The Ringer NBA Show - Early 2019 NBA Draft Thoughts | The Corner 3

Episode Date: March 15, 2019

We react to Thursday night’s games, where the Pacers proved they’re going to be a tough out in the playoffs and Luka Doncic started to look worn down by the NBA season (2:04). Then Kevin and Danny share a short list of prospects who are piquing their interest early on in the run-up to the 2019 draft (22:36). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor and Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Use promo code Yahoo 25 when you make your first deposit for $25 and free play. Now it's time for The Ringer NBA show. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. My name is Kevin O'Connor, and this is the Corner 3 shooting or driving into a long two because today we are without our partner, Jonathan Charks, who's a way doing bigger and better things. So that means today, it's just me and Ringer Associate editor, Danny Chow. Hello, I have absolutely no idea where Charks is. I actually didn't ask him.

He said he was going to have the day off. I'm like, okay, fine, you've fulfilled your tasks for the week. Well, let it be a mystery. And our users can just assume or think or imagine up the greatest possibility of where he might be. I mean, to be honest, like, Charks already is one of the ringers' great mysteries. I remember in our, it came up recently that he was a referee for like kids basketball like a couple years back or something like that. Yeah, he was just like, hey, man.

It's a hard gig. Yeah, it's hard, man. Just don't put all the blame on the refs because it's a hard job. Yeah. He was defending the referees, which, you know, it is a hard gig, and we talked about this recently. Bay refereeing is not easy. Neither was playing basketball. Last night, we had a couple of good games in the NBA.

We're going to talk about those, and then later we are going to discuss the upcoming month in March Madness. Zion Williamson was back last night. We're going to just talk him and a bunch of other prospects as well. Let's start off with the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder. What a game last night, Danny. Indiana won 108 to 106. they trailed by 11 with 6 minutes and 30 seconds to go until West Matthews put the game in the go-head pocket

With 1.8 seconds left with 11.8 seconds left on the clock, what a game. Incredible. There's still a lot of love. So Paul George dropped 36 points. Very impressive performance up until the final minute, 30 seconds or so where he basically lost the ball like three or four different times it felt like in that position. But yeah, there's still a lot of respect out there.

after the game Dad Young was quoted as saying you know Paul George was good when we when he left here that motherfucker is great now his words not mine it is a great quote and it really shows like both teams kind of made out very very well in this trade in the trade that you know the Paul George trade

for sure and you know that's the weird thing with the San Diego Pacers team the best player they got in that deal Victor Olipo is not there anymore and yet guys are continuing to excel on this team in a moment where some teams would fold. I thought the defense they played last night to close the gap in that game was just absolutely tremendous as it has all season long. Miles Turner going from a shot blocker to like a legitimate feared rim protector, a defensive player of the year candidate is something that has not gotten overlooked this season. We're talking about it. A lot of people are talking about it. But man, it's been impressive to see the strides he's

taken as a young, young center taking that leap. Yeah, I think it's the one thing kind of holding him back in terms of the defensive player of the year consideration. It's just like he has to split so many minutes with Sabonis. So you're not really getting to see him play those like long, you know, strenuous games. He's still only playing like 27, 28 minutes. Exactly. That's the difference

between those guys that are doing it for that amount of time. Then maybe next year if he's 32, 33 minutes per game, then I think you're talking to one of them is a different player of the year. It's just like how do you balance, you know, the minutes? Something has to with the Pacers, especially if you can't play Sabonis and Turner together, which they haven't been. So, you know, which is a good call

by Nick Millen to do that. Right. And you have to stagger them because, you know, Sabonis has very clear strengths that he put on full display yesterday. 26 points. Incredible performance. Yeah, he's another guy, another six man of the year possibly. A lot of these guys could be, you know, at least not

winning the award necessarily, but in contention for the award, most improved player for Sabonis too. Nae McMillan should definitely be in coach of the year considerations too. So the Pacers are in line to get a lot of recognition towards the end of the year, even if they don't win any of these categories.

But it's like, where are we with these Pacers? Well, I mean, Bogdanovich put him aside of blossoming into a superstar these past couple of weeks. He has just been absolutely outstanding and more serviceable defensively that I think he would get credit for. That aside,

well, actually not aside. That matters because, you know, Bogdanovich has elevated his play, and I think that is giving them a scoring spark. Will it be sustainable in the playoffs? Probably not. But we talked about this before the show. I do think with this team, they've become the team that you don't want to face in the postseason because how hard they play and how smart they play as well.

Yeah. I think going back to Boyan, do you have his stats? So since the Oladipo injury, Bogdanovich is averaging over 22 points per game with a true shooting percentage over 63. And this is a guy who over the course of his career averaged 13 points. But he's always been an efficient player. He's just always been used off screens and handoffs and plays like that. But he's been running a lot more pick and roll right now. And that's been what's been behind the surge for him as a score. And honestly, man, like looking forward, I'm impressed by him.

And I think a lot of this is sustainable for him over the regular season. It's really a matter of in the postseason when he's facing the best defender on the opponent. Can he do that every position? Probably not. Like, he's going to need to defer a little bit more, which is okay because he can do that too. But with him, I mean, like, he's going to be costly this summer for Indiana as an unrestricted free agent. He's, like, played himself on that Tobias Harris territory.

And if not that, pretty close with the way he's played. I mean, it's funny that, you know, the Wizards gave up a first round pick for half a season, less than half a season of his services, what, like two, three, three, years ago. They saw this coming. They know it was coming. Exactly. Don't blame the Wizards for an office.

They're actually really, really good. You know, I, when I see him kind of blossom in this way, you know, him becoming this kind of primary, primary de facto, de facto primary player, it kind of goes back to a piece that Charks wrote a couple weeks ago, which we talked about the last time it was just, you know, the long two. Yeah. So he wrote a piece on Josh Richardson and how Josh Richardson. and how Josh Richardson has kind of elevated his play

because of the ways in which the NBA has trended. And so basically there's a lot more space now and there's a lot more kind of latitude for teams to give these players who, in any other basically era of NBA history probably would not have been given the opportunities to become a lead playmaker, you give them that opportunity as a three-point shooter

and suddenly things are going to blossom. Like, you're looking at Boyan right now, and it's like, it's basically like if the Bucks asked Malcolm Brogden to become James Hardin, and it actually worked. Like, that's kind of how I see Boeon's, like, role right now. He's like this role player who's become, you know, a lot more. If you're able to shoot and if you're able to handle

at an above average to good or great level, you're going to get an opportunity at some point or another to make plays for yourself or for others. And for him, like the old, the injury just open the door to do more. He's still running off screens and handoffs just as much as he did before. He's just running more pick and roll. It's just like a heavier dose of what we've seen of him for two years now.

I mean, he's always, he's been efficient for quite some time. It's been impressive to see him take that leap. Now the thing is, for the playoffs, I'm going to put on my Charks helmet right now. What if he averaged 10 threes in the playoffs? How does that change things? I mean, I'm always a fan of, always a fan of more three-pointers. Like, I think he's taking about like five right now. He's somebody who can take more.

Let's ramp it up. One of the things Indiana did today, or last night, Danny, was they ran a lot of pick and roll down the stretch at Stephen Adams. And this is the guy in the past that I don't think you would actually be wanting to do that. But this season, Stephen Adams has not been quite the same in the defensive end of the floor. And they had some major communication issues on that end. Or sometimes talent issues as well, Russell Westbrook fell asleep on a play that led to a Wesleyman. Matthews 3. There was one play that stuck out in particular where Miles Turner screened Paul George at around the three-minute mark. George got hit on his left shoulder and just stopped on the play. He

looked hurt and then Miles Turner got a dunk that gave Indiana the lead with three minutes to go. I don't know, man, like two things there. Paul George, to me, clearly isn't fully healthy. He's scoring the ball well the last two games after struggling after initially returning. But also Stephen Adams just has not been the same player. I wonder if you're OKC in the Western Carmen's playoffs, is he going to continue to be a liability or maybe not a quote-unquote liability? That's saved that term for Enos Cantor. Sure.

But a guy that you're going to attack, I am a lot less confident than this OKC team now as the season has developed than I was just a couple months ago. Right. Yeah. And you're looking at a team that's built that was basically all season built on defense. And their two best defensive players have not looked right in the past 15 or so games. when you have a rim protector like Adams, you know, you kind of need the perimeter guys

to kind of make up for a little bit of the slack to Which is where Paul George was in the defensive player of your conversation with his just stellar defense. Right. And but especially when, you know, he's still kind of recovering from that shoulder issue. He's not right, man. He's not all the way back.

You know, you can't necessarily ask him to be a full-time two-way player every time down the floor and especially with the Thunder's offensive woes where they can't really get that much balance out of their lineups. I mean, that's obviously where he's going to be putting all of his time and attention.

Zach Kramm wrote about that this week about the one weaknesses for every NBA finals contender and the one he mentioned from Oklahoma City was a lack of death. As you just mentioned with their lack of death. I think with this OKC team Paul George, he's their best player

and he needs to be 100% for them to have any shot at winning maybe just a round. Because right now they have lost five of their last, they have won only five of their last 13 games or up only three games in the Clippers, currently the eight seed, up only two and a half on the Jazz and Spurs,

the six and seven seed. They have the fourth toughest schedule, the rest of the season. This team could continue to slide and then we're going to see them in a first round series maybe against Golden State who they face on Saturday night, against Houston maybe.

Even against Denver would be really tough. This is wild. It really just feels like yesterday where the Thunder looked like they locked up to 13. Yeah. And... Maybe been pushing for the two. Right.

No, exactly. And yet, at the same time, this could very well be going into... You know, it could be working for the NBA's favor because you're going to get some sort of marquee matchup in the first round. I'm totally, totally looking forward to a Rocket's Thunder series.

There's so many narratives. That would be wonderful, especially like we mentioned, the pick and roll. James, James Harden, Chris Paul, going at Stephen Adams, every possession. Be tough. Be tough. Whereas Indiana, they are continuing to hold on to a home court spot in the Eastern Herman's playoffs. They currently are a half game up over the Sixers in the three spot.

I'm blown away by that team. That leads us to the NBA watch of the night. Tonight we have the Milwaukee Bucks, one team that does have their playoff spot all wrapped up. And then one team. that does not. The Miami Heat. This game's on NBA TV at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific.

The Heat need to win, Danny. They're up only a game and a half on the Orlando Magic. And this will not be an easy one against the Milwaukee Bucks. Yeah, this could be a first round preview. I mean, bucks, heat, what are we looking at? A sweep there? Probably a sweep.

And maybe also a win tonight from Milwaukee. What does Miami need to not only have a chance tonight, but a chance at winning a first round playoffs? series. Is there any hope for them? I mean, the thing with the heat is that they just have a lot of okay players who are just kind of like all kind of clustered in this morass. And you're asking for at least one of those guys to kind of climb out and save them. It's not going to be Dwayne Wade. He's questionable for tonight with, I believe, an elbow thing. Who knows? It's probably old, yeah, old age.

You know, obviously Charks wrote this piece on Josh Richard's in a few weeks ago, like, he probably has the highest star potential because of his ability to hit, you know, shots off the dribble, but he's also not a very high usage guy, and he's never been high usage guy. So it's kind of like this weird,

okay, my turn, your turn sort of situation with him, Justice Winslow, and Dionne Waiters. They're bringing druggage off the bench, but like, I don't know. I don't know what to make of this team. I think you pretty much just summarize it in time. entirely, Danny. They are a team with a lot of nice players. No great players. That's it. And that's why they probably don't have much of a shot in the playoffs, which is unfortunate. But they are a team that they will always be a free agent destination and they could add one of those guys in the future. And that's all we have to say about that. If you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com or your local cable or satellite provider. Also last night, Danny, we had just an absolutely wonderful, beautiful, outstanding, thrilling game between the Denver Nogger. and the Dallas Mavericks.

Amazing. A game with no stakes. Yes, they have lost a million games in a row, the Dallas Mavericks. And yet, in the final minute, Luca Dantridge had one of the dunks of the season to give Dallas the lead. And then, Nicole Yokic hits this off-balance, weird little shot. Ugly ass shot. That just had Luca looking like he had tears in his eyes. Yeah, I was wondering if that was just, he was bowled over in.

emotion because he lost or was it just because he was exhausted as hell? I'm thinking he was exhausted. Luca does not look entirely there right now. And it's understandable. Right now he has played 2,031 minutes and 63 games, a heavier workload than ever before, just to put that into perspective last season for Real Madrid. He had 1,835 minutes and 73 games.

The season before that was 1,613 minutes and 80 games for Real Madrid. He's playing more than ever. He is having a heavier workload than ever. And he just looks tired over the last, over the seven game losing streak. He's shooting 23% from three, 55% from the free throw line, including a critical miss last night with a 47 true shooting percentage compared to 34% from three with a 70% free throw percentage in the 64 games prior. I think for Luca, like heading into the summer, this is a reminder like, okay, time to get an elite NBA level conditioning. Like what he's done this season will not fly for him in March, April, into maybe May at some point for Dallas.

He needs to get into better conditioning. Yeah, I think for the most of the season, you know, it was kind of like, oh, I'm just kind of cruising by, you know, I'm doing very well. Oh, the NBA is a lot easier to score than Europe. You know, he said all of these things. And I'm sure, you know, he's been partying. He's been enjoying himself. He's been enjoying the food out in America, enjoying barbecue.

but yeah, I think these last few weeks will kind of tell us, you know, how committed he will be in the offseason to improving his body. I mean, that's really the next frontier for him, right? For sure. If he... The skills are all there. Yeah. They're all there and they can only kind of be, you know, amplified by him turning himself into, you know, if he ends up having one of those Olo Depot, like, oil, you know, photo shoots where he's just showing off his abs, that's when we know. in for like, you know, an MVP caliber season.

Oh, my goodness. That would be amazing. Yeah, like MVP odds would rise immediately if we see Luca Donchage oiled up looking ripped over the course of the summer on Instagram. Cut out the nachos. It's not that hard. Trust me. It's really not.

Dieting is something, it's a habit more than anything else. It's hard to break habits, but building new ones, it's hard to break those as well. Hopefully, Luca can do that over the course of the summer. You know who else who can probably go on a diet? Nicola Yolich. Another guy who Michael Malone said after the game, Nicola Yokic was tired. Still looked like an MVP candidate overall, playmaking, rebounding, but he had one of those weird games where he just did not want to score, did not look to score until six minutes,

30 seconds left in the game. He scored his first points, scored his final 11 points over the final half of the fourth quarter. Like, he can get buckets when he wants to as we saw in the final seconds. Yeah. But it's weird. It's just weird sometimes how he does that. I mean, what do you make of that? I feel like it's always kind of been that way to start the season for him.

Like, he's always the kind of guy who wants to get everyone else involved, obviously. But over the past two seasons, I distinctly remember these lulls where he's just like scoring like six points a nine. And you're just like, yo, you're our best player. What are you doing? But yeah, like, especially with him being tired, I feel like that's kind of the big question, right? Going into the playoffs, I've always kind of marveled at Yokic being able to do things. in spite of himself. Like I was always in the hot take zone of like,

Yokic should always be fat because like it, the reason why he's impressive is because he's fat. But now I'm thinking like that was before, that was cute, you know, when they weren't making the playoffs. But now, you know, they have serious expectations as a number two seed.

It's going to be interesting to see how he responds in the postseason, how he, I mean, look, there's no doubt he's a regular season MVP candidate, but there's a difference in translating that to the postseason. And for me, that's what I'm most looking forward to with this Denver team. Obviously, there's an outside chance that they can make a finals run if Golden State gets knocked off or a Golden State of suffers one injury or Golden State is just chemistry combusts and that team becomes vulnerable. But how Yokic scores in the postseason with his athletic limitations, how he's utilized.

I want to see if they ramp up his usage more as a playmaker, even more so than he already is. I'm just going to be like this team has trimmed their rotation to seven or eight guys. after benching Isaiah Thomas. It looked like a playoff lineup last night. They played eight guys primarily, and then ninth, Hernan Gomez, played only six minutes. It looked like they're prepping for the postseason with the rotation,

except they only played Barton and Harris for 27 minutes. But I wonder how does Yokic's role change? How can he play with more minutes? Is he able to sustain his energy? You mentioned Riles Turner earlier playing only 28. Yokuch is at 31. How does he perform at 35, 36, 37 minutes per game.

Yeah, stamina is always going to be an issue with him, especially when teams start targeting him in matchups. Pick and roll. Pick and rolls. You go to much smaller, much more athletic lineups. How does he hold up as an anchor? It'll be interesting. By the way, I can't forget it with this.

I got tagged in a Reddit post earlier this week by Ghost Tricks on Reddit. And he said, make it happen, please. And what he was referring to was a new nickname suggestion. for Nicole Yokic, because earlier this season, he was asked, who does he want to be for the rest of the season? He said, Michael Jordan. And someone called Lady Gurning Soul came up with the nickname, His Groundness.

What do you think? That's pretty good. Yeah, it's good. That's pretty good. His groundness. That's for, I. Plays into the fact that he does not jump more than inch off the ground. Yeah, thanks for explaining the joke, Casey.

I'm just saying it also hits what exactly at Yokuch demanded. to be Michael Jordan for the rest of the season. That's clever. I like it more than Joker. Really? How about Big Honey? I'm not a fan of Big Honey. I love Big Honey.

I love Big Honey. What do you like about Big Honey? I just... Because he's big and he's pudgy. Like, it's funny. Big Honey works. I don't know. But Joker is, I mean, besides the magazine,

pronounced, Yokic. But Joker, Joker. It's also, you know, it's... He's a funny guy, though. It's Djokovic's nickname, too. You got to give it to... Seated to one of the best tennis players of all time. That's fair.

That's very fair. His groundness, quite good. Crops. It's good. I'm not sure it's going to catch. But it's a good nickname for, I think, NBA nerds like us to occasionally throw out there. When he has plays like he did last night, we're just barely jump off the ground, his groundness. I like it.

I mean, snail mail also. Snail mail, great band. Great band. Really a great band. But if you're talking about, you know, having a. nickname that is truly suited for him, slow as hell, delivers things. Boom. Snail mail. Hmm. Hmm. Did we just find a good nickname here, did we? Reddit, you can grade. But if you do grade, please grade on a curve. I'm going to, I'm going to put this on Twitter to a poll. So like,

go to my, maybe we'll do it like at ringer NBA or my thing at Kevin O'Connor NBA or at Danny. Chow. Don't do it on one. Don't add me. We're going to put him a poll of some Nicola Yokic nicknames to find out which one people like the most. That's a good one, Danny. That's a contender, stale mail. Very good. One guy who can jump was back last night. Zion Williamson had 29 points, 13 of 13 from the 4, only 2 of 9 from the line, but that's okay.

He also had 14 rebounds, 5 steals, 2 assists, 1 block. and we're going to talk about some other guys that we haven't discussed before but we have to start with Zion and Leibson because that was an unbelievable game last night and he was just absolute control from the opening tip. Yeah, I mean, the five steals really show it

like he's just, he's everywhere. He's absolutely everywhere and how do you shoot 13 for 13 in a tournament game? Like that's wild. And like that's the thing with him I feel like, you know, we've talked about him before and we're going to continue to talk about him, but like, it's not just the dunks. Like, this guy has really good feel for the game and just command of the game.

And as a teenager, I get excited to thinking about what does that develop into, you know, five years from now, 10 years from now as his ball handling continues improving, as he improves on his right hand. And it's just as his awareness on the floor continues to improve as he gains experience. I don't know, man. Like, this guy, you know, it's not. It's not an exaggeration to say there's a chance he could be the best player in the league. Not at all. No, I mean, there's weaknesses that he do be improved on like any other player. Mention his offhand, his discipline on defense.

But these are such little things. And I think the indicators of his just control and awareness on the offensive end, they bode so well for him. Yeah. So just to put this in perspective, when he was 15, he was a 6-3-185 pound guard. In three years since... Which is really hard to hear. He put on, he tacked on 100 pounds of muscle and or fat

depending on where you are on that truth or theory. He's just thick. Yeah. So like this guy went through an incredible transformation and when I wrote about this for our year end package to 10 2018. One of my favorite articles of the year. It was basically

the idea that look there was a point in time in which he was basically a normal NBA athlete. He was very athletic but he didn't have that pop. And he had talked about how during that stretch of his life, he was basically like 15, his knees hurt

really badly because of growing pains. Not because of any injuries, but because of growing pains. Hope not. And then, oh yeah. And then the growing pains stopped. And suddenly he was just like, I was way bigger, way faster, I could jump higher than everyone. It was basically like I had developed superpowers.

And so that's basically what we're seeing. And we're just seeing him refine and him getting accustomed and more familiar with his superpowers. It's a beautiful thing to watch. It is. Jim Ben Beheim had a quote last night that hits almost exactly what you're saying, Danny. He said, I've been in this game over 50 years. I've seen a lot of great players.

I'm not going to say he's better than them, but he's a different player. There's no one really like him. And it's true. And I hate invoking the name LeBron, but besides LeBron or guys like that, it's hard to find guys that he reminds you of. He's different than Blake Griffin. he's different than Charles Barkley other guys that he gets compared to

he's different than LeBron James for that matter he's just a very unusual player that we haven't seen before that just has you know he resembles so many different types of guys depending on how he's used want to use on my Draymond Green maybe he develops his discipline on defense and his awareness and becomes

a guy that can literally switch against any player in the league with his not only like lateral quickness and verticality and strength but like he plays hard, man. And that's what makes Dreamon special. It's one of the things that makes DreamOn special.

The other thing is just his natural length. And the other part is the fact that he is just a computer on the defensive end. That's the part Zion needs to develop. But like, there's that lane for him. There's a lane for him to be a DeAndre Jordan rim-running dunker. There's a lane for him to be a Blake Gryffin-style pick-and-roll playmaker.

And there's so many different ways he can play for you. The weird thing is, he's so athletic and he's so gifted that these lanes that you're talking about can all kind of merge into one. He can be all of those things at once. And it kind of reminds me of like, like a person who's just like really like into different kinds of music, like is really like eclectic with his taste.

He's kind of a product of, you know, being able to watch all these guys on YouTube and being able to see all these, all these highlights and being able to just grab whatever, you know, he wants out of these guys because he has the athletic, you know, ability to. Like he's, he's just a perfect. vessel for like literally any type of player you'd want to watch in the NBA. It's just like it's it's honestly mind-blowing. The first band that comes to mind for me is tame impala.

Kevin Parker, his first two albums, inner speaker and lonerism were more psychedelic rock based. But then currents came out and it has all those same rock elements integrating tones, tones that you would hear in R&B. It's just a blend of everything. Is there any of that comes of mine for you. Who is music's Zion Williamson in the eyes of Danny Chow? The ears of Dan Chow. I can't really come up with them just because like, especially

like when you're talking about someone who's like a true prodigy, like Zion is young. And I think one of the things that we talk about like with Blake Griffin, the player he is now is nowhere near or is nowhere close to, you know, the player he was at Oklahoma where he

was basically all he did was dunk and hit his head on the side of the backboard. Like Blake was a fantastic athlete But he definitely didn't have all the skills he had He has now Whereas Zion kind of has the nascent skills In all of these different facets Already like packaged

And now it's more about refinement That's crazy NBA fans who pay literally zero attention To college basketball Who don't watch house of highlights Or anything like that Are in 4AH is a massive and beautiful surprise Basically my brother

Like I've asked him Like have you seen any highlights of Zion And he's like I've heard so much about him I haven't seen a single, single clip. The only thing he's seen... That's really hard to believe. Yeah, my brother is about eight years older than me.

He's a dad. He's got better things to do. He's got other things to worry about. The only thing I've shown him is how he ripped through a shoe. Okay. So that's all he knows about Zion. You know, that's a good little tease to show. Like, this guy is so explosive.

Yeah. He broke a shoe. One guy that, let's go through this like this, Danny. The prospect, that's Zion Williamson is like, prospect everyone is watching. We're going to do the prospects. I'm watching them the prospect you're watching. The prospect that I'm watching is Matisse Thibel.

He is a 6'5-wing senior at Washington, and he is somebody who projects as one of the better defenders in the NBA. But what he's doing right now is just... Yeah, at the college level. At the college level, playing within Washington zone, to be clear, he is allowed to do something that's really unusual. but he just roams kind of like a free safety on the field, on a football field,

but he's doing on a basketball court. And he is going to break the record for most steals by Gary Payton. But what he's doing now with blocks and steals exceeds any college basketball player ever, ever. So Thibble is averaging right now 3.6 steals per game and 2.3 blocks per game. And this is, you know, inflated. Keep in mind, he's 6'5. Yes, 6.5. And this is inflated by.

the zone and his ability to roam. But the thing is with him is usually I think it's hard to read guys in zone, but I think he shows just the immense vision and instincts to just jump passing lanes. He had a moment at the end of the game last night where he jumped a passing lane on a standard pass and then dunked it to seal the game for Washington

win over USC. I think he can be a guy who is just a ferocious off-ball defender who's always locked in who is constantly a threat to cause deflections or just get in passing lanes and just take away a play that a team wants to use. But then on ball as well, he has the strength and lateral quickness

to be a great, versatile on-ball defender. Right now, he's like an early second round pick, late first-round pick. I think this coming month, I would like to see a little bit more aggression from him on offense to see if there's more to his game to push him up and through that lottery unless he's going to be there already because of his defense.

Yeah, I wonder about him one thing he's pretty conservative in terms of just manufacturing basically anything on offense for himself he kind of seems very content to be this kind of role player and you know Danny Green definitely comes to mind he certainly makes plays that make me think of Kauai and you're just like kind of combining like Danny Green's build with kind of Kauai's almost

like supernatural instincts and you have yourself a ready made built-in 3D player who's like locked and loaded going to be, you know, yeah. Yeah, it's like the only adjustment for him is going to be like breaking his old habits of just playing zone and being able to run around the floor and do whatever he wants to do. But like he does that. It's not like he files. He rarely ever commits silly files or makes, you know, dumb mistakes on the floor.

I don't think it will be as hard of an adjustment as maybe, you know, we imagine it would be because of his work ethic because of his character. I've talked to a handful of people about him. He seemed to check all the boxes as a person. With Thibel, you mentioned his conservativeness on the offensive end of the floor. Like, he is so differential, man. I wonder with him,

is there more to his game that he just has not been empowered to use or that he does not even maybe even see in himself? You know what? It doesn't matter because it's okay. Like, if he's just a really good defender who stands in the corner and shoots threes for you. You know, I was reading online, there's concerns about his jumper.

Like, he shot 36.5% on spot-up threes over his four years at Washington. He's not a great shooter by any means, but it's not like he's Andre Robertson up there. He's not even Tony Allen for that matter. He's going to be a guy who can hit an open shot for you. And I think with his smooth shooting form, he's going to be able to extend that to NBA range. Like you said, he is locked in, ready to go as a three-indy guy. And to me, I'm not sure if I'm going to end up having him ranked in the lottery, but I might,

especially if pre-draft workouts he continues making progress on the offensive end of the floor. Because what we've seen right now is a guy who can be a great defender, and at least, at least can just spot up for you on offense and then attack closeouts. I mean, really, if you're thinking about this draft and everyone's talking about how top heavy it is, what we've just described is a perfect role player. And if you're down in the mid first round, late first round, isn't that exactly what you're looking for? Like, at a certain point, you're not trying to swing for the fences for a star. You're trying to build up your actual foundation, right?

And so Thibold makes complete sense to me as a guy you can slot in and he already projects right now to be an excellent NBA defender in my opinion. There's a lot of guys like that, Danny, including the guy that you have

on your list that you're looking forward to watching this love. So Brandon Clark is my guy. I am so excited to see him play in the tournament. I think, you know, outside of Zion, you're looking at maybe the second most impressive

college basketball player of the year I mean, his numbers have been really good and the thing is he's not even the most popular player on his own team. Rui Hachimura has kind of taken all of the star power and, you know, rightfully so. He's a great, great player. But Brandon Clark, let's just run through his numbers right now.

It's 16 and a half points a game, 8.4 rebounds per game, 1.8 assists, 1.2 steals, 3 blocks per game. This guy is 6.8-215. He's built like a prototypical three. He's basically built like Trevor Reza. And yet, this guy is

essentially, he can defend one through five and kind of shows off this almost Pascal Seacomimi game. He plays hard, man, like running the floor. Not quite

like Seacom, he's in a different level, but the tier below that, for sure. I think one thing that separates him in Seacom, Seacom is definitely end-to-end speed is just, there is no one in the NBA who can match him at the front court positions. Where Brandon Clark really impresses me really impresses me is his explosiveness. Like, he will just kind of glide in from anywhere and seemingly block your shot.

Like, we've talked about Zaire Smith last year, about how he was able to make some just ridiculous defensive plays because of his athleticism. Brandon Clark, a few inches taller or, you know, a few pounds stronger, can do that as And he's one of the few players who really makes defense really fun to watch. I wish he were a little bit taller. Yeah. Because his game is best suited to be a center. His jump shot is developing.

He totally overhauled his mechanics from when he played at San Jose State to where he is now. His free throw percentage has improved as well, 69% over the season. Been better since December, as we talked about yesterday, Danny. we're going through his scouting report for the draft guide coming out next week. And, you know, Clark, his progress as a jump shooter is at least, I think, and a free throw shooter is at least encouraging

that he can someday become a competent outside shooter. Look, like the percentages aren't great, only 29% from three. But I think with his solid form, the touch inside on floaters with either hand, fadeaways, and the free throw line improvements, I think he can at least become a solid shooter for you, who's maybe like a Aaron Gordon level shooter, something like that?

I mean, he's... That's fine. He's shooting 70% from the field this season. That's wild. Like, he's an incredible finisher. He has as many blocks as missed shots. The broadcast mentioned that the other night. That's outrageous, dude.

That's outrageous. And look, in any other era, I don't think we would have known what to make of this guy. 6, 8, 215, oh, but you're going to play him as a center? How the hell do you do that? he's kind of, in terms of size, he's kind of closer to Sean Marion and Gerald Wallace than he is Pascal Seacum, who has about an inch and maybe like 10, 15 pounds on him. But I think, you know, in this day and age where you need a guy who can basically switch every single position, the guy's a phenomenal perimeter defender. He's not just a weak side shop locker. You know,

he can guard all those positions. You're really only, my biggest concern for him going forward is just, not going to be able to guard and beat. Who's going to be able to guard and beat anyway, you know? So I look at him and I'm having a really hard time not putting him in my top seven. Ooh, that's interesting. I think his defensive versatility is off the charts. And I like this is kind of my skew with draft prospects. I tend to favor role players more than star power, which is.

has burned me many times. You can get you into trouble. Yeah. I'm really, really impressed by Clark and I'm dying to see how he looks in the tournament. You know,

I think with both these guys that were mentioning Thibel and Clark, they both are going to be 23-year-old rookies. Yeah. They're 22 right now. They'll be 23

before the NBA regular season begins. There's obviously a disadvantage in drafting an older player because more often than not, not always, but more often than not, they don't approve

at the level that an 18-year-old player does. who's at some point going to be out of high school or right now is a freshman out of college. But there is a financial advantage to drafting these players because you were having somebody

who is ready to help your team on a rookie contract. And there's still an outside chance that one of those guys developed into something more. We have seen older players get better. Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green. Like those are just the first...

Pascal Seaccombe. These are just the first couple guys that come to mind. There are many more. And with Fibble, it's like, oh, what if his ball handling does finally get better when he's a good student as well when he's not focusing on classes

and he's doing nothing but training for the NBA? What happens when Clark gets into the gym and he's able to just put up 500 three-pointers a day? What happens for these guys? We're not saying they're going to be stars necessarily but there's still a lane for these players

who have gotten better every year in college to continue getting better in the NBA. I wouldn't feel bad about having either of those guys running the lottery. And I think I might end up having both in the lottery as well. They're impressive. Yeah, absolutely. And with the way the league is going and the way that defense is kind of become this kind of amorphous thing,

you kind of want these guys who you can just kind of lock in and be like, okay, I trust them on my team full of veterans. And by the way, both high character guys as well, who are going to accept their roles and do what the coach needs them to do. Let's have some quick hit thoughts on whether it's NBA thoughts, college basketball thoughts. I'll start off. John Morant, Murray State is going to make the tournament. Yes. He might be the second or third best prospect in the draft. I have no additional thoughts from when we talked about him the other week,

except to say, I'm just excited to see him against better competition. Just to strengthen the evaluation, because obviously at Murray State, they are not facing, they're not facing the Dukes of the world. They're not facing even the Wisconsin's of the world. Hey, man. Belmont. Belmont's pretty good. Belmont is pretty good. But I just hope we get to see him in a really good matchup for NBA scouting purposes

because he does have some flaws in his game. But the dump shot being one of them, he needs to just change his shooting mechanics. That's not something that's going to happen during a tournament. But even just things like his decision making against pressure. I want to see how he handles that. What happens when teams are forcing him to his right hand, which he is not good with? By the way, as I mentioned the other week, it is his primary shooting hand, but he is not comfortable with his right hand around the rim, not as comfortable.

He doesn't rarely ever drives to his right either for that matter. Kevin has found a new pet project. I'm just saying, that's all. He should not switch shooting hands because he's a solid shooter. He's like 80 plus percent for the free throw line. I'm just saying, I look forward to seeing how he reacts to that pressure against better defenses. How about you, Danny? Yeah, I'm really excited for Nikiel Alexander Walker, who is Shagulogist Alexander.

Shade Gilgis Alexander's cousin. So he's basically... You should get a bunch of Alexander match. Yeah, it's going to be a chore one day with all these hyphenated names, man. They were real long. Ben Jarvis Green Ellis and the Patriots. That's always one of my favorite sports names.

Just a great name. Oh, yeah. Yeah, what was his nickname, the law firm? Yeah, law firm, yeah. Fantastic. But yeah, so Nikil and Alexander Walker, 6-5, combo guard, out of Virginia Tech,

65205. He's kind of changed his role completely in the second year of his college campaign. His first year, he was basically a spot-up three-point shooter. This year, he's basically run the team. He's increased his points per game average by about six points. But the thing is, his efficiency is skyrocketed as well.

Like, he's gotten better as a three-point shooter. He's taking more of them. His field goal percentage is skyrocketed. This guy's basically exactly what you'd want out of, you know, a secondary facilitator, tertiary facilitator. He can hit the three. Like, and he's huge. He has long arms.

You worry about his defensive capabilities. We were talking about Thibol playing in his own. Virginia Tech plays in his own as well. It's not, he's not quite as apparent. And he is not allowed to do the things that Thibel is. Yeah. And he's not necessarily the kind of athlete that can kind of transcend the system. But he's made plays.

He's made plays on defense. And I'm kind of looking forward to seeing more of that in the tournament going forward. Yeah. Is he a lottery picking your eyes as well? He's on the fringe. I think with a good showing and look, with a good shooting performance at the combine, anything can happen. I think he's right on the fringe there. I personally, I would have him in the low lottery.

I think Charks does as well. You know, having a 6-5 guard who has long arms and can project. to defend multiple positions while shooting threes at a high percentage in different types of looks, that's insanely valuable. Last player, I'm looking forward to watching for purposes of our discussion, is Bruno Fernando, a big man from Maryland, sophomore. He, I believe he explored entering the draft last year. But ended up not staying in.

Fernando has made immense progress as a, just an overall player. Last year there was questions about his effort on the defensive end of the floor And there still are those questions But he's been better overall I'm just curious how he Brings an intensity In the tournament Because there's still no questions about his offense

He can rim run He's an explosive athlete around the rim Who can finish with either hand with touch as well He's developed his shot too From outside he looks pretty good Pretty good I'm very impressed by him as an overall player I just want to see that intense defense

just locking down the paint for Maryland. So he fits one of my favorite prototypes, which is, this is honestly not a prototype. It's just something that I have a strong fascination with. He's a center who shoots free throws well. I love that. So he's a career, like 75.6% free throw shooter. He's shooting almost 77% this year.

Give me a center who can hit free throws. Because if you're going to get fouled, come on. You can't leave points on the board like that. So this is why I've actually loved Jonas Valenshenius in the past just because he's like a 75% fruit thrift shooter. You can feel safe with him on free throw line. It's an irrational thing, but I'm just like, look, I don't want a center who can't shoot free throws. Do you know the real reason why I brought up Fernando?

Danny? I think I do. Where does he go to school? He goes to school. Maryland. Maryland. Yep. And who is the most famous graduate of Maryland?

Steve Francis? Larry David is another one as well. According to Google, I just Googled that now. I did not know that. It's on my head. But there is a very famous one. Yeah, I think I know where you're going. You're going here.

Hurtier she wrote. Harder she wrote. So my guy was a plus 35. Whoa. In just under 27 minutes on Wednesday. Is that real? Plus 35? He was a plus 35. He played 26 minutes and 56 seconds against the Grizzlies.

I'm looking this up. Yep. No, I'm honestly not joking. He's been on fire the past two games, 21 and a half points a game, on 60, 60, 100 splits. He's shooting 60% from the field, 60% from 3,

and he's made all his free throws. Four and a half rebounds per game, three and a half assists per game. Look, Trey Young is going to be getting a lot of rookie of year votes, but Herder is, really, really important to this Atlanta future. You know, I think the fun thing about this Atlanta team,

and I think we talked about this, maybe last year around the draft time, Young and Herder can both play on ball or off ball. They have a lot of versatility in their back court. And obviously, with the progress, John Collins has made in the front court with his ability to space from three in addition to being a room runner, right now,

they could find that missing piece in the draft, depending on that where Pickett Lans. Zion would be great for that team. He's so good for anybody. But for this team especially, like he's just a perfect fit because he's also another guy who can do different things for you. He's not going to clash against any of the players on the team.

It seems like that seems like that's what Travis Schlank has tried to build here, a team that's malleable that can play different roles and take on different shapes depending on what they need to do to win games. And long term, I think that's probably going to be the mindset heading into the draft two, finding a guy who can do different things for your team. team. Herder was such a smart pickup and it kind of goes back to our draft talk. He's one of those guys who, you know, he was on my radar, obviously, because he was a great

shooter, but, you know, editing your draft guide last year, I was just like, there are so many, like, other skills. And I went back to the film and I was watching it. I was just like, there's just so many other skills that he has that are like NBA caliber. And by the time, you know, I was done watching the tape, I was just like, this guy should be in the lottery. Like, he was good. He rose so quickly from being a second round kind of forgotten prospect to getting drafted, what, 19th was it?

Yeah. I mean, 19 was the lucky number for the Hawks the year before, too, John Collins. And who will be that guy this year? We shall say maybe it'll be thiable. Maybe Clark rises not just the 19, but into the lottery. There could be a number of guys that are candidates. Like, this draft overall, it's top heavy, but I think there are a lot of good role players to be found. Kevin Hutter-esque players

that are going to rise up the rankings through workouts and all that and you're going to look back at this draft a couple years from now and be like, oh, a lot of good winning role players. We're taking 25th, taking 40th. By the way, Herder had like one of the most

impressive shooting performances at the pre-draft combine in recent memory, and he did it on a broken hand. Unreal. Unreal. The legend grows. He has a chance to be a really good play. for 10 plus years in the NBA,

which is more than you can say the most young players. This weekend, there's two big games on Saturday night, the Thunderface the Warriors. We talked about O'KC earlier, and there's not a lot else to say about Golden State at this point,

but that's going to be an awesome game. Looking forward to that. And then on Sunday, we get the Sixers and the Bucks. And this is the first time those teams have played each other since October, which is,

it's so funny, looking back at that Bucs score, Dating. Yeah, who cares? It's irrelevant. List the players who are. Who played that game. Six or starting five, that game was Joel Embed,

Ben Simmons, Bob Covington, Dario Sarich, and Markell Fultz. Off the bench, they had Mike Muscala, Amir Johnson, Landry Shammat, Furcan Korkmaz, JJ Redick, and T.J. McConnell. McConnell and Redick are the only guys off the bench that play now. Like, this is a drastically different team. That team back then, those games are relevant.

Right. Just they do not matter one bit. So I'm looking forward to the opportunity to just assess this healthy Sixers team against the best team in the East. Potential second round series? Second round, who knows, could end up being a Eastern Herman's final series as well, depending on how the series shakes out. One thing we've seen in recent weeks against the Bucks is they've had larger players defending Janice. DeAndre Aiton recently did a really nice job containing Janus, preventing him from having an explosive game. I do wonder who does Philadelphia have that as a primary defender against the Milwaukee Bucks

because I think conventional wisdom would say Ben Simmons, but not necessarily because they have a lot of size aside from Yonis. You might have him put him on somebody else and have him Romanov Hall. Right. I mean, you're definitely going to have some moments and some key possessions where you put Embed on him, but I don't think Embed can be the primary defender. You kind of want to manage his load in game. And it really is kind of baffling how big Janus actually is.

So I was watching the Pelicans Bucks game earlier this week with Justin Vary in the office. And Davis is noticeably smaller than Janus. Height-wise, size-wise, like, Janus kind of dwarfed him a little bit. And so you put Simmons on him, I don't think he's big enough. Yeah, man. I mean, I don't either, especially for full duration of the game, You need to have multiple guys on him, really. I think you've got to throw different looks at Yonis if you're the Sixers.

Because with your different sized players, you can do that. Like, they're a big team. I think really the key is like, just don't let JJ Redick on them. Like on switches. Like other than that, I think with your size, whether it's Butler, whether it's Simmons, whether it's in Bede, whether it's Tobias Harris. I'm interested in Bueller. You know, a kind of low leverage guy.

those are the types of defenders who gave KD a lot of trouble earlier in his career. So, you know, that could be a primary look that they throw out there, but I don't think there's any one guy who's going to be able to guard Janice.

I'm looking forward to that one, Danny. It's all we have time for, but you have any good plans for the weekend? It's going to be eating anywhere anywhere good this weekend? What's going on for you, Danny? I don't know. I'm going to let the let the wind take me where it may. I think right after this, finishing up the first round of draft guide profiles,

later today going to Culver City. Can you explore that area? There it is. Hang out with my friend from back home. Looking forward to that and they'll be good. Other than that, I'm watching basketball, NBA and college. It'll be a great weekend. Happy Selection Sunday.

Yes, can't wait for that. We'll be back next Friday with Charks. We're looking forward to having Charks back on. For now, thanks, Danny. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to the Ringer NBA show. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Tell your friends about the show.

Tell everybody you know. And make sure to tweet at us about that Nicola Yokic nickname as well. Special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast. Thank you again for listening. Have a beautiful weekend.