The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 22: NBA Free Agency Roundup With Bill Simmons

Episode Date: July 15, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons moonlights on today's 'Ringer NBA Show' with Ringer executive editor Chris Ryan, with each giving his hometown perspective on the Celtics and Sixers, respectively. Then they offer some broad perspective on the status of the league, including where Russell Westbrook might end up, how to make the NBA season last 12 months, and predictions for the new-look Knicks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Bill Simmons. I'm here with Chris Ryan. Today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Seekek, the only fan-friendly app for buying and selling tickets for sports and music. It's also the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast. To get your $20 rebate on tickets, download the free Seekek app, go to the settings tab and click add a promo code, enter promo code Ringer MBA, and Seek will send you $20 after you've made your first ticket purchase. the free Seeky Gap and enter promo code Ringer NBA today.

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Hey, Chris Ryan. Hey, Bill Simmons. HBO's Chris Ryan. HBO's streaming. I'm more of a streaming guy. HBO now is Chris Ryan. Yeah. You run linear.

Yeah. I like when they call it linear. Late late night linear. It was almost like the public access version of linear. Yeah. You're a big Philly fan. Philly. Actually, we're going to save that.

I have lingering NBA summer questions. So Philly's not my first one. That's heartbreaking. It will be soon. It will be soon. I think Philadelphia is going to go up the power rankings of people's interests. All right. Let's start there.

Okay. Can the Sixers make the playoffs next year? No. But I think that they will be better than the Nets. I think that they will be better than some teams in the Eastern Conference. They will be in the middle of the pack. Do they have a trade to make?

Because I keep looking at a Jalilal Okafer for Zach Levine trade trying to figure out who says no. I don't think that Minnesota does that because I just think that Zach Levine feels like the kind of guy that Tibbs takes into a dark, cold room and puts on a VHS tape of like... How to play defense?

Yeah, or like some tape that he wants him to see and he's just like, he gets Zach Levine to a next level. And he, I think Zach Levine has... a lot of potential. That just seems like a throwaway. Would you do that trade if you're the Sixers? Oh yeah, in a heartbeat. Really? Yeah, sure. Yeah. I want more wing players. We have like a great collection of front line. I mean, I don't really know what we're going to do with all those guys. I think that they're taking this now. I'm actually, I've been really impressed of what Brian Colangelo has done almost in this hinky karaoke act that he's been playing all summer.

He's made every right choice. He's done to good deals. Did you see what he did to the Spurs? I loved it. And in fact, I love when teams do that And I wish everybody did that Like that's what the Netscher did have done all summer That was the Neil Olshey Canter move I thought you want cancer

Now he's gonna cost you $80 million Why hasn't anyone done that to Oklahoma City yet? I don't know with waiters right Waiters Yeah just do one year 20 million And then they have to either match or let him go And they have the Westbrook renegotiation That we're going to talk about a little bit

But I love those power plays I thought Well we're going to wait to talk about the Nets The Sixers really need a guard Yes Because, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a point guard. No, that's why I was really excited about the idea of when, I think this was talked about, I don't think it would have ever worked, but Okafore being used, getting Boston's third pick

and getting somebody, whether it was Jamal Murray or Christon or somebody who could play on a. Boston really thought they were getting Horford, which is why they didn't want to do that. That's good that they were so confident. Yeah. Or somebody like that. They didn't feel like they needed a trade. they really wanted to use that pick on somebody who could defend multiple positions. Yeah, if they're going to keep it.

The jury is still out on whether they should have taken Chris Dunn with that pick, though. Yeah, I can see why they maybe feel like they had a bunch of guys like Chris Dunn and that Jalen Brown can guard three positions. So that makes sense to me. I mean, take Chris Dunn and just hope you can move him immediately. Right. Like the question to me is, was Jalen Brown the best asset at number three? Or does Chris Dunn that much more attractive to Chicago or something like that for Butler?

Right. Like, let's say Oklahoma City can't agree with Westbrook right now. And they're like, damn it, we need to trade them. Chris Dunn helps us get Russell Westbrook if he's actually in the table. I don't know if Jalen Brown is as much of a help. Yeah. Now, you could argue Isaiah Thomas with Jalen Brown, with a Brooklyn pick, is as good as anybody's going to be able to offer for Westbrook.

That doesn't feel like a lot for Westbrook. This is the thing. Danny Chow wrote something about this about Westbrook the other day, where it's like Westbrook's value is. so bizarre because if you're trading for him, you're trading, you almost, you're trading for a new system of your team, right? Like, you have to bend so much around Russell. It's going to be so weird to watch Russell on another team and play his way into some kind of, like, usability on that team. It's so strange to think about him not being the guy who dominates the ball who

gets so much, who gets so much usage on a team. He's never played for a great coach. Donovan had some moments in the playoffs, but other than that, he really hasn't played with somebody remotely like Stevens. So how much would you give up for him? See, I feel like Isaiah is one of the best 20 to 25 players in the league. He made the All-Star team last year. He's somewhere between 20 and 20. If you made a list, he would be, he'd probably pop up somewhere between 22 and 27. So he could replace Westbrook. He could replace 80% of his scoring for OKC. And then if you get Jalen Brown, too. as well, and you get this Brooklyn pick, which everyone's saying next year's draft or the year

after, I mean, both of them are gold mines, apparently. And I'm Oklahoma City. I think he's leaving anyway. How do I not do that? I mean, it's way more than what they, when they decided to do the harden trade a year before he became a restricted free agent, this is a way bigger deal. I mean, he's a much better player. But if you think you're losing him in a year, if you think he's out, I think they have to trade him. This is going to be one of my big questions to you. Do you have to trade Westbrook? You absolutely have to trade Westbrook. this renegotiation rule, which is what Houston just did with Hardin. Yeah.

And if they have enough cap space, they can basically bump Westbrook up this year. Right. Which is why some team should try to screw them over with Dan Waiters right now because it would make it impossible for them to renegotiate Westbro. Is this thing that you were talking about that Curry could do this year with House a couple weeks ago? He could have. Now he can't. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Now he can't. But with Westbrook, they could bump him up like Houston do with Hardin. He could make $26 million much faster. Right. A year. So do you think the fact that he hasn't done that? He hasn't agreed to that.

that that pretty much means he's either that he wants to see how the season plays out or that he's gone. Well, we don't know. We don't even know if they've talked about it with him. We don't know what he's said. We don't know if they've approached him. They're still trying to figure out their team. But it's going to, like around September, they're going to have to look at this and say, is he coming back? If he's not coming back, we're not winning the title with the team we have.

We have to trade them right now. And you have the Celtics that are ready to spring. The weird thing is if you go around the league, there's only a couple places that could resign them. Right. And also, where it would make sense for the team to make the trade and still be able to contend for a title. Yeah.

Like the Celtics, if they gave up Isaiah and the Jalen Brown and the Brooklyn pick, all they're really doing is altering last year's team now with Russell Westbrook and Al Horford. Right. And a team that won 48 games. Right. Does that team win the East?

It's fighting. better than Toronto. The crunch time would be Westbrook with Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart, Crowder, Horford, and I don't know who else. Let's think about that perimeter defense, though, for a second.

Akeed in Westbrook with Avery, Bradley, and Marcus Smart. Yeah, maybe you play those three together with Crowder and Horford. Yeah. That's not bad. That's a really good team. Yeah. But that's the thing that's fascinating about this Westbrook question is that we're kind of back to where,

it kind of reminds me of Carmela right like when Carmela left Denver where there was it was only going to be to a team that was going to be able to resign them and the team has to not do what New York did where basically they put themselves out of contention for five years because of the amount of assets they gave up

so that's why I don't know if Miami works Miami would be a logical place but even if they traded like Winslow and Draggich I don't know who does Miami the other one that could work is the Lakers because you can make a case like we'll get you now and next summer we'll get more people.

Right. And we'll give up DeAngel, Russell, and Brandon Ingram and maybe something else. But that's a huge thing. That's a huge amount to give up for a guy that you might be able to get at the end of next season. If you trade for him in September, you can renegotiate the deal. Yeah. So, and if I'm Westbrook and I've already had, I think he's had at least one surgery on his knee. Yeah, but if you're Westbrook and you've got, like, Westbrook seems like he eats meniscus

tears for breakfast. It doesn't see. It seems like he comes back stronger. He's a rope at. Yeah, Dr. James Andrews is going to open him up and find titanium inside of his legs. So if I'm saying Presti, I go to Westbrook after Labor Day, I create the cap space for him, and I go, we want to sign you to do an extension. Okay. We want to renegotiate right now.

Here's all the money. You can stay here for the next four years. And if Westbrook says no, I think you have to trade him. You absolutely have to trade him. because he cannot come out of this generation of players with nothing to show for it, with Stephen Adams to show for it, and Victor Oladipo.

You can't have Abacca Harden, Duran, and Westbrook, lose all of them, and have Stephen Adams and Victor Oladipo to show for it. And Sabonis. That would be criminal. It's a bonus. Come on. No, I'm just, I mean, it's...

Yeah, sure. Like all the other pieces that they've had, but you can't have that hall and then turn around and say, well, we tried our best. Are there any other, you have to replace Westbrook with a guard? Yeah. Are there any other guards out there?

I mean, Dragich isn't somebody there. That's the thing. If you go around the league, they have to get somebody who's at least an all-star close to replace the creator version of what Westbrook brings. And it's just you look around. Yeah, none of the Phoenix guys. I was trying to think of the Phoenix guys. And it's just like, do you really-

If the Phoenix guys were better, it would make sense, right? Yeah. If it was like, if Eric Buzzo was a reliable, All-Star, and you could flip Blitz-O, a dragon bender into Westbrook. That makes sense. And you have to have a guy the right point in his career and contract where going to Oklahoma City, he's not just like, when do I get to leave Oklahoma City? That's the other thing.

You have to not only find a partner that's going to be able to keep Westbrook, you have to bring pieces back that are going to be willing to stay. What if Minnesota said Chris Dunn, Zach Levine, and our next three first-round picks spaced out every other year? I would say to me if I'm Minnesota I'm like Chris Dunn I don't know if I can resign Westbrook so it has to be just Chris Dunn's Aklevene that's it I but what if Westbrook says I'll go there I think Towns is amazing I can win a title on that team see I don't think he plays in Minnesota that's and that's the thing if you go through all these different teams the list just whittles down yeah yeah it's like so I mean we don't know the thing about Westbrook is he's such

He's so difficult, nobody really knows anything about him. I mean, for all I know, he loves the winter. For all I know, he thinks snow is a gas. He just wants to check it out. Like, I don't know that he wants to come back to the Lakers or wants to come back to LA. Yeah, sure. I don't know if he likes it for basketball, but he may not have that thing where he's like,

I have to live in L.A. full all year round. You know, I mean, there was all that, and I think it was like counter-programming, but there was all that stuff that came out of immediately after Durant, where you saw stuff and it's like, people think, this is going to be Westbrooks out, but it's only going to make him more resolved to stay. I mean, he hasn't made any public statements yet to suggest that, which I think the longer that goes on, a little bit more worrying it is. It's not, it's not like he's on Snapchat. It's not like he couldn't just be like, I love my Thunder buddies.

Like, we're going to keep it going. I wonder if both him and Durant just got tired of living there. And one of the reasons Durant left was because neither of them, both of them knew the other one wanted to go. It's so hard to tell now because so many of the pieces, so many of the articles that are coming out of this now feel like, not planted, but like very specific. specifically motivated to make someone look bad, make someone look better. So whether it's, you know, Durant was frustrated with the lack of fluidity and how Westbrook dominated the ball and it just didn't work. And then there was like, you know, Durant very specifically told the Chinese media that

interviewed him, but he was just like, I don't think we'll ever be the same. So you get the feeling like that relationship fell apart a little bit. But at the end when he told him that he was leaving, it's really hard to tell what's real with this. I agree. I also, uh, I keep thinking about. about, all right, let's say Westbrook's on the Celtics. What does that look like?

And I keep going back to, I guess it would be like 15, 16 months ago when Durant was out. And it was like the Westbrook show. And he was shooting 30 to 35 times a game. And I didn't think he was a great teammate. I thought he was a ball hog. Yeah, I remember who he was playing with. I got a roster was a lot worse than the one that they went to the playoffs with last year. I get it.

My question is, if he goes to a team like the Celtics, could he fit in? or would he have to be like, I'm here. This is my show. You're all my supporting cast. I don't know. I don't know what his mindset is. Would you rather have Westbrook or Jamie Butler? Oh, Westbrook.

Yeah? I don't think there's any question. I think Westbrook, I think there's only seven players in the league that truly matter right now. If you're trying to win a title and he's one of the seven. But I'm asking because of this scenario you're setting up where a Boston team that has like this incredible harmony and equilibrium seemingly is like thrown out. like a seesaw, Westbrook jumps on one end and it all kind of gets messed up. Whereas Butler seems like he has played within a system a little bit more over the last few years. Westbrook is the system.

I was talking to Carl, one of our interns at the ringer, who's from Boston. And we were talking about how Westbrook, putting him in Boston would be the single most fascinating personality experiment that's happened in Boston sports since Manny. and it might even be more fascinating because I think the fans would love him I think they would just love him he plays so hard it would just be like a lot of what like the fans loved with KG

just like they just love it they love guys who are wired like that and I think the media would hate him yeah I think they would take shots at him that they would say you can't win a title of them he shoots too much he's a bad team like all the old white guys in the Boston media

this would be like the worst guy to put in to Boston sports and it would be fat that alone would be riveting I would just like it if there was a couple of more guys like that in the Eastern Conference just to balance it out. So that there was a little bit, I think that the Eastern Conference is dying for a little bit more competition. And right now it's just kind of like it's LeBron. It's like a Raptors team where they're like kind of the East Coast version, Eastern Conference version of the Clippers where they're just like, oh, you're just going to run this back.

Yeah. You know exactly how good you are. You're just going to run it back to same guys. With a little bit worse. Yeah. Hawks. Well, let me ask you just as a pure basketball fan because you don't, you don't care where Westbrook plays. that doesn't affect you.

You just like watch a basketball. Is it more fun for you if he's on Oklahoma City with a chip on his shoulder going, F this, we don't need to rant. I'm going to win this title. Is that more fun or it would be more fun to see him on the Celtics in a new city in Boston with a team that's a contender with Brad Stevens and all that stuff that goes with it? What's more fun? I desperately want Thunder Warriors Christmas Day.

Yeah. And I want to watch that, I mean, because that's just such a recipe for, you know, Westbrook throwing of basketball at Draymond's face as hard as he possibly can. Yeah. But, you know, I think ultimately, like, you just realize how short the, small the windows are. And I watched it with Iverson with guys who are incredibly physical players like Westbrook is. I want to see his prime matter. I want to see him in late postseason.

So I would, I would want to see him. And also, I think because there's going to be such a. It's going to be assumed that the Warriors are going to win 80 games and win the championship next year. Any place where you can get some increased competition would be great. And to have a sort of side battle between LeBron and Westbrook in the Eastern Conference and have Boston and Cleveland have a rivalry and have a little bit of juice there would be great. It's going to suck if we have to watch an entire Eastern Conference playoffs where it's just inevitable that we're going to have the rubber match of Warriors Cleveland.

I think people are overestimates. how good this Warriors team is going to be for the first four, five, six months. It's really hard to just change the continuity of what you've been doing and just throw in a piece. Like even with the KG Ray Paul Celtics, which I think they finished like 65 or 66. And it took that team six, seven months to get used to each other. I mean, the Hawks in round one took them to seven. It takes a while. Basketball, and I think this has been what's been great about the Warriors these last few years.

is that they kept their dudes together. And when there was tension or crisis or things falling apart around the road, you have the familiarity of the teamwork and knowing where guys are and what they do, it becomes so helpful. And it's going to be rocky with Durant. Like they're going to use him as a point forward at the top of the key. That's where Draymond was.

Drayman's got to move to the left. Then is Draymond's going to want sometimes? Then Curry versus Durant. I think that needs to play itself out. We saw it with Miami. Remember LeBron and Wade how weird that was the first year? You always talk about alpha dogs and guys wanting the ball. This isn't even an alpha dog.

Well, no, that's what I'm saying is that I think that in a weird way, I have no, I don't really have a criticism. It's not my favorite move ever, but I think that it was really more that Durant went to Golden State that annoys people. It's not that he left Oklahoma City. Yeah. But if anything, the sense that I'm getting from everything you read about this situation is that Duran is kind of passive. And Duran doesn't mind, might not mind being Harrison Barnes for a little while. if it means having a really good time with his friends in a new cool city and winning an NBA title. I don't want to betray.

That was Jerry West's pitch. It's going to be easy. It's going to be so much easier for you. I don't want to betray the person that told me this, but it was one of the top 25 porters of all time. Okay. And they told me a while ago, like four or five years ago, that Westbrook was the alpha on that team, not Durant. And that Westbrook was the guy. and that as great as Durant was, he's actually, Westbrook, who's good for him.

Yeah. And I don't agree with that. I mean, that might have been the case four or five years ago. The Duran I saw in the Warriors series, I thought he was amazing in that series. He didn't shoot the ball that well. But that was everything I wanted from Duran as a basketball player. Like he was basically point forward on one end. He's playing the four and the five on defense.

Blocking shots, Junker Wings. Like he was awesome. So that's what makes me think, like, I might be underestimating how good this team could be right away because of how good of a basketball player is how easy it is to fit into another system. Yeah. And then the fact that they can always have Curry or Doran on the floor. So you can pay 48 minutes a game with one of the three best offensive players on the floor. Like, that's the part that scares me. This is, I just feel like sometimes with the amount of, like, the way the offensive, offenses work and the way the defense.

Vince's work. At the end of the day, it's just pick your poison, and there is no epipen for the thunder. There is no cure for one of those guys being open. I think Draymond would be the thing I would look at for if this doesn't go well in year one. Because he was the one last year, like he'd go rogue a couple times. They had the famous locker room thing. Like he is, he's not an easy guy to coach. I think he's an awesome competitor. Plays hard. You know he brings the table, but he does have an ego. And if he's just pushed to the side, it's like, all right, Jramon, you're not our point forward anymore. I think the triple double thing meant something to him. And I think, like, how well he played in game seven. It was amazing in game seven in the finals. It was incredible

in game seven. He's not ready to be a supplementary guy, as my point. Is there anything to, like, all the one-year rental element? I mean, I know that Durant says he doesn't want to go through the free agency process again, but like Curry's coming up, Durant. The guy I'm kind of, I don't think he'll ever kick, but I do kind of wonder about Clay. Because I I felt like Clay was really on the ver- I mean, we're just concerned trolling at this point. You got to do it if you're looking at a team that it's hard to imagine them losing

if they're all healthy. But with Clay, I thought he was really getting up to the point where you could consider him one of the best two-way players in the NBA. I think he's definitely in my top ten. I think he's going to be able to diminish this year. I don't think he's going to get as many shots.

He's not going to get as many looks. And he's not going to also have, I think part of it that was so cool. We've talked about this before. Lots of people have talked about this. But when Curry would see Clay light up, he would be like, this is great. I'm going to feed clay. Everybody's going to feed clay. He's going to have one of

those blackout games. Right. But you don't, I don't know if that happens if you also have Durant on the court. I love the, the clay blackout, blackout games are one of my favorite things about having league pass and all this stuff. I was, I was, as you were talking, I was looking up how many shots Harrison Barnes took a game last year. And the answer is 9.6. Yeah, I was going to say eight. So, Durant needs about, I would say, it would be foolish for him to take less than 17 a game, 17, 18 a game. Right.

So that means he's got to get nine shots from somebody. Clay's the most likely guy. I think Draymond may be a little bit likely too, but somebody's going to suffer. And maybe Curry doesn't care. Right. Maybe Curry doesn't take as many I'm pulling up from 35s. Maybe. I don't know.

It's going to be. fascinating. I can't wait to watch them. And I don't care nearly as much about the whole super team thing as anyone else. This is what we grew up with. Yeah. I love the 80s. I like to have the Celtics and the Lakers and the Sixers and then occasionally the Rockets will pop up. Those were some of the most memorable basketball games ever played. And guess what? Last year was awesome. We only had three good teams. Golden State versus Oklahoma City was amazing. The last two, the last three Golden State Cleveland games were awesome. Yeah. No, and I think they like having great teams. And I think it's cool. I mean, this is, you're right. This is what we grew up with and it is interesting.

It'll be interesting to look at this. You'll go look back and be like that was the LeBron versus Steph era, the or the Cleveland versus Golden State era, those three championships. And this is, it's been a fascinating art for LeBron's crew that he's had this many repeat opponents in the finals like this over the last six years. Well, tell you one thing. LeBron's the big winner from this whole thing. Because, like, he climbed the mountain. Yeah. He won. He defeated Drago in Russia. Yeah.

He got the crowd chaining, you know, USA and Rocky, Rocky. And it's very easy to coast after that and let down a little bit. And now it's like, oh, Durant's on the Warrior. Here's another mountain for you. Here's another motivating factor. Yeah, it's a huge. I'm sure he's in the gym right now. He's like, screw this.

I'm going back to back. They've been probably banging out of the SPs all week. That was it. That was the last time he made. That's it. Yeah. He's Friday. He's like, all right, back to the gym.

Here I go. The Sixers. Yeah. Dario showed up from Croatia at the Philadelphia. International Airport yesterday. It looks great. I watched Ario on the Croatia, Italy game, second half in the O-T, and I really liked his game.

Yeah. I liked him. The Celtics, he was in the mix that year. I think it was the year we took Marcus Smart, but I was doing the draft, and I watched a lot of Sarich. I really liked him. And then, by all accounts, he sucked in the Euroleague season or whatever, and it seemed like the bloom was off the rose.

Yeah. I don't know. I like that guy. That guy's an NBA. That guy's an NBA asset. 6-10. He's physical. He can post up. He shoots threes.

He hustles. So he put him with Simmons. He's got a little bit of like Croatian chippiness too. Totally. Yeah. Put him with Simmons. That team makes sense to me. Simmons is the point guard.

I thought us Hershey, our friend Hershey. He was watching one of the Simmons Summer League games. He was like, he was like, do you know, to have Simmons just, he's like, I got this. I'm the point. Let me play point. I got this.

And it was like, oh, I wonder what he is. Is he a point forward? What is he? It's like, now that dude runs your basketball team. Like, just throw the positions out. You give that guy the ball no matter what. It's Summer League. It's an exhibition game.

It's pickup. It's rucker. You give that guy the ball and he's the one who's going to decide who gets the ball. I really wish he finished stronger. I really wish he would shoot the ball. And I wish when he did shoot, he made it. But I kind of don't care.

It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, just like he's 19 it's also he'll be fine these are Jason kid passes he's making yeah they're so awesome like he is making no look full court bounce passes with top spin you know like everybody on that team is going to get five points

better because of him this is why I was going so nuts about him before the college season because I really did feel like he had the bird magic passing gene and then that LSU season happened and he was so misused and it looked like it just beat the life out of him but to me it makes

total sense that he would almost, I know there's a lot goes into LSU season, but there are some guys like Carmelo where you're like, okay, he's just going to be good at every level he's going to play at. Yeah, I get him. I get what he is. And I get what he does. Yeah. But Ben actually needs to play with better players because he's going to make good players great.

He's not going to make bad players that much better. I mean, like they can't catch the pass. You can see it in Summer League too. There are guys who just aren't there when he sees them. Yes. They don't know the ball is coming. There's so many, like, he does a head fake and then a behind the back pocket pass or something and guys are just like, how the fuck did you do that?

Right. And when he gets real players with around him, it's going to be incredible. I agree. Yeah. This was the case, same thing for Chris Paul. Like when you watch Chris Paul in college, he seemed like he was ahead of his teammates. And it was actually a detriment. And I don't know.

I'm in on BS. I think the thing that worried me about him was just that, yeah, I felt like he kind of quit that last month a little bit. But maybe that situation was so bad you can't even judge it. I like how because of the warriors and the, and the calves in it being such a top heavy league in that sense, that psychologically it seems like it's freed people up in team building to be a little we're just get some guys. Let's get some guys and see what happens.

We'll figure it like Milwaukee's doing that too. Yeah. It's just like, some long guys. Let's get Thon, Jabari and Janus and let Janus play point. And then we're going to draft like smart like guys like Malcolm Brogden. I like Brogden a lot. And they're just like let's get Deli. We'll be chippy. We'll just kind of see what happens. And I love it. I love it. I don't want to like worry too much of like, oh, you got a guy who's going to make quarter three. It's just like, Throw a bunch of long guys out there and see what happens. I dig it.

The problem is the Okafer, New Orleans, Noel, those guys, the trade value of those guys, are just going to drop once they're playing 15, 16 minutes a game. Yeah. And that's why I thought they had to trade Okafer during the draft, whether they got the third pick, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, whatever. Also, I think you want to go into camp slingshot in there with like, this is good, this is real now. And if you go in there with Okafer, he said that he has, he hasn't said.

anything about not appreciating the way his name has been in trade rumors, but like there have been reports that he's kind of getting annoyed about. It's like you guys talking about trading me since almost January now, what's going on, you know? Here's the big question. Was it worth it to throw away those three years after you saw the Ben Simmons no-lux? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. It would have been worth it if we had gotten towns. It would have been worth it if we had gotten some of the other, like, you know what I mean? I'm glad, but it's like, as soon as you see something special like that, I was just talking to Jeff Chow about this. It's, you haven't had.

a great player to cheer for in Philly since Iverson. Yeah. That's longer than three years, you know? So does Henke just get courtside states to Sixers games and he's just nailed as a hero? He was at a summer league game, I think, with Rod Thorne. People with Sixers, Finns. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Hinky on this chance.

So I saw this, Tate was tweeting about this. What do you think about the idea that Brian Colangelo made things really awkward for his dad in terms of his relationship with Popovich by doing that Manu thing? by offering the triple, like to triple Manu's salary. I can't believe they did that. Yeah, that's so great. But if Genoblee would have been on the Sixers, how awesome would that have been?

It would have been great. I'm amazed other teams didn't do it. Like a team that actually had cap space and had a chance to do stuff in the playoffs. Does Mainu have anything left, though? No. I don't think so. I have more summer questions for you.

I was thinking about the Bulls. House and I talked about a little bit last week. I was thinking about a little bit more. how they could just, everyone's paced in space, three, so they've got to play a certain way. Couldn't the Bulls just go the opposite way and just study 1980s basketball? Like, studied the geometry of the mid-80s Celtics teams

and how the goal was always just to get as close to the basket as possible. If only they had a coach, you like to slow things down and grind it out. Didn't they hire Hoyberg? Because he had some, like, beautiful motion offense. Just get rid of them. Okay. Kering them out. And it's almost like they need Frank Vogel.

They need to like make a coach trade. Frank Vogel. Hire some guy named Tim Tobito to come in. It's just like Tibbs with a mustache. You know that Tibbs is like, I don't have enough work. I want to coach two teams. He would do it. I know.

I would love to see them just be like, screw it. We're not going to like go through the charade of pretending we're going to shoot three. He's like we're going to pound you. We're going to trade Gibson and Meretic and whatever else to get Brooke Lopez. We're putting the Lopez brothers together with Butler, Rondo, and Wade, and we are just going to play as close to the rim as we can. Yeah, sixth man, McBuckets. You'd be fun. I want to see one team do it.

Yeah. Just be like, we're going to be around the rim. It's also going to be great watching those guys, like, pass the ball to each other around the perimeter, inch in towards like 16 feet and then get back iron on it. Yeah. I guess the reason you can't do it is in the 80s, you can't double team and do like weird zones and stuff. But this is the thing. I want to see, I would love to have a little bit more variance of, I guess. identities. I don't want it all to be slick, dribble handoff, ball moves five times, everything

is a three or a foul shot. Like, come on. That's why I kind of like what the Paces are doing. Alan Crabs making $15 million a year because he made one three a game last year. Can the Suthics make the finals with the team they have right now? Sure. Yes. Yeah. I think that the calves, I mean, the calves are in a chemistry experiment that any element of it could change what's good, like what makes it work. First of all, I mean, I think they're riding a high. The motivation will be there, especially with the Warriors now. And it really does become the best of three. Yeah.

But you never know what's going to happen with the guys. Like when you lose a deli, when you lose Moskhov. I know they didn't really play Moskav that much this year. They didn't replace. They didn't really replace them. They got Deliivie, which is a good pickup. I think this is the year LeBron goes on full cruise control and turns the offense over to Kyrie for the season.

He still hasn't signed his deal, right? No, he's waiting. Picks his spots, does his thing. Kyrie. He's going to do that. Cairo, this is LeBron voice. I want you to lead the league in scoring this year. You can do it.

You can get 30 points a game this year. We're going to get you the scoring title. I can totally see him doing that. What is Love gets? We're going to ride you. What does Kevin get? He's fine. I love, wasn't it weird those guys go to the ESPs

and only LeBron speaks? And Kyrie and Love are next to him. and they don't get to even be like, hey, thanks to Tailu. Like, nothing, they're just there. It's like Destiny's Child. Like, Beyonce's the only one who gets to speak. Just want to say thanks to Larry Drew, keeping our heads down the whole year. Yeah, I don't know.

It's so weird. Only three of them go up. Kevin loves just a mute. Like, he's not allowed to speak at a word shows, though. I think those guys have been having a pretty good summer, though. Like, it does seem like they're still really viving with each other. Yeah. There's a mystery fly that's going after us.

I wanted to ask you something. Okay, go ahead. All right. So we've come out of like, it's now July 15th, Summer League ends this weekend. Yeah. This is the longest it felt like an NBA season has gone. Because it made no mistake. It's felt like every day has felt like another day of the season.

It's because the finals was so long. Draft. Free agency has been like, there was a four-day run where like huge players were changing. And now the Summer League is over. Do you want a break or do you want, is there something we could come up with? to make it so that July 15th to training camp is also interesting. Like, what could the NBA do to truly be a 12-month-a-year league? I guess every league, even the NFL takes a quiet month or two.

Mike's Aaron and the Celtics had this idea, so I'm going to credit him. What if you flip free agency in the draft? I love it. So the finals ends, the latest it could end is game seven, like the 21st. Free agency starts the Friday before July 4th weekend. Okay. So basically that last week of July, I'm sorry, the last week of June, post-finals. Because everyone, there's only two teams left.

Everyone else is ready for free agency. Right. Everyone goes after whoever, goes to the next week, July 4th. That's like a Monday or two, the Monday of July 4th weekend. and then like July 6th you could start July that Thursday July whatever July whatever it is yeah Thursday after July 4th becomes the draft only it's a two-night extravaganza first night lottery one through 14 10 minutes between picks we take our time okay really blow it out then Friday night through we go rest of the first round

second round, third round. That's like for the nerds. That's for us. Like we get to see whatever. We get the whole extra day. We get to digest what happened. And then Summer League starts a week later. That takes us all the way through July now.

Yeah. That stretches it out. I think also, why not add a third round to the draft where you're drafting for the D-League teams? Yeah. You telling me people wouldn't watch that? How about this? The league makes so much money at this point.

Why not reallocate some of the money that's going to salaries and push that into the D-Leaks. And making like a higher league. Yeah. Yeah. So make it so that guys can come right out of high school and be in the D-League and they'd actually make $200,000 a year, you know?

Yeah. There's a lot of stuff they can do. I think the CBI, there's definitely going to be a lockout. Daniel, what you could start D-League season early. Oh, Joe likes that. Joe Flint says out. No, you start the D-League season earlier. Like, you started in August sometime.

So that if people were really psychotic and wanted to say, let's say Ben Simmons would play one game a week for the D-League team, just for like, to get his leg. or something like that. Or you would be able to see the late third second round guy that got picked who's showing some signs or whatever.

Check in on James Young's upper body strength. And then you get to watch those guys in August if you wanted to and then the season starts. Maybe Summer League becomes the D-League. Oh, yeah. And it just goes for 10 weeks in Vegas.

It just never stops. Just keeps going. But I think the most interesting case for FreeHCB before the draft is, you know, like this is what Zarin was saying. Like, if we knew who we were getting in free agency, it would determine who we drafted. Are you two years away or are you on the, yeah, it determines whether or not you're,

you're two or three years away. And if the Thunder knew that they were going to lose Duran, right, they lost Duran. Maybe they'd make a much more aggressive move to get to the top of the draft with Westbrook or whoever. Right. Like maybe they trade Westbrook to the Lakers and take Ingram. And they're like, bang, now we have a Lidipo, Ingram and Adams. That's a bottom playoff team.

We could see where we're going. Like in the NFL, free agencies before the draft. And they try to get who they can get, and then they draft. And somehow we flipped it in the NBA, and it doesn't totally make sense. I think that it's been, but the thing that's interesting is when you think about all the one year, one year and an option deal is being signed now. And even the long deals, quote unquote, are like three or four years. Yeah. I do think that it's so entertaining.

and it's so beneficial probably to agents to have guys changing teams. I mean, this is what's like in soccer. I mean, agents aren't there to do anything but move you from team to team. I think that you'll see a much higher turnover going forward in the NBA. Guys like Anthony Davis signing these deals that are going to keep them on the Pelicans for most of a decade. Probably, I don't know, is that going to keep happening into the future? I guess we'll have to see what happens at the CBA. Davis made a mistake.

Yeah. He should have waited a year and seen. and seen what was going on. They're the team, and he is the guy who has completely been left out of all of this. Like, we used to, you would normally try to pair somebody with him. Yeah. And they've just been completely shut out. If you could steal one thing from soccer for the NBA, Premier League or La League or whatever, what would you steal?

We've talked about this before. I would want to have like a cup, a knockout tournament. That goes parallel to the season. Oh, like a Champions League. Yeah, no, I mean like a, a, a cup. like basically a knockout tournament that had some sort of incentive, whether it was lottery balls or cap space or whatever, and also like a bonus structure for the players to play for it.

So like a couple million bucks or whatever. And then you'd have that going. And teams could choose whether to play their benches or their starters and advance. You know what I mean? Because that's what happens in these cups. It's like Manchester United will play their kids until the quarterfinals. And then they'll bring in the real guys. And you could see teams.

It would just be great for the Celtics. Like Terry Rozier would carry us for the first couple rounds and then we'd bring in the horses. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And so then it wouldn't even have to be that elaborate. I don't know whether you do in February that would work. Maybe you shorten the season and add this.

It would also be cool to have like the commissioner's cup and like somebody would have something to win other than. Because right now there's just. The David Stern Cup? Yeah. The David Stern Cup. It just has a permanently frozen envelope. Yeah. Permanently frozen envelope.

Trapped in a cup. two more questions what the hell is Orlando doing we've been asking this for months I've never talked about it do you have an answer I don't I think it's like insane I don't know what they're doing yeah I never it's crazy to see them not only trade away guys like Ola Depot but clearly put the guys that

they still do have like Aaron Gordon and Alfred Payton yeah in weirder positions because now they have like all these kind of like a little bit older or more established players around them right like I don't feel like they're gonna be grow the way like Gordon and Abacca shouldn't be on the same team to me. I'm still bummed out that Toronto didn't trade for Abacca. Once I found out about that trade.

Oh, yeah. What was the deal? Patterson, number nine, and Corey Joseph for Abaca. I think they should have done it. Do you like that trade for Oklahoma more than the one they got? I like Oladipo. I like the one Oklahoma got was awesome. But I think that Toronto was on the table first.

All right, last question. Oh, two more. It feels like Utah is going to be the everyone's smoke up their ass team. And I think it's going to backfire terribly. I don't. I still don't get that Utah, Tim. I think it's really cool. I love ISO Joe on the jazz, too.

Oh, stop it. Iso Joe. Two minutes left, who's getting the ball? Because I've seen Gordon Hayward's work in these situations and I've never enjoyed it that much. I like Gordon Hayward. I mean, I think you keep ISO Joe on ice and just bring him in for the last five minutes.

The closer, yeah, he's Kira Sedgwick. Okay. You just say, I actually have a Kira Cedric mask that he tears off and comes in in the last five minutes. I so Joe. I don't see it. I don't see what everybody is so excited about. I think Rodney Hood is my answer, is the guy who needs to play into that role.

So every game when they're playing somebody good, it's like, oh, you have Damien Lillard. Well, we have Rodney Hood. It's like, you're losing that. I see them losing a lot of close games. That's like also not 100% sold on Quinn Snyder. I'm going to throw that out there. Any guy who's coached in Russia, I love. Just, you wonder what happened over there.

That's why you haven't given up on Blatt? Yeah, that's right. Last thing. This is really important. Nix fans. I don't know if that's a There's some signs of optimism with Nick's fans I know I don't know whether it's

What was Phil's tweet yesterday? Phil Jackson's tweet? Let's look at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, they're talking themselves to Derek a little bit. Derrick or Carmelo, second year of Zinger. Second year is usually when a guy really breaks out.

Also, it's Noah is the Nick. Like he should have been a Nick for the last 10 years. Right, if he has anything left. Yeah. He'll happen in New York. Classic, like, Knicks player. I think the Knicks fans are kind of looking at the East a little bit and going, oh. Here's what Phil Jackson tweeted yesterday.

Here's what, colon, we have brought change to the Knicks team. The real dimension of change is how much the players want to unite in this change, except want to hear what. It's not about bonding and being friends. It's about joining in the effort of playing hard with every effort. Ah. Yeah. I don't know what any of that means.

It's quite a fortune cookie. It's just gibberish. Right. I think it's a shot at the Warriors. Because it's like, don't, we don't want to care about their friends. Anyway, I'm excited to watch him. Don't you think he'll make the playoffs? Yeah. Yeah.

So the case Nick's fans I've heard is Rose was going to have a big comeback here last year, but he got hit in the eye and that screwed him up. And, you know, he lost his aggressiveness all this. This guy keeps having bad luck. We're finally going to get him in a year when he doesn't have bad luck. Porzengis, year two. That's when guys always take off. Carmelo last grade

Carmelo in shape year he's he's you know had a really good summer from a personal standpoint I love that he kind of stepped up and became one of the voices that I think we've always wanted athletes to kind of be to take that responsibility seriously he's been the one out of anyone that has

thrown himself into it the most maybe that'll be good for him and then I don't know they have it's not a bad team Hornacek did a good job in Phoenix that first year I thought he was a really good coach and they really screwed them with the team they put together those second and third years. I feel like the highs will be high and the lows will be low with the Knicks. The crowd will get into it.

I feel like they've got like a nine game win streak, a 10 game win streak in them where everybody's just like, what if? And then there's just like a micro fracture somewhere. The flip side, yeah, the flip side is this is the same type of team they put together. You know, I did my second episode. We did a whole thing about how the Knicks always get guys four years too late. This is like a classic Knicks thing about it this year is. that they haven't also signed Derek Rose to, like, a six-year debilitating contract. If this doesn't work, they can soft reset the following year.

I like Courtney Lee. Yeah. Like that one? I think Brandon Jennings is going to be really good for them. Oh, that's a great. I love it. He's already playing in playgrounds, too. It's going to be great.

I'm sure that's not what the Knicks want to see is Brandon Jennings showing up with the Rucker, but yeah. This is the happiest podcast we've ever done for NBA. You're feeling good about the Sixers? I'm happy about the Seltz. Yeah, I'm actually, I'm really excited. I think part of it is because this league has now sustained me into August. I don't have to think about anything else but basketball.

And it's probably a good thing for America that the Celtics didn't get Ben Simmons because I don't know if I'd be able to function. No, you'd be pretty insufferable. I'd be out of my mind. I'd literally be out of my mind. What would I be doing? I don't know. Those no-lick passes, I'd be.

How many times would he have been on any given Wednesday? Would he be like your psychic? We would have called it any given Ben Simmons. All right, we're going to go on the ringer NBA show. Check out the BS podcast I had my dad on. Wesley Morris. It was a good one. Thanks to everybody at the ringer.com. Thanks to our friends at C-Geek, the presenting sponsor of the BS podcast.

Check out the ringer, all of our podcast, keeping it 1600, the watch, Ringer NFL show. What else do we have? I'm blanking. Jam session? Jam session. That's on Channel 33. Yeah. Oh, the MLB show?

Yeah. Oh, and then we have Shack House. Joe House and Jeff Shackleford. In my podcast, we have some good stuff. Mike Tarrico's favorite podcast. Mike Torrico's favorite podcast. Shack House. Presented by Callow.

And we have Ringer merchandise if you're interested. So check that on the ringer.com. Chris Ryan, thank you so much. What did you write about today? I wrote about the Bucks being the new Thunder, like the next version of the Thunder. I like it. All right. Thanks, buddy.