The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 10: 'The Ringer NBA Show' Finals Game 1 With Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, and Tate Frazier

Episode Date: June 3, 2016

The Ringer's Chris Ryan, Juliet Litman, and Tate Frazier on the implications of the Game 1 loss for the Cavs, Kyrie's "superstar" status, and potential mid-tier Team USA combinations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And while you're on your phone, after you buy tickets, go to theringer.com. That's our new website. It's full of great content on sports, pop culture, tech. You can find all of our podcasts there. And we're really excited about it. If you like this podcast, you'll probably like the site. If you don't like this podcast, you'll probably like the site anyway. Who knows? But just check it out. That's Theringer.M.com. And now, the Ringer MBA show. I'm Juliet Litman. I am joined by Chris Ryan.

Executive editor of the ringer.com. Tate Frazier. Let's go. Audio producer of the ringer podcast network. And we have a website. It's called Theringer.com. Please check it out. You got tons of content about these NBA finals.

And if that's not enough, we're here to talk about it. So let's just dig in. I got my shovel. You got your shovel? And I'm digging a whole six feet deep for Kyrie Irving Superstar. Whoa. Bye, Carrie. Bye, Carrie.

Come in hot. Coming in hot. I don't know if Kyrie lost them in the game. last night, I think that the deli punch to the Iggy's really woke them up. They started like a 284 run after that. Yeah. I think just collectively that just like sparked

the Warriors to go. But Tate man, your boy, Kyrie Irving driveling forever on the perimeter because he wants to be like Steph. He wants to battle him head to head, which I love. It's great. It's fun to watch Kyrie look at Stefan Curry in his mind. He thinks that he's just as good.

Right, but Kyrie's not rushed. I just want to say one thing. I think that all basketball players in the NBA think that they are the best, except for like maybe Nick Collison. He's the only one or doesn't think that. That's respect. And Kurt Heirich. In Kurt Heirich. Those are the only two. Guy Leonard, who probably doesn't really watch basketball. He doesn't know who anybody is who's playing.

Those three guys are like don't think of the best, but I think I don't hold it against Kyrie that he thinks he's as good as staff. I do if it, if it basically destroys the Cavs chances of winning. I do if Harrison Barnes takes you down to the post. It gets buckets on you like it's nothing. We predicted that was going to happen. We knew that Kyrie and love would be stashed on Barnes. And Barnes is good, so he knows that, and he exposes them.

I think that Harrison has, like, one move on the post, and it's like, if he's only outside, he's going to go to his right. And it's what LeBron was doing last night. And, like, Kyrie still can't defend it. Like, it's not hard to defend. Like, so many people are active with their hands against Harrison, and he just was getting bodied. It was great. Kairu does that thing.

I do it all the time in my life, where it's like, you go. I can't wait to hear what you're going to say. You go into a situation and you really psych yourself up for your focus and you're like, I'm going to execute. I'm going to do. And maybe it's usually a thing that you don't want to do, like say play defense. For me, I don't know what it would be. I love my defense. What is it for you, Chris?

I don't know what it would be. But for Kyrie, it's like play defense. You can see in his eyes, he's like, this is, I'm going to get my rep. My stock is going up on defense this time and out of court. And then just it takes the littlest like move on the part of Steph for Kyrie to be like basically out of his Krispy creams. lying on the ground and Steph's just like breezing by him like it's crazy I look I I just think one of the things that we didn't really talk about coming into this we had this pot with Trevon the other day and we didn't really talk about the idea of Kyrie what's kairi's career

about I was a great question I wasn't asked that I want to take like a more bird's eye view of Kyrie Irving yeah how many years have been in the league now yeah 2012 2012 okay is this is his fifth year in the league and in a lot of ways his career even in college has been a coming attraction for itself right he's been a brand since he was a senior in high school. He went to Duke and was all about the Kyrie brand. How many players do we have in this series who were brands in high school?

Harrison, LeBron, Kyrie. Yeah. Shump. That's true. Festus. I mean, what? By the way, I just said Kyrie had been the year for five years.

I only been four. I couldn't do the math in my head. My bad. Because you missed the season, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

I think that everyone in the Cavaliers is a brand. Like, Deli just signed a shoe deal. I feel like that's how you get in. Deli is on Panera, too. Panera bread? Yeah. Oh, no. Do you like Panera bread?

Sure, but I wouldn't eat it if I was a basketball player. Yeah, you're not supposed to carve up like that, are you? No. It's empty carbs. It needs to do like a cup commercial like for baseball players. We're digressing. I want to get back to Kyrie, but I have a really mean comment. Is this a safe space?

Sure. I think a few Cavs players look like they need to rethink their diet. It's just a few of them, not all. I think Kyrie, I think Kevin Love, I think Deli, I think all of them. I'm just like, hmm, who's a nutritionist for your team? Let me talk to them. Weird. That's crazy.

You think they're out of shape? A little bit. I think Tristan is the main one that's out of shape. And I forgot it. So you agree with me? I think Tristan's out of shape. Like last night when they were on the break, he was like late a couple of times. Living's in had a couple of easy putbacks because Tristan Thompson was being like,

and Kristen Thompson's like, I got paid so much more than I deserve. I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want. He's also like, my job is basically to just clean up offensive boards. Yeah. Like life just doesn't. doesn't have the same meaning as it does. Exactly. He's not particularly skilled.

No. Let's talk about Kyrie though. Yeah. Okay. So, Kyrie, four years in the league. Yeah, and it starts out being the franchise savior. Yes. And then he becomes the franchise supporting actor.

And I don't know. I mean, just like, I think it's very. Is Kyrie in the top 15? No, I told Chris this the other day. Top 20? No, he's not in the top 50 of my NBA. So many shots fired today. He's so, I mean, I think a perimeter defense.

is so pivotal to the NBA and he, I mean, he doesn't have it in the slightest. You can't hide him on defense. You really cannot hide him. But he doesn't have the same sort of qualities, I don't think, that somebody like Dame has, where Dame is just has like a certain, like, I don't know, like leadership capabilities

or it just makes it seem like he's really ready to take on like the mantle of like leading the Blazers in Lamarcus's absence. Here's a problem with Kyrie, in my opinion. But particularly compared to Dame, they both are so. certain they're like top five, if not number one point guards in the league. But Dame still has a huge ship on his shoulder and is like constantly trying to prove it.

Karee thinks he's already proven it and doesn't think there's anything left for him to show. Like he does not have that chip on his shoulder. He's like a better R&B singer than he is a basketball player. I've never heard of him saying. Is this because he went to Duke? Would you feel this life if he didn't go to Duke? I don't even consider him like a Duke character.

Right, he was a Duke for like four games. And he broke his wrists, right? Yeah, he's out. It was a turf toe. But it was like all season. Didn't you have wrist problems? Was that in the NBA? Yeah.

Wrists, wrist, wrist, rest, rest. All right, so there's Kyrie. What are some other storylines we're talking about today? Well, last night was interesting. Everyone's, like, on the Sean Livingston bandwagon. I've personally been there for a long time. I'm happy to see him get some shine. I like to meet somebody who's not on the Sean.

I know, right? Like, I just feel like that's kind of encapsulates this series where we're celebrating Sean Livingston already in game one. Like, it doesn't really bode well for the future. I will say this now. I'm going to have, like, a really good time. RIP's Hot Sports Takes, our boy, Andrew sharp more than you till I join you. I will write the Steph is not a true legend until he wins

the finals MVP award if Livingston wins finals MVP and Steph misses out on two straight finals finals. My personal dream is for Clay Thompson to win finals MVP and I think it's on the table. Maybe not after last night he kind of no-showed, but we know that every sixth game or so, Clay just takes a break and that's fine. If you get 17-3s like you did in game six- gets a thunder. Talk about it. I'm talking about it. I love you Clay Thompson. Talk about what you want to talk about. Talk about the rise of Claytheism. A few years ago, I heard of rumor that Clay Thompson was on an allowance from his parents because of his like getting caught with pot. And I just fell in love. I just like, this is a guy for me. You want a guy with an allowance? A man on an allowance. Wow.

For just, you know, I just really gave him like a weird personality to me. And then he also is very like, he's not exactly like blowing you away on camera, but he just seems like so authentically like weird. Like when he was looking at the stat sheet last series, and he's like, sheesh, not enough assists. He was like, we had 40 assists, so that's pretty good. And he was like, oh, wait, that's 14. Sheesh. Yeah, I've heard a good sheesh in a long time.

It was solid. And then he rains down threes. He saves his team. He gets until the NBA finals. He's got the purest motion in all of the league. It's a Cinderella story. A guy with an NBA player father. The son of a number one pick overall.

somehow found his way to the top of the NBA. And he's unbothered. Like even when he does crazy things, like it's like, oh, like he just seems like he just right over his head. He's a movable.

He's a movable. I actually remember when Bill was on, excuse me, when Dream Mom was on Bill's podcast before the playoffs, which feels like ages ago, he's like, Clay doesn't worry about anything.

He knows he's going to get his shots. That's why he's here. And I think that is true. Like he's kind of carefree and like all he does is focus on shooting. It's like if you built a shooter in a test tube, you'd want him to have Clay's personality because it's just like,

absolutely unconscious. And meanwhile, he's a really good defender. We'll talk about Claytheism, though. So, yeah, I just, talking about the explosion of Claythism on Twitter. I believe in Clay and I believed him for a while and I've called myself a Claytheist. And every time, every time he gets hot, I like to tweet out hashtag Claytheism. And it just seems like some other people have converted since last weekend. And somebody sent you tablets, right? Someone, someone on Twitter wrote like the Ten Commandments of Claytheism. I really appreciated that.

Is it thou shalt not overspend thou's allowance? Thou shall not go X number of days That taking your Instagram of my boring bulldog Thou shalt not smoke weed before the finals game Yeah, thou should not take off your Yoda socks There you go Anyway, it was really exciting I just love seeing Claytheism come into the national consciousness

Or at least like 10 people's consciousness Not just my own. While Clay was very blist out This was a pretty chippy game last night You had Draymond's kick Yes. We had Delovedovas, I think unintentional, unintentional. So intentional.

Also, I understand why Iggy got... Wait, you think it's unintentional? Yeah. And... I think it's very intentional. You think that he ran full speed down the court, looked up,

and slapped at the ball and just happened to nail... I think he knew that if either I get the ball or I get the balls. It was ball versus balls. Tate was waiting to drop that line on us for like hours. I was waiting to drop it on Twitter

and then I was like, never mind. I'm going to say that in the chamber. I think that Iggy's reaction while understandable was a little bit rich because I feel like Stephen Adams really let Dremont. I mean, he couldn't do anything

about it who's double over it in pain. Yeah. But they didn't really, like, go after Dremont for doing that and act like Dremont broke some cardinal rule of basketball. It's just... Yeah, I mean, it's just different. Stephen Adams isn't totally different.

When it comes to, like, you know, physical altercation, Stephen Adams is in a class of his own. He doesn't need anyone to, like, defend him. That's the thing about the Warriors, though, is, like, this gets back to the problem with Kyrie. They're constantly inventing reasons of, like, why they should be worked up or angry. I don't think Kyrie ever gets angry. Like when, even when LeBron's yelling at him, all he does is tune him out.

Like, it's his mom or something. Yeah, he's like staring off in his space like, man, I really wish this guy would get out of my way. Shut the fuck up. Did you see the vine of LeBron looking like he had a migraine, like looking at Kevin Love and then, like, putting his hand in his head, head of his hands? What do you do with Kevin Love? I don't think it's Kevin Love's problem. I think it's the Kyrie problem. I actually think that Kyrie is a bigger issue than Kevin Love.

I mean, Kevin Love being a corner three-point shooter for however many million dollars he makes a year is a waste of money in time. But he was working hard. Like he was getting rebounds. I thought he had a good game. Yeah, he was fine. I mean, Kyrie took what, 22 shots? Yeah.

26 points on 22 shots. That's ridiculous. He just sucks the life out of that team too. Yeah. He wants to be the hero, but like he's never, it's never been successful. Maybe like three games when he's up like game winning threes or something like that. It was strange how last night was sort of a letdown game for the first three quarters. It was pretty much just like.

I missed the thunder. Yeah, I missed the thunder. But it was clearly like, it's like an emotional journey that you go on in these series. and the beginning is rarely as exciting as the end. And so you could tell those guys who are feeling each other out and just sort of playing. And I thought LeBron went to driving a lot, which was good, but was also surprising. I thought that they would try to work out that team offense. What did you think of what you saw from the Cavs?

Do they have a shot at all? I mean, Shumper was terrible. J.R. was terrible. J.R. was bad. I mean, Chaining Fry can't play. J.R. didn't score until the third quarter. J.R. looked like someone that was scared to shoot the basketball. And I can't believe I just uttered those words out of my mouth.

I never thought that would occur. It was the weirdest thing. I want to go back to LeBron for a minute. You brought up something interesting, which is, it's been discussed and written about quite a bit. I felt LeBron's outside shooting has really, he's just dropped off. And so he's been driving so much. And, like, what do you think they should be doing? Like, how does Kyrie facilitate LeBron getting closer to the basket?

By playing LeBron at the five. Or get out of the game and let Delva Dova run the pick and roll with him? Kari is so bad on defense. Freimo Williams. Tate legitimately thinks that Deli should be playing over Kyrie. I think that, I mean, Deli was, like, terrible last night. He was, like, minus night. He would think he had the worst plus or minus last night.

But, yeah, I mean, Delvedova is such a better defender. He's better on the pick and roll. LeBron will pass on the ball. LeBron trust him. Because he knows he'll get a back from Deli. He really does not trust Kyrie. And all Kyrie does, it's either, like, one side of the court, Kyrie had the ball and dribbled it out until he wanted to take a shot,

or LeBron was on the other side and dribbled out until he wanted to take a shot. Jason Concepcion wrote about this in the post we put up last night on the ringer on Thursday night. But they just dared Kyrie to do that. They were just like, yeah, you go ahead. We're going to stay with all of the other guys, and you're going to have to take somebody one-on-one. And we're going to stay in front of you, and you're just going to dribble for 10 seconds and break the play. Absolutely. And a thing about Livingston that I think didn't come up previously with the Thunder is that he is so long and rangy.

Six-seven. Yeah. He's just not athletic enough to play with Russell Westbrook, but he's a problem. for many other point guards who are the same size as, like, Kyrie or Russ. Yeah, Kyrie's, like, best moment on defense I remember last night, which is, like, the shot they showed after the game was, like, Livingston's little floater. And, like, Kyrie's hand is, like, right there, should have blocked it, but he's 6'7.

And Kyrie, like, no matter, if it was Steph taking that floater, Kari maybe does block it. He was there, but it was Sean Livingston, and that's cash every time. Right. What's up with Steph and Clay just no showing last night? We know it's okay. It's Clay's game off. But, like, that's the thing about Steph is, like,

this playoffs there's been a lot of like is he hurt is he not hurt and he just not shooting as well i don't know i guess i just think that i'm it's i don't question his dominance and there was a there was a run there i think in the fourth quarter where they just really opened it up and i feel like he hit a couple of threes in that stretch yeah he just changes the game in a way that we're just so unfamiliar with that it doesn't feel like dominance until you realize like oh it was a six point game and now it's a 16 point game yeah and that's and that can just happen in 40 seconds The center of gravity on the court changes when he's there. And I think like when he's not shooting really well, you can forget to like to like watch him as closely.

But watching him, it doesn't feel like he, I don't think from watching his body language that he feels like he's playing at his best basketball. No, I don't think so either. I think he was a decoy a lot to an offense. Like they had a couple of times where they were switching guys out and like LeBron got lost because Shumpert was worried about him hitting a three. So Shumpert came out. Then LeBron didn't cut back and like Draymond had two or three wide open layups because of that. Draymond had that one play where it was just like he almost missed the dunk because he had so much room. Yeah, exactly.

And then LeBron just looking at Shumper, like, I can't believe I play with these people. All right, so let me ask you this. It keeps going the way it's going. Cavs losing four or five. Yeah. Day two or whatever. What do they do? Are they worried about LeBron bolting?

I don't think that can happen. Trade Kyrie? Who takes on Kyrie? That's problem. Kyrie's about to put himself in the shop window for four days and the sale sign is getting bigger and bigger. Yeah, yeah. It's like about to be a blues hag special on him. Where does Kyrie go?

Kyrie for CP3? That's what I mean, would you, but at this point that... Like, why the clippers do that? Yeah. Unless it's a new era and they're like, I'm tired of Chris Paul basically. That's not Doc style, man. Has Doc ever ushered in a new era at any team he's coached? No.

And like, not that I'm like connected to the clippers, but everything that I've quote unquote heard suggests that like Blake would go before CP3. Yeah. I mean, I don't know where Kyrie fits in, but I can promise you that LeBron is going to cut if they lose in four games five games what we're saying right now i mean it's a complete overhaul i mean they're trading kevin love they're trading karee and he's getting two guys that are superstars karee to philly for the one do you want that no but i just think the the conspiracy theory person in me with ben simmons sitting courtside all the time mike conley goes back to ohio

to the cavaliers and have a real point guard there with lebron like i would like that sign and trade to Memphis? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like get Kyrie out of there to some market where he'll be the superstar. It doesn't matter. Do they ask for anything? Does there's any to be anything added into that deal? Maybe they throw like Bickerstaff in like it's like a coach swap too. They're like Ty Lou, you're out, Bickerstaff you're in. Coach Viz to the Gris. It's a new era there. Yeah, I know. Dwayne Wade was really happy for David Fisdale. It was nice to see. Anything else besides the Kyrie move? I mean, I just think LeBron has to sit there to himself and just think these two guys aren't good enough and they're not ready to be on this level which is what

we talked about before. If they're not ready now they're never going to be ready. They've both been in the league for quite some time and they weren't there last year. Everyone's like I don't know why they're not ready. It's like well they didn't play in that moment last year and now they have all the pressure on them in the world and the warriors just beat I think the second best team. Yeah love was fine last night. It was just carrie. What a indictment of the Eastern Conference seeing the Cavs get beat last night without even like their two stars playing that well? Like, it's just like all the teams that were, you know, that struggling with the calves. It's just.

Dwayne Quacey getting paid. Yeah. Do you feel good about that? Sure. Whatever. You're cool. You're down with it. One of my favorite storylines from the broadcast last night was, um, pretending that Kevin

Love and Clay Thompson were friends and like, go way back to their Portland days. Really? Yeah. They're like, wow. These two have known each other for so long. Two late-Ogo families. They all know each other from AAU or college. It's not like they're ever like, I've never met this guy.

There are two guys in the NBA who don't. don't have friends in the NBA, it's Kevin Love and Clay Thompson. So they're definitely not friends with each other. I was just so silly. I'm a little bummed. I really missed the energy of the Western Conference Finals. Not only could we love the Thunder around these parts, but it was just such a fun series. It'll get there.

There will be like Cleveland will be hype for game three. They'll have to, they'll say to themselves, like, it's not a series until you lose at home. Right. The Warriors weren't even hype last night, though. Like, everyone was on a comeback. I know. I want J.R. Smith to hit 11 threes and tied.

Clay's record in game three. I almost like the Warriors fans are almost like drug addicts where it's like they're chasing the high and they sometimes can't keep that level of energy high enough until the threes start dropping. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And even if they go down by like 12 or 15, they're just kind of like these quiet guys and then like as soon as the first three's hit, they're like, oh, oh.

Regardless of who wins this series in the championship, has your opinion of Draymond Green changed in these playoffs? It seems like a random question. I think he's gone from like an MVP candidate this season to a little bit more of a role player. What do you think? I think that he got exposed that if you have someone athletic enough to guard him, that he can be neutralized. I also wonder whether or not, you know, just like the same way people say about Westbrook with his physicality and like what will happen if his, when he finally like his body starts to go a little bit, will he learn to play a little bit more politically like with his game? With Dremont, I do think that he plays on an edge.

And I think that the thunder kind of exposed that you can use that edge against him. at some time sometimes you have to punk him back yeah can't let him punk you you got to punk him back and that was the thing that sounds like a job for jrr smith yeah if you can't shoot get draymond tossed i'm serious or deli yeah deli i mean deli hit the wrong guy in the balls deli need yeah yeah yeah he needs to fight draer like that like that he needs to go into the game balls and be like well you did it yeah yeah yeah just doing the shrug um what are some other like game changers that for the cabs though like other than getting dream on tossed tossed yeah or freezing step's clays allowance

What's like, I mean, you know, in Charks, you wrote about this where the adjustments for the calves are not obvious. Check it out in the ringer.com. But like, Tate, what do you think is the number one thing they need to do in game two? It's got to be Richard Jefferson and Amman Shumper. It'd have to be great perimeter defenders. So that's not going to work. Okay. Richard Jefferson is like 48 years old.

Yeah, I mean, like I looked at their, like I was watching Caves last night. And I mean, you can see all my bronze face. He's just like, what can I do? It's interesting to think about game one last year. I'm weird that it, like, that just occurred to him. Yeah. That they didn't see that coming. Well, that's what happens when you're the GM, the coach, and the star.

That's true. Think back to game one last year, which I was last, doing last night. It was an overtime game. And it's pretty amazing how, like, LeBron continues to get better. Like, the Warriors as a team, when you compare game one to game one, really are just, like, on a different level. Yeah. It's pretty amazing because I remember last we were thinking, like, well, they won 67 games. This is an incredible revolution in basketball.

And the fact that, you know, even though they had this really tough series, they continued to like push what they do forward is like pretty incredible. Yeah. I mean, do you think that this is like a dynasty? They could three-pe? I guess they're going to have to start rejiggering the roster sooner later. Yeah, I'm more interested to see what happens with the Olympics if they win. I want to see if those three guys have to go and play in the Olympics just because.

I don't think stuff's going to go. I don't think so either. Coming off injuries. Clay will go and he'll win gold for the country. I love it. Can we have a quick sidebar here? Yeah. What is the worst team?

Team USA could send that would stolen gold. Like realistically? Yeah. Okay. Dame is their starting point guard. Sorry, Dame. De Rosen is your starting two guard. Um, would you rather have,

Lowry or Dame? Would you rather have Lowry or Dame? Would you rather have Lauerian Mello? That's a good team. I take it. Like I'm saying like, I want to get down to like Jabari. Yeah, but that was got. Heyward.

Oh. Give me J. Yeah. Give me Gordon Hayward. Gordo is going to be good at an international play. But I'm like, how. How low could we get? How far away from All-Star could we get when we would still beat Spain? Reggie Jackson?

Okay. More important. Ignoring all of their overseas treasures, could the Sixers win gold? No, no. Okay. I don't think so. So there's that. What overseas, Dario Sarch? Yeah. No, I don't think they could. Yeah. I don't know. I was just trying to think. And if they drafted Ben Simmons, they wouldn't get him on Team USA either. No, that's not true. He never played for Team Australia, right? Yeah. So he could play for Team USA. technically clear for them. That's what I think that Colangelo's cooking up right now. Ben Simmons.

Conspiracy theory? Yeah. The future of Team USA? I think he checked that out before he's going to draft. He was like, can he play on Team USA? Could the Morris Twins? Ooh. Reggie Jackson?

Could we get, yeah, Reggie Jackson? What's the Malcontent team USA? Boogie. Boogie. He said surgery, though. He's out. He's not realistic. And Chandler.

Parsons? Yeah. The Morris Twins, Chandler, Parsons? team to victory. Everyone would love him. I won't Bazmore. Baysmore, Parsons, the Morris Twins and Boogie. The all energy, good feeling guys, would be Baysmore, Chandler.

Like, those two, I think, are just, like, really widely liked, obviously, Chandler. I'm trying to think of, like, the most like center. I don't know. I just feel like people are kind of, I don't know. American centers. Drummond? Do people like Drummond? I'm team whiteside, just because I want to.

White side. Yes. He's got the malcontent team. Reggie Jackson. the Morris twins. Morris twins being forced to play with KCP and white side. Send him to Rio. That's her starting five? Yeah.

Wow. What a squad. Make those jerseys. This has been the Ringer NBA show. We'll be back next week with more commentary on the playoffs and the NBA summer. Thanks for listening. Please, please, please check out the Ringer.com. Read the Ringer.