The Ringer NBA Show - Emergency Podcast: Rockets Trade Russell Westbrook to the Wizards for John Wall | The Ringer NBA Show

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

Logan Murdock, Chris Ryan, and Kevin O’Connor heed the call as the Rockets trade Russell Westbrook to the Wizards for John Wall and a 2023 protected draft pick.  Don't forget to go find the new feed for 'The Mismatch' on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Chris Ryan, and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, what's good? Welcome to an emergency edition of the Ringer NBA show. I am Logan Murdoch, and I will be joined by Kevin O'Connor and Chris Ryan to discuss the new Russell Westbrook trade for John Wall. It's crazy. We might have an announcement by the end, so tap into that. Basketball is very good. What is up? We have an emergency edition of the Ringer NBA show.

I am Logan Murdoch. I am joined by Chris Ryan. We are talking to you right after, I can't even like get this all the way out, Chris. We are talking to you right after the Rockets traded Russell Westbrook. Wait for it. Wait for it. For John Wall. This is the most important thing that would have happened to me in 2014.

You know what? That was like my third thought after this happened. Let's get the full terms out here first. Let's go. So Houston trades Russell Westbrook to the Wizards for John Wall and a 2,023 protected first round pick. There's a lot of other things that it goes. The pick goes and does a lot of things. I'm going to let you guys look at that.

It's very thing. It's a lot going on. But the reason why we're here, Russell Westbrook to the Wizards for John Wall. My first question to you, Chris, who won this trade? We did. The people did. This is a trade for the people. Because I'll tell you what.

I was like, okay, I was just watching an episode of a teacher, you know, just chilling out on a Wednesday night. And then this trade comes across. I was like, well, let me look at, let me look at some numbers. You know, let me think about what this means for Washington. Let me think about what it means for Houston. And I was like, what am I doing? Has there ever been two players that are more impressionistic, that are more just like, let's just like let it rip and see what happens?

So like, why, how can we even start to look at like real plus minus or BPM with these dudes? John Wall has even really played basketball in close to three years. I, my memory doesn't even go back that far. And Russ is Russ. what the deal is, you know, I'm a little bit shocked that the Houston experiment with Russ and Hardin is over so fast. And I really do wonder whether this means that Houston is taking another step towards getting rid of Hardin and completely tearing it down. But the people, the winner of this trade is us. Yes. It is us. You can make the argument that some other

establishments want as well. But I just don't see. What kind of establishments? Establishments in Houston Nightlife establishments? Nightlife establishments won this trade. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, we could say that, right? I think so. The proof is into putting.

Yeah, but I just, when you look at the rosters and you look at the setup, obviously, this pairs, let's go to Houston first. This pair is John Wall, who we had, like you said, we haven't seen in three years healthy. He's coming off one of the worst injuries you can possibly have in the league. in the league with a torn Achilles

for a guy that relies so much on athleticism, also a guy that needs the ball, and you pair him with arguably the most ball-stopping guard in the league. And then you put him around a roster that just, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't really fit in the modern NBA, I don't think so.

It's just like, it's, it's very wonky. One of their biggest acquisitions, I think, have been John Wall, and then you got a guy like Boogie Cousins and then you have, you know, Christian Wood too, but like, their splash ones are guys that have not, that haven't,

it just doesn't, it's not an inspiring move if I'm in Houston Rockets fan. It's just not. I need that Papa John's cam on Calipari right now like we had on draft night where he had the 10 minutes uninterrupted monologue.

Like, I gotta know whether this is like, his great dream has become realized by seeing Boogie and Wall paired together. That would have been great in 2013. Yeah. It would have been great. It would have been, that's a 51 team in 2013.

I don't see this right now, though. I just, I don't see anything inspiring out at Houston right now. And it's just, it's disappointing. It's, and it all goes back down to one to one. It goes down to ownership, the ownership change with Tommy Fertilla. It's been a systematic tear down of a great team and an organization that is used to being on top. Let's be clear. I mean, like, this is a franchise that is used to be in.

the playoffs throughout all of Daryl Morey's tenure there they were at least competitive and they were at least always trying to get to get that edge and to be a relevant team you know and relevance is something that I think is kind of fallen by the wayside because you're either going for a ring or you're rebuilding in the NBA but Houston but this but Houston was also a team that they rebuilt on the fly with Daryl more right like they weren't a team that just I were going to give up and tank and it seems like and it's odd to see the the the rockets do that right now and I don't saying that they're tanking. We don't know what's going to happen. We don't know if they're going to put James Hardin on the floor going into this season. We don't know. But for a team that was always competing against the Warriors and was one of the best teams not even three years ago,

right, was the best team in the Western Conference. For them to trade, the Chris Paul trade, that, I don't think it worked out. So we ask you this. Does this happen without Hardin's green light? I don't know. Do you, I don't, it remains to be seen,

and this is probably the concept of one of the States, it remains to be seen right now if James Hardin's green light matters right now. Right. Like, I don't know if it, I don't know if it does. So the rumors coming out, I used some were that he was not, neither he nor Russ were satisfied with the Stephen Silas hire necessarily. I think that they were there.

They at least, there was some hope that the rockets would land Tailu. There was some other guys in the mix and that they were not happy about either being vetoed or, over-ridden for the Stephen Silas hire. And what I'm trying to figure out, I guess, on the fly here, and we can get to Washington in a second, because I think Washington kind of comes out of this fine.

Houston now is in a situation where, like, I don't know, I think their leverage is kind of evaporating if they had any. I mean, the whole idea was like, we're prepared to be uncomfortable is what the word out of that camp was, that we're going to send Russ and Hardin into this season, and we're going to see what we got, and we're going to wait for the deal that makes sense for us

if it comes to that. Or if we can convince them to stay. Or we can just convince them. Exactly. If they say, hey, Stephen Seilis is an offensive genius and we're like, we're doing things the right way. And now I just don't know where this franchise is headed. I don't know if anybody does.

I mean, from what you know, do you think that this is something that I, because Hardin orchestrated him, he wanted to play with Westbrook. So for Westbrook to be on his way out the door, just a season later, I just don't think that that either, that either doesn't speak highly of what's happening in Houston

or it doesn't speak highly of Hardin's ability to pair with another star. I need the Houston Rockets brass to come up with a plan or at least come out with a plan, right? Because you're saying that, hey, we want to contend and you're saying that, hey, at least through leaks and things like that, that, hey, we're going to ride it

out with these guys. But every move that they make seems like they're dismantling everything that made them great. Right? So I don't know. I think they need to come up with a sure plan for their fan pace. Like, are you guys going to tank? Are you guys just going to just build it all the way back, try to build it all the way back up? And honestly, I don't have any confidence that they will bring it back up right now with what they're

doing right now if they chose to tank. But I think they need to come up with a, at least come up with an outward plan to say, hey, this is what we're doing. This is, we're trying to compete still or no, we're going through a rebuild, in which case, then you trade Hardin. So I don't know what they're doing, but I think they need to come out with something. The Hardin thing is one of the more unique versions of this star wants out stories that we've seen because his, you know, his deal is long enough that Houston really does have a lot of leverage here. But if you're hardened, you're really only leaving to go somewhere where a title is in touching distance. Like, you want to go to a contender. But the contenders out there, you know, LeBron just signed his extension. You know, I feel like most

of the contenders are happy with where they're at, with the exception, I guess, of Brooklyn and Philly, who are the teams that we've talked with that have been most mentioned in the hardened rumors, right, in terms of being able. But I don't know, man. I mean, like, I guess I'm really starting to wonder whether or not I don't want this to happen from a competitive standpoint necessarily, although I would do it for the, I would love love it for the content. Is hard more of like a third man than he is a second man?

Because it doesn't seem to be working out with any of the pairs that he's been trying to get in touch with you. Okay. I think, Chris, you also have to give credit to the fact that they played against one of the greatest teams of all time and that team was in their way, right? But like you could do that for like the entire Eastern conference for all of LeBron's time there, right? Like, I mean, like that that is the reality of the situation. But I don't think that's a, but I don't think that's a referendum on whether he's a number one guy.

If the team that was in his way was historically great. Sure. You know what I mean? I do think he's a number one guy. I just, I think that like I said, it goes back to needing a plan. And I just don't, I just don't see the Rockets having that right now. I don't see the Rockets. I don't see that.

And another question, we were doing that, we're supposed to be doing this. I think it'll come out soon on the ringer side. You go check this out. Check this out. We had a tier system where we all had to vote, right? We all had to vote on what team for every team in the league of, is their situation dire? Is it bleak? Are they a bubble team?

Are they on the, on the playoff bubble? Are they in the playoff, a playoff lock? I think Houston is on that fringe level between a playoff team maybe, but on that bubble. What do you think about their chances right now? Do you think that they're in a seed? Can they go in for the six seed or something like that? Doesn't it speak to the absolute? I mean, they could be anything from a six seed to a lottery team right now.

That's like the kind of scope we're talking about with this with Houston. Oh, KOC's joining us now. So Kevin, what's up? We have KOC. What's popping dog? How you guys doing? What a weird one, right, Kevin? Yeah.

Very, very weird. Just from the perspective of watching basketball and we're going to see these guys and these different jerseys, John Wall, all we know is him in a wizard's jersey, but from a basketball perspective as well, I reported a story earlier this year that John Wall and Bradley Veal were super excited

to play with each other after two years off. I think Tommy Shepard just didn't. He just give a press conference where he was like, I can't wait to have John Wall. He's not going anywhere. And I was ready for that. And despite the rumors of this that were pretty real around the draft before it to happen now, it's just really odd. There must have been some type of agreement you would think between Beale and and Shepard that this is for the best of the team. Either that or the front office, just straight up felt the only way to keep Bradley Beale in Washington is by winning.

And this deal, you know, for all the knocks on Russ, I think it does make them a better basketball team. I do too. See, okay, this is where I think, and I think I'm glad that you brought up the Wizards because it's a great transition to go into Washington situation. I don't know if this appeals to Bradley Bill. I mean, you have a guy that is a top 15 player who is a scorer who has improved his scoring over the last few years.

Do you really want to pair him with another ball-stopping guard who can't shoot, who takes the ball? he, for all intents of purposes, can be a ball hog. Does that make you optimistic if you're Bradley Bill? Like, I don't see that. I don't think that that necessarily makes him better. I don't think that. Why, KLC, why should Washington have optimism?

I don't see it. Why should they have it? I mean, you're talking to me like you're like preaching here, man. I agree with every word you said about Russ. I've said it for years. Like, this dude's not going to age well unless he changes his game and he hasn't. So in that sense, I don't know if it's good for Bradley Biel individually, but I do think Westbrook, for all his faults, is still a better bet the next two seasons than John Wall coming off such a major leg injury that does not have a good history for guys who are in their 30s that are reliant on their athleticism like Wall is for speed, agility, burst, explosiveness at the rim. it's probably not going to go well.

For Russ, he's just a better player right now and a better bet the next two years, which is all Washington can think about. And I think Washington knows what they are, even in the best of times with Beal and Wall. I mean, I know that they've both dealt with injuries over the course of their careers, and Beal has definitely emerged, I think,

as a more, you know, as a more multidimensional talent in the absence of Wall, he's obviously, like, grown into this new role. But at the end of the day, we kind of know what Wall and Beal can do in the Eastern conference. And at least, you know, if you put what Russ out there, salary-wise, it's not that much of a significant difference in terms of, who's got the longer deal, KOC? It's the same, actually. Same deal. And this gives Bradley Beal like a different counterpunch here. You know what I mean?

And maybe there's something about the way Russ is in the locker room on the practice court and whatever it is that changes the chemistry on that Wizards team. I think that Bradley Bill needs to give a call to Kevin Durant to see how it feels to be a high volume score with Russell Westbrook alongside you to figure out how to do that. And I'm not even trying to joke. I think that that's really something that he should do because it's hard to score in bunches when Russell West, I mean, when Russell Westbrook is hog in the wall like that. Like, it just is. And he is the, it's hard to call someone a ball hog when they are, when they average a triple double, but Russ is just that. KLC, I do want to get your take on this.

from the Houston side. Because we talked a bit about how we feel about the Houston side. What the hell's going on in Houston? Does there any optimism in Houston right now when you have a guy like John Wall who has a barely functioning Achilles, but he's going to go alongside Hard? I mean, not really. There's not too much to feel good about it. If you're a Rockets fan, my buddy, Sean, you, our coworker here at the Ringer, I feel for him.

I feel for you, Sean. with the Rockets here, it just feels like we are on an inevitable path towards a hardened trade. It's just a matter when it happens. That's what we're talking about. You know, like when is the trade demand

going to happen? When is the Sixers going to add more first or whatever? Yeah. The trade is our, the trade request is already happens. It's a matter of if they're going to do it. And ultimately, I don't think John Wall helps you win more basketball games in this situation.

I mean, unless Wall is 100% healthy. but I'm not so sure about that. It feels like this is Houston kind of hedging its bets. They're getting back a player that can still help contribute and maybe keep hard in there. But also, you get a future first-round draft pick after you gave it all up for Ross. Who do you think is calling the shots in Houston?

I believe Raphael Stone is. It seems to be the case. I mean, maybe Tillman-Furtitta has taken on a heavier, you know, responsibility or when it comes to decisions. But it's not like the only. or never has final say anyway, but it does seem like Stone is the guy there. What is Tillman's son going to do with all his

Rockets, Westbrook jerseys? Do you make a quilt? What happens? Maybe, maybe. I mean, I'm sure we should. That's true. Throwback game is good, though. Great throwbacks.

What a weird trade. Yeah, this is so strange because Logan and I were talking about how if you were going, if we were in a time machine and we went back to 2013-14, we would just be freaking out. We would be talking about this for hours as it is. like, we're like, I guess we should do a podcast about this. But it's like John Wall and Russell Westbrook are two of the most iconic players of the decade. You know what I mean? Of the past decade. Yeah, for sure. And I know that Wall has obviously faded a lot, but like for me is one

of my favorite players I've ever seen live is watching John Wall play basketball. So there's a, there's a part of me that I just want to sound like, as we kind of like are being very cynical about the motivations and what's going to happen with these, I love watching these guys play at their best. And so I hope that the change the scenery works out. For Russ, like, they just must not want him to come to camp. I mean, they must not have wanted to go into any kind of camp with Russ and Hardin either sitting out or not reporting or bringing whatever vibes they were going to bring. Because the timing to me is a little bit suspicious. Well, KOC, I pose this question to Chris Ryan.

I do want to pose this question to you. Does Houston have a plan? Are they are they rebuilding? Are they contending? I don't think they're going to be a contender with this, Jay. But I'm just talking about the mindset. What are they doing? What is in their head right?

They want to keep hard. And they really, really do. And I think that was the logic behind them, essentially swapping Robert Covington to create the cap space assigned Christian Wood. You're getting, you know, a big, an actual big, not a small player playing as a big, like Covington was last year, a guy you can run for you, shoot threes, switch a little bit and also

block shots. So I think that was the logic there to upgrade the roster and give them like a taste of what they had with Capella. But with this, it definitely does seem like a blend here of you are, you know, giving Westbrook where he wants to the trade him in. He wants out. You don't want to have those chemistry problems, as Chris just mentioned. Like, I think that's got to be a real element of it here with Westbrook wanting out. But with John Wall, it is interesting. Still, if he comes back and is able to stay healthy and maybe has great chemistry with Christian Wood, who's the type of pick and roll screener that he's really flourished within the past, maybe it could work out.

Maybe it could work out and keep hard and happy because ultimately that's all that matters is keeping hard and happy. He basically runs the whole organization. Kat, does either of these, do either of these team make the playoffs? I think Washington can. Houston, there'll be like on that, you know, six to nine range, depending on how things work out here with the wall but could be a playing team

yeah and it's crazy to think this right I think that right now I know back of the day the Warriors and the in the Rockets were competing for competing for titles now I think they're just competing for postseason play now and it's crazy to even consider that it's even two years later right

I think that so fast in this league now man it's just it's so fast and it's like the Warriors and then the Rockets the one team that really went as hard as they could win as far as they could against that team. They're the ones who really,

really went for it against this juggernaut dynasty that everybody was saying, well, maybe you wait out Golden State. Houston was like, nah, and now both of these teams are in the bubble, you know? Okay, question. Before we get out of here, I'm going to start with Chris Ryan and then go to KOC.

Does Hardenstay, is he on the Houston Rockets button into the scene? No, I think that this is the first part of a plan. So I think he's gone. I think they may hold him for a little while, but I think that the plan is to get to get off of him. I'd be willing to bet the same as Chris. But I will also just add, though, who's the team that's going to give what it takes?

That's what I'm going to. I don't think Brooklyn can give as much as, like, Philly can. If Philly wants to, there's other teams that could step up to the play and out, I would do that Brooklyn offers. So, like, who's that team? Who's that team that's really going to step up? Kevin, just really quick, though, if you just traded for John Wall, and maybe that's just like the only thing you could have done with Russ, like, let's just say that, hypothetically,

you wouldn't necessarily then want to go trade for Ben Simmons. Or are you just in like asset grabbing mode and you just want to bring the best players available onto the, onto the team? Yeah, I mean, I think it's asset mode and John Wall is, you know, the one guy that you might not want there in that situation at that point, making 40 plus million dollars on coming up a bad knee, but, you know, he still only has three years left, including his player options. So, I mean, you can live with it if that's what it has to come down to. But obviously, you'd want to move him to, you know, some team that might want to have a point card making that much money. Sure. Man, this was, this was, this has been a crazy night already.

So, uh, thank you, uh, Chris Ryan for coming on. Thanks KOC. KOC, man, congratulations, bro. You guys got the mismatch got their own feed. Yeah. We're super, super excited about it. Uh, you know, if people want to go follow that, just search for the mismatch on Spotify or iTunes or whatever you use to listen to your podcasts. Yeah, and Logan, we got real ones coming twice a week from now on, right? Yeah. Oh, we got it. Yeah, the cat's out of the bag.

Yes, we have. We have a lot of stuff happen on Ringer NBA show, so we're really excited about. Make sure you tap in to the real ones starting next week two times a week. We're on Mondays and Thursdays now. Love it. Starting next week. So, man, you know what I mean? Some moves getting made on the Ringer.

Make sure you listen to that, wherever you get podcasts, but make sure you listen to it specifically on Spotify. You see how I did that, KOC? I learned from you. You see how I did that? All right, man. We will see you guys next time. Thanks for listening. Basketball is very good.