The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 25: Russell Westbrook's Future and the 'Miami Vice' 10-Year Anniversary With Bill Simmons

Episode Date: July 27, 2016

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons and Ringer executive editor Chris Ryan drop a special double-feature edition of the 'Ringer NBA Show' to discuss Russell Westbrook's options in Oklahoma City, potential trade suitors, and the best basketball fit moving forward. Then Bill and Chris pay homage to Michael Mann's 'Miami Vice' by reviewing the film's impact 10 years after its release. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This special edition of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Any Given Wednesday, my new HBO show. We have our fifth episode coming this week, Wednesday, 10 p.m. It has Michael Rapaport, Danny McBride, Christina Hendricks, and Michael K. Williams. And it replays on HBO 2 and HBO all week. You can also check it out on HBO On Demand. HBO Now and HBO Go. And shout out to our friends at SeaGeek, the presenting sponsor. of the BS podcast.

The only fan-friendly app for buying and selling tickets for sports and music with just two taps on your phone. You can instantly buy C-KeeKeeK tickets to an event, have them deliver to your phone, and enter the event. Drop your old ticket app. Use one that's built for 2016. Do everything on your phone. Download the free C-Kkeek app or go to C-Geek.com.

And don't forget, the ringer.com. All of our podcasts that we have, the site itself has been fantastic. Great writing. And we have merchandise. If you go to the ringer.com, check out the merch. link and you can get hoodies, t-shirts. We do not have hats yet, but we have everything else. Anyway, here is the special

Any Given Wednesday podcast that we taped on Facebook live. We did it live. We had some technical difficulties, so you'll notice I make a joke at one point about how we went from three cameras to one. But here it is. Me and Chris Ryan from the Ring are talking about Russell Westbrook's future as well as the 10th anniversary of one of our favorite movies. Here we go.

My name is Bill. That's Chris Ryan over there. We're trying an experiment, not just with Facebook Live, but with Eric, who works for any given Wednesday. And he's using, like, this tricaster on this tiny iPad. I don't know how this is going to work. We have two phones. We have tripods that look like they're going to keel over at any time. This is the Facebook version of the Joe Dumas picture where he has the two phones up to his head.

Yeah. With probably just as much success. Yes. It's our social media version of it. But I have a new TV show coming today at Any Given Wednesday, our fifth episode. It has Danny McBride. It has Christina Hendricks and Michael K. Williams. And I settle a long-standing beef with my frenemy, Michael Rappaport. So that's at 10 o'clock tonight.

I think we're going exactly head-to-head against President Obama. So maybe you're not going to watch this one right away. Maybe it'll be on DVR or it'll be on HBO 2 in about an hour. or it'll be on demand or HBO now. Eventually you'll see it. I trust you'll find the show. Didn't you go ahead with somebody else? I think we did the ESPs two weeks ago.

We've had some. That's it that we didn't create a show that you had to watch in the moment necessarily, although we love when you watch it in the moment. But eventually at some point you'll watch and I trust you. I want to talk some MBA stuff. We're going to start, I think we're going to do every Wednesday when we have a show, basically a Facebook Live podcast that will also eventually run on the ringer. Video podcast.

Sure. Stuff that we could. couldn't fit into the show. Topics that I cared about that just didn't make sense for whatever the TV show is for whatever reason. This week, I want to talk about Russell Westbrook's future. And Chris Ryan can vouch. Yeah.

I was in your office on Monday. Yes. And I was telling you, if I have time this week, I'm going to write about Westbrook. This is a huge story. And nobody's written about it yet. And then within like two hours, five people wrote about it. And it got beaten to death. I think it's the most fascinating NBA, what's going to happen with somebody who,

has leverage who can affect it either right away or in a year or whatever since Kevin Garnett which some people have made that parallel actually I've read that online too I think Kevin O'Connor did do that can I just yeah go ahead really quickly I feel like in your podcast and video universe like house is your friend Jacko is your friend am I your Celtics enabler like do you know you don't have me sit here so that you can talk to me about the way in which Danny Aange could bring you back to the promise land no you're you're the world's biggest Russell Westbrook expert slash body language expert slash Russell Westbrook stylist expert slash fan slash

I feel like you have the finger of the Russ Pulse as well as anyone other than maybe Juliet. The Russ Pulse is an earthquake but I try to keep on top of it. The Russ Pulse is like it's 110 over 70 sometimes. It's 200 over 160 sometimes. We don't know how to put our finger on the Russ Pals. It's hard to tell. Yeah. So he's in a really interesting spot. So interesting that I wrote down a bunch of different numbers. I actually prepared for this. You beautiful-minded it. Yeah, I did. I did a little bit. All right, so here's the key thing that happened. James Hardin with the Houston Rockets. He had two years left on his deal. 16.8 million in 2017, which is this upcoming season. 17.8 million in the following year.

So he had $34.6 million guaranteed. They renegotiated that. They gave him $118 million for this year and the next three. The next two years, instead of making $34.6 million, I don't know why I'm staring at the camera. I'm just going to stare at you. Good. I love it. We're learning as we go along. So he is now guaranteed $57 million over the next two years.

They tore up his contract and they gave him $22.4 extra million for the next two. On top of that, he got another $61 million for the next two. So he had $34.6 million guaranteed. Now he has 118 million guaranteed, but he's sacrificed two free agency years. And they feel like he's just going to grow into that role as defensive stopper. It's the money is the incentive. It's a defense play. No, I do think part of it, though, and I think this was smart by Mori,

Darry, the Houston gym. And I don't know, maybe he thought of this, maybe he didn't. But we knew this would have some kinks. We had to go to one camera. I knew the tricaster was too good to be true. Is this working now? Sorry about that. We tried three.

Our Wi-Fi signal isn't great. Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Joe. We were talking about James Hardin and Russell Westbrook, and I was saying that I thought, that's Chris Ryan, by the way, he's back. We're trying to figure out what's going to have

with Russell Westbrook's future. And I was pointing to the James Harden contract, which he was guaranteed $34.6 million over the next two years. They blew up that contract. they gave him 57 million for the next two years. So you got almost a $23 million raise. And then he got an extra $61 million for the next two total. And then I made a joke about his defense.

And then you made a joke about his defense. That's gone forever because of the tricaster. So I think one of the reasons they might have done that, and I don't know for sure, is, you know, everybody's making so much money. I think it drives some of these guys crazy. So you feel like it's almost... If you're James Harden, you're like, Wow, that guy's making that.

Right. KD's going to make 27 million a year, making 17. This is what I imagine John Wall thinks every day he wakes up. With Bradley Beal. Yeah. Or with Reggie Jackson or whoever, yeah. Yeah. Because I think Ryan Anderson was making as much as James Hardin.

And James Hardin goes into practice. And this has happened a couple times in NBA history. We're like Seattle signed Jim McElvane, I think, in 97, 96-97 season. He was making more than Sean Kemp. And Sean Kemp didn't, wasn't chill about that. Sean Kemp did not like it. And then proceeded it ruined their team chemistry.

They had to trade Sean Kemp. I'm not saying that wouldn't happen to Hardin, but nice to take care of him. Plus you lock them up for the extra two years. So with Westbrook, Westbrook makes $17.8 million this year, then he's a free agent. They could blow that up and do the same thing that Houston did for James Hardin. And he would make $26.5 million. Okay. So he would get almost a $9 million raise just for this season.

and then he could make basically 28.5, 30.5, 32.5. So another 90 plus million, he'd be locked down. But he'd have to sign with OKC. Right. How many years do you think he'd sign for? That's door A. That could rip it up, it's four. Okay.

Door B, he plays out 2017, 17.8 million. Then he signs a five-year deal with them that starts at 30.2 million and ends at 39.3 million and would be worth almost $175 million. So he knows he has that too, but he'd have to play it out. What if he gets hurt? Right. Door C, he leaves. He does $17.8 million this year, and then he leaves.

He goes to Boston wherever. And then after that, wherever. Then he does, basically, he signs what Durant did starting a $30 million a year, four-year deal. Right. Now, there's a hidden door D. Did you know there was a door D? I didn't. I was like looking at the three doors.

D. Okay. So he could sign a two-year extension with a third-year player option. Okay. He could get 26.5 and 28.5. So that would be 55 million combined instead of just a 17.8 for one. And then become a free agent again. If he does that, when he becomes a free agent, he's a 10-year vet.

He gets 35% in the salary cap instead of 30. So the biggest financial upside is for him to do a two-year extension. After the end of this season? Right now. Right now. Okay. And he gets a $9 million raise for this year, big raise for the following year, and then he can get out and he can sign for like $250 million for five years after that or some crazy number.

I can't believe the numbers are getting thrown around now. So what would you do? If I was Russell or if I was Presti? If you're Russell, no, if you're Presti, you're like, name, yeah, whatever you want to do, here's a check. Yeah. If I'm Russell Westbrook, I sign the, so the, the, do you. Door A, what was the one where he can sign the extension?

Door A is the two-year extension. Door-D. Door D is the two-year extension. I think I like Door D-D. I like Door D too. It's just enough to experiment with, okay, is Curry going to stay in Golden State? Is everything going to have, like, is this going to be the way the NBA looks for the next five years or are other things going to happen?

I have some flexibility with where I am. But Oklahoma is not a bad place to be in terms of the talent around you. You get to be competitive. and we were talking about this the other day. The money has to be pretty good on him winning MVP next year. Can we agree that Oklahoma City might not be the ideal place to live if you're a super famous black person from California? That's not something that's going to be a new...

Would that be in your top 50 cities to live if you're Russell Westbrook? No, but I don't think that he's going to, that's not going to be dawning on him now. He either knows that or doesn't know that after all these years. But that's why this is so important because if he decides I don't like any of the of these doors except for the door that has me leaving, they have to trade them right now. Right. And there's only a few places that he could actually be traded where

he would then sign the extension. And the only reason you would do the trade is if you could get him to sign the extension. Well, and you would also, you would force a trade if you felt like that team gives me a chance to win the title. Yeah. But the problem for him is that, with the exception of my beloved Boston Celtics,

every team would have to give up too much in the Westbrook trade to then contend. Right. Right. That is the Lakers role there. Right. So the Lakers would have to give up, I have DeAngel and at least two firsts. Maybe one. That's insane. That's too much. I mean, if you're Russell, we go to the Lakers and you're like, great,

I guess we can wait to see if we can get in free agency, but now I'm on Luke Walton's team with a bunch of D-League guys. Right. And I'm hoping a year from now that'll be better, but he could just do that a year from now anyway. This is the Carmelo thing again. Right. Yeah. He could go to Minnesota. For what? Chris Dunn, Wiggins,

and a pick? Well, you got it. So, they're never going to put Wiggins in this though. Who? The Timberwolves. I don't think they put Wiggins. You wouldn't trade Chris Dunn and Wiggins for Westbrook if you knew Westbrook was resigning? See, I don't think he'd resigned there. Why would I go from Oklahoma City to Minnesota if I'm Russell Westbrook?

So don't you think that Russell is kind of unique as an asset because so much of this is going to be in the eye of the beholder? Don't you think in some ways if you're in Minnesota and you have the team you have, you kind of want to see what you've got for two years, or isn't someone like Jimmy Butler? That's what they should do. Yeah. Yeah. There's one other team that could make a trade. Miami. They could trade Dragage, Winslow, Josh Richardson, and first rounders in like 2038 and 2040, because I don't think they have any left until that. And so it's just Westbrook and Whiteside? Yeah. And Dion Waders. And Chris Bosch. And Deon Waders. And Waders Island. Well, do we have clarity on Bosch? What's going on? I don't know. Okay. I don't think

Anything's changed for four months. I think the team's being really careful about whether he should come back or not. Okay. And rightfully so. So really, the only trade where he could contend next year is the Celtics. And you could make any incarnation that trade, but they could replace him with Thomas. They could replace him with Marcus Smart if they wanted him. They could give them broken picks.

They could do whatever. And it would basically be an intact contender for him to go to. So your bill, but you're also dating age in this case. I don't do it. How much of the cover do you? I don't overpay for him. You don't. No.

You know why? Because I think Golden State's probably going to win the title this year or next year anyway. So this is the thing about why he should or shouldn't leave. Right. So if you're Russell, sign the two-year deal. Because the likelihood is that all you're doing if you're going to Boston now is making them slightly weaker or whatever, because they'll have to trade assets for you. But you're leaving to have the right to play LeBron in the Eastern Conference finals.

Right. The likelihood is that you are not going to beat the Warriors. I think it would be nice for him to make the, I'm sure he would want to make the, the finals, but the Boston move is not super attractive. I just remembered I forgot to share this Facebook live thing on my Facebook thing. You know, part of the fun of Facebook Live, I think, is watching people do social media as they're on social media. I know a lot of people love that.

So I'm going to do that right now. Live, exclamation point. Oh, yeah. Let's take some questions. Wait, hold on. I'm not done with my OKC point. Hold those questions. I'm bad for me.

Here's Westbrook's teammates. Where? Oklahoma City right now. Okay. Tate, feel free to chime in. Victor Oladipo. Yeah. Who wants the max?

Andre Roberson. Sure. Roberson, Roberson. Do we ever solve that? Yeah. Tibtoe Robertson. Iray and Ilova, who hasn't had a memorable basketball moment in three years. Yeah.

Stephen Adams, the best center in the league. Okay. One of the best. Why are people laughing? Enis Cantas. Enter? Yeah. Cameron Payne.

Uh-huh. Anthony Morrow. Sabonis's son. Yep. And Abrinas, who people are kind of high on. Where's your 10-man rotation? Is Josh Eustis just hanging out in Tulsa? Josh is in the D-League.

But the good thing for Josh is that whatever their D-League affiliate is probably more fun to hang out in than Oklahoma City. So step up. It's at least that even. But if I'm Westbrook, am I even making the playoffs? So here's why I have guaranteed playoff teams. Golden State, San Antonio, Clippers, Portland, Utah. There's five. God, okay.

Then you have Memphis and Minnesota, who I think are playoff teams. Sure. If Memphis is healthy, sure. If Memphis is healthy. I think Minnesota's in. I'm penciling them in. This is worth 20 wins for them. That's seven, right?

I have at least six plus Memphis is six and a half. Dallas? Always have to be. Houston? Yeah. Sacramento? Never. No.

So there's either eight or nine, opinion on what we say, there's a chance they might not make the playoffs. Well, then on top of it, you have Westbrook, the pressure of just every night I have to shoot 25 to 30 times for us to win. I have to do everything. I have to do every crunch time play. I'm in charge. I'm the only adult score in this team. Night after night after night, people just have to take me out. They win. And if there was a player in the NBA who you think could not only handle that, but relish it. And love it. And love it. It would be Westbrook. That's why you're the Russ Westbrook whisperer.

It's like the same way that the value of Russell Westbrook is all in the eye of the team who is like putting forward the pieces for him. Yeah. Russell Westbrook is like in his own eyes, easily the best player in the league. Like Russell Westbrook, when he steps onto a court with Steph Curry, definitely thinks that he is better than Steph Curry. Yes. And so when he's put. Yeah. I actually think so too.

I think I'm better than Steph Curry when I play him. We've seen what this looks like when Russell is. out there with a bunch of spare parts. I think this team is way better than the last time Westbrook played without Durant. So when this happened near the end of 2015, it was 27 games. Westbrook took 25 shots a game.

I think he had five shots over 30. He averaged like a 30, 12, 12, something like that. They went 15 and 12 in those games. Yeah, but it was a better team. Pretty glorious 27 games. I mean, it was glorious for the Westbrook fans. Yeah. It was glorious for Kobe who was like off the hook

It's a ball hog. But I don't know if I'd have fun playing with him if he was doing that for six months. I think it's a lot of pressure to put on him physically and mentally. And the other hand, as you said, he's Russ. The moment Durant said, hey, I'm going to go into Golden State. He's going to be like, fuck that guy. I'm going to shove it right out. Yeah.

And then he's going to be in Russ mode. Yeah. I just don't think he has the teammates. I just think he has a better team than he did in 2000. Wasn't that 2015 team? No, he doesn't, though. Augustine and like. But they could defend is the difference.

Like they lost Abaca and Durant. I thought Durant's defense was incredible in that Golden State series. I'm not going to disagree with it. I thought he was like him and Abaka, the length being able to do this. Now it's just Adams. That's all that they have no perimeter defense other than this in Roberson, Roberson. Olatibo can play defense. I was talking about bigger guys.

Yeah, you're right. Their guard defense will be good. But like, who guards Kevin Durant on that team? Elias Silva. Paul George. Ilya Sova just gets right up under him. Who guards Jalen Brown? What happens with Jalen Brown as a heat check?

That's the question that all GMs are staying. Let him go. Yeah, just let him go. Who guards James Young. Who guards James Young? Yeah, I know. Josh used this. Yeah.

The Red Lobsters. Maine's going against Oklahoma proper. What do you think about Kevin Durant getting this Tupac-Legg tattoo? I care a little bit more about this than James Harden. extension. Yeah, if I had to rate it, I'd rate the tattoo over the extension. I'm with you. Okay.

So where... Well, you know I love Tupac. I mean, he's the theme song for the BS podcast. Yeah. One of my all-time favorites. I never at any point wanted to put his face on my entire left leg. Yeah. Can't remember I read in that conversation.

There was also just this weird thing where Durant had his compression sleeves on his leg, you know, his leggings on and showed the, accidentally, like, showed the tattoo and then was like, I don't want to, oh, I didn't, you guys. weren't supposed to see that. Yeah. It's like, well, you got it permanently put on your leg, so it was probably going to come up at some point. Yeah. At some point.

Yeah. He usually hides his tattoos. Yes. Which is what I do. Because, yeah, that was the first thing. He has, like, a huge back piece, right? Yeah. You have a lot of, you have a huge back piece?

I don't have any tats. Is it just Tom Brady on the cross? I think when you have kids, you can get a tattoo of their names, and it's okay. When you're over 40. You could get, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would get, I would have them add your kids' names.

Tom Brady's saying them on the cross on your back. I forgot. I have a tramp stamp. I totally forgot. I got one in college. Damn it. Yeah, the Tom Brady cross would be good. Yeah. I would do that. Okay. Or Tom Brady throwing a gronk. Yeah. But instead of throwing a football, he's throwing a halo.

Belichick's just got like a crown of thorns on the sideline. That's great. So you think, and I think I agree with you, I think Westbrook takes the Duran thing personally. I think he signs the two-year extension. Really is a fuck you to everybody. Yes. And he's like, oh, really? We're not contenders anymore?

Watch this. And basically this is all leading to. I want to put the biggest bet I've ever put on the MVP on Westbrook, except for the fact that I vote for the MVP and I'm not allowed to bet. If you're Presti. Yeah. Can you wait till the trade deadline? If he's like, look, I just, I just, I want to, I really like it here.

I'm not really looking to move, but I have to see how things go this season. I think he has to tell you. I want an answer from him in next six weeks. And Presti's history. with James Harden especially it's like oh you're not signed the extension traded him in like three days but he also has a bad history of not getting a ton back

for these guys I mean he got Victor Oladipo and Stephen Adams is what he has to show for one of the greatest collections of young talent the NBA's ever seen together the Ola Depot is a bonus trade I liked for Abacca sure that's like it's like a fine trade but we haven't seen like them play out like you're basically like trading a team that went

to almost the NBA finals for the core of the magic how much time am I allowed to talk about the heart of trade 30 seconds? Yeah, actually, let's put a cap on that. Can you just time it? Give me 30 seconds. 30 seconds.

30 seconds. Stop watch. Ready? That's really great. And the beard. Okay. So here's the thing about the hardened trade. I think they liked the trade.

I think when they made it, they thought it was a good trade. I don't think they thought he was a max guy. I think they thought, oh, wow, we'll replace his offense with Kevin Martin. Jeremy Lamb will replace him long term. We got this lottery pick from Toronto that's going to be great. and this is a good trade for us short-term long-term. We're going to be better, and I think he miscalculated. Oh, 23 seconds.

Well done. That was great. Where is Jeremy Lamb now? Is he still in the league? He's with Josh Houston. Michael Jordan's best friend. On the end of the bench? Yeah, it's the best.

Okay, great. All right, playoff teams right now. Golden State. Let's say nothing else happens, West Berkriece. Okay. Golden State, San Antonio, Clips, Portland, Utah. We have those five? Yes, but I think that, yes.

Guaranteed five. Minnesota? Yeah. I don't know how high Utah is going to be in there. Minnesota, yes. All right, so we have six now. Memphis, if healthy. We now have two spots left from Memphis, Dallas, Houston, and everyone else.

I really, I think it's Houston over Dallas, and I'm also, I'm kind of like excited. I'm kind of interested in the Grizzlies if they stay healthy. I don't think OKC makes the playoffs. This feels like 2000. You know what? I'm not going to say that. I think there's a really good chance they don't make the playoffs. but this to me feels like 2005-2006 Kobe.

In 06 they made it, but they barely made it and he had to have an MVP season. Right. So it's one of those two. All right, you want to take some questions? We're going to talk about heat too. The movie Heat. No, the movie Miami Vice.

Miami Vice. Can you not read the meme questions? Mean questions hurt my feelings. Thanks, thanks, Eric. Really? Yeah. Thanks, guys. Who's everybody, like 500 people?

No, you have one. 1,200 viewers right now. 1,200 viewers? It's terrible. Where are people? Where aren't we doing better? If Oladipo couldn't shoot well enough to be next to Peyton, how is he going to fare next to Restbrook?

How will the Thunder deal with Westbrook, Roberson, Olegipo, on the wings? That asks Frankie. And don't forget about Adams who can't shoot either. That's the problem is I think it'd be really easy to shut down Westbrook. I think that Billy Donovan should install a new offense. It's like the dribble. drive, but with no

passing. So it's just dribbling to the hoop. It's just one on five? Yeah, it's just like you just go straight for the hoop all the time. What if it's like a layup line? It's just the five guys are in a line and they just attack the defense one on five and then throw it back to the next guy? I like it. That could work. What else do we have?

Darren asks, is Westbrook a franchise player? Yes, yes. There's only eight players that matter in the league. He's one of the eight. Jeremy Leam, not one of the eight. Matthew asked, why did Utah stop trusting the process and go for not one, but two, two old pieces in JJ and D.R. Really little risk there, right?

How many years they give JJ? Short money. Yeah. Always good to have veterans. Also, yeah, totally. Totally great idea for them. I think it's awesome. Also, JJ probably can't do anything but closed games at this point in his life.

And that was something that they had a problem with. They were relying on Hayward for late game offense. This is a guy. Joe Josh, still get his own shot. Veterans are the ones should we repeat the question because Eric's not miced?

I mean, I'll just repeat it. The question was, why did Utah spend money on Boards, Joe Johnson? Two old guys. People forget with veterans. Veterans are the guys who are like, change your phone. She won't stop calling you. And they're like, you should

fire your business manager. I think he's stealing from you. And don't invest in your cousin's car wash. That's why you have veterans. You need veterans on a young team. I'm a veteran for Tate. You can't see Tate, but I'm Tate's veteran. If Tate's like, hey, Bill, man,

I'm thinking about investing in a car wash on sunset. I'm like, no, you're not. I'm not letting you do that. Yeah, you got to invest in the one on Alvarado that I tell you did. Yeah, Alvarado is much better. The one with the beard guy. What else do we have, Eric? So you mentioned that Utah and Minnesota are guaranteed playoff spots, right?

Yeah, Minnesota. I said Minnesota and Utah were guaranteed to playoff spot. Jeff wants to know why. I, Minnesota has towns who will be a top 10 player this year. They have depth. They have a trade to make. They're very athletic and they have a great coach. They have a top five coach.

They have a top five coach. And I do not see a scenario where he doesn't make the playoffs. I'm still Team Rubio until I die too. Yeah, and either Rubio's going to be awesome or they'll flip them. Yeah. But yeah, to me, Minnesota. Dare I call them a lock? I think I call them a lock.

I think after seeing Tibbs at Team USA on, On Sunday, I'm going to call them a lot. Tibbs looks like he was ready for it. He was like, he's got so much coaching stored up. He's like, I just want to teach. I feel like I could have walked out on the court and be like, Tibbs, how do I box out? And he would have been like, get your position right. Tucking in his jogging jacket.

The difference between going from Sam Mitchell to Tibbs is like going from a Facebook live trycaster with bad Wi-Fi to just one camera. That was a joke for Eric. Thank you. I appreciate that one. Was Roberson's breakout offensive performance in Golden State more based on him taking advantage of the matchup or is there actual growth there? And if so, how does this vote for OKC? Was Robertson's playoff breakout a fluke or not?

I think it's more like when Tate hit six threes in a row in our three-point shootout. Yeah, I thought the shooting was a fluke, but I'll tell you, I liked him and waiters how competitive they were and how unafraid they were. And that's why I would, if I was a contender, I would assign waiters. This is why it's the problem with my mind that KD. left for Golden State. I get it for all the personal and professional reasons, but they could have beat Golden State next year. They should have been in Golden State this year.

Yes. When Waiters started picking up Curry, two-thirds of the court, and doing waiter's stuff. Yeah. I remember we were having a party on Waiters Island. There was just two of us. But I just, I went crazy. We were having Waiters punch.

It was a beautiful sunset. I think he hasn't in him. I think the problem is he's so. I don't think he's a great team. I'm very excited for Waiters and Whiteside together. Waiters in South Beach? Yeah. Is this the most exciting player who's gone to South Beach since Damon Jones?

I definitely think he's going to embrace it. I love it. Yeah. What else do we have? Jorraine wants to know how big is your condo on Waiters Island. Big one. I downsized during the summer. There was a recession.

Yeah. I got worried. I got scared. I sold. It's a two bedroom. It's good. That was my Waiters Island. Storm season in Waiters Island can be rocky.

It can be tough. Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm going to live in Zach Lowe's house. Here's a great one. Will Space Jam 2 be a commercial success? Will Space GM2 be a commercial success? From what I've heard, there's no script yet.

It doesn't usually stop comedies from getting made, though. Well, they need LeBron and they need a script. So this summer's gone, and now you're going into next summer, and who knows? Sure, it'll be a commercial success, though. Would you bet on Space Jam 2 happening? or not? I bet on it not happening. Okay, one more question

from one of our ten people watching this. Thoughts on Amari retiring? Thoughts on Amari retiring? I have a trade value column, I think, from 05 or 06 where I had him like second. Yeah. There's a... I had him like right after Duncan.

Jason Concepcion and Danny Chowell both wrote pieces on the ringer about Amari. Jason wrote about his first season with the Knicks, but Danny wrote about his 05 sons that ended in the Western Conference finals against the Spurs and he just found the stuff of Popovich talking about Amari

and just basically be like, I have no answer. I can't stop him. We have nothing. Tim Duncan guarding him. They let her get his 40 points, yeah. They just gave him the 40 a night and then they figured it out and they stopped everyone else and it worked.

And he was, as Danny wrote, like the sort of invention of the modern point center. I think they would have beaten the Spurs that year if Joe Johnson hadn't gotten hurt. I really do. To me that's a, it's not an asterisk title because injuries happen every year, but Duncan was really, really beaten up by the

end of that playoffs because he had done the Olympics the year before. He'd played a whole bunch of long post seasons in a row, and he carried them that whole year, and I think he was warrant. It wasn't the same Duncan in the last two rounds. You're obviously, like, you've watched a lot of basketball, but do you ever get like a little bit sentimental when you see guys, like, when you have like a Duncan and Stadamar retiring in the same summer like this? It does feel like an era is over, era beginning kind of thing. It does. The difference is,

I think Amir Stademeyer retired for me four years ago. Yeah. I just feel like this moment was coming for a while. Is there a guy from like your childhood or from the 80s who reminds you of like that it could have been so much more kind of career? I think Weber is the previous generation's version.

I thought he, I thought Weber should have been one of the 30 best parts of all time. Interesting. And I think if, I wrote this in my book, I think. If you did his career 10 times, there's like five versions. where he's one of the best 20 players ever.

Like he's on that Malone, Barclay, Dirk, Petit. Yeah, he's up there. And he just had bad luck, came along at the wrong time. Yeah, he's also one of those guys that if he had, if he was playing now, you could just imagine him being so good.

There are some of those players who it's like, if they had like a different kind of NBA, they would have been amazing. Quick break to talk about tonight show. 10 p.m., HBO, Michael Rapport, and I settle a big beef. I would watch that one. It replays on HBO 2 at

11 o'clock. And then it replays a bunch of times. Here's the thing. Just set the DVR pass. If you're one of the 700 people watching this on Facebook Live right now, set it, set your DVR pass, and then it just pops up. It automatically records. Then you don't have to worry about, you know, when it's on, did I forget it's on? Just set the DVR pass. All right. So do you want to talk about Miami Vice for a second? Yes. The 10th anniversary of Miami Vice. It's tomorrow. It's tomorrow. Yes. You and I both pride ourselves as connoisseurs. We hold it down for this movie. Connoisseurs of the rewatchable action movie.

This movie, which I saw in the theater and left disappointed, and I'm not sure why. I think my expectations were just sky high from the series. Yeah. And Colin Farrar were replacing Sonny Crockett, replacing John Johnson, and Jamie Fox. I wasn't quite ready for Jamie Fox's Tubbs, and I just, I left, the music. Like, now it's, to me, it's like one of the best movies the last 10 years. Great rewatchable movie when you catch it on cable.

I think one of the things about this is so it's a historically troubled production, to say the least. Yeah, they had to change the ending. Yeah, guys partying a little too much, violence happening around the set where they were shooting. And it kind of reminds me of like, you know how like you'll list, there are these Rolling Stones records that might be a little uneven. But you know that like Keith Richards was taking elephant tranquilizers. he was recording it and that makes it that much cooler like to have a little bit of like texture to it and and history. I think that's kind of what happened with this movie where it's like the more you go back

and watch it and you're like, did you know that Colin Farrell doesn't know what month it is while he's shooting this? Yeah. It's kind of amazing that he was even able to do that. Like he might not have slept for two months. Yeah. And then Jamie Fox got freaked out because somebody got shot when they're on location in South America. I think also Colin was like out of his mind and Jamie Fox was like this is really insane.

So they're going to film the ending where? What country? Well, I think that they had to do a lot of the stuff in Panama that they wanted to do in other South America. I thought they filmed the ending in Miami. I think that's because Jamie Fox was like, I'm not going anywhere anymore. So they had to literally rewrite the last 20 minutes. Now everybody comes to Miami even though that doesn't make any sense. Because the ending is just like your basic shootout.

And I don't think that's what Michael Mann wanted. I think he's still bitter about it. Because he's done a couple interviews since where he's clearly not totally happy about it. And if you see the director's cut, the beginning is different. And it's a movie that was probably always going to be, it was never going to come out the way, exactly the way he wanted it. But I think that if you go back and look at it now,

there's so much stuff there that he does. Like people wound up stealing from. Oh, 100%. You know what's incredible, though? I hated the music in the moment, but now I think he captured the specific time of music. Oh, my God. Almost like how reality bites and singles

captured like a certain air of music. So if you watch the trailer, the song in the trailer is Numb by Jay-Z and Lincoln, and I sent that to Sam Donsky, one of our writers today, and he said, this is one of those cultural artifacts that when you send it to me, I go 2006. Like, I know exactly what year it is based on the song. It's just like absolutely like that. And then they had the, it was like a lot of heavy metal Lincoln Parkish type of,

but they had the In the Air to Night remake. Yep. I gotta say, I kind of liked it. I think it's a good one. I really encourage people to watch it. There is definitely a 25-minute sequence where Colin Farrell and Gong Ligo dancing in Cuba, which they probably could have trimmed a little bit. But you know what?

I'm into people's choices. Make your choices. All right, so I have a couple thoughts on that. One, anytime anyone in a movie says, let's go to Cuba, I'm in. I'm just a thousand percent in.

They should do that more often. I can't go to Cuba, so I get to live my carously through these people. It always works out. I always love when there's a speed boat going from Miami to Cuba. Also, the reason they go to Cuba is she's like, I want to have a mojito,

and they're like, all right, let's go to Cuba to get mojitos. Yeah. I mean, I've said that. Yeah. If I lived in Miami, I would always want to know at least one person who could go to Cuba. Yeah. Hey man, I know a place we could get a mojito.

Do you like Gongli in that movie? Sure. I've come around and I really like her now. Because it's like, it's such a strange choice. It's so out there that they have her doing like what she's doing in that movie, where she's the cartel accountant. Do you know that she could barely speak English and had to memorize the wording of all her lines? Like the phonetic. The phonetic thing.

And that's how she did that thing. I thought that that was incredible. There's so many interesting little sequences in that. Also, just like the insane white supremacist bikers that are like the villains in that movie are ridiculous. How would you describe, if you could describe the plot, I'm going to give you 20 seconds to describe the plot. Hold on. Can I get my clock? Again, people love watching people do social media on social media.

I found out. All right, stopwatch. Here we go. You have 20 seconds, ready to go. Crocket and Tubbs are NARCs for the Miami. police department, I think, and they wind up going undercover to infiltrate a cartel which

operates in three different South American countries, but I think out of Columbia, if I remember correctly. Seven seconds. Gonelly is an accountant, and Sunny Crocket falls in love with her, and they run away together. Oh. But I can't remember if they run away together at the Jamie Fox plot. And I left out Jamie Fox's

whole entire plot. I like movies where somebody's in a relationship, and then there's some sort of hot sex object male that comes into their life and the other guy knows it and she goes down the road anyway and the other guy doesn't do anything about it but you know he's going to maybe wreak havoc at some point there's a great plot the other thing about miami vice is a lot of great that guy

performances including incredible list of that guy just in the rue with a miami marlins hat oh yeah just old school chilling yeah what's the name of the of the black guy who is the police sergeant who was also uh herbert mohammed and ali A ton of stuff. He's a good that guy. He's a ton of Michael Mann movies. He also plays the jazz guy in collateral. Who's that guy who's the guy who works for a Gongley's boyfriend?

He's one of those guys. Oh, yeah. There's a bunch of those guys. Like the Jamie Fox's girlfriend was that girl? That was Naomi Harris, wasn't it? Is she Naomi Harris or is she that girl from Miami Vice? I don't know. The other thing I loved with Miami Vice.

Barry Henley was Castillo, John Ortiz. Barry Henley, that's the guy from Miami Vice. Miami Vice. John Hawks. John Hawks is in that, right. He dies in the beginning. So, we think that this movie is now a success. Yeah, sure it is.

It's absolutely a success, and it's a great rewatch. So if you see it on any cable network, you can just start it. It's not going to make any more or less sense when you start it in the middle. No. That's the best part about rewatchable movies. And also, the other thing that happened in Miami Vice, and I've always argued with you for years and years, that it was the best Blu-ray I owned. Oh, yeah.

And now it's like, I don't even, did people even, what are Blu-Rays? That was a good, good try, guys. Blue-Race. Yeah, good try. Way to take our money. You know what I'm doing? I'm just going to stream Miami Vice.

I think fantasy, like, there are some people who are like, they're hanging on to the Blu-Rays. They're like, blue-rays, you never know. Those are the same people who are holding on a laser disc 15 years ago. But if the cloud ever goes down, they're going to be the only people with movies. Well, they had the deleted scenes, which were the big Blu-ray thing. And the director's commentary were good. The director's commentary is fun.

Yeah. But on the Blu-ray, the way he filmed that movie with the wide, so the TV's caught up to the movie. And now if you have the right TV, if you're watching the Blu-ray, it's beautiful. That shot when they're going to the guy's compound the first time and Maguai is playing in the background and it's going over the waterfalls. Yeah. There's like no reason for anything. You know that this is my favorite thing too, is that in any movie where you're like, oh, I bet this costs like $3 million just to get this one stupid shot. But he was like, I have to have the shot of the waterfall.

It shows his majesty and his power. And they were like, but the waterfall, like, technically that helicopter costs $2 million a day to raise. He's like, I need it for three days. We need the waterfall. He's like, Colin, don't you agree, Colin Farah? I was like, yeah, whatever, man. I'm good, man, I just woke up. He had a nag and cold.

Yeah. I love also when people try to remake something and make it completely different than the original one. Yeah. But then realize about halfway through they can't escape the original one and they kind of give up. So they just start tossing in, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm surprised they didn't start singing Smuggler's Blues at some point. Can I throw one proof of life thing at you?

Yeah, but we should save this for our kidnapping pod. That's fine. We're going to do a kidnapping pod with Man on Fire, Ransom, and Proof of Life. Okay. It's just really bothering me. I've been watching a lot lately. I love Proof of Life. It's the one with Russell Crow, Meg Ryan, and David Morris.

Okay. Meg Ryan's married to David Morris. David Morris gets kidnapped in South America. He's gone. He's gone. These kidnappers want ransom. Russell Crowe comes in. He's a hostage negotiator with David Crusoe.

They go to find that they do this whole SWAT team thing planning the whole thing. They got to find out where he is. During the course of this, Russell Crow and Meg Ryan... They start a relationship. We don't totally know that, though. They start a relationship in real life. There's sparks. There's sparks in the movie, but they cut out the scene where they actually have sex.

Yeah. But then right as he's going to save the husband, they kiss. Yeah. And then it's like, well, now what's going to happen? So he goes, he saves the husband. Right. He's been living in the jungle. His feet are covered in blood.

They can't walk. He's broken feet. They're all scuffed. They're disgusting. He's been in some, like, prison for nine months. He stinks. He isn't in a shower. He's been eating bugs.

They save him. She's like, oh, my God, big hug. Take the car. We better get to the hospital. And she's like, hold on. walks out now the guy's watching he's sitting in a car she walks over to Russell Crow and he's like she's like thank you I can't thank you enough

he's like you should go she's like what what happened with us I'll never forget he's like just let's not talk about this now your husband with the bloody feet is watching it's like no she's crying like they have this real moment and it's clear something's happening and I think he can hear the Van Morrison song that's playing even though it's a movie that's happening in the moment. So go, she cries.

I think they hug or they shake hands. And then she walks back to the car. And this guy's just sitting there like, what the fuck? What the fuck was that? Like, how do you not get mad at her for that? But he doesn't get mad. You've been in the jungle for nine months.

He doesn't get mad. He doesn't get mad. But I'm saying I would be so mad. So you're really. I'd be like, really? Look at my feet. Look at my feet. You throw that guy in my face?

I got this Tom Brady tattoo for you. Yeah. I was just in a jungle. I'd be so mad. That'd be the maddest. You wouldn't be like, I get it. It's Russell Crow? No.

It's peak Russell Crow? I'm in a jungle. I'm eating bugs. Okay. All right. That's it. Thanks for listening to the Ringers NBA show. Thanks for hopefully tuning into any given Wednesday on HBO 10 p.m.

Every Wednesday night. Replays on HBO 2 at 11 p.m. on Wednesday night. And you can also catch a whole bunch of other replays during the week. And you can check it out on HBO on Demand, HBO Now or HBO Go. Christina Hendricks, Michael Rappaport, Michael K. Williams, and Danny McBride, all on the fifth episode all week. Check it out. And don't forget to check out the ringer.com and all our podcasts on the ringer podcast network. And if you want to follow us on Facebook so you can catch the next Facebook live, it's Facebook.com slash any given W-E-D-S. That's easy enough. We're

going to do something every week, I think, Wednesday afternoons, East Coast time. So stay tuned for that follow us follow us on twitter and uh follow me because i'm it's uh at bill simmons on twitter just in case you want know what's going on thanks enjoy the rest of the week