The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 30: Ben Simmons's Injury and Bold Preseason Predictions With Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor

Episode Date: October 4, 2016

The Ringer's Chris Vernon makes his hosting debut with help from Kevin O'Connor to discuss Ben Simmons's injury (8:25) and the "buzzard's luck" of the Sixers. Then, the duo play a game of 'Three Things We Feel Alone in Feeling' (15:35) and make bold declarations about the upcoming NBA season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. I am the new host of the Ringer NBA show. A quick little synopsis for the last 15 years. I've been covering the Memphis Grizzlies, and I have seen virtually everything you can see in the NBA of the last 15 years. Two owners, one that was young, one that was old, a ton of front office guys from Billy Knight to Jerry West to Dick Versace,

Chris Wallace. I have covered absolutely horrid. some of the worst teams in NBA history. One of my first forays into covering the NBA was going into a locker room. Jason Williams, the former Grizzlies Point Guard, former Sacramento Kings, Miami Heat, etc., etc. He never talked after games. And finally, through the first NBA season I ever covered, walked into the locker room and the media relations girl at the time, her name was Stacey Mitch.

She said, Jason is going to talk tonight. because he always ducked out into the training room and he was never around and it was like the big moment Jason Williams was going to speak and so the collected media all huddled around Jason Williams and it was time for Jason to speak and he walked out and he said he looked into the cameras and he talked to the microphones and he said we suck we suck we're the worst team in the league print that and I was like all right this is how this is going to be covering the NBA Now, as time went on, covered some great teams, including a grizzly team that went to the Western Conference finals, and a lot of different playoff series, both home and on the road. Covered every different kind of coach from Sydney Lowe to Hubey Brown to Mike Ivaroni and Mike Fratello and Lionel Hollins and Dave Yeager. And now to young up-and-comer David Fisdale. So anyways, I've either watched games or I've been at games most nights for the better part of the last 15 years. You downloaded the NBA podcast, so of course you care a lot. about the league.

You know, we'll talk X's and O's. We'll talk analytics. We'll talk, you know, the salary cap minutia. But honestly, there's a lot of hardcore podcasts that are out there for that. Hopefully, my hope is this. We're going to be able to talk to players, executives, etc. Throughout the season, also, ringer contributors about the NBA at large. And I just hope you laugh a little bit.

And I hope you're not bored. The only goal of this podcast is that you're never bored. If you download the podcast, you're not going to be bored. and that's the goal. And it'll evolve as time goes on. I appreciate you giving me a chance as time goes on because this thing will evolve. But subscribe. Give us a rating.

Unless it's like a super crappy one, then don't do that. And like, send us feedback in the comments for this Ringer NBA show. I do want to thank Bill Simmons for the opportunity to get to do this. I love the NBA. I'll imagine if you downloaded this. You love the NBA. So hopefully we have a lot of fun talking about it this year. We got a couple of weeks until the season.

I think it's three weeks. from today until the season begins. And one of the things we're going to do over the course of the next three weeks, you're going to be able to listen to this on Tuesdays and on Thursdays. And one of the things we're going to be doing leading up to the season is kind of overarching themes leading into this 2016-2017 NBA season. And today, the great Kevin O'Connor, NBA writer for The Ringer, is going to join me today. And we are going to have a discussion about three things that we feel alone on.

you take in all of the preseason stuff and there's like a big NBA preview going on at the ringer.com right now but no matter where you're reading stuff or you're watching NBA TV or you're watching some of the preseason games it seems as if there as the season comes closer there's a lot of group thing that goes on with opinions about what's going to happen in the league this year and sometimes you're watching it you're like well I don't feel that way and but then it feels like everybody feels that way and so And so between Kevin and myself, we are at least going to, for some of you, will make you feel not alone. Or maybe it just may turn out that we are like totally and completely alone in feeling the way we do about a couple of different subjects leading into this NBA season.

Kevin O'Connor is an NBA writer for The Ringer. And we are going to talk about the three things we feel alone in feeling when we come back. Hey, it's Bill Simmons. It's a little known fact. But the first two people ever to have a podcast were me and Alexander Graham Bell. And now only one of us is alive to still have a podcast. Mine is called the Bill Simmons podcast. It's year 10 for me.

You can subscribe to it wherever you get your podcast during the football season. Me and Cousin Sal will be breaking down the upcoming slate of games every Thursday morning. Throughout the NFL season, you get us for 17 regular season weeks. You get us for four playoff weeks. You get us for the week after the Super Bowl when we won all our bets and weren't congratulating each other. It's great. I am doing that podcast at least once a week. Subscribe to it now. However you get your podcast, thanks for listening. And now, back to your podcast. And we are now joined by Kevin O'Connor. You can read him at the ringer.com. You can also follow him on Twitter at Kevin O'Connor, NBA. He has written recently about Ben Simmons and the injury, and he is also going to join me in giving you three things that we feel alone in feeling leading up to this NBA. season. Kevin, how you doing?

So, thank you on the show, though. Thanks for coming on. All right, so we've got like three weeks to the season. We'll get into the things that we feel alone in feeling. But first, let's get to the Ben Simmons deal. Over the weekend, he got injured. He's the number one pick in the NBA draft, and this is another year. I guess this is five years in a row you wrote

in your article. In fact, let me go ahead and tell everybody they can go read Kevin's article. It is entitled the Ben Simmons injury ripple effect. But you mentioned off top, this is five years in a row that their big acquisition, whether it's Andrew Bynum, Nerlands Noel, Joel Embed, O'Kefiore only played 53 games last year. An NBA executive last night told me they have buzzards luck.

But first, this is now getting incredibly bizarre, five years in a row where we are not going to see Philadelphia's biggest acquisition. I mean, five years in a row that their big-time off-season acquisition missed at least part of their first season with the Sixers. And it's just disappointing. I mean, I know I was really looking forward to seeing how Ben Simmons operated in preseason. The game tonight between the Celtics and the Sixers, I thought it would be exciting to see Simmons really go to work at the NBA level, but it seemed to be in the cards right now for the Sixers.

Okay, so one of the things that I've read over the course of the last couple of days is that Ben Simmons gained like 30 pounds over the weekend. Some people are trying to correlate that. What say you on this idea that there's a correlation between the guy packing on all kinds of weight and then injuring his foot? So I think that's a little bit of the year. He actually was 220 at the end of the season at LSU, and maybe he did pack on 30 pounds. But his regular playing weight, if you look at what he weighed in at like the Nike Hoops Summit and whatnot, he was around 240 throughout his entire life. I mean, he's always been at that weight. So if anything, maybe he just put on a little bit of extra muscle. But I don't think that was really the cause of the injury. The Sixers said it was an acute injury, which means that it wasn't caused by something like additional weight. It just seems like it was just something. due to bad luck and nothing else. And look, that's the thing with the injuries. We talk about how some guys like Joella beat are injury prone, but all it takes is one little turned ankle for something just to change completely.

So what are we thinking about the injury? I know in your article you kind of mentioned three months. The Sixers have said they're going to be super careful about this. What do we know about a possible timeline on him, or is this just going to be totally up in the air and depends on his recovery? You know, I think they should be. cautious about it. I know there was that report yesterday that said Ben Simmons' agent

Rich Paul might not even let him play the season. I don't know. There's any truth to that or what? But look, if late January comes and doctors say he's healthy and there's really little risk of re-injury, then I think he should play. A guy who needs work on the court, I know I'm excited about him.

Everybody's excited about him, but the dude can't shoot yet and looked lost. He wasn't scoring efficiently at the rim. He needs work on the court in order to improve through his weaknesses, to work through them. And that's not going to happen with him sitting on a sideline, resting his foot in January and February and March and April, when he doesn't necessarily need those additional months of rest.

So like I said, the article is titled the Ben Simmons injury ripple effect. You talk about how it's going to affect everything else and everybody else. Another rookie that everybody wants to see badly is Dario Sarich. How does the Simmons thing affect Sarich? I think Sarich could be a guy who benefits a lot from this. Sarch, and Sarge isn't quite as athletic as Simmons. He's not as fast. He's not going to be someone who shows up on SportsCenter Top 10 or any highlight rails for that matter, but he can really, really push the pace and transition. He can grab and go rebounds. He's 6'10 like Simmons. He's a

great ball handler like Simmons, and the dude can pass off the dribble. I think Sixers fans are really going to like him. I think with Simmons on the court, well, first of all, what Brett originally planned was to use Simmons and Sarich on the court at the same time. I think those two might have started together. But without Simmons, we're going to see Sarge get more opportunity to run pick and roll, which is what he's done playing for his teams occasionally overseas. And I think that would be a good thing for Sarge, because that's when he's at his best when he has a ball in his hands as a passer.

Now, he could have played off ball with Simmons because Sarge has developed into a good spot-up shooter, but I'm just really excited to see him getting the opportunity to play in the open floor and being the guy that I think he could potentially be in that maybe an all-star level player. All right. Let's say that the guy Simmons misses half the season, or God forbid he misses the whole season. How much would the Sixers win total change in your mind, just in what you would predict? I don't think it'll change that much, Chris.

I don't think Simmons or many rookies for that matter would make that much of a difference in the wins column for many teams, especially the Sixers. I think they'll hurt them a little bit because they lack another ball handler. Now they're relying on Sergio Rodriguez and Jared Bayliss and obviously Sarge to run their offense. But I don't think it'll hurt them that much in that sense. All right. They've got Nerlitz-No-Wel. They got Jullo L'O'O'K4, of course, hoping to see Joel M. B.

come back this year. Do you think the Simmons injury either necessitates or accelerates a move being made by the Sixers with one of those big guys? tried to find out here. And I have a feeling that it might not change much. I know a lot of people are talking about the loss of Simmons. It eases the log jam at the big man position. But they're still deep. They still have Noel, O'Cafour and Bede.

And the guy we never talk about is Rashon Holt. Potential will be a rebounding, three-point shooting big man. And with Simmons now gone, I think, if anything, it just increases the need for a ball handler. If I were them for a young point card in the league, If I were them, I think that's what would kind of ease logjam at the big man slot. And now then once Simmons returns, of having to play all four of their big man on the roster situation. He's a free agent next summer, and that dude's going to get paid. And if you're the Sixers, I'm not necessarily sure that you're going to want to pay him big man depth.

All right, that's enough about the Sixers, even though we certainly had to mention him because it was a massive story over the weekend that the number one pick got hurt. All right, we've got about three weeks until the season is going to begin. And while everybody is reading season previews or they are listening to season previews, whether it's on podcast or on TV, whatever, there are times where it appears group think has gone wild. And there are times where you're sitting there as an NBA fan and thinking, am I the only one that thinks this way? So Kevin O'Connor, your task for today was to come up with three things that we feel alone in feeling. We'll just go one by one, but here are our three things we feel alone in feeling. I'll start with mine. Number one, Kevin, I do not think the thunder are going to be good.

I see the season win total come out of Las Vegas. I think they were fifth in the west behind only Golden State, San Antonio, Clippers, Portland. Everybody's doing the whole, oh, Westbrook's going to go off, Westbrook's going to average a triple double, Westbrook's going to win the MVP. I look at it and I say, all right, let's see. last year their top five scorers were Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Enos Cantor,

Sergei Baca, and Dion Waiters. So two of those guys remain, which are Westbrook and Canter, and Canter averaged like 18 minutes in the playoffs. Stephen Adams, who people do fall in love with, he averaged eight points a game last year. So I look at it and I say, all right, Ola Depot last year averaged 16 points a game.

I love Ola Depot, but he averaged 16 points a game on a rat team. Let's say he gets to, let's say, let's say Oladipo, or I'm sorry, Westbrook average is 30. Maybe it average more, who knows, hell, the guy could average 40, I don't know. But let's say he average is 30. And then Oladipo averages, he has a really good year and averages 20. So that's 50 on a given night. Well, like, you got to score over 100 most nights to win. I don't, I look at their roster, and I just, what am I missing here, Kevin?

Because I don't even know who the fourth best player on their team is. I suppose it's either Adams or Cantor once you get past Oladipo or Westbrook, but I just, I do not like their roster at all. And I look at it and I say, I don't know where these points are coming on a regular basis. I don't think you can just lose Durant and still be really good. So I think they are, I think they're going under their season win total. And I think they'll be lucky to be a 500 team. Really on to something with Westbrook potentially going off, having like a 40-point point-point game season,

and, you know, triple double, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be good, right? Right. I wrote an article in the Ringer last month that kind of found like a kind of weird stat. Only 17 players in league history finished with a usage rate of 35 or greater. And that, you know, by comparison, that type of usage rate is a Kobe Bryant season, or Russell Westbrook two years ago when Durant was hurt, when he was just going off. That's what it's like when a guy has a usage rate of 35 or greater. But the 17 players who had those seasons, their teams only finished with an average of 42 wins in those years.

Only one of those players led their teams to the finals. That's Alan Iverson's 0-1-6ers, five lost in the opening round, and six missed the playoffs entirely. So those players historically haven't led their teams to have great success. Individually, they were unbelievable to watch, and if it were to happen, it would be fun for all of us. But for the Thunder, I don't think that necessarily means that they'd have a winning team if Russell Westbrook's full Colby mode. I think what needs to happen is he needs to change and evolve his game a little bit and maybe play more within the Billy Dunnman's offense. And there is absolutely no chance, Kevin. There is no chance Russell Westbrook does that.

We're going to, like, he's going to, again, like we saw when Durant was out a couple of years ago. He went absolutely crazy. I think everybody forgets it. He went absolutely crazy. average damn near triple double they weren't any good yep yep they missed they missed the playoffs it was fun to watch him but they weren't any good so anyways i'm on the thunder and this whole life without durand i do not think the thunder are going to be nearly as good as most people think i feel alone on that all right what's your first one kev so one last down on the sixers that's what my

that's what my uh that's what my first one's on i don't think they're going to be the worst team in the NBA. I don't think they'll be the worst team. I think they'll at least be better than the Nets and the Lakers. The Nets don't have a lot going for them other than Brooke Lopez and Jeremy Lynn. In the Lakers, I like the young talent they have, but unless Luke Walton is a miracle worker, I don't see how they'll be better than the worst team in the West. Wow. So you have the Sixers. Finally, they win like eight games a year or something. So now, all of a sudden, and you're doing this even knowing, well, I guess it's appropriate. I asked you if your season win total would change regarding them, you know, without Ben Simmons, and you said it would not.

All right, let me look at this real quick. All right. So last year, Brooklyn won 21 games and the 76ers won 10. The Lakers won 17 last year. So are you thinking that the, are you thinking the, are you thinking the sixers are going to like double their win total? Are you think, like, Are we talking, do you think, do you think, all right, let's line this out. Are Brooklyn and L.A., in your opinion, winning less than 20, or is the number 25? Like, what number do you think the Sixers could feasibly get to, even if they maximize what you think they're capable of? I just don't know if the Sixers are going to be tanking this year.

I think that's really the main reason why they won 10 games. Sure, they stunk, and sure they didn't have great talent, but they were also tanking. And this year, I think, look, I don't want to say that they, have good doubt because they're going to be a bad team. But I think having Sergio Rodriguez has them two shooters, that's enough grade from McConnell. It's going to be pretty solid as a rookie.

And I'm going to put my money on rookie of the year. It would be on Embed. I think with Embed, people are afraid to kind of say how good he could potentially be because he's been gone for two years, because he has such a high risk of injury. But man, Mike, if this dude stays healthy, he could be a Carl Towns level of prospect.

And I don't think that's an exaggeration, considering how much he improved as a freshman at Kansas, how good he looks right now at the weight he's at. With his quickness, he can shoot threes, four play in the post, and protect the rim. There's just not a lot of guys that can do when a beat does. So I think the Nets and the Lakers will be worse, and the one team, ants could be worse, are the Sacramento Kings. Oh, my God.

What? Poor boogie. That's my guy. I just got done covering Dave Yeager. Oh, my goodness, if Dave Yeager goes from the Grizzlies to the Kings and wins less games than the 76ers? Oh, no. I mean, I want it to work out for the Kings and Dave Yeager. I wanted to work out.

But, man, look at their point guard situation. Darren Carlson's out for the first eight games, and then behind him they have piled. Didn't they get a Garrett Temple or something? You're not a Garrett Temple? I think they do have Garrett Temple. He might get some heavy minutes of point cards for them. All right. All right.

Let's go, hold on, real quick, before we get to... So, all right, so you're saying the kings are not going to be worse than the Sixers, but whatever. The Nets and the Lakers, all right, I'm down with that, that's possible. What is the maximum, if I told you, the maximum amount of wins the 76ers could get? Give me a number. They won 10 last year. I'm looking at numbers I'm looking at. This is from the Westgate Superbook.

They have the Sixers of 27. I'd probably take the under in that case, but I don't think 25 wins, 24, 25 wins. is out of the question for them. I really don't, especially with the way Calangelo and Brett Brown kind of are now on the same page. They're not tanking anymore. I think they want to be competitive. And I just think they have enough talent

to win at least 20 games. And that's not saying much, but it's progress, right? All right. So next one, these are the three things that we feel alone in feeling leading up to the NBA season. Number two for me is Anthony Davis is still the best young player

in the NBA. Kevin, I don't, listen, the flavor of the month has come and gone, I suppose. It has surpassed Anthony Davis. Everybody is on Carl Towns jockey strap. Everybody loves boogie cousins. Everybody loves boogie. I think that Anthony Davis might be the third most popular Kentucky big guy now. But here's what I know.

He averaged 24 and 10 last year, and it was not a great year. He averaged a steel in two blocks. We're a year removed from him being in the playoffs against the Warriors and averaging 32, 11, three blocks in that series. And that season, right, where he was like all-N-B-A, he averaged 24 and 10 with a steel and a half and three blocks per game. And he had a 30.9 P-E.R. And the only P-E-R seasons, ever better than his, two years ago,

are owned by Wilts Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, and then last year's Steph Curry season. In fact, according to player efficiency, he had the 12th best season ever, and he's still 23 years old. So I don't know. I just don't get it. It feels like he was the cool thing. It's kind of like, you know, Woody and Toy Story, and then Buzz Lightyear comes along. And so, you know, you're not the cool thing anymore.

But for my money, Anthony Davis is still the best young player in the NBA, even though Towns gets all kinds of love. What say you? No, I'm unfortunate in some ways that Davis is kind of overlooked now. I think people still acknowledge that he's a stud, but people had such high expectations last season that they were expecting. Despite the fact that he didn't have much talent on the floor around him, despite the fact that his teammates were all getting hurt. Doesn't it feel like the pelicans are starting to build something?

I think you and I both love Buddy Heald. Solomon Hill is a nice under-the-radar free agent signing. Even Terrence Jones, they signed him for, I think, the league minutum. And he's so bouncy and so athletic. He's someone who maybe figures it out with the Pelicans. I just like what they have going forward if they use the pieces the right way. And I think it could be a good thing for Anthony Davis. And Buddy's going to be even better.

He's going to be better for Davis than Eric Gordon ever was. And he's going to be better for him than, you know, even in the preseason, they got Buddy Heald running a bunch of different pick and rolls. His ball handling has evidently gotten better. I think that's a good fit with Davis, is that Buddy Healed on the perimeter. or if he is what I think he could be, obviously what you think he could be. Anyway, I just feel like it's kind of, you know, you're the cool thing until you're not the cool thing, and then people kind of forget about you.

But Anthony Davis is 23 years old, and we are a year and a half removed from him having one of the great NBA seasons ever. So it feels like kind of everybody's sleeping on him. I think the guy's going to, I think he's going to get back in that conversation again to where within the next couple years, we're talking about Anthony Davis being the best player. in the NBA. And his greatest competition might be the guy in Minnesota that I mentioned, Carl Towns. So anyway, that's number two for me. I feel alone and feeling like the best young player in the NBA is still Anthony Davis. What's your number two, Kevin? I think he'll finish top top three in most valuable player voting this year.

What? And maybe that doesn't sound like a stretch on the surface, but I think as you might have seen these numbers, Chris, he's currently in an eight-way tie for the ninth best odds for MVP according to Bavada. So he's not necessarily a favorite right now, but I just think he'll be top three. I think maybe the Wolves make a push for the playoffs, and Anthony Davis will see a huge uptick in numbers

and about those numbers. You mean Towns? You think Towns is going to say, not Davis. Towns. Sorry, my bad. With Towns, last year after the All-Star break, he finished with these ridiculous averages, 28.3, points, 14 rebounds,

four assists, and 1.9 blocks per 100 possessions. So these are projected numbers. However, with those projected numbers, there have only been nine guys in league history who have ever matched those numbers over a full season. Those guys are. Tim Duncan,

who did it 13 times. Shack, who did it eight times. Kevin Garnett, who did it seven times. DeMarcus cousins, our guy, Boogie, did it three times. David Robinson did it twice. Hakeem, Art of Gilmore, and Derek Gilmore, Derek Coleman, all did it once.

That's incredible company for Carl Anthony Towns as a rookie to put up those numbers in the second half of the season. Okay. Let me stop you right here. A, the team sucked. So we do have to take that into consideration. Okay, hold on. The second thing is I do wonder about this and just give you thoughts. Tibido, we're all big fans.

You know you play a ton of minutes with Tibido, right? He doesn't care about you playing a lot of minutes. But is it possible that there is such an honest put on the defensive end of the court that, that it could actually diminish some of the numbers that a great offensive player can put up? Or do we reject that? What do you think? I just think Towns is so good that he can do both ends. I think he could be one of the best players in the league.

I mean, I'm as high as you are on Anthony Davis, but I'm even higher on Carl Towns. It was as a prospect when he came out of the draft, and I am right now with him entering his second season in the league. I think he's someone who's capable of playing 34, 35 minutes the game, and Thibbs is going to run everybody into the ground like he always does, but he can do it at a high level on both ends of the floor. He can protect the rim. He can still switch pick and rolls, but he can also dominate on the offense of the floor.

And I think this season, I think there's a chance that he really, really comes along, just like he did in the second half last year after the All-Star break, if he carries that over and he leads the Wolf to the playoffs, and I think there's a chance of that. I think he'll be right there in the MVP conversation, considering you look at Golden State, they have a lot of MVP favorites. Those of the MVP conversation,

I'm not sure how that'll shake out, but there's at least a chance that happens. Towns is up there with guys like James Harden in the race for MVP. Wow. All right. Well, listen, if you got Towns in the top three in the MVP, you've got to believe Minnesota's making the playoffs. You're not in the top three unless you're in the playoffs, for going to sakes, right?

Yeah, I put them in the playoffs. I would. Okay, okay. All right, Kevin O'Connor, our last one. We've got to get to this one quick. My third one on the thing I feel alone in feeling. And maybe I'm not because a New York hype is always so unbelievable. I think the Knicks are going to be good.

They are projected. They had 32 wins last year. But just hear me out on this. A, I'm not done believing in Rose and Noah as players. And they don't have to be the guys anymore with Carmelo and Porzingas. I love Porzengis. Carmelo, I think, can be kind of invigorated by having some good guys around him. And I just like the idea of them putting, I've covered Courtney Lee for the last couple years.

He's an outstanding role player, right? He doesn't need the ball. Some nights he can get you 17 points. Other nights he might get you six points. But he doesn't need the ball on regular occasion. And he passes and he keeps the ball moving. And the other thing is the same thing goes with Noah. an outstanding passing big man.

And so I like the mesh with the role players and the big guys and the big time players that are going to need shots. I think you need guys on the court that aren't going to take shots. I think they're going to have a big improvement. I think they're a massive improvement. And I think they're going to be in the playoffs. And more important than just the roster, which I think has gotten significantly better.

And I'm still not out on Brandon Jennings. I think he could have a pretty good season for them because he's another year removed from his Achilles deal. and I'm a fan of his. More so than anything, I like Hornacek. I think Hornacek was good in Phoenix, and they were coached by Derek Fisher and Kurt Rambus last year. That alone is worth like infinity wins to me.

So they were so miserably coached. So I got a good coach now, and I got a way upgraded roster. I actually think for the first time in a long time, the New York hype is actually going to come to fruition, and then Knicks are going – not only are they going to be in the playoffs, I think they've a chance to be really good. And I do not feel, I think most, I think the refraining is still. Are you talking Eastern Carpenter's finals good?

Hell no. Come on. Let's not go overboard here. Okay, okay. Hey, East semifinals? I could see. Okay. I could see them playing the Celtics and losing.

I could see them playing the Raptors and losing. I mean, you know, I mean, I don't think Carmelo's done. I don't think he's washed up. yet, obviously there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of scary stuff that goes on with Rose and Noah and are they able to make it through a season? But I'm big on Porzingis. I like Jennings. I mean, I think their eight-man rotations got good players in it now.

And I kind of like the mix of role players and stars. And again, I really like Hornacek. I thought he was great with Phoenix a couple of years ago with that team that, I mean, that team was supposed to be horrible and he almost got him into the playoffs for goodness sake. and the other thing is I think he's good and I think their former coaches were miserable. So anyways, I think actually this is going to be the first fun year and forever for the Knicks and that they're going to be good with a chance to be really good. All right, Kevin, what's your third one?

Oh, wait, you're totally against me on the Knicks, right? Like, you think they're going to suck. Yeah, I mean, I don't think they're going to be good. My big thing is the best player on their bench is kind of Kyle O. Quinn. I think most people would agree that he might be the best player on the bench. What about Willie Hernan Gomez? Oh, I like Hernan Gomez, but is he going to play? Is he ready?

I was kidding. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, I think there's a chance to Nick's meet your expectations, Chris. But, I mean, man, they need a lot to go right for them for that to happen. Hey, I told you I felt alone. All right, your last one that you feel alone on. We're not going to be good.

I think they'll miss the playoffs. And I think there's a chance. Maybe they trade Jimmy Butler by the deadline. I just think they're a roster devoid of two-way talent. team where if they're spacing the floor with their bench players like Doug McDermott and Nicola Meritich, they're going to be poor defensively. However, if they're playing their starters with Jamie Butler, Dwayne Wade, and Rajan Rondo, they're not going to have that good of spacing on their floor. I just think it's going to be hard for Fred Hoyberg to find

lineups with balance. He theoretically could put out something like Wade, Armitter, Meritich, with Lopez, et cetera. How good that team is, I just don't, I just don't like the mesh with these guys. I have an article coming out on Wednesday on the ringer.com that discusses us a lot more in depth, so I don't want to say too much here, but I just don't like the mix that they have. I like all three players individually, but put them together. I just don't see it working. I've tried to see it work. I just don't think it will for them.

Well, and here's the other thing, Kevin. I keep reading all this stuff about, oh, it's Jimmy Butler's team now. I mean, like, you're on it. They acquired Dwayne Wade, like enough already. with the, it's Jimmy Butler's team. They can keep on saying that all you want. Dwayne Wade's on the team, it's going to be Dwayne Wade's team, right? Like that's the guy that everybody in that locker room is going to look up to,

not Jimmy Butler, who was, you know. I mean, that's crazy. It's Jimmy Butler's team now. Like, not if you acquired Dwayne Wade, it's not. No, you're right. I think there's something to be said about their kind of, they're all type A personalities in some ways. And Rondo and Wade have clashed in the past.

Rondo has classed with every single coach he's ever been coached by. There's just a lot that can go wrong with this team. Like if they get off to a bad start, they're talking a lot right now about grinding on defense and causing a lot of turnovers. But it's one thing to say it, and it's another thing for them to actually do it. Rondo is the same guy who said he hasn't played defense in years. That's what he said when he went to Dallas after being traded by the Celtics. And he hasn't played defense since.

Dwayne Wade is a guy who has an on-off switch on the defensive end of the floor. Sometimes he's more interested in complaining about fall calls than he is about running back. And Jimmy Butler, even last year, Butler is a tremendous defender, but with his increase in offense last year, there were moments where he kind of just faded. I like Robin Lopez a lot, but I'm not sure they're going to be as good as the dominole effect.

I think there'll be a good half-cor transition. I can see this going the way you're seeing it, too. I think people look at it go, oh, they got really good players. But Rondo, Butler, and Wade, they all need the ball, every one of them, to be as good as they can be. All right, so here we go. We've got our three things that we feel alone on leading into the NBA season. It's part of our NBA preview. Mine were as follows. The Thunder are not going to be nearly as good as everybody thinks they're going to be. Anthony Davis is still the best young player in the NBA. And the Knicks are going to be good

with a chance to be really good. Your three were, Kevin O'Connor? The Sixers will not be the worst team in the NBA. Three and most valuable player voting, and the Bulls miss the playoffs, and maybe they should trade Jimmy Butler. That could be what we're saying at the trade deadline. There's our first NBA podcast in the books.

You can follow Kevin on Twitter at Kevin O'Connor. Of course, go read all of his articles at The Ringer. You can follow me on Twitter at Chris Vernon's show. one word Chris Martin's show and please subscribe give us a rating unless it's a crappy one and send us feedback in the comments the ringer NBA show and we'll have another episode on Thursday thank you Kevin thank you Chris and thank you everybody for listening talk to you on Thursday