say anything to a player to get them in house. So that

would be tough for Brunson in addition to having two six foot one guards in your backcourt. So I'm worried about the fit. Yep. I'm also wondering what they're going to give up because the Knicks seem like the most desperate team on the table and Danny Aange by all accounts is going to really bleat.

some teams dry here no matter what he gets. And I have to wonder if RJ Barrett is going to be in the poo-poo platter coming back to the jazz. And so why don't we start with Barrett here, Rob? Like, do you think, like, he makes sense as, like, the blue-chip prospect you're getting in this trade?

And if you're the Knicks, like, would you even want to give him up at this point? I mean, I really like Barrett. I think he had a pretty successful season, especially from a developmental standpoint, last season. I would be looking at, at every possible version of this trade

in which I don't give him up if I were the Knicks. That's going to be tough for obvious reasons. There's not a lot in terms of like roster players that the Knicks are going to be able to throw in here that's going to entice the jazz where they are in their cycle unless they're just, you know, inexplicably high on Emmanuel quickly or something like that. But I think I think you can you can maybe entice them with the picks.

And I think that's kind of the appeal if we're coming off of in the wake of the Gobert trade. This is a team that hasn't even fully gone through the process of tearing itself down yet. Like they're still investing in draft capital. They don't have their first prospects in the door yet. Maybe picks are enough for a guy like Mitchell. If you can leave the protections at the door, if you can put enough of them on the table, if you include enough swaps, maybe that is something that can get Utah on the line here.

And so I'm wondering personally, you know, salary-wise, you still have to give up something of clear value to you or else it's just not kind of worth math, work mathematically. Is there a Julius Randall-based salary dump type trade with a bunch of picks attached? That's kind of where I would be looking and then I'm staring down at potential starting lineup

of Brunson and Mitchell and Barrett and I'm knighting Obie Toppin and getting him in there and getting him some much deserved extra run and Mitchell Robinson. That's not going to crack the top three in the Eastern Conference next season, but it sure is hell going to be fun to watch and a good investment in terms of a younger talent base with room to grow.

Sure. So the Knicks are plus four in first rounders. So they have all of their own, which, like, for anyone who's followed the Knicks, like, beyond the past decade, like, that's an achievement. So congrats to them for not just being in the hole there, but they also have four future first from other teams. They got three, I believe, in the draft night deals that they made in order to trade out the 11th pick.

So if they wanted to, and they could do what you're suggesting, basically say, hey, take Randall, but we're going to stuff you so full of picks that, like, you won't even be able to draft all these players. I think you could trade out to 2009 at this point. So you have seven of your own first. Half of those would have to be swaps just based on the, uh, the, uh, the rules in place there plus the four. So like, you can get to 11 maximum picks right there, which is like a lot. I doubt they'll have to give all of them, but they, they probably can outbid people just based on sheer volume of draft picks. I think my question is like, is Barrett the optimal. three in that scenario where you're already sharing the ball between Brunson and Mitchell. I assume they would stagger them to give them time to be like run the show in their own regard, but like shouldn't Barrett have some of that time as well? It's not ideal. You know, I, and I think even from a size standpoint and from an explosiveness standpoint,

you know, Barrett's the guy who's kind of more strong than he is hyperathletic. And then you have these other two guards who, as you mentioned, are just going to be undersized and giving up a lot on both positions defensively, pretty much every game. And so that's not where you want to be in terms of, oh, this is the perimeter orientation of our defensive scheme, is these three guys. I don't feel great about that,

but between Barrett's upside offensively, and frankly, like, what he could mean to you as a trade chip for something else. Like, if you do need to make a subsequent move, I think RJ is going to be really attractive in a way that a Randall or whoever else would be included in an alternative. construction of this deal just would not. So, I mean, it is, it is tricky in that way because Barrett's growth will be stifled by playing alongside Mitchell and Brunson and giving up a lot of offensive air, a lot of

offensive opportunity. But what else are you supposed to do? Like, I, I feel like, I feel like that's still kind of the best way forward if they can find a way through. Although, you know, from a liability standpoint, we cannot endorse on this podcast giving up 11 draft picks for Donovan and Mitchell. We are not saying that the Knicks should do that. I mean, what else do they have if they don't give up a lot of those picks, though?

I don't know. Like, even the path forward with Mitchell, Brunson, Barrett, like, they're obviously better. But, like, I don't know. Are they even a top four seed in the Eastern Conference that's going to be way more top-heavy than it was, maybe even this year? I think the answer is probably not. Yeah. I mean, after signing the Brunson contract, you're probably pot committed to be. being relevant now, right? And so I understand it from that regard, get Mitchell and make the best of

this opportunity. But I don't know, man. And like, we're just assuming that they're going to keep Barrett in this deal, which, like, we're not even sure that's going to happen. If it's not Barrett, like, you're looking at Randall, who was already griping about a lot of things, including the New York fans. And so, like, I think he's an even worse fit in that scenario. And if it's Randall, Mitchell, Brunson, I don't know, like, are we talking about a playing team still?

I think they might be able to clear it. And I mean, if we're being totally honest about where the Eastern Conference is right now, I think like the fifth and six seeds are going to be determined by health more than anything. So it's like, you know, between the hawks and the Knicks and the calves

and the teams in that kind of range, the Bulls, like, like who is going to have the season-long injury to relevant players is probably what's going to determine those things. but they can put like they've put themselves in that conversation in a more meaningful way by getting Brunson. I get why they would want to follow through on that by it, by trading for Mitchell.

They're just our limits to what you can give up in terms of the draft capital for a player like him when you're already committed to Brunson, when you're already committed to some of these other members of this core. Realistically, I don't think you get out of this deal without trading Barrett. Like, you know, we've made our case for why they should do everything they can do to avoid it even though he's not an optimal fit.

But if you're the Utah Jazz, like why, like, the picks aren't going to be compelling enough unless they're just completely distant and completely unprotected, in which case they're also not helping you rebuild your team, really. Right. Are you a barrack guy in general? I feel like we've talked about this on and off for a while now, but I always need to check in because I'm always somewhere in between.

Like, I've never been in love with him and I've never really hated him. I think he's a fine player. And I think he's the type of player that, like, you probably need to hand the keys over to or at at least like let him play, like run the offense for a little bit just to see what you have in him as like a primary creator. But I don't know. Where are you on him?

I've really kind of become one and I didn't see it coming. Wow. You know, like he's not quite my type in terms of players I would gravitate toward. You know, you would like him to shoot a little bit better. You would like to have, see him have just like a little more shake than plowing through guys.

But he's just crafty enough and just strong enough. and I guess his explosion must be just completely reduced to the first step because he's not like a one end of the court to the other explosive athlete, but he gets where he needs to go. And I think as we've become less and less enamored with Julius Randall, I find myself looking more and more over to RJ Barrett and being like, can we please just get this guy the freaking ball? But he's impressed me in just like in terms of his developmental arc so far,

a third year player going into year four. I think he still has a lot of room to grow, still has a lot he can expand as a driver and a pull-up shooter, certainly, and a playmaker off the dribble. I think he has a lot to offer a team. Yeah, I think it's convenient that he also hasn't signed a rookie extension at this point.

If he had signed it, he wouldn't be eligible to be traded. So we'll see what happens there. The other team on the board here, another Eastern Conference contender, Miami Heat, who, as we've known, what, over the past decade plus they are thirsty for any star power

that they can get their hands on and they're willing to trade away or give away anything that isn't nailed down. The presumption here is that it would be some combination of Duncan Robinson, Tyler Hero, and Picks. And now I can kind of see your eyes glaze

over here. So you do not seem super compelled by a future with Tyler Hero as your primary creator. No, no. that's putting it lightly. I do like this parlor game we're playing, though. You know, we've got Miami in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes as well.

And so it's just like, Tyler Hero, Duncan Robinson, picks. Will it get us Kevin Durant? No. Will it get us Donovan Mitchell? Probably not. You know, if we're just kind of being frank about where Tyler Hero's market is right now. Another guy who was very interesting to talk to people about at Summer League, the variance on him is even wider than you would imagine.

I will say his stock, even on the high end, I think, has come down considerably since the bubble for understandable reasons. And he was hurting the playoffs. You want to put that, put an asterisk on that in the way it deserves. But I think there's just a lot of concern about him as anything resembling a very focal option within your offense. You know, like he, he's in a place now in Miami where he's allowed to take bad shots. He's allowed to kind of freewheel because the team needs him to freewheel so desperate. but once you're like really relying on him in like a primary or secondary option basis, I think that's just a tough hang.

And it's certainly a tough hang is like I'm going to pin the long term growth of my franchise on basically Talley Hero becoming Donovan Mitchell or becoming that kind of level of player. I don't see that at all. So I don't think the jazz would be terribly compelled by the heat's offer. Though if we're ranking it on the grounds of where we want to see Donovan Mitchell go, I would love to see him on the heat for exactly the same. reasons in terms of what he's giving the heat that Hero is not. Right. So yeah, let's look at the heat side of this just quickly. If they do pull that off,

they would have Lowry, Mitchell, Butler, Bam, and probably like a Max Struz type or some guy that they just found in the G League turned into a 45% three-point shooter. Yeah. It's pretty damn good. Pretty good. And I do like that with the heat, as you alluded to, not only do they have the real Max-Struz, but you can just kind of put in pencil the next Max-Struz. on the Heat roster already. I don't know who it is, but they probably found him already. Right.

Is that the best team in the East? No, I wouldn't even go up that far. Let's relax. Justin, let's relax. Third best? You know the like Janus Hunter de Kumpo, Joe L. and B, these guys are in the Eastern Conference. You are aware of this.

Oh, you're not even considering the Celtics there. I know. That's what I'm saying. Like these, I think we need to talk about the Heat's future in a more meaningful way at some point, but they kind of look like they're getting boxed out of the east a little bit in terms of the top tier of that conference.

Maybe that's why they would be hyper-motivated to trade for someone like Mitchell because if they see the writing on the wall in that way, if they're looking at what Philly did or what Boston did or where Milwaukee is and thinking, like, are we really good enough to crack this group, then maybe they find a way to cobble together

some of their assets or make a more enticing offer there. I mean, that would not be totally shocking to me. the heat make way more sense to me than the Knicks because they are right on the verge of breaking through all they need as we saw in last year's playoffs or this year's playoffs. They need some juice. Would you rather have Barrett or Hero? I don't know if Barrett ever reaches his ceiling

but I like that ceiling way more than Hero. Hero seems destined to be Jamal Crawford Plus. I think he's in an ideal role as an off-the-bench creator who could run the second unit who could put up 25 points in any regular season game. But like you get to the playoffs, as we've seen now for what, four or five years, someone like him is just going to be attacked relentlessly.

And even though you surround him with Kyle Lowry and Jimmy Butler and Bam out of bio, if he's on the floor, he's getting hunted and he's probably getting played off the floor. And Barrett, as we mentioned, has really turned around as a defender. And like, I don't know if he'll ever have the off the dribble juice

that Tyler Hero has. And like I said, I wonder if he ultimately just becomes Julius Randall light or Julius Randall heavy or Julius Randall without the rough edges. But I don't know if I'm, I don't know. I would probably lean him over Hero. Yeah. I think that's understandable. One thing I've been thinking about with the Tyler Hero trade sweepstakes as they've, as they've become. I wonder if a team might talk themselves into him as like a ticket seller seems strong. But I will say it's very pronounced like Tyler Hero's star and reputation among kids of a certain age is Utah especially

I'm just saying I'm just saying it's uncanny it's like maybe this is just me coming off of Summer League brain where you just see like you know I don't know literally half of the under 12 kids there wearing Tyler Hero jerseys but I could see some team thinking like oh this is like a marketable star for us you know even if he's not the best player in the world. He's someone

P like our fan base might gravitate toward. Hypothetically, if you were, you know, a team who's into that kind of thing. Made for Utah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how you reset your culture. Yeah, I kind of hope I'm like rooting for the heat

to pull this off because I love that starting five. I think they would have the extra juice that they need. And like Kyle Lowry is 36. Who knows what they'll get from in the regular season, let alone in the playoffs. Jimmy Butler is 32. Like they're right on the verge and like this is the type of home run swing that they need to take in order to crack the tier to be on the level of like the Sixers and the Celtics and all them. Right now I think they're

a notch below even though they did get the first seed last year. All right. Let's go to tier two now. We're at the desperate teams. These are teams that as I was going through this are going to be really tough to pull this off because they are hard cap because they used at least a portion of the mid-level exception in order to sign bench players. Oh, I believe it was Gary Payton. in the second and I forgot who it was for the Wizards. But, oh, it was Delante Wright. I like it. Sure, but those are the guys that are keeping them

from even being in this conversation. Let's start with the Portland Trailblazers. I think it's just with them and I guess for the Wizards is that they're so committed to Dame at this point that you probably need to make the most of your current situation. And while trading for Mitchell would be tough, you're pretty much giving up every young player that isn't nailed down at this point. We're talking Josh Hart, Shaden Sharp, Nasier Little, Justice Winslow, Keon Johnson.

That's what, five players already that you have to find replacements for under the hard cap. So it's already very difficult. But like theoretically, a Mitchell Dame back court, all offense, what do you think? No. Okay. I'm out. Because they already have Simons, who I should mention can't be traded until like January, which is why he wouldn't be in this deal.

But I think a Simons for Mitchell swap makes way more sense. I think the Simons piece makes it cumbersome and more so just like if Portland is trading for anything, Donovan Mitchell is basically the last kind of archetype of player I would want to trade for. Nothing gets him personally. I think Donovan Mitchell is a really good player. It's just not what Portland.

Portland needs in literally anyway. So they are desperate. They do want to get better. They've made some efforts to close that gap and maybe get themselves in the playoff mix in a more meaningful way. And a healthy dame will go pretty far in that regard too. But I don't like it. I don't like the smell of that pairing.

All right. Well, same thing with the Wizards here. The poo-poo platter includes Kyle Kuzma, Monty Morris, who just got traded there, friends with Kyle Kuzma growing up. They get to go live out their days in Portland together. taste some some IPAs on the weekends, you know, they'll have a good time. Rui Hachamura, Corey Kisper,

Rui Hachamara continues his DJing career in the hotbed of techno, that is Portland. We need to confirm what his DJ name is. I didn't catch it, but he's got to have a tag, right? I think this is your next long form article, honestly. We'll get to the bottom of it. And then draft picks. So your core now becomes,

Donovan Mitchell, Bradley Beal, Christops Porzingis. That's fine, I guess. I like it better than Portland, but I don't see the need to move heaven and earth here. I mean, I'm much more in the, how soon can we trade Bradley Beal?

Part of the Wizards conversation than I am. Let's bring in more stars for Bradley Beal to play with. And maybe if you see Donovan Mitchell as the next Bradley Beal, maybe it makes sense in a kind of different capacity, but their fit, I think, would just be kind of okay. defensively it's almost as bad as Mitchell and Dame or Mitchell and Brunson like Beale is no great shakes there so I I don't I don't love the fit I don't love kind of the vision of what that team could be yeah I'll stick with Dale on right I'll stick with

Montemoris like let me let me roll out with those guys I guess okay this next group was originally part of the second tier but they like getting there makes a lot more sense. It's easier to package a couple players and make the cap mat with the work. And I also think they're both teams that don't necessarily need Donovan Mitchell, but they could

do it in order to level up. If you're saying, hey, what we have right now works, we're already good in the case of our first team, the Boston Celtics. We're very good. We just made the finals. We pushed the Golden State Warriors. But opportunity is there

to get Donovan Mitchell on this team and it would cost us in theory Marcus Smart, Danil Gallinori, Gallinari, excuse me, my Italian roots are just portraying me here, Peyton Pritcher. You could also flip in a Grant Williams, a Derek Wright. So interesting guys, right? Not like total nothings. You could probably repackage some of these guys or just like build along with them plus picks. What do you think? I don't think the picks are good enough. And that's kind of one of the problems if you're one of these teams that's already quite good. So, I mean, Celtics are a great team.

I think they're in a different category clearly than a lot of these other, these other Donovan Mitchell contenders. But like if you're, if you're Utah, are you feeling really great about a 20, 25 first round pick from the Celtics when they have Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown at this stage when they've shown how much they can capitalize on their talent base and their versatility?

I wouldn't love that, especially when the guys you're getting back are like useful players to teams who are further along in their developmental cycle than you all. So maybe it's like a weird hybrid three-team construction where, you know, the gallows and the smarts go somewhere else. But I can't see them really moving the needle for Utah. And frankly, from Boston standpoint, I think Mitchell, while would be a huge talent in, you know, infusion for that team. Might be doing too much for a team that just went to the NBA finals. I don't know that they need, I don't know that they're Donovan Mitchell away from winning.

I was told that in Vegas that at least at one point, they were the betting favorite to win the title currently. And you can kind of see how, if you look East versus West, where, you know, I think the West is going to be pretty competitive up top, pretty crowded up top. And the East, these other contenders are really good too, but it's nice to be the incumbent, you know, and to bring in a Brogden and bring in a gallo and do something that's like a little more subtle than, oh, let's take a huge swing for this star who's kind of redundant with our best guys and make it work. Those aren't the problems I'm inviting into the Celtics locker room. Right. I mean, you bring up a really great point where if you're getting future picks back from some of these teams, you're essentially shorting their future. Yeah. And you don't want to do that.

You don't want to do that for a blue chip franchise like the Boston Celtics. If you're the Knicks and you got those triple Bs in there and it's more like the housing market, you're expecting that the fall. And that's like a good bet to make, right? although I will say if you're trading out so far in the future, we're talking 2029, like, who knows what the Boston Celtics are going to be at that point? Are we 100% certain that Jason Tatum's going to sign as Supermax when he's available to do so? Are you sure that Jaylen Brunson is going to stay there as the number two guy forever? Like, it's impossible to know, especially considering we were just talking about Donovan Mitchell like two years ago is the face of like

the Jazz is this upstart team with Rudy Gobert that was so good in the regular season. And here they are. Justin, I'm not 100% sure I'm going to make it to the end of the end of the into this podcast. So don't even talk to me about 2029, please. Right. Okay. So like maybe a team that's probably a little less right there in terms of, uh, contention for the title, Toronto Raptors. A team that has a bright future, but you do wonder like, okay, it's Scotty Barnes and we have Seacum, but like all these other guys are like fine. You know, if I could cobble them together and get a star and if Kevin Durant proves too difficult, like maybe Donovan, Mitchell is the next best thing. And so you're talking Gary Trent plus

Kemp Birch in picks. You'd also throw in precious Ochoa. They have a lot of like interesting young guys Malachi Flynn. There's flots them there. You can make it work if you're saying like, oh, actually the Raptors, you know, maybe their picks are more like in the middle of the first for a couple years. Is that more interesting to you? Much more interesting. Now you're speaking to me. And I think some of it is, although the Raptors would have similar fit issues in some ways as some of the other teams we've talked about. For example,

you know, a Fred Van Vleet, Donovan Mitchell backcourt is still very small. But Fred Van Vleet's like an all-defense level guard, you know? So you have something there in terms of the balance of their skills. He's also a guy who's great off the ball, who knows how to move, but can also play makes to the point that Donovan Mitchell isn't burdened with being a full-time point guard.

And then you have, you know, depending on who else is around, depending on what the rest of your construction looks like, depending on if you also and or trade for Kevin Durant. I mean, God, I can't even juggle both those trade possibilities at once. I think that might be doing too much. But I do like Mitchell there. I do like the juice that he gives them alongside guys like Van Vleet and Seaccom and Scotty Barnes, obviously is a big part of that.

O.G., we'll have to see kind of what his future with that franchise looks like, but I like Donvin Mitchell there. They go from a team of just all six eight, six, ten guys to one of the smallest back courts in modern NBA history. But wait, does Mitchell, someone who's going to obviously occupy the ball a lot, does that make sense with Barnes and Seacom there, especially with Barnes,

a guy seems like everyone around the league is just in love with the point where some people are like, no, don't trade him for Kevin Durant. Like, do you want to actively take the ball out of his hands and be like, find more of an ancillary role around Seacum and Mitchell? It's a totally fair point. And I think some of what made Scotty Barnes' rookie season

so noteworthy and so surprising, was that capacity on the ball. You know, I think a lot of people were expecting him to be, oh, he's going to fill the gaps. He's such a good mover. He's such like an intuitive player. He's just kind of kind of find his spots. But no, he's a guy you can give the ball to run pick and roll,

run weird inverted pick and rolls, run all kinds of action through him. I hear your point. And if you are sold on Scotty Barnes as being a superstar level prospect, and that's, I mean, that's a whole conversation in itself, is if he is that or not. But if you're sold on that possibility,

do not trade for Donovan Mitchell. Do not trade for someone who's going to stand in his way like that because frankly, for as prolific and as successful as Mitchell has been, we have seen kind of how he can stand in the way of the development and the enabling

of some of his teammates in terms of, he's just not a guy who's going to like necessarily put everybody in the best positions to succeed. He's a guy who's going to help you by attracting a lot of attention, by scoring a bunch, by being a threat in transition

and on the secondary break. And he's just like, he's so dangerous in those capacities, you're going to naturally kind of draft some value off that. But, you know, he's not going to find you on that backdoor cut, Scotty Barnes. I'm sorry. Yeah. So I think these are the two most interesting

teams on the board, because I do think the most interesting position you could be in the league is you are good, should we take the risk of being great? It worked out with Kauai, although like the downside there probably wasn't as extreme as it would be for some of these teams. Like the Celtics are throwing away a team that just made the finals.

The Raptors have more of a runway here with the Scotty Barham-Syakum core than they did with the team that fell flat on its face against LeBron 30 straight times. The last year, the ultimate dark horses, pretty much some of the best teams in the NBA who might say like, you know what, let's fucking do it. And they're just going to give everything in order to make Mitchell fit in here. Some of them, it proves problematic just because of what they'd have to give out. Probably doesn't make sense.

But I just want to talk about them more theoretically. which of these teams do you find most interesting as a fit for Mitchell? I had the Golden State Warriors, the Phoenix Suns, the Dallas Mavericks, and the Philadelphia 76ers. It's got to be the Mavericks. I mean, we've already seen kind of what a Spencer Dinwiddie, what a Jalen Brunson can do. I mean, you stretch out that role and you give it to Donovan Mitchell. That's a lot of what they've needed in terms of secondary ball handling. I will say Mitchell would have to kind of accept a different sort of prominence and

different sort of focus within the offense because that's Luca's team. Like Luca's a different level of teammate and of creator than Mitchell has ever played with. So it would be a very different dynamic from that perspective. But if he was willing to do that, I would say that would absolutely be the best of this particular bunch.

The MAVs just in no way have the assets to get something like this done, I don't think. You like that fit though? Why not? Do we think that Mitchell would be happy in a second role next to Donchage.

I think he's going to enter a state, or at least a phase of his career pretty quickly, where he's going to have to be okay with the secondary rule. Because we've seen what Donovan Mitchell as your primary offensive option looks like. And it was geared to him. It was built for him, what they were doing in Utah.

And they had unbelievable regular season success in terms of their offensive rating and stuff like that. But it just didn't hold up. And it was very reliant on him as a drive. driving kick engine and the kick part of that equation can come and go a little bit. I think he's going to have to be secondary to someone. And so if he's willing to do it to Luca, that would be a great fit for him. If he's willing to do it to, you know, ideally maybe even, you know, if there's a like a kind

of a hybrid three four kind of player, you know, I mean, like like, like, you know, a Kevin Durant type, a Janus type, like, you know, these guys are impossible to find ways to play with. But, you know, that would be, that'd be really cool just from a fit. standpoint, but I don't think Donovan Mitchell is a guy you are building your entire future around offensively at this point. I think that's just where he is. It's tough

because I think Donovan Mitchell thinks that most teams should be building around him. And he's not wrong to think that, you know, like he's close enough to it that I wouldn't blame him for saying something else was the problem in Utah. I want to try something different, but still have

like more or less the same usage and responsibility and role. but listen I think most podcasts would be better built around me you know like we all have we can all dare to dream we might not be right but you know

at least we have that confidence to put that out there you guys would not believe the machinations behind this the number of trade requests that Verrier has put in is just ridiculous but he gets rebuffed at every turn

Isaiah is just shutting him down will not trade this guy and it's becoming a little toxic what do you think about the Warriors so no no The problem there is they would have to trade Wiggins, Clay, or Draymond. But I do wonder if Mitchell is the type of, he has enough of offensive juice to where you say like, maybe some of these young guys that were crying on to backfill a lot of these rotational, like spots that were vacated by Otto Porter, etc.

Maybe we sought him instead. And all of a sudden we're rolling out Steph, Mitchell, Clay, Dray, Dremon as our big four. Weisman Summer League sensation James Wiseman That was an experience But just to clarify You're saying

I'm going to trade One of the most important players From the championship team In the NBA finals For Donovan Mitchell And that like I'm just gonna roll the dice with that That's kind of the prospect here

Who are you saying What's the most important Wiggins? I'm saying literally like I think Andrew Wiggins is more important to the Warriors than Donovan Mitchell would be to the Warriors. They have no one else who can do what he can do.

Yeah. Yeah, that's the problem. Which is, where is the defense coming from? It's a fucking wild sentence to say out loud. I'm not proud of it. But it's just the reality of kind of what that team needs. And especially in a honestly,

like, you know, this is kind of a minor move in the grand scheme of things. But like losing Gary Payton the second, they need on ball designated defenders more than ever. And as we've been talking about for the last weeks and months, and as was being kind of chuckled about throughout Summer League by lots of people that I talked to, to be honest with you, Andrew Wiggins having the realization that he should probably rebound

is just a monumental development in the NBA landscape. So I'm not bailing on Wigs now, and I'm certainly not bailing on Clay or Draymond, given what they mean to that franchise. The problem is Wiggins probably going to have another max offer waiting for him after this, right? If not this offseason via an extension. Pony up, Joe.

Oh, God, it's brutal. I mean, I think the problem is a lot of these guys that are making big money on the Warriors, there are future concerns here? Like, are we sure that Clay Thompson is going to be the same clay or even a facsimile of the clay that we saw, like, the good clay that we saw in the finals? Is Draymond, like, on his last leg? Should we get ahead of that as opposed to just paying him until the wheels fall off? It's the type of cutthroat move that the Warriors haven't made, especially to like members of

their core that have been with them for that long. So I doubt that they're going to do it now. But like, I don't know. I mean, that's also, if Joe Lakey has visions of decades in the future where they're still competing for the titles, that is probably the type of cutthroat move you're going to have to make. If anything, just like maybe supplanting some of these guys beforehand and not getting the clean baton passing to the Jordan Poole era that they probably think they're going to have. Well, and in contrast, the Warriors have something that almost none of these other teams we've been talking about have, which are really attractive young players.

prospects that I think have a lot of value in the league. I'm not really talking about James Wiseman, although he may be in that conversation, but I think there are a lot of Cumminga fans out there, not as a guy who is super impactful on winning right now in a bigger role, but two and three years down the line, what can he be? Moses Moody, that guy looks like a long-term NBA starter.

He has that kind of profile. And so you're getting something in the door in these kinds of trade discussions that you're not getting elsewhere, that you're not getting from, you know, I guess like the Blazers are probably the best counterpoint in terms of like, what are you really getting back from Portland in a deal like that?

But I just don't see it in any capacity. I don't want to trade the high-end guys on the roster. I don't even want to trade the young guys on the roster for Donovan Mitchell. I'm going to try for the baton pass, and it might be clumsy and we might drop it, but we're going to see if we can make it up on the backclaps. I have a take brewing that I wonder

how many of these guys are actually as good as people assume. Ooh. I'm not sure I believe in it yet. yet. Your workshop in here. Yeah, like, we're already kind of penciling in Moses Moody for being the next Clay Thompson. No, no. Like, there's a lot of like Jordan Pool next step buzz. It got way out of hand. Like, can we see this guy start for an entire season? Like, they're probably going to pay him max money. I guess you do it, if only to retain the asset. But like, I don't know, man. I'm not totally like sure on a lot of these guys. If anyone, I like Cominga the most. And I

I think Wiseman probably is someone that they need the most. So if he is going to dominate like he did the Summer League scene, at least for like that one game. For four minutes, if we're being honest. Well, very impactful four minutes. Those are the guys I actually think might pop a little bit more. But I'm a little bit more mixed on Poole and Moody. I actually don't have an educated opinion on you.

I just don't think we've seen enough. I think that's totally fair. And I respect that you're trying to, you know, workshop this thing out loud. I respect that you're trying to, you know, to really see if these. opinions are watertight. You know, put them out in the world, see what comes back. Right.

I don't want to be on any Golden State Warriors podcast, Vary or colon, Moses Moody is a bum, at least just yet. Do aggregate Justin Verrier. All right. So Sixers really tough. They would have to probably send out Tobias Harris. It's probably a negative value contract at this point. But they do have a succession plan already in the house with PJ Tucker right there.

So that would work. The Sun's a team that clearly doesn't value the NBA drafts. I think that might work. Like where's the DeAndre Aitin signed and trade to Utah? I mean, I think if they wanted him, it would have been done in some capacity or another, probably already. You know, if they, like, and I, I like DeAndre Aden. Personally, I would be trying to sign and trade for DeAndre Aden for something or get him to an offer sheet. It's getting tougher and tougher on that front.

But as much as I would like to see Devin Booker and Donovan Mitchell try to coexist. and I say that more from a personality standpoint than from a basketball standpoint, I don't think anyone involved should want that. Okay. So which of these teams now? We talked about the Knicks, the Heat, the Blazers, the Wizards, Celtics Raptors, and these dark horses. Which of these is your favorite?

I think it's the heat. Yeah, I agree. The heat just makes too much sense. The heat make a lot of sense. And honestly, as we've been talking through all these, I do kind of like some contours of the Raptors possibility, but I think the Knicks are probably actually my second choice. It's not a super clean fit.

It's not absolutely perfect. But there's just enough to like there for a team that needs to get better and is trying to get better. That I think they're a little bit better set up to absorb Adonovan Mitchell right now than some of these other teams are. So I think the Knicks might actually be my second choice. I don't hate the Celtics possibility. It's just not going to happen though. But if we're ranking on how we like it, I guess that's fine.

You know, I want you to have your own individual tastes. You know, I don't want, I don't want me or the rest of the world to skew you. I want you to have your prize darlings. Yeah. I just, I'm not 100% convinced that the Celtics don't need an upgrade. Like, they're a really good team. They can win the finals next year. That's great.

But I feel more confident in them if they have Donovan Mitchell in that spot than I do if they have Marcus Smart. You know, they have a market smart. You know, they have a lot of these veteran defenders and whatever. I think they can afford a little juice in there offensively. I just like how you said, you know, they could win the championship next season. That's great, as if you were giving them like a little pat on the head. It's all increasing odds, you know? I'm Gerald Mori here.

I'm just trying to up my percentages. All right. Shall we flip to a mailbag now? I think we should. Okay. Are you ready? I mean, this is your first here. I'm a little nervous, you know?

Yeah. Let's give the people what they want. want. Well, you're going to get a lot of thunder takes here because, all right, our first question from up in my tree on Twitter. Actually, this is a two-hander because two people ask kind of the same question. Do you think any of the bottom teams were expected to tank for Wembe, I assume he means Victor Webbenyama, Detroit, Oklahoma City, Magic, Houston, etc., are actually going to

ruin their chances by being too good too soon. and then Boyan 33 also asks, are we too quick to label the magic and thunder future contenders considering the drastic rise in player movement and anything that can happen between now and say 2027? Boyon, you sweet turtle dove, my friend, the idea of the thunder being too good too soon. I guess is people getting a little high off of the Summer League vibes?

Can I blow your mind? Oh, no. I think they might be too good too soon. Oof. The Thunder or the magic? Let me rephrase that. The Thunder. I don't think too soon is a problem,

at least as much for me as other people. Like I get the Victor Webin Yama hype. I want to dig more into that and figure out what his whole deal is, to be honest with you. But I think they're going to be pretty good, I think is my large point. And a lot of that is, She has played 91 games over the last two,

seasons. And I think there's been a little bit of an out of sight, out of mind thing with him and a lot of NBA fans. Him playing a full season combined with a young roster that's still growing into itself, that might be enough. And especially if Chet is a good rookie. And we don't know if he's going to be in that position or not yet. We need to just kind of see how he stacks up. But I wouldn't be shocked up to look, you know, look up at the standings come January 1st, come the All-Star break, come kind of like that stage of the season and see like a 500 Thunder team. That would not be a shocking revelation to me. 500.

I don't know, man. They're playing 17-year-olds at every position. So the Thunder have been better than they should have been, what, the past two years? And they've really had to lean on the tankometer

in order to bottom out here, especially two years. That's what I'm saying, though. I think the numbers have been juiced a little bit by Shea's absence specifically in a way that, like, we're not just looking at the standings and saying, okay, they're roughly that good

again plus two or three wins. Like they are a much better team than they were by record, especially last season. Yeah, but one of my favorite like axioms in life that definitely applies to the NBA is that young people are by and large useless. Oh, come on. Like, I say this every year right before the draft, most of the rookie class is not going to have positive value. They are way too young.

And especially positive value on a. good team. Like, if you go back through every rookie, like the Scotty Barnes's of the world, like a rookie who is like a plus in whatever advanced metric you want to throw out there on a good team is very, very rare. And so the idea of like getting like NBA ready talent is kind of a fallacy. It's like only a scant few sort of players. I don't think Chet Holmgren and Usman Jang and all these other guys who are like 20 years old. and like spending their weekends, like doing SoundCloud wraps, are going to, like, contribute to a lot of winning basketball is the fear.

I can actually see your beard getting grayer as you go through this take. And also for the record, are young people even on SoundCloud? I feel like that's probably not. I think you just dated yourself there. Which is sad. Yeah, it's all on TikTok now. The counterpoint is this is not about rookies. This is about Lou Dort.

This is about the new and improved Josh Giddy. This is about Shea. This is about Trey Mann who showed some... Like, I think there's enough guys on that roster who showed some stuff. Ray Man. Get out of here. Trey Man's an NBA player. Good NBA player. Great. Yeah, great. Yes. I would hope so.

All right. Well, that's a good segue here because our next questions have to deal with a thunder potentially dealing from their rock solid superstar core here. A guy who was just a shark emoji, but is at MVP newbie asks. from what we've seen from Gidey as a primary primary ball handle I don't hold on

I gotta stop for you can't even make it through the question these guys watched two games of Utah Summer League now in Vegas

and all of a sudden Josh Giddy is the next Chris Paul all right let me just finish let shark emoji get his question off all right

from what we've seen from Giddy as a primary ball handler in this little sample size do you think okay C should entertain trade SGA for a hall of picks,

focus on building around Chet and Giddy. Bull Walton also asked, should the Thunder get in the Aiton hunt, maybe dangling SGA, Aiton would be the big Chet needs so he could stay in B, yada, yada, yada. Giddy would get the keys to the office. You just can't take it.

You can't, you can't take. I fucking love Summer League, man. This is like the Super Bowl for the Thunder. We're not going to hear from them from like five to six months from now. So yeah, get these giddy takes in.

It's actually kind of funny that this question came in. In part because while I was out in Vegas, I was talking to someone about the Thunder, and I'm kind of laying out the synergy, why I love the synergy of Shay and Giddy and Chet as your court guys. Like, I think they fit together

in a way that makes total sense, doing enough of the stuff that the others don't do. I'm really liking the shape of that. Now, I'm laying out that case. I'm making my case, not unlike the case I made to you a second ago and then you just laughed at. but the response I got from this person was

they really pulled the handbrake on the bandwagon I was trying to build and what they said was they would not be shocked if Shea was traded in the next year or so and to be totally honest this rocked me a little bit I was not really even entertaining the possibility of Shea as a trade candidate I assumed like this is a really good 24 year old player

why would the Thunder be in a position to trade him and that's kind of where I am I'm floored by that possibility I'm certainly floored. Look, I really like Josh Giddy. Josh Giddy is not currently a primary ball handler, especially compared to Shea, who for all's limitations as a playmaker,

and you may see him as more of a combo guard than a pure point guard, is one of the most successful and frequent drivers in the league. Like, he is getting to the rim in a way that a Josh Giddy is not. But it was interesting. You know, I became kind of obsessed with this question, to be honest with you,

once this person mentioned the Shea trade possibility to me, started asking everyone I found about it, about like, could they see this happen? Is this realistic? Would you do it? What do you feel about it? And you get a wide range of responses on Shay and Giddy. You get some people obviously fever dreaming about Chet and Victor Webbenyama playing together.

I don't know about that personally. That feels a little redundant to me. Maybe Victor is so great. It doesn't matter. I don't know enough about him as a prospect yet. But I will say after processing all of it, I find myself pretty skeptical of the idea of Shay getting traded in the near future or the idea that he should get traded in the future, largely on the basis

that he's pretty freaking good. And I think we, I think this season I feel like is going to be a little bit of a reckoning in that capacity. I mean, where are you on Shay these days? Well, I think the question is, does he fit their timeline at this point? He's 24.

And I'm curious. I know, but like, he's already at what, like, like, year five, though, in the NBA. He is at a point, like, he already went through the trials and tribulations of a young player. Like, he learned under Chris Paul. Like, he's probably ready to be unleashed.

And as you mentioned, like, if he does start to pop, like, the first half of the season, he's an All-Star on the fringes of All-Star. Like, do they shut him down? And does that become a problem for him personally? Does he not want to do that? Does that screw up your finely manicured culture that Presti has taken so much time to build? It sounds ridiculous just because it seems like the thunder are verging on Ponzi scheme at this point if they're trading Shea for a bunch of picks. But on the other hand, like, can you

now leverage the Donovan Mitchell market and the KD market and be like, hey, come get Shea? He's actually younger than Donovan Mitchell. And he probably fits every team in the NBA in a way that Donovan Mitchell doesn't. I don't know if I would do it because I don't think the Thunder need more picks, but I think it's an interesting discussion to have. I think it, you know, obviously this conversation hinges a lot on what you think of Chet. whether you think Giddy can be like an, is he going to be a really good player? Is he going to be an okay player?

Is he going to be an all-star level player? That might embolden you if you're on the higher end of that spectrum to trade someone like Shay, but I don't get it. I really don't. I think he's going to, I think he is already very good to the point that, like you're saying,

if he's ready to be unleashed, if he's that kind of player, I think the Thunder are going to be a good team. And one hypothetical that someone brought out to me as I was kind of running Shay by people, if you took last season's Grizzlies team and you put Shea in for Jha Oh

How different is that team? That's a great question I mean there are times Especially during the regular season where Jha was just one of the best players in the NBA He has a level of transcendence It makes more sense, yeah He has a level of transcendence that Shea doesn't

Just in terms of the things he can do athletically, obviously Even some of the reads he makes I think are a little bit further along than where Shea is but I think what this person was getting at and where I'm kind of coming closer to is those guys are not as far away from each other as, you know, the MVP ballot conversation last February may have led you to believe.

Yeah. That's tough. So what you're saying is you don't trade that type of player. If you're not going to shade a John Morant, you don't trade a Shea. No. I mean, I've already made my case that I think the Thunder might actually be kind of good.

And if not this season, I think they certainly have a case to be, quite good next season. Sorry, the following season, but maybe I'm alone. Maybe it's just going to be me on Thunder Island. No, I mean, I laugh mostly at the idea that Josh Giddy

widely panned as a draft pick. That's really the rich part of it, yeah. Yeah, is now the future of the franchise. I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with you that maybe they already have their core, right? Maybe like the team is just going to be SGA,

Dort, Giddy, Chet, And fill in between with all those other. And like the one thing that the extra draft picks in the future actually buy you is the opportunity to be good and borrow someone else's future. Like if the clippers end up being bad, which doesn't seem like the case considering they're just going to pay their way to success for the foreseeable future, like actually count on those picks to feed what you've already gotten. I guess the question is, is Shea, is Chet, the blue chip number one guy that you've kind of been building this all around. he's not. And if you even have a hesitation, if we're saying that Shea isn't John Morant, that he's maybe just like a cut below, I think you actually still need to be vying for that guy, because that's what this is all about. And I think you actually introduce a lot of questions

about what you've been doing and whether or not this is actually just the process redux if you don't get that guy, because the process at the very least ended up with Embed. And I don't know if they haven't Embed yet. I think that's a fair concern. But I do like what you singled out there in terms of what their draft capital gets them. I mean, they really are in the opposite position of teams like the Nets who are so incentivized to keep trying to win now. But in a weird way, the Thunder are incentivized to win now too. Like, they really do have so much draft capital that I think, one, they could trade,

they could consolidate a lot of their picks and trade for a pretty high value prospect at some point down the line. Or if it comes down to it, you know, if you get two or three years into this thing, I think all of these guys are still going to be young enough. that you could entertain those options then. But for the near to medium future, I'm running out this core. I'm seeing how this is going to go.

And maybe you are kind of okay to middling enough any way that you end up with a decent player in the draft. Maybe, I mean, maybe one of these guys does get hurt and this is not a particularly deep team at present. That would obviously be devastating to their chances if they're trying to win games. I kind of like what they're building, though. And I think maybe I'm higher on them and on that than most.

but I'm certainly not looking to trade Shea and I really like the way he and Giddy can fit so yeah I'm not I'm not given the keys to my offense to Josh Giddy just yet that's that's real summer league pilled kind of thinking sure it's an interesting conversation I think it leads nicely into this next question from death and strawberry

at Silver Tooth Baby saying Twitter names out loud is really makes you old life on the line, which is more likely to happen the next five years. Sacramento makes the playoffs or either Orlando or Houston make the second round. It's probably a good chance to talk about Orlando and Houston, the two other good teams that I think were mentioned before in addition to Detroit. Detroit has way too many young players, so I don't see them being good anytime soon.

Anyway, although I do really like their future. Same thing with Orlando and Houston for me. Again, I like their futures. Their presence aren't that great. I'm going to say Sacramento makes the playoffs. Are you saying that for the premise of this question or for this season? Yeah. The premise of the question is in the next five years,

Sacramento makes the playoffs or Orlando or Houston makes the second round. One, because it's the easier hurdle. Yeah. You have to be pretty good, especially how top heavy or a lot of these conferences are right now to make it to the second round. But I also think that Sacramento has probably the most motivated. to get to the playoffs. And I'm actually like quietly in love with their team.

Like their team is going to be one of the most fun last teams in recent memory. I mean, I think they could be a play in team as soon as this season. So just, you know, from the sheer probability of getting the attempt to try it immediately, I think it's got to be Sacramento. You know, the second round is a actually quite a, quite a tough bar to clear. And if you think it's not, I mean, ask like the Minnesota Timberwolves the last time they made it out of the first round of the playoffs.

That's, it's tough. It's tough for a lot of these groups. So I'm, I am relatively high on some of what's going on in Orlando and Houston in various capacities, but second round is tough. Which team are you higher on, though? Do you like what Orlando has or Houston? I would say Houston by far. By far. Interesting.

Yeah, I think you got to clean it up a little bit. And by clean it up, I mean mostly like, I'm just not a big Kevin Porter Jr. person. So I think you need to find some kind of resolution there. but in terms of their actual core guys and we'll have to see if like if Shangoon can actually fit into that or not but man there's just a lot to work with their again in ways that are complimentary

in ways that's like oh this like hyperathletic guard plus a spacing big you know and this like rangy guard who's like still figuring out how to defend oh and he now has kind of a you know a rim protector to help like cover for what he can't do I like that mix I like that mix more than than Orlando which to me is still

still a little bit more muddled. But you saw presumably Paulo and Jabari up close. Yes. And you're still going with Houston. I mean, Palo is super impressive. I'm high on Palo. It's just like what is the roster

around him that's going to make his skill set make sense and how long is it going to take you to get there? I would probably take the better talent at this point. If we're saying Paulo is the best player between those two teams, are we? I would probably, you think Jalen Green

is better than Paulo. He might. He's going to be. He might be. Really? Really? I don't know. Like, he had a really impressive back half of last season.

We'll see if that's smoke and mirrors or not. But I'm not, I'm not ruling it out that he could be. I saw some Apollo just from afar and a giant playmaker who can shoot. He's so huge. Literally everything you could want in a player. And it's not like they're like completely bereft of guys around him. No.

They do have some players. Yeah. The Wagner bros around him. Suggs, obviously, first round pick last year. We'll see if he could bounce back from a mediocre rookie season. Like, they've got guys. Mark L. Fultz to run the show. He's still probably like 21.

Lord knows. Honestly, probably true. Yeah. All right. Next question from George Castillo. What is the biggest L you've taken after a summer league performance in parentheses who had you hyped in summer league only to disappoint? Great question.

Yeah, I was trying to think of why. I was trying to find a real deep cut for this. Do you have an answer for this? So as I mentioned before, I spent the entire run at Summer League, I think two years in a row. Jesus Christ. Which means I saw a lot of fucking Summer League basketball, which explains a lot about like the current trauma in my life. No, but like Josh Selby, former Summer League MVP tearing it up. I thought he would at least like be an NBA player.

I think the classic example, though, one near and dear to both of our heart. hearts, I believe, is Anthony Randolph. Oh, I mean, so tantalizing. How could you not? The ultimate Summer League experience. He would probably, what did he put up one game? It was like 30 or 40 or something like that. He had some insane.

And was, was Bellanelli the same summer league team? Was it Bellanelli and Rand? Oh my God. I mean, that's got to go up in the Summer League Hall of Fame. Bellanelli famously, I think, had a 50 point game in the Summer League. If he was playing at the same time as Randolph, look, they don't make them like that anymore. You know,

they don't make summer league rosters like that. If they had the rings back then, those guys would be like, like the Tom Brady photo where he has just like six of them on one hand.

Yeah. That would be Anthony Randolph right now. It would be a dynasty. They would be coming back playing into your six and seven just to keep the street going. Glenn Rice, Jr., another one.

Really? He got you? Summer League MVP? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, there are some good ones. Jeremy Lynn was a, stand out in Summerlee, but that ended up working out.

Anthony Randolph, I think, is the ultimate answer here. I think that's the definitive answer. All right. Next question. What's the best case is from Chris Manning? What's the best case for Colin Sexton, considering he's in free agency purgatory? And now we should mention there's some slight scuttle butt around the jazz that there could be a Colin Sexton from Mike Conley's sign-in trade, which doesn't make any sense in my mind, but that was a report out there today.

But I guess the question is, do you see a, team out there that actually needs Colin Sexton at this point? I think the Cavs do, to be honest with you. I kind of like what he can still give them. And to that point, and this was kind of something that came up quite a bit at Summer League, honestly, was the fascination around Sexton in his situation. There just aren't many teams with a lot of cab space left, certainly with the kind of range of offers that he wants.

I see this as a qualifying offer resolution. That's what it feels like to me. It feels like, come back, you know, have a healthy, season, play on the qualifying offer, play for a winning team, go on the market again next year and see if you can get the $20 to $25 million per year offer you were looking for initially. Because that's not there right now for him. And I think justifiably so. Like I think he saw as a lot to prove as a player.

And I mean, it was kind of, it was really unfortunate the way that he had to make his exit from a Cavs team where he was really kind of hitting his stride in a different capacity and a different role early last season. So I want to see him get another crack at that. I think that could actually be a pretty good outcome in terms of basketball, if obviously not financially what he's looking for. Yeah, there don't seem to be a lot of suitors left on the board here because you saw teams like the magic that have cap space,

prioritize signing flexible contracts. Like they signed a bunch of guys with non-guaranteed second year so they can retain or preserve their cap space that way. I just don't see anybody left on the board who really needs him. The Pacers are the one team up there lurking, but they seem heavily involved in the DeAndre Eaton's steep stakes. We'll see what happens there. And if they miss out on Aiton, I don't know if they really need Sexton,

especially considering how much they've invested in their backcourt over the past few years. Matherin seems to be putting up like 25 points every time I look up. I would, I assume he's going to end up back in Cleveland, probably on the qualifying offer, as Rob mentions, maybe even just on a longer-term deal. Although this is like what we encountered when Lori Markenden, ended up in Cleveland, right? He was just looming out there for a while and they figured out of sign and trade.

What do you think about the idea of Sexton as a by-low candidate in Dallas as something of the Donovan Mitchell, light, light, like off-guard, scorer who can close games, maybe not start next to Luca Donchins. That way you inject some, like, young talent into a team that might struggle to get that in the future.

I don't mind it at all. And I like him as, in terms of his scoring explosive, I like him more than Dinwiddie. I like him more than some of the other, even honestly more than Tim Hardaway Jr., who I think is streaky to the point of counter-productivity in a lot of ways.

So, yeah, I think that could be a worthy gamble for them, but just going to depend on what it would take to get him there. Okay. A couple more here to close us out. This is from Betsy Cash Money, great name. Is Kat actually that good? Why am I the only one

bothered by? And she has two bold points here. His lack of improvement on defense after eight years in the league, the amount of time he spends standing totally stationary. I like standing stationary, you know? Right. Yeah. I do think, you know, the pronounced strengths and weaknesses with Kat lend him pretty easily to this line of conversation. Like, he is a guy who can be quite agitating to watch.

I mean, what is your experience with Kat? Like, when you're, when you're tuning in, does he do things that irk you or are you mostly into that experience? I feel like you're right that he's an easy player to beat up on, especially, I think more because of his personality than anything else. Like, yeah, he is pretty maddening and you wonder like, why can't he be helpful defensively? Although, like, the wolves were pretty good defensively last season despite like his flaws. And I think that's something to really price in here. Yeah, it should definitely be noted that I do think he's actually gotten a little bit better defensively over these past two years.

He's not great. He's not a defensive anchor by any means. Minnesota still had to do a lot to try to cover for the fact that he wasn't a defensive anchor last season in terms of the aggressiveness of some of their schemes. So all of that is is not necessarily what you want from your superstar player. Like the fact that so much of what makes your team good and also so much of what limits your team is coming from the same person, that's tough. But I still think he was an all-MBA guy last season. I still think his offense is that valuable. And although, you know, I know Kat has been on the I'm the best.

shooting big man and NBA history train. I'm going to respectfully pump the brakes on that. Who's one, then? Come on. Chad? Come on now. Come on now. Come on now.

The championship winning best shooting big man in history is right there. That is Dirk's title to lose until Kat does something of actual substance. I'm sorry. You carry a team to elite offense for basically your entire career. I think you're grandfathered into that title. but Rob put on a cowboy hat as he was stating that by the way. I still think cat is really good and certainly by any other metric, you know, maybe the second best shooting, Big Man in NBA history.

And in a way that he's so good from the perimeter that he sometimes talks himself out of going into the post when he should, but he's also so good from the perimeter that you can trade for Rudy Gober and it kind of makes sense. So that's the problem I think you're hitting on there. I think he gets discounted because he's a little bit more of a finesse player, and I still think there's like a bias toward that. But on the other hand, I do think he buys into that a little more than he should,

and he floats on the perimeter a little bit more than he, like he's this massive man. He should probably use that to his advantage a little bit more. Yeah, I think there's a sweet spot to be found sometime in Kat's future where he is able to flex the versatility in his game, the stretch in his game. And I think what we saw some in the playoffs in the last season two was just like attacking Biggs off the door.

dribble from the three point line when they have to close so hard against him. He's become so good at that. There's a nice sweet spot between doing those things, but also mixing it up more on the offensive glass. You know, bullying switches and mismatches a little bit more, especially because the more and more dangerous than Anthony Edwards becomes, the more and more desperate teams are going to get in the pick and roll. The more they're going to try to switch and double and do other things against him, that's

where I think Kat can ultimately find a pretty comfortable spot for himself and could maybe become the player we've all been hoping that he could someday be. Yeah, I think Cat also has a little Anthony Davisitis, which is something we were talking about a little bit with Mitchell. He's a one that should probably be a two. I think he should be your most talented player. I don't think he should be the leader of your franchise. And like, I think it would have behooved him in an alternate reality to be paired with a veteran guard in the way that Anthony Davis was paired with LeBron. So that personality type takes center stage where you could really just focus on being. incredible at what you do. And that's not even a ding.

Like I feel like, no, it's not. We reduce this to the, like, the whole Batman Robin. Sorry, we do not reduce it to the Batman Robin thing. Media brethren do. And it's, it's ridiculous.

Like, if you're the number two player on a really good team, you're a freaking good player, period. There's not as much glamour in it. Like, you're not going to get the highest end endorsement deals. You're not going to get the same level of acclaim. But, man, like, you have to be amazing to be. amazing to be the number two player on a championship team. There's no shame in that at all,

or a high achieving playoff team. I think that's kind of what the wolves are banking on now, is can Towns become that kind of player, or I guess can Rudy be that kind of player for us, if you believe in his kind of playoff viability in that way. I don't think they're wrong to do it. I think that Towns is really good. And ultimately,

I think that we're going to see something over these next couple years from him, not an all-out transformation, but certainly some progress to get him closer to the point where, you know, Betsy, maybe you don't feel quite this way in the near future. I think Kat's going to win you over. I will say, though, that I do think while him, like, his best position being number two, like isn't a flaw per se, I do, it gets you into trouble into these situations where you have to put a lot of different pieces around him and overpay for a guy like a Gobert to come in

and complete the picture, whereas with other teams, like, you know, you don't really need much more than a LeBron James or like a Chris Paul and his prime, even like a James Hardin making do with like the Ryan Anderson's and the Chandler Parsons of the world for a little bit. You know, like you can build around that a lot easier than you can saying like actually we need a number one who's like kind of a take the game by the throat sort of player to go with this guy. That's all win.

I think that makes total sense. Do we want to hit one more question? Yeah, let's do one more. Should we do one from Keith Fujimoto? I think we have to do one from Keith. Yeah. Of Ringer MBA, social fame at Oakley and Allen. He asked, what team or player should Netflix and Adam Sandler make a movie about next?

Have you seen Hustle? Have you seen Hustle yet? I have. It's quite good. I haven't yet. So I need to. So I will say, take my frame of reference from a game of salt. What am I saying?

Are these words with a grain of salt, please. I need to watch it. But just from a conceptual standpoint, I want the Scotty Barnes movie. And really what I want... Look, we got the Wancho Hernang Gomez movie. You're going to begrudge me a Scotty Barnes movie? I guess that's fair.

This is my pitch. I think he's, one, a really charming guy who can carry a movie. Two, I think he's a really good basketball player who kind of has like the Tom Hanks in big vibe sometimes, like just a literal giant child. And I want that. fish out of water experience against all of these very serious NBA backdrop. But really what I'm setting up, I just want to reverse engineer a scene where Sandler is in a

room full of scouts money ball style. And they're arguing over whether Scotty Barnes gives too many hugs. That's the scene that I want. That's all I want. And we'll make the whole movie to get there. Okay. That's a pretty good one. You didn't sound sincere about that.

I guess I don't know as much about Scotty Barnes as per se. personality is it seems like a lot of other people do. He's like, we need to change that. We need to get you on the Scotty train. Okay. Is he like Dwight level where he's like, his favorite candies in the clubhouse? I would say with less phoniness, you know,

like he comes by it. He comes by it earnestly, you know? For now, that's what we were saying about Dwight. You really hate that you really hate all the kids, you know? I don't like kids. So a couple contenders for this one. I think the easy one is to say like a Poku Chet buddy comedy,

like the new dumb and dumber. Rude. I kind of want the behind the scenes look at Luca Dantrish's life because we really don't know anything about this guy. And I think it's like a calculated attempt to not give things to the media. At this point he has to be because like he would have already done like a in-depth ESPN profile or like an athletic deep dive or whatever by this point. I have no idea what's going on there,

but I guarantee this guy is like into some shit. Like he has like a snake pit in his house. Oh yeah. Like a tiger den. He's definitely one of these guys that's like, he has a lot of money and he's buying a lot of weird shit. And I want to know more about that. I think that's a good move.

Like give him the Nick Cage playing a fictionalized version of Nick Cage. Like let's get Luca playing a totally outlandish version of himself with the aforementioned snake pit. I'm into that. I like where this is going. All right. So we'll be attached as producers. Isaiah Blakely will be the executive producer. But all right, let's wrap it there then for Robin, for myself and for Waz, somewhere out there in Ether, hopefully still alive. Come back to us, Wise.

We'll see you next time. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production.