The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 40: KD vs. Westbrook

Episode Date: November 3, 2016

Chris Vernon welcomes Shea Serrano to discuss tonight's meeting between the Warriors and the Thunder, bench celebrations (31:10), and Shea's experience going away to college (35:20). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ringer NBA show today. We're going to talk to Shea Serrano, staff writer at the ringer, author, New York Times bestseller. The Wrap Yearbook is the book. If you don't have it, you should go buy it immediately. And it is the day of Russ versus Kevin Durant. So how early did you wake up, Shea Serrano? I was up maybe about 445 this morning. 445.

Now, did you wake up at 445 because that would be when you would normally get up, or was it the brimmy and it excitement of Russ versus Kevin Durant? I was so, like in a horror movie with a monster comes to life. Like, he jolts, oh, my God, that's what I did. All right, so is this, you posted yesterday, when all this went down and Durant went to the Warriors and Westbrook stayed where he was, is this good guy versus bad guy in your mind? Yes. Why?

I knew when I said 100% yesterday I was supposed to keep talking right there. I want to see how long it's going to take of me not saying anything before you ask me why. In my head, it's not actually good guy versus a bad guy, but it's just more fun to put those sort of storylines in place when you're watching the game. I think the best part of all of this stuff is of any sort of sport is always the human drama part. So I'd just like to plug those things in there because it makes for a more fun watching experience. So, yeah, Russ is the good guy.

Yeah. Katie's the bad guy. That's what I want to talk about. Why is Kevin Durant the bad guy? When you framed it in your article, you framed it like Batman leaving the people of Gotham and teaming up with the Joker. And you gave all these different things. Like, imagine if the good guy went and teamed up with the bad guys. Do you find it hard at all to frame Durant as a bad guy?

He's not very intimidating. He's never been just a scary person to me to watch. Like, if you watch, when you watch Russell Westbrook play basketball, it's intimidating. I know that he's reckless and a lot of times inefficient, and he's not as good at basketball as Kevin Durant is, but I'm still more afraid of him than I am Kevin Durant. Just because of the way he presents himself, you kind of have to squint a little bit to make Kevin Durant a bad guy.

Yeah, he's the bad guy. Do you find it hard at all to make Westbrook a good guy? No, no. You can make Westbrook, whatever. Like, he's sort of, he's putting off this vibe that he's the good guy by just not saying that he's not the good guy. You know what I'm saying? He's taking advantage of the way that Durant left O.K.C.

You can see, you could see it's sort of starting to play itself out of him out. Or he's not exonerating KD for leaving without saying, fuck that guy. You know what I'm saying? So he just falls into that role by default. You wondered in the article if Russ's decision can be attributed to making it worse for Kevin Durant. Now, you wondered that aloud, but how much of it do you really believe that Russell Westbrook went back to Oklahoma City so that it would make Durant look even worse? I believe he did that 100%. I feel like he definitely sat down and said,

what's the thing that I can do that with the blowback that Kevin Durant will experience? Oh, I'm going to stay here. I'm going to stay ten toes down in Oklahoma City, and everybody would just blow up. Because if he leaves, then it doesn't just become a Durant thing. It's like, okay, see, he blew up. They fell apart. Everything exploded on him if he leaves too.

But when he stayed, he was like, oh, well, this guy, this could have been saved. That's pretty demonic. Don't you think at all it's possibly that it was a financial decision? Or no? No. He was going to get paid wherever he went. We can't pretend like Russell Westbrook wasn't going to get a check anywhere else. You know what I'm saying?

He just knew. He knew it's going to make it worse. I'm going to pretend like he did, even if he didn't. Are you surprised he stayed? Are you surprised Russell Westbrook's playing for the Thunder this year? No. No, because if you would have told me before, what's the one thing that Russ could do to make it worse for KD?

I knew he was going to be staying OKC, so that's what he's going to do. That's what I expected to do. As soon as he left, as soon as KD left, he's staying there. That's his team now. He's going to just be that guy who is going to spend the rest of his career trying to shit on KD. So what do we make of what happened the last like eight years? And then we just saw like, what, three, four months ago sitting at a podium together, right, standing up for each other at the end of games or whatever.

Was that all a mirage? Do we think that KD and what do we make in retrospect of their relationship? What we make of it is the bad guy. That's what all that means. You do all of that and then you leave. You can't say, I'm going to talk all day long about how great the ringer is. It's the best place to work. It's the best place to work.

And then on Monday of next week, guess what guys, I got a new job. job. It turns all of that fake. You know what I'm saying? It makes all of that look bad. So him doing all that stuff with all those times. To me, you're standing there defending Russell Westbroe calling Mark Cuban an idiot.

Like, oh, I got your back. I got you, Russ. Russ, I got you. And then, you know what? Never mind. I was just kidding. I'm out of here. That's what it feels like. Do you think they were ever really friends? That's hard to say. I don't know that anybody's ever been a friend with Russell Westbro.

he seems like not the friend type it seems to me like you're friends with Russell Westbrook the way you're friends with like a kid in your class who's always pick it on you and that you just sort of hope he picks on you left that's what I feel like

his relationship was with Kevin Durant he was just sort of hoping to not get picked on as much how many friends do you think Russell Westbrook really has like real friends real friends real friends it's just like he just like he just

hangs out with them and they have a good time. Everybody has a good time, not just Russell Westbrook. Yeah, and he, like, text. He texts with him about stuff. Like, after the game, like, you know, he'll text with them about stuff, or maybe it's a guy he goes and hangs out with, or guys he goes and hangs out with. How many? You know what?

I'm sure he has several people that he does that with, but I don't know how many of those people feel, like, excited about it. Maybe it's just, he's so intimidating that if he sent me a time, text, it would feel to me like when your boss emails you. Like, you're just not certain what's going on. Every time he would send me a text, I feel like we're about to fight. That's what's happening right now. Every time I get an email from a boss, I'm like, oh, this is when I get fired.

Same thing with Russ. The way it has gone so far for Russell Westbrook, setting the league on fire with these absurd numbers, and the way it's gone for Durant so far. Is this the perfect scenario? What's happened so far leading into tonight? Yes. Russ is very much just sort of shooting all of his guns into the jungle. Like in The Predator, when they're just like, they all just line up and start shooting.

They don't know what they're shooting at. Just going. Thousands and thousands of rounds into nothing. That's what Russ is doing in the NBA. He is the NBA version of Predator. What is Kevin Durant doing? Kevin Durant. I watched them play.

And, of course, it doesn't feel like last year. they were just all as soon as they were in their mode. It was one big unit that had formed together, and right now they're figuring out where the pieces go still. So they're not ready to be looked at just yet. Right now they feel a little disjointed, like they're still figuring the pieces out, which I figured by like three or four months they're going to be unstoppable.

But right now, right now is a perfect time for them to play because they might be able to beat them. Okay, C might be able to beat goals. What about Oklahoma City? What do we make of what they're going to be able to be? They're going to be exactly what they are right now. He can't. He can't.

Russell Westbrook can do this probably for the next nine years. And then his heart's just going to explode. Shea, come on. The body will turn into dust. He's averaging 38 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists. Come on. He's not going to average 38. 10 and 10.

He average 38, 10 and 10 until Katie is out of the NBA. Or Hill explodes. If you worry right now, like if they just developed a super fantastic microscopic gigantic telescope that lets you look inside of, like if you looked inside of the sun right now, it's like 10 million Russell Westbrook's just dunking on everything. Like that's the power that's saving all of Earth. That's what Russell Westbrook has experienced. He's filled with so much hate that he can do anything.

He'll never forgive Kevin Durant. Never, never. Even if everybody else does, even if Kevin Durant apologizes, just openly like that, I'm sorry. I would never be forgiven by Russell Westbrook. Because he's already a pissed off guy, right? Westbrook was already, certainly, before that ever happened. Yes, yes, that's exactly.

He's already mad at everything. He was mad at KD while they were. supposed to be friends. And now you turn your back on Westbrook. And I know he didn't actually turn his back on Westbrook, but that's just how he probably sees it. I'm guessing. That's how I see it anyway, if I was in his spot.

What if you explained all of this to Russell Westbrook, and then he was like, Shay, I really don't feel that way at all. I'm like there's 100% chances that could never happen. For me, I would never be able to just stay in the tears because he's just going to be staring at you or doing the thing when he looks at you where you're like, you feel bad that you exist. Sometimes I watch a what Russell Westwood interview,

and it makes me feel like I'm worthless. When he just talked him and tell him all this stuff, I don't think I'd make it very far. But if I somehow did get it out, I don't think he would say I agree or disagree. I think he would give you that look. And then he'd be, and then he would say, you know what, you know what, Shay, you're right.

F that guy. Against the Hornet. What is the best possible scenario for tonight? the best possible scenario is what I outlined in that article I want in KD to meet at one KD trying to block them we never got it we couldn't

when LeBron left Cleveland there was no like can't dunk on anybody he can't dunk that demon away when Shaq and Kobe separated we never got that moment there was one I think the first time they played was I got on a Christmas day game and there was one time where Shaq filed them

kind of hard and everybody was like oh my god is it happening but we never got the big, big. There's potential for that to happen here just with the way to go to the wrestling place. And if Russell Westbrook does, in fact, dunk on Kevin Durant, the world explodes? If he dunks on Kevin Durant,

I can't even, I don't even go, man. It's going to be fantastic. It's going to be so great. It will be so much worse than all of the 3-1 lead jokes that goes up to the truth thus far. It's probably going to be worse than that until everybody's sort of forgets.

You have called when Durrard Grant gets switched on to Westbrook tonight, the most anticipated moment of the last half-dozen years. What other moments could even compare to you? When LeBron, he left to him. But again, I think this one is more exciting just because when he was going back to Cleveland, there was no – it was the Cavaliers without LeBron. They were not a very good team.

The weaker team, but it's Russell Westbrook. You know he's not going to back down. You know, above all the things that Russell Westbrook will never. back down. So it's just, I think they're probably all win in the finals or losing the final. Beyond that, there's really nothing that can touch what's about to happen tonight.

What about if it was in OKC? Is it better that it's in Golden State the first go-round, or would it be better if it's in Oklahoma City? Because what you have right here is you have, it's Russell Westbrook against everybody. You want

him walking into the Persian army, like Leonhard. with his little team against all of these people. You know what I'm saying? We will process the Kevin Durant going back to OKC thing later on. But right now it needed to be Russell Westbrook versus Kevin Durant. When he goes to the OKC, it's going to be kept there we needed. It's all perfect, man.

It's so perfect. You're really framing Russell Westbrook as this like valiant hero. Yes. He's a play. And he's playing it perfect right now. And so the terrible outcome would be that the warriors just wipe them off the face of the earth. That would be the worst. In your mind?

No. That's probably going to happen. That's not the worst. For me, the worst is that like four minutes into the first court. Oh, no. Outside of that, as long as he's on the court, it's going to be fantastic. Everything that he does during this game is going to be great because you're going to be able to look at it. just extrapolate whatever you want from it.

They're not going to shake hands before the game starts because Kevin Grant, that's not a thing that he does. I just wrote a reading this and he mentioned that. He said he never shakes hands on the game, no. So you're just going to, starting from tip off all the way to the end of the game, you're just going to be here. What is Westbrook going to do? Because there's a million options.

You can't put it. Can you make any argument for Durant playing for the Golden State Warriors? that you believe that he goes to the goal to say where is it the best team in the league already what more do you need to join the team

than for that team to become the best team in the league they're going to win the championship this year I don't think there's any way that they don't win the championship reason you need now I don't think it's going to be as cool as if he would have stayed in OKC

but you know that's that's more of a person but you think less of it's fair to say you think less of Kevin Durant yes Yes, I would rather I would rather he stayed there in OKC

It would have been great if he would have just been like You know what? Even if I never win a championship I'm staying in OKC for my whole entire career If he would have said something like that And then signed this new contract I think a lot of pressure

would have been taken off of him To win one You know, here's a guy who would rather Be loyal than get a ring That would have been great Now he leaves And even if he wins one

it's going to be like, well, you won one there. The same thing, like the same thing that happened with LeBron. He got one, he got two, and it was like, okay, but you didn't really get, like, you didn't get one and get one. You know, I think the same thing's going to happen to KB. Do you think LeBron changed the way we think about loyalty because he did go back to Cleveland? I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I don't think he changed that, no. You'd go, you'd always go home. If Durant goes home, it's going to be really cool. I don't think that will happen. You don't think the perception of LeBron has changed dramatically because he won a title for Cleveland? Like if he would have just played it all out at Miami for the rest of time. Oh, yeah. That's what I thought you, man.

Everybody went always crapped on. I thought he'd be claustically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him going back was great for LeBron. I don't think he changed just the idea of loyalty in general. But the idea of him being loyal, yes, he definitely, when he went back to Cleveland, everything changed. Him winning one there is better than if he had won, like, four or five in Miami, because he's exonerated forever.

He did that. He's untouchable. And I think that, and I think we've seen that from him in his attitude. After he won two, after he won a second one in Miami, he had like one little tiny message where he was like, oh, back. But in this case, when he won, he's been celebrating since it happened. And then he did, of course, the thing of the Halloween party was like the, the Steph and Clay cookies

and the 3-1 lead thing and the drum kick man thing. It's been great to watch him. What if Durant did it? What if he goes to Golden State and wins a couple and then goes back to Oklahoma City? No? No, because if he does it, it's going to be like,

oh, man, you did what you just did what. He's been chasing LeBron for so long that he, I don't know. If he does it, you're going to say, well, he did it second again. His whole thing is like, I'm tired of being second, I'm tired of me a second. And then if he did that, he'd copied LeBron. I don't know.

He just got to stay there forever. I would actually, like, you know, just goof on it or write it off. Like, the whole psychology of it. But it does seem like Russ has, he's like, you know, like you said, F this guy, and he don't want to answer the questions, whatever. And then, like, Duran, I'm not so sure he's still totally comfortable with what he's done. And I just say that because he got the. goofy tattoos and everything, and I was like, what is going on with this guy?

Right? Like, who gets a massive tattoo of Rick James and Tupac? I didn't know what's going on with him. It does seem like he feels a little uncomfortable. I think eventually he'll get there. But yeah, right. It's because Russ won't say it's okay. And as soon as Russ says that, you know what, it's fine.

You're left. It's fine. whatever. If he says that, then okay, but Russ Westwood's never going to say that. And so Kevin Durant is just always going to be cast in that role, and it's not the natural role for him. I do think it might have messed with his head a little bit because, like I said, the Rick James tattoo or whatever,

like that is wildly out of character for him, right? Or maybe my perception of him was just all wrong, but I don't get it, man. I don't know. Amongst players, if I told you Shay, if I said Shea, most likely players to get massive tattoos of Rick James on their thigh. Kevin DeRant, like, what is he ranked on that list? Like, a thousand? No. No, you know what?

For me, Kevin Durant would have been number one on that list. What? I said, yeah, he would have been number one to get the tattoo. I would have said if he seems like you could have just talked to him into anything at one point. And somebody just got in his ear like, you know, it would be cool, K.D. a rig James tattoo and he just stood there like you're right and let's do it

and then he just did it and they were probably just sitting there giggling behind him about it you think that somebody talked him into the tattoo would you say that you don't believe that the Rick James tattoo Kevin Durant got it was his own decision? I don't think so no. I mean of course

his body he admitted to say yes but I don't think he came up with that idea on his own The other thing is he doesn't seem like a guy that would get like super duper hammered or anything, right? Because that would usually... No, he definitely doesn't. Yeah, that would usually have to be the case, right? Like, you would have to be...

Like, that's just a horrible decision that you made excessively inebriated. But he, I fear he was not drunk at all. I don't think he was drunk either. I think he was just trying to figure out what the next move to do with. You know, it feels like when you get into an argument... with your girl, with your wife, and you're just trying anything to fix it real quick. What if I say this?

What if I do this? What if I do that? Did it fix it the next day? For me, I don't feel comfortable when my wife is upset at me for a thing I've done. It took a long time for me to be able to just sit there and realize I just needed to let her thing to do. I was always trying to do some clever shit

to make it feel better, like some movie shim. And I think in this case, KB was just trying to make everything better real fast. And they're taking it. Speaking of it. I'm probably wrong. I'm probably wrong on all of this stuff. Who cares?

Hey, who cares? Who cares if you're wrong? I ain't here for the facts. I ain't here for the facts. You're very public about the wife and the kids and everything on Twitter. What does your wife get mad at you about? me about, I don't know, if I say something dumb or do something dumb. Say anything else.

I'm not that great at not saying stuff that I shouldn't say sometimes, so as usually. Does she care at all about anything that you've done on social media? No, you know what? After maybe, I think, some point last year, oh, you know what it was? We went to the book signing, so the rap year book had come out. and first time that her and I had gone to New York, that I had been in New York, so I asked her to come with me. And she was just, she was like, fine, I'll go with you, we'll go hang out, I've never been there either. And while we were there, we did a book signing.

And when we were pulling up to the book sign in the car, it was like several hundred people outside of the building waiting to get in. There's this big long line that we see as we're driving down the block. It's wrapped all the way around the building. I think that that was the moment when she saw everybody there. she's like, oh, you're not actually just, you know, been real cool with everything. Before then, I think to her, like, oh, he's just on the computer all day long. He's just digging around. You know what I'm saying?

Right, that there was no result, like, this is, there's no end result to this. You're just screwing around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she sees the line of people, and how much of your success with that do you think you would attribute to Twitter, honestly? For the book release, all of it, really. of it. Yeah, because I had a book that came out before then, this coloring book I did with this rapper named Bun B.

Yeah. And when that book came out, in my head, I was like, oh, if I just get Rolling Stone to write about it or if I can get L.A. Times and New York Times to write about it, they were going to sell a lot of copies. And we sold a decent amount of copies. But when I, when this book came out, we're selling more if I'm just going straight hand-to-hand with people on some like old school selling out the trunk. When it became a thing on Twitter, it was just like...

And still now you can't control it, right? Like, I mean, it's every day somebody's still, like, you did the thing totally organically. Like, would you give anybody tips on that? How you pulled it off? Yeah, you know, people, I get emails more often than I would have anticipated from, like, companies and shit asking, can you come talk to our employees about building a thing online? Or can you come show us this or talk about that? I have no idea.

what happened. We were just making some jokes on the internet and like dicking around. I don't know how you explain that to somebody else. You know what I'm saying? It's hard to go to a group of employees at a business and say, hey, just to dick around and put a bunch of jokes up on Twitter and the shit works out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the shit works out plan. Go be funny. Go be funny on Twitter and maybe people will like you and want to support you. Uh-huh. That's about it. Yeah.

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That's performasleep.com and code NBA. You broke down the celebrations, your bench celebrations, right? And you had all kinds. You had the flea the scene. You had videos of all of these. I would tell anybody to go to the ringer and read Shea's article on bench celebrations. What I want to ask you about is you've got the 13. You said, I believe your favorite was the Border Patrol, right?

The kind of the hold me back one on the sidelines? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, is that the one? You chronicled 13 different ones, you know, the Jubilee, the Ghost Kick, the towels for sale, all the different. I love towels for sale, by the way. It sounds so stupid when you say everything out loud. I realize how ridiculous all of this sounds. Imagine somebody's listening that didn't.

read that article and then what the hell are you talking about. I love it. Go ahead. The other one I love is ants on a picnic blanket. Ants on a picnic blanket. Just, you know, obviously the quick stomping. All right. Of all of those, what do you think in the moment, let's say, like you love Kauai Leonard, right?

Kauai Leonard crushes one on somebody and you happen to be on the bench, right? Now, you don't have time to necessarily think about it. Like your gut reaction is just going to be whatever happens. Which Ben's celebration do you think Shea Serrano would perform? I'm going to perform the Mosh Pit when you just start shoving and bumping. You would just start jumping up and shoving everybody. I'm just pushing everybody. All of my best basketball memories I could think of involved pushing somebody afterwards.

And so that's what I think I do. The first time I ever pushed my dad, we were watching the basketball game. and it was 2004. I never forget. I was in college at the time. He had come up to visit, him and my mom, he was trying to playoff, and the Spurs were playing the Lakers.

And this was the 0.4 game where Derek Fisher hits the shot, what point four seconds left to beat the Spurs in game five, right before that, a lot of people sort of have forgotten. The Spurs were down by one. I think it was like 72 to 73 or something, or 71 to 72 something ridiculous.

The really birds were down by one left, maybe. I don't know the exact time. But they threw the ball into Duncan, and you could tell they were supposed to run like this full screen for Genoblee, and it got snuffed out, and there was no backup plan. So Duncan just turns, and he's dribbling towards the top of the key, and he shoots this goofy fadeaway falling down jumper over Shaq. Shack is stretched all the way out.

Duncan is falling down, just throws the ball up. and swishes through. They're in San Antonio. The ball switches through. Everybody loses their fucking mind. And I'm watching on the couch, and I jump up, and my dad is to the left of me. And I'm screaming, and I just shoved him like as hard as I could. I was so overcome with the motion.

Just boom, I hit him. Just boom, shoved him right in his little tiny body. He's a little guy. He's like five, six, and he's got a round belly. So his balance ain't that great. So I, like, caught him at the perfect angle. And he goes crashing into the bookshelf. No.

And just falling down, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, this is, I'm going to fight my dad. Right now we're going to get into a fistfight. But he was so excited about the game. He just jumped up and, like, we're shoving back. So I think if I were to, I was on a bench and Kauai dunked it, super dunked it. I'm going to shove. And then you have also on the article, if people go check it out, the one underneath the mosh pit is the lonely mosh pit.

You have this unbelievable clip of Brandon Jennings, where, you have. he can't, you know, that's the hard part is that you got to have somebody to push. The worst is to like want to be jumping around pushing each other, but nobody's pushing back. Did your dad push you back, by the way? No, he didn't. He just jumped up and was screaming as well. And then Derek Fisher tore our heart out. The other thing I wondered when you were just telling that story, where'd you go to college?

I went to a little tiny school called Sam Houston State University. Sure. It was about an hour north of Houston. You like it? It was the only school I got into. Yeah, it was fine. I was like, I was really a poor student in high school. I barely graduated high school.

I think it was one of them situations where they needed Mexicans. They didn't have a lot of Mexicans at the time. So they didn't let me end. They're like, it's a great grumble, but come on. Come on. That's that ridiculous. For real. When I got there, at the time, the pop, the school was maybe 15 or 16,000 people.

and there were 20, 25, 30 Mexican's tops. It was crazy. It was like a super culture shock because I went from San Antonio. Excuse me. I went from San Antonio where I'm living on the south side of San Antonio where it's almost elementary middle high school, 90-something percent Hispanic. In my high school, the whole time I was there we had like eight black kids. Eight, which is unbelievable when I look back at it now.

So I get to college and it's like more. kids than I've ever seen, 15,000 people. And of those 15,000 people, a very, very, very small percentage of them are Hispanic. So I think that's what, I think that had a big part in me getting into that school. My grade, my grades are awful. You said like 25. Did you hang out with the other Mexican kids at Sam Houston State?

Oh, that 100%. It was like, we went to this, you go to like the orientation. Right. Before the school starts and you've seen all the other freshmen or whatever. and there were maybe four Mexicans there, and we just sort of all grouped up, like in prison. You just find your race. That's my gang now. And we're just watching, like, you watch my back.

I'll watch your back. All right. Last thing, Shay, tonight, you said the great moment is going to be if Russell Westbrook goes up against Kevin Durant at the rim. You have also said this is what you anticipate the most of the NBA season. Do you think you are mentally prepared? I know you're going to be doing a Facebook live thing for The Ringer. So this is going to be great. I'm going to be able to cue you up and see what you're thinking in real time.

Do you think you are mentally prepared for what's going to take place tonight? Probably going to pass out. If that happens, I will. Well, it'll be on Facebook Live, so at least I'll get to watch it. There you go. Shea, thanks for coming on, man. Enjoy tonight. All right, brother.

Thanks for listening to another edition of the NBA show. Hey, if you like what's going on with the show, do me a favor and go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Because frankly, the only people that ever go to iTunes to leave rating as reviews are people that don't like what you're doing. But I get a ton of great feedback from you on Twitter, social media, etc. So if you can, do me a favor, go to iTunes, give us a good rating and review. It will really help us out a lot.

Remember tonight at halftime of the Warriors Thunder game. You can catch say he's going to be part of a halftime show they're doing on the ringers Facebook page. It's going to be on Facebook live tonight, so make sure you don't miss that. Thanks again to Sling TV. It's finally basketball season. Are you watching the games at a Krusty Sports Bar crammed onto your friend's couch? You can do better.

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