The Ringer NBA Show - Don’t Win for Doncic, the Jaren Jackson Jr. Debate, and the Lakers' Anti-tank | Draft Class (Ep. 208)

Episode Date: February 9, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks explain the importance of the NBA draft (0:07), identify their current top prospects (3:23), consider the possibility of second-tier prospects jumping up to the no. 1 pick conversation (8:31), and evaluate the potential for Michigan State’s Jaren Jackson Jr. (10:14). Then they discuss the effects of Thursday's NBA trade deadline on the upcoming draft (19:43) and receive grades for their analyses (29:10). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor, staff writer at the ringer.com. This is Draft Class, a show previewing the upcoming NBA draft and joining me on the other line is my good friend and fellow Ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. Hey, how's it going, man? You're recording from L.A. living out there now. How is life on the West Coast? It's been really cool, man. I'm loving it out here. The weather's beautiful. It's much better than snowy Massachusetts right now. I believe that. Anyhow, on this show, we're going to school, you, the listeners on everything regarding the NBA draft and all the things that interest us about it. From the lottery to the prospects, the selection night itself. But before we dive in, we got to note that we write words on the ringer.com. Yeah, check it out. We got a bunch of

great NBA content on the site, including my piece in the cow's busy deadline and Kevin's piece recapping the whole day. Speaking of which, Kevin, you broke the Isaiah Thomas trade. Pretty cool. Thanks, man. Just trying to do my job, I guess. Make sure you listen to all of our podcasts. Make sure you subscribe to all the podcasts, especially this one, the Ringer NBA show. We have shows every day of the week, including a revamped Monday heat check hosted by John Gonzalez, and we'll be bringing you draft class every Friday leading up to and through the 2018 NBA draft on June 21st. Yeah, I think we called it draft class in part because we're learning this too. Like, to me, the draft is the biggest intellectual challenge in the NBA. We all know who's running the championship,

but who's going to be the best player, who's going to be the bust, who's going to be the steel, This is stuff we're all trying to figure out. Yeah, I mean, like the draft means different things to different fans of different teams, but in all cases, the perfect pick can change a franchise. How I look at it, drafting a guy, you have his rights for nine years. You get his first contract at a bargain. You get his second contract. You decide what you pay him.

And by the time he's on his third contract, he's been in the league like nine or ten years. The draft, it's like shopping for a new car, whereas free agency, you're kind of going through the used car lot. By the time they fit the lot, they've had other drivers, maybe not as good of owners. Maybe the Kings drafted them when their car is ruined. You can get a lemon sometimes. But that sums it up, though. It really is like that. I mean, there's been so much focus on the trade deadline this week and the past couple

of weeks for that matter. And there will be looking ahead at free agency, too. But the draft is where those franchise changing guys are actually typically found. So it's important to be informed about what's happening today in the league and what happened in the past. but you also have to have a sense for what's to come. That's what draft class is for. But here's the thing about draft class. We are all students here.

There's always more to learn about this draft than the league as a whole. And we're all trying to figure out this puzzle and we're trying to do it together. So we want you to be as much of part of this discussion as us. So use hashtag draft class on Twitter, Instagram, whatever social media platform you like to share your thoughts with us.

I mean, I'm a liberal arts major, so I'm not really qualified to teach anything. That's why we've made our producer, Isaac Lee, the professor, are in the room for this podcast. Well, actually, I'm the least qualified out of everyone because I'm a music major, but I've been told someone has to be. So I guess I'll be handing out grades

on a completely arbitrary and capricious rubric. Okay, it's time for class, guys. All right, so we're recording this on Friday, February 9th, and so it's kind of a draft 101 intro to the draft class. Let's set a baseline for the top of this draft and briefly outline our current top prospects because then in late June, when the draft comes around, discuss what changed and why it did.

I think that's probably one of the most interesting things is the evolution of a draft board. So I'm curious, Charks, on your personal board at this point, do you have a clear cut, no doubt, number one prospect? Yeah, to me, it's got to be Luca Danchich. He's an 18-year-old Slovenian playing at Real Madrid. And if you haven't been following the draft, you'll be hearing a lot more about him in the next four or five months.

So he's been on radar screens for like three or four years now. And he really kind of took the next step this summer when he helped Gorin Drogich leads Slovenia to the Eurobasket championships. So this guy is like 17, 18 years old. He's averaging 16 points, five boards, and four assists on 47% shooting. He's the best player on Real Madrid, one of the best teams in the world outside of the NBA. We've pretty much never seen a guy do this at this high level at his age. I mean, you mentioned his numbers and those might not really stand out the people, but I think

it's important to understand the context that there's never been a prospect like Donchurch. at his age, playing at his level. The league he's playing in is the second best league in the world, right? It's not quite the NBA, but it's better than college basketball. So where we're seeing other players struggle with inconsistency, Donchurch is consistently producing in the best league in the world. And that's unusual. There's never been a guy like him.

I've heard some conversations about, you know, with analytics guys where he's essentially broken their models because there's nobody to compare him to in the past from overseas. Yeah, the one guy when I watch him, Like, I'm going to go straight for Bill Simmons heresy here. I'm going to drop the Larry Bird comparison. If my bird was 18 in Slovenian, what would he be doing right now, right? Larry Bird, man.

You're going that far already. Well, I mean, that's the ceiling. Like, that's, like, what could be out there. And I think, like, if Birds are ceiling, probably, like, Hito Turkle lose the floor. And, like, if Hito Turkle lose your worst case scenario, that's a really fine basketball player. What is it that you see in him that could make him a Larry Bird? So let's say someone's Googling Luca Dantrich right now while. they're listening.

They're seeing he's shooting 32.8% from three. They're seeing quote unquote only 16 points per game. So if that is his highest possible outcome, what is the path for him to get there, John? Well, I think for first, as you were saying, look at the context, you have to look at it as like per 36 minutes because he's only playing like 23 right now in Europe.

They play longer rotations. They don't really give guys 35 minutes a game. But if you go by per 36, he's at 23.8 rebound 7 to 6. and he's taken like eight or nine threes a game, a lot of them off the dribble. He's the guy for Real Madrid. He's a six, eight point forward

who can make every pass in the book, who can shoot all over the floor. And I think, I'll say, I'll give it the old, he's deceptively athletic. Let's say, let's put it that way. I think he's actually even just a good athlete for that matter. I've read a lot about how, you know, there's questions about his defense, how, you know,

he's not a great athlete. But look, he's strong. Strength matters in the NBA. he's growing into a man's body when he's only 18 years old. I think that matters. He's already in good shape for his age. And we're talking about a guy that he's played overseas his entire life. And when he does get over to the NBA, he's going to have NBA-level athletic training.

Last summer he worked with P3 for a short amount of time. And I don't think it's a coincidence that he did kind of make a little mini leap athletically this past season. So you get him that training full-time in the NBA. I don't think there's any question that he can improve some of his easily improvable weaknesses. If it is athleticism finishing around the rim, I think he has the creativity and the touch to improve in that way. Defensively, I think he's very smart on that end of the floor and he's strong. So I think he can hold his own there. And then really, the big question for what determines his upside, you mentioned Larry Bird, you mentioned Hito Turkleu, whatever comp you want to throw out there.

It's the shooting. And early in the season, we saw flashes. Right now, Donchitz is kind of on a cold streak shooting the ball. But early in the air, he was just lights out from three, both off to dribble and off the catch. He's shown flashes of becoming a guy who not only can playmake for you, his passing vision is really wonderful. He's a good scorer from each level, but his ability to shoot off the dribble from really anywhere on the court. And as you know, John, that's probably one of the most important traits for star level players in today's league. Yeah, I mean, basically, you can put him in the pick and roll right now.

You give John just the keys to your offense. You put three shoes around him in a big man. You come off a screen. He can shoot it. He can put it on the floor. He can read the defense. He's ready to play in the NBA tomorrow. I'd be comfortable giving him the keys to my offense.

I remember in like the Eurobaskets, there were a couple times like Porzingis was switched on him. And he went right around him. Yeah. If he's not an A plus athlete, he's a solid B, B plus athlete. He's athletic enough to where the rest of his gifts, I think, will be able to translate. I'm almost surprised in a way that we both agree that he's on his own tier. I've seen a lot of conversation I'm out there about,

about other guys who could out leap him for that number one spot in the draft. So I'm wondering, John, who are the guys that have a chance to overcome Donchitz's number one on your ranking? Because I have a couple. I have four or five. How many do you have on your list? I would say my tier two is probably about seven or eight guys. Wow. The difference between like two and eight is really small.

I think in that two of eight, to me, the one guy who could become the guy is DeAndre Aiton at Arizona. He has all the physical tools. I'm with you on Aiton, John. I think his two-way potential. There's questions maybe about his defensive intensity, his effort, but I think he's shown enough flashes this year, where for me, of my second-tier prospects, he's probably the guy that separates himself a little bit from the others.

And those other guys, for me, are pretty much the same as they were before the season. There's Mo Bamba, a long-limbed big man from Texas. I wrote about him recently on the ringer. There's Marvin Bagley, a versatile big man from Duke who can shoot some threes, versatile on defense. There's Michael Porter from Missouri, who hasn't played this season. with a back injury, but he could be back. And then the guy, I think a lot of people know, is Trey Young, a guard from Oklahoma.

He's lit college on fire this season, plays like the college version of Steph Curry. So those are my four guys from before the season. Then Trey Young has been added in there. So I have five guys in my second tier right now. Are there any others that you have, John? Yeah, I'm going to throw in Jaron Jackson. I wrote about him earlier this week. Michigan State Big Man, he can stretch the floor, shoot threes, protect the rim.

Michael Bridges, pretty much your textbook, 3-and-D guy at Villanova. And then the one guy I'm not as sure about is Colin Sexton in Alabama. I think he might be able to sneak in there. He's a very athletic young point guard. So we have like 20 weeks until the draft. There's a lot of time to go. So we're going to focus specifically on those guys in the coming weeks, coming months, coming episodes.

Right now, we're going to just focus on Jaron Jackson because he's the guy, honestly, I'm a little bit surprised where you threw out a take in our NBA Slack, where you said, hot take, Jaron Jackson is the best. best big man in the draft. Then he wrote a great article detailing him. So I want to know what is it about Jaron Jackson that either makes him the best big in the draft or that makes him a second tier prospect? I'm not quite as high on him, John. I'll say, this pot is a safe place for take. So prepare yourself for many more takes over the next few months. We're going to put that out to begin with. So for me, when I look at Jaron Jackson, what really stands out to me is what he does for the

rest of your team. My ideal center these days is a guy who shoots three. protects the rim, it can switch out and guard smaller players. And I think in those three combination of skills, I would take Jackson ahead of Bomba, Bagley, or Aitle. And I can see the argument that like Aiden and Bagley are better college players because they're definitely better at getting their own shot.

But I want Biggs who stretch the floor and I want Biggs who play defense. Those are my number one and two top priorities. Okay, I'm with you on the fact that Jackson is probably an easier fit, right? I mean, is that kind of your thought there where he's a guy that you can fit into virtually any type of team because he is a big man who's versatile in defense because he is probably, I mean, he's averages more blocks per 36 minutes than Mo Bamba, who is obviously the guy touted as a next Rudy Gaubert type of player. So for you, it's more about fit in today's league with Jackson, whereas with some of the other guys like Bamba, Aiton, and Bagley, you have more questions about how they fit. Is that more about what it is?

Yeah, that's about right. To me, who your center is kind of defines your identity as a team. And I don't really want a center who struggles on defense, who can't spraise the floor, and who has had the ball thrown inside to be effective. Who is that center who struggles on defense, though? Well, for sure, Bagley. We'll get into him later. Yeah.

Our editor-in-chief, Sean Fennacy, throughout the seven-foot Michael Beasley comp, and now I can't unsee that. Whenever I see Bagley and I just see it, it's like, oh, my gosh. I mean, Aiden, too. Aiden, Aiden, to me, I worry a lot about his defense. I think one of the difficulties with ranking players is it's unknown where these guys are going to land, right? So much success has to do with situation. I mean, you and I debated last year about a guy like Jason Tatum where the conversation was mid-range shooter, right?

But he landed in a situation where they just suck that habit out of him and force them to take three-pointers. But in a different situation, perhaps he would be jacking up mid-range jumpers, you know, being a low-efficiency player, in Boston, he hasn't become that. And I understand your point with some of these other guys where if Aiton lands in a bad situation, he might never learn the right habits that he needs to defensively. If Marvin Bagley never gets the right coaching, he might always be a tick slow in his rotations. Whereas with Jaron Jackson, he's somebody who already is an incredibly smart defender. Very quick, quick twitch athleticism when it comes to moving laterally.

That's what makes him appealing. But I just don't see how he has more upside. than a guy like Aiton who could be a tremendous score who can also space the floor, who can also become versatile defensively, or Mo Bamba, who is just ridiculously long on the defensive end of the floor, and also has some interesting offensive traits as well,

or even Marvin Bagley, who I'm not quite as high on as a lot of people, but even him. The potential is clearly there for him to be an incredibly versatile defender, but he needs to learn more of the mental side of the game like Jackson. I feel like it's almost a little safe to take Jackson, whereas maybe I'm just more of a gambler. I appreciate Kevin just gently laying the ball in. You could have dunked me about the Tatum stuff.

I appreciate, you know, going off the glass, getting your two points. I'm not a hater. We all get guys wrong. Like, you had OG and Ninobe ranked fourth, and guess what? That could look pretty damn smart. Yeah, I prefer to focus on the things I miss, though. That's going to get better as a... It's true.

Didn't the both of you have Markell Fultz number one? We did. And the whole world with you guys. That's just true. We're going to talk about the mental side of the game in a future. That's a whole podcast. For sure. So that's who Jackson is today.

I think we generally agree. We just kind of value things a little bit differently. But, you know, with the draft, you also need to project ahead based on who the guy is now. So here at the wringer.com, we've somehow convinced our C.O. Jeff Chow to use our Ringer NBA budget to invest in a crystal ball with which we can look ahead to the future of the top prospects.

It's not always accurate, as you know, but sometimes it hits. And this week, we're diving into the future of Jaron Jackson out of Michigan State. Charks, you have your crystal ball there in Dallas, and because of the magic of the podcast world, I also have it here in Los Angeles. I want to know five years from now, eight years from now, however long into the future you think

it'll take for Jaron Jackson to reach his prime, what type of player will he be in his prime? I'll say first, I don't believe in divination. This is just a bit. As far as Jaron Jackson goes, I see a guy in five years. He's about the same size he is now, a little stronger.

He can switch screens. He's getting about 15, 16 points a game, 6-7-3s, 2-3 blocks. His numbers aren't as good as Aitans or Bagley's, maybe not even Bambas. But his team is an elite offensive team. His team is an elite defensive team. They can play five out on offense. They play five out on defense. And he just makes everybody else better.

I see Jackson as Channing Fry on offense and a good version of Nerlin's Noel on defense. The version we thought we all, he was good. going to be. Very Dallas of you. Like a better Serge Abaka. A better Serge Abaka. That's who he is. Okay. That's interesting. I think with Jaron Jackson, this might be almost a cop-out answer in a way, but I think with Jaron Jackson, he's going to be a good player.

I think he absolutely will be. But if a team were to draft him ahead of Aiton, Bamba, or Bagley, or even Michael Porter or Trey Young, there's a high percent chance that the team that drafts him is going to be very happy with the player that they have. but you're going to think, damn it, how did we pass on this other guy? But that's also going to depend on where that guy lands too. I mean, like we hit on a little bit earlier, as we will in future episodes, I think with Aitn Bamba and Bagley, there's bigger questions because they have higher upside.

And there's probably more reason to be disappointed with those guys because of their potential being so high. With Jackson, I just think, look, he's going to be good. He can shoot the ball despite his kind of weird mechanics. I question that maybe if he can extend that range to three. So I have some questions there, John, when it comes to his shooting range. But that's where I like, I guess, the Serge Baca comp, where he's someone who also had to extend his range over his career. I don't know, man.

I just think he's going to be a good player. But if you're taking him ahead of any of those other guys, you're going to end up being very disappointed. See, to me, like what Jackson, I think separates himself a bit. I remember it was the game against Ohio State. And he's going up against Keita Bates Job. 6-7 combo forward and shoot three off the dribble. It'll probably be a first-round pick.

And he's staying with Bates' job with the three-point line, guarding him from the 3-3 three to the rim. So I'll trade off 10% size to get like 5, 10% more quickness and speed, especially the way the league is going now. And that to me is why I would take Jackson over Bamba. That's an interesting take on Jackson Charks. We're going to break to hear from our sponsors on the other side. We're going to quickly recap the NBA trade deadline. Draft class is brought to you today by Seek. Buying tickets can be complicated and confusing, but there is a simpler way to buy with Seekekek is the smartest, easiest way to get tickets to every type of live event, whether you're catching your favorite musician on tour, shopping for the perfect gift,

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That's promo code NBA show for $30 off NBA tickets. Or just go ahead and use promo code Ringer NBA for $20 off any first-time purchase. Let's quickly recap what happened yesterday during the NBA trade deadline and its implications on the drafts. The Cavaliers completely overhauled their roster and were the only team in the league to trade a first-round pick, despite there being a lot of rumors about teams. seeking out first round picks, the Cavs were the only team that ended up doing that. Charks, you wrote an article on the ringer.com about what the Cavaliers did. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on their decision to give up the first round pick?

And for the Lakers, what did that trade change for them? Well, the Lakers, the cows were able to hold on to the Nets pick. That's the big takeaway everyone's kind of talking about today, which they should. So Cleveland remade their entire roster, but held on that lottery pick. and they only had to give up their late first. So that trade was kind of a win-win for both teams because L.A. dump salary set themselves up for next summer and got a first-round pick

while Cleveland got better players and kept their more important first-round pick. So what were your thoughts about that trade? You know, I thought about this yesterday. I like the deals for the Cavaliers, but I'm wondering, did they even need to give up their first-round pick in that deal? Like, should they have had to have given that up

to make that deal happen? Was Larry Nance and Jordan Clarkson a neff of a return when really the Lakers wanted to create cap space, that was their goal. And yet they also got a first round pick and return. Did they need to even give that up? That's a fair question. I guess it's because you have just gotten George Hill and Rodney Hood and kind of went into the buyout market to get a big man. I think a lot depends on your evaluation of Larry Nance and how much he can help his team defensively.

I think almost the more interesting aspect is, you know, like you said, they kept the Nets pick. But the fact is that it's unusual for first round picks to not be dealt. In past years, you know, we saw Cleaver. Cleveland give up a first for Channing Fry. We saw them give up a first for Kyle Corver. Saw Lou Williams get a first round pick last year. Memphis didn't even get anything for Tyreek Evans. Teams were just offering second round draft picks and they ended up just saying forget it, you know, it's not enough for a guy averaging 19 points per game. And I think that speaks to the nature of the changing landscape of the league.

The salary cap is kind of flattening out over this next couple of years. There's a market correction that's going to happen, as we saw with Lou Williams only getting $8 million dollars annually. So there's not going to be a lot of teams with cap space. And what that means is there will be a greater value in first-round draft picks because as we said at the top, that's where the best value is in the draft. I mean, there's no question. It's flipped to 180 from like even two years ago. Team, it's like, it's Scrooge McDuck when they're going to gold bar. That went way over my head. What a reference. Well, Scrooge McDuck hordes gold and he will not give up his gold for anybody. And that's how it was first round picks. Has it gone too far as what I'm curious about. Should it

team I'm giving up a first for Tyreek Evans? I don't know. He's helped them right now. I always tend to go on the side where you have to think about sustainability. And so if you're a team, let's look at, you know, who's in the back end of the first round, the Lakers got a first. Atlanta's not giving up their late first. If your golden state, you have a very, very expensive roster coming where it's important that you either hit that pick or you use it the right way. Boston's going to be expensive as well, especially once Kyrie Irvin gets his extension. so they're not a team that's going to trade it. San Antonio as well,

where there was a rumor yesterday that they might have been shopping or thinking about Danny Green and their own first round pick for Avery Bradley. I've heard that that probably was something floated from the L.A. side, more so than San Antonio actually thinking about that. So the teams in the back of the first round,

just as much as anything else, the teams that might have traded already gave him up. And Cleveland was the only one in the back of the first round that actually had any incentive to make a move because, look, they had to shake things up, But every other team, even going up into the low 20s, Milwaukee, Washington, Minnesota, Portland, what really is the incentive for those teams that give up, as you said, that piece of gold that could end up being a player that they have the right suit for the next eight or nine years?

I just don't think the incentive was there this season. Yeah, that's fair. One thing why we should mention in this whole trade, so Isaiah Thomas goes to L.A., and Boston gets the Lakers pick if it's two through five. Yep. So could IT end up helping Boston again? L.A. has gone 12 and 4 over the last month. But bring an IT in, will that make them worse?

Will I make them give us that chance getting that pick? I love conspiracy sharks. The mole. He's a mole. There's a great meme on Twitter yesterday, like with Isaiah calling Danny Angel on the phone saying, the plan worked out perfectly. Cleveland's and shambles.

And now I'm going to the Lakers to help them tank. And I don't know. I mean, to seriously answer a question, Isaiah Thomas is not a good player right now. He is a negative player, period, at this moment. So will he help the Lakers? Well, I mean, I think that goes back to the question from before the season. Will he return to anywhere close to the player that he was in the past?

And I think that's a big question. Isaiah is still hurt. But for Isaiah, personally, L.A. is a chance for him to get more opportunity, where LeBron held the ball the majority of the time in Cleveland, as he should. And L.A., I think Thomas will have a chance to prove himself. And look, you know, the Lakers, they've been really good lately. And I think if you're them, not only did you open up cap space here, but you at least have a chance to be better. If Isaiah does start to become the guy that he hopes to be before he hits for agency, I think they could get helped.

But I definitely don't think they get hurt by trading Nance or Carson. And the other part of it, too, is if when Isaiah comes in, he's going to take Caldwell Pope's starting job because they're going to start Lonzo and Ingram still. And Caldwell Pope's on a one-year deal, he signed a get-well contract to prove himself for next year's free agency. So, like, the chemistry problems in Cleveland come to L.A. Unless Thomas comes up the bench, become a sixth man again. Didn't you just see, what was his agent said in capital letters? This guy is not coming off the bench. He will not come off the bench.

Right, because all caps means that's, in fact, that is just a non-negotiable. Well, I'm mispicturing like Isaiah stomping his foot. Like, that means I'm stomping my foot. Firstly, like you come off the bench for a team like Cleveland. L.A. is still a pretty bad team. That's going to hurt your pride to come off the bench for a bad team if you were an All-Star last year. And the thing with LA is they also have no incentive to tank. As we saw with the deadline, there are a handful of teams that did or didn't make moves that are going to be tanking the rest of this season.

So Charks post-deadline, who are the teams that should be tanking, the teams that will be tanking? Who are the teams that need to tank the most? Okay, I'm looking at it right now. So I think right now there's probably eight teams who are tanking. Let me know if I missed anybody. In the east, I'm looking at Atlanta, Chicago, New York, Orlando. In the West, it seems like Dallas, Sacramento, Memphis, and Phoenix. So there's a lot of teams who could be blowing some games.

I think eight is almost a third of the league. And all those teams have no reason to be good the rest of the season. I think Sacramento needs it more than anybody else, more than any team in the whole league. Kings need it because they don't have their 29 first round pick. You mentioned how the Celtics or the Sixers will get that Lakers first this year. the team that doesn't get that pick, they get the King's First next season. So for Sacramento,

they need to tank harder than no team is tanked before the rest of this season because they need that pick. I don't think it'll be too hard for them. No, it won't be. They have a very poor roster. They got Joe Johnson,

who they'll, in all likelihood, be waving. He'll be cut, right? Put it this way. They made a mistake a couple years ago drafting Papayanas, who they just waived yesterday. The 13th pick in 2016, just two years ago,

not even two years ago. they waived him. They cannot miss on this upcoming pick. And it's possible, I mean, it's too early to say. You can never say it this early, but 22-year-old Justin Jackson, who they drafted 15th last season, has not been very effective for Sacramento. Harry Giles has still not played. He got shut down the season because of the leg injuries he's had.

Scalibisier. Yeah, I mean, how many games has Harry Giles played in the last four years, like five? The overrun just probably said at five. I'd take the slide over, but not a lot of games. Yeah, like 10, 12 games. probably. I'm glad he got his money. That's all I can say about that. They need somebody to pair with De Aaron Fox, who is pretty much

one of the only two bright spots on that roster. De Aaron Fox and Bogdan-Bogdanovich, who has been wonderful. He was probably the best player in that 2016 Sun's Kings trade when the sons traded up for Marquis Chris and the Kings ended up landing Papayanas and Scal

and Bogdanovich. I mean, that kind of tells you, like nobody knows anything about the draft. Like, looking back on it now, two years later, the 27th pick, and these two lottery guys, who knows, right? That's almost an important thought right there where this is a puzzle just as much for NBA teams, right? All you need to do to know that is just look back at the draft and see which players fell, think about why they fell, and think about what is it about certain players that were overheighted to go so high in the draft. So this year there will be bust, despite the fact

that there's probably in your eyes seven or eight guys in your top two tiers, and for me it's five or six, there will be bust in that group. And I think, that really touches on to circle back, your fear with guys like Aiton, like with Bomba, with Bagley, where you might rather go with the slightly safer guy, because oftentimes those quote-unquote safe picks do go boom. This is true, but yeah, that's definitely true. And I think that is probably fair. I'm a little more conservative now.

I look at Orlando. They have been tanking for like five years. They have, what, one good player right now on their entire roster, Aaron Gordon? It can be pretty cold out there you missed in these draft picks. All right, well, we get out of here, Charks. Class is over. But before we go, Professor Isaac, we need some grades. Yeah, so I want to start by saying that you guys both did really well for your very first class.

Thank you. This is actually a very wily teacher move to be like, oh, you guys did so well on the first draft. So, you know, set the expectations high. But Charks, your comp with Luca Donchich with Larry Bird was a little lazy. They're both white guys. You know what I mean? How else do you compare players anyways, honestly? Isn't that what we're doing?

No, but isn't there that there's that Daryl Morey theory of like you can't make same race comparisons because it's lazy? I think Luke Donchis looks more like Paul George than Larry Bird. Oh, interesting. Because he can pull up from anywhere, right? He can play make. He can get his own shot, all that stuff. KOC, you were a little harsh on Jaron Jackson, I think. I like Jaron Jackson.

Professor? Listen, I'm a Michigan State fan. My dad went to Michigan State. I love Denise Lansing for two years. You can't be harsh on Michigan State guys from now on, okay? Okay. So both of you guys get an A-minus for today, just setting your expectations high just to let it down next week on.

See, I say drop the boom now. Give us like C's, then make us work harder. Well, thank you for listening to the first episode of Draft Class. We'll be back next Friday and every Friday up to and through the draft on June 21st. Yeah, and please check out all our NBA content on the ringer.com and the ringer podcast network. If you like the show, give us a rating interview on Apple Podcast. We'll see you next week. Class dismissed!