The Ringer NBA Show - Enes Kanter on Damian Lillard’s Loyalty, Russell Westbrook’s Intensity, and His Activism | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

First off, Logan and Raja get into the on-court spat between Indiana Pacers assistant coach Greg Foster and center Goga Bitadze (0:30) and J.A. Adande’s tweet saying that the play-in tournament could be bad for the league if it prevents the Celtics and Lakers from making the playoffs (10:49). Then Trail Blazers center Enes Kanter joins the show to talk about the dreaded play-in tournament (19:26), playing with Carmelo Anthony at this stage of his career (31:30), Damian Lillard’s loyalty to Portland (37:25), everything he learned from the great Russell Westbrook (40:15), staying away from social media where mountains of criticism are on players' feeds (50:45), and his activism surrounding human rights violations in Turkey and what speaking out has cost him (1:01:45).  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Enes Kanter Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringers Charles Holmes and co-host Grace Spellman present the most notorious new podcast in the industry, the Ringer Music Show. Every Tuesday, they'll bring you the latest news, the hottest takes, and the deepest reporting about the wild world of music and the chaotic industry that creates it. Check out the Ringer Music Show exclusively on Spotify. It's good. Real ones. Logan Murdoch, Roger Bell, and his cancer in a minute. What's up, Roger? How you doing, buddy? Chilling, slow motion, yeah. Fired up. Ready to go? Ready to go? Andes Cantor was a great guest, but we will get to that in a second. First, I want to talk about some messy spice.

That's right on my alley. In a place we don't normally talk about, Indiana Pacers. It got spicy. Spicy, bro. Got real spicy last night. And a game. By the way, by the way, by the way, let me just interject. One of the only one of two places I believe that I could as an NBA player, like not eat a great meal.

the night before a game and deferred a White Castle. That doesn't seem like... That sounds like... That sounds so unhealthy and so not an NBA player. But doesn't sound great, though. I would, listen, as soon as we would get in in Indiana... We would... No, I don't give a shit with anybody else things.

I like White Castle. So, like, we'd get off that plane, and in full... I would actually eat a good meal that night. But my snack, like, as soon as we get off that plane, I was in a cab, White Castle in the April. That doesn't sound great, man. Oh, it was great. I hope the food options of Indiana have gotten better.

There is an all-star game going to happen there in a few years. They've got great restaurants. They've also got a white castle. Yuck. That doesn't sound great. I don't know. I don't know if that's a foreshadow to the bad shit. We're going to talk about in Indiana right now.

But it's not good in Indiana, bro. During a loss to the Sacramento Kings last night, Page's assistant coach, Greg Foster, who went to Skyline High in Oakland, was a, was about to, look like he was verbally assaulting. a one of his own players Senator Goga Batadez after Goga

tells Greg Foster to sit the fuck down after hitting a three. What preceded that though, I mean, what happened before that was apparently Greg Foster was just like riding him on possesses telling him to do better and by

the final stats that Goga had, which was five points in 21 minutes, I think Greg Foster had a bit of a point but in any case Goga tells his coach to sit the fuck down after he hits the three and Greg Boster goes ham

has to be held back that basically just tells us all the shit that's going on in Indiana right now. It's a sit show it's a place it's a place it's not looking good from the outside looking in. They are a nine seed but there's a lot of controversy

right now in Indiana. This is a team that fired its coached Nate McMillan after giving him an extension, a coach that was pretty much a player favorite, and he's doing his thing now in Atlanta. But is this salvageable right now in Indiana right now? Salvageable, I don't know. When you get to this point,

and the media has gotten wind of all the infighting and the problems that Nate Bjorkren, once it gets to that point with the players, I don't know that it's salvageable, Logan. I really don't, because it gets really messy. And it's hard. Greg Foster from everything that I know about him,

and I've never played for him or a team that he's coached for. But I've seen his interaction with the players that he coaches. And I'm cool with Greg. So I speak to him when we're either playing against them or when I was in a staff that was playing against his teams. He seems to have a good rapport with everybody. There are things like this happen from time to time with an assistant coach, right? The same way I could tell you that between players on a team,

You know, we might get to beefing in a game, and we're fine afterwards. You know what I mean? Like, we've just, we're beefing because we're competing. So I want to give Goga the benefit of the doubt. I've also said to you that I'm a player who's had words with the coach, you know, that weren't great. That was behind closed doors, though. That I've rarely seen a coach tell, I mean, a player tell his own coach to sit the fuck down. And if he did, and if I did, he was certainly of the caliber of a player that would have registered more than five points in a couple boards in a game.

You typically don't get away with that and survive if those are the numbers that you put in. As a first round pick, as a first round pick. Yes, as a first round pick. So there's a lot that goes into the story. I think it speaks to the overall dysfunction that is, you know, the Pacers organization in the locker room right now. I don't think it just is those two. I do think that I think that this has to do more with the new. coach Nate in the environment that has been fostered in this environment.

You see what I did there, right? Well done. But they're a team that has been a respected organization and is by and large, you know, done pretty well for and market that can't really attract stars, you know, they've done really good. But they've had, they had a bit of a hiccup last year with Nate McMillan and it doesn't help that Nate is doing really well in Atlanta right now, you know, that the coach that you fired or dismissed or whatever the case after an extension, by the way, after you gave him

an extension, it doesn't help that you see him flourishing in another situation and you have so much infighting now. There was a report from Woj that says that Coach Nate, new coach Nate, has significant work to do with his relationships among players throughout the team and with some members of the organization. It hasn't been even a full year since you've taken this job. You can't have that much, you can't have these reports coming out at the first year. That's not, that's not productive, Rasha. It's not at all. There could be some hangover from the Nate McMillan departure in terms of players and their allegiances to Nate feeling like he was maybe done dirty in the situation. And that could be projected onto the new Nate, right? Like,

they might not be all his fault. I can't speak to that because I'm not there on a day to day. I don't know this is something that he's developed a poor culture and guys don't like it. Or if they're just like, yo, I really fuck with, you know, Nate McMillan and I don't really dig you. I've been in that situation before. I've lost coach. I lost Mike DeAntony. It was really, really near and dear to me and got a new coach.

Like I lost Jerry Sloan, who was really, really near and dear to me and got a new coach. It can be difficult to navigate that. An organization, though, can help out in terms of definitively letting you know, it doesn't matter what's going on here, bro. Nate Bjork, Gritten, is our guy. So you guys, you guys better get in line. You better cut the shit because this is the direction we're going in.

When you typically start to hear the grumblings like we're hearing now, it leads me to believe that the organization, the players themselves are getting mixed messages from the organization. Do you understand? Like, there could be some, Because I do want to get the source of the leak, right? Like where when it's this time in the season, where is it normally coming from, Roger? Well, when at this point in the season, it's typically, I mean, it could be coming from a player for sure or someone close to the player.

But this could be leaking from someone in the staff. It doesn't have to be like front office. This could be coming from a lot of different places. And again, it speaks to, you know, when I'm reading the tea leaves, it speaks to mixed messages being sent by the organization or some people in the organization. vying for said coach, and some people not really. So, for instance, our Cleveland Cavs team, the year I worked with the Cavs, right? Players didn't really love David Blatt. Like, they didn't.

Like, LeBron didn't. I had to have a conversation. I've told this story before with LeBron at the UCLA Pauley Pavilion or whatever we were practicing at, the men's gym, whatever it was, about, hey, you guys got play for him. You got to convince your teammates to play for him. If you can do that, then we as a staff can make a true assessment on like what David Blatt is capable of doing. Because I know you guys, I could see that you're not playing for him because you don't think

he could do it, right? But they could sense that we were fractured. That conversation spoke to us really not having David Blatt's back all the way. Do you know what I mean? Like there was some concern from us. It makes it really, really hard for a coach at that point to foster any kind of like environment or any kind of cultural environment that they would like to foster because they know the players, that is, that there's some uncertainty from up above.

So my point is, like, If Nate's your guy and you're the Pacers, have his back. Yeah, I think that speaks to more dysfunction, or not dysfunction, but the organization not necessarily having a pulse on the team that they have assembled, right? Because by and large, you're saying that, you know, all these guys have an allegiance, probably to former Nate, Nate McMillan, right? If they have that, then that's their guy. That's who they're going to play hard for.

You should see that as an organization and not fire him. after what has transpired, in my opinion. And especially if it doesn't help that, again, he's doing really well in Atlanta. Also, it doesn't help the fact that he did so much better than new Nate, and by and large, the same kind of situation. Miles Turner is out right now. Malcolm Brogden is out.

T.J. Warren is out for the season. You have injuries and you have all these things that is kind of the similar situation as last year when Nate McMillan helped the Indiana Pacers finish full. in the Eastern Conference. You got them 48 wins with a battered roster, and you are barely getting to the playoffs new Nate with the exact same roster in the situation.

It's not a good look. It's not a good look. And Nate McMillan shouldn't have been fired or let go or whatever the hell happened. Or Nate McMillan is a damn good coach in the NBA. We could get a bigger conversation as to why that happens deeper than we're probably going to go in this topper. But the point is he shouldn't have been fired.

Like that should not have happened. Yeah. Well, if you have to guess, and we'll end it on this and get to the next subject. Do you think that new Nate ends the season? Yeah, because it's like two weeks. Does he, is he coaching next season? No.

I don't believe so either. I think that's the verdict. He has lost the team and he's potentially getting leaks from his staff and organization. It's not going to happen. One other thing I want to get to before we get to in his canter, who was great, by the way. I want to get into play and talk. My OG, J.A. Adande. had an interesting tweet

in regards to the playing game. He said, if the playing ends up costing the NBA, the Lakers and the Celtics for the playoffs, you've got to figure out, you've got to figure there will be consequences. Maybe not lost jobs, but that format would change.

The playing is making the regular season more interesting, but if it ends up doing so at the expense of the playoffs, it's a net loss. I mean, I think points were made, right? I mean, in the grand scheme of things, points were made. about this pre-pod, and you had some takes about this. Now, both the Celtics and the Lakers are

near the bottom of their respective conferences. Still in playoff contention, but near the bottom. The Lakers are currently sixth. They are a half game above the Portland Trailblowers for six in the Western Conference. The Boston Celtics are tied for six in the Easter Conference. Both have an opportunity and could play in the playing tournament, but they could risk losing. there's a world where they get knocked out before the playoffs even begin. Raja, does J.A. have a point? And if that is the case that the Celtics and Lakers fumble the bag, whose fault is it?

Yeah, J.A. has a point. J.A. has a friend of mine, too. He does great work. Like, there's definitely a point there. And I guess I would ask the question, what are we doing here? Is this competitive sport, right? Because you have that on one hand. Right? Or is this entertainment? Right. And if you're going to tell me it's entertainment,

and I co-sign, you got to have the, Lakers, you got to have the Celtics, you need LeBron and AD, you have to have those major brand, you need it. It's entertainment, right? But if it's purely competitive sport, if they don't make it, they're not supposed to be there. That's, it's what it is. Like, you had a playing tournament, you had every opportunity, you had, I don't know

how many games are going to wind up playing this year because it was, you know, whatever. But how, you had the whole season and a playing tournament to make it and to win a game. point if you're six or seven, you'd have to win one game or two games to get in. If you can't do that, then you don't deserve to be in that. So then we start getting into like, is this some kind of hybrid thing? Like we're, we're competitive sport, but we are, but we're also entertainment, which is the area I think the NBA kind of operates in anyway. But the bottom line is, though, unless you're just going to start penciling in all of the stars, like, okay, LeBron's going to be in the playoffs this year, we're going to Janice in the playoffs this year, we'll put

Luca into playoffs, Dame Lillard, and what the fuck are we doing? I completely agree with you. And also if you're LeBron James and AD and Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, if you're all these people and you're really good, then fucking get the playoffs. Win the games, man. Win the one game you need to win to get into fucking playoffs. Like, that's it. And that's all.

I feel, I think the playing game is great. And I think the NBA has this thing where it does have to keep reinventing itself. Right. And there was a lot of innovation, I think, in the 90s and even in the, you know, the 70s, 80s and 90s. There was a lot of innovation you put in the dunk contest. You put in a three-point contest. It's a lot around All-Star, right? There hasn't been much change since then, right?

There hasn't been much. We've kind of just been resting on those laurels. I think the last major change was the playoff format in the first round going from five to seven games was like a big change. That was a big deal. But I think now, like, it's fucking change it, man. Let's reinvent. Let's do something, man. Let's fucking do it.

The playing game is great. We saw how entertaining it was for that to happen. I don't have a problem with it. You know how you figure out the playing game or you figure it out and you fucking win? And either you win in a playing game or you don't or you win enough to where you doesn't even fucking matter. That's it. Don't be in sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth or tenth. Yeah.

Don't do that. And there's luck involved in that. I'm sorry you got injured LeBron. I'm really sorry. I'm sorry that it didn't work out, Luca. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about all that thing. But again, that's the game.

Everyone, that derails. I love LeBron. I'm, you know what I mean? Like, this isn't a, I think they'll be in the playoffs. And also, I know why he said all that stuff. I know why he said all that stuff. Absolutely. But if you were to lose, if you were to tell me it's not fair, you know, we got to be in the

playoff, we lost, you know, 25 games of injury. Otherwise, we'd be in third. Then we're dealing in the, if we're a fifth conversation that we always have. And we would all be lit. And we'd all be lit. Like how many people are going to say I played on a team, boy, if we hadn't lost in Mori Stademeyer that year, boy, we would have been, we all could say that.

That's not what we're dealing in. We're dealing in wins and losses, bro. Yeah, man. And it is unfortunate that their injuries and stannuating circumstances that might cause you. If Tim Thomas didn't hit that lucky-ass shot in 2006, we might have had the greatest upset of all time, you know? But it was a fifth. Chill, bro.

Chill, dope. Chill, hey, we talked about this the other day. Last weekend was like the anniversary of that shot. Kobe made like that. It was a stupid shot. Smush Parker got to steal. It was game one. We were trying to ice it. Steve turned it over. Bro, you guys made every possible mistake in a season where you guys didn't really make mistakes like that. It was just meant to be the euro that Kobe made on me to get that bucket was so nasty. And then the shot was ridiculous. He threw that to the top of the damn there. Yeah, because Boo Boo came over with the two hands trying to block it. That was an incredible shot.

I think that was more difficult than the fade away. Yeah, that shot. But, I mean, the Euro and the finish were super cold. But I found myself, like, to the point you just made about, if we had made the shot. Like, I wanted to be the dude on Instagram. Like, yeah, that shit was cool, but you lost. Yeah.

I didn't do it. Like, Kobe's my dude and shit. I ain't do it. But, like, I'm like, the shot was phenomenal. You lost the series. But the thing is the if and all this stuff, it doesn't matter, man. Like, it doesn't matter in the history books. Nobody, only like real basketball aficionados really just say that shit.

And when you say that to the common man or woman or whatever, would you say that to them on the street like, oh, they would have won. If this would have happened, they're going to be like, who cares? They're not going to give a fuck. No one cares about this stuff. Like, I think my, so what I say all that to say, man, just win. It's not going to win. Just win.

And Logan, I'll take it. Let me take it a step further because I agree with everything you just said. But me, right? I am tuned in more to more games. Like this time of year, I would watch a game, right? Like, I'd sit down and I'd watch a game. I find myself, you know, flipping through now, trying to see what all of these teams

that have opportunities down the stretch. Like, I'm more engaged with the game because of the tournament. This is usually a dead period. This is usually a dead period where, you know, maybe there's three teams trying to figure it out. Maybe the team is just trying to get a one seed, but they're not really sure because they know they're better than the first round opponent they're going to face.

They know they're going to win. And then at the bottom, you see like maybe a couple teams that are trying to get that eighth seed, but it's still like they're still trying to teeter like, should we tank maybe? I don't know. Maybe we have. I don't know. But now I feel like every, the playoffs have started a couple weeks earlier, right? Because you're trying, there's so much anticipation in these last couple of games because there's a chances for more teams.

And I can dig it, man. I can dig it. Just make sure that the best teams wind up being the best teams and they get to, the top half of the bracket or even if they don't, then it's more entertaining on the backhand. So my message to everyone is please win. As a, you know, as a childhood

Laker fan, and my message to the Lakers is please win. Please win. You know? That's all it is. All right. Let's get this, let's, let's set this in this cancer interview up, which was really good. We talked about the playing game and

the Blazers pursuit of said playing game. I believe They beat the breaks off of Cleveland last night. Yeah, they did. I mean, who's not being the breaks off of Cleveland? Yeah. And it's had unique perspective on a bunch of great guards. He's been blessed to play with a bunch of great, like, Hall of Fame point guards.

It was pretty cool to hear his accounts of that, Carmelo. Yeah, it was good. And then we also got into his activism, which was a very sobering conversation around him. I just, I mean, you're going to hear it on the pod, but it was just, it was one of those moments, man. And this was a great interview and check it out. Real Ones. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell. We have a former teammate of Rodgers in the building. Roger, go ahead and introduce this guy. You were very excited to have him on the game on a Zoom. Go ahead. Yeah, this is one of the best offensive rebounders. I can say that in the game today.

Huge part of the Portland Trailblazers success this season. Human rights advocate. one of my favorite rooks of all time. I had him when he was young. This is Ennis. Cantor is joining the pod. Thanks for coming on. Brother, how are you, man?

Thank you for having me, man. I appreciate how you all doing. We're good. We're good. Logan, let me just, let me start.

I like to start with something. Ennis, do you remember, like most people don't know this about you, but your body at this point in your career is completely transformed for when you came into the league. I don't know that you remember the story

of telling me what you ate, like, I remember on a day in Utah. Logan, this man could, he could really, really eat, man. And so were you eating? I mean, maybe it was like, you know, the first time you're coming in the league,

you know, you have no routine. You know, you're pretty much like just eating whatever, you know, you found me at the table. So like for me, like the breakfast for me was a lot of chocolate chip pancakes, a lot of waffles, a lot of cereal. And it was a game day, too. and my rookie duty was to bring donuts to everyone, right? Even when we were on the road game.

So Jefferson made me bring donuts for everyone. So like after breakfast, I'm eating the breakfast and going upstairs and started doing donuts all day. It was terrible. Listen, it was very bad. And then, like, before the game, I was eating cheeseburger and fries. He said three. Yeah, he said three.

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. And then before the game, they stopped doing it. but like there was like a huge bag of popcorn for everyone. So like it was like me, you know, you remember Jeremy, Alex, and everyone was just sitting. And because we were rookies, so going there, going to the gym really early. So we had nothing to do.

You know, we're just sitting there and just eating popcorn all day. That sounds like a vibe. Why are you hating, Roger? No, no, no, no, not hating at all. I just, it was, I remember asking him one day. It was sitting around. I think I was within earshot. And he was describing to somebody like what he had eaten.

Someone had asked him. And I was like, oh, wow. And then postgame, like in Salt Lake, there's only a few options. And so his post games were pretty epic, too. Do you remember? So I know Al was like, Al Jefferson was one of your rooks. But you gravitated towards another dude who was on our team that year who really kind of claimed you as a rook. Do you remember who that was?

Hold on. Let me hold on. Wait a second. He was a point guard from New York. You guys had a really interesting bond. It came from the pace. There was Jamal Tinsley. You remember Jamal Tinsley?

Yes. Jamal had a soft spot for Ennis. It was a weird pairing. Alan Ennis made sense. Two Biggs. You know, we're going to kind of mentor you and teach you. But Jamal and Ennis had a weird bond, man.

It was like he claimed him as a rook. It was weird because he took care of me really well, man. Because whenever we went, we were going to Miami, we were going to like different cities. Like he always took me. with him. You know, he was always, like, showing me around. We were going out together and stuff. He was a good dude, man. I missed that guy a lot. Yeah, Jamal was a good doing, bro. That's awesome, bro. That's what's up, man. I love when Browser starts the pod, and especially

when it's a former teammate, because he gets into his bag. He gets really excited and he just, it's really great. You know, looking back is like, I mean, they hate me a lot right now. Like, we are looking at our rookies. They have, they have nothing to do, you know? But like, I look at that, I look at that year. I mean, I had an amazing time, man. But like the only thing like, you know, just really like was tough, they made me sign a contract that, you know, every time I forget to bring donuts, I had to pay $500 fine every time. Because I forgot to bring donuts one time, man, one time. When did you do this? What happened? What happened? What happened? I mean, I'm in a row. Like, even on the road, I had to take a cap and go get like a donut somewhere.

You know? Because, like, I forget to bring donuts one time. And Al got so pissed. And I remember Gordon Haverd made me sign a contract. You know, every time I forget to bring donuts, I had to, you know, pay $500 fine. But from that day forward, as a rookie, you're not going to,

you don't want to pay $5,000 fine, you know? I know. So going forward, I never forget it, no. You got to hold people accountable, Logan. That's how they don't forget no more, man. Well, that was my best year, man. I'll be like, this ain't legally minding. Y'all got to be messed up.

Forget y'all 500 hours. Then I'll be out the league. Man, yo, it's funny because you're playing Portland now, and now you're talking about donuts, bro. And Blue Star donuts is so good. It's so good. Who are the donuts and Blue Star, yeah? I remember we were, I was covering the Warriors when you guys were,

during the conference finals, we had a week in Portland. Bro, I killed a whole thing of Blue Star. Yeah. Portland is a great restaurant city. It's just overall a great. But speaking of Portland, you guys are in the thick of the playoff race right now. You guys, at the moment, you are currently in a hotel room in Cleveland at this very moment. You guys are a game back at a Lakers.

It's been a weird season for you guys. But how's it been right now down the stretch? How are you guys approaching every game as the season is about to come to a close? I mean, lucky that it was a very weird. tough season for us. I mean, a lot of players got hurt. You know, CJ went out, whatever games, and NERC went down. It broke his hand and stuff.

So it was a really tough game, it's a tough season for us. But I think, you know, obviously when you have like players like, you know, mellow and, you know, just dame on your side and just game just becoming automatically so easy, you know, when you have leaders like that in a locker room, it definitely make a huge change. But like you said, man, we are like half game behind the Lakers in Dallas. So we really don't want to play that tournament. And really try to push that beat at the top six, you know, pick. So we can just, you know, get in that playoff race.

So that's something, and it's like, you know, I was going to ask you that. You kind of answered it already. But that's something you guys are really cognizant about. That's a conversation in the locker room. Like, we need to get in. We're trying to avoid this playoff at all costs. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like LeBron said, I don't know who invented that tournament.

We hated it. Everybody hates it. No, no, Enis, Enis. Enis. I know you say you hate it and you guys do. Such and such should be fired for doing that. I know there's a, there's a section of the league of that. But me and Raja are on the same as like, yo, man, it's entertaining.

It's great. It's fun. But I don't know. Would you be saying that if you guys were a two seed instead of a seven seed right now, right? If you guys are, because I would be like, oh, man, this is very entertaining. Are you, is a bit of this you guys saying, forget the playing game because we are in, we could be playing in the playing tournament? Is that, you think it's that or do you think it's, it's, it's overall, it should be taken out?

I mean, for sure, it is entertaining. And it's really good for the league, too. You know, it's extra games. So it's going to bring extra money, I guess, to the league. But, like, I think it's, I don't like, I'll be honest with it. And I'm sure, like, you go around and ask a lot of the people, they don't like it. You know, because it's, I don't know, man, it's tough because, like, if you're a seven and eight seed, if you lose, like, in that tournament, one or two games, you automatically out.

You know, I don't do a playoff race. But that's what the league brought it to us. I guess we got to roll with it. No, that's tough, though, because, you know, and this, you know, guys are used to, if you've done enough to get into six, seven or eight, you're in, right? So anybody in six, seven and eight is going to be like, this sucks. anybody in 9 and 10 is probably like, yo, yes, we're for that. Exactly.

And anyone above that doesn't give two shits. But it's tough because you're used to pouring heart and soul into trying to secure a playoff spot and feeling really secure if you have it, right? Not it being in jeopardy. So I can understand it. Have you seen a change in just how teams play now because there is a playing tournament? Because we know, I know you've seen this in the league. During the backstress of this season, there are some teams that are like, okay, we're

shutting people down. We're getting ready for next year. This isn't our year this year. You know, now you give a few more spots. A few more teams have a chance to get in. Have you seen a change in how teams play down the stretch? I think so because like now and now, I mean, you see a lot of, I don't want to give any names out there, but there's so many teams who are tanking

just because of they were an eight, nine, whatever seat. But then, you know, especially like what changes like the players, especially like last seven, eight games, even if they hurt, they want to go out there and play because they don't want to, you know, just play that tournament. They want to be in the top six pick whatever, but it did change a lot, yes. Do you guys, and it's like there's been a little rumbling in the media in regards to like, you know, Terry Stotz and the job there in Portland? Not that you guys have anything to do with a coaching decision or anything like that, but do you feel any internal pressure as a group to take that kind of next step into playoff success?

Is that anything that has crept into your locker room or you guys block all that noise out? I mean, I think like right now, like we're trying to block all the noise out, you know, because right now we just know that it's us against everyone else. It's all about, you know, what can we do together to just go out there and win a game. So, I mean, there's going to be so many talks out there. But if you ask any players, you know, we love Terry and his coaching staff to death, you know. Sure. And so we don't really care about what the media or other people.

folks about our focus, just, you know, just go out there and try to do our best to win at championship again. And how do you, you know, we talk about Portland, me and Rajah all the time. It's just, it's, it seems like a Portland Trailblazer season normal where you guys are playing well, but there's, there's skids that end up having maybe an injury or something like that. I know you guys log Zach Collins a couple years ago at an opportune time. You've lost, you referenced, you know, the injuries. that you guys have had, how do you keep that focus and still be like, okay, you know, we can win this thing. We can still do some, make some noise because, you know, I see last, you know, early last month

or late last month, you guys are, you know, going to losing streak of people are like, oh, man, Portland, what's going on with Portland? And now you guys go on a, you guys won four of your last five. And now you guys are in contention as a seventh seed. How do you keep that focus when you guys are so up and down throughout the season like this? I mean, you know what we can't, like, it'll be, We know what we can do. We know what we are capable of. You know, like I said, again, it's just, we just have to avoid all this, you know, distraction out

and just for focus on us. And I think it's a really good opportunity. When you play players like, you know, Damon's DJ and Mello, you know, just automatically games become very easy. These are the type of players that make themselves better and make everybody better around them. I feel like that's what they're really special.

I mean, especially, but I don't want to, but I make excuse about, you know, the injuries and all that stuff. But it's real. They are there. But I think the only thing we got to do is just, hey, you know, just getting that six or whatever seat and just, you know, start a play of healthy. Because I know once we are like 100% healthy,

I think we can just definitely, you know, our goal should be a championship. How much did you guys celebrate or, or Hayes, Mello, after joining the top? 10 scored scoring club. And it's interesting to me, and it's because you will play during the time when Carmelo was the focal point of an offense. You know what I'm saying?

And then I've got to give him a lot of credit. Like he's really kind of reinvented himself in a new role for you guys. Maybe talk to me about that too. Like how cool was it? Did you guys celebrate it? And his adjustment and the role he plays for you guys now with the Blazers. I think what he's doing for our team is amazing. Obviously top 10 player and he's willing to come off the bench.

just unbelievable that shows up just what kind of player he's and how much he wants to win, you know? And obviously we did celebrate it, not outside because we cannot really do anything outside, but just like we did celebrate it in a locker room. But I think one thing about Melo, man, I mean, obviously people always talk about how good about a player he's on the court, but like off the court, man, he did this is just unbelievable. He always talked to his rookies and, you know, just try to help the young guys and stuff. But, um, hey, one of the, day I'm gonna be like, hey, to my grandkids, I play with Mello, you know. I even like, I remember it was during the game and I asked DJ as a DJ, can you ask

Melo see if he's going to invite me to his Hall of Fame speech? And he actually asked him and he said, okay, I was super excited. But no, man, it's really nice to seem that he always breaks this, you know, milestones and break records and stuff. Go for him. I'm lightly offended, Logan. I'm going to keep it a buck. And this is not going to tell his grandkids.

that he played with Roger Bell. I'm really, lightweight, I'm offended. I mean, I'm not going to tell my grandkids I did a podcast for Roger Joe. So,

when you talk about Melo, there was a clip at the end of the, at the end of the game when he did, you know, reached that milestone where he says,

you know, he didn't think he was going to be in the league two years ago. Didn't think he was going to do this and he reinvented himself, but he did it in his own way. Is there a bit of, respect in the locker room from about that for you guys where you know mellow has reinvented himself

but he in a lot of ways has stayed true to you know what he believes in his convictions but it's seems like it's helping in this way how do you how do you guys feel about how mellow is his journey so far you know me and him works out in the same place in uh off season in new york and i see him i was seeing him working every day you know i was working like he was a rookie you know he was going not there full sweats. And I think, you know, one thing, you know, about bottom, just, you know, he just didn't give up. And I cannot believe that this, this man was out of the league for a year.

You know, it shocked every, everyone. I'm like, how, you know? It's like, for him, it's just like, whenever he's out there, it's like a muscle memory, you know, his moves and his shots and everything he does on the court. He's like, unbelievable. You know, this guy gets thinking, can get, is he's. still a walking bucket. But I think, you know, just one thing that I think is going to be example for many young

guys that he just didn't give up. He was 35, 36, and he was out of the league. And this guy just did not give up. And he just pushed through it. And now look at him. You know, he's in top 10. Yeah. How did you feel when you were in that clip?

Because you were, he were standing right there, right? You were standing right in front of him. Was that like, was it, how did that feel to hear him say? You know, I did it my way. I've gone through this. I didn't think I was going to be here. What were those words like when you were hearing him say that? Inspiring.

Inspiring. You know, that's like, wow. You know, this guy, when he was like, he was 35, whatever, he just didn't give up. He pushed it through it and he did basically get in the same shape. And now, I mean, every time you just seem like, I mean, obviously, you know, the fans don't see it. But he is the last one living on the gym still.

You know, like whenever we have a practice. he always stays extra and get us shots up and everything. And I think that definitely that speech was inspired so many people. I got two questions, Logan, so allow me real quick. Ennis, I want to ask you, I don't want you to throw shade at anybody. But I was looking, you know, I was checking out your career. And you do what you do just about everywhere you go. And then there's one year where there's a pretty significant dip in your production.

And that was the year you spent in Boston. What was it about that year? I ain't asking you to talk shit about nobody or anything. It just didn't fit or like it was just a, you know? No, I think it was just the role that, you know, the coach gives, you know. I mean, he told me, you know, we're just going to play you if we have to guard a real big man, like Embed or Yolkitch or, you know, like Stephen Adams or someone. I'm like, hey, you know, this is my ninth year in a league.

I'm going to try to do what, you know, what you tell me to do. You know, I cannot be selfish at this point of my. career and with the Celtics, we were, you know, just going for a championship. So I'm like, you know, I can just like be a big pouty and just stop crying about it and just stop, you know, just bringing negative energy or I can just see the big picture. You know, I just say, hey, okay, right now this is what coach telling me to do. He's only going to play me when we play against the real big men, you know? And then I was like, sure. I mean, whatever is, obviously, it was, uh, that was point.

means, you know, every player wants to play 35, 40 minutes. You know, every play wants to get some big roles. But I was like, you know what? Right now, this is what coach telling me to do, so I'm just going to roll with it. That's what I forgot my second question. Sorry. Oh, good job.

You know, he's learning. He's learning, and he's learning. He's learning. I want to get back to Portland for a quick second. Fan favorite of the show, a very big favorite of the show, at least for me, Damien Lillard, is a real one. And somebody that, you know, in an age where there's a lot of superstar movement, he is a guy that has consistently said, I'm going to stay at one in one place. And with conviction that you actually believe him, right?

What does that do for teammates around him, right? Because we know, like, you're a guy that's on the last year of your deal. And, you know, I don't know if that, you know, I don't know if that means as much to you. But, like, how does that feel as a teammate when you see, you know, you hear that a guy is going to say. stay somewhere long term. Does that help with your plans? Does that help with anything? And overall, how does that feel? For sure. I mean, I think first in the name comes from my mind, the first word is loyalty. I mean, his loyalty is, I mean, I just unbelievable. You know, I think, you know, there are so many teams, like, especially when I were when I was about to, you know, somewhat

important, that was the one thing that, you know, just the people were telling me, you know, if you go there, you'll know that, you know, they're not going to thank. You know, they're going to, just go for a championship every year. And then I think that having guy like Dame also says CJ too, but having a guy like the thing, you're going out there to try to win a championship every year. So I'm like, you know what? I think that's like the best decision for me.

And I think once in the bottom, like I said, he makes himself better and he makes everybody better around. I mean, not just the players, but the organization, the city, the state. So I think, you know, he's definitely one of the real ones out there. Um, he is a real one. So is C.J. McCullum. He's a real one in terms. And so I'm asking you, this isn't, this isn't like, I know they're really good friends and

they got a great relationship. But I also know what it's like to be in a locker room with like really good players and the shit talking that takes place. Do they ever get to talking shit about who has more in their bag? Because they both have a phenomenal, like, they both get buckets. And it's like, so do they ever get into it, like, having fun with each other about who's got more shit in their bag? You know, I play

with many, you know, superstars. Like, many superstars do it was like Katie and Russ, Tatum and Brown, CJ and Dame, and all that stuff, you know, but no. You know, that they always, you know, just complimented each other. And they'm always trying to look for him to make

him a better player and a person. So I was like, I actually was just watching that what you said was really close. I'm like, you know what? I mean, Dave Boat is like one of the, you know, top players in the league. So I'm just want to, like, see, like, if they're ever, like, you know, it could be a jealousy, it could be this and that. But no, never.

That's great. You know, listen, I watch, like, Amari and tricks in fun, having fun with each other, right? Like, you know, you kind of get. Let me ask you about Russ, though, because Russ has been in the news, like, a little lately. With his historic, like, triple double pace and everything like that. I am, and we are, I believe Logan is in lockstep with me. I am a Russ fan, bro. I will defend Russ, like, tooth and nail.

How dope is he is a teammate? Hey, I said this many times he's definitely one of the best team that I had man. He's actually, like, people don't see that side of him because he always like screams and yells and try to get people on their skin and stuff. But like, no, man, he's actually a really good dude. I mean, he cares about his teammates for him. I mean, that's just personality. You know, like there's some players in the league just, all they care about it is just going to war

with their brothers. You know, I remember, you know, when I get to, okay C, I was in the league for like four or five years. And I remember, you know, I was going out there and not saying hi to other players before the game. And one time you saw it, right, he turned around and started yelling at me, start cussing at me. I'm like, what do you do, man? You're about to go to war.

And now you're talking to this player, that player. I mean, that's just mentality, you know, but I think he's definitely one of the best things I had. you were talking you were in Oklahoma City with Russ and I think this is something that that has kind of followed you throughout your career and it's you spicy man like you you you get it you get at people you get at people's faces sometimes you you you hear about oh you used to okay well during the Oklahoma City time when when uh Kevin left Russ you were like you you you you kind of popped off on the twit you know you were you were you were talking real spicy where does this come from in an age where we are um you know we're like all about keeping relationships

going and keeping things going why why were you and your youth scorched earth why why that i think that's the one thing that russ taught me i mean it doesn't like that that was the mental that he i learned from him i mean it doesn't matter if it if it is your brother You know, it's us against everyone, you know? So, like, it doesn't matter. I'm playing against my brother. I'm playing against someone that I played with many years. I don't care.

And I'm just going to go out there and just, after the game, we can be friends. We can't go to dinner. We can hang out. But before the game, man, or during the game, we got no friends. Just we are not friends. We are not talking. Don't say hi to me.

I'm not going to say hi to you. You know, that's the mentality that Ross taught, I think, everyone around him. That's why I fuck with Russ, though. I'm telling you, there are so many dudes that will come up to you at the jump ball and try to, like, get your guard down and pleasantries, like, all of this shit. Like, ain't nobody there for that. We're there to get it popping. And that's why I mess with Russ. Yeah.

Did it, especially around that time, did it, did it hurt for, to see that breakup where, you guys were, you guys took the 73 and nine warriors to the brink, right? And so to see Kevin leave and then to be on, you know, to just, did that, would that come out of hurt from you guys when you were saying that? What did that feel like when he did leave when Kevin left? I mean, because we were so close that year. And, you know, it was obviously a huge part of our family. And obviously when he left, and we were all set because that year we made a conference finals. And then obviously we lost, you know, 4-4-3. They came back and beat us four three.

And we like, listen, we know what we can do. Let's do it again next year. You know, let's come back and just do it all next year. But I think once we saw the news, it definitely broke everyone's heart, you know. Did you know he was going to leave? Did you know he was going to leave or did you expect him to stay? We had no idea. I talked to many planes.

We had no idea. But I mean, in the end, that's his life. That's his career. Obviously, we're not going to. We can't say anything about it. But obviously, definitely it broke. everyone's card. Now, we get that it was hurt,

but did you think that the return game was a little much, was just a little much? I know there was a lot of hurt in Oklahoma City, but that was a lot. That was a lot in us. Did you think it was a little much on how he was, and it's time out. Time out.

Time out. I'm going to interject here. You have to know, you need some backstory on this. You need a little bit of context with this. This is, he is a Kevin Durant buddy. Like,

he's part of the KD team, bro. So he's... Who me? Yes. Who me? Yes. I'm part of the Kevin D. Yes. So that's where this is coming, though. All right. If I am, why I ain't getting shit from him? How about that? Exactly. If I am, then now, exactly. So... All right. It's a fair question because I just asked also why he's fucking left. Is it good? Is it, was it fucked up that he left? And now I'm like, yo, was it a little bit? I'm playing both sides like you do, Roger all the time.

You ain't get your Aunt Pearls, bro? Come on, bro. I've been too many I've been to many conference finals and that game was definitely more wildest more crazier than any game I've ever

attend to was a little too much maybe because all the cupcakes stuff whatever all the signs and everything was crazy but I mean he still dropped like 30 something points

you know there's no way get into his head I mean he's going to drop you know what he wants to drop but it was wild man it was a game

that we are not We're definitely not going to forget ever. I mean, Russ got into two in the middle of the court. I'm like, this is going to be wild. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was crazy.

I mean, I think they're cool now, but were they estranged during that time? Was it like, was it real befriend when that happened at that first game? Or was it more of those on the court type thing? What was it? I don't, you know, like, they always, I mean, whenever they played, they always respected each other a lot, you know? But I think it was just like the here moment of the, you know, is obviously the game, what happened on the corner and stuff.

So I don't think they have something like real. See, right? And this can't answer that. I'm going to answer that. The boys were beefing, bro. They were beefing. I'm trying for what I'm on what I said. I can respect that.

I've been on the other side of the mic. I know you can't say shit. They were beefing. Roger, do you have a beef with Kobe Bryant? No, no, no, no. It's all right. What side of the wave were you on?

Were you on Portland at the time? Like, we were talking about Russ. We're talking about Dame, like the big shot, like in Portland when when, when Dame hit it. I was with Portland. I was with Portland, yeah? 2019. That was a wild moment, too. How tough was that?

Man, I mean, this guy with one shot, he broke the whole team. Because after that, after that shot, PG left, Ross left, Stephen Adams left. The whole organization just started to break down and they decided to go young. I mean, you know, first time I joined the team. I walk in the gym, I'm like, this guy working on that shot. I'm like, what is he doing? You know, and then the playoffs started. Obviously, he started making

those shots. I'm like, everybody was shocked. That's why PG went out there and said it's a bad shot. It's a bad shot for everyone else, but not for Dane. He actually worked on that shot. And, hey, he makes him. That's why, like, whenever we played together, he told me

to set a pick and a half court, you know, because he takes one ball and that ball's going out. So he tells you to come get that high screen and roll. He wants it at half court. Half court. Because if a big, big cannot go up, bigs are not comfortable going down. There's no, or he's going to spit it and go to the life. There is no way anyone can go on that high. So if you get a good pick, it's over. He's just going to take one dribble. And that was going out. So he just created even more space. Yeah, that's what's up. All right. Time to get to the baggage

claim. We'll be right back. What was that season like that 2019 season? Like, Because we talk about the Blazers historically. This was the closest that Dame has gotten to finals, right? And I remember you guys that you guys won that series and went on against the Warriors. We're playing, you know, you guys had a lead in every game of that Western Conference finals, right? What did that, what was that season like for you? And the end in the way you guys ended? Was that, was that hard for Dame and by comparison you, by extension?

It was hard. I mean, that year we lost NERC. You know, nerve broke us foot. So we didn't really have nerve. So if we had nerve, we would definitely, you know, just going for a champion. And we were still going for a championship. But, no, it was everybody was really for a focus, man, because there was so many talks out there,

was saying, like, you know, if Porta never going to be that good, is Porta never be a championship contender? And Dame and CJ just took it personal. You know, they were in a different level. OCC series, Denver series. And even Golden State Series, we were up like every game, like you said, but they just, you know, they just came back and, yes.

Does Dame get a little extra hype to play against the Warriors and go back to the Bay? Do you feel like a bit of like when he's on that Bay Area trip? Because if it ends right now, it's 7-8, like that's the matchup, Logan. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, he plays with edge and extra with every game, but I think I'm sure, like, everyone wants to play in front of the home crowd. So, yeah, I guess so.

The answer is yes again. I will speak for Ennis. Yes, he gets hype. Yes, he gets hype to go home. And yes, he wants to bust Jeff Curry's ass. Yes. Exactly. For sure.

I'm just saying, thank you, Roger. Thank you. This is journalist, Raja. We have helped groom him into somebody. It's like, yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking saying. One thing I do want to ask, just in terms of your play and, you know, the rep that people get, right? I reference to Kobe Roger Bell thing.

It's unfair rep because Roger had a decent career in the league, right? But see, like, I can't even ask a question because he's laughing. The marginalization of my career is such slander, bro. Like, it's so. I said it was just unwarred. I said you had a really good career. No, you did not. No, you didn't say that.

You said he had a little decent career. That's what you said. All right, you had a really good career. Whatever. Anyway. So when I think about narratives, I think about with you, there's always a narrative of defense, right? There's always that narrative of like you not being able to play it, right? Is that, do you think that that comes from a certain place and do you think that that narrative is unfair to you?

Where every time, you know, even if you go on Twitter and when you come on the floor, there's this, this is in his counter. And do you, I want to give you the floor to speak your piece on that because I'd imagine it's frustrating. I mean, I think, look, like I said again, so many, like, a lot of the fans don't see it because after I, like, I mean, I try not to go on Twitter too much, especially right after the games. Right. Because, like, the fans just, like, they have nothing to do. They just see on their mom's basement and just Twitter in all kinds of crazy stuff. You know what I mean? But, I mean, obviously, they're friends.

You got to respect it. But I think so many of the things, like, I always see, like, okay, why are you? out up on their picking rolls. Why are you this? Why are this? Many of it is game plan. You know, I cannot just break the game plan. You know, like the OCC.

So I said, okay, C, Golden Setset series. Our first two game, you know, like our game plan was just beat the back on picking rolls. And I was like, going to Twitter after the game, everybody's like, why are you, you know, that on picking up? And then obviously we changed again plan later on.

But like, I think, you know, one thing you has to do is just mentality and just trust and communication. Defense is all about trust and communicate. So we just got to, you know, just do a better job. There is no excuse on their defense. Now you brought up a great point that I really want to explore

with two NBA players on this podcast. It is fans who have never played, have never coached, have never done any of these things, right? Who are literally some are bloggers, some are like people who haven't even been around, right? Who have not been in a long room, who haven't even seen sets, but they speak on authority about NBA games and NBA.

Ennis, you need to step up. You need to do this on a level. How does that feel for you guys to hear that when, you know, we haven't played and, like, also we haven't even, like, we watched a couple YouTube tutorials on defense and spacing? What does that feel like as a player? I'm going to ask us for both of you guys.

Starting with Ennis and let's go to Raj. What do you think about it? You go have first. You go have first. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'll be the first.

No, it's, I'm not even going to front. Like, it's, it's frustrating at times and infuriating, like, if you are tuning in to what people are saying. Because, you know, the reality is, and I'll just, let me talk about Ennis right now. While the defense might not be his quote-unquote calling card. The man can play defense. Like, what the hell are you talking about? Like, he's one of the best basketball players on the planet. So anyone's saying that, you know what I mean?

There is an element of like you're out of your damn mind. You know, of course I can play defense. I wouldn't be here if I can't play defense. Now, my calling card might be something else, but that doesn't mean I can't do the other thing. And I was always kind of fascinated by that as a player. Like, just because you're known like for me as a defender, people will still talk about me as if I couldn't shoot a basketball.

Like all I could do was defend. And, you know, I was a career 40% three-point shooter led the league one year. Not that I'm throwing a resume, Like, if you do one thing, you can't do the other, right? Like, it's one or the other. And I always found that, you know, really, really interested and frustrating at times. For sure, man, I agree with them. I definitely frustrating because, I mean, like you said, sometimes they didn't even play basketball.

All they do is just watch basketball and just try to comment on how this guy should play or how that guy should be defend whatever. But I think you just have to like, you know, my first few years, he was affecting me a lot. And obviously, as a young guy, you don't know any better. And obviously just going on Twitter and see what people are saying and stuff. And it actually affects your game. But then I'm like, you know what? I mean, these people, you know, never seen a basketball coming their life.

You know, so you cannot just let them get into your head. I remember, you know, you know, even with, you know, sometimes with this podcast and, you know, and being as a, you know, being a media member, there's still people that are saying like, oh, man, you suck at podcasting. You suck at, like, writing and things like this. and like, what are you doing? You should have did this. And it's, it can be frustrating when you look at it. And it can be, you know, it can affect you. My question to you is, what was a moment where early in your career where you did look

at that stuff and a game where it probably did affect you? Because that's human nature, man. Like normal people don't have thousands of people telling them they suck at their job, you know, whether they do or not. But how does that feel for you when you have to block it out? because it's hard to tell somebody, block all that stuff out when thousands of people are telling you,

you suck. It's not cool. It's definitely not cool. It actually affects your game because you stop thinking about what other people were saying and you really don't want to keep, make him happy.

You don't really forget what coaches want you to do. You just want to make the fans happy so they won't talk, you know, trash about you. So it's like it didn't affect me a lot. I was like, I was just skipped out of my. myself, like, am I good enough?

Am I ever going to play in this league, like, long enough? Or am I just going to make it? Am I going to get another contract? So, always back on your head is like, you question yourself. And obviously, it affects your game. It keeps you awake all night, you know? But then I'm like, you know, after like, that's why I try to talk to the, you know, the rookies coming in the league is like, do not check Twitter.

Do not check social media after the game. Just give it a day or two. Because especially if you're like a first round pick, but obviously they expect you to do a lot. So I'm like, dude, listen, man, you know, just keep getting better, keep enjoying it. You know, my rookie season, I had an amazing time. I met with so many bad people, and I learned a lot. So I'm like, I think you just have to be able to avoid all this outside

and just focus on how you're going to get better. Roger, do you think it's different for his generation in terms of like immediate, just immediate thing. You would have to go buy to paper and have to go find stuff. How is it different? I was just going to say that. I was going to say, number one,

what he described was kind of the arc of a pro, like the emotional arc of a pro. Like when you're young, it's hard to be self-secure and to not let other people's opinions of you affect your ability to stay confident and stay true to who you are and continue to go out there and do your job. Good organizations, though, help you do that,

right, good coaches that have your back, good teammates that have your back and hold you down and reaffirm that what you're doing is the right thing and continue to do it and we trust you. Like those things all play into that. But as you get older and more mature, you're able to kind of stand on your own two feet with that, right? Like, this is, this is Ennis, this is who I am,

this is what I do. I'm not worried about the bullshit. Now, as it pertains to social media, Logan, I don't know that, you know, I don't know that I could have existed as a player. I don't think you could have either, right? I don't know. No, I really don't because there was a time, admittedly, when I left, when I went to, when I went to Philly, no one expected shit out of me, right? And I wasn't ready to really contribute in the NBA. But I had to because Larry Brown threw me in. So I had a moment. It was just that. It was a moment in the finals and the West Eastern Conference finals. So the next year, there was expectations were so big. I played great in Summer League. I was the MVP. And people thought I was just going to be like a sidekick to AI. I was not ready for that. And so I got buried on the bench. Larry Brown. fell out of love with me.

The city forgot about me. And I was really dejected. If I had social media to kind of dig into and go down a rabbit hole, I would have quit basketball because I was almost there. Like I was really ready to like shut it down. But, you know, access to that.

And Ennis, you have to be doing like, you know, that's great work as a vet helping those guys navigate that because that can be some dangerous waters you're waiting into. How do you do that, Ennis? I like every time I put out a story, I'm on Twitter.

or every time we put out of the pod, like I'm on Twitter, how do you stop doing that? This is just like free advice from someone with a lot more followers and a lot more shit than I do. Like, how do you stop? I mean, I think, you know, like Roger said, I think like your teammates helps out. It helps a lot.

I remember, you know, my rookie season, all Jefferson Ben said you're not allowed to go on Twitter for a month. Said you're not going to check Twitter. You're not going to, if you ever tweet something, if you ever say anything about the Twitter, I'm going to take your phone and not give it away. So that helped me a lot, actually. So I wasn't allowed to tweet anything.

I wasn't allowed to check Twitter or any. So that helped me a lot for sure. But I think, you know, as a rookie, it's tough, man, because because you just come in the league, the whole state or whole whatever America is talking about you, and they're hyping you off. There's always a first round pick. He's going to do this and that.

And you have a few bad games. Then the fans are just ready to just crush you. You know, so it's so hard to just avoid that noise. I think just in that case, I think like Rajas has the organization and the older players helps a lot. I have to hold you down. You know what I'm taking, Logan? Like, and I, you already given me the answer in this, but I'm going to ask you. And I think it's the importance.

I talked to what to the point a lot on the pod about having a good vet, right? And what you see, Logan, what has happened is this is paying it forward, right? Like he, like, Ennis is referencing his great vet. Al Jefferson, he says it over and over again, right? And now he is dead. No, it's okay, though. I have my own young, Ennis was a great rook. That's a big to big, man.

It's a big to big. You claim a rook, right? That's your guy. I am just messing around. It's all good. It's all love. But Enis is doing that for another generation of player. And that's what's important.

That's that brotherhood, that bond, that thing that people from the outside don't see, right? It's a small fraternity, man. It's pretty cool. Yes. I mean, I've seen a player, listen, I see a, a player gets on Twitter and see what people are saying in a half time. This teammate, I don't want to give his name. He was right next to me.

And he literally got on Twitter and just checking the feeds and see what people were saying about him. And then he was about to go out there and play in the second half on like five minutes. And so I'm like, dude, you know, I try to talk to him and that stuff. But, you know, that's just his age, because of his age, just don't know any better. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, we literally, like, I just didn't want to see the paper. And I wouldn't turn on Sports Center.

That's all we had to navigate, right? Like, we didn't have to worry about picking up a phone seeing it. That's got to be told. Bro, you got to delete your app sometime, both of them, Instagram and Twitter. You got to just, like, really just keep it away from you. It's hard, bro. It's really hard. One thing you have used your Twitter for is activism.

That's something that you have done. I want to paint a picture before I ask you this question. Now, you, in 2017, you spoke out against the Turkish government. You called the president, the Hitler of your lifetime. And then it has had grave ramification. You said you haven't spoken to, after speaking out against the government, you haven't spoken to your family in about six years. You know, you haven't been able to go there, passport issues, all of that.

For speaking out against your native government, how has that process been for you since then? Like, can you give us an update on what's going on in your life and how Twitter and being an activist has affected your life? I think, you know, just I feel like it's a basketball is a God's gift for me. So I'm like always trying to find some ways to just, you know, what can I do to, you know, just, you know, just affect other people's life. And I think it's very sad. But if you look at Turkey right now, and I'm sure many other countries too, you know, there's no freedom of speech, religion or expression, there's no democracy and there is no human rights. And there are so many political prisoners and journalists are in the jail right now just because of this spoken out

against the Turkish government. So I mean, my first couple of years in the league, all I care about just was playing basketball, right? And then I'm like, you know what, this is a huge platform. So I'm like always trying to find some ways to say, okay, what can I do to use this platform to, you know, bring more voice about some of the issues are happening in my country, you know? And And then I, I mean, after my third and fourth year, I mean, I just started to study more, started to study about the relationship between, you know, the American Turkey, started to, you know, just study, you know, the Middle East by politics and everything. You know, the thing, you know, I always like to talk about is, you know, political

president is a journalist in a jail because there are so many of them in the jail right now and there are so many reports out there are saying that these people are getting torture and rape and stuff. Obviously, the things I talk about when you're talking about against like a dictatorship, obviously it's going to affect you and your family. I remember first time I started talking about these issues. They revoked my passport. You know, my dad was a genetic professor. He got fired from his job.

My sister went to medical school for six years. She still cannot find a job. And my little brother was playing basketball. He got kicked in Turkey. He got kicked out in every team just because of, I talk about, these issues, you know, they had to put a statement out there, my family, and publicly and saying we are disowning Ennis, because they were getting affected so much, you know. But Turkish government didn't believe that. You know, they sent police to my house in Turkey

and they raided the whole house and they took every other electronics away, phones, computers, laptops, because they wanted to see if I am still contact with my family or not. And after they searched my house, they took my dad in jail for a while. But just because of we put so much pressure from with media and with politicians from here to Turkey they let them go um you know I talk about these issues and so many of my teammates are like asking okay are you crazy you know just play your play your basketball make millions and just focus on you know how you're going to live a good life but you know my family is only one I mean obviously they know my situation because of I play basketball but there are so many you know families out there

so many situations out there that's way worse than mine so I'm trying to do the best I can to bring awareness. I know that when you were with the NICs, you didn't even want to go to you couldn't go to London. Not that you couldn't, but you wouldn't go to London. And you said that it was a team set it was a passport issue. You said it wasn't. It was you literally feared for your life. Where does that stand now? Are you scared right now? How do you feel just even being in this position

right now? So my name is on Interpol list. I don't know how much you know about the Interpol list. So Interpol. is pretty much like an international criminal, you know? So if you go anywhere outside of America, there's a really good chance that that country will deport you back to Turkey. And in Turkey, there's an arrest warrant for me. And if I go at it, I'll be in jail for years, you know, just because I spoke out against the Turkish government. But right now, just because of they wrote my passport, I cannot leave America. But luckily I'm becoming a citizen this summer. you know, I'm a green cardholder.

I'm going to become an American citizen this summer. So once I've become a citizen, I'm going to be able to travel. So it's been rough, man, because, I mean, when you talk against a dictatorship, I get a lot of death threats all the time, social media and all that stuff. So all these people talking about my defense doesn't really affect me when you get all this, death threats and talk about the dictatorship. So it doesn't really affect me. I got bigger things to, like, worry about it, you know?

Yeah, put some things in perspective there, bro. And as I was going to ask you, like, you said you're on Interpol list. What is the crime? Like, I don't know that you feel comfortable. Like, what's the crime? I mean, they don't just put any crime on an Interpol list. Like, what do they say you did to warn an interval?

Some of the countries are using their poverty abuse rent notice system in Nepal. That Russia does it. Turkey does it than many other countries does it. If you are, you know, just spoken out against the Turkish government, that or any government that are, you know, basically dictatorship. What they do is they will put your name on in a call. And as soon as you leave America, that country has to deport you back to Turkey because I'm not American citizen yet.

The crime they said I took, I do is that's just spoken out against Turkish government. And they make him look like I am a bad guy because I talk about freedom, democracy, and human rights. I mean, you look at my every interview I gave or every op-ed that I wrote, it always talks about what can we do to free all those political prisoners and journals in a jail. Right now, Turkey is leading the world of most journals in a jail, you know. And there are right now, if you look at the reports, there are 17,000 innocent women are in the jail right now waiting for help.

And MS. International Human Rights, World, Human Rights, Human Rights, Foundation are saying that these women are getting torture and rape and strip search every day. You know, so like, I'm, of course, I'm going to use my platform to talk about all these issues. And when you do it, the government says, okay, look, he's against his country. He hates his country and he doesn't like, you know, what the Turkish government is doing. So he's a bad guy. Yeah. That's not terribly, I mean, it's not fair.

I have a really convoluted question. I don't know if this is come across, right? You're an activist. You're a social activist. You're doing what you can do. You're using your platform in a country where things are much. worse, exponentially worse than the country that we currently live in. Our country's not perfect, though. And the NBA and your brothers have stood up and taken on their own social activism over

the last few years in regards to situations in colors specifically of community in the U.S. Is there ever any conflict on your part? Like, I mean, I know you stand with them, but you also have a real appreciation for the liberties and stuff that are in this country as bad as unequal as as it can be at times. Does that ever conflict you? What his conflict means? I don't know what question I'm trying to ask. I think it's really interesting, though, and it's because we live in a country where we're afforded a lot of opportunities that you aren't in Turkey. Yet our country isn't perfect, and there's still a long way to go.

And so I just, you know, I don't know what I'm asking, but I wonder if you ever have conversations with guys in regards to like, hey, I know they can't be perfect and there's a lot of room for you guys to go, but it's better than where I'm from. Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean, when I was speaking, especially when I was with Austin, the Celtics, me and Jalen Brown, you know, sit down and had many conversations. Me and, you know, Taco and all the other guys, I sit down and many conversations. I'm like, listen, things are, you know, you know, is the last, if you look at the last seven,

eight months, obviously things are good, get it was wild in America. But I was like, listen, man, at least you can tweet or you can use your voice. If you're in Turkey and use any of the stuff, you'll be in jail, you know. I think, you know, I learned a lot from them. I think if you call yourself a human or not active, you cannot just be only focusing on one thing. So I was, you know, sitting in a bubble. I was like a really good time to,

when we had the NBA bubble last year, it was a really good time to just sit down with my brothers and learn because they're standing up for something very, very important against, you know, racism. So I think, you know, what Jalen taught me, what other players that taught me, because I think you always have to be open-minded and learn. You know, I think we had many really good conversations,

and we always like, okay, well, I think the important thing is, what can we do, how can we use our platform to, you know, educate and inspire our young generation. So when they become an old age, they want to face the same problems. We are facing right now. So we always like we were trying to fit for you down, okay, what can we do to, you know, bring more awareness about all the human rights violations, about racism, about this, about that.

So I think I learned a lot from the match. I definitely feel very lucky to be a teammate with the H.GELO Brown. Do you, you know, I know you don't feel safe leaving the country and can't necessarily do that. Do you feel safe in America? You know, I had so many conversations with many people. I'm actually really, you know, touch with the FBI and stuff. I remember when I was in Portland two years ago, We wrote on a role game and we sit down with FBI before the role game and talk about all the death threats and everything.

You know, they were very concerned. And we left for the road game and FBI came to my hotel room and they set up this thing called panic button. They said, listen, whenever you feel uncomfortable, whenever you feel threatened, whenever you feel anything, push that button will be there in two, three minutes. So, I mean, I was living with a panic button right next to my bat. I always wanted to push that and see are they really going to show up in two, three minutes. I'm glad that I never had to push it. But it's tough, man, because just because of you standing up for something, right, and there you get in all the threats and all the, you know, crazy hate from your own country,

it definitely affects you a lot. Do you still have to live with that panic button? I still have it. Yeah, I still have it in my room in my apartment. Wow. Wow. That's wild. That's wild. This was a great illuminating conversation, man. It's wild to even say that. Let's get to a real one of the week where we talk every week about, you know, a person or an entity or an organization that won the week in our eyes. I'm going to make this lighthearted considering what we've talked about. My real one of the week is Stephen A. Smith. The reason he is my real one of the week, I'm not sure if you saw this, but he was on a. I think he was on an ABC show as a detective, and he was jumping around. I got to send you this clip, Roger.

He's jumping around. He's shooting folks. He's saving lives. Stephen A can do anything. It was very funny. Stephen A should be the next James Bond. I said this on Twitter. He should be the next James Bond.

He's fucking jumping around. He's like, he has the Bluetooth of headset in. It was hilarious. It was a week of Stephen A. Smith, the next James Bond. I like Stephen A, but you could miss me with the next James Bond. I'm out. I'm out. Who you want?

You want Ennis or me? Who's next? Go ahead, Roger. Go ahead, Roger. All right. Well, I mean, I don't give real one in a week to Ennis after that. Like, his, that's some real one shit. Like, the rest of what we're talking about is the, I mean, you know what I'm saying?

But if I have to give a number two, then allow me to give it to the Milwaukee Bucks. All right? Because we came on here last week and we were talking about, or earlier this week, and Logan was like, yeah, Brooklyn, I still, you know, and then Milwaukee came out again and doubled down beating them last night in a tooth-and-nail game

when both Kyrie and KD played pretty well, I think it was 38 and 32. Janice played well. That number two that you were talking about, Chris Middleton, while he didn't play great, he scored a lot of four-quarter points, big buckets down to stretch. Do I need to put some respect on Chris Middleton's name?

Maybe just a little respect in his closing ability. So for me, there are real ones of the week just for standing up twice to Brooklyn and saying, hey, we're about this life. For show, Ennis, who is your real one of the week? You know, for me, you know, I even play for them. So I know them really well. I want to give it to New York Knicks. Hey. Tim's in the air.

Tim's get clucket with Tims. I play for them. And they were the reason that I left was important because of, you know, what they were trying to do. You know, I just wanted to be part of a winning organization. But, I mean, I think I want to give it to them for sure because obviously they clinched a play of spot since, what, 2013, I believe. And then I guess they're like one of the best defensive team in the league and stuff. And Tibbs are doing an amazing job, man, Julius Randall, Tibbs and all the stuff on an amazing side. I want to get to New York Knicks.

That's a great real one. You had one of the great New York Nick moments in the last five years. you defended Frank from LeBron. It was the guard that was back when you did that. That was a, just speak on that moment real quick because afterwards you were like, we're brothers and I'm going to step up for my teammate. That was great.

That's what I learned from my vets, man. I mean, Rajah was standing up for himself to Kobe every, every game, you know? So I'm like, hey, it doesn't matter who that is. I'm just going to, you know, just stand up for my teammates. It doesn't matter. You call yourself a king or, you're the best player on earth.

You know, I'm just going to stand up for my brothers no matter what, you know. And he was a, obviously, at that time, he was a rookie. So I'm like, dude, you are the best player on earth. And, you know, you're just really going to try to go out at rookie. And I'm like, you know, I got to step in it. You know, so I just got to, I have to do something. Did you get a pair of Tims while you were in the New York in the New York market? Did you get a pair?

A pair of what? Timberlens. Did you get a pair of Timberland shoes? I didn't, but I think one of the companies sent it to everyone. Oh, okay. I think I didn't buy it, but they sent it to everyone, I think. Okay, okay. We got to clap them in the air for Ennis Cantor.

It's a hair. This is a great edition of the Real Woods Pod on the Ringer NBA feed. Make sure you check out all our other shows on the NBA feed. That's called, like, group chat, like the answer, like real ones, like other stills on the ringer feed. like R2C2 with who, Roger Bello. That's Vallejo Legend, C-C-Sabatia. And you can also see Black Girl Songbook, which has officially ended its first season.

It will be coming back soon. Who is that with Roger Bell? Town legend, town legend. Danielle Smith. Damn right. Make sure you check out the Midnight Boys with Charles Holmes and Van Lathen on the Ringerverse. They have a lot of great stuff there.

Make sure you also check out Charles Holmes on the Ringer Music Show. We'll see you guys next week. See you.