The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 83: Durant's Timeline, the Playoff Picture, and Dirk's Milestone With Sam Amick

Episode Date: March 9, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon is joined by USA Today's Sam Amick to discuss Kevin Durant's injury (01:00), the possible playoff matchups (08:30), MVP chants for Isaiah Thomas at Golden State (16:00), the universal love for Dirk Nowitzki (23:30), and the complicated MVP race (34:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Use your skills and talents to make a lasting change in the world with the Peace Corps. With more than 60 countries around the world, you can choose where to live, work, and make a real impact. Do the unexpected. Apply now or learn more at PeaceCore.gov. Welcome to The Ringer NBA Show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me today is Sam Amick from USA Today. And USA Today.com is also the host of NBA A to Z podcast. Sam, what's up, man? Mr. Vernon, good morning. How the heck are you, sir? So you witnessed something pretty interesting last night.

You were at that Warrior Celtics game, but before the game, the big news was Kevin Durant speaking to the assembled media. Tell me what I need to know about Durant talking last night. The tough to reconcile juxtaposition is that the sense you get around the Warriors, even before was a pretty high level of optimism that they will see. him on the floor again before the end of the regular season that he'll have a little bit of a lead time, you know, going into the playoffs. That was the strong sense that I got from being around the team. And then, you know, in walks Kevin. And he's literally looking like, you know, Kevin's grandfather and he's got a walker and he's moving very slowly. And we talked afterwards amongst the

media folks about how, you know, it's been a legitimate week. since it happened. And you're obviously talking about a grade 2 MCL sprain and that left me and then a tibial bone bruised. But, you know, I didn't know how to reconcile those two things because he didn't look like he had progressed at all. He's talking about, you know, making strides like extending his leg. That was the big, you know, win for the day.

And, you know, you see guys go through this in rehab where it's just a tough. You know, he had a pretty good spirit. he wouldn't put a timeline on his situation. He certainly ducked that question, but he talked about how it was nice to be around the team again because he was not on the rest of that road trip. But I don't know. I mean, you know, you combine that with what happened after the press conference

with the Warriors obviously dropping that game. It's, you know, a lot of problems for them right now. Did you walk out of there going, this guy is not going to be back before the playoffs? I was torn because I, you know how it is? like you end up trusting, you know, the guys who are close to with the coaches and whatnot. And it's like, I, you know, I didn't know what to think. I mean, here's the other, you know, intel that I would be leaning on.

And I keep dropping this guy's name because he does a great job. Jeff Stops is a certified trainer. He's a great follow on Twitter. I think it's RotoWire ATC. And I bring him up because, to my knowledge, the only comprehensive injury database where he, he keeps track of every single specific injury and can tell you, you know, stick to the facts type approach, like when guys get a grade 2 MCL spring, they miss X amount of time.

Well, the average is 22 games. And I believe the Warriors had 22 or 23 games left when Kevin went down. So, you know, I think it's going to be a situation where it's down to the wire. But again, the pressure gets applied to the situation because as we've seen, you now have five games. It's a decent sample size since he went down in Washington, and they're just not looking very good without them. From your column, you said not only are they two and three since February 28th

and they're lost to the Wizards where Durant went down, but they have the league six worst offense in that span, 103.7 points per 100 possessions, compared to a league high 114 per 100 possessions before. No one has struggled more since Durant went down than Clay Thompson, who's shooting 35% overall and 25% from 3-point range while averaging, what was the number like 10 points a game or something like that? No, he's up there.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I cropped that. Oh, 19. Oh, 19? Yeah, it's 19. 19. You're getting Clay struggling. Steph and Clay, that's the offense right now,

and they're not getting much elsewhere. Ramon is around 12 a game. Andre Aguadala is around 10. Nobody else is in double digits. You know, to me, a couple of quick takeaways, as great as it is to land somebody like Kevin Durant, we knew going into this season, that they are, you know, they're still a deep team.

When you add David West and does Appetulia and things like that, but they are missing guys like most faiths in Leandro Barbosa right now, these kind of, you know, occasional, scoring machines that can help them on offense. They don't have those kinds of weapons. They're struggling on offense, and the jumpers aren't falling. This is like the Charles Barkley, you know, best case scenario where he could sit there and laugh because, you know, the long-range game is just not working.

And I don't know if for Clay, if it's a case of the looks just not being as open or if he's just not hitting his shots at a bad time, you know, Steph has played okay. but nothing like, you know, the narrative when Kevin went down was, you know, does this open the door for Steph to go back into video game mode? I think that the whole Clay thing would also be surprising to people because now it's like now he's got a real chance to step up. Like I am surprised that the opposite has been true. If I was placing bets, I would have thought Clay's opportunities,

points per game, et cetera, are going to go, they're going to go up with Durant. out because that's just what has to happen. There's going to be a greater load put on those guys and those guys will respond. It is odd that they have because it's not like they are having to get used to something radically new. They logged a lot of minutes with those, you know, three guys with Draymond, Steph, and Clay being the guys out on the court together. And so I know they play 60, whatever games it is with Kevin Durant.

It's not like they've got to get used to playing with each other. They're just going back to what they had when they set a league record for wins, for goodness sakes. Right. I mean, I agree. I think the nuanced kind of distinction, and maybe I'm grasped of straws here, but you look at some of the stuff that's changed, you know, if you hit the rewind button and you go back to the time when Andrew Bogut was a big part of what they were doing. Bogot was always overlooked when it comes to being one of the best screensetters in the NBA

and a guy who just, he just busted these guys free all the time. He's fantastic in their offense. In addition to being another guy who could be a playmaker, you know, extremely good passer. You don't have that anymore. Clay, what was crazy about Clay with Durant is that going into the year, I'm sure you remember he had that famous quote where he said, you know, I don't have to sacrifice bleep. And he was making the point that he was going to play his game.

Well, his numbers, the point where Kevin got hurt, had been almost like down to the 10th decimal identical to what they were last year. Like 22 points, same percentages overall, same percentage from tree. So it worked well, and he hasn't found that next year and been able to do what they need them to do right now. you know, the win over the hawk, you saw the warriors go down big early, scoring was a problem, and then Andre Aguadala kind of out of nowhere, you know, got back in that cryo machine and thought he was 28 again, and he gives him 24, which you're just not going to get every night.

That was a season high in scoring. But it's going to take that kind of contribution on every different night from somebody because, you know, they're just missing a big-time name out there. All right. So what did it feel like after that? game there. Did it feel like something is really wrong or did it feel like I just played a bad game and you know if we just keep on plugging away those shots that aren't going in are going to end up going in like is there is there any even minute panic about the way they look without Durant?

Vacuum no. I think there's like a it's not like that you know it was chins on the floor you know dire straits but it was I think a real realization. that if you just consider all the factors here, consider the fact that they're only one and a half up on San Antonio, that they've got Minnesota coming Friday night, and then you've got to play the Spurs in a back-to-back in San Antonio on Saturday night. You've got to play the Spurs again on March 29th. You've got to play the Rockets twice.

You've got to go to Oklahoma City. I think there's a realization that it's going to be darn near impossible for them to hold on to the number one seed. And I think the gravity of that is not lost on them because with the rant and everything we've talked about with him, you know, what you need, what you really want, if you're the Warriors, is a soft landing spot, which means first round against Denver or Portland or Minnesota

or whoever it might be, not a first round series against Russell Westbrook who's going to have blood coming out of his ears and one that just shock the world and the intensity just being on a whole different level with that kind of a playoff series, if you dropped to number two, then it would be if you had that A1 seed.

And the other thing is, I mean, if you break down the bracket and the benefit of staying on that side of the playoff bracket, you know, you could avoid Houston and San Antonio and Oklahoma City in the first two rounds and just save those battles for the conference. Those are pretty big stakes for a team like the Warriors that has got, you know,

a lot to figure out on their own right now. What a blessing that would be. Now, the Thunder would probably get smashed, but that would be incredible for it just to land like that, for the Warriors to have to play Russell Westbrook in the first round. I mean, there wouldn't be any media coverage for that, would there? I mean, my God, Chris, like, and I keep saying this, it's like, it's not only, I mean, if both sides are super healthy,

and let's just say that Oklahoma City had been the eight-seed, and so it just fell that way. So the Warriors were dominant, and the OKC just happened to be the eighth. Like even that would be kind of fun, but you'd be ready for OKC to just get run over. This with, you know, a on the decline Warriors team, a wounded Warriors team, and Russ and the Thunder playing at their peak. I mean, that would be something else. And I'm not, I mean, I'm probably picking the Warriors to win the series.

But, you know, I think it would be a series. And it would be the kind of thing that he had been playing all year for. I mean, and to add a little bit of an extra layer to it, at that point that Russ didn't win the MVP award, so put a little more fuel on that fire, you know, and he's going to have to go shock the world. Yeah, but God forbid, I mean, if it does land that way, which basketball, we'd all love to see that,

it would be, that would mean it would be the Spurs versus the Nuggets, which, I mean, they put that shit on sci-fi. They would think, I don't even think that they would be on, You wouldn't even be able to buy it. It wouldn't even make the NBA TV slate. You don't think I'm going to Denver for that one? That would be. Can you think of anything?

San Antonio Nuggets? Oh, gosh. That wouldn't be. I mean, I hate to say it as great as the spurs are. That's where we're getting it all wrong. And we keep getting it wrong is, you know, Spurs, whoever is not going to be nearly as compelling. But, you know, I mean, who. not to switch gears, but are you rooting for anybody in particular in that eight spot from an aesthetic standpoint?

I mean, I know it's the best of the worst type of a scenario, but who do you want to see there? All right. So the Pelicans, since the boogie thing, have been a disaster. When that all happened, I was like, you know what? At least that would be fun because at least you're getting to see, you know, Davis and, Davis and cousins were both in the top five in the league and scoring. And they're both all-star level players. and so that would be kind of fun. If I had my pick right now of those, I would probably say Minnesota.

Now, it'd be hard because they're two and a half game back, two and a half back right now. But at least that would be a kind of a sign for the future thing, right? Like I don't think those other teams, Denver, Denver's a sign for the future thing, and I don't want to besmirch them, but they don't have as fun of players, I don't think. Yokich is fun, but that's where it ends. And in Portland, you don't feel like it would be the start of something. And with Dallas, it certainly wouldn't be the start of something. You know, at least Dirk versus the Spurs would be somewhat intriguing.

And Carlisle's probably good enough to get you a win, maybe two in that series. But Minnesota, I think, would be the most fun of the teams, don't you? No, I'm with you. I do for sure, for sure. I think the point you're making is there's a, even if, it was potentially a sweep, there's a substantive value in that team, getting there,

getting some experience, you know, that for one, and I forget what year it is. I mean, they haven't been in the playoffs since 2005, I believe, you know, conference finals back then with KG.

And I went out to Minnesota during training camp and got a real taste for how great their appetite is just to taste the postseason again. I mean, that would be, you know, Tom Thibito didn't mind talking about playoff,

expectations back in October. You know, they got off to an office starts. I mean, that adds a little more intrigue even to this Warriors road trip. We're all kind of assuming, you know, you look at that Saturday game against San Antonio Antonio and you just, that's the big showdown. But, I mean, shoot, man, tomorrow night in Minnesota, he will, you know, like everybody else, they see a warrior's team that's reeling a little bit and a chance to get a little bit closer in those standings.

I mean, that could be a good game, too. Wouldn't you agree? Like that that's the one, if you told me Spurs, you know, it's like a 2.30 on a Saturday, and it's going to be Spurs. If I have my choice, Spurs Timberwolves is the one I'd want to watch the most. Yeah, because you want to see, I mean, specifically I want to see how does Carl Anthony Towns handle his first playoff experience. He's a young guy that just, he kind of, you know, he makes you believe that he's not going to get struck by that moment. It's a little bit like, you know, one of my favorite, I guess, lower profile playoff series that I've ever covered was the Thunder Lakers back in the day when Russ and Kevin got there for the first time and they were in Staples against Kobe. And that was the first time that I saw Russ is not afraid to anybody.

And, you know, I forget if it was five games series. I mean, they made quick work of them, but you got a little bit of taste of what that young core looked like and what they might be capable of. Yeah. Well, let me get back to what it took place last night. And everything that happens with the Warriors, the story is about the Warriors. But did last night change your opinion at all or tell you anything about the Celtics? I like them, man. I mean, I've liked them for a long time. They've got their warts. They slip up. They lack focus every so often. I mean, that game in Phoenix was a bad one, the way they dropped it.

But between the defense that they play, I mean, I freaking love watching Avery Bradley defend. Mark's doing his thing. Isaiah, you know, I like their formula. And it was an extremely impressive win recently over Cleveland, you know, where they sent that message that, you know, that was a Cavs game with LeBron. And they took those guys down, but then they've lost a few since then. So the consistency is not always there. But they've got a really good situation. You know, they get Al Horford back, and he's still, you know, he's a real flashpoint in terms of just an NBA debate right now because when he's on the floor, they're much, much better.

You know, he gives you defensively, you know, and he's a very good passer and he gives you some offense. But folks are still looking at him sideways a little bit because of that max deal, and it's just not conventional max deal production coming from a guy like that. So, you know, that kind of is what it is. But they've got a good thing going. And we saw in that fourth quarter against the Warriors, you know, and this is, I think, something that certainly can hold up in a playoff series, just what it means to just squeeze that grip defensively. And the Warriors score a season low 12 points in the fourth quarter.

I think they had eight of their 17 turnovers in the fourth. For the place, he only ends up playing five minutes. they just they can defend and then Isaiah you know if he can do this thing in the fourth quarter on a historic level like he has for the entire season and they're tough to beat so i mean i thought that was definitely one of the more impressive wins of the year it appears like it'll all stick in the eastern conference with the way the standings are right now if it does and toronto gets lowry back i love the idea of cleveland toronto and then celtics wizards like i think the east semis could be amazing Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that. I mean, Celtics Wizards will be great because I think those two teams are just neck and neck. You know, they're both really good.

The Wizards, I think, still have the best record in the East since December 1st or at least close to it. And John Wall, I mean, we talked about motivation at different times and like where a guy's head might be at. Well, I mean, if you're John Wall, I mean, and you need a little extra fuel, you're being overlooked. I mean, I think he, like Isaiah, I feel like Isaiah is unofficial. considered the fifth MVP candidate out there. And he's not going to win it, but he gets talked about. And by the way, I should have buried the lead here. I should have mentioned as far as, like, the color and the mood of the game last night

at Oracle Arena, it was pretty surreal to hear MVP chance for Isaiah Thomas in that building, which is something that actually happened. I saw you tweet that and I saw some other guys say that. And I was like, I didn't know if there was a joke or if it was a couple of people doing it. Like, was it loud? Like it was, like, was there that? I mean, I don't want to overstated. It was like on a scale of one to ten, it was like a six.

But it was, and it was relatively brief, but it was, you know, to Steph's credit, because he was asked about it afterwards, you know, he's right. Like the Celtics had run the Warriors out of the gym late. And so the, it was kind of the perfect confluence of circumstances where you had, you know, Warriors fans literally heading for the exits. And so you're looking at all their. backs as they leave the building. And the Celtics, I mean, listen, man, these are

the Celtics. They travel well. So their fans, you know, had been out there in strong support, and they started chanting Isaiah. So, I mean, this was not a case of, you know, loyal, warriors' faithful turning on their guys by any means. I mean, it was traveling Celtics fans,

but it's just something that I hadn't remembered hearing. I would yield to Ethan Strauss of ESPN.com who's been covering the Warriors for, you know, a daily basis for a long than I have. And he said it was the first time since a Kobe MVP chant that

he had heard an opponent get it. So, you know, that was kind of crazy. But to go back to the other thing, I mean, John Wall, I think, has a lot of, you know, has good reason to resent all the hype and the love that Isaiah has gotten, because

John's had, you know, as good. I think arguably, if you want to talk about defense, you could argue a better year than Isaiah. It's at least a debate. So I think Wizards Celtics would be tremendous. Yeah, and it feels like they're going to land two and three more than likely, and it will just matter on who ends up getting home court advantage in that, which could matter. Because hell, that thing could go to a seventh game for sure, right?

And it's been forever since the Wizards have gotten to experience like serious, high leverage playoff basketball, where they could be, you know, you're talking about then that you'd be one game away from the Eastern Conference Finals, for goodness sakes. In the Western Conference, I know it's hard because we're the morning after you just saw them lose, and this five-game sample size has been rather bad for the Warriors, but did you walk out of there or do you wake up this morning thinking they're not going to be able to hold on to that one seed? Again, it's not like it doesn't feel like, you know, it's not to the doom and gloom state of this is not a formidable team. I mean, they'll hit their shot.

They're not going to keep scoring at this rate. They're going to win a lot of games. But the spurs aren't letting up. You know, look at last night, which this was, you know, pretty comical. You got Pop decides not to play Kuala Leonard, the Marcus Aldridge in Sacramento or against Sacramento. I forget where they were. And they go down 28.

They want to win that game. You know, that's the kind of game that I think when my, look back and maybe this whole thing comes down to the one game and maybe that's a deciding factor. But the spurs are healthy and they got Talgasal back after that finger injury that he had and Kauai is trying to push for that MVP award. And, you know, I just, I don't see how the Warriors, I mean, 18 to go, if it was 10 to go, 11 to go, then maybe they could hold on. I just think 18 to be better than the Spurs for that much of the season, considering what

they're facing is just too tough to pull off. Let me take a quick break and then I want to ask you about Dirtnevitsky and what happened earlier this week and also the aforementioned MVP race at Kauai Leonard getting in the middle of that. The Ringers Gaming Podcast Achievement-oriented and our wrestling podcast, The Masked Man Show, are breaking off of Channel 33. You can now subscribe to each of them on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud or wherever you get your podcast.

All right, Sam, you wrote earlier this week about the things. that sent social media into a frenzy and the NBA world, which is Dirk Novitsky's legacy getting cemented even more by becoming the sixth guy ever to score 30,000 points. And this was, I think this thing that stood out to me, and I tweeted this the other night, which was, like, it's very, very difficult to be that awesome for that long and virtually be universally beloved. Like, there's always some. there's always some haters of everybody.

You know what I mean? There are people that hate, the people that, you know, will crap on literally anybody. Everybody gets crapped on. Like, he's somehow become the guy that virtually never gets crapped on. Like, I think everybody, I've never come across anybody that hates Dirk Novitsky or doesn't even, or doesn't like him. Like, the hard thing, it's almost impossible to pull off, especially in this day and age, being universally beloved and just seeing the celebration of him and everybody, media, fans, opposing players, everybody being excited for him, I think said a lot about his reputation,

just in the whole NBA world, right? No, I agree, for sure. You got me thinking. This sounds like a good ringer story that should be pursued is, you know, find a guy who doesn't like third of his teeth. and explain why. And chances are it's just going to be because of that awful loop earring that he was rocking 20 years ago when he came into the NBA. That in sync haircut that he had going back then.

Or maybe somebody in Miami, like maybe somebody in Miami, right? There was like a big 06 heat fan. They're probably like, screw that guy, right? Right. I mean, this is not like, you know, quote unquote hate. but I mean obviously before he won the title there was plenty of like you know sports criticism

about Dirk as a player and you know is he too soft is he to have what it takes to be a champion things like that and I mean he certainly you're talking about cementing his legacy I mean he did that you know in the finals against Miami back in 2011 and you know and that was huge for him

and to look back on it because time flies and you sit there and you go man like you know that's right LeBron hadn't even won one yet. So you, you know, that was the, the kind of the, this alternate universe now in our eyes where, like, oh yeah, LeBron was the choker and Dirk made it happen. And, you know, and that was LeBron's worst finals of his old career. Well, and you can also do, if you go through all these NBA teams, right, through history, you can even, not only is he a made man because he won the title, the circumstances

in which he beat, who most people considered to be the best player in the world at the time, right? and if you go through all those titles and I say who was the best guy on that team, right? And then I say, all right, who was the second best guy on that team? Like, he damn near wins that debate, like almost for all time. I know. I mean, listen, I wrote a, this line was in that column. And to your point, you know, what was the lament in the following season that they didn't resign Tyson, Chandler, Tehran Butler, and J. DeBerea?

Like those, you know, those, that was the great atrocity of roster construction in Dallas, meaning that, you know, like you said, when you go from Dirk and then you go off a cliff when it comes to name talent on that championship team. I mean, it was a great run. And again, it also, I think, was accentuated by the fact that that you kept the super team from, you know, it's perceived destiny at that time. And, you know, all the hate that was headed Miami's way, Dirk and his boys were able to do what they did.

I remember the SvN had come out with, I think it was the first time they did, like their top 100 player rankings. And they had, I believe they had LeBron won even after those finals. And I remember, like, arguing with their people about, like, how can you do that? I mean, Dirk stepped up. LeBron didn't. And it was one of those debates where it was kind of like the eyeball test versus the analytics. and, you know, but Dirk was the one driving that narrative.

I mean, that was a fantastic moment for him. The other night for me, it was neat to watch because, you know, what I had tried to write was just the idea that even though these last couple of years have knocked on the way that he wanted, the way that they wanted, he has not managed to let the joy come out of his game. And he seems to be still really enjoying himself and appreciating the little things like being healthy enough to compete. I think there is a bigger than basketball component

to just his life perspective right now. And I've talked to him about this a couple of times in the last few years. The guy enjoys the hell out of being a father, recently had his third child. They have two sons and a daughter. And I think, like, career-wise, he hit this fork in the road.

I'd say, you know, back in late 2013, where he was starting to, this is me talking, but the sense I got was to contemplate, like, contemplate, like, am I going to apply pressure to this Dallas situation and be the kind of player that, you know, a little bit like Paul George in Indiana right now, where you just say, I got to contend or else I'm not happy get me out.

And it was like he thought about doing it. He said a few things along those lines, and he just didn't have it in them, and he kind of just left it to the basketball gods at that point. And it hasn't worked out. I mean, he didn't want to be contending for an eighth, seed, you know, for several years at the later stages of his career. He wanted another title. He wanted to be at the top. But I don't know. I mean, it doesn't make one way of doing it

right and the other wrong. So, you know, it's kind of a nuanced thing. But, you know, in that moment, when he scores 30,000, I find myself being happy that he had chosen this state of mind because he was able to kind of, you know, allow people to share it with him. And you see Mark Cuban losing his mind and the fans going crazy. I mean, I saw, a tweet from one of the Lakers beat writers Tanya Ganguly the L.A. Times who has said something like, you know,

my job's pretty cool every once in a while. So you have like a media member just kind of going, man, this is really cool. Well, that doesn't happen if Dirk doesn't have the kind of spirit that he has chosen to have at this stage in his career. And maybe there is, because of the

rules that the NBA has implemented, maybe we will see more guys play out their entire careers with one franchise because there is such incentive to do that you can make more money now by playing with one franchise forever um but right it feels now again 19 20 year careers are almost impossible anyway for anybody but when you i i'm with you man seeing him break the records and and big records or achieving great milestones in that jersey that matters a lot i I'm a fan at heart, right? And so I will tell you, I hate seeing Paul Pierce in a Clippers uniform.

And I still feel weird seeing Dwayne Wade in a Bulls uniform. It just doesn't feel right, you know? Like, I love the idea of guys playing out their entire careers. It's like, you know, at the end, you saw, you know, Patrick Ewing in a Sonics uniform and Akeem Elijah won in a Raptor's uniform. And it's just like, I don't know, man. I love the idea of guys staying with franchises if they're able to for the long haul. But the interesting thing about him, which is different than most everybody else, is he's still really good. You know what I mean?

It's not like they're trotting him out there just to trot him out there and there would be a better option than him. Right? Like they're just like. No, no, but I totally agree. But the part that I love was how great was like the way he attacked. that game and that night. It was like he obviously decided, let's go get this thing done.

And then he, you know, he goes out and gives you 20 in the first, like I think Rick Carlisle said it best. He said, you know, 13 minute, two second microcosm of his career. But then my favorite part is that, listen, they hold on and they get the W, but then he gives you, you know, five points

in the final 35 minutes. So, you know, he kind of, he spent everything he had, he went out and he got the job done. It had a dramatic flare to it. it that was really neat. You know, I mean, the way that he, you know, he hits the baseline jumper, the vintage step-back jumper, and then he just waste no time, but he's got that sick three from the

top of the key that just sends everybody to the next level in terms of the hysteria. So it was really cool to watch. And, you know, there's a jealousy that comes along with a franchise like that, like, getting to be your favorite guy for your whole lifetime, right? And that that guy is always playing for you. Because these moments, like I honestly, like I just went through it yesterday where I love Dag Prescott. I've been a Cowboys fan my whole life. But like Romo going on and me seeing him in a different uniform next year, you know, I've cursed and I've cheered and cursed him more than any athlete ever maybe, right?

But it just, it ain't going to feel right, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. If you're a sports fan that gets that, that gets to be able to root for those guys for their entire. career and that's all they were. That is, that's incredibly special. Let me ask you one more thing, Sam. Go ahead.

I was going to say, just to put a bow on that, I think that, you know, I think we're still going to see some of that. Somebody asked me that yesterday. You know, I could, I could see Russ staying in okay, see his whole career. And then, you know, that's, that's iffy, but maybe. Steph Curry is another one that I could certainly see being with the Warriors, his whole career. But the thing I think that people sometimes don't realize is, you know,

Some players, not all of them, but some of them, you know, they really, they get everything that you're talking about and they care about it. And a guy who comes to mind, you know, and he's as divisive as anybody in the NBA is like, the Marcus Cousins started getting really addicted to that idea of being a king his entire life. And I know people think that's crazy because Sack is so dysfunctional. But, you know, I think players have an appreciation for that idea that, you know, man, I could be in that history book, in that media guide as, you know, far and away the best player that that franchise has ever had. And, you know, that that's a heck of a feather to have your cap. Do you have an MVP vote?

I do. You've seen everything that took place over the course of the last week, which was the greatest of all Kauai Leonard highlights, vaulting him straight back into a national discussion. Are you totally up in the air? When we talk about there's 18 games remaining, right? is it up for grabs in your mind completely or do you have in in your mind's eye like a heavy favorite right now is somebody the prohibitive favorite or do you look at it and say the last 18 games are going to make up my mind probably closer to the latter um you know i've had hardened out front for a long time i probably have him out front but i have like a few specific debates or you know just things i want to analyze that that i have I've analyzed not on the surface, like pretty deep already,

but I'm going to need to dive in deeper and talk to some people and get some different perspectives before I crystallize the way I see it. Things like, you know, as amazing as he is, I have kind of this hang-up. Now, admittedly, this is a hang-up that was kind of put into my head by, you know, folks who are around some of the other superstars who are in the mix and ideas like, you know, you know, Kauai is, he's just not a playmaker, and that's a quality and an asset that most of

the other guys in the group have. He doesn't hit the glass like some of the other guys that his position do in that group, but they don't play defense like he does, and their team isn't as good, you know, with him on the floor as his is. So, you know, that's one of a handful of debates and things I want to really do research on, but it is, to me really up in the air. The Westbrook thing is one of the most puzzling challenges. I think we've had awards-wise in years because, you know, obviously, if you would have told anybody at the beginning of the season that he was going to average a triple-double, then you would feel like it's a wrap.

You know, he's got to be the MVP. But then you start, you know, trying to factor in collective success. You know, if they're the seventh seed, can you do it? What if they, you know, where do they need to get to the fourth? You know, what do they have to do? I don't know. So, you know, James and how great he's been. He checks all those boxes that I mentioned that Kauai doesn't,

but then he doesn't play defense. And they're better this year defensively. And some people will tell you that he's been a little better, but it's just not part of his game. And so a lot to consider. And then in the shadows, go ahead. And you know this, right? The hardest part is what is your definition,

which no one can seem to agree on, right? Let me ask you something that me and my buddies were talking about the other night, right? So the worst team in the NBA is Brooklyn, okay? They need, and it would be fair to argue they need everything, right? Like there's no position that couldn't be taken there. So if I just took those three guys, Hardin, Westbrook, or Kauai, okay? And I threw them on the Brooklyn Nets. And I'm not asking you to analyze, like, how they would fit with the rest of their roster.

Like, that's not a debate worth having. But I'm just saying, Right. Any of those three guys, I line them up and I say, all right, which one of those guys would make that team better? They obviously will all make them better, the most better, if that's a way to say this, right? Who would improve the Brooklyn win total the most in your mind? Here's a problem. It's the guy that I was just going to mention who's in the shadows and who shouldn't be in the shadows.

It's LeBron. I mean, that's the answer. and the cabs without LeBron, we have seen time and again. Now, he's not helping this cause right now because they've dropped a few, and maybe that makes the decision easier. They've lost a lot more games at the East

than I think folks are willing to give them, you know, a pass on. But LeBron is averaging a career high and assist. So you talk about being a playmaker, it's unbelievable what he's been doing. He's around 26 points a game, shooting it well. You know, they're not good defensively, So that's a knock, I think, at 22nd in defensive rating. But the answer to that question, whether it's, you know, you can go two ways with that.

Who helps a team like Brooklyn? And then obviously the ageal thing of if you take the guy, you know, if you take Russ off the thunder, what happens. You know, maybe he might win that argument this year. Well, the first one is, the first one's more of a best player debate probably, right? Rather than who's having the best individual season, yeah, or who is most valuable to their particular team. I will say this, if you took LeBron off the calves, just because, I don't know, like, this should not be a demerit that you play with other good players, but they wouldn't be horrific.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, they've been not horrific, but they've been pretty bad. I mean, I don't have the numbers in front of me. I'm saying if the other two, if the other two were healthy, like even with Kyrie and love, you could theoretically have a playoff team. Right. But, I mean, that's the thing that's killing Kyrie's image in Kyrie's PR is that they don't ever win when it's just Kyrie, you know, without LeBron. I mean, it's, you know, the guy is a champion.

The guy hit the biggest shot in the finals, one of the biggest shots in NBA history over Steph Curry. And it's just, you know, but the numbers are just overwhelming that they don't win without LeBron. So, you know, that's, I mean, that's, there's part of me. I mean, I'm legitimately, like, LeBron is on the shortlist for me. Well, you know, with Kauai, with Russ, with James. I think it's those four. I'm not going to be voting for Isaiah. You know, I don't think he's going to be the MVP.

So I feel like it's a four-man race. None of the Warriors are in it. You know, Kevin was there for a while. You know, Steph, if he had gone crazy, maybe you could have snuck in. But that's not happening right now. So I feel like it's those four. and it's definitely not an easy pick. And so whoever sends you the nicest free stuff, you know,

as these teams send it, they're going to get the vote. Well, I mean, I'm not helping, this is a side subplot, but like we were talking last night at the game about how, you know, the whole narrative of the spurs being in the shadows, us ignoring the spurs in the media. I really wanted to cover this game in San Antonio. Sometimes what fans don't realize is that, logistics come into play. I would love nothing more than to sit front row and watch Kauai in person against the warriors to really kind of help me with this debate.

Unfortunately, for anybody on the West Coast, and you can relate to this, Chris, because Memphis is extremely tough to get to in terms of planes and airports. I mean, it's like $1,100 round trip to get out to the chance. I mean, I go to Paris for $11,100. It's great. It's good net's money anyway. Come on. Yeah, right. Stop acting like it's coming out of your pocket to go to San Antonio. Hey, I'm a good company, man. I can't be blowing their money. I understand.

He is Sam Amick. You can follow him on Twitter at Sam underscore Amick. Sam, you're the best. Thanks for joining me, buddy. You got it, Chris. Thanks, partner. My man. Thanks for listening to another edition of the Ringer NBA show.

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