The Ringer NBA Show - Ep. 84: The Wizards of Washington With Katie Baker

Episode Date: March 10, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Katie Baker discuss the Wizards' rise in the East (5:00), Scott Brooks's "forced sabbatical" (11:00), John Wall and Bradley Beal's relationship (17:00), Wall's candidness (24:00), and the stars in the D.C. market (33:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringers Gaming podcast, Achievement-oriented, and our wrestling podcast, The Masked Man Show, are breaking off of Channel 33. You can now subscribe to each of them on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, or wherever you get podcast. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show, and today we're going to talk to Katie Baker from The Ringer. She put up an article a few days ago, The Wizard of Washington. After years of disappointment in D.C., John Wall, Bradley Biel, and a cast of clicking role players have the Wizards on track to contend for a conference title. but the real magician is the new coach who's proved capable of enchanting game plans and personalities alike. And that, of course, is Scott Brooks. And Katie Baker joins us now.

Hey, Katie. Hi, how are you? Thanks for coming on. Okay, so first things, the Wizards are obviously one of the great stories in the NBA this year. But, you know, you write a lot of feature stuff and you're going to really dig into whatever story you're going to write. Why the Wizards? Why did you want to write about them? Well, going into preseason, I was just kind of intrigued as to what it was going to be like for a scoff.

You know, I think just most broadly, I used to cover hockey a lot. And so the Washington Capitals are a team that on the regular season and then just can't get past the second. The Wizards didn't necessarily have the first part under control, but they had the second. They, you know, just kind of had never gotten over the hump. So, you know, to go into that environment, I was obviously when all the, you know, comments came out this summer with John Wall and Bradley Beal where Wall said that, you know, they have a tendency to dislike each other on the court, I think is what he said. And it got blown into, you know, a huge extravaganza and hearkened back to Brooks's situation in Oklahoma. So those were interesting to me. And then that kind of got put aside for a little bit.

And then when the resurgence after a two and eight start, we just thought maybe it would be a good time to revisit that. Okay, so you said you covered hockey, and so you were well aware of the capitals and what they have been through over the years. It happened to have the same owner, and you feature Leonis in this article. So Ted Leonis, what was your perception slash awareness? Did you have any relationship with him prior to because of the capitals? Yeah, so I had met Ted once before when the Capitol's hosted the Winter Classic when they have a big outdoor game that they had at the National's ballpark. So I had met him briefly, and he's just an interesting character. I think one of the first things he said to me was that he's technically responsible for the rise of Bill Simmons because he used to be an executive at America Online,

and one of Bill's first columns was on, like, Digital Cities, Boston, which was owned by AOL. So, you know, immediately when I met Ted, I knew that he was, you know, the guy behind the guy behind the guy, I guess. But anyway, he, you know, he's an interesting guy because he's really, he's always looking for the edge. He is very kind of contemplative about how he thinks about people. He is always watching people, you know, as if he's like, a not Wizard of Oz character, but he, you know, he'll see one small interaction with someone and then make an assessment about that person's entire leadership style. You know, and he sits like at both of the games I went to.

I went to the Utah Jazz game and the Golden State Warriors game. I mean, he sits like two seats away from Coach Brooks, which I don't know if that, I don't know if there's plenty of owners that are kind of right there, but he just, I mean, he's practically sitting in his lap. So he's an interesting guy, but he's been through a lot with the capitals. They've gone through a lot of coaching changes. They've kind of settled right now in this guy Barry Trots, who's, you know, everyone just really respects and is awesome.

And I think Ted learned a little bit about how to approach this coaching hire based on how things have gone with Trots and how things have gone with the capitals in the previous years. Interesting that you mentioned the whole Simmons angle to this. He's mentioned this on podcast before, but he may very well be the only person in America that still has an AOL email address. So his loyalty has remained, Bill says, to Leonis. That's true. I think, yeah, the two men, obviously, over the years, they just, they don't even realize how much they're still, you know, attached to the hip.

Okay, so is he a charming guy? What's Leontes like? Yeah, he's, he has a beautiful office with, like. all these kind of, you know, framed posters of movies that he's helped produce. And there's a, like, I don't know if it's a leather jacket or, like, a varsity jacket, but there's this, like, framed jacket that says AOL on it. I don't remember some certain number of, like, AOL downloads or, you know, AOL-free CDs set out in the mail in the mid-90s.

But, yeah, he, you know, like in talking about Coach Brooks, it was interesting the things that he pointed to. Like it wasn't, you know, it wasn't these like specific matchups or rotations or anything like that. It was, you know, he talked about how there's been two times in Washington, D.C., where he's been, you know, going to an event at night or going out to dinner, and he's run into Coach Brooks, who's, you know, strolling down the street by himself at night because it's nice out and he wants to do some sightseeing and he see. And that to Ted is really important because it's,

shows to him this curiosity of spirit, taken opportunities. And, you know, he honestly, he told me a whole story about being stuck in traffic and looking out his window and seeing a sunset. So, I mean, that's kind of what he starts to talk about when it comes to Brooks. But he also talks about the fact that his words that he used over and over were that he wears well on the players. So, you know, he kind of lets them do their thing. he pushes them, but he doesn't have the style where he's just going to be browbeating them

or, you know, kind of wear out his welcome quickly the way, you know, I think some coaches kind of have an expiration date in terms of like their style. And, you know, he talked about Randy Whitman a little bit and said he definitely didn't want to throw him under the bus. I think his words were that he said, Whitman took a team that was, quote, scard and broken and instilled a work ethic in the team. So I think he appreciates that, but he also found that for the young players that they have, it wasn't necessarily productive to have someone that was going to, you know,

pull them from a game if they missed a shot or kind of not punish them, but just not have the patience to let them, you know, make mistakes without the fear of, you know, major ramifications. So was he looking for the opposite of Whitman? You know, in a sense, like, who was, he was looking for, I mean, they all keep saying, however I spoke with between him and I spoke briefly with Ernie Grunfeld, you know, that they would always use the phrase, Brooks, we wanted someone that could, you know, develop young players, and he's shown that he can develop young players. And sometimes I wonder if that's a euphemism for,

you know, managing the personalities of Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant in Oklahoma City. Like, is that what you mean by developing young players? But, you know, I think more broadly, It's just kind of having that sense of patience. And, you know, I think Bradley Beale wrote a blog post recently where he said that Brooks has, like, made a bet with him that he can't shoot kind of like an outrageous amount of three. It's like what Kobe Bryant shot in his last game attempted. But I think that just shows his kind of philosophy in terms of, you know, lighting a fire under them, maybe even doing it in kind of way. but it does give Beal that extra, you know, thing in the back of his head of keep shooting, keep shooting, you know, particularly when he started the season a little bit cold and had to kind of work through that.

Let's get to Brooks. A couple different times it's mentioned in the article that he took a forced sabbatical, as it was called, right? And I'd imagine that's his term, right, a forced sabbatical that he had to go after his ouster at Oklahoma City. Does he feel like he was done wrong at Oklahoma City? Did you get that impression? I didn't get into that much. Like, he definitely, there are a few times where I said, you know, in a sense, when you see the things he did in his sabbatical,

which involves going to college games, going to hang out with Popovich at Spurs practice, you know, he definitely made the most of it. But when I said, oh, you know, it sounds like, Like you had this, you know, a sabbatical in the way that, like, a college professor would have it. Like, maybe that's a good thing. He's, you know, he was very quick to say, it was a forced sabbatical. I would not have chosen it.

So, you know, he wasn't, like, directly bitter or anything like that. But, you know, he's a competitive guy, and you can, you know, I'm sure that the way things ended, you know, kind of probably, probably still, you know, mess with him a little bit. But he seemed, you know, but at the same time, he was very much like he knew that if he was going to do that, he wanted to make the most of it. He said, coaches say all the time, you know, that they want to spend more time with their family and I got to actually do it. And we were kind of joking around a little bit about it's not possible to happen, you know,

in pro sports just with the high stakes of everything. But I don't know. From my perspective, I think there should be some kind of program where coaches like have to take a sabbatical every now and then or GMs and just see the world and learn from other people and go to a football game and hug your wife.

You know, I just it's such a crazy profession. You know, but obviously no one's ever going to do that. I said that's already Grunfeld and he like snorted in my face. But, you know, I also like to think about like what different coaches would do on their years off.

One of the things that I think it's Gortat that talks about how, you know, he gives this great quote about how Brooks has to manage the personalities in that locker room. And, and of course, everybody, when they think about the wizards and they think about the personalities, they think about that quote about, you know, Wall and Beale possibly not getting along with each other. Why do you think he is good? Like this whole, and there's a line in there about guys should get a, I don't know if it's Brooks, it says it, I can't recall, or if he heard it from somewhere about

you know, coaches should take classes in psychology. Who said that one? Was it him that said that? Yeah, that was Brooks. Okay. Yeah. And the whole idea is so much of, you know, team success or coaching in the NBA is just psychology of it all and dealing with these different personalities. And that was the high praise from Gortat.

Just from being around him and then talking to him about this, why do you think he is good at that? Well, there are two things that kind of stuck out. One was that he, it's almost like he kind of leans into it a little bit. I don't think he is of the mind that, you know, these guys should never disagree or should never kind of, you know, get their backs up at each other on the court. I think he, I think he thinks that's a good thing, given who these guys are. Like, he made a point to say that obviously going into the job, you know, he'd read the articles. is he, you know, this is obviously before Wall made his kind of, you know, well-publicized comments

in the near the end of the summer, but even going into the job when he took it in April, you know, those things were kind of floating. He said, I know, he seems to be very confident in his ability to, like, judge people and to get a sense for people. So he was like, you know, when you meet someone, you kind of can tell right off of that, like this person's going to require a lot of effort. This person's, I think he called it, you know, this person's maintenance. This person, you know, I don't even have to think about.

And I think with those guys, he didn't, you know, his alarm bells weren't really triggered. He just saw two really competitive guys that sometimes disagreed. And, you know, obviously have to figure out how they're going to, you know, like, you know, who's going to take the final shot, who's going to, you know, take the final pass. But so that was one thing. He doesn't seem to be like, I have to make sure these guys are best friends. He sees it as a positive. And then the other is something that Ted said, which was that he notices that Coach Brooks

kind of allows John Wall to take over often, whether it's in the huddle or in practice. And that, you know, that has the effect of obviously, you know, giving Wall that leadership role. it's kind of crazy on that team that he's in a sense like one of the veterans at this point and it's a really young team I think Gartad is the oldest on the team and then you know and it also signals to other players that you know that walls in charge and that you know what he says is a proxy for what Brooks wants to do so you know I think he's kind of just empowering them and not not causing them to like conceal anything or you know not live into their emotions, but to just manage it and to try to find the positive of, you know,

why are we arguing on the courts because we both want to win? I love the – There was one of the times that he said that some of the – it was something to the effect of. Sometimes the most – the guys that you would think are the most impossible to coach are actually the easiest because they are so competitive. And that's a learned thing because I think that young coaches, when they've got the guys that are, quote, you know, hard personalities, that that's what they see. And so it just becomes screw this guy, screw this guy.

And then they all, you know, you might get banished to the bench or you might just be like, you might end up having to trade him or whatever. But it feels like he's kind of, I don't know, he's come to this realization over time that, okay, there are going to be challenges to coaching all kinds of different guys. But let's see the good in them. And like I said, sometimes the impossible. guys are the ones that can become the easiest just because they're the ones that'll lay it on the line every single night, right?

So that's what you get with them. Yeah, yeah, totally. And, you know, view a player like that as like some sort of threat to you as a young coach because they're going to, you know, you're going to butt heads with them. It's like he just, I just think he truly sees it as, okay, you know, this guy wants to win as much as I do. how do we get on the same page and how do I, you know, when you're a coach like him and you have the track record you have not only as a coach, but also, you know, these players know that he was point guard in the NBA who Bradley Bales, he knew that Coach Brooks was like 4 foot 11 when he was a high school freshman. And he said, no, but I could have a lot of respect for him.

Just in the sense of, you know, he's not like blowing in there, blustering, telling them what to do. he's done it. He's done it on a lot of different teams. You know, he's been a coach in a lot of different places. He started out as a coach in the, in like an ABA team where he was, like, driving the van. And I think those things kind of matter to a player where they realize that he's really, like, on the same team as them. And, you know, he's not out to, like, almost like, preemptively, you know, kind of view them with suspicion. I thought it was fascinating. Let me move the wall and beale, because you bring up the quotes from CSN that Wall made about them, you know, disliking each other on the court or whatever. And we've all done the postmortem on Westbrook and Durant.

And now it feels like, well, maybe these guys weren't such great friends after all, right? Like, and this whole idea that you don't have to be friends. And it feels like just from reading the article, there's no bones about it. Like, these are not guys that hang out off the court. And they have, I think at one point, there's a quote saying they have very different priorities. But the whole idea is these guys didn't all of a sudden become really good friends. And that's why they can be simultaneously awesome for a basketball team. So if you can't just give me some insight into that whole relationship, how that's working.

And it does kind of feel a little Westbrook Durantish where they clearly were not super close friends, right? now that we look back. It's a lot easier to say that. Yet, they were both able to be fantastic basketball players on a team at the same time. So tell me what you think about Wall and Beal after being around them so long. I think that, I mean, I think it kind of goes back to what I said in the sense of they know they don't have to be friends. You know, it's not like anyone's forcing them to do like a, you know, a trust fall off the rope scores together. And as Gortat said, you know, they, obviously there are some players in the team who are best friends and hang out all the time.

And he talks about himself in Sataranki, you know, hanging in the club. But, and he said, we're like brothers. These guys, they're not best friends like we are, but they play like brothers on the court and that's what matters. And I think that's kind of just the overall mentality, which is that, you know, what matters is winning. what you want to do in, you know, the office. You're in their in your free time. And I think they both acknowledge that they just need to, you know, it's hard. One thing that was interesting that Beal said was, you know,

obviously you talk about taking the final shot and who's going to do that. But he actually brought up that a lot of times they're arguing about who's going to play defense on someone. I thought that was like, that's kind of like a good sign if that's the disagreement. Like, you know, it shows that they're, you know, everyone's always talking about how they have to buy into their defense. and how that's the important thing. And I think without even really meaning to, that's a big thing on their mind.

It's not all that they're just both really competitive guys. They both want to be guarding the best player. They both want to be, you know, they're on the court. And so, you know, but everyone was like, it was so overblown. You know, Beale said he understood what he meant. I mean, I'm sure you don't really see, but no one, I don't know,

no one just really seemed worried about it. Like they seemed more, I think, think the bigger question, the second unit. Like, I feel like that's more on their minds. Like, no one's worried about it on it together or whatever it is they said on the SPN. I took the, I probably took this the wrong way, but, you know, there's this whole idea of they just got different priorities. And then you do kind of explain through the quotes of other people about the, it seems

like the priority of wall is just basketball. Like he has nothing else going on in his life that he cares deeply about. Like he is always watching basketball. he talks about watching women's basketball, he'll watch high school basketball, whatever. And so that is posed and it makes me feel like, okay, this guy's basketball all the time guy. But what are Beals' priorities then? I don't want to frame it like, this guy really cares about basketball and Beals, those aren't his priorities. But what do you make of that when the quote is that they just have very different priorities?

What does that mean? Well, I think it was Gortat that said that. And I think, you know, like without putting words into his mouth, he probably just means like a personal, like kind of how their personality is like really manifest. And, you know, Wall is definitely, you know, just seeing them in like the shoot around. Wall is kind of louder, kind of chattering, making fun of people, like, you know, taking funny shots. you just kind of see him like bopping around um beale was like a lot more kind of robotic in the corner you know taking threes and you know not like he was not like he had a bad personality or anything it was just you know it was it was kind of funny because i think it was like the first

shoot around i'd been to and it kind of captured so much you know archetypes that you've heard but um you know beale's also um you know he he starts every um post game from you know but thank you to God, and he's, I think, known to be, like, a lot more religious in that way. And, like, I don't want to, like, again, like, try to draw too many, you know, insights into that. But I think that's probably what he was referring to with that, just that they're different personalities. You know, they may be the top few guys on the team, and they may both be, you know, guards, but that doesn't mean that they're going to be the same guy. and I think when he was also talking about there,

he says he could never be an NBA coach because take those two guys and then add 10 more, and then you're just starting to deal with all the personalities you have to manage and all the ways people see the world differently. Does it feel like it's Wall's team when you're around them? I think it does. Yeah, it does to me.

I mean, it feels a little bit like, you know, one-in-one-a with. him and Beal. Like, not to take anything away from Beal, obviously, but I do just get the sense that, you know, even just like watching it in a game, he's kind of, you know, the floor general and hearing Brooks talk about how, you know, he has kind of the eye of a coach. You do get that sense. And, you know, it's interesting because he's very, like, I mean, maybe I'm just too used to

covering hockey players, but I'm surprised how candid he is about the amount of time he, you know, spends reading articles about himself or reading tweets about himself or, you know, he's not afraid to kind of call out the Washington Lizards crowd if he perceives him to be acting like bandwagon fans. But he does so in a way that's kind of, it's not, like, gratuitous, it's just honest to me. And I'm sure if you're a Wizards fan, you've probably had your ups and downs with, you know, what you think about the things he says, but it just stuck out to me.

Like I appreciated that he never really seemed offended by a question. He never, you know, kind of shut down. He just said, you know, it's kind of crazy when you, like, he's 26 years old, and sometimes I think he seems younger, and sometimes I think he seems older, and he's been in the league forever. And, you know, but like I said, he's kind of the part of the leadership on the team at this point despite being 26. I loved the quote where he was talking about people sending him articles on Twitter or what people write.

And then he said, he copped to it. He said, I read it. And he said, everybody reads it. Like, don't let any of these guys tell you that they're not reading the stuff because they are. Yes. You know what I mean? And usually the guys that go out of your way to tell you that they're not are actually the most obsessed. Right.

Yeah, and you get the sense that he's also just very, like, aware of his in the league and what he wants it to be versus what it is. One thing I couldn't really figure out where he talked a lot about when Paul Pierce was on the team, just how important Paul Pierce was to him as kind of one of the first guys that really showed him what it means to be a pro in terms of just, you know, doing the same thing every day and not talking, but acting. But one thing that he said about Pierce, and he said, you know, he was always really great to me on the court,

and I said, what did he say? And it was all, you know, you're the best player out here. Like, no one's better than you. You know, if he got upset, he would say, you know, don't let it get to you. Just remember, like, you're the best player. And I just, that just cracked me up. And he said, he's probably saying the same thing to Chris Paul right now,

but Chris Paul might not even need to hear it. Yeah, where did you see Gortad in all of this? He's obviously a great quote. He seems like a really jovial, cool guy. But there was that part at the beginning of the season when they were struggling. And he clearly got away with it with the rest of the team not hating him. But you remember when he came out and he basically said their bench sucks, right? He called out their bench.

He said their bench. And I thought, boy, this is, that's a mistake to say that in public because every, you know, that's fine. You got the five guys. but the rest of the guys in that locker room are going to be like, wait, man, why are you telling everybody I suck, right? Yeah, and it's like the guys that, like, may not necessarily respond to that kind of, like, quote, motivation in the same way as, like, a part of it. Yeah, but he's got the, he clearly has a standing, it feels like, within that locker room that he was totally able to survive that and views as some type of leader there, right? Yeah, I mean, he's obviously, like, extremely blunt in the way he talks about things. and so, you know, maybe some part of that was that they just understand his personality and the way.

You know, I do think, like, he kind of struggled a little bit. He was kind of struggling a little bit lately and starting to see some of his minutes go down. I think he had a double-double, like in the last game, and, you know, people are like he's back. But, you know, like I said, it's kind of crazy. He's, like, literally the oldest player in the locker room, I think, and he's, like, younger than I am. and I don't consider myself to be that old. And he has an important role. He too kind of talked about Coach Brooks in the sense of he appreciates that the coach

will kind of respect him and treat him with respect as a player. And he understands that sometimes that'll mean that he can't, you know, have as many possessions as he might have wanted in the past that he has to, as he put it, forget about certain parts of his game. So, you know, I think he's just kind of one of those guys that, you know, when it comes to the playoffs, you need everyone to be kind of balsibly, you know, have things to say about his teammates. But I didn't get the sense that that had, like, any last things he was saying at the time.

So maybe it was one more of the mind that people can tolerate hearing it. After trying to do this deep dive and you talk to the players, you talk to the coach, you talk to the owner, everything else. Obviously, you spread out. Wall's having the great season. Beals having a great season. Brooks is getting a lot of credit. But their record has just been out of this world.

They were like 29 and 10 in their last 39 games at one point. And they're now third place in the east. They're one game behind Boston. They're a game and a half up on Toronto. If I just has to ask you, Katie, like, why have they been so awesome? What would you attempt to pinpoint? Like what happened here? Why did they all, is it as simple as, well, you know, they just got the right coach for the right mix of guys?

Because, you know, after being around there and seeing the culture, going to these shootarounds, etc. Like if somebody just asked you, like, man, why have the, how did the wizards get so good? Well, I mean, I think there's a couple things. One, I mean, one is that we've had this conversation and we haven't even mentioned Mark Hughes Morris, who are, which kind of just goes to show that they have enough options and different people can take over a different time. Right now is second in the league and three-point percentage. So that obviously is exceeding expectations. But then also I just think, like, I was thinking about this when they were playing Golden State,

which is one of those games where when Golden State comes in, you just assume that, they're either going to win or, you know, they're going to have the ball in the fourth quarter, like, with a chance to win. And so even when Golden State was down, like, I forget how many it was, it was, like, 17 or 19 points, you're just kind of, like, waiting for the inevitable comeback. And it came, and I think they were tied going to the fourth quarter. And at that point, you're just thinking, well, oh, man, like, tied in the fourth quarter. And the way that they just continued to trade baskets and hit shots and have good defensive plays, and, you know, it felt like a playoff not only how it felt, but also, like, it felt like playoff experience almost,

like the kind of game that you, you know, you can think back to. No, I know we can hit these shots because we've done it. So I think that kind of reminded me of the fact that if you start a season two and eight, like, that's hard to come back from. And it's probably really hard not to just have, like, the worst attitude in the locker room about. And it just really sounded like that's not the attitude they had. And, you know, I think they just, I don't know what it was.

I don't know if it was just that, you know, everyone from the coach to ownership was relatively calm, that sometimes you just have to push through this. But I think, like, the ability to get over that and it's not, like, freak out or panic or, you know, have, like, a big reprisal of the wall deal, like, you know, feud or anything like that, says a lot about, you know, in a playoff series, like, sometimes it feels like you're two and eight if you're down to games for nothing or something. And I think they come back from that. And so, you know, they've shown that they can do that at least in the regular season.

It weirdly ended up being my league pass team probably the most this year just because they don't get a lot of national television games, which is odd, considering. considering having a player is awesome as a wall. And this article, honestly, Katie, and your intention as a writer is not to make people like people, but it just made me like them more, right? Is there a part of you that leaves there going, you know what, they're worthy of rooting for, or do you think you will find yourself rooting for them after being around them? No, I mean, this probably makes me a bad journalist,

but a lot of times when I cover teams, I find myself just having, just liking them. But I think the Wizards in particular, everyone was just, I mean, part of it was just, the whole organization just was very, like, pleasant to work with. They were very, like I said, they were very open. I mean, I talked to John Walfour, like, you know, he wasn't just giving, like, the same, you know, sometimes you have a conversation like that, go back and transcribe it and you're like, oh, my God, I thought that was a great conversation, and he said the same thing over and over.

But that wasn't the case. Like, he really had a lot of interesting things to say. But, yeah, I mean, I think it was also just fun. Like, being at the Golden State game, there are obviously a lot of Golden State people in the crowd, a lot of kids and Curry jerseys. And, you know, you just think about how John Wall must see that. He's like, you know, what about me, like 10-year-old kid that lives in D.C., like, Why aren't you wearing my jersey?

But I think he also knows that those kids will be wearing his jersey, you know, if they can make a deep run. And, yeah, it was just really fun to be at that game because the Golden State crowd kind of, you know, when they were trading baskets in the fourth quarter, with every basket there were cheers. The Wizards just got, it really felt like you were seeing kind of one of those games that if they were to make a deep playoff run, they would remember, you know, how that game went. And, yeah, so, I mean, my chosen team, unfortunately, is the New York Knicks,

so I'm always looking for another Eastern Conference team to adopt since the 90s. So, yeah, I'm pretty all in on The Wizards. I was texting Joe House during the game, and he, of course, is very pessimistic because he's a Washington fan for him. All right, last thing. the Capitals, the aforementioned, because you said you cover hockey for so long, still, once again, have the most points in the NHL. They got 95 points.

They're 44, 15, and 7. Could you help yourself, or did you have to get some Capitals questions in? Like, I know you're writing about the Wizards, but there you are amongst them, and Leonces owns both teams. How did you handle the whole having the best team in the NHL playing in the that same arena and you're sitting in there with the owner. Did you get any capitals questions in? I mean, I didn't even have to ask any capital's questions.

He loves to talk about the capitals. So he loves to talk about Alex Ovechkin, which, how can you not? Alex Ovechkin is one of my favorites. But yeah, he actually, he did, without any prompting, really, he brought up the fact that Wall and Beal kind of remind him a little bit of Ovechkin and like a very quietly swede. And then Alexovich, you know, brash Russian, as Ted put it, you know, he stuck all the air. But those two guys kind of are similar.

You know, I don't think they've ever had a publicized dispute the way Wall and Biel have, but in the sense of them being two very different players who are both, you know, kind of the stars of the team and who, you know, co-exist really well despite not being clones of one another. That was something that he mentioned as really. I think I asked John Wallace, he has been in the Caps games. He said he has, and he said he can relate with Alex Sovetchkin and then also with, like, Bryce Harper of the Nationals and, you know, just all these guys that are like, you know,

kind of have their teams in a good place in D.C., but have yet to have anything really to show for, have a little club of, you know, who can win the championship first. I mean, it would be really fun to have a Capitol's wizard. or simultaneous run and knock on wood for Wiz fans. But I think D.C. has the potential to be like a really fun

sports town. They've just been beaten down for so long. They certainly got the stars. They've got an awesome collection of stars there, right? Like, you just get to go out. If you go to a baseball game, you get to watch Bryce Harper every night. If you go to a basketball game, you get to watch Wall and Beal. Well, let's just

not even talk about the Redskins. But then you get to see Ovechkin every night, right? Like, you got real, like, superstar players. star players in that city. You have a superstar, the Redskins have a superstar despised owner, which is a very important sport's archetype. So that's their marquee guy on the skin. Yeah, she is Katie Baker. You can follow her on Twitter at Katie Bakes.

And make sure you go check out the article of which we talked about. It has got a lot more stuff than what we all covered all today. You get all the details. The ringer.com, The Wizard of Washington. The article is awesome, Katie. and thanks so much for coming on the NBA show today. Thanks for having me. Dig it.

Thanks for listening to another edition of the NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week. All this month, we're asking you to tell a friend about a podcast they'll love. Right now, think of a friend, your mom, anyone you care about, what podcast would they really love? Got it? Now do it.

Tell them about it in real life or on social media. And if they don't know about podcasts, show them how. Tell us what you recommend with the how. hashtag tripod, T-R-Y-Pod. Thanks for spreading the word.