The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 18: 2016 NBA Draft Recap With Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks

Episode Date: June 25, 2016

The Ringer's Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks discuss the Ibaka trade, the Celtics' future, and Thon Maker conspiracy theories. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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next deposit to receive a one-time $50 deposit bonus that is earned over time as you play. Plus, first-time depositors will receive a $10 credit to enter a contest. So remember, that's promo code Ringer on Yahoo Sports Daily Fantasy. Hello and welcome to another edition of The Ringer NBA show. My name is Danny Chow. I'm an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me is Ringer NBA writer Jonathan Charks. Charks, how are you? I'm good, man.

It's a crazy night last night for sure. crazy, crazy night. And I think the best place to start is probably the Surgy Baca trade. Yeah, that was nuts. Like, can I remember trade where, like, for both teams, it's just so, like, fascinating what they were thinking? So I wrote about this for The Ringer today. I'm generally a really optimistic person, and I think it kind of came off that way in the piece. But I also kind of think this is a bad short-term move for both teams? I could see it like being a win-win trade, a win-lose trade for OKC, a win-lose trade for Orlando, or a lose-lose trade for both teams.

It's really, the outcome range is huge. I'm optimistic too, so I've been kind of like talking myself into the best-case scenario for both teams, but I think the downside for both is pretty clear. Yeah, I was wondering if this kind of mirrors or parallels, and this is something we talked about, the Nick Batum trade that happened during last year's draft. What do you think about that? I think the comparisons are pretty obvious. And I also, with the Baton trade, you can kind of see Orlando's point of view. Because when Charlotte made the trade, it was like, what are they doing? They're selling off a young guy for an

older veteran who has winning with on his deal. Even if they get this guy going, they won't be a very good team. But when you miss the playoffs for what, four or five straight seasons, making the playoffs is a big deal in and of itself. Even if you are a seven seed, it does really change the mood around your team and your franchise. And when you're a veteran and you make the playoffs on kind of a bad average team, now you're the main guy there and that five-year deal is sitting there for you. I mean, I think everybody's kind of stinking but Tomb stays in Charlotte, right? Yeah. Orlando must be thinking, if Abaka makes the playoffs as the best player in Orlando, and we throw crazy money at him, he'll probably

stay. Now, well, that's right. Move the different question, but that must be the idea behind trading for a guy the last year of his deal. I just wonder if it's something where you can trust Iba to be that guy to change things around. Like, what if he really has plateaued as a player in OKC? And I know that's really ridiculous to think about. He's only 26. And he's never... That's the question now, isn't it? That was out there a lot. this year in the playoffs. I heard people talking about this. Like, is he actually 26? And I guess this goes into, you know, all of the Thonmaker stuff that we've been hearing in the past couple hours or the past couple days. But yeah, like, is, is I Baca going to be enough to even, you know,

bring them in as an eighth seed or let alone anything higher than that? Well, I think in terms of the age thing. You know, I'm a conspiracy theorist, but it does kind of make sense, right? It would explain why he's kind of plateaued. Maybe he's actually 30 years old, and his peak was four years ago, right? That kind of wouldn't make a lot of sense. I don't think he's going to get much better, no matter how old he actually is or isn't. But I do think he can't help them a lot, because if you look at Orlando, what are their two biggest problems right now? Rim protection and three-point shooting. So he fixes both those problems in one plus spot in the lineup. So I think he really makes him a lot more versatile. He improves a lot of their players and their roster's ceilings.

I think he makes Aaron Gordon a much better player. He obviously makes Nick Vucevic a much better player. I think he play him 38, 40 minutes a game, right? You're going to run him out there as much as you possibly can. I'm not sure they're going to be a shot creator, but I think they have enough guys who can run off screens for him that he can be a very valuable offensive player. And he can be a huge, I think he's having a really big season for Orlando. And you know we what would deploy playing for a contract. Do you think that Vogel would be able to deploy Avutchevich, Ibaka, and Aaron Gordon Frontline, like them playing together?

I think if he wants to, oh, like all three of them. All three of them together. I'm sure he'll try it, knowing how he played in Indiana. But I assume the more likely road to success is kind of moving them as a three-men rotation. And he's going to want to win, right? So either they're going to win playing three-them together or he's going to adjust. I don't think he's going to be that stubborn. I really like this move from my very personal bias of being in favor of Mario Hizonia.

I caught a little bit of heat by saying that he would be a top two pick in this draft. I kind of stand by it, though. I really do believe in his potential. And this is even after a year in which he looked miserable playing for Scott Skiles. I mean, I think we talked about Mario in the last podcast. Like, I don't hold it against him, that's for sure. A rookie with a kind of a veteran coach on a team wanting to win, not playing. playing well. I think people definitely, they over-emphasize sometimes the importance of the rookie

season because of all they've seen. Like, the tool is still there, the potential is still there. And to me, it, like, means they're going to keep Fornier. In my opinion, I'm not sure if he's in a hot take anymore, but I would take Fornié and Hizonia over Ola Depot. So what are your thoughts on Ola Depot for the Thunder, though? I think he could, I think that, I can see in this way of being a win-win. I think he'll be a much better player for Oklahoma City when he's part of a supporting cast as opposed to when he was in Orlando being forced to be the man, which I think at this point we have seen now that was stretching him beyond his capabilities a little bit. Because when he was great Indiana, he was

kind of like the second option of Cody Zeller. He wasn't just holding the ball the entire game and directing the offense. He was slashing, moving off the ball, running the floor, being a hustle defender guy. And that's what we can do in Oklahoma City. And the flip side of that is, and the flip side of that is look how bad Dion Waiters looked in Cleveland, and now he became a good player in Oklahoma City. So Ola Dippo was an average player in Orlando, maybe he can become a really good player in Oklahoma City. I think that's definitely on the table. Yeah, I loved watching Ola Dippo on pick and roll defense this year. I think, you know, Vutchevich kind of made him look bad at times, but he's a really promising

physical defender. I love that his three-point shooting numbers have really improved as the season. progressed. He had a really rough first 25 games, but since January 1st of this year, he was shooting, you know, 39% from 3. So if that is a more accurate indication of who he can be, then I'm really optimistic. How do you see OKC's rotation spinning out right now? Um, that's a good question. I guess you would have to start the game, at least, with Cantor in the starting lineup, but you would probably stagger that and you would have KD play a good bit of time at the four.

So does that mean Roberson's coming off the bench? Yes. See, I was thinking it'd be they'd move Roberson to four and play Westbrook, Old Depot, KD, Roberson, Adams, and then can turn Dian off the bench. But I mean, I'm just spitballing now. I have no idea. They'd be a lot faster that way.

They would be. The other big news coming out of this draft was obviously Danny Aange and what he was going to do with the number three. three and what he was going to do with all of his other 600 picks that he had. So I guess the biggest question here after their haul is, where do you think the Celtics go from here? I'd assume they're still banging on for trades, right? They're just kind of like running on the league. They got to stop leaking trade demands, though. It's getting ridiculous. Like, just stop. It makes them look bad

all these trades that are out there. I mean, make a deal or don't, please. Yeah, I think it's kind of strange that Danny Age has kind of taken up this new mantle as like the new Sam Hinky. Like so he has so many assets, but he has so little time to actually deal with them. And when you kind of take on this persona as being like this king of assets, you're not necessarily going to be making a lot of friends and trade conversations. You know, the whole situation kind of reminded me of last year's draft where we were kind of waiting the entire night for Hinky to have this huge moment, but it never really came. Well, I mean, I think, obviously, being the third pick, he was kind of boxing a bit.

There just wasn't much demand for what he was selling, which I think has been the problem in Boston this whole time. He's been trying to sell, you know, four cores into a dollar. And I think eventually the Marcos cousin is going to be made available. I'd assume if I started drafting so many centers, I don't really see why else they would do that. So maybe that's a long-term play. I has to be, right? Yeah, and there's a lot of overlap with the guys they drafted, but that's kind of what happens when you go into a draft with eight picks and you only make one trade on the night. What do you see in their haul from last night? I mean, I like, I guess start from the West important players. I like Bent Till and Jackson, but I'm assuming

they're not going to make the team. I don't look at their roster, but there's no way they have room for six rookies or are they going to bring in those two Europe? I think Zich is for sure staying in Europe, right? Who? Zizich. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think so. He's definitely a draft and such. I think Yibousselaet will find his way. This season? Yeah. I don't know if you draft him that high. Although that pick kind of reminded me of the Bruno Caboclo pick from two years ago where Danny Age might have been a little bit paranoid that another team was going to swoop in on him.

And so he kind of jumped on that pick a little early. Yeah, I haven't watched much Yibush. How do you say his name? I don't know, but I'm guessing it's Yibussela. I haven't watched that much of him, so what do you think? Do you think he can play right away or see a long-term pick? I saw that Bill had tossed out the French Dremont Green comparison, and I mean, I get it.

The body type, the physicality is there. He can shoot. He can clearly shoot. He's strong as hell. But the big thing with Dremont for me is that, you know, he's an outstanding defender and he's an outstanding passer. Those are the two things that really separate him from. from any other player in the league.

And I don't know if Yubuselais necessarily has that right now. And I don't know if he projects to have it, especially at that level in the future. That's funny you say that, because I think the best case scenario for Jalen Brown is to play him like an Ersatz, Draymond Green at the 4, I think. It's to have him as like a big power wing who could switch screens,

roll to the rim, make three on four play. He's an interesting guy because he was in such a tough spot at Cal. I think we've talked about him on earlier podcast, but that team was a disaster from start to finish. So much talent, so little floor spacing, so little offensive structure. And for as bad as he looked at times at Cal, and there were games where he looked awful.

When Tyrone Wallace was injured, and this was the guy that jazz drafted the last pick in the second round, kind of an MCW starter kit, when he wasn't out there and there was more space on the floor, and Brown was kind of like the point forward, he had some like seven eight assist games so maybe in Boston in a spread floor at the floor maybe that's who he could be in like three or four years like he has a pretty high floor and a

pretty high ceiling but I feel like his median is much closer to his floor than the ceiling if that makes sense and he's definitely going to need to work on his jumper even though you know he he had made what 76 out of 100 at his most recent Boston workout I wonder if that that meant anything to the Boston people. You would think so. And I was like, I was talking some of the day about this. Like, I don't buy those workouts too much. Because it's really easy to shoot when you're in rhythm in an empty gym, shooting

100 times in a row. It's much harder to shoot when you take one shot every five minutes and set defense. It's a whole different ball game. So at this point, I just think the Celtics need to be patient. You know, the 2017 draft class is something that I've personally been anticipating for years now. You know, Boston can kind of keep playing with house money for as long as they keep getting these nets first round picks. Yeah.

Though I will say, I guess this is not the right podcast for it. But, like, I think there's a lot of really good players in 2017. Yeah. From what I watched at the McDonald's game, I didn't see Harry Giles, but I didn't see any, like, surefire superstars either. Like, when I saw Carl Towns two years ago. But that's a different podcast, I'm guessing. Me and Tate are all in on Harry Giles.

Well, that's two ACLs at 18, you know. Tate's shaking's head. So maybe I put him on the spot. out there. Miss a lot of, that's two. I mean, one is one thing, too, is says you have some structural problems in your knees, I'm guessing. Yeah, I mean, this is definitely for another podcast, but there are some sad Quincy Miller

peril. Oh, Quincy Miller. Don't even bring him up. My heart is beating still. Oh, yeah. Love Quincy Miller. Yeah, and I wonder if they can continue doing this kind of charade for much longer, playing on that Sam Hinky timeline.

I don't know how long they could keep going with this asset accumulation. I feel like teams are starting to realize that maybe the Celtics aren't as close to being title contenders as they want to be. I don't think anyone thinks they're contenders right now, all right? Yeah. Maybe Bill does. No offense, Bill, but no. So we'll get back to the Celtics in a second, but before we do that,

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Enter promo code Ringer NBA. Seekek will send you $20 after you've made your first ticket purchase. Download the free Seekek app and enter promo code Ringer NBA today. Another interesting pick that happened was the number six pick with the Pelicans. They drafted Buddy Heald. We have expressed our opinions on Buddy Heald a lot over the last couple podcasts. but do you think New Orleans made the right pick here? I really don't.

And I was thinking about it this morning with New Orleans. And what really kind of bothers me about this whole team is they never found a two-way front-court player next to Anthony Davis. They got Anderson who cannot guard, and they have Ashtick who cannot score to save his life. And to me, that really limits the ceiling of this team. And when you have a number six pick in the draft, and you have Anthony Davis,

let me get another front-court player who can compliment him. Like, who's the best front court player they've had in terms of two-way player? Quincy Pondexter? I mean, really? Oof. Yeah, and I mean, did he log any minutes at the four?

I don't even know. I mean, they've had a lot of very limited players next to AD's entire career, and I think this was a chance to rectify that, and they went with the more, the safer pick, the short-term, instant gratification pick. Well, me personally, I would have swung for the fences.

So would you have, have drafted Chris who was available at that spot. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I would just said, let's just go for it. We got Holiday, we got Davis. Let's just go for it. I mean, I'm not a big healed fan.

He'll be a nice player, sure. But number six in the draft, this is the one year Davis was, I guess he wasn't healthy. He was healthy. Everybody else was hurt. They probably won't draft this high again for a long time. Let's just make a gamble a little bit. You've got a Davis for four more years anyways.

Right. I feel like this decision with Buddy Heald was kind of telegraphed for weeks. I just think the franchise needed a morale boost. They had one of the most snake-bitten seasons I've ever seen. You know, they wanted a brand name. They wanted the marketing boost. He's a good guy. He's a maniacally hard worker.

You know, after a season like last year, I think all signs kind of pointed to them going for a safe option. See, I hate that logic, though. Like, rookies don't sell tickets anyways unless they're like super. Brossom right away, like they're Blake Griffin or something. Like Buddy Heald's a quote-unquote brand name. How many New Orleans basketball fans know who he is really? Not that many. Like, oh, that was a guy at OU who was in the Final Four, yeah.

Like really fast, if he's putting up eight points a game, no one's going to care. Like, to me, you have to think long-term, get the best upside player. You just have to. You cannot be thinking short-term in the draft. That's right for disaster. Yeah, I'm more speaking toward, you know, the logic that the Pelicans had going into this. And really, they really did need to shore up their back court.

I mean, Eric Gordon is going to be gone in a few weeks. Tireke Evans is going to be gone the following offseason. They needed something. And knowing that, you know, Healed is going to be given a high priority on the roster. I think Alvin Gentry might be able to find ways to make him successful as, you know, a third option. But isn't Ryan Anderson going to be gone too this offseason most likely? Right. And I cannot play O'Mara Shick anymore.

I can't watch him play basketball any longer. But would you be comfortable throwing Chris into the fire immediately? I think next to Davis and Holiday, he'd be okay. And here's a real hot take for you. Like, I love Subonis. I want to find him at 6. I don't even care. Me and Sam Presti are on the aisle all by ourselves.

I think he has a much harder thing people to realize. I'm a really big Sub bonus guy. Yeah, I think in my piece today, talking about the surje abac trade, I had mentioned that Sabonis doesn't necessarily give the Thunder anything that Cantor or Mitch McGarry. Oh, shenanigans. I'm calling shenanigans on that. Okay, well, I'll let you have that then.

So another guy down the lottery who kind of projects to be, you know, a versatile big man who can do a lot of things. It was the first huge shock of the night, and it was something that we'd been given advance warning to was Thonmaker going number 10 to the bucks. What do you think about this? Yeah, I don't even know where to begin with Thonmaker. Like, can you believe this story?

Like, in the year 2015, you're going to try to pull, like, the Danny O'Monte and get away with it? Like, how could you think that was going to work? Like, I guess I believe Reddit's little investigative reporting. You still the whole story, right? Yeah, like I saw it. I don't know if I, I don't know if I fully believe it, but like I accept that it is a reality that is out there. I mean, I don't understand how they, like, they got the guy dead to rights.

He's playing it with, because what they had was the guy from the AFL, Susan showed or something, on his class, who was born 92. So unless Thon Maker coming from like a refugee war-torn country is being moved up three years ahead of his grade class, which seems pretty unlikely to me. he's older than he said he was. And why bother? Like, he's still seven foot one. What was the point of his whole charade? Like, that's what really blows my mind. I find this kind of heartwarming somehow.

Like, he's sidestepped all of these scandals. He's sidestepped all of these rumors about his fake age. He's, you know, he's emerged from all of this, and now he's a top 10 pick. Yeah. Like, he's been able to kind of sidestep all of this. He's been able to step away from that. really small honeymoon period where everyone thought he was, you know, a cross between Chris Paul and Kevin Durant in those two-minute highlight clips.

And, you know, after that, everyone was talking about, oh, you know, he doesn't really know the game. He doesn't really play that way. And yet, here he is. He's still a top 10 pick. Yeah, I guess one more thing before he gets on this ask for basketball ability. Like, those that make those mixtapes hilarious in retrospect. You got this grown man-killing middle schoolers, like, just crushing them. Like, oh my God, he's a nice Kevin to her hand.

He's got like five years in these kids. He's just doing him up. It's incredible. Like, I basically wrote about that. I wrote about Thonmaker about a year and a half ago for Grantland. And it wasn't really about him as a prospect, but more about how he was kind of the perfect storm in terms of how highlights and how people were hyped in the social media age,

especially when it was during a time when Vine started to really pick up as a way to showcase highlights. Yeah, you've watched them more than I have. Like, do you think he has a pretty high floor? He is some foot one. He seems like he's reasonably skilled in athletic, right? I don't know. Yeah, like, he's definitely not a freak athlete, but he's coordinated.

And from all of the interviews I've seen from him, he's such a polished person in terms of talking about. So, you know. Yeah, so he talks the game very well, and he clearly cares about getting better as a player. I feel like Milwaukee is definitely the team that will be able to foster him in a way that will showcase the ability he has. Well, here's what I heard. I've heard that I was a J-Kid power play move the whole way because there's the whole Jeff Schwartz angle, too. The fact that he's rep by J-Kid's agent, same guy as Rashad Vaughn and Snow, two years in a row of the drafting Jeff Schwarz clients. I love that so much.

I'm a conspiracy guy all the way, so I wonder about that. I love that so much. I love Jason Kidd as a coach. I love what he's done with Janus. I love what he will be doing with Thon. This is going to be great. I'm in. Yeah, I mean, like, theoretically, yeah, Thon, Jabari, Janus, that's Middleton.

That's super long, super switchable, very skilled. If Thon could just shoot, can Thon shoot? What's advert on that? He's shown glimpses of a jumper, but like, again, we don't have any, like, data to really back-end. any of this up. Like, anecdotally, I've seen him make a jumper. Well, that works for me then. Sure. Yeah, he looked pretty good doing it. I've never seen Simmons make a jump shot, so there you go. That's something.

Yeah, I might not have ever seen him attempt a jump shot. So. I think he'll be the number one guy at Vegas, right? Everyone's not want to watch. Edemorton Simmons and Ingram. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just to just to see what the hype is about. Absolutely. Because if he does any of those crossover, that he was trying in high school, I think the entire Thomas and Macarino would just, like, explode.

Oh, definitely, definitely. I'm rooting for him for sure. What a crazy story. Like, I think that's what you were saying. He's from Sudan, right, and the refugee thing. He's in a tough life for sure. Hope he makes it. He's been all over the world.

Started off in Australia, then went over to a pretty shady school in Canada, found his way down in Virginia, too, at some point. he's been all over, and the fact that he's gotten to this point really is a testament to everyone he's surrounded himself with. He can be like an older brother to Jonas. Okay, so it's summer Friday. I think we'll wrap this up a little early, but I would love to hear your favorite moment of the draft yesterday. Oh, my favorite moment, you asked them for the draft.

I really wish I thought about this for your asking this question. I love what the Sons did. I wrote about this on the ringer today. I love the Bender Chris possibilities. Like, I love when you can beat two lot of picks together at the same time, who do different things. Could it just make your team supposed to be interesting over the three, five-year window. Like, to me, they're a very, very watchable team now,

with those two Bledso, Devin Booker, I guess Brandeis still, whatever. T.J. Warren, Alex Len. They're a really fun thing to watch right now. Yeah, they're going to be super exciting. and just think, like, we wrote two really big pieces on these guys, Chris and Bender. Like, the sons are basically team ringer. There we go. That's a good point.

Yeah, they're team obscure NBA ringer, pretty much. That's what I was saying in the article. They're the new draft hipsters' favorite teams. We have to like them now. Yeah, I'm all in. They're going to be absolutely, if not the youngest, one of the youngest teams in the NBA. Do you think they're going to move my guy Tyson-Shandler, or he can be like a very veteran presence there. I don't know.

You know, Tyson Chandler has a ring. I really don't think he cares too much. We're going to pay the way. He don't think he cares more. Yeah, exactly. 53 million. Right, right. Good money, Tyson. So when this happened, I'm about to tell you my favorite moment of the draft. I was locked in my office quarter. I pretty much put myself in a cage to write about the Sergei Baga trade the second it was announced. So I didn't even watch the draft while it was going on. I had to catch up, I think it was around 11 when I finally had the time to look at the actual draft results. So I missed all of this in real time, but holy crap, the Giorgio's Papayana's

pick at number 13 was incredible. Like, I think it might be my favorite draft pick in the last 10 years. I guess it was like, remember Raphael Orujo? I mean, I'm not saying he's Raphael Rujo, but it was that kind of like, whoa, that came out of nowhere. Well, I, yeah, and aside here, I was, I was making some Rafael Arrucho, like, jokes with the Yaka-Purdle pick, because it just fits so well. Like, I don't know what the Raptors are doing. But anyway, this is, this feels so far beyond, like, zinging when other teams are zagging. Like, I know that's something you've kind of pinpointed on yesterday, but, you know, the Kings just drafted, like, an enormous child to, pair with other enormous children.

Like, you kind of joked about how the Kings might be playing three centers at once in your piece today. But let's talk this out. You know, like, DeMarcus Cousins has become almost a league average three-point shooter. Willie Collie Stein is pretty much as fast as most threes in the NBA. And Papayanas is an enormous child who can rum. Look, let's do this. I mean, they got a coach who can play in tight space.

is right. Dave Yerger's used to running constricted offense. I mean, then you can play Rondo 2 and F no shooting at all on the floor whatsoever, right? Just go completely haywire. And you got Malachi and Ben McLemore hanging around doing something. Yeah, I mean, Rondo's looking at this roster

and he's like, I'm out. Where's he going to go? He's staying in Sacramento. If they pay him, they'll stay. He's going to the Nets. Oh, that's, oh my gosh. Yeah, he's a total Nets player. Well, they got the guy from the Spurs now. Maybe they're new quote unquote

Nets thing. I think that a little Isaiah White had just go crazy next year. That would be a fun thing to watch too. It was Isaiah Whitehead taking 25 shots a game. I'm in on that train as well. So yeah. Like I think every impartial observer of the Kings has kind of waited for the dysfunction of

this entire front office between Vivek and Vlad A. I think we've all kind of wanted it to translate on the court. But really in the past two years, the Kings have just kind of been irregular bad. This is the time to be like spectacularly bad. Or spectacularly good, who knows? Maybe they got

the whole... Maybe they're ahead of the rest of the league. Maybe they're actually light years ahead. They're so far behind their head or something. I don't know. Giant ball. I'm in. Right. Let's get... Let's do it. Let's turn the league upside down. Let's play five stars at once. It could cost Coupis out there too. And Scal. Scal can shoot. He can be the suiting guard. Oh, I love this. I love this. Okay. Anyway, I think that's all I have in me.

But we should dare to dream. Thanks as always, Charks. Thanks again, man. And thanks for listening.