The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 50: The Morey Effect, First-Time All-Stars, and the Warriors' Weakness

Episode Date: December 13, 2016

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss the foundation of footwork (6:00), the Daryl Morey effect on offense (10:00), James Harden's greatest skill (20:00), potential first-time All-Stars (25:00), Grizzlies-Warriors (35:00), and the highest-scoring game in NBA history (44:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Late Night TV just got darker. Deezis Nice and the Kid Mero, you may know them as the Bodega Boys, have landed their own late night TV show on Vicerland, the TV channel from Vice. It's called Deezis and Mero and it's weeknights at 11 p.m. This isn't a place where A-List celebrities are selling their new movie. There's no scripted jokes or a band. It's just two guys from the Bronx giving you their takes on culture, politics, sports, entertainment, and other subjects they don't really know anything about.

It's Deas and Mero on TV on Vicerland. every Monday through Thursday night at 11 p.m. Go to Vicerland.com to find your channel and check back for some free episodes. The brand is strong. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Varnan. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor. What's up, Kev?

Not a lot right now, Chris. What's going on with you? Well, we do have a big week in the NBA because on Thursday is the deadline for the collective bargaining agreement. And I guess, as I understand it, the deadline is for them to be able to opt out. When the NBA originally put together their CBA, it was through 2021, but there was a chance to opt out for the last four years. You've written about this collective bargaining agreement. There's a lot of people that are covering this saying that it's going to be close.

Obviously, there's not like a real deadline until July. And then the ultimate deadline is when you would have to miss something. But it seemed like until Carmelo Anthony's comments over the weekend, everybody was extremely optimistic that somebody could get hashed. Something could get hashed out. And that matters a lot, right? Just because six months early, yes, that would be a good sign. But beyond that, you know, we all love teams making moves. And we spend a lot of time on this podcast.

And NBA fans talk about, like, what could teams do? How could they make moves? And I don't know if teams not, if there was an uncertain future of what business is going to look like, I don't know if we would get nearly the amount of moves that we would in a normal year. What say you? Yeah, I mean, if there was a lockout, I would agree, Chris, that we'd probably get less moves if it, if the lockout went into the fall or the winter next year. But I don't, I really don't think that's going to happen.

I think Carmelo Anthony, if anything, maybe. what he was saying was trying just to put a little bit of public pressure on the negotiations. Because on Saturday night, hours after Carmelo said what he said, Tim Bond Temps from the Washington Post reported that sources on both sides of the table commented privately that they remained optimistic about a deal getting done. And since then, on Saturday, I think we've heard more positive comments from Adrian Wardenowski. And I get the same impression that people are still optimistic that a deal is going to get done by Thursday. And honestly, I don't wouldn't be worried about it at all.

Until Thursday comes and goes, I think there will be a deal. And honestly, I think if anything, Carmelo's comments were just last minute. They wanted to put pressure on the negotiations to get more out of it. So they're talking about it publicly to try to change that. But I think the deal will get done. And I wouldn't worry about it if you're an NBA fan at all. Here's my concern, right? Everybody loves using the trade machine.

Everybody loves talking about what could this team do? What could this team do? that if they didn't come to the deal early and they said, hey, we're still optimistic and really, we just have to get this thing done by July. It puts so many questions in the minds of people that are running these teams just like, what's the max contract going to be like and what's going to be the salary cap and this and that. And so that's why I'm kind of hoping it gets done because I think what you could find is a lot of teams less intrigued with making moves that they would normally make just because

of the uncertainty of what the money is actually going to be. I just want them, everybody's making a ton of money. I hope it all gets hammered out and then we can get to teams making moves, etc. No, I agree, Chris. And I think teams want to know that too beyond whatever they may already know. But having that clarity definitely allows them to make better moves during the season. And obviously it would add to more excitement during the summer. Let me ask you about a couple articles that you recently wrote.

I want to go back in time to you wrote a brief article on the Darryl Morey effect and this idea and you and you highlighted the nets as one of the teams that has drastically changed the way they play. But we are seeing it league wide with teams taking a lot more three-pointers than usual. It's interesting because you noted, you know, I think you used the nets. I went and looked up the three-point three-pointers attempted, right? the record for per game is 32.6, right? So a team took roughly 33-3s a game, and that was the 14-15 Rockets. Then last year's Warriors took 32 a game,

and then the Rockets last year took 31 a game, okay? This year, Kevin, Houston's leading the league, averaging, attempting 37-3s a game. Cleveland is second with 34 threes a game. Brooklyn, the team you highlighted, is third with 33 threes a game. I mean, the top three, if we just stop the tape right now, the top three attempt teams in the NBA would all be the top. That would be the list, the all-time list for the most attempted by a team.

Number one, two, and three ever would be this year's teams as it stands right now. How crazy is that? Yeah, it's insane, Chris. And I mean, that was kind of the, you know, the topic of the article. It wasn't to say that what the rockets are doing is necessarily the right way. What Mori Ball is emphasizing threes and layups and it deemphasizes the mid-range. It doesn't necessarily mean that's the right way to play. But it is interesting how, you know, you mentioned those teams.

They're just throwing up threes. The rockets have attempted, last I checked, 43% of. of their shots have been three point attempts. That is incredible. That's college level rates that we're seeing from them. And I just wonder, when does it stop? How does it stop? Or is this just kind of, will this be a trend?

Will more teams continue doing this or not? Because, you know, you look at a team like the Toronto Raptors or they don't attempt nearly as many three-pointers as other teams in the league. and they have an equally incredible offensive rating as the Warriors do. So you don't need to shoot threes to have a great offense. I think that's kind of a little bit of a misconception today with all the talk about three-pointers. But it's interesting to me that so many teams are really doing it at such a fast rate. I'm shocked at the Cleveland one.

That's what I was shocked by. Okay, so if you want to tell me Brooklyn, Brooklyn's installing a new system that got a new coach. stands to reason that they might be doing something radically different than what they've done in the past. Houston, we know, is kind of established themselves as that kind of team. And Golden States got, you know, three of the most, maybe the three best, the three-point shooters in the world. Okay. So all of those stand to reason. The Cleveland, Cleveland right now would have, as it stands, would be the highest attempts in threes a game in NBA history if it were not for the Rockets.

and I don't know I don't think of Cleveland and go Yeah they take a million threes But like they're second in the league Yeah You're right Chris And that was kind of a little bit surprising to me When I first compiled the data

Because if you look at Threes plus layups So we're talking about The percentage of shots That are attempted from the restricted area Or behind the three point line The Rockets take nearly 80% of their shots from one of those two areas.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are third in the league at 68%. And just to go through the top five, it's Houston, Brooklyn, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Boston, and then Golden State is sixth if we're looking at threes and layups. And Cleveland being there is a little bit of a surprise because I think a lot of people see them as just isolation players with Kyrie and LeBron, but that isn't necessarily the case. they get to the rim a lot but they're also shooting a lot of threes as a result of that room penetration

so they do it a little bit differently than Houston does but they are still shooting at just an incredible rate when I remember reading articles throughout the years about the spurs and how good they were defensively and people saying it's it's you know just reading that it's not

all that complicated they were consistently good at guarding the three pointer and they were consistently good at guarding the rim So if you just force teams, right? If you can force teams to shoot lower percentages than they normally do from those two areas, you're going to be able to have an outstanding defense and win a ton of games. Yeah, you're right.

And I think that's definitely where this offense comes from as a result of avoiding that mid-range shot. Okay, so now we change that up and we say, okay, well, that's what you want to force teams to do. And the mid-range game is not nearly as prevalent. as it used to be. But then you write this article this morning, and it highlights D'Mar D'Rosen, who's like this mid-range king. He's averaging 28 points a game. The effective field goal percentage is great.

And then you went and talked to different people that work with players, whether it's the Greek freak or it's Derozen or Embed, whoever. And you talk to them about the importance of footwork and why that makes guys such better scores. What were the most interesting things you learned when you were trying to? trying to reach out and try to learn about how NBA players practice and learn footwork in order to make themselves better. What's really interesting, Chris, is just how much guys like talking about this. I feel like almost everybody I spoke to, whether it was a player, a coach, or a trainer or whoever,

they're really into talking about footwork. And I think, I think Redick, JJ Redick said it best where he says it's because footwork is the foundation of everything you do in the NBA. and it's true, right? I mean, we talk a lot about, you know, like Kobe Bryant, you know, we think about him floating in the air. We think about him throwing down dunks. We think about these big, incredible moments. When we think about Janus Ante Dacumpo, we're thinking about how fast he is and how quickly he gets to the basket and how quickly he elevates to dunk. But we don't necessarily think about the subtleties, the little minor details that occur with his feet to get to that point.

We don't think about the moves and the time DeMar Rosen puts in to kind of resemble Kobe Bryant from mid-range. And Kobe is Demar DeRosan's idol. He grew up, grew up in Compton. So he grew up watching Kobe. And that's the player he tries to emulate. And it's just interesting just how much these guys are into talking about the little things they do to get to that level so they can play at the highest of levels on the court. When you also had quotes, I think it was it Durant that said, you know, a guy. Guys notice other guys footwork and their footwork and their ability to like get themselves into position to score.

And so that's when you really know when another elite player is going, golly, that guy's footwork's amazing. Yeah, the context of that quote from Durant is he just asked simply something along the lines of, so you've seen what DeMarre's doing right now? He's like, yep, what do you think? He probably has the best footwork I've seen in a long time. That was the first thing Durant said in response to DeVroes. And it's true because he does. The things Demar de Rosen does on the court to get open for mid-range is extraordinary, really. I mean, he has the Kobe half spin.

He has the pump fake and step through, and he uses these on a nightly basis. And look, I know he's not a Kobe Bryant level player, but it's cool to see kind of what M.J. did pass to Kobe. And now DeMar de Rosen is really doing it at the highest of levels this season in the NBA. My favorite quote was Janus talking about his Euro step and he said, it's simple. If the guy is in front of you, you go the other way. If he is not in front of you, you go straight. That honestly might be the worst description of the Euro step ever.

I know. It couldn't be a more plain Jane quote description of the Euro step than anything else I could have imagined. But in a way, in a way, he's right. It is that simple. It makes you feel. I was watching a video. It is that simple, though. I was watching a video.

I was watching a video of Manu Genoblee talking about the Euro step. And he said something along the lines of, you know, what happens when a guy is trying to take a charge? He can't move. He's stiff. So this is a move that gets you around that guy. It's just a long lateral step. That's what he called it. And I think that's kind of what Anta D'Compo is getting at.

It's just simply to get around a guy. And one of the trainers I talked to, Chris Farr, the trainer for DeMar de Rose, and he put it like this. You would rather these guys just pull up and take a wide open jump shot. But the reason why these moves are necessary is because defenses obviously take those away. They're going to take away the easy shot. So these moves are a necessity in order to get open in order to take shots. And we see that at all levels, whether it's the Eurostep for layups or dunks in Janice's case,

or whether it's Demar de Rosen, doing these crazy moves from mid-range to get open, or it's Boris Diaw, driving to the lane from three-point range, or if it's JJ Redick getting open behind the line. These guys need little moves that are necessary to get open because the defense is taking away the easy shot. Well, and the fascinating thing is that they think, they practice it so much, it just becomes second nature to the point where the Greek freaks giving you that kind of a comment. It's easy.

If the guy stayed in front of you, just don't go right at him, right? But obviously, this is something that's been finally tuned. Yeah, you're right. And that was kind of one of the things Boris Diai got at at one point. He kind of said, you know, it becomes so automatic because you've done it for so long that there will be times you do the move when you don't need to do the move. It's about, I think, kind of, it's about developing the feel and the natural understanding of when and how you need to do the move. And Drew Hanlon, who trains tons of players across the league, including Joe L.M.B., Zach Levine, a guy like him, he described it like this.

The first step is understanding how to move. The second step is moving, walking through the move for the player. And the third step is developing the feel. And that's the hardest step because it requires live reps. It requires years of experience. And that can be the hardest thing to get down. And he talked about Jason Tatum, who was a freshman at Duke, training him, learning the half spin.

And the feel was the hardest thing to get down. And then once he got it, it was automatic for him. And we're seeing that early this season with Duke. He's unleashed the half spin a couple times. And that's on the article on the ringer.com that you can check out. But yeah, it's really about developing the feel, I'd say, more than anything else. I'll tell you this. In that article, you've got the videos posted of all these different guys.

If you go there, the Tatum move, I mean, that looks exactly like Dirk. It really does. Like, that's the Dirk move, which is, it's going to be unstoppable if he perfects that thing. Yeah, I mean, and that's the exciting thing is, you know, it's not just the NBA players. It's college guys, too, where you can see this work getting put in. And a guy like Tatum, you know, watching him, you know, high school clips or, you know, international clips, whatever it may have been, the clearer thing about him is just how smooth Jason Tatum is, the way he moves with and without the ball, especially from mid-range. So a guy like

Drew Hanlon, who's helped many players throughout his career, getting a guy like Tatum, that's somebody who I wonder in five years and 10 years, how many moves will Jason Tatum have as a go-to score? And so if I'm scouting Tatum, that's what I look at, just how smooth he is and how much potential he has if he has the work ethic to put in the time and the effort takes it takes to build on these moves that he has he's going to be one of those guys in the mix for being the number one pick or top five pick for sure I think he'll be I think he'll be in the mix Chris look I think this year in the draft it's going to depend a lot on who has the pick and perhaps their preferences but I think Taiton will at least be in the mix and in the

conversation one of the things when you think about how these guys score the de Rosen thing is super fascinating and then hard to always comes up. Amazing score that isn't necessarily just crossing guys over. And when I was reading this whole thing about footwork, I went back and looked, there was this article that Danny Chow wrote on the ringer earlier this year, which, and it was just, I think it was part of a king of a court,

but he went back and he talked to one of the sports science guys. It was from this place called P3 Applied Sports Science. And I went and pulled the quote, you know, because you try to figure out, okay, why are these guys so good at doing what they do? And like you mentioned with the Rosen, you know, Durant, the first thing he mentions is his footwork. Like, how does he score so much, even though he doesn't shoot a bunch of threes or whatever? And the footwork comes up.

And the same thing goes with Hardin. Obviously, he gets to the line a lot, but he's got all this craftiness to him. And I remember this quote, and I went and pulled it back. Danny Chow talked to this guy, Marcus Elliott, from P3 Applied Sports Science. and that Hardin has these peculiar gifts. This was this quote. Hardin is barely average in almost every metric we looked at related to athleticism except for deceleration metrics.

And in those, he's one of the best athletes we've ever measured in any sport, in soccer, football, or basketball. Yep, Hardin is world class at slowing down. which like that. I mean, I've told a bunch of people about that after reading that. It's a crazy thing, right? They run you through all this battery of tests. I mean, we watch him with our own eyes.

And we go, this guy is not like cramming on people. He's not some kind of elite level athlete to just look at him. But you see him out on the court and he's devastating offensively. And like that that was one of the explanations. He is one of the, he is like in the top 1%. He is world class. at decelerating, which I have never heard of that in my life. Yeah, and I think that's kind of, in some ways with Harden, it's a mixture of footwork, and

it's a mixture of pace, and that's something a couple of the guys I talked to kind of pointed out. It's not just going 100 miles per hour. It's being able to do it at different speeds and changing phrasing and pace. And I thought Drew Hanlon kind of said that with one of his quotes. He said your ability to control your body, utilize different footwork patterns is a huge key to success. And what he's getting at is you need to understand your body, be able to control your body and do different things. And that's what Hardin does, obviously, as you just said, at the highest of levels.

We see that when he drives at the room especially. I love that his elite metric is his ability to stop faster than you do. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. he can just stop faster than everybody and so everybody just flies on past him right all right

so yeah I mean it's it's funny when you think about that though Chris that like every every place of basketball where that helps him and and I think knowing having that knowledge and watching him it becomes a little bit more interesting observing the game of basketball well it also just feels like that's something

you can't practice you know what I mean right it's kind of like it's kind of like listen And you can go run 100 million sprints. You can get the shoes that have the little apparatus on the toes that we all had when we were in junior high and high school to try to increase a vertical leap. It was ridiculous things. But you're never going to be able to run and jump like Russell Westbrook.

It's just not happening. And the same kind of goes with the hardened thing. But I have just, he is so awkward. And then I love that so much that his elite skill is literally the most awkward thing. I've ever heard of, that he is just better at deceleration than anyone on the planet. But it's a good explanation. As to why, right? Why is he, how can he do all this?

It's not as simple as all the crafty moves and all this other stuff. All right, Kevin, we're going to talk about some All-Star stuff. But first, a word from our sponsors were brought to you by Tune In, where the Ringer podcast network is now available. And why you can listen to every episode on the Tune In radio app for free. Tune-in is giving listeners 20% off its premium subscription for a limited time. You can catch all the home calls of your favorite sports teams at home or on the road. That's every play, every team, every game.

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So what this means is voting is right around the corner for the All-Star game. And so what I wanted to talk about is, who do you think is going to make their first All-Star team? This is really hard because there are so many guys that are Elder States, that, and you have the fan vote, right? You have the fan vote thing going on, so those are going to take up spots. And then you have guys that are just consistent all-stars year after year. It's hard to break in and make an all-star game.

And I'll tell you, Kev, I couldn't, you know, we were kind of chatting about this and who we think could make all-star teams for the first time. I think we may just see two, seriously. Like, I've got Kemba and Janus. I think Kimball Walker will make it. I think Janice Anta Tocompo will make it. But I don't think any first time, anybody's going to be making it for their first time that's going to get voted in. And then you're talking about reserves.

And just looking at this, you know, I think it speaks to, like the league is just loaded. There are going to be some awesome players that aren't going to be getting all-star spots this year. Yeah. And I think the two guys who listed are the ones that definitely have the strongest case with Ata-Dicompo. You look at his numbers. he's averaging 22, 9, 6, 2, and 2. In the history of the league, ever since blocks and steals were recorded, the only guys to ever, to ever average 20 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals are Larry Bird,

Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen. So Yannas is doing what they did so far this season. And on top of that, he's averaging two blocks per game, which those guys didn't do in their seasons. So what he's doing is unbelievable. And then Kemba Walker, Kemba Walker is by far, by far, one of the best point guards in the East this year. He's super efficient in the half court, super efficient in transition. He's just ridiculous in the pick and roll. I think that's probably one of my favorite things about watching Charlotte is just Kemper Walker picker rules.

I wish they ran it every time they went up the floor. But Kemper Walker and Janus, those two are the easy picks. But beyond that, Chris, I'm right there with you. It's hard to find guys Maybe one of the big men in the east How about Chris Staps or Hassan White's side? I think Porzingis could But you think Mello gets voted

Do you think it's going to be Mello and Wade To get voted in? I think that could probably happen I think that could I mean the biggest name The younger guys out Yeah I mean the biggest names get in And what's crazy

I mean that's the thing with Kemper Walker too Is Kemper Walker is not a big name so will he get the votes that are required to get in or I think the coaches would put him in in though no no no no like a guy like Walker has to get the he's not getting voted in right I mean the guys that's going to get the coach big name guys no matter what and that's why I'm saying there's there's guys having better seasons than a waiter Carmelo but we're talking these guys are yeah huge household name stars right so they're just going to get the votes I think poor Zingis could get in. I think

he could. At the same time though, I think I think if he does get in, do you think it would come from the fan vote? Because New York, Nick's huge fan base worldwide, that could be enough to put him in. But at the same time, maybe the coaches look at his numbers as a rim

protector. He's one of the best room protectors in the league this year, at least statistically, allowing opponents to shoot under 40% near the rim. Obviously, averaging 20 points per game. He's shooting the a lot of a three-pointer. Maybe coaches would put him in, too. I think he has a case. I mean, because who is the other big man lock? It's probably, it's probably Kevin Love. And there's

usually another room protector that they put into the game, too. Like last year, it was Andre Drummond. I think Porzingis would get the edge over a white side, even though you could make the argument for him, too. It's close. I think Porzingis would have to be one of the guys that they add. And I certainly think he can be an all-star, but he would have to be one of the guys that they add to the team. do not think he would get voted in. I mean, I think that, you know, listen, we're on an NBA podcast. It stands to reason that people who are listening to this are huge NBA fans. But I do think we can overstate sometimes how famous a guy is.

And that's what that comes down to is how famous a guy is. And Chris S. Porzingis is a huge name amongst basketball fans. Carmelo Anthony is a huge name in all of sports. He just is. He's super famous, man. And I get it. helps playing in New York and Porzingis might get a lot of votes but he won't get more votes than Carmelo.

I mean, it's, you know, and the same thing goes with Wade, right? He's just super famous and it comes down to a popularity contest when you're talking about all-star votes. Yeah, I agree, Chris. And I don't want to like open up a can of worms hair, but do you think, do you think the all-star voting process should be completely changed or the whole, the whole, I think the whole thing should be torn up, to be honest with you. I think, first of all, the game isn't like in baseball where it actually decides.

home field advantage or anything. So it really doesn't have any meaning. It's still just a glorified exhibition game. So why not make it so teams don't necessarily have to play in their respective conferences? That way we would clearly get the best players. And maybe we could have like an all-time coach of the team where they draft their players onto each side. I think that could be really, really cool compared to just having the fan vote, the most

popular players and then have them play in their respective conferences. I just think the game could be way better than it is. That's just for the starter. Well, I mean, how do you make it that honestly like that much better without it mattering? I mean, that was the whole gist. And I know it's goofy as hell with what baseball did, but that was their gist. Like, okay, we just got to make this thing matter, right?

And so then, and I think it's very, very difficult to make any kind of all-star scenario matter without putting something at stake besides money. You know, I mean, like so... Yeah, and that's the difficulty because what baseball does, I'm not a real big fan of. It is kind of silly when you think that an All-Star game would determine the biggest series in the sport. It's just kind of goofy, I think.

I'm not saying basketball should do that, but I just think there's little things that they could do just to spice it up, make it a change. It's just for the sake of changing it, really. There's no other reason behind me saying this other than just to spice it up. I think being able to draft teams would be cool. I was trying to find one in the Western Conference, and I didn't know if I'd be able to get there if there would be a spot for anybody for the first time. But I think maybe Hayward, maybe Gordon Hayward would be the one, right?

Because he's on a good team. I really don't know how many the Warriors are going to get. I don't know if they're going to get all four guys. I'd suspect if they don't, you're either talking about Clay or Draymond, not getting in. And then you've got all these like Carl Towns and Anthony Davis.

So there might be a spot that are on bad teams. So there might be a spot for some of these guys that are on winning teams. And I wonder, I mean, you think Hayward missed too much time? I mean, he's the best guy on that Utah team. Yeah, I mean, Hayward missed, what, three games? And I think you can make the case for any of those Utah guys, Chris, Hayward, Rudy Gobert, George Hill, any of those three, that you can make a case for them. And that's kind of my argument in favor of drafting the teams for the All-Star team, because the West is more loaded than the East in terms of top-end talent.

So guys like C.J. McCollum or DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Go-Bare are going to, potentially. potentially miss the All-Star game when really you can make the argument that they should be in they should be one of the top X amount of guys that make the roster and if you drafted the teams you can get those guys into the game at the same time you wouldn't want it to just be the Western Conference All-Star game but but it would be disappointing if a guy like Rudy Gobert didn't make the make it because he's been an elite rim protector an elite rebounder an elite finisher near the rim he's maybe one of the best big men in the the game, especially one of the best pure centers.

And I think at least one of those guys might get shorted out. Yeah, well, it's crazy because, first let me say this. Hayward missed less time than I thought he did, only missing a couple of games. Six games, I think. That plays in his favor. He's also averaging 23 points a game. What's wild is two of the top three scorers in the NBA are on teams with losing records, and that's Anthony Davis and DeMarcus cousins.

How about that? Those guys are number two and number three. in points per game right now. They're incredible, man. They're just having crazy, crazy years. It's just a shame it's in losing situations. Yeah. So, yeah, I would say probably Hayward would have a chance in the West.

I was trying to think, is there anybody else in the West? Because you mentioned McCallum and you mentioned a couple of the other guys, but I just, in terms of making a debut, I mean, I think we kind of thought maybe Towns would be there. I don't know if he's going to get there. The numbers right now, is a good season, but it's not ridiculous. He's averaging a tick under 22 points a game and about 11 boards, which is out, I mean, it's really, really good. But the team is six and 18, you know, kind of feel like them leaving him out would not be a, that would not be a huge deal. He would not be a massive snub.

Not like Anthony Davis, whose team is no good, but he's averaging, damn, man. Anthony Davis is averaging 30.6 points, 11 rebounds and almost three blocks a game. Yeah, I think that speaks to the difference between the east and the west, Chris, because I mean, we're talking about Porzingis as a maybe in the east, but Towns probably isn't really in the conversation in the West, even though they're putting up similar numbers. And now, I know you can look beyond the numbers and say Porzingis has been much better defensively than, um, Porzingis has been much better defensively than Towns has. Um, but just looking strictly at the numbers are fairly similar, and yet the conversation is drastically different. between them. Should I bring up that at the beginning of the season during the predictions that everybody was on Carl Towns Jock

but Anthony Davis was still the best young player in the NBA, should I say I said that or should I just leave that out? I mean, you can say that, Chris, you know, and you're right. You're not wrong about that. But I can't, I can only speak from myself, but I think with a lot of people, it was just the fact that Anthony Davis has already established and as a super stud.

And we're always obsessed with the potential of the new, the new shiny new toy, the, you know, the next big thing, you know, and whatever, whatever field of entertainment it is.

And this year in basketball, I think that was Carl Anthony Towns. And that's why, that's why there's so much obsession over him compared to Davis, who is already the established, incredible player. Hey, Kevin,

one of the big stories over the course of the, last week was also, and I don't know if you saw this, but the Memphis Grizzlies kicked the crap out of the Golden State Warriors. Oh, yeah. That was fun. Were you aware of that? Hey, in all seriousness. I know you're happy about that, Chris.

In all seriousness, I do wonder, listen, when you see something like that happen, and I get they were missing some guys, Grizzlies were missing guys, whatever, do you think that there was anything about? that particular game and matchup that showed how you can give Golden State a problem. Because I will just tell you, just from my perspective, and then being at that arena that night and seeing it, it felt to me like the Grizzlies had defenders who were just going to blow up every screen that Golden State set.

And I do wonder, again, they're so talented that the template is just going to be a moving target in terms of how they'll adjust and be able to figure out another way to beat you because they're so awesome. But at least for one night that I do wonder if other teams would be able to pull it off, that if you've got defenders that are willing to go over everything and really blow up those screens and not let them impede you defensively, that you can give Golden State problems. What do you think?

Yeah, I think that's an interesting point, Chris. I think we might have talked about this on an earlier podcast. But with the Milwaukee Bucks, I think you're kind of getting at that point just how long the bucks are and how they've given Golden State trouble with their ability to switch and just fight through screens. And they're so long, it's easy for them to contest shots. I think that's definitely the formula. I think you need length. I think you need athleticism to do that. And yeah, the Grizzlies, Grizzlies had a hell of a night on the defensive end of the ball that night.

what they're doing, even besides the win against Golden State, what they're doing without Mike Conley. It's just unbelievable. Guys are stepping up. Marcus Sol is just having an absolutely absurd season. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable to see Gissel at 31 years old, I think, just elevate his game all of a sudden.

All of a sudden be able to shoot threes at a near league high rate for centers. It's remarkable, really. And I think they have a nice little core going on right there. How much are you buying into Houston? Houston's now, you know, in the fourth spot in the Western Conference. They're 18 and 7. They're 9 and 1 in their last 10 games. Obviously the Dan Tony thing is working.

We talked earlier about how many threes they're shooting a game. Hardin has been just otherworldly. How much are you buying into Houston as a Western Conference contender? By contender, do you mean like finals contender? Or do you mean contender as in like, Phil push the Warriors to five games, six games. It's all relative, right? So I think what we're looking at is when we're talking about a tender,

a Western Conference final series that could push Golden State to the brink. You know, at least give them the fight of their lives. Listen, I know that they won 73 games last year and then, you know, and they've added to ramp, but like Oklahoma City was up on them. They had them dead to rights. And so it's not totally out of the realm of possibility that somebody could, put up a big fight with them come later in the year. And we know how, you know, every team is one major injury away from changing the

landscape completely. That being said, if I told you that Houston could be a Western Conference Finals team that can really put up a fight, would you buy into that? Oh, totally. I would totally buy into it. I think Houston, I like what they have. Obviously, they're not very good defensively. pretty sure they have a bottom 10 maybe they're on the on the bubble bottom 10 defense um but their

offense is just ridiculous and with james hard and they can beat you in so many so many with so many different guys because they have such good shootings surrounded him with ryan anderson with eric gordon who's just been lights out shooting the three that so far this season and then they're getting contributions from other guys like sam decker and neney um montres harrell another young players giving them good minutes at the back of their bench and Clint compella has really elevated his game on both ends of the floor him and James Harden pickerel the James Harden click roll the James Hardin clinton pick and roll is like the new DeAndre Jordan with Chris Paul it's Lob City South they just have a

lot of different pieces to surround James Harden and make them tick it just a ridiculous level on offense and defensively yeah they're weak but that team can really outscore you and I think if they can could they could definitely i think contend for the west of conference finals and the underrated factor with them with all the young talent they have they have assets they're a team that i think i'm not saying that they will but they at least have pieces that could theoretically be used in trades to add another young player they have a really nice roster were you surprised they brought back mona unis um not really i thought for the price it was fine um not really so i think he could be a nice

piece. And I can see why he wanted to sign with the net so he had have an elevated role because there will be less minutes available with Houston, though. Let me get to some quick hits from around the league and get your opinion on these. All right. John Legend, as we mentioned earlier, is the halftime gig for the All-Star game. That was the big announcement by the All-Star game yesterday. I remember when they announced it last year and everybody was like, what the hell Sting? Like, it just seemed out of place, right? To have Sting doing the All-Sty game. John Legend did not get that kind of response, but what do you think on John Legend?

Here's what I worry about, Kev. You know, John Legend feels like what's playing in a nice restaurant if I go to eat, right? Like you're kind of like, you're eating a steak and it's like, oh, all of you, right? It's like playing in the background or something. I don't know if it's exactly, I don't know. I don't feel like it's halftime entertainment necessarily. Where are you at on John Legend? Man, I'm always perplexed by the choices they make for the halftime shows.

I think what the NFL did, signing up, Lady Gaga, was the right choice. But with John Legend, I like John Legend a lot. I think his album with The Roots Wake Up is awesome. I love that album. Definitely one of my favorite albums of this decade so far. But yeah, I just don't love it for the NBA halftime show. I want to get excited. and I don't know if John Legend puts me in that right mood for a basketball game.

But he's an incredible singer, so I guess I can't hate on that. You're a John Legend fan, though. You love John Legend. No, no, I'm not a John Legend fan, but he's, I respect what he does. You know what I mean? I think he puts out a lot of great music, and he's a tremendous singer. And like I said, his album with the roots, wake up. That's an album I think everybody should listen to.

All right. Look, I had no idea you were a John Legend fan. LeBron was named the sports person of the year by Sports Illustrated, by the way. You may have noticed last night. Jay Z introduced him and then took a little dig at Phil Jackson and the posse comments. So that was one of the stories. I'm not even going to talk about that story specifically, but I am going to ask you this. Kevin O'Connor, you get a massive honor like that.

I mean, it is super cool to have Jay Z introducing you to give you the honor. If you got an honor like LeBron did last night, like some big award that all the award, you know, everybody's there. who would you want to be the guy that stood up there, talked glowingly about you and presented you your own? And this could be anybody, anybody in the world. Anybody, anybody in the world? Um, oh, man, you're always putting me on the spot with these questions, Chris. Who are you like a massive? How about, who are you a massive fame?

How about LeBron? How about LeBron? I want LeBron to introduce me. I think that would be pretty sweet. Say LeBron James introduced me. I think that would be pretty cool. Who would you say is your... Or Michael Jordan.

Who would you say is your favorite, like, musician? If you, if they came in concert, you would not miss it. No way. Okay, so my favorite contemporary bands and my favorite all-time bands, all-time, it's probably Pink Floyd and Contemporary, it's Muse. I've seen Muse, I think, four times when they always put it. on a tremendous show. And Pink Floyd, I've seen Roger Waters on his The Wall tour and David Gilmore when he

came around last year. So I'm a big Pink Floyd Muse fan. Jimmy Hendrix is really sweet too. Tame Impala. They're another great band. Silversome pickups. A lot of good music out there, man. Lots of good music, Chris.

How about you? Who's your favorite? Yeah, but the guy from Muse would be like super weird. Like you would not want him introducing you. Yeah, I wouldn't, that's why I was like, you know, he came to mind. I was like, hmm, Matt Bellamy from Muse would be really cool. But I was like, it wouldn't make any sense at all. So not Matt Bellamy.

Right. I guess I guess it feels like for whatever, the Jay-Z LeBron thing made sense. Because you could certainly foresee LeBron driving to the office listening to Jay-Z or having it in his headphones before a game. Whereas I don't know if the Muse thing necessarily works with you, Kiv. I don't know. I don't know. If there are any NBA players who may listen to Muse, definitely tweet me and Chris

and let me know because I'm always down to talk music or anybody who's listening to the podcast. If you want to talk music, tweet us. All right. Fair enough. Okay. Speaking of that with the Sports Illustrated, do you buy any magazines or do you have a subscription to any magazines?

I used to have a subscription to Sports Illustrated. Like ever since I was like a kid, I had Sports Illustrated for kids, then Sports Illustrated. And I have a subscription to ESPN Insider. So I get ESB in the magazine. But most of the reading I do nowadays is online and, you know, occasionally picking up a newspaper. But most of it's online now, Chris. So outside of the ESPN of the magazine. that gets sent to the house, it gets sent to mine too, right?

It comes with insider. That's the only magazine you get at your house for you. Yeah. Yep. Do you buy any... Do you buy any at the grocery store? Not usually now. No.

Kevin O'Connor hates magazines. All right. Tim Duncan got a huge tattoo on his back. Do you see it? Yeah, it reminded me a Westworld. Do you have any tattoos? No, I don't. What would you get if you got one?

You know, I've thought a lot about this, like, you know, over the last 10 years or so. Like, it would be cool to get a tattoo, but I just, there's nothing that's ever come to mind, Chris, that I know for a fact that I would want on my body for the rest of my life. So there's at this time, at this time in my life, there's really nothing that I would. would want. But I think, I think, you know, what Tim Duncan got and tattoos in general are cool. And, you know, I say that there's nothing I would want on my body for the rest of my life. But I think, I think the cool thing about that too is of, is there reminders of who you were and how it's led to who you've become in life. And for Tim Duncan, he's a machine. So it's, it's a really cool tattoo for him. I think you should, I think you should get like the ice cream cone on your face like Gucci

Maine. I think that was just cool. I mean, ice cream is pretty good stuff, man. Can't blame anybody for getting an ice cream. Of course that's your reaction. I do like ice cream. You nerd. What kind of nerd are you, get it? I do like ice cream.

All right. It's true, though, man. Ice cream's good stuff. Who doesn't like ice cream? Two more things real quick. Are you a soft? serve or hard serve ice cream guy, Chris. Both.

Either one. I love ice cream. Exactly. Because you can't go wrong with ice cream. Yeah, but on it, all right, let me just take a quick time out and briefly explain that the ice cream cone on Gucci Main's face is not an homage to the actual food, okay? It's not because, oh, if you see his dad, dude, you're like, oh, Gucci, Maine, he loves ice cream. It's how great? Like, what are you talking about?

All right. If you could go to one NBA game, Kevin, I'm going to tell you, you can go to any NBA game the rest of the regular season. Which one would you go to? So I'm going to Warriors, Cavaliers, in Oracle Arena. That's where I'd want to be. I would have said Durant at Oklahoma City. Hmm, that's a good one too. I'd want to be in that arena, you know.

How much do you think he's going to get booed? Do you think he'll get booed? I think he will. You ever been there? No, I haven't. It's a different place, man. That's why I don't know how they're going to react. I've been there a couple different times and very, very family friendly, right?

Like, I mean, the people there in Oklahoma City are, the nicest people. They really are. And you walk in the arena and it's just so different than ever. They had like a prayer before the game. And it's very family, family friendly and like there's a lot of people there with their kids. And all the kids

have Durant and Westbrook jerseys. And it's just it feels like a very kind place. It's a lot different than a lot of sporting venues that I've been in. And so it's hard for me to imagine them like being vitriol.

towards a Durant return, but I'd love to just witness it and see what happens. It's going to be very, it's not going to be like, you know, it ain't going to be like you're going back to Philly. Let's just say that or something, right? It's not going to be. Yeah, that's true.

You know, horrible. All right, and the last thing is this. No, that's a good point. Last thing is this, I want to give a tip to everybody. I saw the Detroit Pistons tweet this out earlier today, and people, like, they tweeted out the video, and I was unaware of this. in 1983 on this day in 1983 the highest scoring NBA game ever was played do you know that

it was the Pistons no I didn't and the Denver Nuggets take a guess at the number of points that was scored by the winner in the highest scoring game ever I'm glad you haven't seen this I would have gotten this wrong by the way huh um something like how many overtimes was it? Can I ask that? It was three overtimes. And this is the highest scoring combined total. So I don't know what the number is.

I don't know if anybody's ever score more than this in a game by themselves. But it was the highest scoring game total, right? Like both teams combined. Something like high 170s, like 179 or something like that. That's pretty good. It was 186 to 187. 84. Whoa.

Wow. How about this? It was tied. It was tied at 145 at the end of the game. Like that seems like it would be possible to be tied at 145. Like a Rockets Warriors game or something. That does seem possible. But 186 to, I mean, good grief, man.

They both scored like 40-something points in the overtimes. And the damnedest thing, I would tell everybody, like, they have interviews with it. And they have like this, I don't know, it's like a vignette movie. It's worth a feature. It's worth checking out. The craziest thing is, Kevin, they ain't even shooting threes. Like, they don't, they're not shooting threes in the game. It was 186 to 184 on just a bunch of two-pointers, at least what it appears to be.

Was it like all layups? I mean, just, yeah. Just getting to the basket. Well, and they play mid-range. You know, they play mid-range, too. And the other, the other craziest thing about it, it was the freaking bad boy pistons. of all the teams in history that you would think would play in the highest scoring game, would you have expected that it's the bad boy piston?

Do you want to talk about wrecking your freaking season stats forever? Have a game where you gave up 184 points. That's crazy. Was Isaiah Thomas this particular game, you said 1983? Yes, 1983. On this day in 1983. So what's the day? So, what's the day?

12th. Isaiah Thomas was really young at that point. Oh, yeah. I just pulled up the box score just now. Okay, Isaiah scored 47 points in 52 minutes. John Long, 41 and 46 minutes. That's crazy. Two guys over 40 points on one team.

Anyway, the Pistons put it out on their Twitter feed today. So if you're a big NBA fan, I tell you go, go check out the little vignette they did on the highest scoring NBA game that's ever been played, which happened on this day in 19. Kevin, enjoy the rest of the week. I'll catch up with you next week, brother. You too, Chris. Go get you some ice cream. I will do.

Thanks for listening to another edition of the Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, head over to iTunes, give us a rating and review, and we will talk to you on Thursday.