The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 57: D-Rose's Absence, the Knicks' Next Move, and McCollum Trade Talk With Kevin O'Connor

Episode Date: January 10, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss MIA Derrick Rose (5:00), what's next for the Knicks (15:00), moving Paul Millsap (23:00), C.J. McCollum trade talk (28:00), Joel Embiid at point guard (36:00), and Steph Curry's cameo on 'Family Guy' (42:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon alongside me. Every Tuesday is Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer, the ice cream man himself. What's up, Kev. Chris, what's going on. What a game last night. Oh, the college football game was totally unbelievable. Before we came on today, we were talking about Deshawn Watson, who made quite the name for himself.

He became a legendary figure in sports, that's for sure. I can't believe you watched it. I didn't know you liked college football. Yeah, man. Football is right out there with me for just right there at basketball. I'm a big NFL fan too. All right. Well, the big story that came out of the NBA last night was the missing in action Derek Rose.

This is bizarre. Now, as the time of recording, we don't know what the situation. We haven't gotten any clarity per se outside of, you know, I think Hornacek said it is a family situation. There are reports that he went back to Chicago, but he'd gotten benched in a game and then he didn't show up to the arena last night. And the reports that came out from Adrian Orgenowski were that the Knicks had reached out to him but hadn't had any contact with him. And then the game just plays out horribly for the Knicks and get two guys ejected. They almost hurt Anthony Davis or rather did hurt Anthony Davis. And they didn't know where their starting point guard was.

I read Chris Ryan did a rundown of it on the ringer this morning. It's all so bizarre for that to be the NBA story last night. Yeah, I mean, it's bizarre that Rose has fallen so fast. fast really. I was thinking back, it was just six years ago at this time. Derek Rose was in the middle of an most valuable player season. He was unbelievable. He was probably, I think, not the consensus top point guard in the league, but he was a consensus top three to five point guard. And so quickly things can change in the NBA. And it's just sad to see how it's happened, really. You know, and I, you know, I hope everything's okay with him. I hope everything's okay with his family. I knew Derek a long time. I first met Derek when he was in high school. course, he played college basketball at Memphis, and I covered those teams. And I've always had to find this for him. This whole situation is quite bizarre. And I hope everything's okay with him, but I've been through this once before with a player, and it was Alan Iverson. When he first

came to play for the Memphis Grizzlies, he lasted like all of three games, and he just left. And it was a, quote, family situation. And he was never to be heard from again, right? I mean, like, right before he left, he said, you know, people were like, are you injured? And his famous quote was, my butt hurts from sitting on the bench. Right. That is what he said. And then he was gone. And then, like, I don't know.

It's the first thing that came to my mind because it's all too, you know, I hate to speculate that something's not wrong with him. But it is quite coincidental that things haven't been going right for Rose on the court. Andy got benched in the game. And then he just doesn't show up. to the arena the next time around. You know, it reminded me of, I think it was a 2012 feature article in GQ magazine by Will Leach, and it detailed how Derek Rose doesn't love the fame. I looked at that this morning before we got on, and there's a paragraph in there that Leach

wrote something along the lines of just how Derek Rose just doesn't like all the attention that comes with the stardom. He doesn't, he wants to be able to have time where he's a lot of. where he's just with his family, where he can just have 24 hours to himself. And I wonder if that's really just what it was here. I mean, there was the report that said he went back to Chicago to be with his family. It might be the type of thing where it's just he doesn't want the attention. He just needs the time alone.

And I think, you know, it's his job and it's his responsibility to be there for Nick's games. And he, you know, we don't know what happened exactly. But I think it's just interesting to go back to read that article in GQ. consider it with what's happening today and what we're talking about. Given that being true and that's his personality. Yeah. Is there anything worse than playing in New York?

I mean, good grief. Yeah. I know. Especially after what happened last year. And at least in Chicago, he always had the safe haven of it being hometown. Right? It's a big market.

But Derek Rose was a hero from the time he was 15 years old in that market. And his family and friends are all there. Right. And so this is this is the first time. in a long time, even when he played college basketball, his brother and others around him were around all the time, right? Like, just, you know, he's just a one-year deal when he had to play in college. Other than that, he'd been in Chicago. Like, he left Chicago, played college basketball for a year, right with his brother, and then went right back to Chicago the next year all the way up until this year.

So he's had this kind of bizarre situation where he was never particularly, out on his own, right? Like, in a city, like, most people, like, they go to college and maybe they end up in a different city or whatever. And he, like, had the one year of playing college basketball, which wasn't even a full year, and then he was right back home. And so it's kind of odd that, you know, you'd be this far down the road in your life and never been anywhere other than your hometown, given his profession.

No, absolutely, Chris. Weird. So I hope everything's okay. with the guy, but, listen, forget all that off the court stuff. The basketball team, like the Knicks, they were doing okay. They were 14 and 10 doing pretty well. And now you got these, you know, Carmelo getting thrown out of the game last night. The sketchy quotes from Porzingas where he's kind of disappointed about stuff,

it looked for a while, like at that point where they were 14 and 10, and they were probably third or fourth in the east for a minute, that, you know, things were going okay. The Hornacek thing was working. and they weren't really good defensively, but they were good enough, you know, on a night-to-night basis to be a pretty good team in the East. But things have just gone the wrong direction for them, basketball-wise, forget. And now you add this on. Yeah, well, I mean, you mentioned when they were 14 and 10, but I think even at that point, you could look at their team and say, well, is this really sustainable?

And since then, they've gone 3 and 11. They've been absolutely horrible, as you outlined. but I just don't think the team has a good fit. I just don't love the mix. And you look at the team and you just wonder, what should they do? Carmelo Anthony has his no trade clause. How many teams would he realistically waive that no trade clause? And even if he was willing to waive that no trade clause,

what would those teams have as assets they could even give to the Knicks that would want to make them do a trade? So in some ways, I look at the Knicks and they just feel like a team that's just stuck where they are with the contracts that they sign, with Carmelo having the no trade clause. They just seem like it's a really bad situation and in the sense that even though they have talent, I don't think they're in a position

where they can really move the needle to move towards being a real contender or even a team that can even make a little bit of noise in the playoffs for that matter because at this stage, they would miss the playoffs if the season ended up. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think there are a couple games out from the eight seed.

So with them, I just wonder what they should do. personally, I think they should try to trade Carmelo Anthony, but the difficulty is finding a home for him. And it sucked because you do have two outstanding players in Carmelo and Porzengis. And Porzengis, he's still got a lot of time. Is Carmelo outstanding anymore, though? Is Carmelo outstanding at the stage? What?

I don't know. Carmelo Anthony? No, but outstanding. So you're saying, you're saying top 10 player, Carmelo Amphi. I don't know if he's a top 10 player in the league. right now, but Carmelo Anthony, Carmelo Anthony is still, he is still awesome, Kevin. Good grief, what?

I don't know if I'd call him outstanding, but I guess it all depends on the label and the definition of the label, but he's not the 28 point per game score he was just five years ago. It's the same thing with Derek Rose. Rose has fallen further than Carmelo has, but Carmelo isn't quite the same guy. You see Carmelo in like something like the Olympics, amongst the best players in the world.

We're talking about the NBA, though. I'm saying he was like the best guy that said, don't act like that Carmelo Anthony is not still a great player. That's his goofy. And maybe he would be in a different situation. Maybe you're right. Maybe in a different situation, his level of play would rise back up. But as he's playing right now, he is not the same guy as he was just two or three

years ago. His three point percentage, his shooting percentages are down. He's dealing with that shoulder injury, which I assume. could be affecting his play. He's just, I don't think he's the same guy. He is not the same guy as he was, say, four years ago, right? But I still think Carmelo Anthony is an outstanding player in the NBA. He's 32 years old.

It's not like he's 40. He's still unwilling to play the four, too, which I think would accelerate their team. The original point was that both him and Porzingis, it's like, you know, these are lost years. They just are. You know what I mean? They're not doing that. anything. And, and maybe, you know, listen, I think it's fair to say the best of Carmelo is behind him, but he can still be one of your best two or three players on a really good team.

And that's, and maybe Porzingis could too. And this is just like, you know, I mean, again, it's just a wasted year probably for both of their careers. Yeah, I mean, sure. In some ways, I look at this year. And I don't know if we talked about this during one of the preseason completely. podcasts. But with the Knicks, I just look at them and like all I really care about is just keeping Porzingis healthy and watching him develop into the star that he's becoming. And, you know, it is a wasted year in terms of they might not make the playoffs and Porzingis might not be able to shine in the playoffs. But he is making huge strides in his second year. And I think personally, scouting him when he was playing overseas prior to the draft,

before the 2014 draft, I had him ranked 10th on my board, and he decided to stay another year, which turned out to be an incredible decision. Obviously, he turned into a top four pick going to the Knicks. But I don't think I ever expected him at 21 years old to be doing the things he's doing right now. The dude has developed just a rapid rate in a way that I didn't expect him to at all. So even though it might be a lost season for the Knicks franchise, in a sense, what they're getting from Porzsche. Zingis just it bodes well for them if they pull the right strings and make the right decisions over these next couple of seasons.

Whatever you want to call the phase they're in, I look at it as a transition phase. I don't see them as a winning organization until they make moves. But whatever they do the next couple of years, building around Porzinius, building a core around him that fits and allows him to operate at the highest of levels, I think that really needs to be their priority. I agree. He'll be the guy. He'll be the guy that they will end up building around.

He's still very, very young. Um, it's just like, I, I would love to see them in playoff situations. And at least as of today, it does not look like that's in the future. That doesn't look like that's in the cards, right? Well, if they were, we might see a sweep against Cleveland anyway. If they were like eight, if they were like eight, but from two down and maybe Toronto bashes somebody, but honestly, from three down in the east, throw them all in a half. I mean, I don't think that there's, I, I don't think so.

I think, I think you have to put, I think you have to put, Cleveland on their own, obviously, but I think Celtics and Toronto are pretty close. I think those two teams are tight. Oh, you could put the Celtics up there. I'm fine with that. Well, we're going to see them play tonight, too, as well. So I think that'll be interesting match. I'm fine with putting the Celtics.

If you think there's a line of demarcation between those three and everybody else, that's fine. So Celtics, Celtics record is not. I don't, I think they are better than what their record is, right? Now they've gotten their guys back healthy. They still have nights, though, where I want to. Well, they're 15 and five. when their starting lineup is healthy. Right.

And they haven't, they haven't had that lineup for quite a lot. So that's why tonight, even tonight, they won't have Avery Bradley. So that'll hurt them against DeVrozen and Kyle Lowry. Well, two wit on the whole, when we're scouting out the Eastern Conference, you go to those three teams, Cleveland,

the Toronto and Boston, right? Four is now Atlanta, which we've got to bring up because the reports are this morning that Millsaps off the table. Now, all anybody has talked about over the course of the last week is they moved off Corver and now it'll be Millsap and it'll be Cepilotia and those guys are going to go somewhere else. Well, Mark Stein from ESPN,

reported this morning that Millsaps off the table. Now, we'll see if that's true or not or if that's, you know, just what they're saying, you know, but sources say that Millsaps off the table. And the major reason is because they can't stop winning. Like they win, you know what I mean? Like they made this deal. And now they're winning all the time. They've won six in a row. They're eight and two in their last 10. And so that's part of the reason they don't want to move him. And then there was this other explanation about the whole Corber thing, which was basically that they liked the two other guys.

They wanted to get Bambri on the court. They wanted to get Taurine Prince on the court. And they have been very good at developing guys that are not necessarily expected to be, they developed them, whether it's a base. or whether it's Damare Carroll. And so they have these guys and Bembri and Prince and they want to develop them. And so the whole Corver thing was not necessarily a flare that we're changing it all up, but rather, you know, we're doing this to make room for these guys.

And now they, like I said, they won six in a row and maybe Millsap's not going to be on the move. So I think first of all, I think any time you can get the Andre Bembri playing time could be a good thing for them because I just think he he could be a really impactful player maybe not this season but I look at the impact Malcolm Brogden is making for the bucks and in some ways Benbury is a little bit similar as a player in terms of he's a do-it-all kind of Swiss Army knife player so I like I like their pick they made for Benbree in the draft and if he's able to get playing time then great as for Paul Millsap I I'm just a little bit confused on what they're doing here could Granted, you know, as you outlined, there's the report that they want to get the young guys playing time.

I just don't see, I don't look at their situation and see how a team would cough up a whole lot from Paul Millsab, considering that he's going to be 32 and he'll be an unrestricted free agent this summer. I wrote yesterday on the ringer about how if you're one of those playoff pretenders, if you're one of, if you're the pelicans or you're the magic or something like that, I don't see why you would cough up a whole lot for Paul Millsap. So I wonder if the report last night from Woj and today from Mark Stein that them pulling Millsop off the table is really just a reaction to a lack of real interest, to a lack of teams being able to cough up what it would actually take to get Millsap. And maybe back February, we do see his name come back in discussions.

Or maybe we won't. Maybe teams won't be willing to give what it would take. But I just think it's odd how one day he's on the block and one day it looks like they're rebuilding and then two days later suddenly they're just because they've been on six games in a row they're going to keep their guys 32 in a free agent coming up this summer yeah but you always have that pressure right and you brought this up in the case of like orlando with henigan that's where you know that's where the rubber hits the road when it comes to the trade deadline because some of these guys if their team does not play up to

the expectation level of the owner they're going to lose their job and so all of a sudden those deals start getting a little bit better right all of a sudden you're you're willing to give up maybe some young guys in a first round pick just because you got a, you know, you would love for everybody to have some kind of long-term plan, but long-term plans get thrown out the window when you think you might lose your job. No, absolutely. And, you know, that was kind of the center of that is that, you know, if you're Atlanta, you want to milk this out as long as you can go and try to get these teams bidding against

each other. Because at some point, you're right. Maybe the Orlando Magic or whoever it is. It doesn't really matter. Team X, if Team X gets to a point where they feel pressure and they, the GM and the front office feels like they got to make a move to get the seven or eight seed or at least have positive strides coming after the trade deadline. Yeah, maybe ownership does influence a team to give up a little bit more than they actually probably should for Paul Millsap. So I think if you're Atlanta, that's what you're hoping for. You're hoping that a team decides, fuck it, we're just going to go all in trying to.

to go for the playoffs even if it's not in our best interest. Yeah, what do you do? The Kings, the Pelicans, teams like that, you don't know what they're going to do by that. Yeah, and maybe in the offseason, like we keep talking about, you know, he's 32 years old, they might get a max deal. Maybe, Millsap is weirdly always been a guy that's taking crappy contracts, you know, like his whole career. I swear this guy's been like the worst paid, outstanding player. Can I call him outstanding? Was he outstanding enough for you? Sure. But he's always had crappy contracts. contracts, like always.

And so it's weird. Like, does he cash in finally? Or does he, like, get one more crappy contract? Go back and look at his deals and what he has signed, like, all along the way. He's never been paid like other All-Stars. And so, who knows? Maybe he'd take a three-year, you know what I mean? Like a three-year max wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, right, if you're another

team. And so that's why I'm saying. you might give something up to him because this guy's got a track record of not necessarily taking or getting great deals over the course of his career yeah um so with milsap i think he'll get the next this summer i don't think it matters at he's 32 and i i don't think it matters that he's probably shown subtle signs of decline this season i think he's good enough and he's three-time all-star he's the type of guy has a great fit in today's going to be and i think he'll get a max.

And if he's healthy, I do think his game does kind of, his type of game, I think will age well. I think he could lose a little bit of his explosion, explosiveness and still be a productive player. But honestly, I just, I wouldn't want to give him a max.

If I'm a team that isn't in a spot where it's actually ready to contend, if I'm Toronto, I look at Paul Millsap and I see him possibly as a final piece to close the gap on Cleveland. But if I'm like the kings, I wouldn't want to give Paul Milsape a max. If I'm the pelicans, I wouldn't. Even though those teams need a guy next to their guy, cousins and Davis,

I just don't know if Millsap gets you to the level that you need to get to. Considering his age, considering the fact that he hasn't been quite as awesome this year, considering the knee surgery he had before the season, there's just concerns there with me for him. for teams that aren't ready to actually contend. And in fairness, in 2015, he did cash in a little. He didn't get a super long deal, but he signed a three-year deal for $60 million. So he's getting, he got 19 last year.

He's got 20 this year. He's going to get 21. It's a player option. But up until that, up until that deal, Paul Millsap never got paid more than $10 million. His highest that he got paid through the first one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, years of his career, the first nine years of his career, he never had a $10 million contract. That's insane. To be fair, he was, he was a reserve in Utah for the first four years of his career.

Right. So that, that first contract after his, after his rookie scale contract, I think, I don't think he was in a position really to get paid the big bucks at that point of his career. But he has cashed in and he's turned into an all-star in Atlanta, though. Yeah. So now he's at a point where he's going to get that max. So that's going to be a lot of money for Paul Millsap for if he does end up getting moved. But as of right now, they're saying it's unavailable. But the interesting thing is they're winning, Kevin.

So, right? Like that is the other side of this. They've won six in a row. They're eight and two in their last 10. And, I mean, at the playoffs start today, they got damn home court advantage. You know, so like, do you want to move Paul Millsap when you got home court advantage? Yeah. Yeah, I do.

Really? I do. I would. If you're getting the right return on him, I think, I think Millsap, what he said publicly, and what he said publicly is that he wants to stay in Atlanta. And his choice a couple years ago when he resigned there indicated that he wants to stay in Atlanta. So maybe the Hawks do feel comfortable that they'll be able to keep him around, and maybe they'd be less likely to deal him for that reason.

but the same concerns I have about him with this team, with other teams in terms of the fact that I don't know if he puts you over the edge, I don't know if I'd want to sign him for that, Max. I tell you, if you're able to get a lot for him, which I don't know if you are, maybe that's a better path, but there's no guarantees that you can get a lot for.

I'm telling you, if I'm a top four seat, I'm not moving him. No way. What? You're a twisted ankle away from maybe like playing in the East finals or the NBA finals or something. You know, somebody's big time guy goes out and you never know.

And if I got home court advantage in the first round, and then, I mean, again, like, you just never know the way the playoffs are going to play out. And what do you want when you go into the year? If he's, I don't know, man, I would, if I can be the four seed, if you told me I don't move him and I get the four seed and then I can figure it out, I'd rock with it. And it seems like that's what they're doing. If they did move him, like let's just say they did, what do you think? think they do with Dwight Howard with his year the years left on his deal do you think that there would be much of a market for Dwight because he is having a pretty good year with Atlanta I I'd know I'd keep him I'd keep him again what do you want to be what do you

want to be if you're Atlanta I just I I I don't like getting rid of of good players I'm I'm I'm a Sam Hinky truther I trust the process so I think I'd want to bottom out especially this year with this draft I'd want to I'd want to stack up on draft picks in 2017, man. I'd want as many as possible this year. You've got a long way to bottom out. I mean, when you're the fourth seed right now. I know, I know.

You do have a long way to go, but as Joel Abed said recently, the Sixers are only like seven and a half games out of the eight seed. The Hawks are maybe, what, 10 games back from the third best lottery odds or something like that. You can bottom out quick if you want to. trust you are a sam hinky truther really yeah i think what hinky did is pretty awesome uh with the sixers i think you know i think it remains to be seen how it remains to be seeing how it will work out but i thought it was a really cool thing to actually see what i've done in video games for years actually happen in real life just tank tank tank and then accumulate a lot of talent and then

you can do anything with those assets well they haven't done that much with those assets I mean, we don't know what Hinkie would have done if they kept him on. They hired Calangelo and obviously pushed Hinky out the door. We'll see what Calangelo does. I wish Hinky could have seen this through, though, just to see what would have come of it. You talked about some of the other. In an article that you wrote yesterday about the trade deadline coming upon us, you wrote about the Blazers, and you wrote about how this whole idea of Lillard and McCollum and a lot of people are bringing this up. Now, as it stands right now, they are the eighth seed.

But there's a wide gap. There's the seven teams that are pretty solidly in the Western Conference playoffs, and then there's a seven-game gap between Oklahoma City and the Blazers. And then the Blazers are bunched up with the Kings and the Pelicans and the Nuggets and even the Lakers. All those teams are within two games of each other. And the idea was that they need some rim protection. Their defense has been horrendous for Portland. but then you brought up, does rim protection,

maybe that doesn't necessarily fix the problem, which is your back court defense and the inevitable, you know, if you're going to have these two great players in McCollum and Lillard, like the sacrifice you make is you're not going to be great defensively in the back court, right? So in that article, kind of the point of discussion was that there's guys out there

that could potentially solve their room protection issues or at least help it in a positive way. Tyson Chandler is a guy they were reportedly interested in. Obviously, Nerlands, Noel's name has been on the market for months now. Andrew Boggart with the Mavericks could get moved eventually. So those guys could obviously help their room protection issues. However, it doesn't solve their issues defending on the perimeter because of the back court of C.J. McCollum and Damien Lillard.

And I think in many ways, that's kind of the, primary source of their issues on the defensive end of the floor. And I think it's really hard to build a true championship contending team. I think they can be great those two. I think they can be a great team that makes runs at the Western Conference finals, and maybe they even get into a finals. But I just don't even view them. I just don't view that backcourt.

This current roster construct is a team that can win the title. And ultimately, that's the goal. So this has been discussed before the idea of trading C.J. McCollum. for a guy like DeMarcus cousins. That's a name people talk about a lot. McCallum for cousins. I don't think Boogie gets traded at this point. So let's assume

that a trade like that isn't available. What they could do is they could get their rim protector. They could go for Nerlands Noel still, but they could also cash in McCollum for a lot of draft picks. And the deal I proposed within the article was something along the lines of. Let me pull it up right here.

I swear you, I swear, every time I read Does any, I think you, I think, all right, if I was ranking the people that love Nerlands Noel in life, I would say his mother won Kevin O'Connor two. Oh, I'm not, I'm not at that level. But the trade, the trade was. So here's the thing. Here's the trade I put out there. I said, the Blazers send C.J. McCollum to the Sixers for Nerlin's Noelle, the Sixers

unprotected 2017 first, the King's unprotected 29 first, and multiple second round picks. Blazers fans reacted to that like, hmm, but no, Sixers fans reacted to that like, hell no, we're not giving up our draft fix for CJ McCollum because he can't play defense at all. And both sides, I think, you know, if they argue no, I think they have legitimate points. I'm not so sure that I would do that trade if I were the Sixers because I am, like I said earlier, so high on this draft, I think I would rather open up the Markell Fultz mystery box more so that I would the, you know what you're going to get in C.J. McCollum box. I think I'd rather go that

path. But I think you could look at this deal and say McCollum puts the Sixers at a level where there's suddenly one or one or two guys away from having a really, really, really good team because McCollum is a great fit next to Embed and Ben Simmons. Simmons will be the point guard, but he needs to play with another guard that can also handle the rock. But here's the key. They need to be a great shooter off the dribble because Simmons is going to handle the ball a lot. And McCollum is an outstanding shooter off the catch. Markell Fultz in the draft, there's no guarantees you're going to get him. I like a lot of the other draft prospects, point guard prospects this year, but I don't love them like I love Foltz.

So that would kind of be my thought here that maybe you're getting a guy that you know is a fit, whereas other prospects, you're not quite as sure. So. Well, and here's the thing, Kevin. What's a percentage chance? that you draft somebody better than C.J. McCollum, I would say very low. It's very low. It's low. Totally. You're 100% right. And that's what I think Sixers fans, you know, their negative reaction to the trade. That's what you're underestimating is the fact that even if you do get Markell Fultz, who I think will be a tremendous player in the NBA, there's still a chance that he doesn't become a tremendous player. It all depends on your independent evaluation of him.

And the fact that C.J. McCollum has already proven it for multiple seasons and Fultz hasn't even finished his college year. And with Fultz, I don't think he's quite the knockdown shooter McCollum is. And I think it could take him years getting to that level. So I think, you know, if this deal were to happen, I think McCollum would accelerate the Sixers plan. He'd make them maybe a contender for the seven or eight seed in the East, which is quite an improvement over what they are now. And as for the Blazers to get the side of that is that they could potentially get a guy who's a better fit. It doesn't have to be Fultz. It could be one of the forwards. It could be Jackson or Tatum. It could be Giles. It could be anybody else in the draft that they think is a fit for

their future, a fit for making them a contender. Whereas when McCollum, I just don't see that upside. I think there's a ceiling on what they can become with the current construct of the team, whereas maybe opening another door where they get their star young run protector and noel and maybe getting another young player maybe that does put them on a path where they actually can reach a higher level than what they can right now and it'd be a hard deal to make on both ends but i i think the reaction to it is kind of positive to me in the sense that both sides are saying no so i think that means that's an indication that we're pretty close to what could be a cool theoretical trade or maybe you came up with a crappy one if everybody hates it.

I don't know. I don't know. My experience, if one side is saying yes and the other side is saying, hell, no, you're an idiot, that usually means it's a bad trade. But if both sides are saying, hell, no, you're an idiot, that's usually the case when it's a pretty good idea. Because nobody wants to trade their best players and nobody wants to trade their best assets. And those are the toughest deals to make when it involves big name players and big name assets.

But sometimes those are the deals that you need to make. Well, speaking of the 76ers, you had a chance to talk to the aforementioned Joel Mbid, and you talked to him about his ball handling prowess. Mbid as a point guard. We're going to hear this clip right now. You mentioned the other day that you want to be a point guard by the end of your career, and I know you're dead ass serious about that, but I have to ask anyway, are you serious about wanting to be a point guard by the end of your career?

Yeah, dead ass. I'm really serious. You know, I think I feel like. I can't, I'm willing to learn and I feel like I can do anything on a basketball court. And if I had someone to teach me, I'd be a point guard. I think I can't, obviously guarding all the point guards would be kind of tough. But, you know, if I get the chance to do that, that's what I want to do. Now, you're going to be able to hear the entire conversation that Kevin had with Joel Embed.

You can check this feed, the NBA show, later today. and we'll have the entire conversation up. But you were fascinated by this whole idea that Joel Embed can run the pick and roll as the ball handler, huh? Yeah, so Ambide said last week to reporters after a game that, you know, by the end of his career, he wants to be a point guard. And I think it was kind of taken as a joke online.

And so I asked him about it. And obviously, as you heard, he's dead ass serious. But he's not going to be a point guard. I mean, he's too talented of a big man to ever become a point guard. But I think we can't underestimate him developing as a ball handler. And that's something that he needs to do over the course of his career. The large majority of his turnovers are a result of poor decision making or forcing plays that aren't there or simply just mishandling the ball.

So at this age, 22, he's not the ball handler. He'll be when he's 28. And this is kind of the key here. I think he is great passing instincts when he does look to pass. And I think he's a highly accurate passer when he is looking to pass. So if he does develop as a ball handler, the pure instincts are there for him to be able to distribute the ball a little bit. I'm not saying he'll be point guard or playing the pick and roll would be a key part of his offense. But I think a guy that's as unbelievably talented as he is, maybe by the end of his career,

we're looking him as a little bit more of a dynamic player than just a post-up player who just happens to shoot threes. I think he could be a guy that drives closeouts to attack or potentially kicks the ball out a little bit. You see glimpses of it already. I've never seen a guy his size move like he does. And there'll be times where he catches the ball out at the three point line. He's crossing big guys over already. So, I mean, I know it sounds kind of goofy, but I absolutely could see him becoming a really good ball handler that, you know, is making moves to the basket. I mean, I've already seen it, you know, in short spurts.

So I cannot, I pray that that kid is over the injuries, you know what I mean? Because I cannot fathom what he could look like in two or three years from now. I mean, just like nothing we've ever seen, ever. Yeah. And, you know, the other part of that conversation that people can listen to is, you know, I asked him about, you know, what it takes to be great. I mean, what are the things that he's learned about the things you have to do? And I think, I think Embed has proven over time just with how much of a sponge he

is, how quickly he's improved at Kansas, how much he improved over his two years off from playing. I think he is a good track record and a great kind of mindset that you need to have to reach the level that he can reach. I think a lot of those players are unique in their mindsets. And Embed seems to be someone who has an understanding of what he can become. And he is a coach in Brett Brown who has openly talking about the potential Ambide has to be one of the great. So he has support from his coaches.

And I think he has an understanding of himself of what. he can become and how he can get to that level. We're going to do some quick hits when we come back. First, a word from our sponsor. Today's Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Soylent. Fueling our bodies every day can often feel like hard work. Sometimes it can be so challenging to decide on what to eat or prepare a proper meal. But feeling good about what you eat doesn't have to be an unattainable goal thanks to Soylent Drink.

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before we get out of here today. Dremont Green says DeMarcus cousins is the best big man in the NBA. Do you agree? No, not if you factor in defense. I think offensively you can make that argument, but not defense. Who's the best big man in the NBA?

Would you take Davis? Would you take Marcusall? Would you take... I know you take Marcusal. Had to throw up. It was a Marka Saul's a name. VP candidate. You know, I would probably take Anthony Davis, just because I think, you know, if he were surrounded by better players, I think his play would even be elevated to a higher

level than it already is. All right. Anthony Bennett, cut again. Is he the biggest bust? I went back and looked at number one picks, right? So the conversation, especially over the course of the last 20, 25 years, you got a little candy, you got Kwame Brown, you got Greg Oden. And I went and looked, and all those guys were at least more productive in the time that they were on the court than Bennett.

And I don't know if it's all over if the book is closed on Anthony Bennett, but this is another team that's gotten rid of him. But even like, you know, All Well Candy, it's like 8.7 rebounds. One year he had like 11, average 11 and 9. And clearly, you know, listen, was not a great number one. None of these guys that I'm mentioning. Odin was just ravaged by injuries. But in his time on the court, you know, I think Greg Oden would have been a great player if it weren't for the injuries.

Guamay Brown, you know, he had like over a decade-long career at least, even though it's obviously not a great pick by any means. Bennett might be the biggest one, Keff. I mean, it certainly looks like right now because, I mean, it's not injuries. You just not good. If you if you if you don't factor in like I guess expectations because with Kwame Brown, I would say expectations were him were a whole lot higher than they were for Anthony Bennett. But if you don't factor that in and you just look at production,

yeah, I would say Anthony Bennett is probably the biggest bust in league history. I think I think it's a little unfair to him in a sense that I don't think many people looked at him as a number one pick. That was kind of a surprise to a lot of people. If Victor LaDipo went number one that year, which he should have, I think, you know, we would be saying, oh, you know, he hasn't quite met expectations, but he became a pretty good player. Anthony Bennett just doesn't seem like the type of guy who's putting in what needs to be done to reach the level that he can become, which isn't great. But I think he still has talents.

And I think I think it's disappointing that he hasn't developed into even a contributing level player. Somebody else is going to take a shot on him. They will. I don't know. How about this? I don't know, man. You know why? I went and looked this up this morning.

This is going to be shocking. you. You know, he's 23. He is the same age as Denzel Valentine and Buddy healed. Can you believe that? Yeah, I mean, he's 23, but at the same time, how many chances he's had? He's played for four teams and four seasons. And he just got released by the worst team in the NBA that has literally nothing to lose by giving him playing time and seeing what happens. I think, I think when the net signed him, I was like, Oh, this is great. Anthony Bennett's going to get an opportunity to play in a situation and maybe get over whatever he needs to get over.

And it just hasn't happened in what I thought was the perfect situation for him to actually develop into even to even develop into like a back end bench guy. I mean, that was kind of my thought is like, let's hope this dude can stay around in the league. And it just hasn't happened. No, to your point, he's not even getting cut off good things. He's getting cut off crappy ones. that's usually not a good old man if you can't if you can't stay on the if you can't stay on the bad

teams that's a tough spot and if they don't even want to keep you it's just it's disappointing all right last one kevin step curry had a cameo on the family guy if you could have a cameo on any cartoon i don't know not not family guy though you don't like family guy i'm i'm not a family guy person you know if i if i were to get a cameo on a on a cartoon it would probably be like one of the old Nickelodeon shows. I don't know which one. Maybe SpongeBob. That would be pretty sweet.

Spongebob? I'm not sure why they would have anybody that have to do with basketball and SpongeBob, but maybe SpongeBob. Who knows? Maybe it was a basketball episode, right? Yeah, maybe. Who knows? Spongebob Squarepants.

That's a good answer, Kevin. All right. Well, everybody can go check out the NBA thing's going to be up later today. You're going to be able to check out this feed, the Ringer NBA show feed. for Kevin's extended interview with Joelle and B. Then you're going to do an accompanying little article, right, for the ringer.com? Yes, and I'll be tweeting that out, and it'll be on the ringer. Awesome.

Can't wait to read that and listen to that later today. That's going to do it for the Ringer MBA show today. If you like what you're hearing, head over to iTunes. Give us a rating and review, and we will talk to you on Thursday.