The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 12: 2016 NBA Draft Sleepers and Busts With Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks

Episode Date: June 10, 2016

The Ringer's Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks on the under-the-radar talents to target in the 2016 NBA draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hello and welcome to another NBA draft edition of the Ringer NBA show. My name is Danny Chow. I'm an editor at the Ringer.com, and joining me is Ringer NBA writer Jonathan Charks. Jonathan, how are you? I'm good, man. How you doing? Pretty good.

In this episode, we'll be looking at some prospects who we believe to be underrated, or at least under the radar relative to where they've been slotted in, you know, the mock drafts that we've been seeing thus far. Our first group of guys have all had their perception affected one way or another by their recruiting ranking out of high school. These rankings are obviously an imperfect science, but they can, you know, mislead as much as they can clarify. The first guy in our list is Stephen Zimmerman, a seven-foot freshman out of UNLV. And he's a guy I really like. He's a top 10 recruit out of 2015.

I was able to watch him at the Adidas Nations where he looked like one of the best players in the tournament. And this was a tournament that included guys like Joliel Okifor, Miles Turner, Stanley Johnson, and Justice Winslow. What do you see in Zimmerman that fans should be excited for? That he's a center who can block shots and shoot threes, or at least he projects to be able to do that down the road. He's also molding that. He can, like, trap 20-hunky from the basket, like shake yaw or anything. But he can move with speed. It's not like Kevin Love out there.

Right. So if you've got a 7th footer who can play on the perimeter on both sides of the thing, the ingredient you need. And if you look at Extermin, and that might be true at all times like 25. And they really both had about equal freshman season. In this case, he had some mitigating circumstances.

He's playing for a coach and he got injured. And he just... It really does seem like kind of an optics thing where, you know, Scal is obviously getting... Scalibisier is obviously getting all of this, you know, positive attention just because of the kind of machine that UK generally

operates under, whereas obviously Zimmerman, you know, he's in a very dysfunctional environment. An interesting thing about that is they're both very, very underdeveloped big men in terms of both their productivity and their weight. The concerns over his body type is not necessarily founded, in my opinion. I think he has a frame that can definitely put on weight. He kind of looks like Tiago splitter to me. Is there anything on the defense event specifically that you really, really think projects well in the NBA frame? Well, just as down footers, especially, I feel like it's almost like looking at left tackle.

It's more about their feet, their hands, their quickness, than about their production. Because you think they'll be coached up on the end. I just think Nerman's pretty mobile. He has pretty good shot-blocking instinct. I think it generally sort of high basketball I do. Like, whoever drafts him and like lesson learned boys and girls, don't close nine with your hometown team.

The coach is a bad coach. It's going to cost you a lot of money to draft. Yeah, that's something I definitely noticed at the Adidas Nations. He was a guy who was leading his team. He was a guy who was creating offense from the top of the circle. He had very good vision. He had perimeter skills. And a guy who was very comfortable playing in the post with his left hand, especially.

I mean, I also, like, I went back and I watched that hoop summit from 2015. And he kind of gave Scalwood business a few times. He spaced him up 20 feet and went right around. I mean, he just had better basketball. Right. And now we go from Kentucky's big man to Kentucky's small man. So there are two small guys that we kind of are interested in in this draft. Let's talk about Tyler Ullis and Kay Felder, who are both 5'9, pretty intriguing point guards in this draft. The thing is, one was a projected first rounder, or is a projected first rounder, and the other one isn't. One was a top 20 recruit, and the other one went unranked between these two. who do you like better? All the Kentucky players this year just about. A team was not very nice.

We all saw it. But U.S. specifically, my mind as what is Shane Larkin, who I watched a lot. And Uly's like a very high basketball IQ. With Larkin, they have to be fixed physically to handle, like,

the beating and get in the post. I mean, he was 155 pounds. They have to be great shooters. And UlyS. only shot from the three this year, which comes ULIS. They kind of gave him that shot. He's not a great score.

He's a distributor. He's a four general. which is great. Tiny guards, because they've got no margin for their college player. Shane Larkin was a monster in Miami. He was the ACC player. He was a sophomore. He took them to Sweet 16, and he had like Bassler Q out the wazoo, elite athlete. I would say he's much faster than Ulysses. Right. And so to me, Felder, he's 59-180. He's really thick. He's just a good passer, just a good shooter, probably a better athlete. He played against Washington on the road. road. He played Michigan State and John P. Murray and Washington, against Washington,

he put three rebounds nine assists. Three rebounds. The other thing, too, is where he's to focus the attention all the time on defense. And so, yeah, they're not the same level of athletes, these smaller conferences. And these coaches, too, like, at these big major, high major schools, a lot of these guys can't coach at all. Like, LSU's guy, Johnny Jones, you really can't coach. So he's there to get players. But when you're playing at Youngstowns, Milwaukee, and Valparaiso, all these coaches are basketball lifers. ball your hands, they're going to throw junk defense that you constantly. So Felder's used to that,

whereas Yulis playing the SEC with Coach Cal, he's got a bunch of NBA guys around them. He was pretty easily. Kentucky. Right. And I think one of the things that separates them is, despite them both being 5'9, they're built very, very differently. Feldar is this, you know, solid brick of quick twitch muscles, kind of in the vein of, you know, Isaiah Thomas or Nate Robinson, where Whereas Ulyss, he weighed in at 149 at the NBA Combine, which I think would make him the third lightest player to ever play in the NBA, or at least in the last 30 years, behind Earl Boykins and Mugsy Bogues. And the thing with that is...

Yeah, I would say like... Oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, the thing with that is both of those guys were at least four inches shorter than him. With Ulyss, you're looking at a guy who is pretty much all arms and legs, despite being only 5'9. So the kind of the weight distribution worries me when it comes to him having to, you know, drive into the lane in the NBA. I actually like Ulyss a lot.

Part of me kind of roots for him because I feel like if he was 6-3, I would consider him one of my favorite point guard prospects in recent years, but he's not. And so the concerns there are absolutely warranted. As for Felder, look, this guy hits his. crossovers and stepbacks with, you know, more conviction than anything I've ever done in my life. He's incredible. Like his, I really, really enjoy his athletic instincts. And, you know, Alan Iverson tweeted about him once, saying that, you know, Felder was a problem in a good way.

So, you know, he has AI's vote of confidence. I, look, sign me up. Yeah, I would say, like, give me the small guy. And he was just jam up Murray. Murray sticks by with long arms, and Stubles put a shot off. He's so quick that he's a great opportunity to shoot. I'll take him over the game with, for sure. And speaking of great scores, our next guy, Malik Beasley, who was the number 36 recruit

out of the class of 2015. What are your thoughts on him? I've liked his game. I feel like he got under the radar because he was kind of in, Dwayne Bacon, a basketball player. He's got a very complete, well-rounded game. on defense, but he's got some tools, he's athletic, he's pretty good athlete. He's plays for a coach NBA defense from Hamilton.

I think he's got a chance to be a real steal. I'm a little surprised to be clear why you would declare for that team. It's not going to do well-free draft. Unsurprisingly, he's fond of. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Malik Beasley. I think he's just an incredibly efficient score who's capable of shooting threes off-ball movement, you know, or dribble stepbacks.

I think he's pretty versatile in that regard. I don't really trust him off the dribble yet, but how he attacks, you know, straight line drives on closeouts looked pretty good to me. I really enjoyed how hard he fought on defense. Like, I don't think he's quite there yet, but I think he's shown the desire to defend, and that's, you know, kind of half the battle.

You give that... But you know what sort of state you got to stand to play the sport. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. And, you know, given time to set up, he had really explosive leaping ability. You know, you look at a guy like Contavius Caldwell Pope, plays for the Pistons. He's shown the ability to guard, you know, three positions. And you wonder if Beasley might be able to do the same.

He doesn't quite have that length. But I think his quickness and his tenacity to close the gaps definitely helps him in that regard. I mean, I think he's definitely an interesting long-term guy. I'd assume when Dealey next year, I would grasp him. But he's definitely got to watch going forward. And someone much higher on the 2015 recruiting list was Jake Diallo, who was the number seven recruit out of 2015. He didn't see a lot of time at Kansas.

What should we know about him? Yeah, I mean, you know, don't know so he could play land. Like, he's not just a rim based up. He has a little like, if you think he's pure, he's all tools. He just never played at Kansas. There's another guy. I'm just why I declare for a draft to begin with. like who's advised me

players to play for the draft it's really kind of like there's so much of it's purely like season if you're on a bad team you're not playing much or I'm a good team not playing even if you have really good tools right I guess it's good for NBA team

and I think what the yoll is he's six nine seven full wingspan and he can guard a pick and roll I don't necessarily think we should fault him for trying to get into the NBA as soon as he can because I mean he's had to go through a lot of headaches with the NCAA

and I'm sure he's trying to get out of that more than he is, you know. That's true. Yeah. So, yeah. Was he suspended for the NCAA tournament or something like that? Remember next next next week? Yeah, he was just benched. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I really like him as, as you said, a guy who has a bunch of physical tools. The fact that he has a wingspan over 7-4 is remarkable. He seems to me to be a guy similar to an Amir Johnson type. You know, I don't think he's going to have the most. refined offensive game at the next level, but you really like that kind of defensive versatility, obviously be a guy who can defend the pick and roll in a number of ways. Yeah, I think that's really... With all these five in this year's draft, they're your fives you can guard the post,

and the owl is definitely like, could he guard a Morris Cousins, probably. So we've talked a lot about freshmen, but this year has obviously been kind of a senior resurgence in college basketball. It's reflected in this year's draft class. Historically, another way prospects have gotten overlooked is simply by being a senior. But I think that could be different this year. The first guy on our list isn't necessarily under the radar, but considering his skill set, he definitely is overlooked as a potential mid-to-late lottery guy.

And that's Denzel Valentine. What do you like about Valentine? Do you see them at 23-0 on Draft Express? I'm not sure. I mean, he's definitely not going to be a guy who's going to be like a physical marvel, but I'm surprised that he isn't wowing people with his shooting ability or just general floor sense. I mean, I'll play this game basketball player and Buddy Healed. I feel like they're both elite shooters, but Denzel can put on the floor, he can run point, he gets rebound.

He's a very versatile player, whereas Buddy just kind of shoots threes constantly, which is great. Buddy's student higher, like, but Buddy played no defense in college, really. With most Isaiah cousins, he learned how to play. He's a human human buddy. He's a human buddy is shooting. It's not very very. very high. He had a 40% 3.20 points during a high volume, off the dribble of them too. He's an elite shooter. And he can run point. And he kills the rebound. Like he'll get him on buddy. Right. And I've talked to you about this before, Charks, but my dream for Denzel Valentine would be for him to get drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks so that, you know, Jason Kidd can completely

double down on his vision of positionless basketball. He obviously fits their kind of mold for guys. he's long arms. You know, he's a guy who can, you could slot him as a secondary ball handler. And as you said, I mean, he's a great three-point shooter. You know, any team could use him on their roster. Yeah, for sure. I saw someone telling me, like, put in Milwaukee, he'd be great. Anyway, I see him with Denzel.

Like, he's such a versatile offensive buddy's got to be a guy coming off, which is fine. Like, the thing about that is, neither guy is probably going to be in a league of powers or their offense. Right. But I'll open up. Yeah. And if you slot him in the bucks, you know, you can hide him amongst, you know, the branches that they have on D. You know, everyone there has a wingspan of at least 610.

Isn't Denzel's wingspan too, right? Yeah, I think he has a 610 wingspan as well. For being a guy who's only 6.5, that's huge. Yeah, absolutely. I think my favorite Denzel Valentine Tidbit is that Pesha Stoyakovich is his favorite player, which completely inters. Yeah, he, that's, it's incredible. I wish I knew more about that. But they're not a nice game, man.

That's all that is. Yeah. You know what I like them do a lot, actually? I'm just looking at the snap draft. To me, put him in Utah at 12. Because Utah's got a bunch of links on defense. He can meet him in Utah Jazz. He can spot off the ball.

You can get guys shot. I mean... Right. And another guy who's been overlooked despite possibly having a lottery talent is Karris Levert out of Michigan. Now, you know, this isn't obviously entirely tied to a senior status, but the fact that he's suffered numerous foot injuries kind of does cast a lot of doubt

in picking him as a first round talent. What do you like from Keros Lavert? I love Lavert gets rebound. The guy I think I call him to, not quite exactly the same game. He's not off knee surgery. Laverte is healthy. Is he going to be healthy?

I don't know. Right. And one thing that Chris Middleton kind of had was knocked on entering the draft was it wasn't clear if he was going to be a great or a good three-point shooter. That's something that he's definitely improved upon since entering the league. And I actually think the Chris Middleton comparison is pretty apt. One of the things that impressed me a lot in Middleton's development was the fact that he'd kind

of become a pretty decent ball handler in the pick and roll. I think Lavert is much more of a natural pick and roll ball handler. He has great vision. And he's already proven that he's a pretty good shot. shooter. And at 6-7, you know, that's a huge advantage for whoever drafts him. Basketball player, he's way better. And so our next guy might not be on a lot of people's radars at all, just because of how buried he was on a team with more notable players. To set this up, he played for Maryland. He's not Mellow Trimble, who elected to return. He's not Diamond

Stone. He's not Jake Lehman. So who is this guy? Robert Carr, for Josh Richardson, Temple for Norman Powell. You were kind of talking about, like, it was pretty much a worst case there for him to succeed or to show what he can do. He's a big slut. He got Jake Lehman, Shulamon, Shoehah, Melo Trimble,

going to get Bucks, both trying to get their status problem all season. He had, we all want to get a bunch of numbers. He's just pretty quick. He'll have Compton to, like, Paul Millsap. And I wouldn't say he's Paul Milsape because I'm an elite lead rebounder.

Like you or elite, like a hostile top point pound in this year, Yeah, to put this in perspective, Draft Express currently has them in the 40s. And yeah, I think you just heard Chark say he would put him in the top 15, top 20. And I kind of can see where the Paul Millsap comparisons are coming from. They have very similar measurables. They both wear red. They both wear the number four.

Another guy who I kind of compared him to was early James Johnson. Similarly, they both kind of had a lot of conditioning. worries. He might not be a guy who can play heavy minutes right away. What are your thoughts on that? Well, yeah, I mean, he's a second part, good team. And be like, James Johnson, he's a better shooter in James. But he shot, so, like, he's got the physical tools to play ball, and he can play ball. I mean, he's just, like, I don't even really care honestly about the guy's stats or about a guy's, like, he's a guy all the way. I'm like, I'm looking for a guy's tools, I'm looking at his team because he's not being strong what he can do, especially with big men. If their guards, don't

shoot very much or hold the ball too much. much, it's hard as to who they can be at the college level. And we're going to end on someone you have very, very, very strong opinions on. Tell me about A.J. Hammonds out of Purdue. Well, that's my boy. AJ Hammond is a straight-up monster. I mean, he's just, he's a great basketball. He's a good stuff with Hammonds, a lot of it is off the court.

I've heard things said about him. Well, let's just say 70. It's a shot blocker. I'm going to get 2.5 blocks a game, but he gets four blocks for 40. He pretty much shuts down the paint. I watched him play Damien Jones from Vanderbilt in the non-conference. He just who just whopped them. I want to watch big men play other NBA big.

For the season, they're going to play guys who just can't put the ball out of a double team. Like, whoever drafts him, the problem is not as much a deal. He's beating skills you can play at because if you guys are going to play half. He's just as fast and he's more skilled. And I like Hammonds a lot, too. I think he has a great touch around the basket. I think he has great touch out to, you know, 20 feet. My one issue with him, other than the off-the-court issues that may or may not be the problem here, is that history doesn't really favor guys like Hammonds.

There isn't a great track record for four-year centers entering the draft. Usually, you know, the talent is so undeniable that they declare within the first two years or the red flags are just a bit too pressing. I've looked back at this since 2000. The best centers might be Channing Fry or Mason Plumley. And there are two solid players, but you know, you're going back 16 years and you're not necessarily getting a guy who's going to be, you know, a strong selection wherever the person's getting drafted. I would say mitigating circumstances.

You look at Purdue, where you're sharing the floor. center. Haas was pretty good. So it's like he's never having great per game stats. And it's kind of crazy in our advanced stats age. The only stats people actually care about are points per game and wins and losses. So if you put a bunch of points on a good team, everybody loves you. If you don't, all kinds of things. It goes back to like our scowls and compare us. A good team and you've got decent stats. You score on the same flaws and you're playing on a bad team and I'm scoring a lot. Those same flaws would be exposed a lot while we talk about. Like he just For me, I'll go into tools.

So we've talked about A.J. Hammons before, and the last time we talked about him, you promised that you would eat your hat if he wasn't going to be a good NBA player. Are you sticking with that? Yeah, I guess. It's a good expression. I mean, no, I'm not going to eat my hat. I'm not going to eat my hat for him, but it's unhockey, dude. All right, man.

I took it literally, but you know what? Let's all ride for A. He's a good player, though. Because we don't want sharks to be eating his hat anyway. Absolutely. It's bad for you, man. Anyway, I think that's all we have for our show. We'll be wrapping up our draft coverage quite soon on The Ringer. So visit The Ringer.com for more of our stuff.

Thanks, guys. Thanks, sharks. Yeah, thanks, guys.