The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 51: Ringing in the New CBA With Tim Bontemps

Episode Date: December 15, 2016

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by The Washington Post's Tim Bontemps to discuss who gets credit for the new CBA (5:00), the details on designated veteran player contracts (12:00), the new max contract (19:00), the addition of two extra roster spots (30:00), the unchanged one-and-done rule (39:00), and Chris Paul and LeBron's final max contracts (42:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's show is brought to you by Capital One's Credit Wise app. Capital One created the Credit Wise app. You can check your credit score anytime you want right in the app. It's free to everyone, so download Credit Wise today. Availability depends on presence of credit history from TransUnion. Credit Wise is offered by Capital One Bank USANA. N.A.N.A. Welcome to the Winger NBA show. I'm Chris Varnan. Join me today from The Washington Post is Tim Bontems. Timmy. What up, Verdo? Hey, man. So big news came out last night. We're going to try to set this up somewhat. The big news in the NBA is that a collective bargaining agreement was reached between the players association and the league. And we're going to try to set this up as somewhat of a CBA for dummies going through major points that have been reported. You did an outstanding job reporting for the Washington Post, Adrian Wardenowski with Yahoo, Mark Stein, with ESPN, David Aldrich. And I kind of like from NBA.com, I've kind of pieced it all together.

together, different facts about this new CBA. And we'll just kind of go through it and then talk about what it means. Good by you? Sounds great. Sounds great, buddy. Let's do it. Okay, first things first. What level of credit should Adam Silver and Michelle Roberts get for getting this all done?

Should either get more credit than the other? One over the other. I think it's just a matter of, you know, look, the league is a washing cash right now. I mean, everybody, everybody's doing great. There's, you know, everybody's making a ton of money. So since the last lockout in 2011, the sour cap has gone up almost by double by next season. So franchise violations through the former 13 teams worth a billion or more. And that's societal, giving all the momentum both on and off the court that the league has right now,

for them to risk it when everybody's making a ton of money. Hello said he was skeptical of a deal getting done. But at the end of the day, for basically two months, everyone has agreed that the revenue split was going to stay the same. We can stick with the money being the same from the last CBA. You knew there wasn't going to be a lockout because that's the only thing that's ever going to get anybody to consider. All this other stuff that's been going on is important is making sure everybody agrees on the money. So, you know, once that was out of the way. What level of credit should David Stern get for the league being in this kind of position where they're not fighting about the big things?

I guess he could get some, but I mean, frankly, I think Adam probably deserves more credit than David, just because during the last CBA in 2011, CBA negotiations, you know, Stern really kind of ceded the Florida negotiating as the league guy for the league because he was about to take. Really the biggest reason that there's no lockout is the giant new television deal. If you want to thank anybody, it's probably the executives at ESPN and Turner because, you know, the $3 billion basically coming into the league every year for the next eight years, that really is the biggest thing more than anything. it. Well, and you also got to thank, right, all of them, Fox, NBC, everybody, because the price got so high because everybody wanted it, right? Like, I mean, there was, life is leverage and all of these, you remember Fox wanted games, NBC sports and their channels wanted games? Like, everybody got in the mix for that, and so it just kept driving the price up. Yeah, no, totally. No, totally. I mean, you know, the NBA, the NBA is a huge draw right now. And, you know, like you said, Fox, you know, FS1 was sitting there trying to get some live content. That led to, you know, an NBC would have liked to get in the mix. That led to ESPN and Turner, you know, both pulling up huge money before that got to the open market to keep the rights in house. So, yeah, I mean, you know, the whole situation has worked out really to the benefit of

league from a performance standpoint. I think the encore product is better than, you know, he just has to face. There's more scoring, more free-flowing. You know, so I think, you know, I think on all levels, the NBA is building, it's got a ton of momentum going in the right direction right now. And that's why, you know, it just would not have been, it would not have made any sense on any level for them to let anything get in their way of having a deal done. And again, especially once they agreed on the money, you knew that this was the eventual outcome because there wasn't going to be a lockout on some of fees or... All right. Let's talk about some of those details. The league average salary is expected to jump

from 5 million to anywhere from 8.5 to possibly 9 million or at least in that range. Approximately a 45% jump in the rookie scale, minimum salary contracts, and then there's going to be some free agent exceptions that are going, including the mid-level. It just seems like everybody's going to be getting paid not a little more, a lot more, if you're talking about 45% bumps in these numbers. A percent bump for 2017 is taking into account all of the jumps that have glass CBA was created, right? So in 2011, when the CBA, the last CBA was done, the cap was about $58 million. Next year, it's going to be over $100 million.

Is getting all of the numbers basically to where they're going to be. Next year, they're going to be based on a percentage of the salary cap. It'll probably be close to the percentage they are next year. It is a big jump for one year, but the reason it's a big jump is because all of those numbers right now are artificially low. So they have to kind of catch them back up again. The mid-level exception and all the rookie contracts, that's the reason why first round picks have been so popular, right? In terms of asset, accurate position within the salary cap, use all those exceptions and have rookie contracts that kind of properly fit within the structure of the sour cap as opposed to being artificially low. because they were set five or six years ago, and the cap was $40 million low.

Is there going to be a big jump next year? Obviously, you're talking about those numbers going up. But, like, I think last summer, everybody said when you're seeing all these contracts being doled out, that these guys, the guys that were free agents last year were going to be the benefactor of this massive jump. And then things will kind of level out. But it does sound like we're going to get to another summer where we're going to see some just extraordinary contracts that we just got to recalibrate everything that, you know, $100 million just doesn't mean what $100 million used to mean when you see that number next to a guy's name?

Yeah, I mean, like this summer, because frankly, there's just not very many teams that can sign anybody next summer. You know, everybody had sour cap space this summer. So you saw every team going out and spending it. I think there's only seven teams maybe that have significant cap space. So I think you'll see big contracts every year. year going forward now because of, like you said, if you're just first and a guy's making, you know, for Maxes, you know, like Chandler Parsons of Memphis, you know, if he's getting 30%

of $100 million, that's a lot of them, right? But I think it isn't going to ever be quite like last year again just because there's not going to be the opportunity for basically every team in the which is why you had, you know, it's just an insane amount of money thrown around. Okay, tell me about this designated veteran star player and the idea that if you have a veteran star and this is one of the reasons that is given for now teams are really going to be able to hold on to their stars possibly more than at any other time. You can give

the guys up to five seasons, sometimes six seasons, if they've met some performance criteria. And that means it can be 35% of the cap even if there's no cap room. So to make this for dummies, this is what will affect, say,

Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins, these type of guys this upcoming offseason right now. And so if those guys are like all NBA guys or defensive player of the year or they meet some type of criteria, they'll be able to sign a six-year deal with their current team, whereas anyways, they'll be able to sign a five-year deal. So it's almost even more incentive for guys to resign with their current teams as long as their teams are willing to pony up the max, right? The short answer here is that for Russell Westbrook, the Thunder can go to him and offer him a part of $36 million.

And for Boogie Cousins, what exactly these performance criteria are. It's obviously pretty important. Exactly what exactly kicks in that extension. But they're all definitely going to be able to get it. And for teams, you know, like you experienced this in Memphis the last couple years. I don't know if Mike Conley would have qualified for it, but Mark Esau would have. And so, you know, you guys sat through a whole year waiting to see for sure if Mark was going to come back, even though you felt pretty good about it for agency because it didn't make sense from him to sign an extension before, right?

Now, next summer, there's a five year, you've got one year left on your deal. We're going to give you another five after that, starting at the max. You can start making a ton of money. That's free agency. and then if he says, I want to test free agency, well, then these teams have a choice, right? They could say, all right, we can wait and hope our guy stays or we can turn around and trade them.

Because the problem before was that the extension rules were so crappy in the last CBA that there was no incentive for any player to sign one. So for guys like Marcus Aldridge and Kevin Durant, they financially, they could tell their team, look, I want to stay here, but it doesn't make sense for me to lock in right now because the extension rules don't work in my favor. So let's wait until I get

to free agency then I'll sign a five-year deal. Well, then both guys left. If guys are willing to commit to you long term or not, right, it's time to trade this guy and get some assets for them. So I think it's a really good change because fully understand if guys want to commit to them or not. And if they don't,

it's going to give them an opportunity to turn around and get assets for those guys if they don't think they're going to resign. Does that mean my immediate reaction to hearing you explain that is, well, goodness gracious, then that makes it way more likely that somebody like Blake Griffin could move because, I mean, is Balmer going to pay Blake Griffin and Chris Paul $400 million in this offseason? $2 billion to buy the quipers.

I get it. I get it, but you still got to build a team. I think some, I mean, you still got to build a team, but I mean, I, the point is it's that anybody who's as good as those guys, you can keep on the team. So, I mean, yes, I think, I don't think that it's really going to drastically try out of a team like the Clippers. Like, I think they're, I think if those guys are willing to stay, I think they're both going to be back unless they just decided they don't.

You know, like, I think the Thunder would have been paying Russell and KD both, whatever they had to pay. I don't think, I don't think you're going to see, I don't think you're going to see teams run away from signing guys. Because frankly, you know, again, this kind of goes back to the same thing as before, right? Just as you were saying, you know, these numbers, might seem more eye-popping them before, but it's all the same percentage of the cap. Also, just way more money in the sport.

Humber seem crazy because there's so much bigger than they've been in the past, but there's also so much more money to pay everybody. It almost, it just kind of cancels each other out. And you've got to just look at it. This is what a new max is. Is this guy worth a max or not? And like for the Clippers, you know, CP3 and Blake, at least next year, definitely going to be worth the max.

Okay, but in the Warriors case, you'd have four guys that if you put them out for free agency would all get the max. So maybe at some point down the road, that's also a pretty good problem to have. I think just about any team in the league would be happy trying to. That's the definition of a first world problem. Do you think this has eliminated that

though, that you're not going to be able to have three amazing full max players? Like the super teams? No, I mean, this hasn't really changed. You might be paying some of these guys a little bit more than you were before, but it's not like these contracts are,

It's not like this rule has stated that we could pay these guys half to. None of the max, I mean, there's max salaries have changed a tiny bit. It's not worth explaining. They're essentially the same. And it's not like these contracts are going to be way more of it a year ago trying to pay four guys are just the same now as they would have been. It's got nothing to do with this new rule. But in fairness, those great teams, you have to have guys that are taking less than their market. value.

Right? So like, Man of Ginobley and Tony Parker undoubtedly left money on the table throughout the years. You could say the same is true of Dwayne Wade, right? And hell of it. That's why he's playing in Chicago right now. And so, you know, do you have with the team you've built the guys that are willing to take a little bit less to stick in their current situation?

Don't you think there's going to be a little more pressure for great players to do that if they want to stick in the? type of situations because let's just be honest the money ain't going to be there to give everybody what they quote deserve or could feasibly command. I think you're kind of all of these things that you're talking about are no different than they've been for the last 10 teams are always going to see if guys will take a little less money. I mean that that let me mention the spurs have been doing that for 15 years or 20 years.

This rule change that we're talking about and and the stuff that's put in the new CBA, that stuff is different. I mean, a big picture perspective is going to change whether the Warriors can keep all four guys. Like it just isn't where the other for these guys.

Well, those rules aren't any different before to pay them before. It's not like anything happened that made it less or more likely that they can now, if that makes sense. Okay. Well, then why am I, why do I keep reading that teams that want to become super teams

are losers in this situation? In fact, that's exactly, what Kevin Pelton wrote an article on ESPN. Okay. Well, okay. So I think what Kevin is... Right. I would imagine what KP is referring to is the fact that guys like Russell Westbrook and

Marcus Cousins and Paul George are more likely because they're getting this extension. That would be like, for instance, everybody kind of assumes DeMarcus cousins is going to leave. But if DeMarcus cousins can get a big, you know, can get a huge, max contract right now, it will be difficult, I think, is what I just looked up the story quick to see. And yeah, I think that that's exactly what he's referring to. It's going to be harder for superstar players to turn down that money. Right.

Like next summer, if you say to Russell Westbrook, here's an extension for $250 million or whatever. That's going to be hard for him to say, I can't sign this extension now because I can only sign for two years and next year I could tie for five years, so why would I sign now? Well, and here's the other thing, Tim, with both cousins and Westbrook, you're talking six because it's totally, I mean, listen, Westbrook's going to be all NBA. If that's one of the criteria, cousins are going to have a chance. So now it's not even five years anymore. It's six years with one guy.

And you know in those particular cases, if you're Oklahoma City, Westbrook's your one guy. And cousins in Sacramento would be your one guy that you would designate and say, all right, we'll pay you six. So now you're talking about crazy money leaving on the table if you want to walk. I say it's six years. What it actually is is with one year left, like right now, Russell Westbrook, under the old rules, Westbrook a three-year extension on top of the one year he had left. It's not that the Thunder are offering a six-year contract. It's a five-year extension on top of the one extra year he had left, just so people get that.

Okay, understood. Okay. All right, Tim, we're going to get back into some more CBA talk, but first, a word from our sponsors. Late Night TV just got darker. Deezis Nice and the Kid Mero have landed their own late night TV show on Vicerland, the new TV channel from Vice. It's called Deesis and Mero, late nights at 11 p.m.

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A lot of teams that already like to use the amnesty clause. I would be... Already? ...to get rid of the wall. Well, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious that that hasn't worked. Bro, he's played 25 games. Yeah, he's been terrible. So, I mean, if you could tell the Knicks, you could get out of that contract at the end of the season.

and they would say that sounds great. Same with Lualdang with the Lakers. I think they'd be quite happy if they could get out of that contract at the end of this year. You know, you can, you know, Miles Plumley got signed for $52 million by the box and he hasn't basically gotten off the bench all season.

So I think if you can run down the list and there are a lot of teams that wouldn't have minded it, wouldn't have minded having an amnesty clause in the deal. But, you know, the structures of the CBA didn't really change from a financial standpoint, which is part of why there's no amnesty provision. And, you know, frankly, there's a lot of teams that just manage their cap much better

that said, we don't want these teams to get out of jail free costs. You can afford to just cut a $50 million dollar check, the joke you know in the Wall Day to be able to do that. You know, for some teams that's going to wind up being a negative that there isn't one. 40 of teams, they looked at it. So it does seem like this, Tim, with this new collective bargaining agreement, smart management is at a premium more than ever.

That would be my first takeaway just from the conversation we've already had because of the amnesty thing. You can't just buy your way out of things. You know, this was one of the reasons that they did the whole luxury tax and made it so punitive that you can't just spend and spend and spend and spend and spend and spend and there not be punishment for that. And you can't just spend your way out of your mistakes. And the other thing is when you're talking about being able to resign players, and it being such a massive advantage for teams that already have control of said players to re-sign them,

the draft becomes even way more important than ever, because your ability to get a great, great player, I mean, outside of, you know what I mean? To attain a great, great player, you're either going to have to do it via trade or via draft because you're just not going to be able to count on being able to get that guy via free agency. At least you can't plan that way. Yeah. I mean, everybody has really changed teams the last couple of years, but it's still a clear.

Like, you know, look at Memphis, right? They drafted Marcus All's draft right. You, you, it's always going to be the best way to do it to build through the draft because then you have the guys in house and the system is now more set up than ever. think that's a, I don't think it guarantees the guys are going to stay, but it certainly makes it audible for guys to avoid free agency. And you look at the thunder a couple years, and if they could have kept their guys in free agency, they would have been a lot of so I definitely think that how KP wrote it and how you put it, that this might not get

to free to see at all because of the amount of money that's going to be thrown around. It makes you, it makes you wonder. It'll make it harder to build super teams like you said. Yeah, it makes you wonder if this is the standard, like this, this. I'll be interested to see what happens as years go by. But does the Miami thing ever happen? And like we said, I mean, if we accept Durant's probably not in Golden State under these rules, then I think it's probably fair to accept that if we would have gone back in time,

you know, that Miami thing never gets put together. Like that's how Miami built that. They signed Chris Bosch and they got, you know, LeBron James in free agency. That's how they did it. And Golden State got Durant in free agency. They didn't get those guys via trade. draft? Right.

Right. I just don't know. I mean, look, if guys want to play together, they're still going to make it happen, I think. But, you know, the bottom, the bottom line is, you know, this does make it, this does make it more enticing for guys to resign with their current teams. So, like, probability standpoint to have these teams form because you're not going to have these guys being able to turn it. I don't think that it's going to happen, but it's, the system is.

I, for one, love that. I also love the max roster size going from 15 to 17 and this installment of two-way contracts like they have in the NHL, which is basically now you've got two extra roster spots, but you can have guys that can shift back and forth from the D-League. And basically, if I understand this correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, when they're in the D-League, they get paid D-League money. When they're in the NBA, they get paid NBA money. And that's the end of the story, right? If they're on your roster, they're a rostered player, but if they're playing in the D League, they get paid like they're in the D League. If they're on your NBA roster, they get paid like they're an NBA player, correct? They'll make somewhere between 75 and 100,000 bucks in the D League, and they'll make, you know, whatever the minimum.

Go to the D League and develop and come back and play for you. It's going to help teams, you know, kind of develop and improve players. It's going to keep young players from having to go to Europe to make a decent buck. because they can make 100 grand playing in the D-League instead of making 25, which is what the average D-League guy makes. So I think from a long-term sustainability standpoint for the league, it's a huge step forward. And I think you're really going to see a lot of teams reap the benefits of it.

I mean, you look at a team like the Spurs, right? Jonathan Simmons has become a rotation player for them after playing in the D-League for the Austin Spurs. If every team can use those two roster spots that come up with another guy like Jonathan Simmons every couple of years to play for them. That's a gigantic win. And, you know, it's going to help young guys get better. It's going to get young guys more money. So I think it's a great development.

Well, and the other thing is that puts a great on us on these teams that can develop players, right? It creates a great advantage for them. The ones that are great at player development now have another advantage. I got to think they'll expand playoff rosters too, right? If the regular season roster is going to be able to go up to 17, I've got to imagine they'll probably extend the playoff roster by a player or two. I don't know about that.

I'm guessing it would probably just stay at 15, but who knows? I haven't, that's actually one thing I haven't 100% nailed down or frankly. But yeah, my guess is you'd have to set a playoff roster of probably just 15 guys, but that's honestly just a guess. Oh, I thought playoff rosters were 12. Am I wrong about that? Like teams have no teams like you don't have all 15 guys in your playoff roster you just can only 13 that's what okay that's what I meant that's what I meant right right right so I would guess

I would guess that it's going to stay to say I would guess the two-way guys won't be part of the the playoff roster for that season's going to start earlier I guess the major thing that comes out of this is uh you know less preseason and hopefully a small opportunity to have less back-to-backs throughout the year One week, preseason will be one week shorter, regular season will be one week longer. It will, you know, it will back to backs. Opportunities to get guys rest, less situations like what happened in. Didn't send their stars down to play your team.

Hopefully, you know, trying to reduce back-to-backs and this is another step forward. And lots of the NBA preseason the last few years has seen that. These teams don't really use the preseason anyway. I mean, it's just a money-making exercise. The last time we have to spend on these, you know, these shape of the, I mean, you know, I mean, you've seen guys are working out together at the gym. You know, these teams are getting together in like early September now. Well, and I don't understand why they can't just, I don't understand why they can't just do it like, you know, these NFL teams do.

Like, I've been, you know, like I've seen, you know, like where you do ever, where they come to, like, training camp. And it's almost like they practice together for three days. And then at the end of the week, they play a preseason game against each other in front of fans, whatever. But you get a live look against another team. Like, I don't know. I think the NFL actually has that one right, where they kind of let these teams just play against each other. But it's not necessarily the whole time to just fill an arena with fans or put on an exhibition. I mean, the preseason is awful.

I just, every year, I just dread it. every year. Yeah, no, it's the worst. That's why shortening it is a great thing for everybody. So I think that's going to be a big way. Sounds like early entry is still going to be 19 years old. American players, of course, have to be one year removed from high school. Early entry 19 years old.

But it doesn't sound like this is a hard, fast rule, that this is something that might, that is tabled for right now, but can be negotiated. It's not going to necessarily be this way for the next seven years because of a new CBA, right? Yeah, I mean, that's something that Adrian Wozorowski has reported. So I think that it's got surprised if it doesn't change. I think if we go back to 2011, I'm pretty sure that a similar conversation was at that, yeah, let's table this and talk about it later and it wound up never changing. I wouldn't be surprised if it changed in some form. Maybe they get it to two years at some point in exchange for something with the players.

You know, I think I'll be surprised. I would like to see that either you make your either zero, right? You can leave straight out of high school. We got too many superstars that left right after high school. And they turned out just fine, to be honest. Okay. So those guys that are these transcendent guys, And I know people can bring up the Corleone Youngs of the world, but they can also bring up the Kobe's and the LeBron's and the McGrady's and all these great, great players.

So I'm just saying you can either leave straight after if you've got the ability to go and be in the NBA or you've got to go to school for two years. And how about this? Even put in the protection for the guys that think they have a chance. And then they enter and it doesn't work out and they don't get drafted. Then they can go back to school, right? They haven't, like, blown it forever if they're a high school kid that puts their name in the draft. And the other thing is you've got expanded rosters now. You've got two more roster spots.

Yep. Right? So. Yeah. Listen, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think that, I think that's what the rule should be. Either go in right out of high school or you have to stay in college for a certain amount of time.

That's the rule they have in baseball. I think it's a great rule. I think that would kind of be the best of both worlds. And I think if the rule ever changes, I think that's what it's going to change to. Some form of you either can, if you, it'll be more than a year. That's my assumption. And, you know, I'm with you. I think that's the way to go.

Would be the best for everyone. And obviously, you know, you're 100% right. There should be a situation where if a guy in that situation doesn't get drafted. he can still go to college and do so the league is at and probably be pretty surprised I get you forcing Ben Simmons to go to LSU for a year is just stupid I mean just it's a waste of time it's a waste of everybody's time right he can go get I get the whole maturing or whatever but he he has he doesn't want to be there he's only going there because he has to literally only because he has to you're forcing him to go to pick a college to go make a mockery of it

for one year you know So I hope that, I hope it's not tabled forever, and I hope they do change that. Union officials are now going to handle negotiations for player likenesses in licensing agreements. The NBA has handled that for three decades. And what they did is they would just, they would, they would own the player likenesses. So I presuppose this would be like, say, EA sports or whoever, 2K sports or whoever. And then they would distribute a flat fee to the players in millions. right and but this is not the same with the NFL and major league baseball or the NHL so the NBA

that was one of their fights or the players association was we want it to be like these other leagues what level of significance I was trying to figure this out in terms of and I do wonder if the NBA PA is going to look back and go well damn the NBA did a really good job of selling all this stuff and getting our cut like now it's now it's their responsibility to sell this stuff and make X amount of money off of it. But if it was something they fought for, they obviously think they can make a lot of money off of it, right? Well, that's the other unions.

And it did it themselves. And the NBA, you know, the Players Association was paying the NBA at a fee and the league was doing it. And that isn't even actually really part of the CBA. It's like a separate thing that got and stuff like this. You kind of put everything on the tape. Something the players wanted. And I think that, you know, I mean, it should work out well for them.

I mean, you know, it should be a good thing. and we'll see if they can execute it. All right, here's a big one, Tim. The 36 and under rule has changed to the 38 and under rule. So to make this for dummies, the rule prohibited players from signing a five-year deal,

or five-year max deal. We can even make it, we can make it even simpler than that. And LeBron James would not have able to sign one last giant contract. Now they can't. It's really that simple. Well, Chris Paul,

And Carmelo. For it, because his contract runs much farther than theirs. So I don't think he could deal toward the end of it. But by then, like, he's kind of already going to fade it out of the max territory by the time he's 35. So that's going to be less of an issue for him. It's more going to be for, you know, LeBron will be able to sign a new deal after next season. And Chris will be able to sign one after this season. And because of the way this rule is now set up, they both can sign five-year maxes for a

insane amount of money, which is ironic, given that Chris and the top two people at the charge of the union. I mean, that would have, but that, that's the, the essence is guys like those guys can more easily get one last giant. Well, I read

this morning that Paul's contract on the full max, if it's a five-year deal would be $207 million. Five years, 207. Yep. I mean, good, career. And you will, I mean, you do wonder, what is Paul right now? What does he probably 32, 33, maybe?

What do you think? He'll be 32. He's going to be 32. He's not 32. He'll either be 32 or 33 next season. Yeah, in May. He'll turn 32 in May. Yeah.

So he'll be 30. It'll be 32 to 36 for his next contract. Yeah, because he's a lot of money. And do you want to pay a 36-year-old Chris Paul max money, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, that's something they're going to have to. Right. Well, I mean, I'll just tell you, when you see all those numbers going to be thrown around, you do wonder, when you're talking about minimum guys, we're talking about minimum guys, and you're talking about, like, the, I mean, the average salary being almost $9 million.

I mean, a lot of these contracts just aren't going to look nearly as bad as we all reacted, right? everybody reacted like wow that guy got that and that guy got that and now like the reality setting in that everybody's going to be making crazy money everybody like the numbers are just not what they used to be and so we got to totally recalibrate the way we think about those things right yep that's the best way to think about it is bigger now so you you know it's yeah it's everybody's spending more money it's just kind of you know you got to just kind of think about this is why people have always said it would be better if these contracts were just listed as so-and-so is making 35 because then you know whether it's 35 it's the same percentage we'll

he's getting 35 you know obviously it's it's not listed that way but that that that's probably the better way to think about it is that you know these guys are making thing about it in terms of this guys making a percentage of yeah um tim i think we did a reasonable job of being able to break down the cba and the new things that have been announced over the course i think so is NBA fans It's thrilling, right? It all seems like a good deal. Everybody's going to remain happy. And beyond anything, we're not going to be without basketball for any amount of time,

which was awful. It was awful for all kinds of people involved back several years ago now. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The important thing is that a deal got done and a sport that's thriving will remain thriving. That more than anything else, that's what really matters. You have joined me on the podcast a couple of times already this year. I want to ask you one quick trivia question if I can.

Who is in third place in the Eastern Conference as of right now? Thank you. They're also not going to be a third right now. You told me they were going to suck, Tim. It'll suck. Well, they've gone on a really nice run. They've had a soft schedule and they've taken advantage of it. They beat a bunch of bad teams in close games.

But the schedule is going to get harder. and I think two games out of 10th. So they could, they could, I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, they are two games out of 10. Don't you understand? I'm taking advantage of this. This is the one moment in time that they will ever be third place in the Eastern Conference and you happen to be honest.

They have a negative point differential, for God's sake. Yes, yeah, I know. And it's going to get worse tonight. They're playing the Warriors is going to be a superstar. It is a borderline. Like for the CBS. all the matters that it's done, and it's good that the league is rolling. For the Knicks, all that matters that they have a guy is going to be one of the best players in the league.

All right, I will ask you one basketball question because I want to get your opinion on this. The two hottest teams in the league of the Toronto Raptors who have won nine of their last 10 and the Houston Rockets who have won nine of their last 10. Which of those two teams do you believe in more? The criteria is, because I believe in both to some respects. I think that the Raptors are much more likely to get back to the Eastern Conference finals than anybody else in the East. The best team, even though they're also pretty – I think Houston's really good, though. I think they're the fourth best team in the West.

I think they're going to make it to the second round of the playoffs. Mike Dentone's system is just a perfect fit for that team. James Hardin's been incredible, though I do think that scheme. But I think those are two really good teams that should remain good, barring injury. Houston has really hit their stride. And people say, oh, he's still going to play defense, whatever. I mean, like, they, listen, you watch them night and out there. They're going to be able to just outscore you.

Like, if you'll play, it's one of those that if you can be a master of that type of game. And they are, I mean, you see that, it was going around the internet last night. I saw it all over Twitter. Do you see their shot chart from last night? Like, it was like a masterpiece of, you know, lay it up or tray it up. Like, either every, every shot they took was either in the paint or behind the three point line. I've never seen anything like it. As Mike Dantone has waited to have a team that could run his offense.

They have a team that can run his offense, and the results are kind of speaking for themselves, you know. Like they look like a, they look like a totally different team. And, you know, it's fun to see. I mean, I've always been a huge Mike fan. You know, he's kind of gotten a raw. It's fun to see that team play because, you know, putting the ball on James Hardin's hands and letting him make shots for other guys,

and Eric Gordon's bearing threes or Ryan Anderson's bearing threes. and they're a really fun, a really fun team to watch. Tim, I think we did pretty good making our way through the CBA and all the big news. It's clearly going to change everything that takes place

in the NBA for a long, long time, but it sounds like everybody's going to end up being happy, and I know both of us are going to be happy because at least we don't have to worry about workstop. But just, you demand, enjoy that Nick's Warriors game tonight, brother. I will, man.

Good to catch up, as always. Thanks, Tim. Tim Bondem from the Washington Post. going to do it for another edition of the ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, head over to iTunes, give us a rating and review, and we will talk to you on Tuesday. Thanks again to Capital One's Credit Wise app for sponsoring us today. Capital One created the Credit Wise app, so you can check your credit score any time you want right in the app. It's free to everyone, so download Credit Wise today. Availability depends on presence of credit history from TransUnion.

Credit Wise is offered by Capital One Bank USANA. Today's show is brought to you by Capital One's Credit Wise app. Capital One created the Credit Wise app. You can check your credit score any time you want right in the app. It's free to everyone, so download Credit Wise today. Availability depends on presence of credit history from TransUnion. Credit Wise is offered by Capital One Bank USANA. Welcome to the Winger NBA show.

I'm Chris Varnan. Join me today from The Washington Post is Tim Bontems. Timmy! What up, Virto? Hey, man. So big news came out last night. We're going to try to set this up somewhat. The big news in the NBA is that a collective bargaining agreement was reached between the players association and the league.

And we're going to try to set this up as somewhat of a CBA for dummies going through major points that have been reported. You did an outstanding job reporting for the Washington Post, AJ Wardenowski with Yahoo, Mark Stein, with ESPN, David Aldridge. And I kind of like from NBA.com, I've kind of pieced it all together. different facts about this new CBA. And we'll just kind of go through it and then talk about what it means. Good by you? Sounds great. Sounds great, buddy.

Let's do it. Okay, first things first. What level of credit should Adam Silver and Michelle Roberts get for getting this all done? Should either get more credit than the other. Well, should get a ton of credit. I wouldn't put one over the other. I think it's just a matter of, you know, look, the league is a washing cash right now. I mean, everybody, everybody's doing great.

There's, you know, everybody's making a ton of money. Since the last lockout in 2011, the sour cap has gone up almost by double by next season. So, you know, clearly the players are making a ton of money. 13 teams worth a billion or more now. It just would have been suicidal, getting all the momentum both on and off the court that the league has right now, for them to risk it when everybody's making a ton of money. about the possibility of a deal getting done. But at the end of the day, for basically two months,

everyone has agreed that the revenue split was going to stay the same. We can stick with the money being the same from the last CBA. You knew there wasn't going to be a lockout because that's the only thing that's ever going to get anybody to consider missing games. All this other stuff that's been going on is small potatoes and not nearly as important as making sure everybody agrees on the money. So, you know, once that was out of the way, it's all. What level of credit should David Stern get for the league being in this kind of position, where they're not fighting about the big things?

I ask you could get some, but I mean, frankly, I think Adam probably deserves more credit than David just because during the last CBA in 2011, CBA negotiations, you know, Stern really kind of ceded the Florida table doing most of the negotiating as the league guy for the league because he was about to take it. I think, you know, the bottom line is that really the biggest reason that there's no lockout is the giant new television deal. If you want to thank anybody, it's probably the executives at ESPN and Turner because, you know, the $3 billion basically coming into the league every year for the next eight years, you know, everybody's making a ton of money. So there's no reason for anybody to bail, you know, like that, that really is the biggest thing more than anything. Well, you also got to thank, right, all of them, Fox, NBC, everybody, because the price got so high because everybody wanted it, right? Like, I mean, there was, life is leverage and all of these. You remember Fox wanted games, NBC sports? and their channels wanted games.

Like, everybody got in the mix for that, and so it just kept driving the price up. Yeah, no, totally. No, totally. I mean, there's a huge – NBA is a huge draw right now. And, you know, like you said, Fox, you know, FS1 was sitting there trying to get some live content.

That led to, you know, an NBC would have liked to get the mix. That led to ESPN and Turner, you know, both pulling up huge money before that got to the open market to keep the rights in house. So, yeah, I mean, you know, the whole situation has worked out really to the benefit of the league from a performance standpoint. I think the encore product is better than. The games are fun to watch. There's a faster pace.

There's more scoring, more free-flowing. You know, so I think, you know, I think on all levels, the NBA is building, has got a ton of momentum going in the right direction right now. And that's why, you know, it just would not have been, it would not have made any sense on any level for them to let anything get in their way of having a deal. done. And again, especially once they agreed on the money, you knew that this was the eventual outcome because there wasn't going to be a lockout on increasing fees or on the fringes when everybody agreed on the important stuff. All right. Let's talk about some of those details. The league average salary is expected to jump from $5 million to anywhere from $8.5 to possibly $9 million or at least in that range. Approximately a 45% jump in the rookie scale, minimum salary

contracts and then there's going to be some free agent exceptions that are going, including the mid-level. It just seems like everybody's going to be getting paid not a little more, a lot more, if you're talking about 45% bumps in these numbers. For 2017 is taking into account all of the jumps that have gone in the salary cap since the last CBA was created, right? So in 2011, when the CBA, the last CBA was done, the cap was about $58 million. Next year, it's going to be over $100 million.

The percent jump is doing is getting all of the... After next year, they're going to be based on a percentage of the salary cap. It'll probably be close to the percentage they are next year. It is a big jump for one year, but the reason it's a big jump is because all of those numbers right now are artificially low. So they have to kind of... The mid-level exception and all the rookie contracts, all the rookie contracts, That's a reason why first round picks have been so popular, right? Those salaries have been artificially low.

So now, by having all those kind of jump up to an position within the salary cap, it'll allow everybody to kind of use all those exceptions and have rookie contracts that kind of properly fit within the structure of the sour cap as opposed to being artificially low because they were set five or six years ago and the cap was $40 million low. Is there going to be a big jump next year? Obviously you're talking about those numbers going up. But like I think last summer, everybody said when you're seeing all these contracts being doled out that these guys, the guys that were free agents last year were going to be the benefactor of this massive jump. And then things will kind of level out.

But it does sound like we're going to get to another summer where we're going to see some just extraordinary contracts that we just got to recalibrate everything that, you know, $100 million just doesn't mean what $100 million used to mean when you see that number next to a guy's now. Yeah, I think like this summer because frankly there's just not very many teams that can sign anybody next summer. You know, everybody had Sarah. You saw every team going out and spending it. I think there's only seven teams maybe that have significant cap space. So I think you'll see big contracts every year going forward now because of because of the way the, you know, like you said, if you're just the guys making, you know, if a max is, you know, like Chandler Parsons, You know, if he's getting 30% of $100 million, that's a lot of them, right?

But I think it isn't going to ever be quite like last year again, just because there's not going to be the opportunity for basically every team in the league, such as why you had. Okay. Tell me about this designated veteran star player and the idea that if you have a veteran star, and this is one of the reasons that is given for, now teams are really going to be able to hold on to their stars, possibly more than at any other time. You can give the guys up to five seasons, sometimes six seasons, if they've met some performance criteria. And that means it can be 35% of the cap, even if there's no cap room.

And so to make this for dummies, this is what will affect, say, Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins, these type of guys, this upcoming offseason right now. And so if those guys are like all NBA guys or defensive player of the year, or they meet some type of. criteria, they'll be able to sign a six-year deal with their current team, whereas anyways, they'll be able to sign a five-year deal. So it's almost even more incentive for guys to resign with their current teams as long as their teams are willing to pony up the max, right? The short answer here is that the Thunder can go to him and offer him a five-year, which would start at $36 million.

What exactly these performance is obviously pretty important to know. actually kicks that extension, but they're all definitely going to be able to get it. And for teams, you know, like you experienced this in Memphis the last couple years.

I don't have Mike for it, but Mark Esau would have. And so, you know, you guys sat through a whole year waiting to see for sure if Mark was going to come back, even though you felt pretty good about it. You know,

you had to wait for agency because it didn't make sense for him to sign an extension before, right? Now, next summer, Sam Pressing Russell Westbrook say, all right, Russ, here's a five year, you got one year left on your deal, we're going to give you another five after that, starting at the max, you can start making a ton of money.

What do you say? Test free agency. And then if he says, I want a test free agency, well, then these teams have a choice, right? They could say, all right, we can wait and hope our guy stays, or we could turn around and trade them. Because the problem before was that the extension rules were so crappy in the last BBA that there was no, for guys like Marcus Aldridge and Kevin Durant, they, they, financially, they could tell their team, look, I want to stay here, but it doesn't make sense

for me to lock in right now because the extension rules don't work in my favor. So let's wait until I get to free agency, then I'll sign a five-year deal. Well, then both guys left. If guys are willing to commit to you long term or not, to trade this guy and get some assets for them. So I think it's a really good change because it's going to give them an opportunity. opportunity to turn around and get assets for those guys that they don't think they're going to reside.

Does that mean, my immediate reaction to hearing you explain that is, well, goodness gracious, then that makes it way more likely that somebody like Blake Griffin could move because, I mean, is Balmer going to pay Blake Griffin and Chris Paul $400 million in this offseason? I spent $2 billion to buy the quipers. I get it. I get it, but you still got to build a team. I think some, I mean, you still got to build a team. but I mean, the point is,

it's that anybody who's as good as those guys, you can keep on the team. So, I mean, yes, I think, I don't think that it's really going to drastically change the mindset of a team like the Clippers. Like, I think they're, I think if those guys are willing to stay, I think they're both going to be back,

unless they just decide they don't want to sign one of them for, you know, for a talent. You know, like I think the Thunder would have been paying Russell and KD. I don't think you're going to see, I don't think you're going to see teams run away from signing guys. Because frankly, you know, again, it kind of goes back to the same thing as before, right? Just as you were saying, you know, these numbers might seem more eye-popping them before, but it's all the same percentage of the cap.

Way more money in the sport. The numbers seem, but there's also so much more money. It almost, it just kind of cancels each other out. And you've got to just look at it. This is what a new max is. Is this guy worth a three in Blake, at least next year, definitely going to be worth the max? Okay, but in the Warriors case, you'd have four guys that if you put them out for free agency,

we'd all get the max. So maybe at some point down the road, that's also a pretty good problem to have. I think just about any team in the league would be happy trying to decide if they want to give four. That's the definition of a first world problem. Do you think this has eliminated that, though, that you're not going to be able to have three amazing full max players?

Like the super teams? No, I mean, this hasn't really changed some of these guys a little bit more than you were before. But it's not like these contracts are, it's not like this rule has stated that we could pay these guys half the dollars have changed a tiny bit. It's not worth explaining.

They're essentially the same. Contracts are going to be way more than what they would be otherwise. Are just the same now as they would have been. It's got nothing to do with. It's got nothing to do with this new rule. But, but in fairness, those great teams, you have to have guys

that are taking less than their market value. Right. So like, manager nobly and Tony Parker undoubtedly left money on the table throughout the years. You could say the same is true of Dwayne Wade, right? And hell, that's why he's playing in Chicago right now. And so, you know, do you have with the team you've built the guys that are willing to take a little bit less to stick in their current situation? Don't you think there's going to be a little more pressure for great players to do that if they want to stick in these type of situations? because let's just be honest, the money ain't going to be there to give everybody what they, quote, deserve or could feasibly command. I think you're, I think you're kind of, all of these things, it's nothing, nothing.

Teams are always going to see if guys will take a little less money. I mean, you mentioned the Spurs. I've been doing that for 15 years or 20 years. I mean, I don't, this rule change that we're talking about and the stuff that's put in the new CBA, it's just, I mean, a big picture person can keep all four guys. Like, it just isn't afford to pay all for these guys. Well, those rules aren't any different. Okay, well, then why am I, why do I keep reading that teams that want to become super teams are losers in this situation?

In fact, that's exactly what, when Kevin Pelton wrote an article on ESPN. Okay, well, okay, so that I think what, I think what Kevin is referring to, I haven't read his article. Right. I would imagine what KP is referring to is the fact that guys like Russell Westbrook and DeMarcus cousins and Paul George likely to cause they're getting this extension. That would be like, for instance, everybody kind of assumes DeMarcus cousins is going to leave. But if DeMarcus cousins can get a big, you know, can get a huge max contract right now. it will be difficult. I think is what I just looked up the story quick to see.

And yeah, I think that that's exactly what you're referring to. It's going to be harder for superstar players to turn down that money. Like next summer, if you say to Russell Westbrook, here's an extension for $250 million or whatever the five-year extension would be. As opposed to, well, I can't sign this extension now because I can only sign for two years and next year I could sign for five years, so why would I sign down? Well, and here's the other thing, Tim, with both cousins and Westbrook, you're talking six

because it's totally, I mean, listen, Westbrook's going to be all NBA. If that's one of the criteria, cousins going to have a chance. So now it's not even five years anymore. It's six years with one guy. And you know in those particular cases, if you're Oklahoma City, Westbrook's your one guy and cousins in Sacramento would be your one guy that you would designate and say, all right, we'll pay you six. So now you're talking about crazy money leaving on the table if you want to walk.

When you say it's six years, what it actually is is with one year left. Like right now, Russell Westbrook have offered Westbrook a three years. Just so, just so it's not that the Thunder are offering a six-year contract. It would be a five-year extension on top of the one extra year he had left, just so people get that. Okay, understood. Okay. All right, Tim, we're going to get back into some more CBA talk, but first a word from our sponsors. Late Night TV just got darker.

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career field, cities, and searches. And right now, my listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free by going to ZipRecruiter.com backslash ringer. That's ziprecruiter.com backslash ringer. One more time, try it for free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com backslash ringer. No amnesty clause. There's previously been an Amnesty Clause. allowing teams to waive players and have their salaries removed from the cap. So how does that affect things? A lot of teams that already like it would be... Already?

...well, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious that that hasn't worked. Bro, he's played 25 games. Yeah, he's been terrible. So, I mean, if you could tell the next, you could get out of that contract at the end of the season, they would say that sounds great. Same with Lualdang with the Lakers. I think they'd be quite happy if they could get out of that contract at the end of the season. of this year. You know, you can, you know, Miles Plumley got signed for $52 million by the

box and he hasn't basically got off the bench all season. So I think if you, you can run down the list and there are a lot of teams that wouldn't have minded, wouldn't have minded having an amnesty clause in the deal. But, you know, the structures of the CBA didn't really change from a financial standpoint, which is, which is part of why there's no amnesty provision. And, you know, frankly, there's a lot of teams that just manage their cap much better. that said, we don't want these teams to get out of jail free card. You know, we don't want the Knicks and the Lakers who can afford to just cut a $50 million dollar check, the joke you know, and the wall bank.

Some teams that's going to wind up being a negative teams, they looked at it. So it does seem like this, Tim, with this new collective bargaining agreement, smart management is at a premium more than ever. That would be my first takeaway just from the conversation we've already had because of the amnesty thing. You can't just buy your way out of things. You know, this was one of the reasons that they did the whole luxury tax and made it so punitive that you can't just spend and spend and spend and spend and spend and spend and there not be punishment for that. And you can't just spend your way out of your mistakes. And the other thing is when you're talking about being able to resign players and it being such a massive advantage for teams that already have control of said players to resign them, the draft becomes.

even way more important than ever because your ability to get a great, great player, I mean, outside of, you know what I mean? To attain a great, great player, you're either going to have to do it via trade or via draft because you're just not going to be able to count on being able to get that guy via free agency. At least you can't plan that way. Yeah, I mean, I am in years, but like, you know, look at Memphis, right? they drafted Saul's draft

traded for Zach Randolph him you you uh it's always going to be the best way to do it to build through the draft because then you have the guys in house

and the system is now more set up and I don't think that's a I don't think it guarantees the guys are going to stay but it certainly makes it to avoid free agency and you look at the thunder and the blazers the last couple years for agency they would have been a lot happier

so I definitely think that ability to how KP might not get to free to see at all because of the amount of money that's going to be thrown around. It makes you wonder, right? And it'll make it harder to build super teams like you said. Yeah, it makes you wonder if this is the standard. Like this, I'll be interested to see what happens as years go by. But does the Miami thing ever happen?

And like we said, I mean, if we accept Durant's probably not in Golden State under these rules, then I think it's probably fair to accept that if we would have gone back in time, you know, that Miami thing never gets put together. Like that's how Miami built that. They signed Chris Bosch and they got, you know, LeBron James in free agency. That's how they did it. And Golden State got Durant in free agency.

They didn't get those guys via trade or draft. Right. Yeah, right. I just don't know. I mean, look, if guys want to play together, they're still going to make it happen, I think. But, you know, the bottom line is, you know, this does make it more enticing for guys to

re-sign with their current teams. I'm a capability standpoint to have these teams form because you're not going to have these guys being able to turn it. I don't think that it's going to happen, but it's the system is... I for one love that. I also love the max roster size going from 15 to 17 and this installment of two-way contracts like they have in the NHL, which is basically now you've got two extra roster spots, but you can have guys that are, you know, can shift back and forth from the D League.

And basically, if I understand this correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, when they're in the D League, they get paid D League money. When they're in the NBA, they get paid NBA money. And that's the end of the story, right? They're on your roster. They're a rostered player. But if they're playing in the D League, they get paid like they're in the D League. If they're on your NBA roster, they get paid like they're an NBA player, correct?

They'll make somewhere between 75 and 100,000 bucks in the D league, and they'll make whatever. The really good step forward, go to the D league and develop and come back and play for you. It's going to help teams kind of develop. It's going to keep young players from having to go to Europe to make a decent buck because they can make $100 grand playing in the D league instead of making $25, which is what the average D league guy makes.

So sustainability standpoint for the league, it's a huge step forward. forward. And I think you're really going to see a lot of teams reap the benefits of it. I mean, you look at a team like the Spurs, right? Jonathan Simmons has become a rotation player for them after playing in the D-League for the Austin Spurs. If every team can use those two roster spots and come up with another guy like Jonathan Simmons every couple of years to play for them, that's a gigantic win. And, you know, it's going to help young guys get better.

I think it's a great development. Well, and the other thing is that puts a great on us on these teams that, can develop players, right? They create another advantage. It creates a great advantage for them. The ones that are great at player development now have another advantage. I got to think they'll expand playoff rosters too, right? If the regular season roster is going to be able to go up to 17,

I've got to imagine they'll probably extend the playoff roster by a player or two. I don't know about that. I'm guessing it would probably just stay at 15, but who knows? I haven't, that's actually one thing I haven't nailed down or frankly even really thought about it. You could, my guess is you'd have to set a playoff roster probably just 15 guys, but that's honestly just a guess. Oh, I thought playoff rosters were 12. Am I wrong about that? Like teams have, no, teams like, you don't have all 15 guys in your playoff roster. 13. That's what, okay, that's what I meant. That's what I meant.

Right, right, right. So I would guess, I would guess that it's going to stay to say, I would guess the two-way guys will be part of the playoff roster. Season's going to start earlier. I guess the major thing that comes out of this is less preseason and hopefully a small opportunity to have less back-to-backs throughout the year. Preseason will be one week shorter, regular season will be one week longer. It will less four and five. Hopefully less situations like what happened and didn't send their. They're pretty striding about trying to reduce back-to-backs and try to really. have as much focus on player health as possible.

And, you know, to their credit, I think they've done a really nice job of that. I think it's one that, you know, look, anybody who's watched the NBA preseason the last few years has seen that, these teams don't really use the preseason anyway. The less time we have to spend on these preseason games that guys have to shape their effort, I mean, you know, I mean, you've seen guys are working out together at the gym. You know, these teams are getting together in like early September now. Well, and I don't understand why they can't just, I don't understand why they can't. just do it like, you know, these NFL teams do.

Like, I've been, you know, like I've seen, you know, like where you do have a, where they come to like training camp. And it's almost like they practice together for three days. And then at the end of the week, they play a preseason game against each other in front of fans, whatever. But you get a live look against another team. Like, I don't know. I think the NFL actually has that one right where they kind of let these teams just

play against each other. but it's not necessarily the whole time to just fill an arena with fans or put on an exhibition. I mean, the preseason is awful. I just, every year, I just dread it every year. Yeah, no, it's the worst. That's why shortening it is a great thing for everybody. So I think that's going to be a big way. Sounds like early entry is still going to be 19 years old.

American players, of course, have to be one year removed from high school. early entry 19 years old but it it doesn't sound like this is a hard fast rule that this is something that might that is tabled for right now but can be negotiated it's not going to necessarily be this way for the next seven years because of a new CBA right yeah I mean that's something that Adrian Wozorowski is reported so I think that basically, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't change. I think to be sure that a similar conversation was at that, yeah, let's table this and talk about it later and it wound up never changing. I wouldn't be surprised if it changed in some form down the road.

Much maybe they get it to two years at some point in exchange or something. I would like to see that either you make your either zero, right? You can leave straight out of high school. We got too many superstars that left right after high school and they turned out just fine, To be honest. Okay. So those guys that are these transcendent guys, and I know people can bring up the Corleone Youngs of the world, but they can also bring up the Kobe's and the LeBrons and the McGrady's and all these great, great players.

So I'm just saying you can either leave straight after if you've got the ability to go and be in the NBA or you've got to go to school for two years. And how about this? Even put in the protection for the guys that think they have a chance. and then they enter and it doesn't work out and they don't get drafted. Then they can go back to school, right? They haven't like blown it forever if they're a high school kid that puts their name in the draft. And the other thing is you've got expanded rosters now.

You've got two more roster spots. Yep. Right? So. Listen, I'm with you. I'm with you. I think that, I think that's what the rule should be. So either go in having baseball, I think it's a great rule.

I think that would kind of be the best of both worlds. And I think if the rule ever changes, I think that's what it's going to change to. You either can go if you, if you, it'll be more than a year. That's my assumption. And, you know, I'm with you. I think that's the way to go. Would be the best for everyone.

And obviously, you know, should be, the way she doesn't get drafted, he can still go to college and do stuff. But the league is at, and I'd be pretty surprised. I get you. Forcing Ben Simmons to go to LSU for a year is just stupid. I mean, it's a waste of time. It's a waste of everybody's time, right? He can go get, I get the whole maturing or whatever, but he has, he doesn't want to be there. He's only going there because he has to, literally only because he has to. You're forcing him to go to pick a college to go make a mockery of it for one year, you know? So I hope that, I hope it's not tabled. forever and I hope they do change that. Union officials are now going to

handle negotiations for player likenesses in licensing agreements. The NBA has handled that for three decades and what they did is they would just, they would own the player likenesses. So I presuppose this would be like say EA sports or whoever, 2K sports or whoever.

And then they would distribute a flat fee to the players in millions. But this is not the same with the NFL and Major League Baseball or the NHL. So the NBA, that was one of their fights or the Players Association, was we want it to be like these other leagues. What level of significance? I was trying to figure this out in terms of,

and I do wonder if the NBA PA is going to look back and go, well, damn, the NBA did a really good job of selling all this stuff and getting our cut. Like now it's their responsibility to sell this stuff and make X amount of money off of it. But if it was something they fought for, they obviously think they can make a lot of money off of it, right? It did it themselves.

And the NBA, you know, the players of FB and the league was doing it. And they water the CBA. It's like stuff like this. You kind of put everything on the tape. I mean, it should work out well for them. I mean, you know, it should be a good thing. And we'll see if they can execute it the way they hope to. But that is something.

All right. Here's a big one, Tim. The 36 and under rule has changed to the 38 and under rule. So to make this for dummies, the rule prohibited players from signing a five-year deal, or five-year max deal. We can even make it, we can make it even simpler than that. LeBron James would not have able to sign that. It's really that simple. Well, Chris Paul, LeBron James, and Carmelo.

Well, Carmel. Because his contract runs much farther than theirs. So I don't think he could deal toward the end of it. but by then, like, he's kind of already going to fade it out of the max territory by the time he's 35. So that's going to be less than issue for him. It's more going to be for, you know, LeBron will be able to sign a new deal after next season, and Chris will be able to sign one after this season. And because of the way this rule is now set up, they both can sign five-year max for an insane amount of money,

which is ironic, given that Chris and LeBron are the top two people in charge of the union, that would have, that rule. The essence is guys like those guys. can more easily get one last giant. Well, I read this morning that Paul's contract on the full max, if it's a five-year deal, would be $207 million. Five years, 207. Yep.

I mean, good greed. And you will, I mean, you do wonder, what is Paul right now? What is he probably 32, 33 maybe? What do you think? How old do you think? He'll be 30. He'll be 32. He'll be 32 or 33 next season.

Yeah, in May. He'll turn 32 in May. Yeah. so he'll be 30 it'll be 32 to 36 for his next contract yeah because he's a lot of money that is and do you want to pay a 36 year old chris paul max money you know yeah i mean that's you know that's something they're going to have to that's something they're going to have to weigh right well i mean i'll just tell you all when you see all those numbers going to be thrown around you do wonder when you're talking about minimum guys

we're talking about minimal guys and you're talking about like the I mean the average salary being almost nine million dollars I mean a lot of these contracts just aren't going to look nearly as bad as we all reacted right everybody reacted like wow that guy got that and that guy got that and now like the reality's setting in that everybody's going to be making crazy money everybody like the numbers are just not what they used to be and so we got to totally recalibrate the way we think about those things. Right? Yep.

That's the best way to think about it. The numbers are bigger, but everything is bigger now. So, you know, it's, yeah, it's, everyone's also making way more money. So it's just kind of, you know, you got to just kind of think. This is why people have always said it would be better if these contracts were just listed as so-and-so is making 35 pounds because then, you know, obviously it's, it's not listed that way. But that's probably the better way to think about it is that.

You know, these guys are making, think about it in terms of this guy's making a percentage. Yeah. Tim, I think we did a reasonable job of being able to break down the CBA and the new things that have been announced over the courts. I think so. As NBA fans, it's thrilling, right? It all seems like a good deal. Everybody's going to remain happy. And beyond anything, we're not going to be without basketball for any amount of time, which was, it was awful.

It was awful for all kinds of people involved back several years ago now. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The important thing is that a deal got done and a sport that's thriving will remain thriving. More than anything else, that's what really matters. You have joined me on the podcast a couple times already this year. I want to ask you one quick trivia question if I can. Who is in third place in the Eastern Conference as of right now? Thank you.

They're also not going to be in third right now. You told me they were going to suck, Tim. Well, they've gone on a really nice run. They've had a soft schedule and they've taken advantage of it. They beat a bunch of bad teams in close games. But the schedule is going to get harder. And so they could, they could, I'm looking at it right now. Yeah, they are two games out of ten.

Don't you understand? I'm taking advantage of this. This is the one moment in time that they will ever be third place in the Eastern Conference and you happen to be honest. They have a negative point differential, for God's sake. Yes, I know. And it's going to get worse that I is going to be a superstar. Like for the CBA, all the matters that it's done,

and it's good that the league is rolling. For the Knicks, all that matters that they have a guy is going to be one of the All right. I will ask you one basketball question because I want to get your opinion on this. The two hottest teams in the league of the Toronto Raptors who have won nine of their last 10 and the Houston Rockets who have won nine of their last 10. Which of those two teams do you? believe in more?

I mean, I guess it depends on what your criteria is, because I believe in both, to some respects. I think that the Raptor is more likely to get back to the Eastern Conference finals than anybody else in the East. Best team, even though, I think Houston's really good, though. I think they're the fourth best team in the West. I think they're going to make it to the second round of the play for that team, James Hart.

So I do think that both sealing is kind of limited in the grand scheme, but I think what they're doing is really good teams that should remain good barring injury. Houston has really hit their stride and people say, oh, we still got to play defense, whatever. I mean, like they, listen, you watch them night and and out there. They're going to be able to just outscore you. Like if you'll play that, it's one of those that, if you can be a master of that type of game and they are, I mean, you see that, it was going around the internet last night. I saw it all over Twitter. Do you see their shot chart from last night? it was like a masterpiece of, you know, lay it up or tray it up.

Like either every shot they took was either in the paint or behind the three-point line. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, no. Like Antonio has waited to have a team that could run his offense. Speaking of them for themselves, you know, like they look like a, it's fun to see. I mean, I've always been a huge Mike fan. You know, he's kind of got a raw deal. It's fun to see that team play because, you know, put the ball.

James Harden's hands and letting him make shots for other guys. And Eric Gordon's Burnt, Baring 3s, or Ryan Anderson's bearing 3s, and it's really fun team to watch. Tim, I think we did pretty good making our way through the CBA and all the big news. It's clearly going to change everything that takes place in the NBA for a long, long time. But it sounds like everybody's going to end up being happy. And I know both of us are going to be happy because at least we don't have to worry about work stop. But just you demand, enjoy that Nick's Warriors game tonight, brother. I will, man.

Good to catch up as always. Thanks to Tim Bond Town from the Washington Post. That's going to do it for another edition of the Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, head over to iTunes, give us a rating and review, and we will talk to you on Tuesday. Thanks again to Capital One's Credit Wise app for sponsoring us today. Capital One created the Credit Wise app, so you can check your credit score any time you want right in the app.

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