The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 77: The Trade Deadline Extravaganza With Chris Ryan

Episode Date: February 23, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Chris Ryan discuss the quiet NBA trade deadline, the Raptors' acquisition of P.J. Tucker (8:00), the Lakers' activity level (14:00), Nerlens Noel's value (19:00), Lou Williams to the Rockets (28:00), the Celtics' assets (32:00), and the overall impact on the playoff race (38:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Dot com slash NBA. Thanks for your help. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon, and it is an NBA trade deadline spectacular today. We will talk about all the deals that went down today, and we'll do so with the ringer.com's only Chris Ryan. What's up, Chris? What's up, man?

Here we are in the nerve center. So we did not get nearly the... activity that at least I had anticipated at this trade deadline and surveying what did actually happen. I think I walk away. My first reaction was, wow, Oklahoma City really improved. Your first reaction to seeing all the deals that went down today? I got to say, this trade deadline, first of all, I'm tired of being Charlie Brown with

this Boston Celtics football. I'm so tired of like, be like, oh, my God, Danny Aange is going to trade for, you know, the ghost of Will Chamberlain. And it's like, it just never happens. I'm one of these days. But for me, one of the big takeaways I'm going to have from this is Presti. Guys like Sean Marks making like the, you see one, the certain level of GMs separate from the others. You know what I mean?

The guys who just like, even if they don't have anything, are able to make something out of nothing. And how Sam Presti is walking out of this trade deadline with two really useful rotation players for a team that was super thin is beyond me. Well, I'm not really sure if a campaign is going to end up being, I don't know if I'm going to look up in three or four years and campaign's going to be a starting point guard in the NBA for somebody. Not to mention, maybe not a good team. So that's the biggest thing that he gave up. On the other end, he gets Todd Gibson, he gets Doug McDermott, as you mentioned, two rotation players. And I think just for this particular season, we'll see what happens with Todd's in the off season. But for this particular season, like a win now proposition, I think this makes them a lot better.

And I thought it was going to be Utah, the Clippers, and the Grizzlies all fighting for four, five, and six. Then Oklahoma City would be the presumptive seven. But now I think Oklahoma City's – now we've got this – if we say there's three teams that have separated themselves at the top, the Warriors, the Spurs, and the Rockets, I feel like the next four all have a shot at that four seed now for the Home Corps. advantage slot. Absolutely. And then you look at like what the Thunder did. Don't even just look at the numbers. The Thunder of them missing a locker room presence like a Kendrick, since Kendrick Perkins left. They now have like that veteran who's been there like Todd Gibson. It's not, you know, Taj isn't going to change the culture entirely, but he's definitely a steadying presence.

And Doug McDermott is a really useful shooter for them to have in their arsenal. I mean, he's probably got a little bit more going on than Anthony Morrow. Yeah, they are in the conversation. I mean, to some extent you could say that we're just rearranging deck chairs on the top. Titanic because the Warriors are going to smoke anybody they see. And if not, it's going to be the spurs the rockets. But I like the fact that the Thunder aren't like, oh, we're going to give up. I'm sure that matters to people like Russ. I think they could absolutely put the fear of God in somebody in a first or second round series.

Because Todd is, he's a kind of guy I want to go to war with in the playoffs. And McDermott, you know, he's only taken like four threes a game or something like that. But if we up that a little bit and we get him to the. to the levels where he's shooting, you know, six and seven, maybe even eight threes a game. Much like how Westbrook or, I'm sorry, like Hardin or Wall gets these guys wide open threes all the time. So in Houston's case, it's Gordon and Anderson. In Wall's case, it's Auto Porter. You know, part of why Auto Porter is shooting so well from three-point range to hear Jared Dudley tell me a couple weeks ago

is because he's wide-ass open all the time. Well, if I just said, hey, Doug McDermott's going to get to take a, a ton of wide open threes. Like, I love that as a player, right? Absolutely. If you're just shooting wide open threes, he's super useful. It's in some ways you always have to, you can't just judge like it's the player for player swap.

It's also a situation for situation swap. And for McDurner to be coming into that situation to be already, now he's like thrown right back into the playoff race. He's got a second chapter to his career. And with Taj, you know, he has the continuity. I just think he's going to get, he's going to have every opportunity to have a successful and be a career now. So we both really like what Oklahoma City did with this deal.

The other element to this, if you've got to bring up, what the hell are the Bulls doing? So I think that this is part of a larger conversation about a bunch of different teams here, including the Sixers, where it just feels like the Bulls was too little too late in trying to get something done. Maybe they had preliminary talks for a while or something. But it felt like the Bulls were a part of a bunch of different deals today that didn't happen. And that this is the one that did. but that this was kind of part of a, let's clear out some space to bring in other players, or whether it was going to move Jimmy or not. And I think one thing we'll be talking about for a while, the deals that didn't happen.

And I know that the Bulls, like we've seen reports now, that Joliel O'Kifor was involved in a trade that would be Celtics and Bulls, sending Butler to Boston and Jolil to Chicago. There was probably a lot of things happening. So what the hell did the Bulls do is as much about what the hell the Bulls didn't do. So you, oh, this is interesting. So you think that they were, that that was a deal that they were making. And obviously they did it on its own anyway. But the expectation might very well have been, okay, we're fine with this deal, even if the other stuff doesn't go through.

But that the reason or the reason for doing the deal is because they were figuring other things would come through. Yeah, because I understand, look, what's the point of getting, we're McDermott and Taj the problem here? Like, Taj is like a locker room favorite. McDermott, I know, hadn't gotten along great with some of the guys on the team, like at least reportedly. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to be getting rid of these pieces unless they don't have a direction here. They get a second round pick. That's not building for the future. I think that those guys were going out because the Bulls were expecting to bring more guys in.

That's just a feeling I have, especially coming from the Philadelphia side and the incessant rumors you were hearing about Jaliel going to Chicago. So I just think that there's something else didn't come off here. You said earlier that you think that GMs can separate themselves at this time. Messiah Yuri is one of those that is always seemingly in the mix and attempting to improve his Raptor's team. He had already swung the Abaca trade, and then he's able to get PJ Tucker today, which is this is not going to be a huge deal on your average NBA fans radar. But I think this is a good deal for them that could really help the Raptor. This one's strictly for league pass heads.

Yeah, but I'm a PJ Tucker fan. For sure. I think he's a really good. Again, that's another dog, the kind of guy I want when it comes playoff time. I saw him in person about a week and a half ago, and he is built like a damn linebacker. So it's like, it's basically this, right? Do you or do you not think that the calves are susceptible, like are vulnerable? And obviously, based on the deals he just made, Maasai does.

Because Maasai loaded up. Boston stands pat and is going to go to war with the guys they have. But I think that Messiah is thinking, like, I like my odds in a seven-game series against Cleveland adding these pieces. And even though he's sacrificing a little bit of flexibility, what's he really giving up here? Future seconds and Sondner, who was never going to see the floor in the playoffs anyway? Literally nothing. They could help them this year. Yeah.

Salinger, as you said, Salinger was not going to help them. And you better believe P.J. Tucker is going to be in that. rotation. Hell, if PJ Tucker's starting by game three of a series, it would not shock me. Yeah, and I also love when a guy who's been in the basement gets to go up to the roof, and, like, you know that PJ Tucker's going to be excited to be in the playoffs and be in the mix. Yep. So that's one that could shake things up. And then the other two teams that we would think, if we're talking about Cavs competitors, right, the other two that would come to mind to the other two that are up there, which are Boston, which you said stood pad and you feel like

Charlie Brown every year with them. The other. the one is the Wizards. And they did something very, very minor in getting Bagnanovic from Brooklyn. And that was a few, that was actually yesterday. They gave up Andrew Nicholson. They gave up Marcus Thornton. They gave up a first-round pick that was lottery protected, did the Wizards. But they end up with Bohan Bagnanovich. So again, it doesn't feel like that's very, very minor. It doesn't feel like that moves the needle at all. And obviously nothing moved the needle on Boston. So it feels like if we're saying Oklahoma City moved their needle the most in the West, feels like Toronto, by a wide, wide margin, moved their needle the most, right? Toronto and Oklahoma City both said, like, they ignored the outside perception of where those teams were. I think, I mean, Toronto was slipping a little bit towards the All-Star break, and you could make the argument that people were like, well, you know,

the Dwayne Casey, it's been grinding gears a little bit. They have the same end-of-game plays over and over again. We wrote about that on the ringer. They mix it up. They're going to come at the second half of the season with some new. weapons. With Oklahoma City, it's the same thing. They're going to make a run at the playoffs with some new weapons. For Boston, I guess they like what they have, and I guess that they think that the summer market is just going to be better once those picks all settle, which I think is the other

big storyline coming out of this. But I happen to just be, if I'm a Raptors fan, I'm very encouraged by the fact that Messiah is not thinking in terms of like, oh, yeah, 2013, 2020 when LeBron has got a couple more miles on him. That's when we'll get into this. It's now or never. These guys are all reaching 30. Kyle Lauer is 30. This is a really good Raptors team. You should take a shot. All right. So those are the two biggest ones where the Oklahoma City deal and then PJ

Tucker ending up with the Raptors. He got all this minor stuff. He got Mike Scott traded to the Sons for cash. So what. I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what it means either. Tyler Ennis to the Lakers, so Magic and Daryl were having fun on the phone together.

I would point out that Rob Polinka has three three players on the Rockets. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So we got the Lakers get Tyler Ennis, the Rockets, get Marcello Huertes, who is going to be waived. So that's a nothing, right? Yeah, and hearing that, the Rockets are a Bogot destination. Ooh.

Yeah, because they have the most cash on hand. I think they have the most cap room of all the contenders. So that he is a, he is, the Rockets are a Bogot contender for that. Wow. I thought maybe that was the Boston move. To get Bogot. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.

They need somebody who can grab some damn rebounds for them. That's the issue, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't trust Bogot as far as I could push him in terms of staying on the floor and staying healthy. I guess he'd be nice to have as an option. For the Rockets, I mean, I think the Rockets had a great trade deadline. Oh, for sure. They did. The Lou Williams thing, which we'll get to, that does move the needle.

A couple other minor things. Roy Hibbert to the Nuggets. Yeah, just, I was just today I was just thinking like, man, isn't it insane that Herbert and Lance and, you know, like all these guys who were a part of an Eastern Conference game 7 team are just like on their way out of the league.

Oh, that is crazy. It's just wild that that Pacers team, West is basically ancient. George Hill is doing great. Paul George is doing really well, great. But, you know, the other parts of that team are basically out of the league. Yeah, that's not a fun reunion to have, right? We're going to celebrate that team. No. No. No. kind of guys that have been a little down on their luck.

To the bucks, it's a heavily protected second-round pick. Now, I just want to piggyback on this because that trade is not totally significant. But as I mentioned earlier, if I'm throwing Oklahoma City in the mix with the other teams in the West from four down that are going to be able to compete for home court advantage, you then have passed that this eight-seed, which now sits with Denver, the team that just happened to get Roy Hibbert. I'm throwing out, I'm saying that the Lakers and the Kings, who I think will fall back and the Sons, I think those are the only three teams that have like no shot at the playoffs right now. Yeah, so you've got these other five teams.

And when I look at those, Denver got Roy Hibbert, Portland and swung that Nirkich trade. So they got a big guy. New Orleans got Boogie and Dallas got Nerlands-N-O-Wel and Minnesota did nothing. So you have these five teams that are all competing and all of them got big guys. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously the big guy market was in a lot of flux because I don't think that Philly got, I don't think Philly found the market that they wanted for either Noel or O'Kifor.

And I think that's part of the reason why there was so much confusion about what the plan was here. Because obviously there's some thoughts that Calangelo waited way too long to do this. But yeah, the big man market was really strange. It seems like that's the only people. And that makes sense when you think about where the game is going because people are holding on to three and D players. You don't want to give up a Jimmy Butler or a Paul George because that's basically the paradigm for the way basketball is played right now is to have that kind of guy who can guard three to four different positions. But man, I mean, like, if I'm looking at the eighth seed, it's probably the most interesting storyline in basketball right now.

And I think everybody is kind of assuming the pelicans are going to get it. But it could take some time for a boogie and AD to do it to get to figure it out. Okay, let's start with this on the Philly side of this. Are you a Presti truther, the process? Like a hinky guy. Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, yeah. I always screw that up. I always say hinky and I mean hinky.

I would call myself, I mean, I'm very hinky-friendly, and obviously that I don't think that I had a lot of affection for the end of, and this makes me sound even crazier than a hinky fan, but I had a lot of affection for the playoff Doug Kowler. teams like the Iguodala Evan Turner Drew Holiday squads just because I just like like those dudes a lot so I was really took me a while to come around to the idea of just like completely bottoming out but clearly you know like um beat is is a miracle and so I think that he's that a lot of what Sam was talking about was wound up being right but here's the most

interesting thing that's happening in the Philly fan community right now right do you basically over-covet your assets. Is Ben Simmons more important than getting a chance at Paul George? And there's a huge contingent of guys who are like, no, the whole point of getting all these picks of getting guys like Ben Simmons, even on your

roster, is that you can make the move for Paul George or Jimmy Butler when they become available. And that was there was a lot of talk about Philly getting in on the Paul George, basically blowing Larry Bird's doors off with an offer for Paul George. And it was like, you got to go for it. He is a top 10

player, top 10 two-way player for sure. And that's the kind of guy you trade the farm for, almost anybody but Embed, is up for grabs if you want that. And then there are some people are like, no, because in three years, we're going to have three all-MBA players. And, like, Hinkie saw it coming from 20 years away. So it's like a really interesting conversation happening within the Philly fan base. Okay. Do you think that New Orleans-Noelle not getting, I mean, I would say it's a paltry return when you're getting a guy that you're waving? Right? Yeah.

You're basically trading New Orleans for Justin Anderson and a second round pick is what it sounds like. And that there wasn't, and I know that it's not hinky pulling the deals now. But the fact that the trade market wasn't really there for Noel and Ocalfour, isn't that a bit of an indictment? I think it's an indictment for the way that Ocalfour and Noel have been handled as far as being assets. If they're assets, you try to maximize their value and sell them at the peak of the market. He's selling, like, he probably could. can get that deal for Okifor. There was talk about like Denzel Valentine, you know, from Chicago and maybe some other

pieces. I think McDermott was involved in some rumors there too for Okifor. But look, this is what happens when you depreciate the value of an asset. And this is kind of like what I see a little bit happening with some of Boston's guys, because the more that Boston doesn't make a move, I know that those Nets picks are the most valuable part of it. That seems to be the thing that they don't want to part with. But there is a degree of which players depreciate.

appreciate. Guys get closer to needing to getting to getting to get extended. And that's part of the problem with what happened with Noel. He was up for, he's up for money. He's restricted. But, you know, if they're not in love with him and he's not in love with Philly, maybe this was just, this was like last chance for them to get a return on him. Well, and I would say most in the basketball media community are much, much higher on

New Orleans Noel than I am. Yeah, because the advanced analytics for him are insane. And he's got like. I get it. But I just don't like, guys like him. Everybody wants these rim runners, finishers, you know, these, they want to fancy themselves, like the D'Andre Jordans and the Tyson Chandlers of the world, right? Yeah. And many times, they're more like Javall McGee.

And I'm not talking Javall McGee this year for the Warriors. Sure. Peaks Javille. Yeah. And guess what? You get into these playoff games, and they come down to the last five minutes of the game, and you can't play the guy. You know what I mean? Like the guy, when it matters most.

you can't have him on the floor because, God forbid, somebody foul him, and he's got to make free throws or something, right? And so I've just never been nearly as infatuated as what guys like Noel bring to the table. Maybe he ends up being a lot better than I think he's going to be. And I don't know about that. And I kind of like Justin Anderson. I did wonder, did Dallas finally hit another draft pick again, which they very rarely have over 10 years? Did they hit one again and just do the Jay Crowder deal, right? where we're going to look up and be like, damn, man, they gave up, you know, Jay Crowder.

Like, damn, man, they gave up Justin Anderson. And I don't know if Justin Anderson could be Jay Crowder, but the book I don't think's been written yet. That might have been a good return, honestly. I hear your, all your points are valid, but can I just say something to Dallas fans as a Philadelphia fan? Yeah. You're welcome. First of all, New Orleans is almost a 70% shooter, free throw shooter this year. You're not going to have to worry about that that much.

This dude is a beast defensively. the one thing. I mean, I know Dallas has been missing a lot, and they've been kind of a clown show for a while in terms of some of the roster moves they've made. But they have needed this guy, the rim-protecting, athletic guy, to roll off of all the stuff that Carlisle is running.

They are going to, like, this is a match made in heaven. I can't. You like him a lot. You like, no one. And I think Nerlins and Barnes, like, I think Nerlands and Winski is a very, very nice front line. Hmm. Well, he did have,

Listen, he had a bunch of good games going into the break, right? He was double digits in those last four games, which probably helped a little bit towards this. And he wasn't – and they played him more minutes. He was finally getting those last three games, which you could say was probably pre-planned. But he played 32, 28, 31 minutes in those last couple of games. And this guy – he's doing that. He's wanted – he's made it pretty clear that he was not happy with the Philly situation. I mean, he's – you know, there's all –

sorts of stories about like what could or couldn't have happened and why it did or didn't happen and his sort of weird elective surgery that he had you know earlier in the season but as far as what i've seen on the court and and just based on like his relationship with imbid which is very close he's just a beast man and dallas has not had this in a long time and this isn't brandon right like this is a really really really good big man they got now how dare you i'm saying how dare you slander brandon right how dare you but think about brandon knight it's like all they just needs somebody to flush it, man, and New Orleans can do that. Brandon Wright was great for Dallas.

I know, and I'm saying they haven't, he was like the last great big man they've had, and he's even better. All right. They have had, there's no doubt, they've had a lot of success with the Tyson Chandler, Brandon Wright, Merlin's Noel type of guy. Chris, just one thing, it sounds like Darren Williams is going to Cleveland. Really? Yeah, so if you want to add that in.

For nothing? It's working on his exit from Dallas and is looking to join the Cavaliers. AP sources. Wow. You know, so I can't figure out, I guess Dallas is, I've got them in the mix as a team that could possibly be, you know, fight for that eight seed this year. But I guess they're just going to turn it over to yogi, yogi. Yeah, man. You know, this year.

And his two-year deal for like three-mill. Yeah. All right, so now we've got to figure this out. Oh, God, man, Darren Williams, really? Yeah. It's going to be a calf. That's good for the calves. Yeah.

shit. That's what Jarks just said. This is basically an awesome version of Deladova. Yeah, they can play him alongside Kyrie too. Yep. Because he's big enough. Wow, that's a heck of a deal for them. Pays off to be awesome, right?

Yeah, seriously. You get guys like that just signing up to play with you. Absolutely. Damn. All right, well, let me get back to the whole eight-seat thing. So we got Denver, Portland, New Orleans, the aforementioned Dallas Mavericks, and the Minnesota it didn't do anything.

After this is all shaken out, obviously the one that attained the best player by a wide, wide margin is New Orleans with Boogie, but you expressed a little earlier that there might be some growing pains, and there's not a tremendous amount of time for said growing pains. Do you think, who gets that eight seed? I ultimately think it's New Orleans. I just think that everything about basketball tells you if you add, if you top 15 NBA players on the same team,

going to be really good. And as long as holidays stays healthy, I think the Pelicans will get it. I personally am just like, I've just become like a complete Yokch believer. So I think the Nuggets would be the Pelicans' best competition for that. There's something just off about Portland's juice this year. Like, it's just not. His name's Evan Turner. Yeah, it's just not the look this year.

I don't know what it is. They'd looked better without Lillard to me. And now I just think that this is, this is, this is, the pelicans have the road there is Holiday can stay stay healthy and they can figure out who stands where I don't really you know they'll get that eight seat seems like Portland's always

active and I was kind of surprised that they weren't in the mix on anything today there was a really funny moment last night where Drumand, Andre Drummond tweeted out some like proverb or something like it was just some like generic quote and then right after that McCollum tweeted out the like emoji eyes and you know in Zach Lowe's

piece about the Pistons last week there had been some talk about a McCullen for Drummond Swap. And, you know, I don't think that Portland can do much more until they decide whether or not this is going to be CJ and Dame going forward, or we're going to break that up to add to a team built around CJ or Dame. I think that's fair.

Which would you keep? Simmons was on with me earlier this week, and he said he likes... You like McCollum. You like McCollum. I like McCollum's game more as a person watching basketball. I acknowledge that I think Dame has a certain... charisma and a certain like franchise cornerstone thing. That's another one where though, like, you know, you were just saying where it's like

you just can't have both because you just, what NBA team is contending that doesn't have one perimeter stopper in their back court? Right. Even when you're talking about the best teams like Houston, they got that Pat Beverly next to the guy. Absolutely. Yeah. All right, let's get to the other minor stuff.

The other one was KJ. McDaniels. ends up with the Nets. So I'm just saying that's like, that's good GMing. Like, Sean Marks gets KJ out of nothing. And he also gets a late first round pick, which if you're the Nets, like, you're not even, you don't even need to show up at the draft for the most part. And now they get back into the first round, albeit Washington's protected pick. And they get a guy in KJ who the last time he was on a processe pace and space team had put up some big numbers.

So you like KJ McDaniels, okay I thought he played well for the Sixers I think he's like the typical guy If he gets like a lot of usage He's going to put up big numbers Yeah, you just wonder right Is he a guy that only gets good usage When he's on a crap team?

Sure, but like what are the Nets, right? Hey, they're a crap team And who knows, maybe the Nets can take him inflate his numbers And sell him high again in a year Erzano Ilyosov traded to the Hawks The Sixers got Tiago Splitter A 2017 second round pick

via Miami rights on an additional 2017 pick. I'm not even sure what's going on here. Like, sure, I guess. I think that this was another one of those Colangelo had a suite of deals that he wanted to execute, and this

was one of the dominoes, and then the last two dominoes didn't fall, and that's why Jal Ocifor is somehow still a Sixer, and we're looking at Justin Anderson and Tiago Splitter on the Sixers. I mean, is Splitter going to get bought out? What's going on with that? He has to, right? Well, what's the point?

I don't even remember the last time I actually watched Tiago Splitter play basketball, to be completely honest. San Antonio? Yeah, yeah. So I think the Sixers had a series of deals that they wanted to execute and that they just didn't come through. Remember when that was a big deal? They were like, ooh, look at Boodenholzer, getting his old Spurs guy and Splitter. Like he had. Yeah.

Right. That was before Muscala came through. Yeah, right. And then, okay, we already mentioned the Baganovitch one. And then the other one that we've got to mention, which took place earlier in the week. week was the Rockets getting Lou Williams. Yeah, man. Let's score 150 points a game.

Yeah, we both really like this. One of the big things is, can you get hardened on the bench for four or five minutes without losing your lead or getting in a position where you've got to come from behind? Like, it feels like there's going to be those times where Williams just comes in and he's going to fill it up for you. And then there's going to be a lot of nights where he can just hold down the ford while you're giving Harden a blow. I mean, it's obviously, it's a very, very good deal, I feel, for the Rockets in terms of the way they play. And it gives them another guy. You know, it's not, you expect kind of to get 30 or so out of Hardin. And then if Eric Gordon has 30, it's not the most shocking thing in the world. Or if Ryan Anderson had a 30-point night. And you've got another guy now that could, he could feasibly get you 30 on a given night in Lou Williams. Any one of those guys could be cold on any given night, but not all of them. And that's the thing is. is that, like, would you be surprised? I've seen this, this is not an original thought,

but would you be surprised if in the playoffs where, like, damn, Lou Williams just won that game? Absolutely not. Yeah. I've seen Lou Williams, like, just black out. Like, Lou Williams could definitely win you a playoff game. And if Hardin's having a bad night, like, some night, like, that is incredible insurance to have.

There's always those guys, always, on any really good team, right? That you're that third guy. And so. It's the Clay Thompson. It's the Jamal Crawford. it's like, oh, you know, like our main two dudes were having an off night, and then all of a sudden this guy came through and scored like 32. Yep.

I mean, I've seen it's funny because Reggie Jackson's name came up earlier in the week. And I always have this inflated opinion of him because I sat in arena and watched Reggie Jackson in a game that was like damn like 88 to 84 dropped 30 in a playoff game and just single-handedly knocked the Grizzlies out. And I was like, good grief. I'll always just, because I saw it, I witnessed it, and it was like a massive, massive performance. When you're all worried about, you know, Durant and Westbrook and then you got a Reggie Jackson that kills you, it feels kind of the same way for the Rockets that there's nights where you can cover up. Maybe you can force Hardin into a bad game, and Williams just gets it for you.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know what defenses you can throw it hard in the playoffs that he hasn't seen already, but you could, there's all sorts of things that might change. I just don't think you can guard all those guys, especially if you're like spreading the, them all around Horel or whatever. Yep. All right. So that was a deal that obviously took place with the Lakers. So Magic got a little involved, right?

He got the gig, and he did get a little involved. It was pretty much Rockets deals. So let's talk a little bit about this because the thing that's the most fun for me on trade deadline day, especially on trade deadline days where no trades happen of significance, is to kind of look at the tea leaves and see the leaks and see, like, who is trying to position themselves as what, right? And I think that you've seen over the last 24 to 36 hours is from wherever it's coming from a very, very significant amount of talk about Paul George just like wants to be a Laker. That has been emphasized in like media circles over and over again.

And that was not something that like I really felt like was being talked about this time last week. And now all of a sudden post magic, that is at least in the media. It's not necessarily coming from any of the people involved. But this is what happens when you get a regime change in a team like this, and especially when you get somebody who's like a name in bright lights like magic, it's going to start shaking things up a little bit. And the fact that we're even talking about Paul George being a Laker is pretty significant. Has anybody expressed why?

Because he's from Palmdale, I guess. Just because he's from California or he's from Palmdale so he'd like to be a Laker? Yeah, I mean, I think that this is the issue with – I mean, so much for, I mean, typically, right? Like, there hasn't been a lot of guys lately that want to be Lakers. Right. Exactly. And the last time that the Lakers put themselves in the market

and got any of the guys that they wanted, it didn't work out so well. But for the first time in a long time, I think the Lakers actually have some younger assets to trade. And then once they find out if their pick is in the top three and the ghost of Sam Hinkie doesn't steal it from them, they will be in the mix, you know, in trades this summer, I think. And I just think that that was just like the Lakers, part of the Lakers being in business is about the Lakers getting their name involved with major players. And in the past couple summers, it's been a joke. It's like they couldn't get in the room with KD. They couldn't impress Lamarcus Aldridge over the course of two meetings.

I'm not saying that's all going to change, but it's pretty interesting that they all of a sudden have become like the de facto Paul George home. Yeah. When we started this entire podcast, one of the first things you mentioned was at the trade deadline, you feel like Charlie Brown, regarding the Danny A. stuff. That is something we need to talk about a little bit. Because we've been talking about Brooklyn Picks and Jay Crowder and Marcus Martin, Avery Bradley, and all these different guys. And we know that they're set up right now. They are three games back from Cleveland, and they are in the two seed right now. And so I think we all thought,

all right, eventually it's just going to take. There's going to be, he's going to be, he's going to load up, he's going to throw a bunch of these assets, and he's going to get a big time proven star, and this is the time now, because maybe the door's, you know, a little ajar. Who knows with Kevin Love and if he comes back, and when he comes back, if he's full strength. And so what do we make of them, quote, standing pat?

I think it's a mistake, and I think that this is not dissimilar from what I was talking about with the Sixers, where you start to get a little over-enamored with your treasure chest, and you get a little over-attached to Nets, picks, which, sure, like, maybe Markell Fultz could turn into, you know, Magic Johnson, but Paul George is 26 and right there, what do you have the treasure chest for unless it's to get the treasure, right?

That's just my thing. I think that there's been like... Oh, listen, I'm with you. I argued with Kevin O'Connor so hard about this because I, I've lived through the sitting in the arena and sucking and getting draft picks, and it is not fun. Yeah. And there is no guarantee because. you've got to nail the pick

because sometimes you went through Hellenback and you wake up the next morning and you've got friggin Hashim Thabeed on your team. Right. Right. Or you've got, like Oklahoma City nailed it when they got Durant. Or like say Portland. They ended up with Greg Odden or like I don't need. So let's

say there's like that Brooklyn pick. That's like the thing that is always talked about. That was apparently like the thing that was a stopper on whatever according to numerous reports, It's always the Brooklyn pick. Okay, so it's always these math guy, right? Like, everybody is, and I'm not discouraging mathematics as a reason for making plans on things.

But you got like a 25% chance of getting the pick, right? Or roughly. Okay. Now, let's piggyback on that. What percentage then do you have of nailing it? And getting like a big time star. we would say, at best, probably 25%. I don't even know what that means.

Like, at the same time, all these guys that they're building their core, like this Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Marcosmar, Avery Bradley, Jalen, Bradley, half those guys are going to be restricted or unrestricted free agents in the next season or two. You're going to have to pay all those guys. Well, and maybe Fultz or Monk or Lanzo Ball or one of these guys become bona fide superstars. But they ain't Anthony Davis. No. No.

Right. They ain't Anthony Davis. And so it's not like you're, you know, it's not like the Anthony Davis draft. It's not the Carl Towns draft even. It's not even a guy like that where you're just like, well, that's your franchise for 15 years. That's right. I think that there's some really, really, really good players and I think it's a deep draft. But to me, we're getting a little inside of our own heads.

Paul George is Paul George right now, and he's 26. And if Boston's really good, they can probably talk them out of going back to the Lakers in a year or whatever, you know? why not give up the farm to get Paul George or to get Jimmy Butler, right? You're getting the top 10 to 20 player in the league. You know, it's always 12-dimensional chess with Danny Angel. It's always like the plan that we don't understand. And I'm not trying to mock them. But like the big three is almost the shadow that looms over Boston.

It's this like everything was set up. I was building towards this moment for five years. And that's how I got Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett at the same time. So who knows what their summer plans are, but here's what I will say about this summer, is that there's going to be a lot more players in the market in the summer because you're going to get your Miami's. You're going to get Los Angeles in the mix if they get their top three pick.

And there's going to be more competition for guys like Paul George and Jimmy Butler. And frankly, there's just not a lot of guys like Paul George or Jimmy Butler who are available. They're not going to trade Blake Griffin. Like they're not going to trade Chris Paul. You're not going to get anybody out of these teams that are contenders who have top teams. Like this is a once in a every few years opportunity to get a top 10 player, two-way player, on a team that's going nowhere and needs to reboot.

It's going to be really, it's not going to come around that many more times for Boston. They better pull the trigger one of these days. Yeah, because how old is Thomas right now? Because if the expectation is you're going to sign him up, right, after this time around. So you'd have, let's just say, he's 28. So you'd give yourself, I mean, just having Thomas and George on the team, You could build around that for what. You give yourself a four-year window at worst, right?

And that would put Thomas at 32, which, you know, post-30, you know, small guys. It's not a great record. But you'd still have a three, you would have this year and a three- or four-year window ahead of you where you know for sure you're in the playoffs and you would have a chance at building around that. Because you got Horford under contract too. To 2019, yeah, from 2019. So, I don't know. You got that triumphant?

If you had Thomas, George, and Horford, hell, Chris, me and you could play the other two positions. They win 50 games. Yeah, I mean, also, Danny is very good at finding guys like Avery Bradley, getting Marcus Smart, getting Jay Crowders. Like, he's good at filling up the roster with really talented role players. It's been getting this marquee guy. It's just been a while now. I just, you know, pretty soon, the idea of the Avery Bradley as a part of this trade, Avery Bradley's unrestricted, man.

It's coming up soon. Who are you going to pay here? And could you have sold high on these guys? Yeah. Last thing. All right, so we're saying Golden State, San Antonio, and Houston are going to be the one, two, and three seeds. We've got that four-team race, which I think we agree on is going to be for the four through seven, which is going to be the Clippers, Utah, Memphis and Oklahoma City. Right.

So the eight seed is up for grabs, and we both agreed on New Orleans after this trade deadline. We think they can get to eight. I agree with you on that. I'm also holding out for that just for that one game that New Orleans just takes it to Golden State in the playoffs, and we all lose our minds. Well, the one way, you got out rebound them, Chris. I know. No, listen, they're, what are they, like 31 and 0? There's something crazy.

Like, the only way you beat them is to beat them or kill them on the glass. Yes. And that is the good. If you ever could have a game where you could just grab 65 rebounds, it's when you've got a front court at David. and cousins. Yeah, and that's the only offense that kind of throws a wrench in the always switching stuff that they do. It's like, I mean,

Draymond can't guard both of them. Right. That's for sure. And they don't really, and like when your choices are Pechulia, Javall McGee, or, you know, Hobo to Clown or whatever. Those dudes average 54 points a game together. This is going to be awesome to watch. All right, so that's the West. In the

East, Cleveland, Boston, Washington, Toronto. We still think those are going to be the top four. Atlanta didn't do anything. Indiana didn't do anything. Chicago did, and they're right now at seven, and then Detroit didn't. So the only team that is five through eight

in the Eastern Conference that did anything is the Bulls, I think it's fair to say they got worse today. I'm so mad at the Eastern Conference because the teams that I want in the playoffs because I want to see the players on those teams in that kind of setting, I'm really worried that they're not going to be in there. But doesn't this open the door? This opens the door for the bucks, right?

Yeah, the bucks have to get their stuff together. Like, the bucks need to stop messing around with like winning three, losing five, winning three, losing five. Like, I don't, you know, like they need to go for it. God, I wish Jabari wouldn't have gotten rid for them. I know. I know. It sucks. Sucks.

Because if they had Jabari, Middleton, and Ante Tukwampo, I mean, they're only one game out of it right now. But the Bulls are going to fall out of the playoffs, right? What do you think? Are they? as opposed to And who's going to get in? Miami? No, no, no.

Milwaukee's not in. Yeah, I mean, you think the bulls and the, you think the bulls and the pistons are both going to stay in, or you think the bulls and the eight is up to? I think the pistons. I think the pistons will stay in. Yes. Okay. So we're saying that the eight is going to be the way it is now.

I'm saying, no, pistons could be seven. Okay. Right? Because the bulls are seven right now. I'm saying there's a spot open, possibly. maybe the Pacers too I mean hell I mean that's all bunched up

the ones that are on the outside looking in are the bucks the heat the hornets I don't think the Knicks the Sixers the Magic or Brooklyn's going to get in Yeah but I think the Hornets are going to crater You think the Hornets are going to crater

One and nine in their last ten They're one in their last ten You think they're going to I mean I think that they're going to continue to go down That their plot point two I swear to God The frigging MVP of the leaf we just did the whole value to team, I swear

every time I watch them, the announcers for that broadcast are talking about Cody Zeller, and they bring up these stats, and I'm like, Jesus, the guy should be the damn MVP in the league. I never knew how important Cody Zeller was to a team. It's unbelievable. Yeah, I don't, you know, I think it

would have been I think numbers are not bad with Cody Zeller. I know. I know. I mean, look, I just would love to see a playoffs. No offense to Pacers, Bulls, or Pistons fans, but I would love to see a pace or playoffs with the honest in it. Me too.

And I don't know what the hell's going on with the heat. I mean, they said they were on fire going into the break. So is that just everybody didn't give a shit and they caught fire? And I think that sponsors are really good now. And they just, they figure it out a way to win some games there. And if teams sleepwalk through their, I want to take a look at this heat schedule because if teams sleepwalk through this first few weeks of the All-Star break, it's going to be the teams who have their S together who are going to go for it.

You know what I mean? Like, Miami's not playing that many very good teams in the next couple weeks. They go Atlanta, Indiana, Dallas, Philly, Orlando until they get Cleveland in March, and they get two Cleveland games. But they can win out this month and just feel really good about themselves. Yeah, I couldn't. With both them and Dallas, and Dallas lost their last couple before the break. But it felt like, yeah, I just kept thinking, should I just suspend my thoughts on this?

Are they taking advantage of everybody just, you know, dicking around going into the dead line or to the break? or have those teams gotten way better? I think it's just like Spolstra getting half a season with this group of guys and working something out with the talent he has. And I think he's a good coach. I think they, you know, waiters can score. Whiteside is a good center. Dragage is a good point guard.

That's right. They got a good center. They got a good point guard. And waiters is like having this great season for them. Yeah, man. Yeah. Maybe so. They would actually, listen, playoff Dion versus Cleveland.

You get the whole LeBron back in Miami and playoff New York? There's always that thing where it's like, don't you wish that, you know, there could be like an expansion draft for the playoff teams to take somebody who didn't make. I would just give anything for Deion to make one of the playoff teams, man. I'm not ready to give them up. If Deion Waiters had like 35 points against the Cavs in like a game three of the playoffs. They'd have to start charging for Twitter if that happened. It would be the greatest thing ever, right?

All right, so we made the most of what was a... Listen, this is a crappy trade deadline. Are you going to get excited next year? Like, do you feel like you're going to... Are we going to be talking next year? I'm kind of done. No, no, I'm not going to talk. Listen, I'm going to do the whole...

I really pumped myself up for this. I was so excited. I stayed up late last night, woke up early this morning. I love trade deadline day. I love trades. Yeah. And then being let down again, next year, I'm just going to be like, Nothing's going to happen.

And then I hope, I mean, I really thought, like, Carmelo Anthony was going to get traded today. Me too. I mean, I didn't think he was going to get traded today. Yeah, me too. Yeah, nobody big got traded, right? Like, I mean, the biggest name is who? I guess. Yeah, but no, no, I'm saying today. Nerlands is the biggest guy today.

Yeah. Yeah. To the maps. Or PJ Tucker. If we're fighting about Nerlins or PJ Tucker, no. Well, wait. No, because who was the, who was the. first one I named. Oh, it was a Doug

McDermott. I guess, Doug McDermott. McBuckets? Yeah, but we're talking about McBuckets, New Orleans, and PJ. Like, that was our, that's how Paul George and Jerry Ballard. All right, but if I walked out on the street of the level of fame, well, maybe Roy, more people might know Roy Woodham. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know. If I just walked around on the street, Random City, USA, and I named off, who do you think the majority, the most amount of people would have heard of if we're just talking about the deals that we're done today, the maximum amount of people would have heard of who? Hibbert.

You think Hibbert? Over Doug McDermott and Nirland's Noel, yeah. Roy Hibbert was playing in the Eastern. What about Todd Gibson? I think it's Hibbert. I could be wrong, but I just feel like Roy Hibbert has been on a bunch of teams. It's actually probably Bogut. Oh, yeah, because Bogut was on the Warriors,

and he's just been around forever, yeah. And people remember him taking terrible falls and breaking his elbow. I mean, now that we're arguing about who's more famous between Andrew Bogart and... That's a sign. Yeah, we got to shut it down. All right, man. Thanks for having you.

Chris Ryan, you demand. Thanks, brother. Thanks for listening to another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.