The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 72: The Serge Ibaka Trade, Kevin Love's Injury, and Nikola Jokic With Kevin O'Connor

Episode Date: February 14, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss the top 10 story lines of the NBA, including the Serge Ibaka trade (5:00), Kevin Love's injury (10:00), Mike Budenholzer backing Paul Millsap (14:00), Nikola Jokic's breakout performance (22:15), LaMarcus Aldridge's All-Star snub (34:00), the newly coined NBA G-League (41:00), and 'John Wick 2' (44:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Tuesday is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com. Kevin! We got trades, Chris. Oh, buddy. Well, what we're going to do today is we're going to go through the 10 stories of the week in the NBA. And even when we're meeting up this morning, they rapidly changed. In fact, number one and number two on our list, both got added this morning.

So let's start it off with number one, which is the trade that goes down this morning, as reported by Adrian Worgionowski. Serge Abaka, who had been rumored to possibly be moved to maybe they thought maybe the Raptors, maybe the Heat were some of the names that were out there. He did, in fact, get moved to the Raptors. Sergei Baca to Toronto for a, for Terrence Ross and a first-round pick in the upcoming NBA draft. I hate this trade, Kevin. I hate it. For Orlando.

Really? For Orlando? Yes. I mean, how did they – listen, man, this is what ends up happening. We know they attained, I hated the first Ibaka trade, which is Oladipo and the 11th pick in the draft, and Erson Ilysova. So now they have basically turned Oladipo, Subonis, that was the pick, and Erson Ilyasova into Terrence Ross and what, a 20-something draft pick? Yeah, 2017. So it's this year.

That's pathetic. Look, they screwed it up. They did screw up. They screwed up last year by trading for Ibaka and Oladipo in the deal for Ivaca in the first place. So I look at this for them as like, okay, we screwed up, time to get what we can for a guy who's going to become a free agent this summer. So in that sense, I mean, look, it's not great, but Terrence Ross is at least locked up for another two years at a low value. So you get a guy for two more years while you're in your whatever phase you're in. It's hard to tell if they're rebuilding or if they're trying to make the way.

playoffs or what based on their moves that they've done the past two years but i think i think they just need to go in a full rebuild man and i think hopefully for them i baca trading him for this package as a start of that but this is great for toronto though what do you mean a full rebuild they've been rebuilding for 10 years yeah yeah but yeah i know look that's the thing though is is it's i liked what they were doing up until really last summer up until last summer when they traded for ibaca it's like what are they doing like why are they making this push all of a sudden goals of the playoffs, it's like, take the slow rebuild. And they went away from that. And I think that ultimately has really hurt them. Well, like, they had, all right, they had Oladipo, they had Evan

Fornier, they had Vucevic, right? Like, and then they go and they get Bionbo and Jeff Green and Sergei Baca. Like, they, they... Jeff Green stinks. All right, they are clueless. They literally, they are clueless. They go and they get, you know, Frank Vogel in the offseason. And so I suppose they then decide, okay, we want to win now, right? Because Frank Vogel, it's not like he was without offers. He could have coached probably multiple different places, Memphis included. But they probably sat him down and was like, okay, we're going to go for this. And so they go and they sign Bionbo. They give Evan Fornier the huge contract. They go and sign Jeff Green to a ludicrous contract. They end up

marginalizing Vucevic. They move off of Oladipo. They got no idea what they're doing. And I know it hasn't been 10 years, but honestly, since Dwight left there, like, they got no plan. No plan. And now they just moved to Baca for, you can't get more than Terrence Ross in a 20s pick for Serge Abaka? I guess that's the best value you can get. Huh? He's a free agent, though.

I get it. I get that he's a free agent, but you don't think that other teams want to sign him? Look, with Orlando, like I said, I liked what they were doing up until last year, and I think that's where they kind of lost their way. And I think, look, I think Rob Hennigan's a good general manager, but there's a report in December that he was on the hot seat. I've heard similar. So I'm usually when a GM is on the hot seat, a team would make a push for the playoffs, like a save your ass trade. Like, shit, we get to do something to get into the playoffs.

But in this case, they're moving towards trading away arguably one of their best players in Ibaka. So I'm wondering if maybe there's now an understanding in the organization that, look, we got to rebuild. We got to get what we can for these guys and retool our roster. If that's the case, then I think that's good for them. Granted, yes, Ibok is a bigger name, but he's still not the same level defensive player he used to be. I think he's kind of falling off a little bit. And he's a free agent, man.

That's the big thing. He's going to get a big money this year. I get it, but you knew that when you made the deal last summer. That's why it was a dumb trade. That was a dumb trade last year. That's fine. This one is like admitting your initial dumb mistake. No, no, no. You cannot compound a dumb trade with an even dumber trade.

This is asinine. Like, I would just sit there. Look, I can't look like this big of an idiot. Like, I can't turn Oladipo, Sabonis, and Erson Ilyasova into Terrence Ross and a late first round pick. Like, that can't be. So if it is a dumb trade, guess who's a big winner here, Toronto, right? Of course they are. Of course they are.

Because they got a chance to make a move now. And you know, they were making this move before we even realize. let's move the number two that Kevin loves out for six weeks. And Toronto had really been faltering as of late. You know, they were pretty well locked into the two-seed. I think they're down to five now. They're four and six in their last ten games. I know DeRosen's been banged up, but they had kind of lost their way recently.

And I do think this helps them. I don't think there's any question this helps them. Oh, there's no, no doubt about it that it does help them. I think granted Ibaka isn't the same. same level player he was a couple years ago in Oklahoma City. He's still a really, really good player. He's going to be by far their best four. They've been starting Jacob Pertl recently next to Valenciunis. And now, like, you got a nice, really strong front court of Valentutus, Ibaka, Carol, and then obviously Lorry and De Rosen in the back court. That's a six starting five.

Well, hold on now. I love Patterson. Yeah. Patterson still get minutes, though. Yeah, no, no. No, no. I'm saying it. Now I've got a rotation of Ibaca and Patterson. at my four. It's really good. And both go all the way out to the three point line as to create space for those two guys that are fantastic and getting to the basket

and especially getting to the free throw line. Exactly, man. And that's the big thing. So for big parts of the season they were playing, like the rookie Pascal Syakim, and he's a good rookie. I like him a lot, but he's not quite ready for that playoff stage.

So now you got a rotation that goes, nine deep or so, eight or nine deep depending on how you want to structure your playoff rotation. And it's really strong, man. Like those 10th, 11th guys don't matter as much in the playoffs, but they're really, really strong from one to eight or nine. And with Kevin Love's injury, I think this is an opportunity for them to potentially maybe knock them off. I mean, I still think Cleveland would be the favorite, even if Kevin Love's not 100%.

But the margin for error for them is a lot slimmer than it would be. had he been healthy. So this could be a lot tighter than people think it is once the playoffs roll around. In the same manner that Abaco was a great fit with the guys in Oklahoma City, that's what he is in Toronto. In fact, it is not unlike that where they play a lot of isolation basketball, maybe to their discredit down the stretch of some games. Instead of moving the ball, they are so perimeter-oriented and they are so reliant upon those two guys. and Carol has never emerged as a third wheel. You know, even when I was at a Toronto game earlier this year,

and I was talking to some people that travel with them all the time, it was like they don't know who the third guy is every night. You know, it's not that they can count on every night. I think they found that in this, right? I don't think there's any question. Ibaka's going to be the third guy. And he's a guy that because he can stand in the corner, which I know he kind of resented at some point in Oklahoma City,

but that he can be out in the corner, you're just creating, you just make all that space for Derozen and Lowry. And so it's interesting, much like it was a fit in Oklahoma City, I think Abaka's a great fit there. Yeah, I mean, that's the nice thing about it. Plus, they get some lineup flexibility. If they want to, they can play small with Ibaka at the five, put Carol at the four, and play with three guards.

I mean, they can play so many different types of things. of ways if they'd like to. No, I like this for Toronto, and clearly they're in a win now mode. I just, I think, I think this is despicable. If I was an Orlando fan, I'd be throwing up uncontrollably. He's creation, man. Gotta get something. I'm aware.

All right, so number two is that Kevin Love. You know, there was kind of like a scare about this. They said that they were seeking an opinion. That was the story yesterday, that the Cavs were going to be seeking a second opinion that might keep Kevin Love out more time. We get word this morning that, in fact, he is getting a scope and is going to be out for six weeks. So this changes things.

There's no way around it. They're going to have a tough road to hoe without love. So with Kevin Love, I'm scared because in 2011, he had a left knee contusion. In 2013, he had a scope on his left knee. And then the last two seasons, he had left knee pain or trouble. whatever it may have been. And then this year, obviously, he just had the scope. So over the last six years, Kevin Love has had a lot of left knee trouble. And obviously, everybody knows history of big men with knee injuries and leg injuries usually does not bode well for them. And you just wonder,

like, when does this become a real problem? Because it's something that has been a nagging issue for a couple years now, but when does it become a, when does it get to the level where like, okay, this could really hurt Kevin Love for his career and for the Cavaliers? Maybe that time is here and we just don't know it yet. I hope it's not because you never like to see great players get hurt, but I think it's something that we at least need to have on our radar. Well, and they had had that rough January where they were seven and eight in January and it feels like, you know, just recently they had gotten it back together where they had won five

of their last six games. So it felt like they kind of, you know, steadied the ship after what was a pretty tough January and they had all these quotes and LeBron's cussing after the games and talking about what they need and whatever. And now it also changes the trajectory of what do they do at the trade deadline now? Right? Like, do they – can they get in the market for anything? Do they have anything to move off of, to try to help them out in the meantime? That's the issue, man.

You look at Toronto, you look at Boston, those teams can make moves, and Toronto just did. Whereas Cleveland, what is it that they can realistically do? I mean, you look at their roster, it's like they have their top eight or nine guys. And then after that, they don't really have super tradable assets. So in some ways, I think they really just need a guy like Channing Frye just to really take Kevin Love's role over these next six weeks and run with it. And then hope Kevin Love comes back and he's totally healthy. totally were his same old Kevin Love, but there's also a possibility that doesn't happen. If he doesn't come back 100%, are they still the favorite?

Yeah, because they have LeBron James, but I think the gap is a lot closer than people think. And it's, look, it's been close anyway this season. The Celtics are only two games back, and granted, the Cavaliers are still unbelievable. But Kevin Love has really, really become the guy. I think people expect that. I mean, look, it was just last year. year we were talking about how the cavalier should arguably trade Kevin Love. And suddenly this season, he's just fit in perfectly. I mean, he looks great playing alongside Irving and LeBron

now. They've developed perfect chemistry together. And they've become a team that's really impossible to stop with those three on the floor. And now they're without one of those guys. And they need somebody else to step up for at least six weeks and then hope that loves healthy. Yeah. Well, I know that they, listen, he did it without Kyrie and love. You know, when he had those. absurd playoff games and he was in the finals. I would say the Cavs were probably, even though we besmirched their roster so badly, they're probably a little bit deeper. I mean, they did have guys that went off and got paid, whether it was the right thing or not, like the Delavadovas and the Mosgolfs, etc. Right?

That moved on elsewhere that were on that team that was in the finals a couple of years ago and are no longer. But yeah, I would agree with you. The gap certainly closes a lot because, you know, inevitably when you win a lot and guys get paid all their money, you know, you got to sacrifice other guys on the team. And so you look around and you're like, you know, the same reason Robbins bitching about how he doesn't have enough help is the same reason it's going to be difficult to do anything at the trade deadline, I would think, you know? Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the issue for them at point guard. They worked out those guys, but at the same time, they need. Look, I wrote an article in the ringer a couple weeks ago about the real need for LeBron needing a point guard is to get him to the finals. Like, if you look at Delavadova's minutes last year in the playoff run, they dwindled each round of the playoffs.

And eventually he was a DNP in the finals for a couple games because you need that guy to help LeBron get there by allowing him to have a playmaking role that diminishes. And then as you get to the finals, then LeBron starts playing 40 plus minutes a game. The fact both him and Irving are playing over 35 minutes per game right now in the middle of February is just insane to me. I don't understand why or how LeBron James, who has been to like 100 straight NBA finals, is averaging the most minutes in the entire league. It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, he plays as many playoff games as everybody every year and he plays international. Like, he played in the Olympics. It's ridiculous.

So, come on, man. Get this guy a little break. All right. Let me hustle through these. Number three was Mike Boutenholzer says Paul Millsap's not going anywhere. Now, you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago when Millsap's name came up. His name was heavy with possibly Toronto. But Toronto just made that Baca deal this morning.

Boutenolzer says that he's not going anywhere. And frankly, you know, the Hawks are right in the mix. They're still competing for possible home court advantage. If the playoffs started today, they would be. the fourth seed and they would have home court advantage and milsap made another all-star team he's obviously been really good um what do we make of this uh because boon and also it's one thing for a coach to say it uh that we would always take heed to it but he runs the show their personnel wise too so i guess we're i guess we're done talking about milsap being in another jersey i think it's funny

that just a couple weeks ago we were talking about how hey maybe the raptors should trade for him And now at this point they have the same exact record, 32 and 23 as of recording this morning. And I understand. I mean, I have a feeling that they must feel confident that Millsap wants to stay there and he wants to resign. Because for Al Horford last year, there was a little bit of, there was some noise that potentially they would move him for the right price. But they wanted way too much. They wanted high draft picks and great prospects for a guy who was going to be a free agent to be. And clearly, they're not going to get that for Millsap either.

So maybe they're just banking on him being loyal and staying with the franchise. And if that's the case, then good for them. Okay. Number four, Rick Carlisle, after coaching against the Boston Celtics last night, says that that team's got the goods to make it to the NBA finals. Is that prisoner of the moment I just coached against them and they played really well? Or do you think that we should pay a lot of attention to what Carlisle says here? I think we need to pay attention.

I think the Celtics are really, really, really, really, really, good. And they have, they can play, they're one of those teams like we mentioned with Toronto. They can play different styles. They can beat you with small ball, putting Horford at the five and Crowder at the four and having three guards out there. Or they can play with two bigs with Horford and Olinick or Horford and Johnson, whatever combination you look at. So that team has lineup flexibility, but they also have one of the best point guards in basketball. You can talk about his defense all you want, but the dude is a stud score at the point guard position and Isaiah Thomas.

Look, they do need another guy, though, because in the playoffs, there will come a time where defense just overload their defense on Isaiah and try to make everybody else on the floor beat them. So that's why, like, touching back on what we talked about a couple of weeks ago, I think Carmelo Anthony would be so great for them because how do you stop a Carmelo Anthony, Isaiah Thomas, pick and roll? And in some ways, it's similar to Cleveland with Kyrie Irving and LeBron James.

Carmelo was not on LeBron's level, and I think Isaiah Thomas is closer to Kyrie Irving the people think but the point is, is like if you switch that pick and roll and a small guy's on Carmelo, he's going to kill him. He's going to take him an ISO or post and shoot over the top. If you put a slower guy on Isaiah Thomas, he can get by anybody. And if you don't switch that pick and roll,

Carmelo Anthony is going to be wide open for pick and pop or Isaiah Thomas is driving to the lane. So if they can get one more guy, one more guy that takes pressure off of Isaiah Thomas, they could be a serious threat in the playoffs. Wait, am I a threat? Am I in Bizarro world? I'm the Carmelo guy here.

What's happened to you? Well, I'm talking for, am I talking to Kevin O'Connor? Am I talking to Kevin O'Connor? Wait, when did you warm up to Carmelo Anthony? At the 20-minute mark of like podcast 67 or something like that, I forget which one. I think 67, a couple weeks ago. Look, look. It's because I think the price for Carmelo is really cheap.

Okay. All right. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let me play devil's advocate here, okay? The Celtics are 9 and 1 in their last 10. They are now two games back from a team that just announced this morning is going to be without Kevin Love for a month and a half. They can get the one seed without making a deal and possibly screwing up anything.

So just rock with this. Carlisle said they're good enough to make the finals. why do I want to mess this up if I'm two games back, I'm nine and one in my last 10, and I could very well get the one seed even without swinging a big deal. Because there's always ways to get better to look at another Boston sports team. The Patriots traded Jamie Collins, who was arguably one of their best defenders midseason. I mean, there's always ways to tweak your roster and make minor enhancements that increases your chances. I don't know if he was one of their best.

I don't think so either. I think he was highly overrated, but he's still a 10. talented player, right? He's still a super talented young player. So I think the point is, is I think there's always ways to tweak your roster even when you're already, like they've you mentioned the Celtics are 9 and 1 in their last 10. They've won 23 of their last 30. Like they are totally rolling right now. I think he would fit into, but we must take into consideration. It could screw things up. Anytime you make a deal, it can switch the chemistry you know, one way or another way. And it can either, it can either be the best thing that ever happened

to a team or the worst thing that ever happened to a team. And when you have won at the rate that the Celtics have won, especially recently, and there's only one team ahead of them, and there are only two games ahead of them, I think you take – maybe you think a little bit longer before you swing a deal. That's what I would say. Whereas I thought we were all under the impression that, listen, they got this huge kitty of assets, and they're going to move off of it. and any angel eventually make a big deal.

You know, maybe you're a little, maybe pause a little bit more on making a big deal, just given the circumstances of this morning. But I don't know, Toronto got a Baca, so you may look at that and go, all right, they're loading up for bear. We better get something. My thing is, is what you said is kind of exactly what I'm thinking, because if I'm the Celtics, I don't know if I'd feel too good about dealing both nets picks and, like, one of their best young players,

Jalen Brown, for example, for Jimmy Butler. I don't think I'd feel great about that because I don't think Jimmy Butler makes you that real title contender. And Carmelo doesn't either necessarily, but the price for him is so low. I think it's so low. I mean, if we just go off of what the Clippers were reportedly interested in dealing for Carmelo, if we go off the fact that it seems like Phil Jackson's trying to push Carmelo out the door, it seems like the price could theoretically be low. So I think you're able to have the best of both worlds if you're able to be.

But keep your Nets Picks, keep your top young prospects, and deal one thing of value, and then other picks other than the Nets Picks. So you increase your chances of winning this year while maintaining your best future assets. So I think that is, in some ways for me, the step back instead of dealing everything for theoretically a younger superstar like Butler or Paul George or whoever. Okay. So if I go back in time, the title of our fourth story was that Rick Carlisle says that Boston can make the final. We do buy into that. Yeah, I do. I think Cleveland is vulnerable if Kevin Love is not 100%.

And so that goes for the Celtics, Wizards, Raptors. I think those teams could potentially make a run. All right. Number five, this was the story of the night last night in the NBA, and it's Nicola Yokic, who earlier in the year, one of the first podcast I did for The Ringer was with Mike Miller, a veteran player for the Nuggets. And I said, listen, you're in these practices all the time, and you're with all of these young players, Jamal Murray and Moodye, et cetera, et cetera, on this team.

Who is the guy that has a chance to be a huge star on this team? And he immediately said, Yokic. And he said, I've played with both Gassals. They're two of my favorite teammates ever. And he is farther along than those two guys. And I stopped him. And I said, listen, those guys were the first team all NBA guys. in their careers.

And he knows. I mean, he was like, I think the guy can be a 10-time All-Star. And he said, and this is like before the season even started, or like right when the season had just started. And I was like, man, I need to start paying attention to this guy. Kevin, this guy, last night, 17 points, 21 rebounds, 12 assists. In his last 15 games, Nicola Yolkich has had 23.5 points, 11 rebounds, 5.7 assist. is shooting 59% from the field, 39% from 3.

After the game last night, Jemir Nelson, who is obviously a veteran guard in the NBA, said, I've played with some great big men. I've played with Dwight. I've played with Dirk. I've never played with a big quite like Yokic. This guy is like taking the league by storm in the last six weeks. So we talk a lot about some of the great young centers in the NBA,

Anthony Davis, Joel M.Bed. Guys like that. Towns? Yeah, Towns. Yokic is the guy we don't talk about quite that much, do we? I mean, Yokic just kind of gets a little bit overlooked. But with performances like last night, I think people are starting to see truly what he's capable of.

And that's not just scoring or it's not just room protection, but it's passing. That dude is an incredible passer for a big man. And that's why I think that Gasol comparison is so good because Gasol, I think, is probably one of the best passing Big Man we've had this last decade or so, and Yokic has kind of becoming that guy already. He's averaging over four assists per game this season with an assist percentage of

nearly 30, and for a big man, that's like really, really unusual. I think Joaqu Noa maybe had assist percentages that high, but this dude is an incredible passer. He's amazing watching him. Well, and in fairness, right, A, plays in Denver, right? So you

really got out of your way. Like, you got a league pass in order to get to watch the Nuggets on a regular basis. The games are later than your typical Eastern Time, Eastern Time games. And the third thing, and I think most importantly, all the guys that you had mentioned prior, M.B. Davis, towns, they were stars in college. We're all well aware of those guys in college. Whereas Nicola Yolich, he was playing in the Adriatic League.

And I saw, I don't know if you saw this going around. There was a reporter for Denver. Forgive me, I can't recall his name, but he covers the Nuggets. And last night after the game, he tweeted out this photo, and it said, this is what ESPN was running when Yokic was drafted. And you see, like, you know, like on the bottom line, did you see what I'm talking about? Do you know what I'm talking about? And it says 41st pick, Nicola Yokic, you know, Serbia or whatever. And then, like, on the screen, it's like a picture of a jalupa.

It's like a Taco Bell commercial. Like, it wasn't even... It was just like it happened. It was on the bottom line. And it happened literally during a commercial break at the draft. And then you look up and now we're a couple years down the road. And, I mean, you know, people are now talking about... Like, I saw Reggie Miller like trying to put a poll together.

Whose career would you want? M. B. or Yokic? And then he was like, I'm taking Yokic. I mean, like, we're to that point. Think about me. This guy is killing everybody. And to do it last night against the Warriors, that really, he finally got total attention. He had the 40-point game last week.

And he's had five of his highest scoring games ever in the last 13. But when you do it against the Warriors, you start getting the headlines finally. And this guy, she's, I mean, it seems like Malone finally figured it out, right? which is going to lead me to the next one, which is number six. And I'll get to this real quickly. They made a deal in order to best serve Yokic, it appears, earlier this week, and you wrote about it. And the idea was that Denver got smoked with Yerkich and Yokic. Nerkich and Yokic.

When they were both on the court, they got beat by what was the number, like 15 points per one hundred. possessions. I mean, it was a miserable combination for them. And so they're clearly going to build around Yokic. They move off of Nurchich. They end up getting Mason Plumley. And so there were picks involved in the deal, but on the surface, you know,

they move off of Yusef Nerkich and they move him to Portland. Portland moved Plumley to Denver. And you think what? I think Juan Hernan Gomez is going to get more opportunity. But I didn't think he would score 27 points last sign against the Warriors.

So that came out of nowhere for him. Okay, so here's the funny thing about the Nuggets, right? So I liked Yokic in the draft, but I didn't have confidence based off the games I've seen to rank him way higher than I did. Because it's hard. You're not seeing a guy in person or, for example, just simply not seeing as much as you do as the guys that you do in college. I felt the same way about Hernig Gomez, and I felt the same way about Nerkich. I was wrong about Nerkich. He hasn't turned into a player that I expected him to.

I think a lot of that derives from effort levels, which was something we did see overseas. But, like, I thought maybe in the NBA he'd start playing hard consistently. And that hasn't happened. So I think it was great for Denver to move off of him and really just open the floor for Yokic, allow them to play with more space with a guy like Hernan Gomez, who I think is just fucking awesome. Like, that dude can stroke threes. He can rim run. He's explosive.

He plays his ass off. Like, that dude is going to be a really good player for a long game. time. And then plus, look, they add a guy, but I'm more excited about the guys that they have within the roster. They're going to get elevated opportunities. All right. So you like the deal. Who do you like the deal? I mean, the Portland thing, they're going to have what, three picks in this upcoming draft? Yeah, it's nice for them. Yeah. I think it's nice that they have three picks, though, because that gives them assets. And you don't think NERC, well, you don't think we're going to look up and NERC really turns into something. You're out on it.

him. I'm not out, but at the same time, like, how, how often do we see guys and we say, oh, if only they played hard, if only they, they tried harder on the defensive end of the floor, we say that all the time with guys, and how often do they actually start playing hard? It's not often. So, like, I think a lot of times we just trick ourselves into falling in love with potential. And so the potential that Nurkich has and had at the draft is real. Like, it's there. That guy was called. by my friend Dean Demacchus of Dean on draft.com, the Bosnian Boogie. And that nickname was super appropriate for him because that dude's a monster when he's playing hard,

but he doesn't all the time. And that's the thing that I think really holds him back. I'm not out on him, but I'm really not feeling too good about his future. That's why I think the pick, that's the real haul in that trade for the Blazers. Now they have three first round picks and a load of drafts. They have versatility to either move within the draft or package those picks with a player. They can get creative. All right, we are going to talk about what this does for Denver, who is two games up on everybody in the Western Conference race for the eighth seed right now, right after these words.

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All right, Kevin, as I mentioned, Denver is up two games on everybody else. Denver's two games up on Portland. and Sacramento. I guess there are two games up on Portland and Sacramento. They're three games up on the Mavericks, who have really been surging. Shout out to Yogi Farrell. Three and a half games up on the Pelicans.

Four games up on Minnesota. You know, we're starting to get to the stretch run here. We're going to get to the All-Star break coming up this weekend. And then, you know, everybody's got to have about 20-something games left. What do we think on Denver? And I know we're high on them right now. Yolka just killing everybody. They just got that big win against Golden State last night.

But do they have staying power? I think last time we spoke, you thought it would, in the end, it will end up being Portland. As of today, this is going to be a good little race for that, for whoever can get that 8 seed. Do we think it's going to be Denver as of today? So the Nuggets still have the worst defensive rating in basketball. Right. And the Blazers have the fifth worst. we're talking about two horrible defenses, or actually even if we want to throw the kings into that too,

three horrible teams of horrible defenses that are fighting for that eight seed. And I don't feel quite as confident with Portland as I did a couple weeks ago when you asked me that same question. But then, like still, they got so much firepower with Lillard and McCallum. I just wonder for them at some point that manifests until like just a super crazy hot streak and where they get into the playoffs. Whereas with Denver, they're a little bit more steady, I think. So I think in some ways it's about who gets hot, but I do think by subtracting Nurkich and adding Plumlee

and elevating playing time for other guys, I do think it does help Denver. Are we making a mistake by discounting Rick Carlisle, Dirk Novitsky, and the Mavericks? What's been going on with them over the course of the past three, four weeks since this Yogi Farrell stuff came back, since they got a little healthy, since West Matthews looks the best he's look, since the Achilles. Like, I don't know.

I watched him the other night. I was starting to talk myself into the Mavs making another run here and maybe ended up being a playoff team. I wouldn't discount them. No, I wouldn't. I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of what West Matthews is just killing it. And Harrison Barnes, man, like we talked all the time last year about how he was terrible in the finals, which he was, and how maybe the Mavericks overpaid, which.

maybe they did, but that guy has really made strides in his game this year. It's his first season being a feature player, and he hasn't really had, he hasn't, look, he's not a superstar, but the dude is really playing well within his role when he's given the first opportunity. He's averaging over 17 shots a game, and the highest he had before was 9.6. This is his first time with this type of role, and I think it's a good thing for him to really get this experience and kind of a transition season possibly to lead up into even a bigger role once Dirk retires in the future. So I do like their strides the team has made and especially with Barnes. Number seven, Lamarcus Aldridge says that the Spurs should probably have more All-Stars than they do,

which would lead you to make the assumption. He's talking about himself. He's speaking to the vertical, he said, I'm older, so I'm not going to come home and be mad or anything. But I do think it was wrong for Golden State Def for All-Stars, and we're a few games behind and only have one. It is what it is. I'm in this position, and I'm going to enjoy my break and just come back fresh. He said he is going to go for the All-Star break to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, and go enjoy his time there. He's not having this crazy statistical season, by any means, averageing 17 points and seven rebounds a game.

he would be the only other guy from the Spurs if there was to be an argument as to the Spurs should have a second All-Star besides Quay Leonard. He's the only one that you could really argue. What do we think? Does he have a point here? Should he, based upon the Spurs level of success this year and the fact that he is their second best guy, should Lamarcus Aldridge have made the All-Star game? No. My question that Lamarcus Alder would be, who are you taking off the roster to add yourself?

Like, are you serious, dude? Well, he thinks a warrior shouldn't have four. Yeah, well, you, yeah, look, you can't just look at the standings and say, oh, yeah, we're only four games back. So therefore, we deserve another All-Star, and they deserve one fewer. It's like, no, dude, like, I think the guys who made that team, you can't make a single argument against Durant or Curry, right? I don't think you can make an argument against Stream on Green because that dude is so unbelievable in so many different categories. It's the only guy, maybe you can make an argument about it's Clay Thompson. But even that, I don't think the argument is very strong.

So I don't know. Maybe he just looks at like the basic box score stat line and sees Draymond Green's low numbers. And he's like, how the hell this guy make the team over me? But no, no, no, dude. That guy is the best defensive player in basketball. And Marcus Alders is not. Okay. So if we wanted to make the All-Star team, he should have stayed in Portland.

Yeah, get those big counting numbers. numbers. Yeah. By the way, of those four all-stars for the Golden State Warriors, one of them is Steph Curry. And you wrote about Steph earlier this week, and I want to get your thoughts on these. I posted yesterday at the ringer.com, and it is Steph Curry is still evolving. Tell me how. She's just playing with one of the best players in the world for the first time, and I think naturally there would be an adjustment period. I think maybe some of the struggles he experience earlier in the season were maybe a little bit overstated. And in January, leading up until now, I guess leading up until last night when he shot one for 11 from three. So leading up until

last night, he was putting up numbers pretty similar to his historic season last year. And the big change, and this was apparent in Bill Simmons podcast with Steve Kerr, is they just really encourage Steph just to be Steph, right? Just be himself. And he really has elevated the frequency of the amount of pull-up jumpers he's taken from three. I forget the numbers exactly, but it's in the article, and it was something along the lines of, like, he was taken three before the new year, and since then he's taking around six pull-up threes per game. So he's, like, doubled, hit the frequency of that shot.

And obviously, that's one of those shots that made people fall in love with him. All right, so you are, and listen, I listened to the podcast with Durant with Simmons, too, and after the Curry won. And just to listen to them talk about Curry and the whole, like he almost scoffed at the whole idea of them being an alpha or whose team is it or whatever else. But there's no doubt that Curry has, you know, they figured it, they've started, they figured out how to play together

and whoever's cooking, they just let him cook. But it was going to take some time. And I think Curry deserves a lot of credit for this. He really does. Because that is not easy. It's hard to figure out how those two guys can play together successfully. And a lot of it's going to be on Curry's plate and making Durant comfortable, getting him to play his best basketball in the Warriors uniform.

And I do think with the level of efficiency Durant has played with, Curry deserves some credit for that, man. Maybe a lot of credit for it. Look, so in the article I compared Stefan Garvey to Steve Nash, like everybody else has ever since he's been drafted. But the point of the comparison was that Steve Nash, he played with superstars, right? I know they struggled with the Lakers, but Kobe Bryant posted his career high effective field goal percentage in the year that him and Nash were healthy the entire season. Amari Stodomeyer, not a Hall of Famer, but for a couple years there, it looked like he was on track to becoming a Hall of Famer.

Steve Nash elevated his play to a level higher than ever before. And then, obviously, with Dirk Nowitzky, Steve Nash was great with him as well. So for Curry, this is his first experience playing with a guy that's on that Hall of Fame go-to-scorer level, right? Clay Thompson, incredible shooter, Dream on Green, incredible player, but they're not quite go-to-level Hall of Fame scores like Curry is himself. So this is his first time having to make that adjustment as a player. And I think that's simply what was happening earlier in the season. They were learning to play together. They were jelling.

And it's still happening today. and it's also possible that they might not click for another two, three years at an optimal level, but it's happening. And we're seeing the signs of them playing together at an elite level. And I'm just excited to see what's going to happen in the playoffs when they actually unveil everything that they can actually do. Because we haven't seen Curry running pick and roll with Durant setting the screen very, very often this year, which is something I thought we would see. But maybe that's something that they're saving more for the playoffs to give teams less time to make that adjustment.

So I think the potential of those two is higher than what we've even seen. And they'll score 150 points a game or what? Yes. God forbid. All right. Number nine, the Developmental League is getting a new name. The Developmental League is going to be renamed the NBA Gatorade League. NBA DL is going to be renamed the NBA G League.

Deputy Commissioner Mark Tatum says the agreement allows the G League to take advantage of Gatorade Sport Science Insights. As part of the deal, the Gatorade logo will be displayed on the jerseys, game balls, and on the court. The league also remains a testing ground for changes that could be implemented into the parent league. And so Gatorade Vice President, Senior Vice President General Manager Brett O'Brien, listed several examples. Testing for players' sweat type and amount if they are a fat burner or a carbohydrate burner, recovery advances, and joint health. So there's going to be some kind of tie-in between this Gatorade Sports Science Institute and the league, which is a good thing. I know some people immediately are like, oh, man, if Dad, I don't want to have logos on everything and whatever else. Like, I couldn't care less.

I am all for whatever it takes the D-League to be more successful and more profitable, I am for. And if it means it being a totally sponsored league, what do I care? You know what I mean? I just want the product to be good, and it seems like teams are a lot more. I've really warmed up to it. We're going to get to the point where every team has their own D-League team. Because of the new CBA, you're going to be able to have a couple more players on your roster that can be those hybrid players. So theoretically, the quality of D-League play is going to get even better, and teams are going to take more into account.

So I don't know. That was my first reaction. I think it's funny that it's the G League, that it's going to be the Gatorade League, but if it helps it make it more successful slash profitable, what do I care? So I get a couple thoughts. They're related to yours, Chris. I think, for one, the D League wasn't a good name, right? I think D League had a negative connotation for players to get sent down there,

whereas the G League that is like the most awesome name you could ever have for a developmental league. The G League. Who doesn't want to play in the G League? League. I want to play in the G League. It's a dope name, man. Nobody's going to ever call it the Gator League, except for the Gator League themselves. It's the G League. That's all it is. And as for the sponsor, look, I saw some tweets this morning about like, oh, what a shame just for some extra money. It's like, dude, the biggest soccer league in the world had the name Barclays in front of it for like 12 years. Barclays Premier League. So if we can talk about sponsors for it for.

There's nothing funnier that people getting mad about D-League sponsors. Like, who gives a shit? No kidding. Like, are you going out of your, like, you really, like, you really care that deeply about the fact that it was, what is it? Is it hurting? It's taking the credibility away from the sport or something. Like, what are we talking about here? Silly.

It's about growing the league, man. That's all what it's about. It's about growing the league and allowing them to get the 30 teams so we can have a true developmental system and the envy. where all 30 teams have their own team in the D-League, where they can use it seamlessly developed players. That's what it's all about. That's what they needed kind of a brand change.

They got that by calling at the G-League. I'm never going to call it the G-Rig. G-Rae-Rate league after this. It's the G-League. Right. The G-League has a new brand, and it's cool. I'm all for being more successful, all for them bringing in more money

so that they can play those players more money. And so we never have to have the arguments of, When a kid leaves school early, they say, oh, he's not ready to go to the NBA. Okay, fine, he's not. They'll go play in the G League. You know what I mean? Honestly, because now there's going to be more opportunity than ever for players with that adding two more roster spots.

It's going to be great. And the hybrid thing, you know, let's say, Yogi Farrell, who has been, wouldn't you say probably the best success story so far this year regarding that? Yeah, this season, yeah. Yeah. Has come out. He's gotten himself a one plus one deal with the Mavericks already. I mean, in a different world, Yogi Farrell would have proved himself.

He would have already been a rostered guy on that team. And you can, if you really believe in yourself, you could make pretty good money. Because what they're doing with that hybrid deal is, as I understand it, when you're playing in the D-League, you get paid your D-League sound. But when you get called up, you're getting paid your NBA salary. And so if you really wanted to bet on yourself and thought you could make the team as a hybrid, and then one injury, one move away, one trade away from being able to play for an NBA team, a lot more minutes or games than you thought maybe you would have been. I don't know.

I just want the whole thing to make a lot of money and be successful. So I was happy that they got a huge sponsor. I would think that they probably paid a good amount of money for this. I wonder when the day will come that a top high school prospect won't go to college. He'll go to the G League. Will that day come soon if there's enough money there for a play to do that? Because, I mean, like Brandon Jennings years ago, when overseas? But when is the G League going to be a viable path?

Well, and it's going to – what it'll be is it'll be a kid with great, right? Yeah. That it's just like, come on, this is a bridge too far. we're not going to go we're not going to Derek Rose it and make you take your ACT in a different state you know what I mean like there's going to be a like when

something or let's say Moodye let's say the Moodye thing happens again right he ended up he couldn't go to SMU and he went over and he played a year like if you made 150 grand or you made a little less maybe maybe that happens a little bit earlier Maybe you end up.

But the trick is, I don't know. Like, I remember there was a kid years ago that did it, Latavius Williams, but the trick would be not going in the draft and signing. Like, that's the next hope. Now that they are getting a little further down the road on this, having hybrid players, I hope, I mean, I don't think it's going to happen. But I think I've always been in favor of make it. You've got to go to college two years.

or you can do whatever you want, right? More like the baseball model. And getting rid of the age limit. I think that would be the case in which, because it's going to be hard to get drafted, you're not going to be able to get drafted and just make the jump. I think draft reform needs to happen.

And, you know, I have a lot of mixed thoughts when it comes to the age limit because, look, I think the best approach is similar to what you just said, is like take away the age limit, but if they go to college, they have to stay two years. So in that sense, I think that would be the best of both worlds. For the team, they get extra time with those guys who aren't elite-level prospects, but the elite-level prospects get to declare for the draft immediately, right?

I think that's a fair middle ground. If you're making a kid go to college for two years, you're not making nearly the mockery of the school. You know what I mean? Yeah, honestly. I mean, you see that stuff about Ben Simmons last year. I mean, what a waste of friggin' time for him to go to LSU. I mean, that's ridiculous.

You know what I mean? Totally ridiculous. And so, at least you make less of a mockery of higher education. So the G-League, I think for the next CBA, like the players are getting paid between $50,000 and $75,000 if they stay in the G-League. They're not called up, right? That's too low. You're not going to get top-level prospects to ever sign for that amount of money.

money, right? Maybe you'll get European players or players that would typically go to Europe for $120,000. Maybe they'll instead stay for less money with an easier path to the NBA. Maybe that's the type of players you'll get. But until you increase those salary amounts significantly, I don't think you'll get the top high school players. I got a Moodye played for a million dollars in China, right? A million bucks. That's significantly more than $75,000 in the G-League. Understood. And the last thing that I want to get to today, number 10, is John Wick 2, because I got a text from you saying that you had gone to see John Wick 2 and you were blown away. You gave this movie very, very high marks. I was fascinated by this because I feel, this is how I feel, Kevin. I swear, I knew nothing about John Wick. I didn't even, like, it wasn't even on my radar, the movie, nothing. And since this John Wick 2 has come out, I feel like everybody's been talking about John Wick. I've seen, I didn't know John Wick one was a thing until John Wick two came out.

So I've never seen either of them. And I don't remember it being people buzzing about John Wick. Maybe I just missed that whole thing. Did the movie come out in the last couple of years or something? I missed one. So first let's go with two, you loved two. Is this a kill-bill situation where two is better than one? Or, what do you think?

Yeah, two's better than one. But my hot take is that John Wick is cooler than James Bond, Ethan Hunt, and Jason Bourne. I think John Wick is the most badass movie, you know, action hero, like I've ever seen. I can't, I hope this is a franchise. And like, years from now, we're talking about John Wick nine. Because, like, I just think he is such an amazing character. And the action in these movies is amongst the best I've ever seen, like the fight. scenes. It's really just an amazing, amazing movie.

All right. So, and I need to go back and watch John Wick one. Is that worth my time? Hell yeah, dude. You get to see John Wick one, so you understand the backstory. And then go see John Wick 2. I know, but that's very high praise. That's very high praise. I don't know, Kevin. Better than Jason Bourne and James Bond. Let's slow down a little bit. If you're not sure, read K. Austin Collins review of John Wick 2. on the ringer, and that'll make you want to see it for sure. I always have to avoid the movie things.

I always feel like there's going to be spoilers. Like, I saw Serrano put up an article yesterday about the five best parts of Lego Batman. I couldn't go read it because I wanted to go see Lego Batman. You know what I mean? I don't want to tell. I don't want to read about the five best parts yet. Well, if you want to wait until after, I understand, but you should read it because it'll make you like the movie even more. That John Book 2 is awesome, dude.

He's a killer. He's amazing. All right. I'm going to watch John Wick won, hopefully. You know what? I'm going to try to do that by next Tuesday when we have our next podcast. Just do it right after we hang out here, Chris. Pull it up.

I got work today. I don't sit around in my underwear all day like you. Take a long lunch, Chris. You deserve to watch John Wood. You're working really hard. Come on, man. That's going to do it for today's ringer NBA show. Oh, by the way, shout out to us.

to Bill Simmons for mentioning the Ringer NBA show in an interview he just did with Recode. Evidently, listenership is really good. I get the same five guys that don't like it are the ones that go give us reviews on iTunes, but evidently the numbers are doing really good. We've got a big audience out there. So thank you to all of you that are listening. Go give us a rating and review on iTunes. And have an unbelievable All-Star break, Kevin.

I'll talk to you next Tuesday. You as well, Chris. Thanks, man. That's going to do it for the Ringer NBA show. We will talk to you later this week.