The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 79: The Durant Ripple Effect With Tim Bontemps

Episode Date: March 2, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by The Washington Post's Tim Bontemps to discuss witnessing Kevin Durant's injury firsthand (5:00), the importance of the 1-seed in the West (8:00), Matt Barnes's role on the Warriors (18:00), LeBron's loss in Boston (23:00), contenders in the East (28:00), and Joel Embiid's injury-riddled career (33:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode is brought to you by our college basketball podcast. Teed up. As March Madness quickly approaches, make sure you catch Mark Titus and Tate Frazier on the Ringer University podcast. You can subscribe to Ringer University by going to iTunes.com slash The Ringer or wherever you get podcast. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me today is the National NBA writer for the Washington Post.

He is Tim Bontemps. Bontems. Bernhardo. Hey, man, thanks for coming on. All right, so you're in the arena the other night when Durant goes down against the wizards. Your immediate reaction, when you see Pechulia go into him and then it ends with Durant hobbling to the locker room. I was trying to figure what happened. I saw kind of the aftermath of him, you know, kind of grabbing at his knee.

The way the seating is set up there's bench and you're seated right above the tunnel where the guys come out on the court. And so we got a clear look at Kevin. He'd walk right under us. He was walking out of his home, his knee. He was like, he was walking under his own power, but he kind of just had his hand on his kneecap the whole time. Everybody just kind of, like, for a minute for what was a really hyped and excited, you know, and there was, you know, and obviously then, you know, even though it turned

into a great game, you know, really the focus of everybody there and what the MRI was all in would be sideline. What's that locker room like after it happens? It was like a morgue. I mean, I think, you know, it wasn't. really knew when the injury at that point. A clear idea of what was going on,

but it was, it really felt like, you know, I mean, you've been in locker rooms. It felt kind of like after a playoff loss, you know,

and it had nothing to do with the game. I mean, they weren't broken up by losing the Wizards, even though it was a hard fog back as did with him only, you know,

he'd reevaluated in four weeks and having a, you know, a great two sprain. And it could have been at the time. I think that everybody involved was quite happy that that was the, that was the outcome.

Yeah, because when he woke up the next morning, or at least the first thing I saw was Adrian Worgianowski, who's as good reporter as there is in the world, saying people close to Duran are really worried about this, that it could be months, not weeks, that he could be out. So that kind of sets the table for maybe the worst news, right? And clearly, there were people around Durant that were really worried about this. And so the MRI comes back, and then they announce it yesterday, and I suppose there's this. Because you're preparing for something.

something catastrophic, you know, regarding his, you know, maybe you lose a guy for the whole seasons or when you're talking about months or it could be an ACL or who knows, that it was this bizarre like, yeah, he's injured, but it feels like there was this massive sigh of relief. Okay, it's not that devastating. Yeah, I mean, talking to a lot of people, you know, I've got a sense from talking to people during the night on after the game. And the sense everybody, I was getting from everybody was that it seemed like it was probably a six to eight weekend. Even the sense on Tuesday night was that this wasn't going to be, like he wasn't going to be out for the season. It's still. I mean, eight weeks is two months. And if you're talking about being out for two months, that means you're into May.

You know, you're having a guy trying to come back in the second round of the playoffs, like that dicey. I mean, there could be a setback. I mean, you know, it's – so I wouldn't necessarily say he's going to come back any sooner than that now. I think, you know, the Warriors are already making it clear. They're going to be extremely cautious with him. And I would say, you know, assuming everything looks good in four weeks, my guess is they start ramping them up a little bit, and the goal would be, you know, have him back

by sometime in the first round so we can get some to sea legs under him a little bit, when they're probably playing a team with the clippers or the jazz, and then have him ready to go by game one of the second round. I think if he's 100% by then, I think that that'll be a win for them, and they'll gladly, you know, make do until then and then have him back for the final three rounds of the playoffs.

In that sense, it seems like it's really good timing if you're going to take an injury like this. On the other hand, and you kind of chronicled this, it's not a good time schedule-wise. Like, their schedule is really rough in March. Yeah. You know, they've got a bunch of games to get through. But, you know, at the same time, even if they're down a guy,

the fact that they have three other guys, you know, it kind of lessens to load. It's not a guy, Tim. You know, it's not a guy. I mean, he's a plus 15 net rated player. You know what I mean? They're 50. No, I.

Well, yeah, I know. But the whole point, Verno, what they did and going out. I mean, look, there were people last year that's 173 games to go get him, right? Like, why wouldn't you just roll it back? And I think, you know, this, the fact that he got hurt ironically kind of underscores why they were so insistent that this was the right move to make because, you know, yeah, he's obviously an incredible player, just like Steph Curry is, just like Draymond is,

just like Clay Thompson is. And the fact that have three of those guys to lean on, or four of those guys should say, if you do lose one of them for a while, obviously you don't want to lose any of them. but, you know, if you have three of those guys still left, able to play, I mean, you're still going to be, if not the best team in the league, one of the best teams in the league. And to me, I think as long as everybody else stays relatively healthy, I still don't think they're going to lose.

A four-game lead over the Spurs right now, it's hard for me to see them losing that lead over them for that number one spot in the Western Conference unless they start losing other guys, too. Yeah, and that would be, so a couple things on that. You know, one of the things that I think, I don't want to say everybody resents, but at least I do a little bit, was something that was so fun about the Warriors and watching them was this Curry going just absolutely insane over the last couple of years. And that's kind of been lost. We haven't seen those. And I do wonder over the course of the next, you know, six weeks, does Curry just now the load gets a little bigger on him? and does he remind everybody, hey, this is why he was the two-time reigning MVP.

Like, he hasn't had those games this year where you wake up the next morning. It's like, oh, my God, this guy hit 12-3s and had 51 points and whatever else. Do you think that we, you think that's what happens regarding Curry over the course of the next month to six weeks? I mean, I think that'll be a part of it. I mean, look, ever since the Christmas Day game, they really kind of run a lot more picking rolls. And I think if you look at the way they're moving forward, and then before you're going to have Draymont Green back as more of a distributor with the ball in his hands more.

And I think you think it will be a little, no, they haven't changed. I don't think a ton from last year. I mean, obviously having to rant there changes some things. But I think you're going to see, you know, a very, a lot more of a look like they did last year when, you know, Curry was, you know, had a crazy usage rate and was jacking up threes. And, you know, I think that's kind of how you see things about with them for a while.

You said you think they're going to hold on to the one seed. And I would say you're probably, I mean, that would be the odds for sure, given that there's not that many games in the season left. Making up four is pretty hard. And that, you know, they'd have to lose four and the Spurs be undefeated simultaneously through four games to make that up. But they do have two games left with the Spurs and they got some other hard games left. I actually think it's really important. I know everybody says, ah, well, as long as he's back by the second round. I kind of think it is important for them to really hold on to that one because four through seven is going to be any combination of the Clippers, Memphis, Utah and Oklahoma City, right?

Eight is a gimmy. Like I think they could sleepwalk through whoever gets the eight seed, they get sleepwalk through it and win that series. I think any of those other four that I mentioned, though, could win a couple of games against them in a first round series. And therefore, if you're talking about getting to a game six, as we know, anything can happen in these things. Somebody can punch somebody in the nuts. Something, you know, somebody can get hurt. Somebody can get suspended.

You just never know. If you get to that point where there's only a couple games left in the series, you never know what can happen. And I think without Durant, one of those teams could strike the fear of God in them. But that's why I think even without Durant, they'd smoke whoever's in the eight seed. I'm not so sure if they would if they were the two-seed. I think you're probably overstate a little bit in terms of the danger. Every extra game you have to play and you want to have a one seat

because not only for a couple reasons, the first reason is not only would you rather one of those teams are four to seven who are all significantly better than the eight seat. It looks like Denver will be the eight seat. They will crush Denver. I mean, Denver is a fun team, some fun young players of Nikolioch, but they play no defense. and that will be basically nobody's playing the playoff game.

That'll be a cakewalk. Those other teams are already more difficult. The bigger reason I think you want to avoid being in that is that you then would have to probably play Houston in the second round, and you have to play Houston and San Antonio to get to the finals. And for my money, I would much rather play, you know, whoever Denver is in our series against you, the Utah, the Clippers most likely. You'd guess that's probably going to be the four or five that it would be now.

I'd much rather have that path and say a Oklahoma City, Houston, I mean, that's a, you know, Oklahoma City would obviously be tough for a variety of reasons, but, you know, that Houston team, as we saw last night, where they routed the clippers, I mean, they're really, if I could avoid having to beat them at San Antonio to get back to the finals, that would certainly, to me, be a much more preferable route. You know, and they took that loss the other night to the Pacers, but they just missed a million shots in that game. Right. I mean, you see, like, nights like last night when, I mean, I think, I mean, just at the beginning of that game,

when it tipped off against the, when it tipped off against the clippers, I swear it seemed like seven of their first eight shots were all three. You know, like there's going to be these nights. Yep. No, totally. They're going to be awesome. I'm totally in on them. I'm all in.

I mean, if you're shooting, if you have good shooters and you're shooting 50, 50, five threes a game, I mean, if they just go, if they can just go 24 for 55 from three and three games in the series, you might win two or three of them. I mean, and then all of a sudden, you know, I mean, that's all that, like, they're, you know, guy for guy, they're not as good as Golden State. But James Harden is great.

They've got guys like Anderson and Gordon, and now they've got Lou Williams, they got all these guys that can score the ball. And they could, they could outscore even the team of my Golden State is very hot. So that's why to me, it's the big thing for them to keep that one seat is obviously playing Denver

as opposed to Oklahoma City or Memphis or Utah would be great. But to me, it's even more important for that second round to not have to beat them and the spurs. That's a tough road, say, potentially going Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland, say, and the final three rounds of the playoffs. Whether you have to rant or not, that is not an appetizing path to the title. So what was the mood yesterday after the news comes back? Is it just this, you know, exultation that, all right, our championship dreams aren't dead?

You know, because I'm sure that's when you said it feels like a morgan locker room the other night, you're just seeing your whole season flash for your eyes. Like, man, I don't know if we're going to be. It's one thing to be still really good. It's quite another to be able to win a title. And winning a title without Durant would be, I would not think they would not be the favorites if you told them they didn't have Durant. And so I can only imagine that yesterday there was probably in this bizarre way, maybe some level of celebration like, okay, we still got a shot at this. or this can still go like we thought it was going to go.

Yeah, I would say, I would say it was mostly just relief that it wasn't worse. I mean, it was, you know, like I said, he's still out for a while. There's still the potential for a setback. So I don't think anybody was, you know, dancing in the streets. But to your point, though, I mean, Tuesday night, nobody really knew what the deal was, right? So, you know, from their standpoint, it's like, all right, we, we should, you know, assuming nothing crazy happens, we should get our guy back here in a few weeks.

and, you know, given it at a word point, it look like it might be a, you know, yeah, Kevin, Kevin's going to be back in October situation, at least for a minute. You know, I think the fact that they know they should barring something weird happening and getting back, I think they'll be very happy with that. It's not something that people are really going to care about, but explain to me what happened with the whole Calderon deal, because they were going to bring in Calderon, and then there were these reports like, hey, there's some people in the front office that really liked Brandon, But they didn't know that Brandon Jennings were going to be available, and they were already too far down the road with Calderon. And then it kind of, I don't know, just putting the puzzle pieces together, it kind of feels like Calderon got the rug pulled out from under him when Durant got hurt and they added Matt Barnes. And so Calderon, who probably thought he had that gig all lined up, isn't getting it anymore, right? Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I mean, they moved out from Bronte Weber, and they knew Colorado was played out.

you know, they, obviously, they were going to sign, Colorado was bought out on Monday, he was going to clear waivers yesterday at 5, Wednesday, 10 o'clock Eastern time on Wednesday. Well, they're during the game Tuesday, so then all of a sudden, you know, they have to try to find a body to fill in minutes, minutes on the wing, because Kevin has hurt.

So then that's when they started calls to Matt Barnes, and that's why you saw it yesterday. Collarone got signed at about 6 o'clock Eastern time, and then he got waived at about 8 o'clock Eastern time. And the reason he got waived again yesterday, Warriors wanted to sign, they signed Callerone to give him the money he was going to get until the end of the season so they could promise to keep him, or to pick him up. And now Calderon has the ability to go out and still sign with somebody to be eligible for a playoff team,

whether it's Atlanta or Houston or one of these teams that only need another guard. He can go get some money and get some playing time somewhere. So that's why they kind of made good for everybody as best as they could in that spot. because normally, you know, they, you know, they wanted to, you know, they didn't want to completely let him hang out there in the wind, and they, they were looking forward to having him. Steve Kerr likes him. He was a good locker as a good shooter, so that was going to be a nice bit. Let's shift the barns and what's still do good by him.

And I understand what you're saying about Jennings. There was some talk about him, but, you know, at the end of the day, I'm in Washington now he's here. He's going to sign with the Wizards officially crazy hangups. I think that for Brandon, a guy who is in the middle of his career, it's trying to, you know, make sure he gets a good contract for next year. I think coming to Washington where he can play a ton of minutes behind, not a ton of minutes,

played pretty big minutes behind John Wall and be kind of a showcase and what should be a decent playoff run for them. I think it made a lot of sense for him to decide to join up with these guys. That's interesting what you say about Calderon. I think, I mean, that's obviously a sign of a good organization to do right by him on that because that's a, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, you don't want guys running around going like, man, screw them. Right?

They told me that I was siding there and then all of a sudden now I don't have a gig there anymore. But them giving Calderon money, even though he is not going to contribute literally anything to them, I mean, I don't know. I think it's praiseworthy, honestly, because it's a mercenary business and you could just say, hey, man, sorry, dude. It didn't work out. But the fact that they're paying him money because it didn't work out, I actually think is pretty solid job. the Warriors. I've got to give him some credit for that. It's kind of a, you know, a go-by-your-word thing, right? So you say you're going to sign a guy and then you go down it even if, you know,

obviously I think wow, team, man, makes some money. It's kind of a nice way to make it work for everybody in the end. Barnes is an ultimate plug-and-play player, right? I mean, he's been a role player and a willing role player his entire life. So he is one of those, much like a Tashon-Prince type, where you could put him on any team in the league and he'll find a way to fit in. Do you think he plays a lot? How do you think this goes without Durant? What's the lineup look like?

I mean, we're going to see him in action tonight. They're on the TNT game, I believe against the Bulls. What do you think the lineup slash rotation? Like how do they cope without Durant? Who's playing instead? My guess is he'll play Pat McCall. I've kind of plugged him in, whatever they've had to kind of plugged him in. So my guess is they'll play him.

I could see them once Barnes gets here. I could see them starting Barnes at small forward, and then to kind of give them some size at that position, and then they'll have McCaugh-Raeo doll off the bench. So I don't know how much the rotation will really change. Other than that, you know, Curry is still going to play the first quarter and the third quarter, and then he'll play parts of the second and the fourth,

you know, play the second half of each. And I think, like I said, I think Draymond's role will change because he'll go back to being more of the, you know, these secondary ball handle or that, you know, I think that's where that'll change a lot. But I think, I think Barnes, I mean, they clearly signed Barnes thinking they needed some minutes. So my guess is he's going to come in and he's going to play, you know, a good chunk of minutes for them. And, you know, like you had it in Memphis, he's played just about everywhere in the league at this point. I mean, he, you know, play him play a little defense.

So, you know, given the situation they're in, they needed somebody to stop up some minutes and Barnes should be able to give them that. God forbid Durant couldn't come back or is not going to be able to come back at peak. of powers, where would you put the Warriors without Durant? Are they better than the Spurs still? They better than Houston? I still think that they're getting to the finals. I think they're probably, if Cleveland's healthy, I think they're probably an underdog

against Cleveland without three of the 15 best players in the league on their team, even without Durant. It would be, the margin for error would be very slim, and it would be much more susceptible to losing to a team like Houston if they bombed in a bunch of threes or you know, losing San Antonio potentially, but I do think that they would still be the favorites, you know, with home court advantage to get to the finals, and then I think I would have them as a slight,

I'd have them as a slight underdog against Cleveland if Durant just didn't come back at all. Really? Wow. I am not nearly as high on them without Durant as you are. I do not think. I mean, they still have, they still have three. No, no, no, it's not about the three.

It's not about the top-level guys, though, Tim, for me. it's about the the shrapnel of getting a star like Durant is the depth that you sacrifice for that

until you don't have Well, okay, let me push back on that a little bit So essentially they traded Harrison Marns and Andrew Boggart

They also don't have spades and they don't have Barbosa and they don't have the guy like the guys that were part of that team but they have

but they have Julian David West who are different players than Andrew Bogan and most this season. What? Most Pates would come in and hit a three or two.

Not do what he was doing on defense and miss five shots. Wait, you would rather have Sazaa Pichulia and David West than Andrew Bogot and Mory Spate? Have you watched Andrew Bogan play this year? He basically didn't play the last two months for Dallas, and then he's now going to go to Cleveland and not play for the cats. I mean, Boggids, Bogots are against because he can't shoot at all. There were people who were a little panicky in Golden State about him

the first few weeks of the season. And once he's settled in, I think he's been a really nice fit for them. The physical presence inside, he gets a lot of offensive rebounds. He's very good. And David Weston, he's healthy, has been, you know, a beast for them. He comes in a place 10 minutes a game. I think that they're fine there. I mean, look, not having, not having Barnes.

Spock, because he was very good. You know, space on the floor is a small ball four and those bigger guys. But I think if you look at, I think if you look at their team overall, you know, they've largely replaced the guys they lost, and they still, again, have three of the best 15 players in a league. I think if you go down through the Western Conference, I would rather have those three guys as opposed to any of the three guys and any of the teams they're going to play.

And they're all going to play 40 minutes a game. I think their margin of errors a lot smaller, and I think they could lose, but I still would make them the favorites to beat any of those teams. All right, I want to ask you about some of these Easter conference teams at KF Celtics game last night, Lourry, the Ambide news. But first, a word from our sponsors. Ever find that when you're out of the house,

maybe relaxing with family and friends, you get that nagging feeling. Did I close that window? Did I lock that door? You just don't know when it drives you nuts. But you don't have to worry about that when you've got Simply Safe home security. It's a nice extra layer of protection to know Simply Safe is there. Because thanks to its arsenal of sensors intended to protect your entire home and keep your family safe,

SimpliSafe offers an extra layer of protection that will put your mind at ease. Just recently, SimpliSafe even released a brand new high-definition security camera that connects your security. system to your smartphone. That way, you can see everything that's going on to your home, no matter where you are, no more wondering. Best of all, SimpliSafe got rid of everything that makes most home securities such a pain. No long-term contracts, no hidden fees, they won't gouge you. And it's just 15 bucks a month. That's three times less than what other companies charge. Go check out the new camera today. You'll get an exclusive 10% discount when you go to SimplySafe.com slash ringer.

That's simplysafe.com slash ringer. All right. That being said, let me pivot to some of the stuff that has happened around the league. We saw last night the Cavaliers and the Celtics, and I could not believe this, but I read this morning that that was the first time that LeBron had lost in Boston since like 2013 or something. It's like 2017. It was the first time he had lost in that building.

So it's been a long time since the Celtics were able to knock off a LeBron-led team. They did last night. I know they were down the starters, and they were down without J.R. Smith and without Kevin Love. But was the Celtics win against the Cleveland Cavaliers last night, meaningful at all in your mind? I think it's a nice win for Boston, but I don't think it changes anything. I said it's not a no. It's a really nice win for Boston.

No, look, it's a really nice win for Boston. But at the end, I think Cleveland was missing, Josh Smith, and Kevin Lott, one-point game. You know, Boston's had a great season. I think they're right there with Washington, Toronto. It would be the second best team in the east to get to the Eastern Conference finals. It would be a great year for them. But I just think when push comes to shove, they don't have. I just don't think it'd be very competitive.

Okay. Which of those three do you think would be most competitive? Boston, Toronto, Washington. I think Boston, I think Toronto and Washington. Washington has a chance to be more competitive. I think Toronto, getting Serge Baccom, P.J. Tucker, you know, and again, now they have Kyle Lauer. I think that they have the pieces to be a little more interesting.

They have a little more scoring punch, obviously, than Boston does, and they have the ability to be a little bit more personal and defensively with, you know, to play Sergei Baccau, Patrick. PJ Tucker's a really nice fit for them, I think, and gives them the church, in case DeMarie Carroll isn't really there. So I like them, and Washington's interesting. Washington, I think, could give Cleveland some trouble. John Wall has been a monster, Bradvilleville, not a Porter,

of a great. They can bomb away from three. They've improved their depth. So I think both those teams can give Cleveland some trouble, but I just think at the end of the day, you know, if Cleveland gets Kevin Love and Jarrah Smith back, I think it'd be pretty shocking if it. Yeah, well, I mean, the question

is, do we at least get to see a game seven right, in Cleveland somewhere? Because I do think that would be, it's on the table that you could because once you get to six, right, then somebody's got to win a home game. Right. Right. So you get to And it's hard to knock somebody off in a game six on their home court.

It's also very difficult to win a game seven on the opposing team's home court. But I think what we're looking for is everybody at the beginning of the season said that both of these teams are prohibited favorites in their respective conferences, which they still remain to be. But could somebody take them to the brink and then who knows, anything can happen, right? Yeah, I think Toronto probably has the best. chance of doing that if I had to pick somebody. Say this team, this team has a question

slightly less, but I still would be surprised. I wonder how far Toronto is going to drop without Lowry. What do you think? I mean, they're right now a game and a half up on Atlanta. They're five games up on Indiana. So it feels like the most they would drop would be to five.

But it's hard to see them climbing and beat it. And, you know, they're three behind Boston. They're one behind Washington. Obviously, that game tomorrow night is huge. But what do we think happens without Lowry the rest of the way for Toronto? Do we think they, you think Atlanta

ends up being a home court advantage team and they overtake them? Or is you think Toronto is going to be able to hold on to that slot? If I had to guess, I would say Toronto lines a fifth. But I think the wild card there is Washington. Washington has a brutal schedule in March. They have 18 games in March, starting yesterday.

They have 18 games in March. They have 9 against playoff teams. They have 12 on the road. Six of those 12 rounds back-to-backs. Oh, my God. They have 18 games in the month? It's a brutal. It's a brutal, brutal month for them.

So, I think, you know, obviously, last night in Toronto was huge. I said to be in all the safe the night before, and winning a, you know, sweeping that back-to-back is probably one of the most impressive back-to-back. Even if you take away and get a game, and that's still those two very qualified. wins for them.

So I think that, you know, if they can get this win tomorrow and get a couple game cushion on Toronto, I think that'd be huge for them. But, yeah, I think that, I think that Toronto, assuming they win tomorrow, they can build a bit of a cushion, I think that'll be good. And then I think that, you know, I think that Toronto's probably going to be fighting with Atlanta for that four or five spot. And, you know, in any event, I hope that all I want is for those top four teams right now to get to the second round.

because in any combination, you know, even though I don't think Cleveland can necessarily be challenged, like the way we maybe like them to be, you know, I think if you have Cleveland, Boston, Washington, Toronto in some order in the top four seeds of the Eastern Conference on the second round, that makes for the final two rounds of the Eastern Conference playoffs being more entertaining and interesting than they have been in a really long time. You do not believe Atlanta, you don't believe Atlanta's in that mix. I don't think they're on the same level, no. I mean, I think, you know, as usual, Mike Booneholtzer does a nice job.

Paul Millsaps is great. You know, Dwight Howard's had a nice year for them. But I just don't really know if they're playing Toronto in the first round. We see them beating. If everybody's lineup at the same holds up with those other teams over the course of a playoff series. Last thing, Timmy. All right. So yesterday it was announced that Joe Embed was out for the rest of the year.

He only played 31 games. It was a spectacular 31 games by any calculation. That being said, the debate comes up. once again, right? Where the people that mock the process, you know, had a field day, the people that believed in it, you know, will come to its defense or whatever it was. But do you think that Embed being ruled out for the rest of the year and losing another year, and really we've gotten 31 games of a three-year career, does it change your opinion? The fact that he can't stay healthy, can't stay on the court, does it change your opinion at all about?

what Sam Hinkie did in Philadelphia? Not really. I think it's, I mean, the whole point of what he was doing was try to en masse as many chances. Any bites at the app was possibly to get star players, right? And what I would say that I'm doing, I think it, at the end of the day, I think it's, I think it shows that, you know, he was, in some ways he was right to think that you needed to because it isn't, you know, because guys have injuries, because guys get banged up. You're not sure.

even if you draft the guy with that kind of talent as well to stay on the court. I mean, look, they have Joel and Bean and Ben Simmons, who I think if you just lined up, if you just said anybody under 25, any 23, probably is better. If you could pick anybody under 23, who would you pick? Like, you'd think Ben Simmons and Joel would be

probably two of the top five or six guys taken, right? And they, you know, Joel's played 31 games in three years over the season. So it certainly underscores why Joel, you know, Joel has proven why he was worthy of the pick he was with the way he's played this year, there's also a reason why Cleveland that year didn't take him with the first overall pick. And that was because they didn't know that he could ever stay on the court.

For instance, he's going to be up for a contract extension this fall. Like, how can you possibly have no idea if he's ever going to be able to stay on the court? I mean, it just leaves near for Philly because, you know, the proof they can be able to do that. And I also wonder if it does detour people because whether or not people like it, people do look at results, right? I get the whole line of thinking, the scientific line of thinking, and you should judge the process rather than the results, that's fine.

But in the world of the NBA, and especially in owner's eyes, it's results. And so the sales job that a GM would have to do saying, hey, we should do it like this and just totally tank out to be able to get good picks and blah, blah, blah. I don't think somebody's going to be able to sell that to an owner ever again. I really don't. It's a hard sell, right? I mean, it's a hard-selling look. Well, he didn't even make it.

He didn't even make it through. He didn't even make it through, you know? Nope. Nope, he didn't. I mean, I think that's a sign that if you're going to do that, you know, you'd better hit on picks and you'd better have owners of believe in you. Yeah. Tim Bontems from The Washington Post.

You can follow him on Twitter at Tim Bontems. You can always find me at Chris Vernon Show. One word, Chris Vernon's show. If you dig what you're here and go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you with Shepard. Serrano tomorrow. Thanks, Timmy. Any time, Bruno. Some people still don't get podcast.

What's out there and how to listen. You can help change that with a click. Right now, think of someone you care about. What podcast would they really love? Got it? Now do it. Hit the share button on the bottom left of your screen. If they don't know how to listen, offer to show them how.

Tell us what you shared with the hashtag tripod, T-R-Y-Pod. Thanks for spreading the word.