The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 38: Who's Got Staying Power? With Zach Harper

Episode Date: November 1, 2016

The Ringer's Chris Vernon brings on NBA writer Zach Harper to run through the early-season story lines and determine if Russell Westbrook's ridiculous tear will continue (6:00), if Anthony Davis can continue to score 50-plus and still lose (15:00), if the Sixers are better than the Magic (20:00), if the Bulls are for real (25:00), if the Warriors are taking a step back (35:00), and if Kawhi Leonard can become a top-three player in the Association (40:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Bose, the official sound of the NFL. Bose gets players closer to their peak performance and gets you closer to them. How? With powerful products like their quiet comfort 35 wireless headphones. These are Bose's best headphones yet. No noise, no wires, just your music and you. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon.

Today we're going to talk to Zach Harper, formerly of CBS Sports. and now the most coveted NBA free agent in the game. What's up, Zach? Hey, now that Ray Allen's retired, it's just me. I'm the only one who can come in and save your team. You need a job? I mean, if you're hiring, yeah. You need an assistant or something?

I'm game. Are you going to be okay? I hope so. I don't really have any skills other than pretending I know what I'm talking about when it comes. Hopefully, hopefully that translates into something else. But yeah, I think I'll be all. I feel like we're breaking news, though. You haven't, like, spoken about this at all.

I haven't seen you tweet about it. There's no, like, hey, listen, I can get you a free Zach Harper shirt or something. Well, now I'm freed, so I don't think that applies. But, yeah, no, that's a little bit of news. You break on your podcast. Is this the first news you broke it on the podcast? I think this is the first news, yeah. Zach Harper is officially a free agent.

Does this qualify as news? All right. Yeah, I think it does. somebody hires somebody hire Zach or I'm going to have to bring him on the podcast every day nobody wants that at the ringer

we are very we are very close to we only had a couple games at the NBA season but before we get into what we have seen so far and if it matters at all Ray Allen as you mentioned did he did the Players Tribune thing this morning and officially

retired I think there was always kind of this thought in the back of everybody's head, like maybe he'll latch on to a team and knock down some crucial threes in the playoffs, but it's officially, officially done. Did you read the thing on the Players Tribune? I did, yeah. I kind of like those letters to my younger self type of whatever. It's not really an open letter.

It's just kind of like, hey, here's what I wish I knew or could warn myself about, or here's what you'll learn type of thing. And it's always kind of cool to see the psyche of a player, even if they're kind of just, I don't know, some of them don't always seem that. genuine but for the most part like I think it's a cool look into the psyche yeah I think uh you know he he he seemed very self-aware right when he when he when he writes the letter um is self-aware of what people like kind of think about him and you know what was odd is as i am reading that and he's talking about his you know this obsessiveness to become great and how

winning that championship is yes validation or championships in his case validation but but it's kind of like the process, the journey that matters the most. But then there is this tinge of self-awareness of what people think about him. And as I was reading it, I was like, it is kind of odd that everybody thinks. There's at least a portion. Like, when I think of Ray Allen, the first thing I think about is the shot, right? The game six shot, with five seconds left to go. It's the first thing that comes to your mind is like that shot because, I mean, that's San Antonio's title.

Right. At that moment, that's San Antonio's title until it's not. The other thing is the movie does always come up, which is strange. Because it's not like a great movie, but it's certainly like iconic amongst basketball fans. And he is an odd guy to be an actor. Wouldn't you say? Like for him to be the guy that's the actor in that movie is so strange, given his personality. I thought Travis Best as Sid Rogers was just stellar.

I thought he nailed the Sid Rogers role 100%. So I want to credit Travis Best with also being an actor in that movie. But yeah, it's weird because he's always, like, if you've ever talked to him about shooting or just about his job or in general or whatever, he's always so, like, devoid of emotion. And to think of him as an actor, you have to be able to channel emotion, right? But I guess his character was sort of struggling with that of like, do I just keep pursuing what I need to pursue or do I let this emotion of my estranged father essentially coming back to my life? is that. And to think of him having to channel that is so weird because he just compartmentalizes everything and just, you know, he told me one, it actually told me, you know, about 12 days before he hit the shot. I was asking him about being clutch and he was like, yeah, you just kind of have to, you take the emotion out of it. Like, what did you've missed or made the last shot? It doesn't matter for the next shot. And I've always, that's always kind of kind of sat with me of like, we joke about these guys who are good in the clutch being like serial killers. But that's kind of like a serial killer mentality of like just not having emotion. anything you do. The other thing is it's like since Steph Curry has come along and we had never really seen anything like it with the shots he was hit last year. Like Ray Allen today, he would

retire and you know what everybody would be saying? That's the greatest shooter to ever live. But like we just came off the Curry season. Right. Right. And that's the thing. Like Curry's unsteed him as the greatest shooter. I don't know that you can make an argument for Ray at this point because of not only the volume but the difficulty of the shots that Curry takes and the percentage that he hits, like the fact that he's a 44% three-point shooter when he's throwing up these bad video game shots is kind of insane. Maybe Ray comes along five to ten years later. Maybe we're not saying that about Curry.

Maybe Ray is, you know, a thousand more makes in the bank and Curry still has to get up to the point. Well, they show all those highlights today. That's the thing I do love about like when it is that moment, when a guy like like officially retires, then it's just going to lead everybody to posting videos of like Bucks Ray Allen and Sonics Ray Allen and like all these years at the beginning of his career where I don't want to say forgotten because I mean the Bucks were right there at the East finals with a really good team but people don't remember that really, you know, or maybe his

semis. Yeah. Were they, it was the East Finals. It was the Sixers, right? The Iverson year. I think so. They got pretty, yeah, it wasn't that after Vince Carter went to his graduation. We all freaked out for him caring about his education.

Yeah, so, I mean, like, you see those old highlights, and so you're used to seeing him running off of screens and knocking down threes. Like, those are the Ray Allen highlights of the last, like, I don't know, decade. But, like, you see those early highlights? He's, like, cramming on people. It's great. He was in a dunk contest. People forget this. He was in a dumb contest.

Like, he could get up. Now, Grant, Clarence Weatherspoon was also in a dunk contest. And so that's not always a great thing. But, like, he could get up and those old showdowns with Alan Iverson in the big, East back when the Big East was a thing. Those were legit, too. I don't remember the Clarence Weatherstone dunk contest performance.

Yeah, it's not great. Also, Alan Houston was also in a dunk contest. Also, not a great performance. Hold on. Alan Houston was in the dunk contest? Detroit Pistons, Alan Houston. Are you, like, are you dunk contest trivia guy? Is that who you are?

Yeah, it's my favorite thing of All-Star weekend for the last, you know, 25 years or whatever, however long I've been paying attention to it. And I wrote something about Vince Carter two years ago, so it made me like go brush. All right, Zach. Let's go to – most of these teams have played – you know, there's three games, a couple of have played four games so far. But we're going to see – so we've got an insanely small sample size. What we're going to figure out between the two of us is which of this stuff has staying power. So one of the things that stands out immediately is Westbrook has averaged 38.7 points per game, 11.7 assist, and 12.3 rebounds.

Now, it would be insane to think that that has staying power. But I am interested in the whole points per game thing, which he's at 38.7. So I went back and looked. In order to get into the top 10 all time in scoring for a season, per game season, you'd have to average 35. It's like the top ones are just absurd. It's like Wilts Chamberlain 50, Wilts Chamberlain 45. But number three on the list is Wilts Chamberlain 38.4.

then you have an Elgin Baylor at 38.3. Then you have another wilt at 37 points. And then sixth, the sixth best season, points per game, is Jordan. His highest was 37 a game. And then you have wilt and Rick Berry. And then outside of Jordan, the only one like post-1985 is Kobe, who had a 35 point per game season in 0506. What are the chances?

Forget 30. which are 39, I guess. If we round up, he's averaging right now. What are the chances Westbrook can have one of the top 10 points per game seasons of all time? One, that's just a stupid question in the sense that, like, it's stupid to think that this is impossible, right? Because it just doesn't happen. Like, these are dumb numbers that he's putting up that you just can't really wrap your head around. But there's kind of some similarities between what Westbrook is doing now and what Kobe did that season, right?

like the big star leaves. He can finally feel, you know, unshackled by this offense and by these these responsibilities of getting this other score involved. And he can kind of like the whole Jordan ad. Like now I do what I want, right? Like he can kind of embrace this. And it's a lot like that Kobe season of he doesn't have to please anybody. He can just go take as many shots.

Like, Westbrook took 44 shots the other night. 44. Like that's an insane number of shots to take. And some people are saying, yeah, well, if I took 44 shots, I could score. this many points. No, no one would let you take 44 shots. That's the thing we always, we always miss is that there's like nine guys in the league who could get 44 shots off in a game and have it be somewhat respectable. And Westbrook did that. Can you do that every night? Like, I don't know. He, like, he makes me tired just watching him, just watching him do this stuff

night in and night out. I don't know that he has the energy for it, but yeah, I'm in. Like, if you say he's going to score 35 a year, 35 game this year and make it into that top 10 list. I shouldn't buy into it, but I buy it. There's only one other guy, and it's a lot like the Kobe year that you were talking about. There's only only one other guy in the top 20, like in terms of most points per game in a season. And it's another guy with that crazy high usage. It's the Iverson year, 0506. He averaged 33 a game. And that would get you in the top 20 if you average 33 a game. I mean, this guy...

Is it crazy to say, I think 33's a lock? That's a lot of points, but I think it's a lock. Right now, right now, what number could I put? If I gave you over under 34 right now, that would be... So you're saying 33's a lock. Yeah. You take over 34 on points per... I'm going on points per...

I think I might push it 35, but I still might take the over. Like, I think he might get 36 the game, which seems like an overreaction, but I don't see him. I just don't see him not taking shots when they're there. Well, who else is going to shoot? I mean, have you watched them yet? I mean, you watch that team? It's not like Oladipo is going to take some shots, but the rest of these guys like Anthony Roberson and Stephen Adams,

and it's not like there's a bunch of guys that you sit there and go, oh, they should be shooting. Hey, Kyle Singler is an Oregon high school legend. I think we should be respectful of the hair and the jumper that he may have still in this kid. All right, so you somewhat think this Westbrook thing does have staying power. Not 39 points a game, but you're certainly... Not 39. We're not putting in top three all time in terms of scoring season,

but, like, crack in the top 10, yeah, I buy it. By the way, and the scoring thing is not the most insane number. It's the 12 rebounds. What? He's not even, like, it's different if, like, Magic Johnson, who's, like, who's huge, you know, is a guard that grabs a ton of rebounds. Russell Westbrooks is, like, many times the small guy on the court as there is. Yeah, and they have rebounders.

They have Stephen Adams and Annas Cantor. Like, these guys can rebound. DeMontes is a rookie, but he can rebound. And Westbrook's just saying, I'm going to cut out the middleman. I will be my own outlet pass. Like, that's what he's doing. All right. First thing that you want to know if it has staying power that sticks out to you.

Okay, well, we talked about Russell Westbrook's insane scoring. I kind of joked like a month or so ago that this is very un-alvin gentry-like. but with the personnel that they have available, they're just going to have to, like, double down on being a defensive team and then ask Anthony Davis to go be Alan Iverson and win them a game on office, right? Like those 2001, like 2000 to 2002 or three Philadelphia's Sixers teams. But through the first, you know, two, three games, Anthony Davis is averaging 37 a game.

And while I don't know that that has staying power, what I wonder is does him having to do this every night and making them competitive have staying power? Like, can he, like a guy who's brittle, can he physically do this every night and be this much of a usage guy? No way, right? Like, there's no way. I mean, first he's got to prove that he can play 75 games for you. Right.

Yeah, exactly. Because he means, what, 20 a year or around that? And you are putting on a massive load on him, a massive responsibility. Now, in fairness, their schedule so far, I mean, they've lost the first three games of the season. it's absurd to drop 50 and lose. It's absurd to drop 45 and lose. But their two losses outside of that first Denver game are Golden State in San Antonio, which that's not that bad, right?

So, and I know that they took Golden State to the wall, right? That was 114, 112, and they got bombed out by San Antonio. So I can, I don't know. They play Milwaukee tonight, maybe a little better read on the Pelicans as compared to the rest of the league rather than what we have just seen so far. But I don't know. Scoring 50 and losing, that's outrageous. That's outrageous.

It sucks, right? I mean, I actually feel bad for him because it just doesn't, like, that's not what you want to have to go through to put up those kind of numbers and still lose. But this is the problem I have with them is, you know, Tyree Evans will come back and Drew Holiday will come back when, you know, when he's able to, like, you know, leave his wife, you know, to go back to his job. She just had a brain tumor. So, like, that whole situation is really sad.

But until those guys come back, the second leading score on that team is Tim Frazier. Like, we're all basketball nerds here. I'm not sure a lot of people have heard of Tim Frazier before. These are second-leaning score at 13 a game. They just don't have anybody. Their third leading score is Etouin Moore, and their fourth is Lance Stevenson, who just got a contract like last week. I mean, I barely knew he was on the team.

Yeah, you'd figure Terrence Jones. could get you some buckets. And I'm a Buddy healed guy, but Buddy hasn't gotten off to a fast start. That's for sure. No, he's shooting 25%, which I'm sure will go up, but maybe not that much higher. I'm going to make a really bold prediction on the whole staying power thing. Buddy Heald's 1.5 P.E.R will go up. Hold on.

He's got a 1.5 P.E.R. I mean, that's a dead. Get it together, buddy. I don't care if it's three games. Come on. All right. What else do you have? So we're not on it on Sandy Davis holding up, right? This is your – this is about your T-Wolves, Zach Harper.

Andrew Wiggins. He's only played two games, but he's averaged 27 points a game. 52% field goal, 40% from three. And by the way, no assist to his name, Andrew Wiggins. But here's what stands out. He is, even through just a very small amount of games, he's the only guy that has not been an all-star that's in the top 10 in the NBA and scoring, even after a week of games, okay?

Is this the big breakout for Wiggins? You would know better than me. What say you? Yes. I'll say yes because I think Tom Fibito will unlock every defensive capability had. It may take a month or so, but, you know, Andrew Wiggins was asked to guard Jimmy Butler and James Harden and Chris Paul right away as a rookie. Like they just said, you're going to be.

our best wing defender, our best perimeter guy, go lock these guys up. He didn't really know what he was doing. He did a decent job, but under Tom Pibito, he has to know what he's doing or he'll get locked in a dungeon, right? So I think defensive will take that leap. Offensively, not having an assist through two

games as maybe random or maybe that's just a norm because he doesn't get a lot of assists. And even though they run their offense through Carl Anthony Town, their number one option is Andrew Wiggins, if that makes sense. Like, they're always looking to him at the end of a possession to get a bucket. He draws, a ton of fouls. He's going to go to the free throw line a lot this year. They'll probably

shoot over 600 free throws, which approach their franchise record. Like, he's going to do a lot of things offensively with the ball because he has a tighter handle. I don't know the three-point shots there, so if that doesn't fall, then, you know, maybe things tail back a little bit. But like him being a top 10 score, I think, is within reach. So, yeah, I'm in. Is Wiggins going to be a superstar? I think so. But I think it's going to take a little bit longer. It's weird because as soon we figured out Carl Anthe Towns is the new, you know, the new Tim Duncan

or whatever we want to call him, once we figure that out, like a lot of Timberwolves fans were just like, oh, what do we need Wiggins for? Like, no, no, no, no, you need all these guys. Like, you need all these guys to be good. You can't just go off the one. But he just got pushed aside. And after his rookie year, you know, people maybe as dumb as myself were

saying, like, yeah, he could be Paul George. Like, that's what he could be. I still think that that's capable. He has that capability and that feeling. But he needs, to become a three-point shooter. I'm not sold on that just yet. Well, they get you up right, the guy that immediately comes to mind that could score a ton of points without necessarily knocking down threes

is DeRosen. Right, yeah, and that's what he gets compared to a lot, and I think he'll be better than DeRosen. Maybe that's crazy me. I'm discounting DeRosen. But I think that his feeling is higher than what DeRosen currently is. I think that's fair. All right, so you're in on this. You think Wiggins is an all-star

this year? I think he'll be all-star worthy, but the Tim Wolves aren't getting two guys in. I think Katz going to be a lock for, I think he'll get voted into the All-Star game, let alone just make the All-Star team. So I think Wiggins will be worthy, but I don't know that he makes it. I got you. All right, next thing that you want to know if it's

got staying power. So, I'm trying to figure out if it's on Whiteside's a good defender. Now, I know he blocks a lot of shots, and this is already made Miami furious. But I know he blocks a lot of shots, but teams were just putting him in the pick and roll

last year and just feasting on him because he couldn't really defend away from the basket. So far this year he's been better at that, and he's defending at the basket, like, he's allowing like 23% at the rim. Now, you know, all the qualifiers of it being a small sample or whatever, but like allowing 23% at the rim, he was like 46, 47% last year. I don't know that 23% holds up, but could he be maybe the best big man defender not named Marcusoll in the NBA? Well, the other guy that's like that, and I brought this up on the, on the,

last podcast is uh is is is drummond you know people like oh he's a good room protector whatever but he was pitiful defending the rim and i think yeah and the other thing that comes up right you when you bring up the white side stuff it's like yeah he blocks a lot of shots but somehow they weren't as good defensively with him out on the floor right last year which we'll always yeah and we're talking like umari stadomar yudan has one backing him up like it's not like he had Omerichique or Rudy Gobert behind I'm going to do a he's averaging the three blocks

a game I'm that one we've got to wait that has to have a bigger sample size than the three games because they lost their first two and I don't know if you saw any of the magic the magic are awful by the way they're really

bad they're really bad they're really really bad I tell you they got that Jeff Green poison man when they signed him for 15 million I'm like what are you doing you. What he, what? No disrespect to Jeff Green, but he's poisoned. It doesn't seem to, it doesn't go well when you acquire him all that often.

For anybody. And you immediately get better when he's not there. It's the damnedest thing. I still can't believe it. But, yeah, that magic team, I mean, just very, Vogel's going to go crazy this year. He really is. He's going to go crazy because I don't think anybody expected that team to be really, really bad, but they might be really, really bad.

Yeah, no. I mean, that crazy to ask? What? They have no offense. Okay, come on. Let's not go that far. The Sixers are sort of confident, and we're all in love with Joel and Bede. If they get Ben Simmons back in two months or something like that, you know, I mean, I don't know.

Like, maybe that's just really different. He's a really good coach, but I don't know. Like, who's their best player? Their best players, Aaron Gordon, but they don't go through him. like Fusevich is their number one option or Evan Fornier? Like that's not good. Well, everybody used to love Ibaka when he was playing with Durant and Westbrook. Nobody loves Ibaka anymore.

Yeah, it turns out Alfred Payton, not Russell Westbrook. Elford Payton. Fornegade is their best guy, right? He's their best guy. Right, but what does that mean? Like, that's not something you hang your hat on. No offense to Evan Fornier, but, I mean, he's a good shooter. He's a solid score, but no one's talented.

No one's like putting Evan Forney on a front of a media guide going, here we go, championship. I think that's fair. But listen, you lowered the bar like ultra lower. Are they going to be worse than the Sixers? Come on. I mean, this isn't a 22-win-sixers team. I mean, Embed is fun, but let's not get carried away.

They have one other guy averaging double digits, and it's Sergio Rodriguez. Okay. Listen, hey, let me go down their scoring leaders right now. on the Sixers. Joel Embed, 17 a game, in only 19 minutes per game, but they've only played twice, right? But just through two games, Embed, then Rodriguez, Nick Stouskis, Jeremy Grant, Rishon Holmes. Who? Wow. Yeah.

This is not a good list. I mean, at least the magic had players you'd heard of. I mean, Rishon Holmes could walk in this studio right now. I'd have no idea who that is. he's the tall one I can help you out with that that's all I know oh and there's basketball podcast nerd

that's out there listening right now Chris Vernon doesn't even know the league he doesn't even know who Rashan Holmes is sorry I'm sorry to basketball nerd and Rashard Holmes or Rashad Rashon is it Rashon

Rashon Holmes He's good in Summer League I know that maybe he'll be good in the NBA Who knows We'll get right back into it After this word from our sponsor Before we go on, I want to thank today's sponsor, Bose.

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I think we both have questions about the Chicago Bulls team. their 3-0, they've looked unbelievable so far. Is this real? You know, here's the thing. On the 3-0, I would immediately say, come on, they've only played three games, but they played Boston and they played Indiana. It's one thing to beat the brakes off of Brooklyn like they did. It's like there's going to be a lot of teams that get to wrest their starters against Brooklyn.

But they're the worst by far, by the way. Brooklyn. They're miserable. Yeah. Right. Yeah, they're really bad. But being that they beat Boston and being that they beat Indiana, and here's the other thing, they're playing fast. They also, I mean, obviously they knocked down the threes and Wade was knocking down threes.

And so, who knows, on his whole evolution, he looks really good to start off the season. And just the fact that they're kind of all playing together so well so quickly is really, rather shocking to me. I think everybody has gotten in love with this whole, they can't shoot, they can't shoot, they can't shoot, and there's a truth to that. There's no way around it. But what is not, what kind of gets commonly forgotten is they're all good, they're all good players, right? And Butler is outstanding. And I don't know, I'm kind of, I am kind of persuaded by the fact that we're looking at Golden State and going, eh, just give them some time to figure it out. Well, it hasn't really, when you can come out the gate and beat Boston, Indiana,

and you've looked as good as they have so far, I'm kind of persuaded that they can be better than maybe what a lot of people thought they were going to be. What about you? Here's my worry about them is, like, I'm afraid they're going to end up how I feel about David Blaine, the magician. David Blaine, I do have a point here at some point. David Blaine does these things where he's like, I'm going to live in a box for 40 days above month, or I'm going to hold my breath for 12 minutes underwater, and this is a big television event. And then he gets to like 30 days.

He's like, all right, I've got to come out of the box. He gets to like eight minutes holding his breath underwater. He's like, oh, I've got to come up for air. And those are both impressive things, but you set the bar so much higher than that that it ends up being a disappointment. So the fact that the Bulls have come out of the gate, 3 and O, and the best offense of the league,

and playing weights and threes, and, you know, they're playing competent basketball and they're bullying everybody on the boards and all this stuff. The fact that they've done that early, I think that makes me think they're just David Blaine of like they're going to pull up short at some point and it'll end up having been a good season for them, but they've already raised expectations with this and they're going to become a disappointment because of that, if that makes sense. David Blaine's got a special coming out this week too, so it's a perfect analogy, even though I don't even know what that means. And he'll justify, like he'll do 75% of what he's going to do on what he says he's going to do on that special, which will be impressive had he not set the bar above that. I don't even know what the special is. I just know he hits 75% of whatever he's going to do. But in fairness, what's the bar for the Bulls?

I didn't feel like people were rather high on them going into this year. Did you? No, but I think, no, I don't think they were. I wasn't. I think a lot of people were kind of like wondering how this would all fit together. But I think the fact they start out so hot going 3 and 0. beating the Celtics, beating the Pacers, like beating these good Eastern Conference teams. The fact that they've done that, that has to immediately, at least like in the casual

fans' mind, we sort of paying attention to them, that has to raise the expectations. Like, hey, those teams for real, and I don't know that they are. Yeah, maybe we'll give them a little bit more time, but, I mean, we've got to say, it's pretty impressive that they're playing as well as they are. I did not think it would work together. Like, they'd be able to play together. But not only if they played together, they played great together, so far, so far, so far. Yeah, and like I don't think

Rayon Rondo is that good anymore because of the injuries and just, you know, generally not seeming to care about what his job is, but going from Derek Rose to Réjohn Rondo maybe affects the Fred Hoyberg offense a little bit in a positive way. Oh, that's fair, yeah.

Because, yeah, certainly, listen, he still passes the ball all the time. He's not, you know, he can't shoot, but he doesn't shoot a lot, so it's fair, right? Like, I mean, I know people like... Yeah, like... It's not like he has brand.

It's not like he has Brandon Jennings' shot selection, right? Like, he just won't shoot. Yeah, no, I mean, that's the knock. But listen, if the guy can't shoot, fine. He shoots it seven times a game. I want him passing all the time. Right, exactly. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't know. I kill the guy that can't shoot and then still shoots all the time. He at least, he has some relative awareness. It's not like he's out there taking 20 shots a game or something. The guy shoots it seven times in the damn game. and two of them are layups and you just need them to like store to play defense and let everybody

else do the work. Right. I agree with you. All right. So we'll see on the Bulls. All right, what are we making of the Warriors? I think just the idea that they didn't come out the gate for first they got smashed in their first game but even the last couple the fact that they have not

demolished people has given people cause for pause. Does that have staying power? Are we going to look back and this isn't like last year, where, you know, you'll be watching one game and then, like, I have flashbacks of this. You'll be watching a game and then that, like, scroll will come across the bottom of the screen and it'll say, like, second quarter, Golden State, 74, you know, whoever, bucks 47,

you'd be like, what in the world? It's 74 points in the second quarter. Like, am I going to see that again? Am I going to be watching? Like, is this just going to get figured out? and that is going to be the case. Or is there anything we can take out of this so far that they're not just, they haven't come out of the gate, just maiming people?

Not going to be the 2012-2013 Lakers, right? Like that's where it was like this is going to be fun, Sports Illustrated cover, and four all-stars on the team. And now we, you know, we can really see them just dominate the league. And then they come out and for various reasons, injury, coaching changes, all this stuff. They didn't come, they didn't like set the world on. far like we thought. It's not going to be that, but like, can they approach that? I mean, Draymond Green's mom after the first game is tweeting,

Draymond's not being used about this. This is broken. Like, saying this is broken after a game when they got blown out by the spurs. Like that seems, I know there's a little bit of bias there with Drayvon's mom, but like that's extreme, right? I think it's extreme to say there's a little bit of bias with Draymond's mom. Come on, say. A little, you think she's a little biased or not? All right, you might be quite biased.

I mean, there might be a little bit of bias of Draymond Green's mom. Okay, all right. Maybe I should ratchet that up a little bit. All right, Raymond's usage dropped, Clay's usage has dropped so far, but they're still good. Like, maybe they're not blowing teams out, but that's got to come at some point. I mean, I guess the defense is the problem, like defense and rebounding. are the problems for them so far.

Well, they've got the two. All right. So, everybody, you got, so far, again, we're dealing all of this is kind of goofy with the sample size being so small. But Durant's averaging 31. Curry's averaging 26. If those things held, like if you told me at the end of the season that those were the numbers, that wouldn't be that shocking. Clay's averaging 18, and then Draymond's averaging 10. Nobody else on the team is averaging over six points.

And that may sound crazy, except I went back and looked. And they didn't have guys averaging – like, Iguado only averaged seven points a game last year. I think that would shock people. And they just had, like, guys like Barbosa average seven points, and Spate's average seven points. And it's kind of like they all just kind of average seven after their big dogs. But I do wonder, when you look at their bench, I think it gives you – So those guys are going to have the huge numbers every night, right? And they're going to get you combined between Durant, Curry, and Thompson and Draymond, right?

you kick in whatever points he gets you. But then behind that, it is Pichulia, Andrea Gwadala, Livingston, David West, and then you get into the deep bench, right? Ian Clark, Patrick McCall, Jeffal McGee, Kevin Looney. I don't know. I don't know. Like, you do, you, like, those four guys are going to have to,

those are the four guys that are averaging double digits right now. And then you wonder, like, where the bench pop is, coming from because there were nights last year you know barns was get there's probably at least seven or eight times last year that he dropped 20 on somebody right um yeah oh yeah for sure you know i mean he was he was getting you a 20 spot or you could have a big spate's night right where he just he just goes off um you know he comes in and cur leaves him in and he makes his first six of seven shots and next thing you know spates has gotten you 18 points or whatever i do kind of wonder once you get past their first four guys, you know, is anybody who else is going to have a 20-point game?

Maybe Idredala? Maybe. Yeah, like, maybe Iggyzgen can get, you know, or Sean Livingston has those right random, like, oh, you can't guard him in the post game. And he runs off like 12 points in a quarter, right? Yeah. Or maybe he does that. There were two alarming things to me this past, or this weekend, where I saw Warriors people tweeted like, See, this is the kind of effort they need out of Kevin Looney.

And I was thinking like, all right, if Kevin Looney is that important to your team. So with Looney McCaugh, like, if you're counting that much on a first-year guy and a second-year guy either being injured or having a big effort off the bench, like, I don't, like, that's not what a juggernaut is supposed to rely on. They're supposed to be better than that. No offense to Patrick McCaw and Kevin Looney, by the way. No, they're, you know, future Hall of Famers, I'm sure. But there is a limit. I wonder if their moms are biased.

No one's, maybe not as much as Draymond. By the way, how do I follow Draymond Green's mom? I don't follow her. Is she worth following? She's entertaining. She's as entertaining as anyone's mom, for sure. Yeah, I need to find her on Twitter and start following her, that's for sure. All right, what else, last thing that has really

stood out to you so far in this insanely small sample size that you want to know if it's got staying power. What you got? Okay, after the finals last year, I think we can agree that LeBron is firmly in the top three player conversation, right? Probably number one. I don't think we have to worry about that.

But is Kauai Leonard good enough to unseat either Steph Curry or Kevin Durant as a top, top three player? Because he's been ridiculous in the first week of the season. Ooh, I like this. I like this more than Charles Barkley saying Clay Thompson is the best player in the league. Come on, Charles. Oh, really? that was a bridge too far for me.

I love Charles Barkley, but enough with the Clay Thompson is the best player. He also puts Kauai up there, by the way, so I'll give credit to Charles for that. I think life without Tim Duncan being the best player on one of the best teams in the league, and somebody's going to take a little bit of a back seat between, right? They were both the alpha dogs on their teams, I think it's fair to say, with Durant and, Durant and Curry. I think we're going to have a really interesting discussion this year because you brought up Anthony Davis earlier. Westbrook's stats are going to be so absurd.

I think when it all comes down, hardened stats are going to be so absurd. I think we're set up right now to have the most vehement argument on the top 10 players in the league that we have had in a law. And that means the league's in great shape, right? Because you're leaving somebody. How about this? Let's just cut it down to five, right? Don't you think if we did, if we polled people and said, who are the top five players in the league,

you have to have Kauai in there, right? You said top three. But let's just get rid of the argument. Kauai is a top five player in the league. Durant is a top five player in the league. LeBron is. You have to have Curry because he's won the two MVP's, right? Yeah, right, exactly.

Okay. So now, once we get to whatever, and whatever number you want to put in it, I mean, are you taking Westbrook? Are you taking Harden? You take in, you know, I don't know. Kyrie Irving, right, after his final performance last year, Anthony Davis. Ramon Green, Anthony Davis, Blake Griffin. Like, all these guys, like, you may have 10 top five players in the league if that makes sense. Paul George?

Yeah, Paul George is in there. By the end of the season, Carl Anthony Towns could be in the conversation. like he's that good. I mean, you've got a ton of top talent. So you would say, so top three, I think, I think, I would say yes on your, on your Kauai one. I think we could look up at the end of the year. And for basketball fans that respect both ends of the court, because he's the best, you know, he's as good at perimeter defender as there is in the NBA.

So you got that. And then if you got the whole, if he's going to put up big numbers too offensively, Yeah, I think Kauai could be right up there You'd probably say Kauai, LeBron, and then you'd really have to I mean, who would you take? Would you rather have Durant or Curry? I mean, I'd rather, wow, I guess I'd rather have

Durant? Is that dumb? I mean, Curry just won two straight MVP than was unanimous and has broken all these three-point records and has made us change. Like, he makes defenders nervous as he crosses half court. Like this, I mean, you have to start guarding him at half court, like, legitimately.

That's not just hyperbole. Like, so is it dumb? Like, Kevin Durant's a 6'11 shooting guard. And not just, like, a shooting guard. Like, he's great. He's, you know, he's putting up these historic true shooting percentages for guys who score as many points as he does. And it's not just happening at the rim.

Like, he can hit a shot from anywhere. So, like, I guess I would take Durant, but that kind of sounds stupid to me. What's crazy is that finals really hurt Curry. It just, perception-wise. We are having a totally different conversation if they win that last year. We just are. That's how much that mattered. We're saying Curry is the lock in the top three.

It's LeBron or Durant getting up, you know, unseated, right? Right. Like, that's what we're talking about. And the thing about Kauai on defense, like, granted, it's Ben McLemore. But there was a sequence the other night where he just, I mean, he literally just took the ball from Ben Mclemore three straight times down the floor. Like, he was, I mean, if you wanted an answer. anti-bullying ad, you would put that sequence in the video and say, we have to stop this, this, you know, attacking young people.

Like, that's what it would be, Kauai. He would be the anti-bullying poster because he was just that mean to Ben McElmore. Like, he is a guy you can't, like, if you, if you had to dribble against Kauai Leonard and bring the ball up the court, how far do you think you get? Do you get to the free throw line? I mean, I'd have to, is a, I'd have to take a hard angle to get to the free throw line. No, I think if you, like if he was guarding me on an inbound, I would never get the ball. You would never get the ball.

Okay. How about this? How about this? Kowai Leonard, you get me the ball. You like pass it in inbound just under the basket, right? And we're going to put him at the free throw line. Yeah, I would say I have a zero percent chance of getting to the free throw line. All I have to do is from the baseline to the free throw line.

Get past him, right? it's almost like a video game. And I have to get past him. No. I think you could throw me that ball a hundred times and I would never get past him. Probably half the time you missed the catch just because you're worried about him attacking you, right? And how many times would he steal it from me? I would say of the hundred times I had a chance, 97.

There has to be a certain point where, like, you just see him come and you just throw the ball out of bounds because you're tired of them take the ball from you, right? Like, you would just volunteer a turnover. Yeah, like, I couldn't even do the whole back-to-him thing. Because his arms are so crazy long. Yeah. Yeah, you'd reach over you. You'd have those suction cup hands, and it just removed the ball by gravity.

I really, honestly, now that you've, I'm trying to play this out of my mind, I can't think of a more humiliating athletic experience. Maybe, like, trying to tackle, I don't know, like one of these, like, Garrett Blunt or something. then, that would be worse. Right, that sounds awful. Like, if you say you've got to tackle, you've got to stop Ligarrett Blunt from getting into the end zone, that would be the only thing that I could think would be more humiliation, or like try to hit Eraldus Chapman.

Like, those might be the three most humiliating things. Attempting to dribble against Kauai Leonard, attempting to tackle Ligarup Blunt, and attempting to hit, like, Aral this Chapman. Like, all three of them, I can't, I can hardly think of athletic. scenarios of where I would look more foolish. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm an overly confident, overly confident basketball player for my ability. I can dribble pretty well. Like, I don't, I don't think I can get to the free-for-line. I really don't. Like, I think if he was even halfway tuned in to what I was doing,

it would just be, it would just be pain. Like, it would just be a painful experience. How tall are you? I'm six feet tall. Six feet? And you're pretty good? I mean, I'd like to say. think I have Steph Curry range. That's where I shoot it from, whether or whether it goes in or not. I'm a chucker. I'm a gunner. It's why I love Jamal Crawford. It's why I love Ricky Davis. I love all these gunners. I don't care that if it's bad basketball, you give me a guy who

thinks he can go get a bucket. That is me. You never drive. Do you ever drive? Not a, no, I'm 34 now. There's no driving. There's no driving. There's me freeing up for a shot on the perimeter. Driving with 10 years ago. That's been a lot at this point. I know the feeling. The driving day. are long gone. I agree with you. Long gone, yeah. My knees just laughing me if I have a first step. Zach Harper, I couldn't

be more happy that you were willing to come on the ringer pod with me today. And, hey, I hope you find a job. I hope I do too. I appreciate the invite. I appreciate the hospitality, and I appreciate the shout-out. My man. Thanks, Zach. You can follow him on Twitter at

Talk Hoops. He's Zach Harper. That does it for another edition of the NBA pod.