The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 68: Stu Jackson

Episode Date: February 2, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by former NBA executive vice president and current NBA TV analyst Stu Jackson to discuss his induction into the Pac-12 Men's Basketball Hall of Honor (5:00), Rick Pitino pioneering the 3-point shot (8:00), quality control of NBA gameplay (13:00), and whether he would have suspended Draymond Green in the Finals (18:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Google Play, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. And joining us today on the show is Stu Jackson. He's a former coach, GM, and executive vice president. president of the NBA, you can now see him on Turner Sports. Turner Sports NBA analyst, Stu Jackson. You can see him throughout the season on NBA TV's signature Nightly Studio show Game Time, providing news, analysis, highlights from around the league, and NBA TV's fan night is going to feature James Hardin and the Rockets hosting the Magic next Tuesday night.

And Stu Jackson joins us now. Hey, Stu, thanks for coming on, man. Hey, Chris, thanks for having me. Pleasure to be on. So before, I want to go to this step by step because there's a lot I want to learn about you. First things first, congratulations on the Pac-12 Hall of Fame. I read that you're going to be inducted soon. Yeah, they must have run out of candidates or something. But, no, it's quite an honor. And it's very excited to hear from the Pac-12.

And it's interesting when I actually played in the league, it was the Pac-8 at that time. teammates were in ahead of me, but it's... How'd you end up there? How'd you end up playing in the Pac-12 at Oregon, right? Yeah, it was interesting. You know, I came out of high school in the early 70s, the ACC, in the Pac-8, who I knew of back in the early 70s. I mean, if you, you know,

Hart King who went to tennis player, you didn't consider playing there. So a lot of Eastern and Midwestern play. It made perfect... Had you ever been west of the Mississippi? No. I had never flown on a... plane until I took a recruiting visit, you know, but at that time you could take a recruiting visits. You could take as many as you wanted, Chris. So I took as, it seemed like I was going every weekend of anything that I was used.

And there you go, right? You're going to get in the Pack 12 Hall of Fame, so it obviously all worked out. I wanted to ask you about something that actually an NBA front office member mentioned it to me about two weeks ago, and when I knew I was having you on, I was like, I've got to ask about this, because you were at Providence with Petino. And I was talking about Mike Dantone. It was actually when I was watching a Houston game. And, you know, they were shooting like whatever it is, 40 plus threes a game.

And then you watch Golden State and they shoot this ridiculous amount of threes. And I'm talking about how this has all happened recently and the way the NBA is going. And that shot becoming so much more important than it used to be. And said front office exec says to me, you know who never gets credit for this is Petino. and he was so far ahead of his time regarding the three-point shot. And now going back, I look, you were on the staff at the Providence team that Patino took to the final four. And it's crazy, right? We're talking like almost 30 years ago.

But if you can, just like walk me through that. And this whole idea that people don't typically bring up Patino when it comes to really using the three-point shot as a weapon. And yet, I mean, it's almost 30 years ago. You guys pulled that off. Yeah, Chris, you know, you've really done your homework. And, you know, that fact about Rick Petino is to anyone that will, he really was the pioneer. And I can tell you, I can remember like it was yesterday, you know, have a lot of meeting. Remember the day.

He brought us into the sun because he liked to meet the sauna. He liked to work out and then have a meeting in the sauna to see who would, you know, drop out first. I remember to this day, he sat down on a magnetic board with a pen and showed us the math. And he said, listen, this team, if we take X amount of three-point shot, then taking X amount of shots and shooting 40%. In our fingers to our head, he was right. And, you know, that decision to play the way that he wanted to play was style of play and to turn you over. but when we came down offensively, we played basketball inside and out,

but we were looking for the three-point shot, and we took an abundance of them and made it abundance of them. And it was a primary reason that allowed that Providence College team to eventually go on to the final four with a team that was talented, but not as talented as most teams that we played. You know, led by the last year, you know, all of these guys were prolific three-point shooters, and that was their mission and their objective.

was to take as many as they could in lieu of taking a two-point shot. And to this day, that guy, Rick Petino, is the pioneer of, you know, the early analytics. Did you guys get criticized the same way that an NBA team still to this day? I mean, you will find some analysts that say, yeah, it's all fine and dandy that Houston takes a million threes, or even with Golden State, right? A jump shooting team, there is still, in some quarters, a sneer towards it. I mean, we're talking almost 30 years ago. Did you face that same level of criticism when you guys were shooting all those threes playing in the Big East?

Chris, not at all because, you know, again, the pioneers of playing that way, it was something that was new. You know, fan, you know, data on fans to this day, you know, fans feel the three-point shot is just an exciting shot. So we had a collegiate team that was playing an exciting style of play, taking three-point shot that fans love, making them win in some games. We faced no criticism, and we were like, you know, the innovators and new kids on the block. Today, I think some teams take criticism in the NBA primarily because we're getting, you know, our teams now, all the analytics. And we're getting to the pressure point where we're beginning to maybe homogenous for lack of, you know, know, because everybody's doing something new, it was innovating.

Why do you think it took so long for the NBA to catch on? Because if we go back in time on that staff that you were a part of, it clearly worked, and a team that was at a talent disadvantage ended up making the final four. So the proof was in the pudding. You guys made a final four of Providence without five-star recruits, per se, and yet it took so long. I suppose, you know, Patino did it with his Kentucky teams, but those Kentucky teams were loaded with talent and so people could discard it, but they could say, yeah, less attention

is paid to the style of play when you do it with the best players, I suppose. But why do you think it took so long for the NBA to catch on? Well, it's interesting. You know, throughout the early 90s into the late 90s, the NBA was back then. It was really the NBA game, and it came to a grinding halt because oftentimes six take away people's athleticism, rebounding-wise, and, you know, a hand check. So there wasn't this opportunity to get out and rebound and run because teams just in the game, they were not even entertaining thoughts about opening up the game.

And it really, when the NBA truly opened up the NBA battle, you know, and allowed a little bit more freedom of movement. And when that happened, the NBA teams then start to make personnel decisions. I say that, put more of an emphasis, the NBA game just because of the rules changed

because of the personnel decisions. Whereas in college, we made those personnel decisions right away. We just wanted guys to get sure. It just took the NBA a little bit longer, and then teams began to make those personnel decisions, and this is what you have today. You know, the Golden State Warriors, a Houston Rockets, the Cleveland Cavaliers, the San Antonio Spurs,

which are these wide-open free, which is fun to watch. All right, Stu, I want to ask you about levying fines and punishments in the NBA. But first, today's podcast brought to you by, Sherry's berries. There's no one like your Valentine. This year treat them to an unforgettable gift that's as unique as they are. You love your girl and you want to get her something good and you're going to be stressed out. Don't be the guy that goes to like Walgreens and grabs the last, you know,

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Help support our show by supporting our sponsors. Use my code NBA show. After your stint of coaching and general managing in the NBA, you take this job in the NBA front office and one of your primary jobs as being the guy that has to hand out fines and punishments. What is that job like? Because clearly we even go back to last year's finals. many people believe that it was

dictated by the fines slash punishments that were levied. There's still a lot of people that run around saying if Draymond Green wouldn't have been suspended for game five, it might have been a different outcome last year. Whether that's true or not, it's a point of view. You were the guy that was once in charge of

said fines and punishments. What is that job like? What all does it entail? Well, which is now held by the penalty around the game and things that are as mundane, in the stanchions or the basket to the rims or, you know, how the floor is painted and, you know, the benches and how many people can sit there, how many people can't, how many coaches

you have on the bench, or at least during my time, I was on committee with making recommendations changes. The game, like the rules package in 2001 and then again in 2004. So you could have a direct game just by, you know, the rules. And then there are sort of like uniform, you know, the play. referees in terms of how the game was called. You know, you throw all that in and maintain a level of the corner. Make the game safe come to work every day.

You get into fighting and the heart of the job, but not the essence of the job. But I will say this. My view was all in a game in that short confines of, you know, 94 feet by some leniency. Is there anything that has been established or implemented since you left that job that you feel like you would have fought against? Well, that's interesting. I, no, I fought against, you know, is a little bit strong. I mean, there have been some times where, you know, some decisions have been made that I didn't necessarily agree with.

But, you know, that's the NBA's prerogative, and I'm no longer in that position and don't have the opportunity to make those recommendations. But by and large... Give me an example. Well, I think the biggest one, and that's a fair question, it was the Draymond Green where, you know, that particularly, and again, this is my opinion, not the NBA's opinion, that that contact, and the flagrant foul rule really is a contact rule, that contact was set, it endangered another player, and I thought as a way to deter future actions by that player kicking players that it need to be dealt with a little bit more severely.

But again, that's my opinion. But, you know, and I probably wouldn't have recommended that he not be suspended, that he would have been suspended, and unfortunately he wasn't, which in that series. Do you think that it, does your opinion change given the stakes of the game? Because many fans go, listen, there should not be, you know, suspensions the same way there are during the season when it gets to the highest level, to the point. where it could feasibly dictate who holds the trophy up? I think during that part of the season,

it's even, you know, the season in the playoffs, the level of aggressive in the game, the intensity and competitiveness of the game, if you move the line during that time, you know, bad things can really happen. And that's what I always, what you want to try, one that, you know,

had minimal physicality, to it because you know that during between offense and defense is minimal and certainly much less than during the regular season. I'm peak game to game. You've got a day's preparation in between games. So again, something bad to happen. So when you do have something bad happen, you have to be torrented. And, you know, so you don't, so it doesn't happen again.

Because, you know, you've got all these teams in the playoffs playing all these games and there's so much at stake in a game that directly affects the brand of the NBA, and at the end of the day, that's what you want to protect. That's the safety of players. Last question, based on that, do you think that your opinion on that is because of the malice in the palace and the NBA, for that matters, opinion on things like that. Because when you talk about it being high voltage and something bad could happen, it feels like that would be the last example that people would come up as something catastrophic,

happening within a game, is your opinion on these things and dealing with them swiftly and firmly almost shell shock from that whole thing taking place, which is now over a decade ago? Well, it's interesting. Even prior to the mouth and the palace, that's the thing we maintained. But certainly that was a wake-up call. I mean, to have that happen in any professional sport, an incident of that magnitude that raises to the You know, that could never happen again. And so the answer to your question, in short,

lawsuit was, you know, was that way before. And, you know, as the NBA or a lover of the end... He is Stu Jackson. He is a Turner Sports NBA analyst. You can see him throughout the season on NBA TV's signature nightly show game time, providing news highlights and analysis from around the league. Remember next Tuesday night, it's going to feature the beard. James Hardin hosting The Magic.

The Rockets hosting The Magic on NBA TV's fan night. Stu, you're the man. Thanks so much for coming on the show today. Hey, Chris, thank you for having me. Really enjoyed it. Appreciate it. That's going to do it for today's Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes,

and we will talk to you tomorrow.