The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 61: LeBron's Acting, Melo Trade Talk, and All-Star Ballots

Episode Date: January 17, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss the Warriors' drubbing of the Cavs (5:00), LeBron's flopping (8:00), Melo's trade options (12:00), the improving Wizards (19:00), Buddy Hield's defense (25:00), All-Star ballots (28:00), Wade-Melo legacy picks (35:00), and League Pass problems (40:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It is a Tuesday, and every Tuesday I'm joined by Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer.com. Hey, Kevin. Yo, Chris, what's going on? All right, so last night, we had the massive Cavs Warriors game, Showdown number two. I think there was an expectation that this would matter a lot more to the Warriors, given what took place in the finals and then obviously on Christmas Day. and it seemed like it did matter a lot more to them last night.

That was a, that was a, I don't know, I could see the Warriors, you know, it mattering a lot in them winning. I don't know if I saw a drubbing coming though. Yeah, I definitely didn't see it going the way it did. I mean, they just came out guns blazing the entire first half. And I can't get over the fact that they had 37 assists on 46 made baskets. That's just ridiculous. It's not often you see a team.

assist on over 80% of their makes. In some ways, watching last night's game, for the people who came into this NBA season thinking, oh, it's over, it's going to be the Warriors, they're going to win the title no matter what. That last night's game, they see that. They're like, yeah, the Warriors are who we thought they were. Do you think it matters? Do you think last night's game matters in the grand scheme? No.

No, honestly, not really. Things change in the playoffs, right? minute distribution changes. We'd see different lineups in the playoffs. We'd see game to game adjustments. So last night, for example, and Jonathan Charks wrote about this on the ringer, how the Warriors were aggressive in their switches. They put like Zaza-Picholia on LeBron James and it worked because it forced LeBron into isolations. But in the playoffs, in a potential final series, we'll see Cleveland make adjustments

to that. In the next game, they, may attack that switch a little bit differently, depending on how the Warriors defended, and then the Warriors will react to that, and that's how the playoffs go. So does it matter for the regular season? Narrative? Yeah, for sure. But for a potential trilogy, third finals rematch series, I don't know if it matters a whole lot at all. I think we all thought it was crazy to think that Golden State would take a run at 70 again, much less 73.

But that's – it's now 41 games into the season. went through a little growing pains at the very, very beginning possibly, but that's the exact midway point. That was their 41st game last night. They're 35 and 6. I mean, they – listen, if they played the same way they played the first 41 games, they'll end up winning 70 games again. It's outrageous, right?

It's amazing. It's amazing. And it's funny because I thought – I thought – I don't know if – I forget if we talked about. this but I think early in the year kind of the national conversation was like oh the warriors aren't what we thought they were but at the same time even then they still were putting up ridiculous numbers while they were still feeling each other up getting to know each other getting to know how to play with each other and now we're at the point of the season where they're right where kind of where we thought they would be they have their top their second in offensive rating

right behind the raptors and I believe they're tied for first and defensive rating which the Jazz. So they are top two in offensive and defensive rating and they are putting up a ridiculous net rating differential. So this team is potentially as historic as people thought they were going to be heading into the season. Granted, they just got off to a little bit slower of a start than I think people were expecting. But we'll see if they do outpace themselves and make another run at 73. All right. So the game was terrible, but there was something that came out of that game that I found interesting, and that is, for the first time in a long, long time that I can recall, when we're on social media, et cetera, LeBron was getting busted up last night.

You know, like inside the NBA and Barclay, they're jumping him, you know, for the, for the Draymond Green flagrant foul, and I think most people thought a little, maybe a lot overacting from LeBron. But LeBron, you know, going back to Cleveland and then obviously winning the title, and then Durant signing with Golden State. LeBron kind of moved from the villain, oh, he just teamed up with an awesome team to, you know, I don't know. I think the perception of him changed a lot.

And for the first time this year, it's kind of like he's not the overwhelming favorite for a long time. He's not Goliath, per se, anymore. But last night felt like the first time, like it was like, I don't know, there was a lot of pent up. You remember how you used to feel about LeBron, a long, long time ago. And he hadn't done anything to make everybody, you know, be so snarky about him.

But it felt like last night for the first time in a long time, like people were getting their jokes off on him, man. Yeah, so I have a lot of mixed thoughts on that play last night. For one, yeah, 100%. It brought back so many of the memories with LeBron just complaining and whining and during his first stint with the Cavs. And then when it was with the heat, it just brought back so much of that. the player that people looked at him as the stud who hadn't won a title.

But at the same time, even though he did absolutely exaggerate the contact, Draymond Green did really make hard contact with him. And you can see how, at the least, LeBron would have been pushed back. Maybe he wouldn't have fallen if he didn't exaggerate there, if he didn't flop. But that was still a dangerous play. And I don't think Dremond did it on purpose. I think he just reached for the ball and it was just kind of, they just collided. But in some ways, I look at that play.

And I thought it was more dangerous than any of the so-called kicks by Dremont Green. But for whatever reason, it's not being portrayed that way. Because I tend to lean on the side where Dremont's kicks are no big deal. I really don't think they are. I think players swing their legs up all the time because it's momentum. Oh, stop. Stop it. Are you serious? No.

Yeah, I'm dead serious, man. He kick people in the nuts all the time. Come on. Yeah. Okay. Look, I have clips saved on my computer, like, prepping for a potential article in the future of guys just landing and their legs swing upwards because it's a natural motion. And with Drayvon, with that, I think that's a totally overblown story. And this is probably an overblown story for that matter, too.

But I just think this was a little bit more. reckless of a play than something, quite frankly, I don't think he can help with the leg kicking motion. Okay. If you think he kicked Stephen Adams in the nuts last year on accident, you're insane. Come on. Like, I mean, I like Dremont just fine. And I get that his leg swings up.

But I guess it's one of those, right, boy that cried wolf of your leg swings up all the time. Like, you can't be connecting with people's nuts. Do you know anybody else that is a serial nut kicker in the NBA? How is he the only one? If it's such a natural motion, how do his foot end up hitting guys in the nuts so often? You can look back at Dream on Green playing at Michigan State, and his legs swung up the same exact way then as they do now. And it's unorthodox, it's weird, and it's hard to think about as something natural.

But all you really have to do is just look for it and you'll find it in most every single NBA game when big men go up. for rebounds. Now granted, I think Dream On's kick against Marquis Chris a couple months ago, I think that was probably purposeful. But some of the kicks when he's landing after jumping high in the air, I don't think at all those are purposeful. Maybe they're exaggerated a little bit, but I think the motion itself is quite natural because we see it so often from so many big men when they jump in the air. Well, I will say this. LeBron sold that in such a ridiculous manner last night, that it, like, even if it was a bad foul, you're just going to, like, I don't know, like, even if it was bad, it's, it made it, he attempted to make it look 500 times worse than

it really was. And so there is, I don't have a great gauge on how bad it was. I know that he's going full motion, LeBron, and he does not get stopped in his tracks and fly like that. I mean, it's just, it's ridiculous. It was a, I mean, it's like, you flop, because. Big time. Flopped.

It's like when he, I thought it was a smart, incredible play by LeBron when he baited Dremont Green into the flagrant in the playoffs. And I wonder if in some ways that's what LeBron was going for here to try to get him kicked out of the game. A couple other things that took place last night. Chris Paul sprained his thumb. This is certainly something worth monitoring given, you know, that they have not been able to make it full healthy through a playoff series

many times at all have the clippers. And Paul's already missed some time. Obviously, they've been without Blake. And so it's certainly something worth monitoring what's going to happen with Chris Paul. That's one. And then the other one, obviously, Kevin Love, having to sit out the second, you know, half of that game. And they say he's day-to-day with the back. But again, and anytime I hear about a back, I get worried.

Oh, yeah, especially Kevin Love for any big man. But with him, obviously the Cavaliers will be fine if they have to go without love for an extended period of time. The most important thing for them is that they have him healthy for their playoff run. And as for the Clippers with Chris Paul, man, like every single year, this team suffers injuries. It's just insane how it happens. And Chris Paul, if he's out for any extended period, and I don't think we know yet as of recording this podcast. But they're like, I don't have the exact number in front of me, but they're around 20 points per 100. possessions better when Chris Paul is on the floor compared to when he's not.

He's the guy on that team that really makes them go. Not Blake Griffin. They can survive without Blake Griffin, but Chris Paul's ability just to run that offense and turn into a scorer if he has to, he is the guy that makes that team really go. Yeah. So that's certainly something for all NBA fans to keep an eye on with both of those guys getting a little banged up. The other story that came out over the weekend was this Carmelo Anthony stuff is getting

rather interesting now, Kevin, because there was an article like an op-ed written by Charlie Rosen, who, for those unaware, Rosen is like the confidant for Phil Jackson. He's always been, in most people's mind, an extension of him or extension of his thoughts, right? If your buddy, if your longtime buddy writes an article, people are just going to presuppose that it is your opinion, especially when you're in the powerful position. It happened all the time when the guy was the coach of the Lakers. And so now as a management situation that Phil Jackson's in, Rosen writes this article and basically says Carmelo Anthony has outlived his usefulness to New York. This caused everybody to go start asking him questions about his loyalty, if he'll waive a no trade.

This is just insane to me that Phil Jackson, like, I mean, I've got to believe he knew Charlie Rosen was writing that, right? Like, it almost feels like he was doing his bidding, and now they're getting to the point to find out if Carmelo will rave is no trade. I just, what a mess, man. I mean, your point card just went AWOL last week. Porzingis has had the sore Achilles, and now it looks, doesn't it kind of feel like Phil Jackson's trying to push out Carmelo?

I mean, it's hard to speculate about something like that, because even if Phil Jackson did feel that way, We don't know for sure if he was using Charlie Rosen as the mouthpiece for that information. It could very well be Charlie Rosen's opinion. So I think it's a little unfair to speculate about that. But regardless, right, I think it's accurate. I think it's true that Carmelo Anthony kind of probably should be a guy that they should move. We touched on this a little bit last week.

And I think they need to do what they can to find a new home for him. And the difficulty is, is I don't know. I don't know how many teams realistically would A have interests, B, have the assets, and C, Carmelo Anthony would be willing to waive his no trade clause for. So if there's fewer potential available teams, I think that lessens what the Knicks could get back in a trade. And that makes it tough to find a good deal that works for both sides. Well, here's the problem with the whole don't want to put it on, Charlie Rosen. The problem is this. If somebody would have come up to me yesterday and they would have said, who is Charlie Rosen?

Do you know what my answer would have been? That's Phil Jackson's guy. Like, that's the only way I know him. And I get that he's at a, you know, a career in basketball, etc., etc. But that's where Charlie Rosen has been most famous for, like, back in the day, writing Fox SportsPiece, etc. Like, that's what he's known for is being the kind of guy that would go out and would, you know, slander Kobe or whoever else. It always felt like he, you know what I mean? He always felt like he was writing on Phil Jackson's behalf.

And so the idea that that's what I would think of him as, whether that's fair or not, and then him writing, you know, somewhat of a hit piece on Carmelo. I don't know, man. It just, it seems like, and you know Charlie Rosen knows that that's what people think. So, like when he's writing that. I'm not going to say I don't agree, but I'm not going to say that I do either. You have to agree. What are you talking about?

The one thing from that article that really stuck out to me was this quote, it's quote, despite Mello's pouting reluctance, he should have made a firm and full commitment to installing, okay, this is for Jeff Hornacek. Despite Mello's pouting reluctance, he should have made a firm and full commitment to installing the triangle offense. Doing this would bring the structure, the spacing, the movement, and the versatility that the Nix current offense sorely lacks. And that's for, you know, saying Hornacex,

should have committed to the triangle. And that quote kind of does support your theory a little bit, Chris. Support my theory. I mean, listen, I'm not exactly being a detective worker here, okay? I mean, if the guy's been known forever is Phil Jackson's guy, and then he writes a whole article at a hit piece on Carmelo. I think I know. I mean, it just feels like you're trying to make Carmelo so miserable and piss him off so bad

that he's going to be like, you know, eff it. I'll just wave the no trade. Just get rid of me. And it's best for both parties. The funny thing is that Carmelo went out of his way to kind of say those are Phil's words. That was the part that fascinated me. That's so unheard of for a player to do that in front of the media. Well, you'll never be able to convince him otherwise.

You just won't. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's your guy, you know? All right. So that happened over the weekend. So we've been looking for possibly the big name that could be moved. And Carmelo Anthony now seems like one that maybe it would be possible.

The Millsap stuff has cooled off completely, Kevin, and I know you wrote about it once upon a time, and maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't, but they're nine and one in their last, you know, they've won two in a row and they're nine and one in their last 10 games, including that victory over the Knicks that took place yesterday afternoon. But when we thought that Millsap might be the one that could be a needle mover for a Toronto or somebody that would want to make a move for him, you know, the more they win, the more likely I think. think Atlanta would stand pad and just ride this out with him. They're kicking ass, man. They really are. It's cool to see different guys stepping up each game for them. So the past couple games, I think Tim Hardaway scored 20 points like three times this month, maybe four or five times this month.

He goes off, it seems, every other game. And that's what's kind of keeping them afloat is they have different guys going off each game. And if everybody goes off all at once, they really have spectacular nights. The question is, will this be sustainable in the playoffs? I'd lean towards probably not. And that's why I kind of hedge towards the side that thinks they should maybe move Millsap. But you can't really knock them if they do want to ride this out because they do have guys that are really stepping up and individual nights.

I will give you credit where credit is due. You talked about, you cited the Celtics record when they had guys healthy. And now they're eight and two in their last. last 10 games, they've won three in a row, and it seems like every night we're getting another Isaiah Thomas' fourth quarter highlight package. He has just been, there's two guys that recently have just been on a different planet, and that's Wall and Thomas, right? Isn't that fair to say? And the Wizards, by the way, are like 7 and 3 in their last 10, and they have this awesome home winning street going. The Wizards have really gotten things together after a

slow start to the season. And then Boston now healthy, I think, looks a lot like what we thought at the beginning of the season. So what are you thinking on Thomas and Wall recently? So I think, you know, for the Celtics, like you said, Chris, they're just all healthy now. When they're starting five is healthy. They're 16 and 5 this season with, I think they're outscoring teams by around seven points per 100 possessions with that layup. They're just a really, really good and deep team when they're healthy. And Isaiah Thomas is the guy that makes at all work. He's just been absolutely unbelievable. He's averaging over 10 points per game in the fourth quarter. He's, for the entire course of games, he's just been incredibly efficient,

despite an and scoring over 28 points per game. He's having one of the, I think, the funnest seasons I've seen in a while. And as for John Wall, he's, yeah, he's, he's being John Wall. He looks completely 100% healthy from the double knee surgery he had this past summer. And getting credit to the other guys on that team too, though. Bradley Bale has been really good. Otto Porter has been one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA. And granted, he's not a go-to guy, but playing within Autoporter's own defined role, he's just shining. And I think if you're another team looking at him this year, I think in some ways he might kind of be this year as Harrison Barnes.

If you're looking at Autoporter, you're wondering, what will this guy do if he gets an increased opportunity? Because he's just been great for them. That game that they played yesterday, I happened to have it on yesterday afternoon. That was just embarrassing for Portland. I mean, Washington just absolutely maimed them yesterday. Badly, badly. I mean, it was just never a game. And the crazy thing is I went and looked at the standings this morning.

Portland is now seven games under 500, and they're the eight seed. I mean, what? How is that possible? I mean, once you get past seven in the Westwood, there is a seven-game gap between the Thunder and Portland and 18 and 25 right now. I mean, I think we're certainly in a range where the eight-seat in the Western Conference could have a losing record this year. I think there's a real strong possibility of that, and it's like we touched on last week. I didn't see last night's game, so I don't want to speak specifically to that.

But I just don't see how the Lillard McCollum back court will ever be good enough defensively for them to ever have a super long playoff run or to ever reach the level that you would want your team to reach. And that's an NBA finals level. Yeah, you would have to have like Chamberlain and Russell behind them to block everything at the room. You know what I mean? Those two are just revolving doors on the perimeter. And I don't think the point guard is probably the most talented position in today's NBA. and I don't think you can have two poor perimeter defensive guards and be able to sustain playoff success.

Or for that matter, right now we're seeing not even regular season success. Two of those teams that are in the mix for that eight seed still, as we're about at the exact midway point of the season, are Denver and the Pelicans. And interestingly enough, you wrote about those two teams. And the Kings. Huh? I'm sorry?

And the Kings. No, no, no, no, but I'm just talking about the article you wrote because their draft pick, their first round draft pick, their top 10 draft pick for each of those respective teams for, yeah, I'm not trying to besmirch the Kings or throw them out of there. I'm just tying this into your article. Denver drafted Jamal Murray, the Pelicans drafted, Buddy Healed. And you wrote an article talking about how it's just a, it's a tough decision when it comes draft time. Clearly, you had two shooting guards on the board. one was a freshman, one was as accomplished as you could possibly be at Oklahoma. Do you think we can already make a verdict on who made the right pick when it comes to Buddy Heald and Jamal Murray?

No way. No, I don't at all. And that was kind of the message of the article is that after the first month of the season, everybody's looking at that pick and like, oh, my God, Pelicans made such a huge mistake taking the old guy, Buddy Healed over Jamal Murray. because Jamal Murray had a ridiculous shooting month in November. But then in December, the rolls reversed. Buddy Hill won rookie of the month, and he was the guy who was on a tear. And since then, Jamal Murray's been cold and Buddy Heald's been hot.

And by the end of the year, that could flip again. Jamal Murray could go in this ridiculous streak, and Buddy Heald could cool off. And I think there's arguments to be made either way that the Pelicans should have drafted Jamal Murray, considering that he's over three years younger. but at the same time and kind of the point of the article is that growth isn't linear for any prospect or any player for that matter. We've seen players change so quickly during the course of their careers.

So like for Jimmy Butler, for example, if you looked at him after his rookie season, I think you would probably say, okay, 30th pick in the draft, maybe he'll be a solid contributor. and what is he now? He's a stud because growth isn't linear, linear for players. You could look at Austin Rivers with the Clippers. He was a dud until he got to L.A. playing with his dad. And now I think people would agree that he's at least a solid bench contributor. The story changes for guys so quickly, and you can't look at what Buddy Heald or Jamal Murray have done in just the first half of their rookie season and make judgments over what they'll be over the course of their careers, because granted, I think, you know, there's probably a higher probability that Jamal Murray turns out to be the better player. There's still a strong chance that Buddy Heald does turn out to be that guy too,

because we can't underestimate the work ethic of either of these players, or for that matter, the situations they're developing with him. There's so many factors that are hard to account for that I think it's far too premature to make a judgment on either of these two. I was really high on Buddy Heald. I'm not done with him yet. I mean, I'm not selling any stock on him. It takes a while. Hell, if you would have looked at Steph Curry the first, you know, four months of his career.

You know what I mean? It was almost like there were a lot of people that were saying it's a validation of what they thought, right? Oh, he's too small at Davidson. He can't play point guard. You know what I mean? Like, I think honestly, and I'll just be fair, a lot of it is whatever your pre-draft assessment was. so I don't want to give up on guys that I was high on until they absolutely make me give up on them

like the jimmer did you know but like sometimes you're you don't mean you just never know especially with the guys that were so awesome in college and sometimes they pan out and sometimes they don't but I mean you get Buddy healed I had so much fun watching him in college and he he seemed to have the size

his handles were getting better as he stayed there and the truth is the guy can shoot. I mean, end of story. At the very worst, Buddy Heald is going to be an awesome three-point shooter in the NBA. Yeah, you're 100% right about that, Chris. And the fact is that with these guys, they can make unexpected developments in their games. So with Buddy Heald, I think for him, he's going to be a great shooter throughout his career. The two things that he really, really needs to improve on is,

A, his defense, and that's something that I question how much he'll ever be able to improve. I think that could be a problem for him. And B, and this is on the offensive end, is his ball handling. He's improved over the years, but he's still kind of predictable with his moves. His first step isn't great. But the thing is, is again, we can't underestimate these guys that can turn weaknesses into strength or that can turn their strengths into even greater strengths. So there's always a possibility that he makes those strides in his game.

And the flip side of this is, Chris, guys can get off the fast starts and then they can fizzle out. Someone like Adam Morrison, I brought him up in the article. He scored over 20 points six times over his first 16 games of his career. People were looking at him like he was going to be a next great NBA player. And we know how that turned out for him, a two-time champion, but an end-of-the-bench two-time champion. So it's so hard to make judgments on guys early in their careers. and kind of the message of the article in a nutshell is just be patient with these dudes and assess where they are now and figure out what they need to do in order to get to the level

where they can be or where they need to be. No, it does take a while and you just really don't. Listen, after their rookie years, there's a lot of people that probably would have taken O.J. Mayo over Russell Westbrook and look at that now. You know what I mean? Things change fast. OJ. Mayo was like a 19-point scorer his first year in the league. You know what I mean?

and they were both on bad teams but yeah you just you know and then one day you're looking up and OJ Mayo is on Instagram in some valley wearing like a robe and Russell Westbrook's the best player in the world you know like I mean it can have it

so I'm with you on the whole give it time stuff you got to even Jbari Parker people before the season talking about him as a floor suffocating forward can't shoot threes and now he's shooting threes over a 40% clip. Things change quickly. Yeah. All right, we got to talk about the All-Star game because the voting wrapped up last

night in the NBA. We'll get to that on the other side. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Simply Safe. Home Security Service can be such a rip-off. They lock you into long-term contracts where we are stuck writing huge checks with no way out. Honestly, it's robbery in and of itself and it can cost you thousands. But now there's a smarter way to protect your home with Simply Safe home security. With most alarms relying on a phone line, which can be easily cut, SimpliSafe is wireless and portable with cellular connection built in. You get professional monitoring with police dispatch so your home is safe around the clock.

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If we're talking starters, Kyrie Irving's going to win the vote in terms of guards. He had like a monster lead on everybody. So the only debate was in who's going to be second. And I do wonder if it feels like because the fans won't vote it in, Wade probably gets it if it's a fan vote, right? But when it comes to fans slash players slash coaches getting to vote for this, who do you think starts alongside Irving? I'm kind of leaning DeRosan right now.

I have a feeling it will be DeRosen that, gets voted in on the overall vote. Yeah. But at the same time, I don't know what the players are going to do because we've seen some comments from players saying that they're going to vote for, you know, I guess I don't want to say friends, but kind of just random names. And I just don't know. I don't know what to expect, to be honest with you.

I really don't. So I look forward to seeing that vote come out today. Yeah. Or whenever it's supposed to be announced. Yeah. Okay. So probably the Rosen. we're going to say Isaiah Thomas is going to make it

Kyle Lowry's going to make it John Wall's going to make it Is that fair? Sure, I would I would think coaches would pick them for reserves if they're not voted in. I'm just talking about sure things like guys that are like this is not the borderline

I don't think those are going to be arguments right Or they shouldn't be. Yeah, I mean at the same time I think you can say Kyle Lowry too I mean there's a lot of guys you can make arguments for Yeah, well I think I think I Okay, okay, yeah.

I would put Kyle Lowry in as a starter. You would have Kyle Lowry as the starter instead of DeRosen as the backcourt guy? Yeah, I think if I had a vote, if I had a media vote, I would have voted for Lowry and Isaiah Thomas is my starting backcourt. I think I would have put Thomas in there too. And obviously I talked to network last week, Jason Concepcion, and we were kind of hoping that it would be Isaiah Thomas just because this feels like the Isaiah Thomas season, right?

Like he is, this is his peak season. He's averaging like 28 points a game or something. Guys, this is his year. If he's ever going to get to start the All-Star game, it feels like this would be the time. And he's scoring over 28 points per game on fewer than 20 shots per game. That is so rare in league history to be able to put up that amount of points on, I don't want to say a small amount of shots,

but less than it would usually take for a player to get to that level is ridiculous. There's not many guys that have done that in league history. You've got two crazy things going on side by side. You got him doing the 28 points with the super efficiency. And on the other hand, DeRosen doing it with the most anemic amount of threes and forever. Nobody scores 28 shooting as few threes as him. This doesn't happen. In some ways, that's why I give the edge to Lowry, just based on the efficiency.

And Lowry's play as point guard. it'll be a little odd to have two starting point cards in the back court, but that's what the vote is. It's just back court and front court. Okay, front court starters, LeBron James, Janus, aka the Greek freak, and think M. B. gets it? He better. Starting? I would have get, look, I understand Jimmy Butler is probably the more deserving of the two, but look, we're voting for the starters, and I think Jimmy Butler is a total shoole. win to get voted in as a reserve. But I'm not as convinced that the coaches and or players would put Embed in.

And I want Joel El-Beed playing in the All-Star game more than I want just about anything else in this damn world, Chris. I want Joel L'Aid playing in that game. All right. But if we're trying to guess who the starters are, we'd probably say it's Butler. Once you get, if we're just being fair, not what we want, what will happen? I don't know, man. I feel like Embeddead has a really strong surge since that last update for the first.

fan vote, but again, I don't think the media will put them in. I think Butler will get the vote from the media. And the players are the variable here for me, and I really don't know. I don't know what they're going to do. All right. And the guards in the West, it should be hardened in Westbrook. It's probably going to be Curry, though, as a starter? I don't know.

I don't know. Again, it's the same thing with the fan and media vote. What are they going to, I mean, the, sorry, the media and player vote. It should obviously be hard in Westbrook, but for whatever reason, Curry is leading in the fan vote. And then if we're doing a front court, Durant, Leonard Davis? Yeah, I don't think there's any question about that. All right. How many Warriors make it?

Do you think who's got a better chance, Clay or Draymond? Now, according to the voting, they're kind of close, but Clay had a lead in terms of votes. Probably easier to make it in the front court than it is in the back court, wouldn't you say? Because, I mean, you've got to put Paul and Lillard there. whereas you're going to be, the argument's going to be Dremond or these unbelievable players on crap teams, right?

Well, I don't want to say crap, because they still got a chance at the eight seat in Sacramento, but obviously You're slandering the kings. No, but Minnesota's been bad. I mean, they're both, all right, fine. You've got a guy that is an integral part on a team that is 35 and 6,

and you're going to be arguing for him versus guys like cousins and guys like towns, right? Yeah, I mean, it's hard. I think, I think Draymond will get in, and I have a feeling Clay could too, just because they're the Warriors, and I think they're going to get a lot of attention from the player side of the vote. But look, it's very hard to predict, like, who's going to get in because guys drop out too.

I don't know if we're talking about, like, the official announced rosters or the team that ends up playing, but I think it would be cool to see the big four of the Warriors all in there and the big three of the Cavaliers. I think that could be really fun if we saw those guys all go against each other during the All-Star game. Do the Spurs get a second guy? I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think Aldridge will make it, right? I mean, I don't know if he should.

No. He's having a great year, but I'm not sure. But, I mean, if we're talking about the teams that have the great records, there's going to be a spot open because Blake always makes it, but he won't this year. I mean, at the same time, like you mentioned towns, there's young blood there's other new guys that could be making the team

for the first time too All right Is there anybody that you really want to make the team outside of Embed that you'd be disappointed if they didn't make the team Not really

Not really he's the one Not really I don't really care Embed's the one Because look like When Embed's career His Hall of Fame career is over 20 years from now

And we look back and we say Joel Embed was an All-Star every single season in his career. There's not a lot of guys we can look back and say that about. I can't even say that about Tim Duncan or Kobe. The fascinating thing about the way the All-Star voting is done this year is I wonder if the legacy guys are going to get in. We don't have legacy guys anymore, Kevin, right?

Dirk's not going to be available for it. Kobe's gone and Duncan's gone and guys that maybe, and basketball has been better about it, maybe than, say, baseball, where it was like Kyle Ripkin forever or Tony Quinn forever or whatever. But, you know, the legacy guys now, the guys that are just, they're just always all-stars. And so they're just always all-stars are like Carmelo and Wade, right? Like, I don't, it would be Dirk, but Dirk's not around anymore. Or at least this year, he hasn't been available. I don't know how he is around.

Really grim statement. No, he is around. I just mean he has a, he played like five games all year or something. But what about Carmelo and Wade? Of course they shouldn't be in the game. No way they should be playing in that all-Star game. They're kind of the legacy guys, though. Yeah, I know, but look, I get it with Kobe,

putting him in last year with his farewell tour. But Dwayne Wade and Carmelo should have no business playing in the All-Star game. Not this year. So you would think that that's, you would think it's wrong if they took up a spot. If we're just, if we're counting this as, Let's just act like it matters. Because it really doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter.

But I'll be fascinated to see with the way it splits up. Listen, if it's fan voting, Dwayne Wade would be starting the All-Star game. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that he would be starting. Don't slander Dwayne Wade. Look, okay, look, I think we need to figure out we as in the NBA. either we have spots dedicated to legacy guys. I think that would be cool where if a Dwayne Wade or like last year with Kobe or whoever it may be gets into the game on a legacy spot.

How cool would that be if there were like one or two roster spots for legacy players? I think that would be pretty sweet. Instead of having them take up one of the roster spots that does belong to a more deserving player who may have contract implications. for not making the team. I think there's the variables here that I would argue that all-star shouldn't have implications on contract. I think the all-NBA teams matter quite a lot more when it comes to looking back and saying this player was a, I think saying this player was a five-time first-team all-N-A

player matters a whole lot more than the saying this player was a five-time all-star. I would agree with you completely. I always do kind of root for the guys that don't get. the credit that they should deserve. And I tweeted this out last week that I have found myself flipping on, and he just won, you know, the conference award John Wall did for his play as of late. But guys like John Wall, guys like DeMarrozen, like you really got to find them on TV. They're just not on all the time. And the same goes with Isaiah Thomas, frankly, recently.

You know, like I found myself flipping on the Celtics just to watch him. But you've got these great seasons going on. by these guys and it's all, and in fairness, Hardin and Westbrook are kind of, you've got the team in the Warriors that are taking up so much airspace, and then you have Hardin and Westbrook that are taking up so much airspace. And like there's other amazing seasons that are going on, which are hard to, you know, hard to find out about unless you're really searching, right? Because in terms of the general coverage of the NBA, those storylines have dominated completely,

this year. Isn't that fair? Oh yeah, it's definitely fair and I think I think it speaks to the depth of stars in the league. There's there's so much talent on even the bad teams or or the teams that are really pushing for, they're on the playoff bubble. Look, it's the type of thing where the best teams are going to play on national TV. So if you're a hardcore NBA fan, you either need to get league pass and hope it works on a night that you want to watch games or just tune in whenever you can when these guys are on national TV. And look, like you said, John Wall is on a tear, and I hope people are able to see him play because dude's crazy.

I'm glad you brought that up. Dude is unbelievable. I want you to speak on this. All right, so how do you have it? Do you have it through like a PlayStation or something? So with League Pass, it does not work for me at all on any of the TV apps. I can't watch a game without it freezing up. It works for me on laptop, but I don't want to use it on my laptop

because I'm trying to get worked done on my laptop. So the only way I can use it is on iPad or my phone. That's the only apps where I really don't have too much trouble with it. But on TV, it just doesn't work at all. I have seen. Which is really disappointing. Yeah, I have seen so many complaints this year about it. Now, I've got it on direct TV, so it works all time, right?

But I see people that are like cord cutters or they just have league pass and they don't have all the other stuff that's going out. Maybe they don't even have cable anymore. And that this has been, I see people complaining literally. every week about it being a problem. It's a joke. It really is. It's $200 for a product that doesn't work all the time.

Damn. Or it works and then it freezes at a major moment of a game, which ruins the whole experience for you. I think it works fine if you're watching the games when they're not live, but that's the thing is people like to watch sports live. And I think that's really the problem that they need to iron out going forward but the thing is it's been a problem for years so I don't know what the solution is for them I hope I hope they're able to figure out league pass because I think it could be great if it worked but it doesn't

work damn man what do you have like do you do it on like roku or apple TV or something no like they have there's various TV apps like you can you can chrome cast it or you can you some of the like the quote unquote smart TVs they have like an NBA app that you can download onto the TV and that streams it onto the TV. But none of them work for me on the TV, and it only works on a laptop or desktop or iPad. But that's for me. For other people, maybe it has to do with their internet connections or what,

but it hasn't worked for them on those applications either. Well, maybe there's somebody out there that's listening to this podcast now that can help Kevin out. He's at Kevin O'Connor on Twitter. Hey, maybe, who knows? There might be somebody. I'm good. I'm happy with how it works on the iPad.

I have no complaints with that. I'm just speaking for people who want to watch it on TV or whatever, and it doesn't work at all. Well, if there's any kind of suggestions, I'm at Chris Vernon Show on Twitter. He's at Kevin O'Connor, NBA. You could send us along how you have fixed because I see this all the time, literally all the time. It makes me upset for NBA fans that they say the damn thing doesn't work all the time. and that's with PlayStation 4s and whatever else. Anyway, it has worked with mine.

Hey, as long as it doesn't rain. Then it rains. I got no TV. All right, Kevin, Kevin. Thanks for coming on. We'll catch up with you next week. Thank you, Chris. My man.

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