The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 74: Dave Joerger

Episode Date: February 17, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by Sacramento Kings head coach Dave Joerger to discuss DeMarcus Cousins's desire to finish his career in Sacramento (5:00), Ty Lawson's comeback (11:00), unfounded criticism of Cousins's defense (18:00), Willie Cauley-Stein's improved play (23:00), if the Warriors are better or worse this season (26:00), and favorite All-Star Game activities (30:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Robert Mason, the Ringer NFL show. Even though the Super Bowl is over, free agency, the combine, and the draft are all right around the corner, and the Ringer NFL show will have to be covered bringing everything you need to know. You can subscribe to the Ringer NFL show at iTunes.com slash The Ringer or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show, All-Star Break Edition, and today we are joined by the head coach of the Sacramento Kings.

They are 24 and 33. They're a game and a half back of the eight seed in the Western Conference. He is Dave Yager. How you doing? What's happening, brother? So I wake up this morning, and there's a good little headline. Have you seen the DeMarcus Cousins interview with Ramona Shelburne yet? How about this?

This is good. I get to break this to you. DeMarcus cousin says he intends to sign an extension with the Kings this summer because he, quote, wants his legacy to end in Sacramento and his jersey to be in the rafters in Sacramento. That's got to make you feel good? Good, yeah. What do you think is the reason that, or how many people did you reach out to before you started coaching to Marcus,

or did you just want to go into it with a clean slate? I think it's, you know, how do you partner, how do you figure out how to make each other as good as possible? He's come a long way already. He's learning. He wants to be the game. And then, you know, he wants to bring new skills to the floor every night and have been doing that. And he wants to be a winner. And so, you know, to me, I want to say the burden,

but the weight that he has carried here or six years, Chris, is pretty enormous. When you first talk to him and you're trying to gauge, hey, what's going on? Because you've been a coach in the league for a long time. You have a perception of DeMarcus Cousins before you're going to go into coaching him. Like, what were those conversations like in terms of attempting to develop that partnership immediately? You know, he was pretty straightforward. He just said, hey, what do you want for me?

What can I do? And, you know, he also had the summer game and winning the gold should. How is he different than how he is perceived? I think he, well, I think, you know, people do know what he does off the court. And I think the thing that people don't realize is, you know, how much he wants to win. I think maybe sometimes that gets lost and misinterpreted in the way that sometimes, you know, if he's young at referees or, you know, this or that. So what do you guys talk about regarding the techs because that was a big headline that he got the 16 techs?

He had to sit out a game. The penalties are punitive going forward against him. I mean, you're well aware of what the number is as he's going through it. I know it is a reflection in many cases of wanting to win so bad. But at some point, did you have to have a conversation like, yo, man. Like, we can't. Who can't be doing this anymore? Yeah, he likes to be challenged, you know, to channel his energy and his emotion.

And I just didn't know how to be, how can I beat me and play with the passion that I play? And we just thought how you can do that. So learning process for him and, you know, each player goes to work on that one too. Are you surprised he said what he said at the All-Star game? I mean, because if you go on, the quotes are like, I'm very happy. It's where I want to be. you know, I mean, you don't see, especially in this day and age, Dave, you know, you don't see a lot of guys attempting to commit because they know that it can come back to bite them if something changes.

And so it's hard to say, I want my jersey in the rafters. I want my legacy to be in this city. You know, but that's pretty well laying the hammer down, right, with those quotes. But, you know, I think people don't understand how special a place like Memphis can be. You see, you know, Gile Street downtown there within a block I had. I did nine years, man. I loved it, and the community was fantastic. And I think those guys, like Mark, has that have been there,

want to be there long term, which was really cool. And I think the same thing about Sacramento. I think, you know, sometimes you only get in and out of town, you don't really get to see. But, you know, the fan base is extremely the Memphis, and they care about their team. They come out, you know, it's going to be the guy and be part of turning that thing around

and living out here and you can just feel it. And you always, I don't think people, you know, a lot of the guys from the, you know, a lot of the guys from the guys, some of the games with Grant Nature. So it's a real family atmosphere, and sometimes, I think, you know, the perception of the outside is not the same as once you're here. Are you happy with the season so far? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm excited, I think.

And it's part in a new situation with a whole one. And had some injuries. I don't know what that says. I'm carrying that around from last year in Memphis to this year or what, but it's just like everybody goes through, but are and the progress we've made and the try to lay down a foundation

for what you want to be about for the next, you know, hopefully five, six, eight years. Everybody always talks about changing the culture, and any time a new head coach comes in, it's like, we've got to change the culture around here, and you know it's been in Sacramento, they've lost a lot of games, and then you've got to take

over an attempt to turn this into, from the coaching perspective, a winning franchise. So what did you want to implement and where do you feel like you are in that progress or in that process? Yeah, it's a good question because we're not a young, young team. You know, and so you're kind of serving,

sometimes you're serving too masters. But the biggest thing I want to do, you know, get after people defensively. I think teams are made and built. Industry is built at the end, at the defensive end of the floor. trust and all those kinds of team-oriented things, that that has to matter. You know, I don't know if I really like that word, Chris.

You know what I mean? Like, it's kind of overused, isn't it? I don't know if I'm going on here to compete our tail off, and so the team has really helped out. I think, you know, Matt Barnes, who's competitive in this locker room, and has had a terrific year on the court. And Garrett Temple, who's on the, you know, class in the NBA. It's interesting that you say that about Lawson because he was, you know, a lot of blame was given to him over the Houston stuff or that it just didn't work out in Houston with him in the mix and Hardin and whatever.

And even when I had Darrell Morey on, he said, you know, it just didn't click for whatever reason. And so there is some level of rehabilitation. You think they didn't do that, though? I mean, like, who needs the ball in Houston and who's getting the ball? and who should get the ball but dude should have the ball games out so I think it's worked out pretty good

I think you know Mike Anthony has that's a terrific job and my guy Jeff is a great dude and they're guarding a little bit and they're scoring a whole bunch of points and tell me that Kyle also could be one of our two best players and see that's pretty high praise

it's fantastic for a tie contract here out of this coming forward when you talk about the serving two masters and you are only a game and a half out of the eighth seed. There are some that are out there, as you know, that will pontificate. Like, what are the kings doing? You're stuck in the middle.

Why are you trying to make the playoffs? They should just start rebuilding. Likewise, you said you got a lot of veterans on your team. Veterans don't want any business of not or acting like you're not going to try to make the playoffs. And so if you can just speak to the position the franchise is in and you as a coach, on one hand, you know you need more going forward. On the other hand, you inevitably have a lot of guys in that locker room that really want to make that playoff push and get to the playoffs.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a good point. You want to go be competitive. You want to go out every night and just compete. And what can you do to change the cold development and all that in this? If you know, gosh, darn about playing those games, they just play their tail. off, man. And if you're a free

like, hey, you know what? I don't know a lot about Sacramento, but I know that team plays really hard. And I try to, you know, lay it down of how you want to be going forward. And then we don't have a real middle class on our roster either. Chris, you know, the

guy like Ben McAmore, who's in his fourth year, is kind of the only guy in that area where a lot of guys have either had between seven or more seasons or are really rookies. We have three rookies on the roster, and we have Lily Colley Stein, who's in his second year, who's been playing really well.

But there's not a lot of middle guys that are on and try to get this thing turned around. And your opinion is that is what's best for the franchise going forward, the perception that the Kings play hard and that there's something, the future is bright, rather than just deciding, as you know, so many teams do, all right, we're not a playoff team, we're just going to decide. and then maybe even not outwardly tanking, but sneaky tanking, just to decide, hey, we want to get a high pick so that that's the best for the future of the franchise.

You hear that all the time. You know, the worst place to be is in the middle, like you said, you know what I mean? Like, either go all the way and get as high a pick as you can or get in the playoffs, but don't be the nice best. You know, I'm like, well, you know, nothing's been set to me about the direction other than to go out and win as many games as you can. And so injuries change where you get us from Linole.

And, you know, we were a younger team in Memphis when we calmly. First from Lano first got there. We had a second year, Pat Lowry, we had a corner of Marcus Salt, Sam Young, Grievous Vasquez. We had a lot of young guys come through there. And then they had him out hard work and, you know, teamwork. And going out and competing every night is, I think, really, really important. I'm glad you mentioned Loury because a lot of people may not know. You were an assistant on the staff when he was very young in his career.

then he bounced around a couple of different times before he landed in Toronto and is eventually in this, you know, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth year of his career become a guy that can feasibly start All-Star games. Are you surprised at what's happened with Kyle? I am and I'm not. And I'll tell you both. I think, you know, I don't know that I saw Isaiah Thomas becoming this great. For example, I thought he'd be a 20-a-night player.

That he could be really, really good. You know, he plays like Scarjie. but he's done with his jump shot. I think that's really, really improved his three-point shooting. And then, you know, he found a nice home there in Houston with Adelman. And I said he'd be an all-star.

I thought it'd be pretty good, but I'm just what his career has become in the summers to work him out and knowing him when he was young and now, you know, he's got two kids, and it's a pretty cool deal. Another guy that you knew from a very young age was Rudy Gay, who happens to be on your

Sacramento team now. And I know that had to be rather devastating when he went down with the Achilles this year. Yeah, I didn't mean to skip. I couldn't go through the full list, I guess. We had OJ Mail and Rudy Young rookie, OJ was a rookie, and Rudy Gay was a second-year guy. OJ is like out in a desert somewhere, Dave. He's like, you see that picture? OJ was like out in a damn desert in a Dashiiki or something.

What is going on? I've not seen that, no. Back to Rudy. Yeah, it does. Well, OJ situation breaks them a heart, too. You know, when you spend the time when you know those guys when they're 19, 20 years old and getting going and see you've got to go down, Mario Chalmers. And it's just, there's never one of the field. You know what I mean?

They're ultra ego as far as alpha, confident, competitive, untouchable, unbreakable, uninsurable, all in a good way, you know. And so he'll come back and be better 30. He got here, is he really guarded, you know, the first month. I mean, you know, he's a guard in this league. And it's her to find a really good three. And that's not, no distrait of, you know, somebody whose name is not in the top ten or whatever. But, you know, you go line up against LeBron and Koi Leonard and Durant on a nightly basis. And that's tough.

And they have a guy stand in front of those guys and defend those guys and then, you know, to go at those guys. They can be difficult to find him, you know, Rudy's an asset. organization, that's for sure. So the flip switched for him defensively. You know, Cousins gets dogged for his defense? Is that unfounded? You know what I mean? And do you think that DeMarcus has the opportunity to be a really good defender if he sets

his mind to it? Well, I think, you know, he's smart, and he wants to be good, and he wants to win. So those three things, you know, lend itself to be. being competitive and wanting to win and doing whatever it takes to win, and if that's what it is, then I think knowing that he can do it. I see him do it for six, seven years. You know, he's carried the load so much offensively. I think sometimes it can be natural, too.

He's lazy or any of those things. I think he spends a lot of energy, you know, trying to get his team and be competitive every night. And sometimes it can be difficult. But when he's really lucky, he can really go hard. He's got a huge wing. spin. I don't think people understand it. 7.6 is his wingspan. So he gets to balls and can block shots and

so forth to others that you don't think he can get to. As he gets to know the system, you know, embrace it, which he has, and then be the linebacker calling out all the coverages and be in that back line of defense. You know, and it's hard too, Christy. Where's the league is going to play in four perimeters around one big?

And, you know, I think best sitting toward him. Do you play him at some five or how does your roster work out? So we've done both. We've played small around them and we've played a big with him as well. It is so Zbo-esque and you brought up Randolph, a guy that you had for a long time, whereas people always want to pull coals in it, right? And there is a limit. Like, Zach Randolph is never going to be Bill Russell out there, right? But he gets buckets on one end. Same way with kind. I mean, you've got a guy that's averaging 28 points a game, right, for you. And, yeah, the league does run a million.

in picking rolls and whatever. So he makes up for it on the offensive event, even if people want to dogging for his defense. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, the greatest, you know, there's a lot of things I would say very positive. And I love his growth. He just carries the mail.

You know what I mean? When it's a big night, you know you can go to that guy in the fourth quarter and get buckets. And I think that's what you can do with the Marcus. And, you know, he had a terrific game the other night against the Lakers, and we just went to him a shot, get an offensive rebound. They come down to double them.

He makes the right pass. You know, I'm seeing real boys. You know, you like the fact that guys keep improving throughout the season and come back each season with a new skill and keep improving. Let me ask you about a couple of young guys on your team. Collie Stein's been playing the best of his career so far. What is he? What is Collie Stein?

Is he a guy that you foresee being one of these pick and roll, you know, the league's going towards guys that. can, you know, defend the rim and rim run on the other end. Is that the mode of operation for Colley Stein? Like, what do we see with him? Yeah, I think so. First of all, he's just a terrific human being. He's really a cool.

He spent three years in college. A lot of these guys only spend one, and he's had some good experiences, and room left for him to grow into his ceiling as a player. So he really moves his feet, well, can blocks the rim runner or shop. He's kind of found a niche, and we played him a lot with Kyle Austin.

And that's really helped, and it's also helped him, I think, to play both the point guard and the rim runner have a lot more room to operate. I think it's helped tie, and I think it's helped Willie. And then all of a sudden, now you can make other guys, you know, not just to say that they're only spot shooters. Because, you know, it almost feels like sometimes you and I, of course, we could never, but maybe you could. But if you played with a great pick and role player and a rolling big that everybody, and all of a sudden guys are just standing out there looking their fingers, finding shots. and, you know, Ties been great at it, and, you know, Willie's ability to get to the rim, you can pick a little situation. McClemore's been playing.

Huh? Yeah, I got my arm's sleeve. You can cook it, man. You can cook it. That's my homage to O.J. Mayo, who's in a desert somewhere. I'm open to do that this year here. I thought that was a cool deal, you know, for people that know. We would have an immediate game after the season was over, you know, all the media cover.

TV, radio, newspaper, some of the bloggers. We'd go play five-on-five, and there'd be 22 people per game per team, and a couple of players coach each team. I ended up referee, and you'd always get 20. And it was fun, so we're hoping to do that here in Sacramento this year. Speaking of a guy that could get 20, McElmore's starting to look like a guy that could get 20. He's been playing better as of recently.

You mentioned him earlier as being a... his fourth year and kind of the middle class on the team. Why do you think so far in his NBA career it hasn't really clicked for Ben? Yeah, I think, you know, four coaches in four years, you know, for a young player is tough, you know, and nothing's ever constant, nothing never stays the same. And so, you know, we came in the summer and started working with him. You know, he always went as a lot of country and they're comfortable. And that's been the constant, you know, and that's kind of the constant around the line.

league too. You don't know. A. Is your coach staying or not? So you go to guys that make you feel good and feel confident over the summer, not knowing if your coach could be there from year to year. And so we got a hold of him and all of a sudden, you know, he spent all of a season. You know, he should be able to take some tough

shot because he's got a quick trigger. He's got good size. He's athletic in the open court. His handles have gotten significantly better due to the time that he's spent working on it and then our coach is working with and just feeling confident and feeling good about having the green light

and also knowing that we can lay this thing down and do this for a couple years. Let me ask you about a couple league questions. Is Golden State better than they were last year? I know. It's probably – it is new because you're putting a new player and who's a great player in the mix. And so how does it work, rotations and different guys when they want to go? and how you always have two of them on the court together. I mean, that's just devastating to guard.

I mean, we're just seeing them the other night. You just have so little room for error against the team like that. So, you know, I can't really compare if they are or not, but he does make them longer, which I think they're starting to find defensively. I think you've seen some of his numbers and blocking some shots and getting some rebounds. You know, he might be listed at 6'10, but he may, in all reality, be 7-1, okay? but he doesn't want to be listed in 7-1.

I got so much respect for him before because of all the battles that we had, and all the playoff battles and six-game, seven-game series there with Memphis and Oklahoma City. So, you know, I'm hoping they have a terrific, you know, playoff run and represent the West. I think it's going to be interesting. The playoffs in the West, it was going to be really interesting. Who is the opponent that you've gone against this year, individual-wise, that you went back to your coach's room after the game. went good grief.

Like, what are we supposed to do? You know, that's a golden state because, you know, if you have a great player, you know, maybe you help or you support inactions off of someone who's not quite as good. Well, what happens when they, you know, they just popped the ball to the middle of the floor, and it's Steph Curry setting a wide-ripped screen for Clay Thompson or Kevin Durand is setting a pin down for Curry. Like, okay, who helps off a hoop? Well, you don't, right?

And it's just very difficult to scheme against. And like you say, you just kind of pull your hair out and just say, good gracious, what do we do on this? But, you know, the thing that they kill you with, you know, because you feel like you have such little margin for error. And that as soon as they hit you with two threes and you put your head down, they'll run away from you in a minute. And, you know, we beat them about 12 days ago here. It was a great battle. And then, you know, we saw them again last night. We kind of ran out of gas.

I hit a little bit of a wall on the second night of it back-to-back and maybe before the All-Star break. But we battled and competed. You know, they came out and had a 42-point third quarter, and, you know, they just, you know, run away from you. Don't talk them up too much. If you can get to that eight seed, that's who you're drawing. All right.

I'd look forward to it. That'd be great to be, you know, a great challenge because, you know, obviously they're very good, but also we'd be a huge step for our organization, too, it would be about, and that's, you know, not where you ever want to end up in five years, but, you know, it's definitely a step forward. You mentioned earlier about Isaiah Thomas.

Is he the guy that now when you coach against him, when you see him in person, you think has improved the most or changed the most of whatever your perception was prior? Because you said you thought this is a guy that might be a 20-game night, 20-night, 20-per-night guy, but he's a 30-per-night guy now. Oh, he's ridiculous. Yeah, I think, you know, it's Isaiah is in a situation there where, you know, they do play spread basketball around them. You know, their fours and their fives. They shoot the basketball before they traded with, you know, Selinger and some of their been shooting.

And so they have that threat, but they also have the court open for him where he can just go take so much respect for what he's done for their organization. But also, they just appear winner. I mean, you look at what he does in the fourth quarter, it's just ridiculous. You have seen, before you took that Sacramento job from afar, the only thing that anybody can go off when they think about the Sacramento Kings is what is reported or what gets talked about. And so there was a poor perception of Vlade and Vivek, the owner there, et cetera. And so now that you're in the mix and you're around those guys versus whatever perception is before you take that job, just tell me about. about the Sacramento Kings and the way that organization works and maybe why it's different than someone may think from afar? Yeah, it's a good question.

I think, you know, you read the carbon, you know, Maiden Jest and some, you know, years ago. And when I spent time, you know, here's a guy who is going to get it. I think some owners in our league Chris, they got their ideas and they, you know, we should do this and we should do that. and they never evolve. I think this guy is a really sharp guy, but I think he gets it. And I think he really has focused in on and now has some experience in a situation

and their success of how they built it and the time that I've spent with him where he sees that it's a process, which is another buzzword right, by culture and process, but that there is no magic wand, and I think he's a really sharp guy, and I think he's going to,

he's going to be a really good owner. He's gone to bat. We have an amazing new arena, top-knots facilities, and just giving the coaches, the players, the resources to be successful, and how much he gets involved. He's a big fan of the team and a big supporter and giving guys whatever resources they need. So I think, yeah, maybe there's a perception out there from a couple years ago,

but I think as time goes on, as people get to know him and spend time with him, they'll find he's a terrific human being and he wants to win and he's going to let guys who have experience make decisions and he wants some input but he wants to be able to let people do their job and same thing for voting who's a guy who didn't have an opportunity to be an assistant GM anywhere right so I think there's a learning curve there and I think he's been around pro basketball I think sometimes we don't realize as Americans you know these guys started in the pro-saint-exam anymore right so I think there's a learning curve there and I think he's been around pro basketball I think sometimes we don't realize as Americans you know these guys started in the pro- basketball career and that age 14 you know overseas they see the good things the bad things how great organizations are built and how not to do it and I think

he's pure hearted a guy as you'll ever find probably one of the best teammates in the history of the NBA and so those things carry over he has a great ability to talk to I know he's got my back I've got his and it's a really a good deal I think the players that have

been here really will say that it has not been this stable. And to see that the GM, the owner, and the coach are all, no chinks in the armor. There's no backstabbing. There's no, you know, I mean, there's no backroom. What do we think this or the other guys not run? The players know that. The players feel that.

And I think that's a positive thing going forward. Well, and you can't do, you can't have anything better for perception than your best player at All-Star weekend saying, I want to be there, I want my jersey in the rafters, I want my legacy in Sacramento. I plan on resigning there in the offseason. Like in terms of stability, that's as good a PR as you can get on All-Star Weekend. I think you'd agree. No, absolutely.

It's all about. What it's about is attracting the best talent that you can get to your organization, whether it be through free agency trades or drafts. I don't say that. That's got to make other people go, man, he's like not looking for greener pastures or wanting a different situation. He believes this is a great situation. Maybe I should give this a second look.

And, you know, that's really what it's all about. What are you going to do for your All-Star break? Nothing. I'm asleep. First day, man, I fled 12 hours with my body just shut down, just like it does after the season's over. And then, you know, we're just hanging out as a family. And you know how we roll with me hang out at the house

and play board games and sequence and card games? And we just, that's it, man. Just real, real happy about, you know, the family situation out here. You know Kara and the girls having been around them in Memphis. And, you know, we just, we got a good thing, and we're excited about being in Sacramento. So that doesn't be meant to, you know, I've never realized how close to the chart of Hawaii now, right? So maybe at some point when it's season's over, I've never been to Hawaii. So maybe take the trip over there.

Will you watch any of it? Not April. Will you watch any of it? Will you watch three-point dunk contest? DeMarcus is in the skills. Will you watch any of All-Star Weekend, the festivities? I do record it so I can go through it faster. I think like a lot of our DVR society now.

But I think it's a celebration of the weekend. I'm not a huge fan of the game, but I am a huge fan of the celebration of our league that is the All-Star weekend. So, yeah, I like to pop in on all that stuff and, you know, see what's going on. And it is. It's really cool. And, you know, certainly will love to be there at some point.

And hopefully we can do that here. What else is on that DVR? Don't mess with my MCIS, man. You know, when you move, sometimes you can lose stuff on your DVR, man. And I lost some stuff. So, you know, watching movies and looking forward to seeing that this weekend. Wow, that's what you'll catch up on, though, NCIS? Well, that's how I will.

Yeah. My man, Dave, have a great All-Star break. I super appreciate you doing this today. Absolutely. Be well, Chris. Thanks, man. All right, man. Dave Yeager, head coach of the Sacramento Kings. That's going to do it for the Ringer NBA show. Everybody have a wonderful and safe weekend and enjoy All-Star weekend. And we will talk to you on Monday.

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