The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 65: Melo Trade Talk With Chris Mannix

Episode Date: January 26, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by The Vertical's Chris Mannix to discuss the trade rumors around Carmelo Anthony (5:00), possible destinations for Melo (10:00), the Cavs' lack of depth (15:00), Brett Brown's positive outlook (22:00), the Sixers' bright future (28:00), and Danny Ainge's many assets (33:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The people have spoken and Jeff Ross has returned for Roast Battle 2. The Four Night Event features top comedians getting verbally violent until just one is left standing. Featuring a star-studded lineup of judges including Snoop Dogg, Sarah Silverman, and Jason Sodecas. This is a battle you don't want to miss. The Four-Night event begins tonight at 9 Central on Comedy Central. And don't miss the live finale on Sunday, January 29th at 9 Central to see who gets crowned the king or queen of cruelty. NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon, joining me today from Yahoo's The Vertical and NBA analyst for CSN New England.

Andy does boxing, and he's got a radio show on NBC Sports Radio. He's the man of a million jobs. Chris Mannix joining me. What's up, Chris? I've got a million jobs, Chris, and I sit around most days walking around in like... No, that's good. That's good. If you can get a bunch of jobs and dress the way you want to.

So, massive story coming out today. You and Adrian Wojornowski co-Roy. vote for Yahoo's the Vertical. A story about Carmelo Anthony. It seemed like last night the articles were coming out that we have reached a breaking point with Carmelo Anthony and the New York Knicks. And now you guys forward that story. And it appears as if it is not a matter of if it is a matter of when Carmelo Anthony is moving on

because they're already talking to teams. Yeah, my report yesterday was told, you know, that those comments, they didn't go. anywhere. They're no longer in the mix. The teams to keep your eye on over these next couple of of weeks, the upper tier team, and maybe even San Antonio Houston as well, they would love to add giving up any of their core. That's what makes a trade like that. So they've been approached and they've been talked to. And look, they've got a lot of young assets, not just young players a couple of years. They've got multiple other couple of years. We've been told, like Carmelo a lot, the coaching staff, likes Carmelo a lot, and would think he'd be a good fit, high-level draft

pick to get Carmelo Anthony. He certainly seems a deal for Carmelo. He was on board with this. I just can't, I can't imagine a pitch. Do you think he would waive his no trade for any of those teams? I do. They wouldn't be this deep in.

I mean, I think it's well-known market. You'd have a chance. Boston might be, Melo, what are they? Are they to give up? So that might be a little bit of a tougher sell, but I still think he'd sign up on that. I mean, last night the Rocket game, I mean, that building was was rocking. You could tell Rex, watching

up television. It's like that out there. Okay, well, let me get first to the Clippers, because one of the things you mentioned is they would like to be able to attain Carmelow without getting rid of any of their core. Presumably that means Paul, Jordan, and Griffin. They don't have anything else. Like, what are

they giving up? What are they giving up? Yeah. They have to include Austin Rivers in any package like that. He's the only player on any level. And they're good, right? So they're good, right? They're good, so they don't have a pick that would be worthy. Like, the Celtics are good and they have picks in the kitty, whereas you get a Clippers pick, so what?

It's a late pick, and, I mean, really, Austin River is going to be the centerpiece of a deal that Nets you, Carmelo Anthony? Like, I can't see that. I mean, they're looking to get young players, even the Clippers' draft picks. I mean, their draft situation, they, a couple of years, they don't have a deal either. So the court with the idea of trading one of that core for, I'm not sure a deal like that works out. Okay. How can Aange, what kind of deal could Aange put together because he's got all of these assets? But which of the young guys do you think they would be willing to get off?

I can't imagine it would be Avery Bradley, but maybe is it Marcus Smart? I wouldn't think they would move off of Jalen Brown. But, I mean, outside of a pick, what kind of players do you think could be put together? that would make sense on the Knicks side? Jay Crowder, potential deal like that. In 18, all three of the, some of them, like I say and Avery Bradley, my million-plus player. Avery Bradley is a $100 million-plus player on the free agent market.

Marcus Smart, who knows when he could be in line for, but if he plays well the next year and a half, you could be looking at a fourth-year-max type of contract in the $60-million-dollar range. You're just not paying three-guards. You could play in 30, 35 minutes, and that's porzdingis. when he was making that deal involving Tyson's opportunity to sign up to get Jay Crowder back with the Knicks. I think he'd welcome a chance to get Crowder in Boston.

But look, if you get Carmelo and all of a sudden you don't need a small forward that that much anymore, they would move on, I think, from him as well. Would you do that if you're Boston? Would you move off of Smart and Crowder if it meant you could get Carmelo? I would. I would, you know, anything after that, you know, Brooklyn's going to probably a top three pick. This is a loaded draft this year. loaded with point cards, and Boston might need to make a deal to get quality draft at the top this year.

You don't want to deal out of that spot, but over the years from other teams, those might be in play, but just in dealing more than that. So then you would have a theoretically, a four-man lineup of Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Carmelo Anthony, and Al Horford. Who's the fifth guy that plays with them if you've moved off of Crowder? And Amir Johnson, the power forward kind of full-time when you can. I had Al Orford on my podcast recently, and no way, I'm not a center. He doesn't want to be a... Look, I think Boston's also going to be proactive. Andrew Bogan, these aren't sexual.

It will give you a... And if you look at Boston's biggest weakness, it's not having that big man. I mean, they're getting destroyed on the boards. Their defense has suffered of it. They badly need. I wouldn't say if they can make this deal... And I think it's interesting. Obviously, you're super plugged into what's going on in Boston.

You had mentioned in passing earlier that the coach's... staff in Boston would be on board that they are fans of Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, that's what I've been told that they're, you know, not just right over the last 20 years. You get to the playoffs. You've got his own office. They don't, it is great. And what he does defense on that team, but you. I was one of those.

Listen, we just did the podcast on Tuesday. I did it with Kevin O'Connor. And I was on board with the Celtics making a move for Carmelo. And I said, I don't know, you know, if it moves the needle to where they would knock off Cleveland, but I could 100% if they made that deal, I could foresee a game seven in Cleveland, you know, where they could take them to the brink. And I certainly would have, I would certainly, if they could make that move, would certainly have them in the Eastern Conference finals.

And at that point, then, you know, all bets are off. You never know as long as you can get there, but I do think that they would then become the favorite to meet Cleveland in the Eastern Conference Finals. And I don't know if that's so right now. Yeah, I mean, I think the Etcher's sketched on Bought Outer's Red Line who could become incredibly valuable to the Cabalago. Even Derek Rose in New York Knicks, if they trade much about wins and losses in the aftermath of that.

One of those guys, that's going to improve their team a lot. In addition, Geary out there is not incredibly aggressive over the next few weeks, especially watch the way Cleveland's, they're vulnerable. They're there. They're there not able to the taking. But if you improve that Raptors team, you put yourself in a great position. Bill Sapp is just with a doctor order for that team. I know they want to hold on to some of their young players and Powell,

but Kyle Lowry is going to be 31 years old in about a month. The time is now. The window is open with more of a sense of urgency and go out and get that impact player. How about LeBron's very public GMing? What do we make of it? Well, you know, it's almost like, and I hate to get like sort of pull something,

then you ask the fault. LeBron has admitted that, you know, I mean, you get a lot of money, and that would have absolutely exploded, $50 million. in luxury tax penalties alone last year, and they're on pace right around $30 million in tax penalties this year. So he knows they got totally screwed by Mo Williams, who retired abruptly right before the season started. Hey, Felder is not getting you back to something real in the trade. This team has spent all its cash and all its capital on keeping their stars intact and their stars well paid.

That's fine, but this is the byproduct of it. This is the price you pay if you can be out there. But he knows he's a smart guy. he knows that there really isn't a legitimate path to do it. Okay, well, then Griffin kind of, I don't want to say, fires back, but when asked about it, he's got to speak on it, and he says this team's good enough to win a championship as it is, which I think most people believe, right?

Or no. Yeah, no, I think they believe it. And look, they did. Kyle Corver makes them better. Kyle Corber on that team is better than Mike Dunleady on that team. Calacorver is a bona fide, elite three-point shooter, whereas Mike Dunleady right now, LeBron just kind of has to keep it quiet for a couple of weeks

and see what happens after the February trade deadline. See what happens when the Darren Williams of the world and the Rondos hit the trade market because then Chris, then it's on him. Then he has to go out there and be the college trying to get these guys to commit to coming to a place where there will be a backup where they can get big minutes and get ready for another contract. So you think that's how the Cavs attain the players that they will inevitably attain, that it will be.

I don't, yeah. Yeah, it's not going to be a. trade. I don't think there's any other. I don't think there's any way to do it. I mean, show me a scenario. I mean, I know that ends often overvalue that, but even making Cleveland fans can't if you get me this. I mean, you know, Channing Fry is not going to net you back something or back something real. You're just, you're not in a great position to make any type of legitimate trade and they're going to have to wait until that deadline passed. Well, it's crazy too, because when the Cleveland stuff came up with like Carmelo,

it's like, okay, for what? Like, the only thing they could feasibly give up is Kevin Love, and they ain't giving up Kevin Love? No, no, they're not. I mean, you know, the Kevin Love trade rumors are never going to die. I think Kevin has done a great job, but just kind of accepting them. I mean, I think it helps when you get yourself a championship ring. You get yourself a max contract and you're having yourself a great year. So, you know, he's in a good position, but you're going to trade Kevin Love for Carmelo.

How does that really help you? None of the deals that are kind of, you know, trade machine type of deals make any sense to be it to happen with them over the next few years. week. How about what's going on in Chicago? I mean, we're reaching that point in the season, and I said this a couple of days ago, where it's like, all right, I'm not going to make any sweeping judgments. You see all these teams going through it. Toronto's lost five games in a row. LeBron's coming out after the game saying, we need an FM playmaker. I mean, there's just this level of frustration, and I think you could fill in probably 10 different teams and have the

conversation, what's wrong with blank, right? Right. And so, but the big frustration, at least, last night was out of Dwayne Wade, who seemed like he reached the breaking point with his Chicago Bulls team and basically said, I know Jimmy's doing his job and he's bringing everything to the table, but there's a lot of guys on this team that basically the losing doesn't hurt. And so Wade was out in the forefront last night. I mean, it's everybody taking a turn with being disgusted with their team's performances. but what do you make of Wade last night,

becoming demonstrative wholeheartedly for the first time? It was calculated because not only did Wade, and he said kind of the stress of the Bulls players, but this again comes back. We speculate on stuff, but I understand that there are machinations and interworkings of a team that I'm not privy to that affect the team more than I really understand. But the Bulls, you say, that team can't shoot.

That team should not have signed Rajan Rondo. This is a case where the media and everyone that looks at the Bulls and say, they're not going to be very good, was exactly right. Now, we didn't anticipate Nicole Amaritich not having a productive season or continuing to build on his success over the last couple of years. Doug McDermott, the concussions, that's affected his ability. This team has been bad for the reasons we thought they'd be bad. They're not a very good ball movement team.

They're not a very good three-point. play the style. Is he the first to go? We are more than halfway through the season for every team. We've all played over 41 games. But we have not had a coach get fired yet. Is Hoyberg the one? I don't know how

by firing him. I mean, they let go and they bring in Hoyberg and he will let him go, at least not until the end of this season, not with the roster that they have to put together because that would be an indictment of what they've done up until this point. I mean, Alvin Gentry has not been fired.

first year. You know, there really isn't a, this might be the first year we've had in a while where you don't see a head coach fired at all during the season. It might be the first time in forever. I mean, guys get fired every single year, but you do have so many that are new to their job, or at least in the first couple of years of their job. Yeah, the teams that are bad. The teams that are supposed to be bad.

The Litters there, I mean, it was ugly watching that team, you know, try to play with Luke Wald wasn't playing even worse defense wherever they're at, even in the Eastern conference. are bad, but nobody had an expectation. The heat don't care because they need a young player to be at this point in the season. Yeah. How crazy is it what's going on with the Philadelphia 76ers? Now 8 and 2 in their last 10 games, and they even won these last couple without Joel Embed.

I mean, this is crazy. Yeah, and look, I give Brett Brown a lot of credit. I mean, coached in the NBA, three years of issues of Okapoor, who's been in and out of the rotation to Well, this lot of credit for it, but I give Brown a ton of it. Now, he's starting in, you know, after the All-Star break, he's going to get Ben Simmons back as well. This essential, not just to be a team

fighting for a play-up spot this year, which they really are. They're like five games out right now of the final playoff spot. But next year, they look like a playoff become that type of team, Chris. That's when you can really start getting free. You're not going to get them for a bottom-feeding team and say, I've got Joe Lamb-B, I've got Ben Simmons. We're a good team. Come with us. You're going to get there for your

playoff team. And now you're a playoff team. You've got young point guards. You've got young point guards and other players that will want to play there and fill in holes that you have. I've seen him up close a couple of times already this year, and I thought it was one of the most amazing things in all of sports to watch him coach, because if you just watched him, you would never, ever know that he's lost a million games over the last three years. He coaches every possession hard. He is still always teaching.

Like the losing, he's just a – I don't. I want to say immune to it, but it has not beaten him down like it would anybody, including myself. Like, I can't imagine having to go to the pregame press conferences and the postgame press conferences and going in so short-handed all the time. And he still, you would never know any different. I'm with you on the Brett Brown stuff. He is an amazing case study for what he has been through the last couple of years.

And so I like watching him get to win. Yeah, to watch him of all. as a coach. It was, you know, to run the team. And later, Brian Colangelo is hired to be the GM. And you bring in the coach and let it bother you. But if he didn't, he persevered to coach your hands down. I don't think it's close right now.

I've written that in recent weeks. But Brett Brown, as this team has spread upward, he is right there, top three, top four in the conversation. All right, Mannix. I'm going to ask you about Sam Hinky next. But first, I want to remind everybody, if you're playing fantasy for money and not spending hours a day doing it, You absolutely should be on Draft.

Draft is a simple daily fantasy app. You can do snake drafts just like the ones you do at the beginning of your season-long season. They last for one night and they only take minutes to complete. On Draft, you can play for free or better yet play for money. There are no pros, no salary cap, and get this, your chances of winning money on Draft are almost three times better than other fantasy sites. Download Draft now. Just search Draft in the App Store, and it'll come up.

First, be sure to enter the promo code NBA show when you download, and you'll get a 100% bonus up to $600 when you deposit. Just search draft in the app store, and be sure to enter the promo code NBA show. All right, Chris. Has Sam Hinky been 100% validated in the process? It's answer is yes. Flash in the pen tender seven years, and they're not there yet. Eden Simmons, they'll have their own picks, and they have a glut of draft picks

thanks to shrewd deals from Henke in years to come. So I found the last couple of years of the process to be intolerable, but you can't argue with the results. Here is Philadelphia exactly where Sam Hankey wanted them to be. So it's tough to swallow,

but yeah, I think he is validated. I think so too. And I wonder if I'm a, you know, if I'm a struggling team, And if I'm a struggling organization, do I look and say, look at what he just pulled off. Now, you've got to swallow that pill for a long time. But we are a results business, right?

What results did it yield? And I don't think they nailed everything along the way. They clearly didn't. They didn't nail everything. But they nailed enough to where the future looks extremely bright right now for maybe a long, long time. And we haven't even seen Simmons yet, like you mentioned. Yeah, and look, it is just Summer League, but he dominated Summer League. It's 20 years that dominated Summer League against real NBA players,

and his ability is kind of listed, but if you can make him your primary card playmaker, get yourself a sharp shooting point guard and have a backboard loaded with shooters, you are going to create havoc for teams offensively. You are going to be, you know, versatile and dangerous every single time down the four. Yeah, that's for sure. And who knows? They are right now, as it stands, We can imagine this, just given how everybody's all bunched up,

they're only four and a half out of the eight seed right now. Yeah, they're right there. And, you know, would then be playing like he is. And look, they might make a deal before the deadline. I mean, they've been sort of sniffing around other point cards. Ricky Rubio is on the market. I'm not, you know, if you're going to play Simmons, you know, you can get him to soda.

Maybe they can go out and get somebody like that. You can add to the core. You know, they have the potential to upgrade. And look, though, that Eastern Conference final playoffs, It's not like anybody is seizing it and kind of holding on. At eight, but, Chris, they might get higher in that postseason bracket. How crazy would that be? I mean, to see them, I mean, listen, I know if we could pencil it in right now,

how great would it be to see a Sixers Cleveland first round series? That would be the best. Well, I tell you what, I mean, you know, nine teams. I mean, even, you know, look at the entire Eastern Conference roster mix. If you're saying, if you're like, if you're a guy that you can buy an NBA team in the Eastern Conference. and you're going to be the end of it. Then you have to tell the team. Who do you buy it there?

I mean, I guess you buy Cleveland first because LeBron and chance to win the next three. But after that, whose roster and whose future is more appealing the Philadelphia 76ers right now? They have the potential for 10 years to be among the more dominant teams in the East. And that's exactly what Sam Hanky wanted to do. I like Milwaukee, too. I do.

A few more holes, though. I mean, they're playing Malcolm Progson at Point Garb. I get you, though, Chris, if you give me Jabari and the Greek freak, I mean, and I'm, and I know I can keep them. I mean, they're both. I think, listen, Greek freak's obviously going to start the All-Star game. I think Jabari Parker is going to be an All-Star. He's close this year.

Yeah, he's got a real shot. He's got a real shot. I don't think he'll make it this year, but I certainly think in the coming years, Jabari Parker will make All-Star teams. I agree, but let me ask you this. If you could take right now, and again, there's a lot of unknowns, and Janus, sport, M.B. and Ben, And Simmons, who do you take?

God, that's unbelievable. I want to see Simmons, right? I want to see Simmons first. Yeah. God, I hate to even bring up the injuries with Embedd, but it is what it is. You know what I mean? That's been there. You know what I mean?

Is Ambid going to give me, you know, am I going to get 75 games out of him, you know, five of the next six years? They still got him. I wouldn't be too worried. about it, though, Kurt. I mean, you know, I mean, obviously, it's never going to go away, but we've seen a lot of big men get open to Yao Ming. But the reason Yao Ming, you know, he declined. It wasn't because of what Houston was doing. It was freaking going back, you know, people over there not really came to the long term. Philadelphia still has

Embedit on administrative restriction this year when he probably doesn't need to be really anymore. They're going to be incredibly as well as they possibly can. I understand the fear of M.B. had a recurrence, but it doesn't terrify me, that's for sure. And to your point, you know, a 31-year-old Mark Gassau has come back from, you know, a serious foot injury last year and is playing the best basketball of his life. Yeah, exactly. And Gassal is a far more lumbering player than Embed is. He's more of a fluid.

I think he's okay. I think having gotten over and not had a recurrence for a while now until he gets back from his foot, they're in pretty good shape. You could look up in five, like in terms of that discussion that you and I just had, you could look up in five years and those are two of the best five players in the NBA. That's not crazy to think at all. Yonis and N. No.

No, I completely agree. And look, if you're talking about two guys in positions, I mean, Janus is a 6-11 point guard. And he's more of a point guard than Ben Simmons is and maybe more than Ben Simmons can ever be because Yonis can do, I think, more offensively off the dribble than Ben Simmons is. And it's still growing who are redefining the center position in their 15 years ago. I mean, these guys, and when was the last time we ever saw that? I mean, ever, I can't remember it. So, you know, these two guys are going to transcend their positions for years to come.

All right. Last thing, Mannix, you and Adrian Wojianowski wrote that article about the Carmelo Anthony talks earlier, so I'm going to wrap this back around to this. Percentage chance Carmelo Anthony is wearing a Knicks uniform in a month? I would say about 25% at this point. You know, the Knicks are just engaged with, you know, I'm not in those meetings, but in talking to people that have been made aware of these meetings and the substance of them, there seems to be activity, a fine deal that works. He's clearly not going to be a part of long-term system, a mix of young assets that they can get that. We have always known that Danny Aange was loaded for Bair and that eventually he would get a star level.

player with what he has, you know, he's got all of this, he's got all of these assets. How badly do you think the Celtics want him? You know what I mean? Because they would, it just all seems rather natural. Here's the team with all of these assets that you would want to get if you were moving off Carmelo. But I guess the point is, you know, is Boston really going to be willing to give something serious up in order to attain him?

How badly do you think they want him? You know, as bad as they'd say wants a Blake Griffin. or one of the Golden State Quartet if they were available. So they're not going to break the bank and give up the core pieces of these assets, specifically those Nets pick to get this deal done. They right away, and they're held at the same time. The collective bargaining agreement, every executive out there is keenly aware of it. The collective bargaining agreement is going to make collecting stars

over the next few years they're banking on in the coming years franchise players. I cannot wait to see how this all plays out. Great reporting. Manix are the man. Thanks, buddy. Hey, time, man. That's going to do it for the ringer NBA. Show if you dig what you're hearing. Head over to iTunes, give us a rating and review, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. If you're playing fantasy for money and not spending hours a day doing it,

you absolutely should be playing on draft. Draft is a simple daily fantasy app where you can do snake drafts, just like the ones you do at the beginning of your season-long league. There's no pros, no salary caps, and get this. Your chances of winning are almost three times better than on other fantasy sites. Enter the promo code NBA show, and we will match 100% of your first deposit. Download Draft from the App Store now.