The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 75: The DeMarcus Cousins Deal With Bill Simmons

Episode Date: February 20, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and HBO's Bill Simmons discuss the many ramifications of the DeMarcus Cousins trade to New Orleans. Topics include: Vlade Divac's cap knowledge (8:00), Buddy Hield's star potential (12:00), the rundown of every team's trade scenario for Cousins (16:00), why the Celtics didn't take the risk for Cousins (27:00), Ralph Sampson–Hakeem Olajuwon similarities with Anthony Davis and Cousins (35:00), CP3's return to New Orleans (40:00), and potential trades still on the table (48:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Robert Mason, the Ringer NFL show. Even though the Super Bowl is over, free agency, the combine, and the draft are all right around the corner, and the Ringer NFL show will have to be covered bringing everything you need to know. You can subscribe to The Ringer NFL show at iTunes.com slash The Ringer or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and a very special podcast today, given the boogie trade that took place last night. The trade machine Picasso himself, Bill Simmons joins me. Bill!

What a pleasure to finally be on the ringer NBA show. I don't know what took so long. All right, so here's the thing. I needed Boogie Cousins to get you here. You have put in many a boogie trade into the trade machine, inevitably. Did you ever put in Buddy Healed, Langston Galloway, Tyreek Evans, and a first round pick that's top three protected? That could be like the 30-second pick.

That's a good pick. That swings the deal. Nobody's mentioned that one. I think it was because he was. already in New Orleans and they were just going to try to leave his ass there. My guess says New Orleans was like, okay, my theory, New Orleans, but it. Yes, yes. Or, yeah, and something must have it.

There's two things here, right? So on Friday, literally on this very show, the NBA show, I had Dave Yeager on, the head coach of Sacramento, and we did damn near the whole podcast about Boogie saying that he wants to retire in Sacramento. He wants his legacy to be in Sacramento. He wants his jersey in the rafters, and he wholeheartedly intends to sign an extension there over the summer, right? Now, maybe Yeager knew that something was coming and just did that podcast anyway, or maybe he didn't know at all. Like, I really don't know what to make of that.

And then the second thing is, well, all right, so that's the first thing. And then the second thing is regarding him moving for what they gave up. It sounds like they talked to, I guess, the Lakers. you know, and that there was a couple others. And under one point about the whole did something happen, the most interesting theory I read was Sam Amick, who's super plugged in for USA Today. I don't know if you saw this,

but basically they played the game that Boogie was suspended without him, clearly, against the Celtics. They wallop the Celtics. And it kind of presented this idea that, I don't know, like they watched that game and thought, Jesus, we gave up Isaiah Thomas because we got this guy on our team and we can win without him anyway. Like, what the hell is the point? Like, that that was a flashpoint for this.

So to your point of something must have happened, that's the only thing I've heard that has been presented. I think that's so they can get into it by the Warriors. So this is a bad investment. Yeah, they lose year after year after year. And this guy, Grant Napier, who's like their longtime play-by-play guy, I mean, he just trashed him last night. I mean, it was like, it's like seven years of guys, you know, his teammates hated his guts. And most of the guys, you know, they played with them, hated him. And, you know, they lose every single year.

And so what's the point? And it was like, it was like he was going to, like, throw a parade today about like, finally, they have cleansed themselves from DeMarcus cousins. And so I don't know. I don't really know. I don't really know what to make of it. You know, well, the losers are with these guys all the time. because they have to fly on the planes.

Right. So they're right. You start putting up with stuff. That boogie and they hate. Yeah, right. No, you're right. They went through that mode where they brought in Rondo. They brought in Bellanelli.

They went and spent on Costa Cufus. Like, they haven't figured out whether they, it was like that moments throughout this tenure, they've been like, all right, it's time to win now. And then they just go back on like, all right, F it. We're not going to win right now. So let's do something different. There's two types of. trades, right? There's trades where

they turn out to, you know? Yes, all right, so let me play devil's advocate real quick, all right? Let's do the other side. They didn't scrub. Okay, there's a couple ways they might not have screwed up. A, New Orleans can't resign him in the offseason, right?

And so, or whoever, right, that his agent was throwing out, and his agent even threw that out to like Mark Stein last night. It was kind of like, you know, he wanted to resign in New War or, you know, wanted to resigned at Sacramento and, you know, they can trade him, but he's not going to resign. Like, guys do this for leverage as to try to get to stay wherever they are and make, you know,

because the play for these guys now is get the most amount of money you can possibly get and then bitch about it and get traded. Because then you've already got your... That's what they call that the Carmelo incident. Yeah, right. And then you've got your deal. So here's the other thing. What if, and I know this is going to sound crazy to some people, what if Buddy Heald turns out

to be a big star. Is there any possibility Buddy Heald is a big star? All you have to do. Have you seen anything from him that made you think that guy's going to be a star? That's the biggest commodity though, right? It's the biggest commodity.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying that they got in the deal. He is the one. He is the return. I mean, Lank the Galloway and Tyreek, we're not going to look up and those guys be amazing. and then I guess that pick, right? And so if the pick...

What they're about to drop some knowledge. Drop this time stamped down. There's 29 teams that didn't need him because of Rudy Gobert. Wait, hold on. Let me stop here real quick. Why would I not give up C.J. McCollum? And he's in that... But if I'm trying to pair him with Lillard, you don't think that's a...

I don't know. Okay. And also, like, if I'm saying... Right. That's fair. All right. Cross and there's no reason for them. Nothing to put around. They don't know what they're doing anyway.

way. Yeah, they're screwed anyway, and they didn't your GM. Phoenix, why would you? What, what happened to you? I thought you loved him. It's a big risk. You know, you don't want to give up anything for him anymore. I thought you loved Boogie.

I would want to get something up for him. If you're Phoenix, why would you? Because how else are you getting a superstar if you're the, I mean, drafting them? Because they could have jumped. Okay, well, how about this? What are the chances Vladi Divog did his due diligence? on this. I think he did. I think he called would you have? They don't have. That's what I'm asking you.

You would have put Ingram in the trade to get him. Fuck yeah. What are they doing? Anything? I think he's one of the youngest players in the league and I mean just seen, well he's one of the youngest players in the league. I think Ingram's going to be awesome. I do. He would resign with me in in L.A. I mean, I would be rather confident. Yeah. I know I could go that then I'd go get another free agent. Now I've got to build him black. He is, well, you know, the crazy thing is when you see him in person, I saw him in person earlier this year, he is

freakishly long. Like, it's almost like, it's almost like subhuman, right? And when you're that big and you can shoot and you've got the, you know, he can dribble, he can't shoot, he can do everything I need him to do. He's just frail now. I think he's the kind of guy that puts on a bunch of muscle. He could be, I mean, I think like when he grows into his body, I think Ingram can be unbelievable. I really do.

I think he could be an all-star. I hope you're right. I actually hope he did around. Yeah. Well, maybe Magic thinks that Brandon Engram's going to be really awesome. I'm conferred with Robert Henry, Jamesworthy, and Norm Nixon, and they all collectively decided

that it makes sense. I love Magic Sing, check out, because it wouldn't give it the pick. I don't get a player? No, I need a player. I need a player, right? Like, again, I don't... Is it Denzel or Darnell? It's Denzel Valentine. Denzel Valentine.

All right. I had it. Who's Darnel Valentine was another player? I'm so old now. I get guys. Yeah, anyway. And Denzel Valentine's roughly the same age as Boogie, unfortunately. Yeah, Denzel Valentine is this point guard.

It's basically like this. And there's obviously a great concern that his knees have about four years left on him. Right. Okay. Okay. Well, the Kings have like six centers. What else were they going to get? If Brandon Ingram wasn't on the... Do you have any problems with Boston not getting in the mix?

Okay, but what are the chances... Let me put devil's advocate on that. What are the chances that that that picks better than him, honestly? Statistically? No, I'm saying a better player. The chances that that whoever you take one, two, or three is going to be a better player than DeMarcus cousins. Like what? Like 10% chance maybe?

What if you think? And you're looking at it. Steven's Brass. I think it's a big risk on NBA.com. Would you give up more for Butler? If you would really do it. If I'm Chicago, there's no way I say no to that. To Crowder and the Brooklyn pick.

Crowder and the Brooklyn pick for Jimmy Butler? Yeah. Yes. The thing with Crowder. Yes. And you look at like the with the market. Right. I feel like you've kind of made a day.

You've kind of presented. the defense case. Like everybody's saying they got fleeced. Everybody's saying that they got, you know, that they got messed up in this deal, Sacramento. But I feel like you've kind of made a defense of Vladi Divac and Vivek on this. Wait a second.

I forget that part. They gave up one of the best 12 players that league. If I'm New Orleans. Now, all right, what do you think the chances in New Orleans is, you know, that he's in a Pelican's jersey next year? No center can match. For sure, but here's the thing. When you ask me what I trade for him, I guess it depends on do I think I'm getting him for 25 games?

I mean, if I'm the Pelicans, I clearly think I've got a good shot at resigning him. And I can give him more money. He's not a free agent this summer. They know that have him for a year and a half. Right. 2017 draft. So did Sacramento, like, did they like literally just save this dude's job? Because everybody's been about to run Del Demps out.

Oh, this is a waste of Anthony Davis's career. And now he pulls up a trade for DeMarcus cousins. I think you're – you seem super conflicted on this. I think on one hand you think – You say he's one of the best 12 players. And if Westbrook is kind of unstoppable rebound in, too. By the way, here's the one thing that we have not mentioned regarding the whole Celtics thing, right?

Which is the guy you just mentioned who's like – What is he second in the league? NBA in scoring, he's average like 30 a game. Like, we already tried the whole Isaiah Thomas boogie thing. Like, we did this at the beginning of the... Right, right? So, my best guy, now I'm going to pair him up with a guy that... Let's just act like they hated each other, even if they didn't.

But it didn't work. I think... It is an interesting question. I don't think... You think Chris Paul wants to go back to New Orleans, though? Oh, good grief. I don't know. I would... I think the Clippers...

Houston. Houston. Yeah, they had to play huge. You touched. Okay, so Boogie was the big name that got moved, and it got moved way before the trade deadline. Is there anybody else, if there is somebody big, you think Butler, obviously you mentioned,

you think Butler would have a chance of move. Are we for sure Carmelo's going somewhere else, or do you think he ends up just staying there and using his no trade? One thing, trade deadline bag. In Denver? Moody. Moody? Will Barton?

Wil Barton? Will Barton, pretty good. Oh, Farreed. I wouldn't trade Wilburton, though, would you? I'd keep Wilburton. Farid is another one. But Denver could be a broad.

Zero of the teams in the week. How dare you? How dare you? Ninety four million for Chandler Parsons. Oh, my God. Kill John Hollinger's archives. 94 million for Charlie Persons. Come on, John Hollager.

Oh, my God. You pay 90.9 for his Instagram account. I swear, I swear, hey, I swear last week, I said, I said on a local thing that I do, I said, let's just hope he doesn't end up in, you know, Mexico for the whole All-Star break, right? And I swear to God, I woke up the next morning. And there was an Instagram post with him and all of his friends wearing hats that say Chan Coon on them. They had had hats.

I know. I was like, oh, for God's sakes. I loved it. The Grit and Grind thing makes so much more sense when you're there. I would not say that Chandler Parsons really fits into the whole Grit and grind. You don't? You don't think so? No, it's not really what the locals have fallen in love with over the last few years is the guy doing the Chancun T-shirts.

You don't think that it fits with Tony Allen and Zach Randolph? No. No. I mean, you know, the... What? It's kind of odd, man, because I feel like after, again, you would have to have like a turned ankle or somebody going out for Golden State. But if they lost one of the four guys, right, then you might have a shot at them. But I don't think anybody after them, like, I think it's different than last year, where San Antonio was having this totally historic season, like literally one of the great seasons in NBA history. I kind of feel like after Golden State, it's everybody else. And so you might be one step.

You might be one step from the West finals or even being in the NBA finals. Like that would be they're the only insurmountable one. That's why I kind of think this trade deadline could be insane because last year, I just know from the perspective of a lot of teams, they were like, F it. Like, you know, it wasn't one team they had to get past. It was two teams they had to get past. and they knew that, all right, fine, even if we get past one of those, we're not getting past the other one, so screw it.

We're just going to stand pad and try for next year. Whereas this year, I don't know. What Houston has to get Gordon and Anderson gets them, you almost have to do. Nick Hardin's a tough matter to being as good as Goldstein. You know, nobody's talked about him as an MVP, but the defensive player. Yeah, but the problem is the second guy. Who's the second guy? Is it?

I mean, you're going to count on Aldrich for a whole playoff series? I know. I think he is who it is. and really try to win. Well, Popovich, he tried everything last year, right? You remember? I mean, he was going, he was going, he didn't play Duncan at all, and then he started Duncan, and then he tried Bobon, and that didn't work.

And, I mean, it's not like he didn't try everything. He tried everything. And at some point, you just look over to the bench. You're like, all right, shit, I ain't got the goods, you know? He didn't have the antidote for them. And I don't think they'd do again. Okay, so if I say in the West, right, so, I think Golden State, you penciled them in and there in the West finals.

Anybody from 2 through 6. I don't think Oklahoma City could get there. But I do think anybody from 2 through 6, if you told me that they made it a Western Conference finals appearance, it would not be shocking to me at all. Like I think any of those teams would have a chance at winning two series. Oh, no. A second. I hate prize.

How dare you? How dare you? I'm sorry. I would be. I'd be surprised. I think it's Houston. The Clippers are San Antonio. How dare you?

And then the other side, in the east. Where do I go down to? I go Celtics. I go Wizards, Raptors, and obviously the Raptors just made that deal to get even better.

Is that where it ends? Okay, those four. Now, nobody... But what if Kevin Love can't come back like full strength, you know? That's the thing, man. They said, anytime they say 60...

All right, I'm winded. I shot my wide, Chris. I brought to the table. I knew I knew I could give you 50 good minutes, But now I need a sub. Last thing. Just wrapping it back around. All right.

So the final say on the DeMarcus Couss thing, you like it for New Orleans. You think that Sacramento got fleeced. But on the other hand, they probably didn't have a lot of options. Did I summarize that well? They're the one team that could have tried it in it. I'd say this, man, this is the ultimate league pass trade because those jokers, they're never on national television. So, like, people are just going to have to buy league pass so they can see cousins and Davis playing together.

Thanks for coming on the NBA show, man. Take a nap. Get a man. Thanks, Bill. See it. It's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. Join us tomorrow for Kevin O'Connor in his normal Tuesday slap.