The Ringer NBA Show - Everything Left to Sort Out Over the Stretch Run | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos are back, and they are answering five looming questions to sort out over this stretch run before the playoffs. They talk about Doc Rivers and the Bucks' overall chase for the second seed in the East (3:45), the play-in field race in both conferences (15:30), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s MVP case (39:46), and more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Tucker Tashjian Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz and Danny Corrales Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. This is David Shoemaker. The pro wrestling world is currently on fire. And so we've got you covered five days a week on the ringer wrestling show. Every Monday and Thursday, hang out with me and Kaz on The Masked Man Show. And this is Peter Rosenberg, the host of Cheap Heat. Join me and my guys, Stack Guy Greg and Dipperstein on Tuesdays and Fridays. We talk wrestling. We have bagel breakdowns, mage interviews, and so much more. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal and Brian on Wednesday. Worldwide, where we hit the most interesting headlines and even react to some of mass mans, cheap heats, or even your hottest tics. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling Show feed. Now on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And stay mage, everyone.

Worldwide. Come back to group chat. I am Justin Verrier, joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Was. Gentlemen, everyone has a tan coming back from the break, including Alex Rodriguez. I don't know about you guys, but I'm still trying to get moisture back into my face after four days in the tundra that was Indiana. I mean, I'm just happy that Indiana was followed by Wellness Week. As you guys know, I'm a big wellness guy, went to a sound bath, went to a couple of spas, a couple of massages. Yeah, so I'm

fully refreshed. I'm thankful that we had the week to take time off to get ourselves right and I'm ready for the stretch run of the NBA season. Let's unpack that for a second. Yeah. What was the situation at the sound bath? Are you in one of those immersive chambers and they're just blasting in episodes of group chat

specifically to get you in the right headspace? No, they're just like banging on stuff that kind of goes and it's supposed to be like spiritually healing. You're supposed to do it while holding some crystals and, you know, having just down. a gallon of green juice. That's the LA lifestyle, my boy.

I don't know what y'all doing up in the bay, but down here we take this stuff very seriously. Well, we got a new look a little bit today being on FanDuel TV, and we got a new wave group chat. We're really trying to hawk some crystals out here. We're trying to move some product. Let's get this thing going. Yeah, welcome to everybody watching on FanDual TV.

We'll be coming to you live, I guess, on Mondays. The episode will be recording as per usual on Sunday, so still look out for that podcast. in your feeds typical time Sunday afternoons. I feel like I need to go do like a facial regimen or something at this point now that we're going to be on Big Boy TV. Do you guys, are you like ice rolling or anything? I don't know.

What's ice rolling? No, you don't know that. It's like you take the little roller and you roll it over your face and supposed to like matt it out or something. I don't know. I'm going to make my girl do that for me. Thank you. You just gave my girl a new chore.

there you go. Just seeing all these photos coming back from India. I was like, damn, I'm getting old. Well, let me tell you, Justin, there's not enough ice in the world to fix that for us. We are well and cooked at this point. Damn. All right. So we've got about what, two-ish months, a little under two months left in the regular season.

That's what we'll call the stretch run. We're doing this podcast talking about everything left to sort out over that period of time. And I think we have to start out with the Milwaukee Bucks, specifically Doc River. who went on a bit of a world tour of interviews and managed to pretty much put his foot in his mouth again and again and again. We should mention we're recording this as the Bucks are playing the Sixers on, I believe, ESPN,

so we don't know what's happening in that game. But I got to ask, Rob, so Doc has to be cut off from the interview, Mike, pretty much the rest of the season at this point, right? We've got to be running interference. Someone on Bucks PR has got to be diving in front of every microphone. I know he has mandated appearances, Jesus.

Like, it's just getting a little intense, a little extreme. And frankly, for someone who's in Doc's position who, look, he was stepping in midseason to save a team that needed dramatic course correction, if you're in that spot, you don't need to tell us how hard the job is because if the bucks fail, no one was going to be blaming Doc Rivers for that. This was a broken team before he showed up. I thought he had a lot of leeway. And somehow he's kind of, like, wound all that up already. Yeah, I don't think the doc stuff has been about how the team is performing so far very early on in his tenure. I think it's the optics and the perception of a guy maybe possibly having a knife and shiving a coach directly in the back by consulting with the team and then ultimately stepping into the role after they vacate the position, right? And so I think that's what Doc is.

He's out here on a face-saving campaign, and there's just no way to do it, so he looks completely ridiculous in the process, right? This idea of, oh, I wouldn't wish this on anybody. It's like, so why'd you wish it on yourself? Hello, you didn't have to take this job, brother. It's just, you know, wait, why are you doing this? Why are you firing Adrian Griffin?

Like, no, you should keep him. It's like, come on, Doc. Come on. And realistically, I don't think anybody with a brain thinks that Doc had to suggest to these guys that Adrian Griffin had to go. I think the teams play, some of the more prominent players, management got the message. It's not like Doc Rivers revealed some grand secret that Adrian Griffin wasn't working out. But Doc is obsessed with his perception in the media. And so he's come out and he's come out and looked very ridiculous.

in the process of trying to clean up the mess that is, you know, the optics of this situation. Well, was, you said he's on a face-saving campaign. Justin, my question to you would be, when is Doc Rivers not on a face-saving campaign? Because as JJ Reddick rightly pointed out, I'm just saying, like, I actually think Doc Rivers is a pretty solid coach, if with some noticeable flaws. But he has an elusive relationship with accountability, I will say. I'm not sure that Doc didn't come back for some small. percentage just to be in front of a mic every single day again. I know he was doing the media stuff.

He was doing with Bill, but that was only like once every couple days. He was on every broadcast call. He's a type of guy who just loves an audience. Alvin Gentry, same way. Like, I believe that those guys want jobs year after year after year, in part because they just like being in the ecosystem, like saying things to people and having the reception back to them. And so I'm not surprised that Doc is saying all of this stuff. If anything, I kind of, in this small, way appreciate the honesty, but like this is not what this team needs right now. But I have to wonder though, I don't know if you guys saw the game against the wolves. It didn't seem like there was something still there.

And this gets us back to the same question with the bucks where it's like they look awful part of the time. I think they're four and seven going into this game today. On the other hand, they're still third in the east and probably capable of climbing to the two C pretty quickly. Yeah, they're one of the best teams in the league against high level competition, which is mystifying to think about when you see the games where they absolutely blow it against lesser teams where they give up huge point totals to teams that really can't score in other contexts.

I have no idea what to make of them at this stage, this late in the season. That is a terrifying thought for a team that wants to be contending. But how do you talk yourself out of a team that has Janus and Dame on it, especially when you look at the other kind of would-be challengers in the East? Obviously, the Celtics are on a tier unto themselves, but of the other teams, all those teams are kind of flawed in their own ways. them have burdens of proof. And the bucks of all those groups have kind of accomplished the most, given the core that they have. Now, Dame has been a huge addition that has changed the complexion

and the nature of that team. But I'm always going to trust a team with Janus on it. And this is a notable one, a healthy Chris Middleton on it, not to mention some of the other role players who, although they've had uneven seasons, have stepped up in huge spots in the playoffs before. Yeah, I watched that Minnesota game pretty closely. It felt like a bit of a corner was turned, particularly when you're watching them on defense. And, you know, we got to throw the caveats out there. Minnesota is not the best offense in the NBA. That's actually the weaker point of the team.

So we need to, you know, let that be known up front. However, just the process of what the bucks were doing looks so much cleaner, you know, where on a possession where Dame gets switched on to, I think it was Carl Towns, who then stepped up to go set a screen. Behind the play, Dame is already switching with the boss man, right? Like, they're already, the communication is already like 20 times better than everything that was with Adrian Griffin.

Now, again, they got a long way to go, but it's nice to see those steps being taken with this. It's like, oh, this looks like a professional basketball team for once, right? Imagine that. They're doing the obvious things that are going to make them better. Again, that's a small thing, but like that that's what it takes, that level of communication, that level of connectedness. So that was nice to see on the defensive end from them.

And, you know, all reports out of Milwaukee, if I may say so myself, that people are way happier right now. It hasn't translated into wins yet on the floor, but people are way happier. Doc has professionalized the operation in a way that just didn't exist under the previous coach. and I think we're going to see a change. You know, it might ultimately not be enough to take out Boston or perhaps the New York Knicks, Justin,

but it's on the right track, believe me. So Gallo's just taking him to his favorite pasta spots and all of a sudden everything's rolling. Gallo's making the pasta himself as script. Don't sell him short. He's kneading the dough. He's doing that on his own. Yeah, the two takeaways I had from that game against the wolves

is one, Janus, with a spread. court going up with a head of steam against a big plotted into the paint is like just he's incredible. And while even maybe in Bede, we don't get him in the playoffs, there are still bigs out there in the East. Jared Allen, for instance, even Christoph Brazingis, the Celtics are at their best when he's out there on the court there. So Janus is going to be an advantage for them no matter how much they limp into the playoffs. And the second part of it though, unfortunately, was they played eight guys in that game plus five kind of pretty awful minutes with Gallinari in there. It's funny how we keep making the same dumb jokes about Doc Rivers,

but all of a sudden, Patrick Beverly, Daniel Galanari coming off the bench for this team in 2024. They're going to be riding the Lightning for the rest of the season. Like this is a very shallow team. Obviously, Middleton, they'll get back, him back in there. But like,

they're going to have to really like grip. Yes, they're going to grip the steering roll tight as we go through the stretch run. Can they ride the lightning with one young guy, please? Yeah. Just one. Just one.

And I get all of the caveats with all of them. Like they all. are pretty limited players at this stage, but AJ Green in particular, I think there's room in this rotation for him. Now, you're going to have to give up some of your Pat Beverly security minutes or something like that,

but I would hope that by the end of this thing, and look, these are famous last words, that Doc Rivers could find minutes for one young guy in this group. Danilo Golanari was in the original Carmelo-Anthony trade, guys. That was 15 years ago. He should not be getting minutes on a serious team. scene.

Watson Chandler. So do you guys still like the Bucks in this two seed race? There's a huge gap between the Celtics and everyone else. The Cavs, the Sixers. Who do you guys like? Well, so here's the thing. I like the Bucks as still the next best team to get deep in the playoffs in the east. But I think the calves might have the inside track on the two seed.

And some of that is Milwaukee's injury situation with Middleton. Some of it is like Cleveland is just incentivized to go hard, figure it stuff out, get a good seed, a favorable seed so it can advance against lesser competition because that bottom of the Eastern Conference is pretty rough. So I think it benefits Cleveland to push really hard. And frankly, the Cavs has just been sensational over the last two months, a little less so of late. But I love what they've done with their season.

And I think they, as much as anyone, like, probably have that inside position for the two right now. Yeah, I think I would have to tend to agree with Rob on the Cavs front. I think because the buck's goals are so much loftier, it's going to go beyond wins and losses in the immediate future. They're trying to work towards something that can win bigger in the playoffs. And so I don't know that they're going to be necessarily incentivizing, scraping by every single win. I think they're trying to build a process there. And wins might be sacrificed in that process.

And so I tend to agree with Rob on that one. The Knicks aren't giving a lot of encouragement here because on the one hand, they have all these reserves coming in at the deadline. But Julius Randall is giving kind of vague updates about his injuries saying that he's not sure he isn't going to do surgery on the shoulder. That is pretty concerning. And even if he plays through it, and even if he plays in the playoffs, I'm not sure you really want where we can rely on him. So it's getting pretty dicey.

A lot of precious to chew a. for the time being, so we'll see. OG Ananovi's also been out. And basically any Knicks minutes that don't have Ananoby or Randall are non-canonical Knicks minutes at this point. Like, this is a different team. And it's a lot of precious to chew, as you mentioned. It's a ton of Josh Hart, as Tibbs is ought to do.

He's just rolling guys out there, stretching them as much as he possibly can. Jalen Brunson's doing the Lord's work trying to create under these circumstances, but they don't have enough. They certainly don't have enough to beat really good teams right now. I noticed Celtics wings last night. We're very happy not to see OG An Ananovi. Trust me. So both OG and Randall being out, like these are major losses, okay?

OG seems like he's going to come back and generally be fine. The Randall thing is very worrying. Although, you know, let's face it, I think the best version of this team in the playoffs is not a 48-minute Julius Randall team, right? But, you know, they still need his offensive punch. Like he does, the guy's averaging 25 a game. You know, we can't just poo-poo that. Well, he does things that few other players in the league can do,

much less few other players on the Knicks could just step in and provide. Yeah. Meanwhile, the Sixers might win five games the rest of the year. I'm not convinced that that team isn't soft tanking at this point because there's very little to really hit your wagon to there. Maxi looks good. Maxi always looks good. Unfortunately, he can't score 70 points a game.

kind of related. It seems like the fields are pretty much set here. Unlike in years past, the play-in race just to get into the play-in doesn't really seem like it's bringing much to the table here. Am I missing anyone, Rob? The jazz are like technically within striking distance, four games out at 11th.

The mighty nets scoring 80 to 90 points a game now are three games back of the Hawks. Are you excited for the play-in race over the stretch run? Well, I think the play-in'est, in a race, especially in the West, is much less about 11 and 12 vying for 10, and much more about 7 and 8 vying for 6. It's that stability

of the short playoff spot. That's where you're going to see the tension. And frankly, between 5 and 8, the Pelicans at 5 and the Suns 8, one game separating those teams right now. And you could talk me into any of those four slotting into the spots. You could probably talk me into the Warriors or the Lakers

jumping over one or two of them along the way, too. So, like, that's where the tension point is. That's what's going to be interesting. Because a lot of these teams who are in this group, they don't want to be scrapping up from a play-in into a series against the Thunder or the Wolves or the Clippers or the Nuggets right out of the gate. Like the accomplishment is going to be tough

no matter where you are in the standings, but to do play-in into that kind of series just to get your playoff run going, that's not tenable, especially for some of these older veteran teams. Yeah, I want to talk about the seven through 10 or maybe even the five through 10 in the West right now, but just with the play-in race, right?

now, was, you like the Hornets rallying here, winners of five in the row before they scored 29 points in the first half against the Warriors? Yeah, that 29 feels like a good caveat to add onto that. Yeah, the Hornets of 14 and 42 guys,

and I think it's with good reason. I don't anticipate this to be some kind of trend that they're going to, you know, show signs of a quality team that just hasn't revealed itself at any previous point during this season. I have no reason to believe that. I think the Hornets

are pretty well cooked. Again, on the western side of things, the Rockets and the Jazz are interesting because we know the Rockets because they're in Phase 2 are going to be chasing the hell out of that very last playing spot. And the Jazz, they're a tank candidate. We know that. Until they get their, you know, their real quote-unquote team together and out there, I bet you, I'd be shocked if we didn't see some timely muscle injuries and guys getting rest on off nights. Like, I don't think the jazz are going to be chasing that temp spot. And so I think it kind of just leads the Rockets as that last team really vying to, you know, jump into the play in. That's kind of my concern, too, is that if there is a gap between 10 and 11, we might see some real tank toopia going on here over the last two months,

like especially teams like the Wizards and the Pistons, like maybe the Pistons actually want to show something, but the Wizards have absolutely nothing to really show for. They're demoted Jordan Poole. Like so we can get probably what the league is trying to avoid to a certain extent and seeing a lot of bad basketball from the bottom third of the league. But I agree with you guys. I think like the races in the West,

even maybe even the East here as some of those teams from the top slide into the play and mix could be, get pretty interesting. I do want to talk about the Nets quickly, who fired Jack Bond and Kevin Ali and not a goddamn thing changed. What are we doing in Brooklyn? Can anyone, like,

tell me what the roadmap here is outside of Sean Marks, just doing things in the media kind of washing it over and pretending like it's genius? Yeah, hang around, twiddle your thumbs. Hope you can get a star in there, like via trade, via draft, but like their draft capital situation is pretty complex. And honestly,

that Jacques Vaughn got kind of a raw deal. The Nets are not a good team, but the ways in which they tried to play made sense for the group that they had. Like, they're a flawed roster. And they never showed up in a way where when I was watching the Nets play, I felt like they weren't prepared.

They're just outmatched. And that's a construction issue, not a coaching issue so much. So I guess sometimes you just make change for the sake of it, like changing the energy in that team in that locker room, maybe that has its own purpose. But as it stands,

they feel a long, long way away. Like, McHale Bridges is a really good player, but ideally in a much less important role than he's forced to play right now. And frankly, that he's even comfortable playing right now. This isn't even the McHale we saw after the trade last season where he was kind of pushing and trying more stuff. He's settled back into the guy he is, and that's a really high-level player. But if he's your best guy, guess what? You're probably in a position where your coach is going to get fired. Well, if media reports are to be believed, and obviously, Sean Marks doesn't have any well-placed, you know, high-level guys.

in the media to sort of spit shine the turd that is the New Jersey Nets. If they're to believe this is not a new jersey now, boss, come on. This is not a re-oh, excuse me, sorry, the Brooklyn Nets, my bad. This is not a rebuilding team. Despite their 375 win percentage, this is a team that considers itself to be still in contention to, you know, trade for a star. If somebody comes open, like, we're a big. a destination according to what we're told in the media as it pertains to what the

nets are trying to do. And so, yeah, I guess Sean Marks is quote unquote biding his time. Joe side must really love this dude because this is about as rudderless as it gets. They're mired in no man's land. There's no reason to think that any internal improvement on this team would vastly improve their station. Like, you can't be, there's no realistic expectation that that would be the case. So it has to be either we aggressively go in the other direction or we just chill.

Because obviously they can't just, you know, make a star trade materialize, right? So in the meantime, they have to keep this roster as it is if they're not going to, again, aggressively court draft picks and future capital to replenish their draft holdings because obviously they gave a lot of it away in acquiring these quote-unquote stars that they had over there. Well, Justin, as the foremost Ben Simmons believer, how are you feeling about

him basically scoring in single digits every game, getting pulled out of a lot of these games? Not exactly covering himself in glory since he's been back from that injury. I threw my altar in the trash a few games ago, unfortunately. It was after watching this guy not be willing to step inside of the three-point

line. And either just like not wanting to go to the rim or not being healthy enough to go to the rim or shoot. So he's really just like a passer on the perimeter who occasionally will be an okay defender. It's one of the weirdest combinations I've ever seen. And if anything, like, I think that's the biggest flaw of the Brooklyn Nets right now. A lot of some of the projects that they've taken on here haven't taken the step forward. Rob mentioned McHale Bridges. Also, Nick Claxton, like one of the worst regulars amongst the team. He was a guy. that I think a lot of people were excited about is switching on defense, his rim protection,

yada yada. He hasn't really done much for them this year. And so like any of the growth stocks that they put effort into, Ben Simmons being one of them, they did talk about him as at least being a point guard who can get this team moving. Like the fact that that hasn't come to bear has to be really disappointing. And the question I actually when I asked was here is like, do you think any stars would look at Brooklyn and say like, oh, I want to be there just because it's Brooklyn? because I will say there are some pieces, Mikhail Cam Johnson, who would make like nice complimentary pieces,

but you have to have a guy wanting to be there. No, I don't see that. I can see a star being like, get me the hell out of where I am right now, and anything would be an upgrade. I can see that being the case with somebody identifying this Brooklyn roster, this Brooklyn management, ownership,

and be like, wow, they're really, this is top of the line. I can't wait to get the, you know, Atlantic Avenue. Like, come on, man. No, absolutely not. And again, these are good players. Like, Cam Johnson's a good player. Obviously, McHale Bridges, he had that scoring flurry at the end of last season.

Everybody was like, oh, this guy, he might be a guy. He might be, you know, a possessions type of guy that we just give him the ball and let him cook. And that hasn't come to fruition. Do you guys know how you feel about Cam Thomas? I don't think anybody has come to, like, a consensus. on that dude. And it's just like, you know, Dorey and Finney's, like, these are good players, but they can only elevate something that's already very competent.

They themselves are not going to make things quality. They're going to, you know, round off a high quality product. And so they have a bunch of those guys. I don't know why they thought just accumulating all of these, you know, high level role players would somehow add up to a real team. It just always seemed unrealistic to me. And that's the thing about building a team of good players. Good players don't get the blood pumping.

They don't make a star look at a situation like, oh man, I can't wait to play with these guys. Even though these are like good, talented NBA rotation players, Mikhail Bridges is the kind of guy you either appreciate when he's guarding you specifically or when he's already your teammate. But I don't know that anyone is eyeing Mikhail and being like, I have to find a way to play with Mikhail Bridges. that's just not really in the cards for his player type or any of these guys. Unless you went to Villanova.

Sure. But even then. And then you want to only play with Villanova guys, apparently. Well, they want to bring him into the full. You know, the Knicks are not migrating to the next. You think when LeBron signed with Miami, he was like, I can't wait to play with UD. Miami legend. Do you think that's what he was saying to himself when he signed with the Hedles?

Maybe not so much. But I know when he was going back to Cleveland, it was, I see a young guy. and Kyrie who can be even better than he's already been. And that's what the nets are missing. Like, you could, you could see a star talking themselves into Brooklyn if there was that young guy on the cusp of something, right? A Shay about to explode. A young Kyrie about to explode.

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plus three on the road in Portland. I know. They scored 29 points somehow in the first half against the Warriors, but that was just a throat clearing. They've been kind of on the money since the trade deadline five in a row before that. Let's go with the Hornets.

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Which team ranked 5 to 10 in the West do you believe in most? So 1 through 4 seems like it's pretty set. Maybe something happens over the next couple weeks here to change that. But Timberwolves, Thunder, Clippers, Nuggets, I feel pretty safe saying that that's probably going to be the four in some order. Then there's a four game gap. Five is the Pelicans. Mavericks are sixth, sons and seventh, kings and eighth, ninth, ninth, Lakers, 10th Warriors. Rob, any of those teams jump out to you that you believe in the most doesn't have to necessarily be regular season.

It doesn't necessarily have to be playoffs. Like, what in your gut, your gullet do you feel like is like the team that would rise above this? Cowboy hat off. Go ahead. Do it. I'm swaz, I can't help it. I can't help it. Really?

Wow. I will say this, of all the things we're talking about today, this is the most like ephemeral and fluid. Like you ask me this question again in a week and I might sing the praises of the pelicans or talk myself into the suns. But right now, the MAV's writing this win streak, undefeated since the trade deadline, including just absolutely demolishing the thunder. Like this is a team that feels like it's clarifying itself.

and adding PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford have been huge efforts in that respect. Getting, you know, Maxie Cleve of the back healthier and more engaged and able to play the five again has been huge for them. They just feel like a team that's making sense. And they feel like a team that's making sense around maybe the best player of this regular season in Luca Donchich.

And Kyrie Irving, a guy who probably is not getting enough, gotten enough credit for how well he's played and how well he's played alongside Luke. Like the quick activation stuff for him has been so promising. And it's like that, that's the thought. thought of what do any of these teams do in the playoffs? What makes them dangerous? Luca Donchich makes you incredibly dangerous. Having this kind of supporting cast now rounds you into a form that can win playoff series. And having Kyrie as the second side guy, the counterpuncher,

these other teams don't really have that to the same respect. Even if they have stars, even if they have success, like they're all a little shallower, they're a little flimsier, they're even more injury prone than the Mavericks have been. I cannot help but believe in Dallas a little bit right now. Yeah, I said this on in my feeling, shameless plug, but I am absolutely really into what they did at the trade deadline because I think going all in on Luca as Workhorse is a smart bet, especially at his age, and just being like, look, anything that we do, whoever we bring in has to be additive to what Luca

already brings to the table, right? So, like, we don't want Luca chasing guys around screens and, you know, being some amazing defensive play. We don't want to have to do that. The guys we bring in have to compliment that. And they have to work around his pick and roll creation, his isolation creation. And just like, br, it's making all of the sense. And look, it also helps that spiritually they got rid of the guy that kept wearing the wrong sneakers. I think that also.

helps the team when you know you get the spirit right uh the juju if you will right in the locker room and yeah i'm i'm of the belief that luca donchich is in the top two for MVP right now um again it's just the way he controls the game man it's like nothing else that's happening right now and so yeah Dallas to me is the smartest however quietly no stop the iha agenda is already taking place the warriors have been very good since Ramon game. The starting lineup for the Warriors has been kind of crushing it.

So I have them at a plus 28.3 net and 137 minutes. That's 15 games, not a small sample size. It just seems to work in the way that old school Warriors teams happen to do with the sharing the ball. And also,

I love the fact that like green and Wiggins are deferential by nature, green because it's in his best benefit to the offense. Wiggins just because he's kind of not aggressive and is just kind of blacks and wants to go take a nap most of the time. But it allows Kaminga to kind of settle into that number two option where like he could just be aggressive and kind of take what is there. And so like it does work there. I don't know if

they'll like make it pass like a Mavs for instance or even like the Sons and the Kings, but the warriors have found balance in a way that I wasn't expecting even a few weeks ago. Well, they're distinctly better than a 10th seated team. And they're better suited to contend than even some of these teams that are ranked ahead of them. So they're still a little flawed. They're still a little small. There's still a little outgunned relative to the best teams in the West. Yes. But other than that, it's kind of an open

competition for them. And I think a lot of that comes back to Dremont, too, like, I can't stand here and defend anything he has said on a podcast or from a press conference stage this season, but he has completely revitalized the Warriors since he's been back. He has changed that team

dramatically. And they play at basically like a top five defensive level when he's on the floor. getting that plus the starting lineup change, plus Clay looking really good coming off the bench, plus getting Chris Ball back in the near future, this is a team that's on the up and up that is definitely climbing in the standings and proving a lot in terms of just like competitive equity right now.

Was extension for Kerr? Was that surprising at all? Did you like that? No, it's not surprising, especially when you consider that it lines up with the last years of Steph's contract. So it's almost like, yeah, we're bought into this, this thing,

we're going to see this thing that we started in 2014 through. And whatever happens after that, it happens after that. We'll address it and deal with it and think about it then. However, I think it's smart to lock in Kerr, lock in the group and be like, guys, this is what we're doing, you know, until the wheels fall off with Steph. So, you know, smart move. Congrats to Steve Kerr and his family for banking a few more millions, you know? And I think it was the right thing to do. Because here's the thing, man,

Lake up in the past has liked to sort of shake up things and not do the obvious thing right away for whatever reason. Like, remember there was that time where he was like, I don't know that we're going to just hand stuff a five-year-a-mags deal. Then that nonsense was in the press and Steph had to do the counter thing of being like, I wouldn't mind going back to Charlotte and being a hometown hero and that kind of thing. So in the past he's been that, you know, sort of, I don't want to say antagonistic,

but he's like to sort of upset the Apple cart, right? And so him doing this, I think, is a good sign because there's been so much instability with the roster and the clay contract and Jordan Pugan snuffed in the face. And, you know, there's been so much of that. To lock in Kerr and be like, Steve's going to be here for sure, I think it's just a smart thing to do. This is also what I did in my last negotiation.

I was like, I want to line up with Woz and Justin, like put us on the same thing. term. I'm trying to get the three of us statues outside Spotify HQ someday and I feel like this is how we do it. Wait, is it going to be in L.A. or is it going to be in Stockholm? But why not both

would be my response? There's us wearing Pacers' white American jerseys just outside of Stockholm. One of a just a really great decision that we made. We'll be legends there. I got to say I'm in that stretch where I'm feeling

good about the Pelicans again. I'm sure I would change like in two weeks. No. We have one man. He's back. We have one rule on this podcast. One rule. Never trust the pelicans. That's all you have to do.

I don't really see where the balance comes from with this team. Like it just seems like they're always like a half step like off in a way that they could figure out. But then like the guy that they need isn't playing well. Like it's like, oh, we need a little bit more shooting. Trey Murphy's so great. But then he's like shooting 34%. from three and it's just like, I don't know about that. And it's just like, oh, Zion has the ball.

But then it's just like, oh, man, I don't know. What is Brandon Ingram doing? He's just going to space while Zion does that. And so I love what I'm seeing from Zion. I think we do need to give him credit for giving effort because I do think that is the difference between him being very good and electric versus being just average. Like we keep hearing these dumbass jokes about him being too fat from Stephen. I actually don't think it is the weight anymore.

I actually think it is effort on a game to game basis. Svelte these days. Svel, the Zion. Yes, exactly. But like, man, when he just gets like a little bit of a screen and gets a burst to the basket, he could finish over anybody and you're seeing that on and on and on. But I'm sure they'll just let me down in a few weeks here. So I'm hesitantly saying and just noting that they have been good, but we'll see. Yes. And they like routinely just step in and will wall up one of the best teams in the league. They'll just have these games where they make you a believer and then they bring your hopes and dream. crashing to the ground. So this is where we are in the cycle right now. I look forward to checking back in with the pelicans in a couple of weeks and we'll see how we're feeling, Justin. But I have to agree with you guys on the Mavs. They were the one team that I picked out of this list here. I think they're the easy target here. Winners are seven in a row. And on the one hand, like they did go the

quantity over quality route by getting a bunch of depth with Washington and Gaffron. You're seeing that payoff in the regular season. I do worry long term if like they get into a playoff series where they don't have the horses there. On the other hand, like, Luca's great is better than most other guy's greats. And so, like, just giving Luca opportunity, I think is going to be really interesting. And on the other hand, like, Kyrie has been electric in the seven games that they play. I don't think it's a coincidence that he came back from injury in those seven games. And he has been very good in that time, 27, six and six, basically. And so, like, we give Kyrie a lot of shit, deservedly so, deservedly so. Yes. But on the other hand, he actually does a good job of kind

of deferring and being that sort of like number two in a way that like we probably forget like he's done that with kd he did that with lebron until he didn't and he's doing that kind of again with luca and if he's going to play like this and they're going to have enough guys to fill out a rotation like maps could be dangerous that's the thing about them as a playoff opponent too is they do have a deeper rotation right now more good players than they can actually find minutes for at the moment but if you need to consolidate to eight and you have this new starting five you have gafford you have Kleba. You have Tim Hardaway Jr. coming off the bench. That's a pretty good playoff eight. I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not saying it's not exploitable. But that's where you get into

positions where, oh, you have Derek Jones Jr. to throw in there for defense if Tim Hardaway isn't cutting in. You know, when Dante Exum gets back and healthy, you can put him back into the mix, too. Like they have options in ways that teams like the sons don't. Like Phoenix is going to live or die with whether Royce O'Neill and Grace and Allen can hold up in the playoffs. They don't have alternatives to those things. Dallas does have some levers and pull. I don't. traded for Bradley Bill in the summer. Isn't he an alternative? Well, is he, is he available? Is he around?

Once a month. Yeah. I think the question with Dallas is they have all this stuff. Do you trust Jason Kidd to be the one pulling those levers at the right time, at the right moment against teams that Dallas will be a little bit overmatched by? If, you know, if they're coming in from the bottom end of the standings, are they going to be able to overcome teams like the clippers, teams like the nuggets. And Luca is the easy way to say they could, but they're going to have to nail a lot of small rotation and strategic decisions too. And honestly, they've done it before. Like they've made that kind of conference finals run before.

Yeah, I just hope Kyrie sages the training room, man, so that he can stay on the floor somehow. That would be nice. I'm sure he has the perfect incantation for that. I knew you said Rob before that, like, maybe you don't want to see a wolves or a thunder in the playoff series if you're some of these lower seats. I got to say I would think the opposite. If you're a young team like the thunder and your first matchup is Steph Curry. Yeah.

Like in a seven game series. That would be incredible. Traymond, or even if the maps wall. To get texts and get in their heads. It's the perfect setup, honestly. Yeah, these top four teams in the West

are so good. And yet their reward for being so good is, you're going to play against Steph or LeBron or Katie or maybe Luca if they fall in the standings a little bit. Tough. It's tough. Brutal stuff out there. Yeah.

So we should talk about MVP because we're talking about Luca here. So my next question is, is the MVP race, Shea Gilders, Alexanders, to lose? And now I think last time we talked about this, ESPN did one of their straw polls, they had Yokic first there. But I got to say, since then, seems like the tides are turning toward SGA. Maybe they were always going to do so. just because of how good they've been this year. But it feels like he's the frontrunner now.

Does that seem right to you guys? I don't know. I've seen the discourse online, Rob. If you see it, there's a lot of people mounting this SGA case because, you know, it's new, it's fun, it's fresh, it's it. I get it. I just don't see how you can say this guy has sewn up. Or not even, I shouldn't say sewn up,

that he's the clear, distinct frontrunner here. I'm not of that belief. me myself. I think he's right there with the Lucas, with the Yokic's. I guess we got obligatory because this is, you know, Boston media. Jason Tatum allegedly is in the running. We can talk about that. They're putting on the hard press there in ways that's just like, it doesn't make sense to me. But SGA is right there with the big dogs. I will say that. Yes. That's the positioning. To me, it's a pretty even race at this point. Like Yokic is still the best player in the world. And if anything, I think the natural gravity of the award race pulls in

his direction a little bit, given the way it went last year, given everything he proved in the playoffs, given the fact that he's just showing up and putting up like crazy triple doubles on a kind of nightly basis at the moment, shooting insane percentages from the field for a very good Nuggets team that is now back competing at the top of the Western Conference, like right there in the run for what could be the number one seed. I think you have to take that into account. I think he's going to get a lot of credit for that. Luca is going to be a presence in that conversation. Honestly, I still think Janus is having the kind of season where when people step back and

zoom out and try to put aside the latest crazy thing with the bucks, they're going to see one of the NBA's best players having maybe the best season of his career. And I think that's going to sway some votes too. So no one is in cold position right now. He's not going to win, but it wouldn't. But it wouldn't shock me if he's not fourth among these players. if he ends up like third in overall voting. So if you want to say who the best player in the league is,

I think we would all agree it's Yokic, and I don't think there's much of a debate there. Could you say that a little louder? The best player in the league is Jason Tatum. I've really liked when he scores 19 points and then tries to mount an MVP case. No, but I tend to disagree with you, if only more just trying to read the room

rather than say who should win it. Because it does feel like we're in the same situation we were in last year where it might take Yokic stepping out and saying that he wants it and to really mount a like a real individual case. And it's just like not in his DNA. Like he would much rather go watch the jockeys like just mount the horses and whatnot instead of just like going out there and scoring 40 points in a given night, which he's capable of doing him most nights. And so I just, if he wants it, he could probably go and take it. I'm expecting him not to want it. And for that reason, I think people are gravitating as was mentioned to the new shiny things.

I think that's why SGA, in my opinion, I think it is his lose, if only because there's just so much good stuff going for the Thunder right now. And then I think Luca is probably right out on his heels there, if only because the maps have just been so great over the past few games. And I expect them to really put it on over the next couple weeks. If Yokic does win the MVP, I think we should do a recurring segment where you just list like equestrian facts and terms that you know, Justin. Like if you just want to walk us through like the difference between a trot and a canter, I think we can clear out five minutes for that. Big Aqueduct racetrack. That was pretty good over here. Yeah, right.

And I will say this about SGA is what I like about his MVP candidacy, it hues closer to the Yokic than the Luca and the Janus, where he just doesn't force anything. Everything just seems to come to him naturally within the flow of what the, what the Pelicans are trying to do. He's not breaking plays off to go one-on-one at ice. he's just being. And that's the coolest thing about his MVP candidacy so far as like his ability to allow for the guys,

although he's a very young man himself, there's younger teammates to flourish and expand their games and expand what they offer to the team while just still being an MVP type of guy. That's been the coolest thing about watching Shay for me. Yeah. And to be clear, as I mentioned at our live show, if we were voting today, I do think I would vote Shea. I just don't think he has an overwhelming vote share so much as this is the part of the regular season where we shift our attention to a different MVP candidate and we talk about them a lot. And then eventually as the calendar turns, some people will move on. And I'm not saying everyone, well, I'm not saying Shea won't win.

But this is the time of year where we do this. Where we gravitate toward the new thing. Yes. Another candidate, a challenge or someone who honestly hasn't been getting a lot of airtime as an MVP candidate specifically because Joel was. so good earlier in the year. Like, I think it was basically assumed that if Embedde's stay healthy, he was going to win. And now we're all having to consider, well, Embed's probably not going to be eligible, if not already technically ineligible.

So who were we thinking about? Who were we voting for? Who's actually the most valuable of the players who can win this thing? She has as good a case as anybody. I can't remember the last time we've had a player up for MVP and then his teammate was one of the front runners for rookie of the year. like this is kind of unprecedented at least in as far back as i can remember and now on the one hand that's just a credit to how well uh the thunder have drafted and one thing i do love about both

shay and chet is how much easier things are for the thunder especially as they look forward and try to add that kind of fifth piece there is like how good they are on defense and how much flexibility that provides them when they put in isaiah joe against the clippers the other night they could afford to do so because their main three williams being the third is are they're already good defenders. And so you could add on top of that as opposed to like trying to shake things out just to get another defender out there, like a lot of some of these other teams that we've mentioned. On the other hand, I do wonder if they start to kind of like into each other's praise pie, so to speak. Like if you're saying that Shea is driving the thunder, does that mean

that Chet is going to be diminished? Obviously, I mean, Wembe's been just incredible. He had the five by five the other night and so like maybe that won't matter but like it will be interesting to see the kind of the award Djanga happening with the thunder. Yeah, there's a lot of praise to go around with what O'KC does and some of what you were saying was as far as the way Shea plays

and the way he empowers so many people it lends itself to that conversation. It lends itself to moments you're like man, J. Dub is crushing it this week or this month or honestly this whole season or Chet or you can like a Mark Dagnall might be the front runner for coach of the year. Like you have to consider all of these different

angles when you're thinking about why is it that OKC is so good? And it's because Shea allows them to play in a way that everyone shines, everyone eats, everyone gets to make their own individual award cases along the way. It's a great place to be as a young team. Well, you guys can make the case for Yokish for MVP. You're all worried about the selfish players out there like Yokic, known to not be willing to spread the ball around. The individual awards is what you gravitated toward. I'm about team. You know, I'm team first. I'm about titles. I'm about rings. It's all about ring culture here,

which is why for our next question, who's the title favorite, I think there's a pretty clear answer here. And that is the Minnesota Trimber Rules, right? Can he actually announce? Shout to future NBA champion, Mike Conley. You know, he's sizing up that ring. Let's do it.

No, I think Celtics, I think, are the clear favorite at this point, far and away the number one seed in the east, plus 10.2 point differential, number one in the league. And just like the path to get to the finals is so much easier. It's just littered with injuries. They're just going to step over like the bodies of like Joelle Embed with one arm and no leg from some other guy.

Whereas like as we mentioned, the West is a fucking bloodbath. There's going to be seven game series on and on and on where the Celtics could be like playing five game series up until they get to the finals. And so for that reason, I think the Celtics clear favorites. Yeah, was, I don't know how you feel about it now, but I'm starting. to teeter Celtics after really believing in the Nuggets all season, just because I think if those two teams meet in the finals, I do think the Nuggets win. I'm just starting to wonder if Denver's road to the finals is too tough for them at this stage. And some of that is Jamal Murray, now playing through shin splints. KCP's had a bunch of injuries throughout this season. The Nuggets

are a little shallow as it is. And you're looking at a playoff route that could be, you know, Mavs, Thunder, Clippers in back-to-back rounds if you're the Nuggets. Like that's tough for a team in that position. Shallow, you say. The Nuggets. If Jamal Murray has shin splints and can't stretch and if KCP is in and out of the lineup

or dealing with your nursing injuries and can't give you 42 minutes when you need 42 minutes from him, yeah, that's a lot of Peyton Watson. That's a lot of Christian Brown. Yeah. Listen, throughout the course of this regular season, depending on the team, we're about, what, 56 games into the season.

That's two-thirds of the season. The Boston Celtics have been the best regular season team thus far. There's no way to argue against that by every single metric. They've been the best NBA team. However, if the nuggets are reasonably healthy come postseason, meaning Jamal Murray can play, okay? And he can play 38 minutes. the game in the playoffs and Kenny can play 30 minutes a game in the playoffs and Yokic

is giving you this 40-something minutes, they're still my title favorite. I'm not going to get blinded by like, because we do this every year. It's like, oh, regular season, regular season. And look, there are things to be gleaned from the regular season, but we know when the playoffs come into a different game, it's damn they're a different sport. And so for me, I just think the Nuggets They were going to consistently have answers to questions that every opponent poses to them. And I just like the team's makeup the championship pedigree.

The continuity of this championship pedigree, the same five smoked everybody last year. I just, you know, I can't, I cannot quit the nuggets. I will not quit the nuggets. You're a believer. I think for me it is the stacking of odds on odds. Like if you tell me the Nuggets play the Thunder or the Nuggets play the Wolves or the Nuggets play the Clippers, I'm taking the nuggets in all of those series. I feel really good about who they are, as you said, when they're healthy, when they have their guys. But there's enough of a chance that they lose each and any of those matchups.

And then also the matchup against, you know, we're assuming Boston is going to be in the finals just because they've been heading shoulders above every other team in the Eastern Conference. Like, I just don't trust to circle back to our conversation at the top of the show. like we're trying to talk ourselves into the bucks. We're trying to believe in the calves that they can be something above and beyond who they were in last year's playoffs. I don't know that any of those Eastern Conference teams are really given the Celtics a run for their money

and that's where I get apprehensive. I, for one, I'm not going to underestimate the Boston Celtics ability to have problems in the Eastern Conference playoffs. I'm not going to do that. Yeah, y'all can assume Boston's going to breeze on through the Eastern Conference because that's not.

never been the case for them ever in worse eastern conferences than this so no i'm not going with boston's going to breeze through the play that's just this insane proposition to me like that is insane to think that this is where i'd like to remind you that like it's jason tatum's age 25 season do you guys remember when like where step curry was at age 25 he had just made his first all-star game they lost in the first round against the clippers i know everything changed after the that Drayman got it in there, Steve Curry got it in there. But like, we tend to ding the Celtics based on like formative years just because that they were more successful during those formative years when I think like now is the time

that they should hit the ground running. And like if you want to say Christops, like, who knows if he's going to be healthy over the course of the season? That's a big if. And he's not there. Like the Celtics take a ding in the way that a team like the Nuggets wouldn't just because if you have Yokic in there, he could just do so much for you. Whereas the Celtics are based on having the starting five right there.

But you watch this team when they're all out there together, and they are just, like, so well-rounded. Like, the two-way play, like, Drew Holiday is, like, he's the fifth most important player on that team, and all of a sudden, he's, like, punching guys in the post. He's, like, this team is just so complete in a way that, like, I can't remember. Right. Talent-laden roster.

We have put a talent-laden roster on the gravestone of many previous Celtics teams. To be fair, this is the most talented yet. this is like incredibly compelling as a contender. The most of any Celtics team we've ever seen of this vintage. I believe in them to get out of the east. But if they meet the Nuggets at that point, I would have huge questions about them. Let me ask you out something. Let me ask you out something.

Remember when the Nuggets just swept the Lakers in the conference finals last year? Yeah. Do you guys think the Celtics after the first round of the playoffs have the capacity to do that to any team they face in the, the Eastern Conference. Do y'all really believe that? They're going to do that to teams? To sweep a team? Yes. Like just out, just come out and dominate and kick everybody's ass in a playoff series. Like, I don't know why you envision that happening for the Celtics. I just don't think it matters. I don't think it matters. I'm, no, I'm saying it's going to be up in the air after the first round for them. That's what I'm telling. I don't know about that. Like, I'm not

saying they can't beat these teams. Obviously, they should be favored. But they are going to have a hard time getting out of the east. That's all I'm saying. I think if they play two eight seeds and a seven seed, yeah, they will probably win in four or five. Yeah, that's what I think. Before we go here, today's drop the ball is brought to you by State Farm. Let's be real. No NBA team is flawless, except for the Boston Celtics. They're all experienced highs, those glorious moments, and under the spotlight. At the same time, they go through those seasons when things just don't click. Rob, are there any teams this year that may have dropped the ball as far as having big expectations,

but maybe haven't really lived up to them? Well, I think the question is who might drop the ball or who could drop the ball. And if we're going to articulate all the reasons why we can't quite give up on the bucks, I think we have to at least mention all of the messy stuff that has gone on with that team this season, acknowledge all of their faults, all of their flaws. This is a team that does drop the ball

on a very regular basis. And so if you're banking on Milwaukee, a team that came into this season expecting to be a tried and true fully formed title contender, it's a little harder to talk yourself into that at this stage. And if you want to flash forward a couple months

and think about what is life in Milwaukee going to be like in June and July, I think there's a pretty realistic chance they're looking at this season as a disappointment. They're looking back and saying, man, we didn't quite have it. We were one guy short or two guys short. We were a little short in our defensive execution.

We weren't quite the team we thought we were going to be. What about historically wise? Not just this season, but looking back on things. Are the teams that dropped the ball? Oh, my goodness. I'm just thinking back to 17-year-old me with my Rockaware jeans on and my Aniche Valor jacket

and just watching the Lakers go up against the Pistons in the NBA finals, if you guys remember that season, they had signed Gary Payton, they had signed Carl Malone to ring chase. They were the overwhelming favorites in that finals against the Detroit Pistons and got utterly smoked in five games. It wasn't even close.

The one game that they did win was a fluky end-of-game situation. They should have gotten swept in the finals. And again, this is a team that everybody assumes. would overwhelm everybody. As we all know, that precipitated the end of that dynasty, shackened up in Miami and things of that nature. And so, yeah, when I think of teams that historically disappointed, although quiet as kept, Carl Malone was hurting the finals,

and so Rishie Wallace kind of went crazy. But whatever, it is what it is. I think about the 04 Lakers. Well, it is what it is, and what it is, Justin, is another talent-laden team falling apart. It does happen. That's right. I think that's when I was wearing Fubu football jerseys, too.

Oh, wow. A couple of pure players. Oh, five joints. Wow. You're just giving away that information for free. We didn't even press you on that. I know. Well, Rob, in times like these, need someone who can help,

much like the pure players, I guess. It's no different with insurance. State Farm is there to help answer insurance questions about your car, your home, and other things that matter to you, whether it's on the phone online or on the award-winning State Farm mobile app. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, that's the show. We'll be back on Wednesday, back to the regular schedule.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Tucker Tajin. We'll be back on Wednesday. See you. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling Problem.

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