The Ringer NBA Show - Emergency Celtics Pod With Bill Simmons (Ep. 105)

Episode Date: May 3, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons calls his dad to talk about the Celtics' epic overtime victory over the Wizards on Tuesday night (02:00), John Wall's fatigue (08:00), if Avery Bradley is injured (11:00), if Isaiah Thomas is the best Celtics scorer since Larry Bird (13:00), and the upcoming NBA draft lottery (26:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All of our podcasts, I think, are on Spotify at this point, which is a new wrinkle. I've never heard my own podcast on Spotify. Anyway, we weren't going to do a podcast today. And in fact, we put one up on the BS podcast with, uh, with, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, the South Park creators, which went up today, which is one of my favorite pods that I've done in a while. And I just assumed that was it. And I wasn't going to do another podcast until Friday. And then Isaiah Thomas had one of the great playoff games in the history of the Celtics.

My dad was there. We decided to do an emergency podcast. Dad, how are you? Health issue during that fourth quarter of the scene. Then we looked out of it. Crazy game. Great, great, great crowd. Yeah, so I went on, I went to game one of the last series when Isaiah's sister had just died.

We didn't know if he was going to play. He was crying on the court in the pregame intros. Comes out, hits a three. Crowd is just so into it. They want it for him so bad. And the team was flat. And then the team looked flat in game two. And it really seemed like, wow, this, this might not turn around.

Rondo gets hurt. They go to Chicago. It feels like they've found their identity. in these last couple games, and especially defensively. But Isaiah looking like Isaiah again, I don't know. Are you starting to get ideas? Yeah. Okay, good.

No, not yet. They did. You know, John Wall, John Wall was, and then he didn't even score in overtime. But I think Stevens is still tinkering with this lineup. I mean, last night he starts Amir Johnson, a couple minutes. and they're not they're really not sure who to put in there for the fifth starter

I mean Green didn't even play last night right he was significant during Chicago in that game last night and you and I have a lot of questions different guys are stepping up but I mean Washington is so tough it seems like so last series they needed offense which we were saying

even during game one we were like we need a second guy to create Chicago knows every play that's coming and so Green made sense in that series then this series it was clear within three minutes that he didn't make sense and that, you know, the Marquif Morris matchup, we just needed more size for that. Amir Johnson looked bad. Olinx played well. The weird thing about this, well, I mean, he's played pretty well for him. Do you trust him in a playoff series? I certainly don't. He's been okay, though. He's been okay. He plays terrible defense. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I kind of isolated him a little bit last night, and he was trying to guard Mara. Yeah. And slight. to watch. I just Yeah.

We did a decent job until he and either Morris or Porter made a difference. It seems like he's just in this series he's just going for young legs and athleticism

over, you know, he's valuing that over everything else because this Washington team has so much speed. But, you know,

Jalen was basically on the shelf in round one. I didn't think we'd see him again. And Rozier, as you said, like, You know, you never feel that good when he's shooting a three. He's never really that aggressive.

He's very good at crashing the boards. He's a good defensive player. But the way he played these last two Washington games, it started to make me think like maybe he's starting to put it together a little bit because he was really aggressive. Almost throughout was when they had Horford and the four small guys. The Crowder and the three yards. Bradley, they were pretty tough.

Yeah, for a team. But Chin Crowder. For a team that gave up like 116 points, I actually felt like they had a couple of the better defensive stretches they've had all season just from guys flying around and, you know, really being athletes and really, really being chip on their shoulder type of defense. And yet Washington, wow, is just so breathtakingly fast. I mean, it's just the first quarter he had was one of the best first quarters I've ever seen in my life. Oh, me too.

He gets down the court quicker than anybody I can remember. Yeah, and I agree with you. Not only did he run out of gas offensively, but I watched a second because it was my daughter's birthday last night, so I might have gotten in trouble last night. There was a big dinner at my mom's house, and I might have been a little too focused on the fourth quarter of OT. Zoe Anderson, she's a great daughter,

but I had to re-watch the game just because I knew I missed. some stuff. I couldn't believe how bad John Wall's defense was in the fourth quarter of T. And I think it was, I don't think he's a good defensive player anyway, but he was just completely out of gas. And he lost Isaiah at least three or four times in really dramatically bad ways where you just, the one thing you can't do against the Celtics is lose track of where Isaiah is for three seconds. And he would just lose him. Then also, and Isaiah's coming off a pick. He's shooting a three, you know, and it happened over and over again. And then I checked in Vox Corps this morning, 53 minutes.

He played 47 minutes. Yeah, that's a problem. I mean, that's a problem. He came in for those, nothing left in his legs in that overtime. Well, you know what happened. It was because they needed Beale to run the second unit, and Beal was terrible last night,

and he was terrible the whole game. It was a no-show, yep. But he had the game-winning shot. It was 11-footer. He was wide open. Did you think that was going in? That was right in front of you. Celtic near him.

I don't know. he got that offensive rebound. Wall's shot, I didn't think was going, and it was terrible. He was off balance. Yeah, that was a bad shot. And he had time. I mean, he could have said, I just had a great Washington was tired. Right. And Jannings was bad. He still scares me when he Yeah, he made some, and actually I guess Smith. I just wanted overtime.

Smith is the kind of guy that has killed this Celtics team over the past two years. just those tall energy guys have just always an issue. But yeah, I thought that Biel shot, if you just freeze-framed it as he was lining up for it, I've been like, wow, this is just an awful way to lose the game. And then he really short-armed it.

I mean, I thought the Wizards got really tight. Either they got tired or tight or both, but in the fourth quarter, like Morris short-armed a couple, while shot selection was atrocious and the shots themselves were worse. And Biel looked really tight. You know, I didn't think we could guard Beale heading into this series.

But I think Marcus and Bradley, they've done a pretty good job. Marcus especially. Marcus really seems like he's got a feel now for what Beal's moves are and the herky jerky style he has, and he's kind of on top of it more, you know? The problem game, they had Isaiah around Uber, but he did a pretty good job. I'm not sure to have the game, only T&T. Yeah, so he said there's a lot of shit talking, huh? Oh my gosh, there was so much between Isaiah and Morris.

Yeah. In the overtime, when Isaiah made that ridiculous fall on his rear end shot over Morris, and it was pretty neat to watch. Might not have picked up near the end of the second. Yeah. And he was, and then he, I mean, he played for game three. But he played a great game. You mentioned what they were doing with Isaiah.

They did kind of, they solved a little bit the Isaiah issue, which Chicago kept exploiting in the previous series, which was, you know, just continually tried to get him in these pick and rolls and whoever he switches on and get on the ball. And now the Celtics just put him in the corner because all of these teams basically have the same offense, which is you put a guy in each corner, you have a big guy kind of around the paint, set in picks, and then. and one more perimeter guy, and it's just basically a triangle at the top and people's switching screens. And if that guy comes out on the corner that Isaiah is guarding, he doesn't follow the guy, he just stays there. Because the thinking is like, all right, well, your offense, you're going to have somebody in the corner.

So I'm just going to stay here and guard whoever you end up putting here. And it's been pretty effective. The only thing, I don't know if you noticed last night, but there was a big moment. I think we're up like six in overtime. and somebody missed at three, and Isaiah just forgot to box out Ubre, and Ubre came in and got the lip, and Avery Bradley started screaming at Isaiah. I was just like a minute left, and Isaiah had like 48 points at that point. I didn't notice it, but I remember O'Brien.

Right, Isaiah just forgot. All right, let's talk about Isaiah. Best, first of all, best score we've had since Byrd, I'm going to say yes. I mean, a totally different player. Right. When you stand next to Isaiah Thomas, you're in shock. Yeah, he's 5'8. If he's 5'8, I'm not sure he's even 5'8.

And to see him consider three big men trying to stop him. I've never been a tiny archibald being able to get in there like him, but they didn't consistently have pretty consistent shit. He's certainly the best crunch time guy we've had since Bird. He's... I mean, he had 20 points of the fourth quarter and he had nine points in overtime. Yeah. Is that crazy?

Yeah, and he hasn't even shot that well in the playoffs and he's putting up 28 a game. I mean, from three, he's been, I think, 28%. A little better at last night, but you're right. He hasn't been hitting the... So your new best friend, Kevin O'Connor, wrote a really good Isaiah piece for the ringer to get today.

And it led with this anecdote about Tommy Hites and told him before game one of the Wizard Celtics series that there are only three Celtics he's watched in 82 years that made him say, how did he do that? And the three were Bill Russell, Larry Bird, and Isaiah Thomas. I thought that was a pretty good way to put it. Donald came down to our seats before the game, and we chatted about every crowd for these playoffs has been terrific, which is something to say given, I think we've fallen behind it every single

game, which often will take the crowd out of the game and it hasn't happened. Yeah, I noticed on game one when they were down, it's like 14-0-0-0-0-0, and the crowd was changing, let's go Celtics. Right? Exactly. Nobody died. Nobody died. And I think the crowd and particularly.

He really is. He would have really, yeah. He's definitely unstoppable if you're going to guard him the way the Wizards guarded him yesterday. I mean, that was a train wreck. And I don't know if it's the personnel or the coaching or both. but you can't let him, you can't fall asleep on him when he's running around trying to shoot. You can't, you got to swarm him at the top. I mean, you've been to these games where the teams that actually know how to defend the Celtics,

to defend Thomas. There's a certain way to do it, and they're just not doing it. Yeah. Right. Washington hasn't been doing that. And when he gets in the middle, 1-10-10-10, 10, and he went in the middle and make a shot with three guys on him and he spun it out

to the right corner and yeah and I didn't see him and Rosier made the shot I can't I can't say I thought that shot was going in in my head I didn't say it aloud in my head I'm going no no

yes you know it's one of those shots so so I said that was the best crowd since at least the 2010 finals and probably 08 I would say say that was the most exciting Celtics playoff game since game four, the 08 finals, just for the topsy-turvy drama? It's been nine years since they've played a game like that.

There might have been a game in 2010, given we went to the finals. Well, there was, wasn't there, there was one Rondo Cleveland game that I remember being, it was just like he was just better than LeBron. Maybe it was game four. There's one game where he had some crazy triple double, remember? And he was just like, it was like the all-time great Rondo game. And I think the crowd was probably as excited as they were yesterday. I think the difference with, there's two things that I think have really resonated with this team. One is just that underdog chip on the shoulder, everybody.

Like, smart coming in and grabbing that rebound from Gortat and fouling them out was like the all-time classic Marcus Smartplay, you know. I was to front a couple of games. No, he's been Marcus Smart. What are you talking about? That's what he is. I know. But that rebound... Would you call him?

Cortez. Whatever's name is. He's the big bald guy. He's the big ball guy. Marcus had a couple huge rebounds in traffic, and I thought he played great defense on Wall's final shot of regulation. It was a bad shot, but he was right there. It was a little reminiscent of when he got the foul with a split second left on Jimmy Butler,

where it almost seemed like he was going to hit his arm, but he didn't. Well, you know, the other thing going on last night, I was thinking about you, and I was thinking about your heart medication was... Oh, believe me, it was out frequently. The referee, Mark Davis. We won the game. He's way, way, way up there. He is way, way, way, way up there on the...

When you see him, you just go, oh, no, that guy. I actually thought all three of them were terrible But he was especially terrible He's always terrible And he was really really especially terrible last night I thought I was medication Oh my God He was flummixed by the

They're really bad Particularly you mentioned But they really And it seemed like We were not getting the benefit of any call Yeah For those of you We won the game

So Yeah it was just bad It was bad for both teams For those of you listening at home Mark Davis, he is a bald, muscular black guy who he looks like an actor, and I can't think of what actor it is. But he just, you'll know it's him because both coaches are screaming at him the whole game and he's got this look on his face. Like, no, no, that was the right call. You guys are crazy.

And it's always the wrong call. He's definitely in the bottom five. But, yeah, it was terrible. How about Horford took a lot of shit at three different points during the. the season. And I don't know, man. I just think it's almost like a litmus test for whether you really understand basketball or not.

Like all the stuff that he does during a game, the screens, like he said so many great screens in that game, the rebounds, to his ability to pass, his ability to stretch the floor and shoot, how hard he plays, what a great team he is. I just can't believe anyone ever complained about that contract. I don't get it. Yeah, I don't get it. And I think if people didn't know how much he made, they'd be sure. Some people, I guess when you get a max contract, you think somebody's going to play like LeBron.

And this is Thomas and Al-Giam. Yeah. And Thomas was just that people just don't understand. And in the locker room and in the confidence he gives to people like Rozier and Smart and Jalen Brown, and so when they don't understand what he brings to the Celtics. Where do you stand on Jay Crowder these days? He's making three. He kept making those trees.

And then last night, I kept saying, no, no, no. And then it didn't go in and I'd say no again. Yeah. He plays his ass off, though. He played good defense. It's just this tendency. Yeah. It's like, and it doesn't matter if he's covered.

He's incredibly confident for what his offensive game is. Yeah. I think that's a nice way of putting. He played a good defensive game. Well, they need him against Morris, because I do think that lineup with Horford and Jay Crowder and the three guards really hinges on his ability to stop Morris. And, you know, I've always liked Morris. I think you've always liked him, too.

We kind of wanted the Celtics to trade for him, wherever he was available. It plays hard. Yeah, I do think he's getting a little too caught up in the trash talk and all the all the tough guy elements of this stuff and he looked stupid last night you know and i think the wizards have to they're getting sucked into that stuff and and i thought it really hurt them last night you know they were so busy like trying to get in this war of words of and i mean while they they have nobody in the team that can guard them maybe don't get into war words of them and uh-oh one had hitting uh then Washington bullets and Washington wizards so they

they allowed in the first quentin 10 104 yeah what a secondary record like that in the crowd. Yeah. I haven't seen a Baltimore bullet t-shirt. Yeah, that's pretty right. Where is Isaiah I don't mean

to besmirch Paul Pierce of this statement because I love Paul Pierce. It feels like Isaiah is the most popular Celtics since Bird. I was stunned when I went to that game last round.

Basically every kid under the age of 12 has an Isaiah jersey. It's like unanimous. It's it's... Yeah, that is true. The number of jerseys. It's hard to compare, though, they'll be.

Yeah. There were some KG jerseys too, though, back then. Does this change? I'd say it's pretty even in terms of T-shirts. Is it bizarre to you that in two weeks this team has a chance to have the number one pick in the draft? Think about it because... Yeah. Don't watch it this year.

Just don't watch. I'll tell you what happened. Maybe you're the problem. I think it's time for us. I think it's time for some luck. I wish there was a power. If I gave you the choice, we get the first pick in the draft, but the Lakers get the second pick,

or we get the third pick in the draft, and the Lakers don't get in the top three, which would you take? I think the really spiteful, the spiteful side of me kind of would take the Laker deal. Oh, that's it. I can already tell that if Lanzo ended up on the Celtics, you'll be spending a lot of time complaining about Mr. Ball. Probably because he's that in your wheelhouse.

The parents and the wives sit near me. Right. I'll put that aside from it. Yeah. Well, you've talked yourself into every good player we've ever had, so I'm sure you'll talk yourself into him too. Probably. He's my new favorite Celtic.

Do you think Southwax fans are too confident now about this series? Because, again, if Beale makes an 11-footer, it's 1-1 heading back to Washington. Yeah. We were down 13 at the end of the game with Isaiah. Here's Isaiah's last five days. Friday closed out the Bulls. Flew to Washington. Saturday spoke at his sister's funeral.

Flew back at 4 in the morning. Sunday carried the cells from 17 down. Monday got dental surgery. And Tuesday put up 53 in OT against Washington. Back in. You had two days of dental surgery. You're right. before that he couldn't talk.

And he had a mouth guard. I don't know if you remember he took a terrible fall. Yeah, he hit his chin. And he said that if he didn't have that mouthpiece in, I mean, talk about it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it was interesting on when I did my podcast with him, which was like 10 weeks ago, and he was talking about how he wanted to be considered one of the great players. And you hear somebody say that.

And at that point, he had been on about a 10. week hot streak and it felt like it wasn't a hot streak anymore. Like this is kind of who he was as a player. Like this is just an extraordinary offensive player. He just made the leap. But I still didn't totally believe it. And when I heard him talking about it, you know, part of me was like, all right, good luck. You're 5'8.

You know, this is, it's great that you think this. And it's great that you have confidence in yourself like this. But you're never going to be one of the great players. You know, now you think this guy is one of, I would say, the foremost explosive slash efficient offensive players in the league right now. He's on a one seed. He's up 2-0 in round 2. He just put up 53 in a playoff game, which hadn't happened since Iverson in like 2001. He has a chance to get to the next round with home court advantage.

I mean, maybe he's getting it. there. I don't know. It's hard for a Celtic fan to look at it objectively, but when somebody can score basically 30 points a game in the playoffs and put up 20 in a fourth quarter, a 9 in O T, and stuff like that, and it doesn't feel like it's just he's having the night of his life. Maybe he's getting there. I don't know. Sitting there did not feel like he was having the night of his life. It felt like he was having one of his normal games. Right, because we've been watching it since December. I mean, I wasn't surprised that he did that, were you? The crowd

wasn't surprised. It was kind of we were expecting it. And he had 33 points Sunday and you just take it points in the playoffs. He's a good shoot in last night. I have points and that's not what Thomas does. Once in a while he'll take a three that maybe he shouldn't have taken

but otherwise he takes high quality shots. I was glad he did it on a big, big national stage finally because we'd been watching it all year, but it's just hard to explain until, you know, people, people are going out of their minds last night, you know, on social media or wherever. Like, people are like, oh, my God, what is happening? And we're all watching it going, I've seen him do this 10 times, you know,

maybe more. I mean, he better than that 15 times. Barkley and that crew was there. Yeah, I mean, because they know. They know it's like for a 5, 7 guy to do this is just ridiculous. It makes no sense whatsoever. But, you know, the way basketball is going, if you have a guard that can shoot threes and get into the paint, it's probably the number one asset to have right now, unless you have LeBron. Obviously, he's going to be doing. Yeah, I think we'll be paying Isaiah $40 million a year in 2020.

I think that one's a wrap. I think he'll be getting that max contract. Yeah, the whole, there was a scenario in like December, January, where we were going, Oh, yeah, if they got the number one pick, we'd probably trade Isaiah. It was a realistic conversation. I think he's untradable now. I think he's too popular. He's probably the most popular Boston athletes since Ortiz.

I can't possibly trade him. How much his teammates love him? Did you see the end of that game? They all went to mid-court to greet him. I mean, it was like he's like the guy. You don't mess with that. So, yeah, he's on the team. So if we do pick, and it is false to the point to do something.

Yeah. We'll worry about that to some. I'm not going to worry about that today. All right. I'll see you for game five. I'm coming back. Oh, that's good to hear. You're going to try to go to Washington as well?

Possibly. Tell my stepmom. See the game there? Tell my stepmom, thanks for keeping the game five seat warm, but I'll be taking it. Okay, I'll tell her. You give her that message. I'm coming back. Good.

Glad to hear. All right. Take care. Thanks. Bye. Okay. Bye. All right, that's it.

Thanks for listening to the emergency Celtics podcast on the ringer NBA show. Vernon is back on Thursday. I am back on the BS podcast again on Friday. And again, if you did not hear our pod this week, I talked to Joe House on the BS pod on Monday. And on Wednesday, Matt Stone, Trey Parker. And guess what? Next week, 10-year anniversary of the BS podcast next Monday. Special guest coming on that Monday, May 8th, 10-year anniversary, 10 years of podcast.

Thanks for having me and the ringer NBA show. Talk to you soon.