The Ringer NBA Show - Examining COVID-19 Protocol Negotiations in the NBA and Athlete Activism | Real Ones

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

In light of Matt Sullivan’s recent article for Rolling Stone on the current showdown between the NBA and NBPA surrounding COVID-19 protocols, Logan and Raja have a frank discussion about what the outcome of these negotiations could mean for this season of basketball. They discuss players who are fighting to remain unvaccinated in cities that require it for entry to stadiums, athlete activism, and much more (0:40). Then they mention a few tidbits about Ben Simmons from the 76ers' media day (53:30) and each award their Real One of the Week (56:30). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's up everybody. I'm JJ John D. Stramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? Logan Murdoch, Roger Bell, real ones. Raja, how you doing, man? Slow motion, a slow motion, an hour earlier on a Monday morning. Like, I'm good, yourself. I'm doing, I'm actually doing great.

Yeah. It's just going to be a heavy discussion. I'm ready to go, man. It's right after this, I'm in the bay right now. I'm about to go to Warriors Media Day. I'm about to just, we're about to get, it's media day day. So I'm ready to like, you know, get, the blood is pumping. Like last night, like last night I couldn't sleep because I was ready for the NBA season.

Big tings, I was. Big Tings, yes, yes, yes, big tings on the horizon. We hear, lock in. But before we get to the NBA season and media day and things like that, there was a Rolling Stone article that came out on Sunday, Raja. You had to do it. I was chilling. I was chilling.

Getting ready to, like, do the rundown for the show. And Sasha Mack puts this. article in the chat and says, should we talk about this? And I'm like, first I see the headline, which reads, the NBA's anti-vaxxers are trying to push around the league

and it's working. This is by Matt Sullivan, who is a writer. The logo is bad line. The logo is dope. Yeah, shout out to Rollin's own for the logo. Shout out to Rollin's known for the logo. Just from an artistic standpoint. Not what it, I guess, I don't know what it represents, but from an artistic, nice little logo.

Matt Sullivan, who is written for G. Q, Lease Report. He's written a book, Hand Knock the Hustle, on the Brooklyn Nets. And so he's tapped in. So he has written an article for Rolling Stone basically talking about how 10% of the league, who is unvaccinated, is trying to force their agenda, Rajabelle, who is trying to enforce. they're trying to force, you know, maybe, you know, let's loosen the guidelines on vaccinations.

Let's loosen the guidelines on certain things. No testing on off days, Raja. No, just trying to get some concessions and not, and pushing back on the league's hope that they can get 100% vaccination rates or at least 99% and require vaccinations to be on the floor. And this is coming as cities like San Francisco and New York City are enforcing vaccine mandates where if you're over 12 and you want to go to a sporting event, you've got to get jabbed up. You got to get you got to get your shot. And this is coming on the heels. It came out on Sunday on the heels of other reporting from the San Francisco Chronicle, Rusty Simmons reporting that Andrew Wiggins, is not vaccinated.

And from the goal to say, Warriors, he's not vaccinated, and he has to go through his set of protocols. It might not, probably won't be able to play home games until he's vaccinated. But all that comes as, this story comes,

that comes on the heels of the store, where basically the centerpiece of this story is one, Kyrie Irving. Now, we will get to all the ends and outs of Kyrie Irving, but it's players like Kyrie Irving, who we're not exactly sure if he's vaccinated or not, But news came out before we did this podcast that he's not going to Brooklyn Nets Media Day because he's in COVID safety protocols right now.

We will get to all that in a second. And then we have guys like Jonathan Isaac who is proud unvaccinated player, proud unvaccinated player. He's bugging. And we're talking about how basically, which honestly happens in this country a lot and happens in the workplace. thy minority is basically trying to make decisions for the majority, right? And we've seen this all throughout. I want to lock in on Kyrie Irving because he is the centerpiece of this story. They talk to his aunt.

Basically, Kyrie Irving is he's liking post on Instagram. And I know you about some conspiracy claims that secret societies are implementing vaccines. and a plot to connect black people to a master computer for a plan of Satan. I have to read that out to you because this is where we're at right now. This is where we're at. And there's hesitancy from all ends from Kyrie. And this story really reads about how basically Kyrie Irvin and some other guys are being a little hesitant to get the vaccine. Raja, you read this story.

What are your impressions of this story? What do you think about this going forward? Is this going to be a thing going forward going into the training camp? It's definitely a thing right now. He missed Media Day this morning. Carrillo v. Miss Media Day this morning. It's a thing. It's officially a thing.

How big is missing Media Day? How big is missing Media Day? Second straight, by the West. Yes, in and of itself, not a huge deal, right? but when you consider the context and the history there with the Nets and Kyrie, it's a big thing. I feel sorry for the Nets. I do.

I feel sorry for my good friend, even though I talk shit on the show last week about Stevie Nash going into his second year. Just with the distractions and the silliness, the antics, like I just, I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for his teammates and people that are trying to get something done. you know, they fell short last year for one reason or another. So I do feel bad and it will be a thing, Logan, moving forward. I read the article and I'm not surprised. I'm just not.

You know, we walk these streets every day, man. Like you like to say, I'm outside. Like I hear to ignorance. I see it. I have the arguments. I don't choose to participate in them all the time. Like, you know, I've lost friends and people to COVID, you know? Like, yeah.

a good friend of ours. I take her son to football practice every day. She lost someone really dear to her about three weeks ago to COVID. Like just was a proud anti-vaxxer, non-mask wearer, clowns you when you had your mask on, and boom, like, COVID. Got sick. Four days later in the hospital died. I've also lost friends to the anti-vaxing rhetoric because I can't listen to that shit.

Yep. I don't want to be involved. Like, you're draining me, bro. So I, so I, you know, there's a lot. This is, you opened up, it was a pretty broad question and my answer is going to be broad as well. Like, I'm not surprised. I feel bad for the people in Brooklyn. And fundamentally, Logan, like you don't have kids.

I do. When you go to register them in a new school, every year, forget a new school. Every year it's time for them to go back to the same school. Do you know what the first hurdle you must clear is? are they vaccinated? If they are not vaccinated, I don't know all the vaccinations that they require

forgive me in elementary school, yo ass can't come to school. Now, you can choose not to get vaccinated or to have your child vaccinated, but there are repercussions when you make that choice. Do you understand what I'm saying? So at a fundamental level, I just don't understand.

Like this is, okay, in the article, Dr. David Ho, right? The article goes on to say Dr. David Ho, who is a renowned virologist, has been advising Adam Silver and trying to help him navigate COVID. Do you think, like this is where we're at. Dr. Ho and Adam Silver have an agenda. They're part of a larger conspiracy to link you to some friggin microchip and control black people. Listen.

Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sure you wanted some sort of like level-headed response. This is wild to me. And it's funny because you talk to,

there's another player who is, and this is the overall sentiment and within the minority, I want to make it clear, this is the minority of the league because 90% of the NBA is vaccinated, right? So can I cut you off for one more second?

Go ahead. Go ahead. Because they quote his auntie, right? I've never met his auntie. I'm sure she's a great woman. But her quote is saying something to the effect of like,

there are a lot of other. players like Kyrie. No, they're not. By definition, 90% of them are vaccinated. They're not a whole lot of other players like Kyrie. There are a few. And that goes into my overall point. You said it perfect with his auntie and also Jonathan Isaac, who talked about, alluded to get these types of non-vax people, people who are proudly unvaccinated, being bullied into vaccinated as a public.

against their wishes. And my pushback to that is, if you read this article, it seems like the, it seems like the unvaccinated are the ones are the ones that are talking the loudest, if that makes sense. They're the ones that are saying that we are having injustice. Our rights are getting taken away from us. And it's like, no, it's not necessarily what it is. By from a sink of numbers, that's not what is happening right now.

Because I just referenced 90% of the league is vaccinated. That's higher than the national average. That's higher. It's real, you're the safest you can be in that place based on a national average. And you're talking about putting other people's family at risk when you're not unvaccinated. Avery Bradley was another guy who said he couldn't go to the bubble because, yo, man, I got kids back at home that could get the virus, right? And that still holds true today. You have young boys.

You have young kids. I'm under 12. So you're putting everybody at risk. One of my sons, my two boys, 14 and 12, are both vaccinated, as are my wife and I and anyone within like arms distance of us, right? I have an immune deficient nine-year-old. Like, he has a suppressed immune system. He deals with stuff.

We can't afford to take the risks and have him catch COVID. Yeah. But I just feel like when you went as a, when you say you're being. being bullied? No, you're 10% and you're, and you're, and you're, let's say this, right, you're the 10% of this, uh, you're the minority in this whole thing and you're talking about where our, our rights are getting, no, also one that sounds very familiar. We've heard that rhetoric a lot during this time, right, Roger, we've heard that rhetoric. And they're always the loudest, they're always the loudest, right? It's not the people that are like, yo, man,

I'm trying to get, I'm trying, I need to get vaccinated because I have to go to a, be a frontline worker at these things, right? If you're these people that have, because especially in San Francisco in the Bay Area, like if you're unvaccinated, man, most of the people in Chase Center have to be vaccinated. Not even most people, you can't go into Chase Center if you're not vaccinated. So if the only player, only people that are not vaccinated are the players you're putting, you're putting frontline workers at risk, the security at risk, the fans at risk that have to go through these protocols to actually watch you play. And I think this is going to be a slippery slope, man. Like this could be a slippery slope in terms of if they've made it this way. Because by and large,

it is the minority. And this is why I don't think this is going to go too long because you have, it's going to be just like the bubble in my opinion. You're going to have a 10% that are the loudest that are going to say, they're railing against vaccines. And then you're going to have have Adam Silver who's like, hey, check this out. If stars sit out because they're not vaccinated, that means people aren't going to games. That means that's going to fuck up your pockets. And we saw what happened the last two times the NBA used this, right? It was the bubble where they were like, no, we're not going to play the rest of the season.

And they said, well, you're going to lose. I'm talking about the bubble when they were going back, remember? Then they're talking about the bubble, right? They took their ass into a bubble to make that money back. Then they were like, oh, we're going to push it to January to Martin Luther King Day. That's when we'd be more healthy. No, we're going to lose this much. Oh, I guess we're going to be on the court.

So if this happens for star players, and honestly, let me be full transparency. We don't know the demographics of star players that are not vaccinated versus who are vaccinated, right? Like it could just be, we don't even know if Kyrie is or isn't vaccinated. Like I said, it hasn't been reported yet. We don't know publicly. And so that's going to be a slippery slope. Do you think, are you on page with me to think that, hey, man, it's going to work itself out because it kind of has to under the current pay structure right now where the country is going? I know this.

Money is always going to win. It's always going to win. It's a business at the end of the day. It's always going to win. How much Adam Silver will take and how much MBPA will allow members of its leadership, which is a whole other topic I would like to get into, to, to, you know, to. muddy the waters and make a stink and just generally distract from what should be a good NBA season is the question. But money will always win. They will get that straight.

And the NBA goes on. It's like the NFL in that regard. Now, it's more star-driven for sure. But you can lose a Jonathan Isaac. Hey, bro, you don't want to get vaccinated? We'll holl. Guess what will happen? The show will go on.

Right? So if you've got 90% vaccinated, now again, to your point before, don't know how many of the megastars are unvaccinated. But it's going to go on. Money is always going to win. It's just going to win. So I'm with you in that, Logan. We know we're in the player empowerment age, right? We know we're in that age where guys can make decisions, guys can really take their future into their hands.

And we like this, right? By and large, I think we're we want players to have power. in their situations. But power doesn't mean shit if you don't use it, right? And I think that the players, I think while they have done great things with their power, they have done great with free agency, they have done great with getting people out to vote, and also, ironically, getting people out to get vaccinated, right? They have used their platform and the player empowerment and all of that for good.

Now, they have also used it, honestly, for stuff that I just think is just unnecessary, right? like, talk about the player awards, right? Just to have their own awards show. It'd be like the NFL and make sure, no, it's not the awards that the media puts out because the media doesn't know shit about basketball, right? And then they, they, then those summer shows that you, that you like fought, fight and claw to have, have shit ratings, right? And then you do, because you wanted to stick your chest out and say, hey, we needed to do this.

And then it's like stuff like this where honestly, man, it's not really that big of bro, just go get a shot or just, or like, or don't play, right? It's one of those two things. Get a shot or don't play or don't try to, don't get this bread. It's basically the decision that you have right now. But do you think that the player empowerment movement has just kind of gone too far with certain things? I don't think you can, I'm one of those dudes that like if you, if I'm for player empowerment, like, I'm for player empowerment. Like, there's always a risk of, of with that power, you're doing really good stuff and then really dumb stuff. Like, so You know, I always am going to be firmly planted on the side of player empowerment.

Yeah. Do I think they've made some silly decisions with it? Yeah. Do I think they need to check themselves maybe some more, right? Like checks and balances are always good, you know, within a government or a players association or what have you. Like, you need to get some of that in check as a leadership body. Like there's some of that that may need to be done better. But I'm fine with player empowerment because without that, you know, you're talking.

talking about a different type of institution. Like, we're all still making a lot of money, but there's got to be some say if you are the, if you are the talent, if you're the one making the show go on. Like, so I'm with that. I would never step out of that camp. I think with the NBA, it's, especially with the NBA players, I think we talked about this, I think last year with media and NBA players where there's, we have to realize it's a partnership. I think there's still maybe a little bit, especially in this instance, that the players just need to realize that. it's a partnership with the league. That's what it is, right? Like, you want to get what you need,

but they need concessions too, because at the very, if we go so firmly into the players' interests and everything like that, the legal crumble. If you go fully into the league's interests, the legal crumble. You have to have that counterbalance

and things like that. And I just think that, I think at least in this instance, we've lost side of that, because you juxtapose this with other leagues, Raja, even another, the NFL who was like doing it with the vaccinations, right? They're, they are with more players.

Right. They are getting the vaccinations right. The WMBA, right, who has 99% of vaccinations in their league because they had that partnership. Well, I can't speak for the WMBA. You're more well versed in that than I am. But in the NFL, I mean, that's not surprising to me, even though they're more players, because that league is less about cooperative, like, um,

working together type of this is this is players and owners trying to work together to put out a great product this is a dictatorship so that's not surprising to me um i i also found it interested in logan um that you know and and slightly obnoxious that the 10 percent like not only are they railing against getting their vaccinations um but then they also want all of the all of the mandated like testing and precautions and protocols lifted and changed and shaped so they're not inconvenienced. Like I just find that really entitled and really obnoxious. And I think I can say this because I was one. It's not surprising to me.

Like we're in that world and we think it revolves around us, everything here. So you talked about all the people in the Chase Center, all the frontline workers, all the people that are making a living, trying to support us and making the show go off and doing all of the things that we don't see on a daily night in an arena. And we've got no regard for it. So doing everything you could do just so you could show up. Just all you got to do is show up, right? But I've been that so I can say that. I just, I found that part of the article really interesting and obnoxious.

Do you, it was funny because I'm glad you brought up this point. Do you think that it's less about vaccinations and more about the players like being pissed off that they're being told no or that they can't do something? I don't think it's less about that. I think we'd be naive not to at least appreciate the fact that that's involved in their reaction. But I do think this vaccination thing, I think, you know, it's for one reason or another. I mean, I would have, I mean, shit, man, think about the major pandemics in the world. And when they came up with a vaccine for them, like, did, I mean, clearly we weren't around for that.

But I would imagine you had people clamoring for the polio vaccine. Like, I, like, yeah, I, I don't know if it elicited this sort of, like, divide and this sort of, you know, conspiracy theory. But I do think there's a lot of guys in the NBA, or not a lot of guys, sorry, a lot of guys in that camp of 10% of NBAers that are your typical, like, conspiracy theorist people. Kyrie being the front and center. And here's the problem, right? You talk about misinformation. You look at that article. We talk about Jonathan Isaac.

What was he doing last summer? was looking at YouTube and watching Donald Trump speeches. You can see it in there. And then he grew a distrust for science and Dr. Fauci's work. And which is crazy to me is like, this is the dichotomy of NBA player that really like fucks with me. Because the same attitude of defiance actually helps you on the court is the same thing that is like kind of gets you fucked up. And the ego, right? where you're like, yo man, I, and we see this all the time, you're going to try to discredit someone who's dedicated their life to science, right?

And you get mad on the back end when someone critiques your game, a game that you have built your life working out at, right? You've built your life, right? You see what I'm doing, right? But like, but I've seen this with NBA players in general where, like, they have the audacity right now. where they're saying, and I get it because it works and it helps you on the floor. Like, you have to have the audacity of just to be like, I don't give a fuck what you think. I'm about to hit this shot. I don't give a fuck about that statistic.

I'm going to shoot right now. You need that. But I think you're seeing this in business with NBA players where they're making these media companies, right? And they're saying like, hey, I can do this better than you. Logan, I'm better at this than you are. And like, I've dedicated my life to being a media member and doing this journalism shit in writing. And then all of a sudden, you come in and you're like, hey, man, I'm going to pick this media company. We're going to make it pop. It don't work that way. The same work ethic that you need for to be on the court is the same work ethic you need overall. And that goes into this misinformation shit where, dude, you're looking at a YouTube video with hella typos and hell of like dudes with, like, who have their like face blanked out and it says like former FBI's in or whatever. But like, you see all these videos and stuff like that. And you're like, oh, that discredits. a man or somebody or scientists that have dedicated their life to this shit.

Me and you, Raja, we couldn't go to a science lab and tell them what to do. We don't know the first thing, bro. I'm not good at math and biology. I sucked at that, bro. I'm going to fucking go to the scientists who do this on a daily basis. But you're starting to see this now with just athletes and people in general who are like trying to take shortcuts to get information, right? and you're not seeing them go to New York Times.

You're not seeing them go to the Washington Post. You're seeing them go to, I don't know what they're looking at on these pages, right? Where it's just these people doing these unverified speeches. I just don't, this misinformation is really bad, Raja. And that's when you get articles like this where it's talking about the 10% as opposed to the 90% that is vaccinated. So that was my spiel, Raja. Go ahead with that with what you will. First of all, like Jonathan Isaacs.

Leonard Hamilton, come get your man, bro. I know ham. We go way back. Come get you young fella, man. He needs to take another couple courses at Florida State, though. Like, he needs a little bit.

Dr. Fowler... This is why you athletes seem to go to class, Rob. Straight up. Straight up. I didn't see the importance of it that I see it now. Dr. Fouchy, correct me if I'm wrong. And please do, because I'm, but he's worked in three different White Houses. Am I correct?

Bro, he was on front line for AIDS. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of something by George W. Bush for his work with AIDS. Yeah. Like, and that virus. Like, what are who the fuck? Which is still an epidemic, by the way. Yeah, but who the hell are we? I'm not even like pointing fingers.

Who are we to be questioning? questioning, like, Dr. Fauci's ability to stand up and address a nation in regards to what it needs to do to help control a virus. It is laughable. This is the thing, though, but it's, it's, it's bigger than that. It's when, when politicians are politicizing this, this untruth shit, right? And other people are politicizing this. And it's not just in, like, when I was growing up, and I'm sure to a extent when you were growing up, bro, like, all those misinformation campaigns were largely like in the, you would get laughed at if you got squashed. Yeah, you squashed out.

You got squashed really fast. But when it's coming into the mainstream media and things like that and we are giving this light and giving this misinformation light, that's the problem with this shit, right? When you're giving, when you're giving like the 10% minority, like full reign to speak on this unchecked. That's when we have a problem. Because we're not talking to, bro, this is where we need to like really, because this is why I stop honestly getting on Twitter. Because if you look on Twitter, these people, they're talking about chyria and you think that this is like a really big thing.

When you look at this, this is 10% of the NBA population. And they're the ones that are going to have to get vaccinated just because of money. I think that they're going to get vaccinated off top, off rip, because there's just too much money at stake. But if you go into an NBA locker room, if I'm going to Media Day right now, I know that they're going to, they're going to make sure that I have my vaccination card. They're going to make sure everybody has their vaccination card. And then before you can even see the players, right? So basically, it's you putting me at risk and my family at risk, bro. It's not the other way around.

You need to get on your shit. And so when you see that, it's not as polarized. as you think, but we're giving this voice, unchecked voice, to this 10% who are really misinformed. And it's a product of this whole thing because these same people, they're saying, it's funny because Jonathan Isaac is saying the same rhetoric that the people at the Capitol riots who he, that the large majority of the NBA railed against, he's saying the same rhetoric as they are because they're getting their same information from the same place, Ronald. You're You're caught in the, what are they called that?

Not the Matrix. I mean, it is the Matrix, but what is, I'm looking for a word when you're, when you're searching. You lost in the sauce. Yeah, I mean, whatever that looks like, right? You're in that algorithm and it keeps showing up on your phone. That's what you're in, right? You're caught in that.

And the only information being fed to you now is that dumb stuff. And then they're saying, I just want to have a conversation. No. Stop, because you're not. You're not trying to have a conversation. You're not. Let me just say this about leadership. I think it's important for the MBPA, right?

Every team I've ever been on any organization I've ever been in, any business I've ever been around. If they had success and if they were good and if they were ran well, your leadership was stable. Your leadership did not come in from day to day as different people. You didn't have to worry about whether that leader was in a good mood today, a bad mood today, whether they were going to speak to you today, whether they were not going to speak to you today.

They didn't concern themselves with conspiracy theory type of rhetoric where you'd have to, you had a steady hand, a steady emotion, someone who served as a beacon of light in a storm. Was it part of the storm or whipping the storm or like they were a steady hand? that's what leadership is about. And I mean, our country experienced it. I think the MBPA needs to, you know, it can't always be a popularity contest. Star-driven. Can't.

Now, I looked at their board. We did it right before we came on. It doesn't appear to be that way. There's some names on there that aren't the biggest stars. It doesn't now, though, but they just had elections. Like, LeBron used to be on the executive committee. Like, Chris Paul used to be on the executive committee. Chris Paul, and I'm saying this, as someone who's a huge fan of Chris Paul and what he's done,

he also made it great to get the Supermax later in your career, something that he's, like, greatly benefited from. So when you have these stars doing this, this happens in every league. When you have stars on the executive committee, you start getting stuff, like it's human nature. You start getting stuff catered towards stars in the 10%. And that, like, that 10% or whatever that 10% is, you start getting. the higher 1%, you start getting that to that point where they are all taken care of and everybody else just isn't. And so it has recently, C.J. McCollum is now the president of it, but it was,

Chris Paul used to be. And LeBron used to be on the executive committee, right? And as great as those guys are, and we both acknowledge that they are great people. They still, they still, human nature is going to say that they're going to take care of themselves first and then figure out everything later. I mean, look, I don't know CP3 like that. And I guess I was around and in some of those meetings. And maybe I just didn't, it wasn't experiencing it that way. I was at a different point. In my life, I was worried about other things.

I would, you know, people who act emotionally, like me, for example, like when you talked about me on most teams, I was the emotional leader of teams. There was a difference between being an emotional leader of a team and being the true leader of a team. I was a highly emotional person, like would come in some days and not be the best example for people in that locker room. Not, you know what I mean?

You'd have to worry about all shit. Is he on that shit today or not? For those reasons, I can't be your leader. I can be your emotional leader. So people who are wired like that sometimes, and I've worked with Kyrie. I know that sometimes he's on that.

You just got to be careful about those people being your leaders. The thing is, though, and it's like, this doesn't get spoken up enough, bro. One, we're all trying to figure this shit out. And two, like, me and Kyrie's around the same age, I couldn't imagine being on, like, having so much, I couldn't imagine having so much power around this age like that.

And being in charge of so much bread like that, right? And so I want to juxtapose this with a quote from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in that Rolling Stone piece. And Kareem was dropping some bangers. he was dropping some minutes. He said, he said, the NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team. There is no room for players who are willing to risk health and lives of their teammates, the staff, and fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research.

What I find especially disingenuous about the vaccine deniers is their arrogance at disbelieving, immunology and other medical experts. Yet, if their child was sick or they themselves needed emergency medical treatment, how quickly would they do exactly what those experts told them to do? Y'all. And then here's one.

Here's another thing. I want to read this other quote beforehand. They are failing to live up to the responsibilities that come with celebrity. Athletes are under no obligations to be spokespersons for the government, but this is a matter of public health. By not encouraging their people to get the vaccine,

they're contributing to these deaths. I'm also concerned with how this perpetuates the stereotype of dumb jocks who are unable to look at verified scientific evidence and reach a rational conclusion. A lot from Kareem. Kareem was dropping balls. Kareem, who was more of an activist than a lot of these people, right? And I say that, I say that knowing what it takes and reading up on what it takes to be an activist, dude,

it takes a lot. It takes a lot to be this way for everyone, right? And so that's why it's so dangerous when a Kyrie Irving or a Jonathan Isaac are, you know, Jonathan Isaac in particular, because I want to be careful with Kyrie Irving because, again, this is also another problem with Kyrie, is that he has a lot of other people speaking for him. And, like, I don't know what, I can't differentiate what he says out of his mouth versus what other people say for him.

So it's like he's in this gray area where he won't speak. And I got to ask other people around him how he feels. And then he can always have the built-in excuse of, well, you didn't ask me, right? And so I try to be, so we can go to Jonathan Isaac because he is specifically on record with this. That's why it's very dangerous to put like your, put all your opinions on what a celebrity thinks, bro. They're just like us with a whole bunch more money and access, right? They don't, come on. They don't, we can't expect a celebrity to fucking read as much as like us.

Like they're not. And I would, they're not. Like, some, some are, but I played in the NBA, right? And most of the stars that you would look to as role models, like I was not one, maybe for a couple kids, but not overall, right? Like I didn't have that level of success or celebrity. A lot of those dudes don't have. stories that would like allow them to understand what you're going through or for to share any

sort of like mutual experiences so they're not just like you they're not they are in the fact that they're human beings and they you know they walk and they talk and they breathe and they tie their shoes like yeah for sure but you know looking up and taking someone's word for that who's 27 years old and was the best basketball player in the world since he was and has been treated like such, they don't have anything in common with you. They can't understand where you're coming from. But they're trying to speak for us, right? And that's the thing.

It's like, like, Kyrie Irvin, for instance, damn it, I don't want to talk about Kyrie. A normal NBA player, for instance, right? Probably played AAU. Like, I already know what it is like for AAU, bro. You're on the road every single day. You're in gyms all the time. Every weekend. You're not worried about, you're taught to worry about just the game.

game and rightfully so if this is your dream this is what you want to do right like this is your sole focus you put your whole focus into that you're not thinking about other stuff this is the probably when you're in the NBA it's probably the first time you have this much free time on your hands right like after practice you guys from like two to 11 o'clock you're playing video games you're like you're you're just have all this time to do whatever you want to do especially when you're single before you have kids you're at the crib or you would show pot and you're so isolated from the world. And so I think that it's hard to, like,

when you think about what a celebrity is and what they do and how they are isolated from the world, when you really get the dichotomy, you know this as much as I do, Roger, because you were a celebrity adjacent. You know what they kind of go through, by and large, where they don't really, they're not in the same world that we're in.

They don't even live the same life that we're in. So they're thinking about all these things, and that's who people listen to to get their guidance. And that is just so wild to me. Well, that is dangerous. It's so wild. But that, it brings home and it makes Kareem's quote even more poignant for me. Like, because I was a lucky young black man.

I didn't, I liked watching Michael Jordan play basketball. And I liked watching, I don't know, Andre Dawkins play baseball and, and people like that. but they weren't my role models. My role model was my dad. Right? My role model was my mom, my uncles, my aunts. I had a very solid family. And for that, I'm forever grateful and super blessed.

But not everyone has that. And then it becomes even more important to Kareem's point for these young black men who are being looked upon to set the example and to be role models and to, you know, provide some sort of, I don't know, real. roadmap to success, if you will, for a generation of kids. They may not be as lucky as I was because even more important that they do it. And they respect the fact that it's their responsibility. And whether they like it or not, it's happening.

Right? And with that comes responsibility, Logan. Do you know what I mean? That's a big responsibility. And I'm not saying that I would be equipped. I was not. I was so stupid, still am. But even more so when I was 25, 26 years old.

So stupid. Yeah. But I think, you know, I think that what we talk about that African Americans are more likely to get COVID, right? People of color are more likely to get COVID, these poorer communities. This is not, this is not just a matter of black and white, but this is a matter of access, right? I was, you know, a few weeks ago, I was at a, I was at a, I was at a homie's house. And they have, you know, have a lot of money, right? They have a lot of money.

Well, more money than like, you know, the average person. They have, you know, not like super rich, but, you know, have the house, have the kids. Their kids are, you know, schools taking care of and things like that. The American dream, basically, right? They have all these things. And I'm chilling. And, you know, their kids are watching the game or watching the game doing their homework, getting quizzed on certain things.

They just have just this access to a lot of things. We're able to do their homework. You know, read a lot more than the average kid and things like that. And also watch the game get questions asked, just like critical theory questions, like just getting their brain stimulated, right? Whereas also, I grew up on the other side of that where kids just don't have access to. you know, libraries, even if they see it in their neighborhood, they just don't feel like

it's that attainable, right? They don't have access, you know, I say read the New York Times in the Washington Post. Guess what? That takes money, bro. That's, that's $10 a month that could go to something else when you are poor, right? So when you talk about access, you don't really have the means to get the education. The school system in Oakland is so trash. It's so bad. That's why I didn't go to school in Oakland. And I have parents that were trying to get me out of distance. because the schools were bad. This is public school. We are in America, right? You don't, you don't have that same access. And then you have to, and then you would have to pay for private school, which is even more money. This is a capitalist society. So we can rail against kids and

stuff for this celebrity culture and things like that. But that's the only free bit of information that these people get, because they can't afford to know and they can't afford to be smart. Or if they do, they have to go above and beyond and someone has to buy it and help them. So that's when you talk about, that's why misinformation helps, like, is so rampant and it's so, like, It's dangerous. It's so bad. It's so dangerous. Thank you, Roger.

It's so dangerous because you have these people who don't have the means to get the information and the people that they look up to are not on their shit. And that's why that's dangerous when Jonathan Isaac says some bullshit like that the way he says. Because people look up to him who don't have the means. and who don't have anything else and all they see is an NBA player saying this shit and they're like, well, I don't have anybody else telling me.

I don't even know what a medical professional is. I can't even see a nurse. I don't even know what that is, bro. So that's why it's so dangerous and that's why you have to be very careful when you're at this level of what you say. And honestly, sometimes being silent is enough in this case.

Instead of saying some bullshit, just be quiet bro you know what logan i bro i mean listen i don't know how listen i i get into this all the time i argue with people about this shit all the time because i i i know i'm not the smartest person in the world like i i i got it i know i'm not the smartest person in the world but there's something to be said for that right there's something to be said for understanding that um do you know what i there's one thing that i get up here or i would even around my friends really get up and argue tooth and nail because I feel like I know it better than you. Yeah.

It's fucking basketball. It's basketball. Now, I will talk about a lot of things, but if your area of expertise happens to be the centerpiece of this conversation, right? And I am not well enough versed in it to either hold my water or, you know, have a counterpoint to your point. I don't do it because I don't know. when we talk about basketball, this is why me and you have clear, this is why me and you are clear in a lot of ways, but specifically we have boundaries in this, right?

I don't go too far into basketball nitty-gritty because I have a basketball player right here to tell me, right? Someone who's lived it. You always defer to me when it comes to media shit. Because like here, buying a lot, you only know for a certain thing. And I want to get into one thing, and I really want to get your opinion on this, right? And I want to also be careful with my words on this because it could get discredited and misinformation and things like this. But what I'm saying is because this is why it's, this is also showing why it's so hard to be an activist, right? Because especially like right now with activism in the NBA, it's starting to get even marketed, right?

Like, hey, we have this social justice initiative and we're going to have such and such talk about it. right? We're going to have such and such talk about these things, this professional basketball player talking to me about activism for no other reason than he or she or they or whatever is black or a person of color. We're just going to have them talk about their experiences, right? Which also is a very thing that you should do. You should listen to your black and brown people. However, I think that we're getting lost in the fact that these people have to be educated, man. These people have to actually know what they're talking about and not spit out conspiracy theorists to people that look like them, right? Yeah.

They shouldn't. We have to have certain people who are well versed in these things who have dedicated. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar has dedicated his life to this post-basketball, dedicated his life to this during basketball, dedicated his life to this period. I, we don't have to make sure because it's unfair to prop up everybody as an activist. It's just not, I think of Kyrie as somebody like an Eldridge Cleaver, right, who was one of the original members of the Black Panther Party, who railed out against racism and all these things. Then he got disillusioned and became, became, went on the side of the very people he was, who he says he was fighting for. And just because he was just disillusioned in a lot of these things. And I feel like Kyrie in the beginning wanted to do the, wanted to do right, right?

And let's not discredit the other shit he's done. Paying for WMBA players to who, when their season was messed up, to make sure that they had a salary, right? Making sure he's also sitting in on these city council meetings and things like that and making sure he's sitting in on these things. But, man, you got to put your life into it. And I'm just saying that it's just hard. It's hard to, it's just hard.

You know what, it's a really good point. And in fairness to Kyrie, because I don't want to make it about Kyrie either. I've said before. I know his heart seems to be in the right place. Like he does a lot of great stuff. But I think kind of what I'm taking away from it, or at least this is my thought. I'm not trying to put words at your mouth.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is what, 70-some years old? Yep. You know, with age come experiences. You know, with experience comes like vision and clarity. You lack that at a young age. It's not your fault. Like your heart can be in the right place, but you, you, you, you, your, your opinions are shaped by those experiences, right? And those visions and those, you know, successes and failures and

understanding of, of, of someone else's perspective on what you're looking at. Like, and I, and when I was 25, I had no ability to say, all right, Raj, step back, because you're looking at it through your, your, your eyes, right? This is your lens, your prism. Step away from that. walk around the outside of it and try to look at it from the other side of it. Can you do that? Yeah. I couldn't.

I was locked in on me. It was me. It took me having children, Logan, and a family. And it's still, when I first had kids, it was still about me. Like, it took time and I'm a work in progress. So I only say that to say, again, when I was 25, 26, 27, it was impossible. I was only looking at it through one lens,

had no experiences that would have shaped a well-round, opinion of what I was talking about. Do you know what I mean? Like it was, it's required. It's, you know, especially when you're talking about

something like activism. Yes. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like you're not talking about running pick and roll or, you know, like how much you tip the bartender at the end of the day. You ain't talking about that. You're talking about activism. That's a life,

that's a lifelong body of work. It's like, yeah, man, and I think that this, the thing that we're seeing right now with NBA players. And like, dude, I get it.

But I think NBA players need to realize, man, especially right now, or NBA players and players at large, because I feel like everybody's been propped up and not even, it's not even their fault, man. Like, a lot of players are just saying, bro, don't kill me because I'm black. Don't kill me. Don't fucking shoot me in the back, dude. That's a fine request, right? But they're not thinking about policy. That's not their job to think about policy, right? So, but it's funny because I want to be very clear.

I am pro-vax, and I do believe that players should get vaccinated, if only because, motherfucker, I'm about to be in these locker rooms, dog, and I got a family, and I got shit, and just for that alone, right? But I think you're seeing NBA players in a sense that, yo, they have to use their brain power for something else, and it's not working because you can attest it as an NBA player, Rajah. Your whole life is predicated on proving people wrong and telling the people that they don't know shit, right?

Like, if you were to, if somebody were to say at that Atlanta Hawks thing, hey, Roger, you ain't an NBA player, bro, you're not good. If you were to say, okay, I guess I'm not an NBA players, then you wouldn't be talking to me right now, right? You would not be talking to me. So if somebody, like, you put that on a bigger level of vaccine, they have to, it's not like you can turn this off. It's not like you can turn that off.

When you hear somebody telling you, no, man, you got to get vax, bro. No, you can't go on the court unless you're vaxed. They're like, what? I'm an NBA player. What are you talking about? I'm the reason why all this shit exists. Fuck you. Right?

Right? I mean, I'm talking about star, ego and all that shit. Like, fuck you. I'm the reason why we're here. Right? They're not looking outside of themselves. And that's the problem. That's where we're at right now.

They're not looking outside of themselves. And so I think eventually it's going to get done. If you ask me what's going to have and I think it's going to get done, if for only the reason that, it's going to suit the richest, the highest common denominator's interest. That's really all it is going to come down to. The money.

And I think it's going to be the money. But I would just, I mean, ask Carl Anthony Towns if he would. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, people who,

you know what I mean? Like, that man's whole life was turned upside down. I read all, he lost his mom, bro. I was reading an article this morning about like, you know, him in the aftermath of that

and what he was going through last season. And, and like, that's a world. And, you know, so if it doesn't affect you, You know, you just challenge people, dude, if it doesn't affect you and you haven't been affected by it, like, find someone near to you, find someone close to you and talk to them, someone who's been affected by it like that and see if that doesn't change. See if you can't then look outside of yourself.

Yeah, man. And it's funny because, again, like, they're not taught to look outside. Athletes aren't talked to look outside of them stairs. They're talked to have tunnel vision. Why? Because I need to get this bag. I need to get this contract. I need to set up shit for my family.

You know, I need to, I'm, I was the, in some cases, bro, I was the, this is all I got. No, you're absolutely. And this is all. You're absolutely right. But it's, it's, can we just, can I take it from this big, heavy topic and just put it into, like, why team sometimes don't, like, work out? Because that's true. Not everyone can give up a part of themselves to be on a team.

It's why you see stars sometimes earlier in their career until they're secure in who they are. Bag is secure and all of the whatnot. Only then can they say, all right, I'm ready to go to a team and try to win a championship. Because, you know, they're trying to win one early, but it's got to be on their own terms. They've got to be the one to do it. Sometimes you've got to give up some of yourself. I've had players like real talk. I said to a player once, I'm not going to say any names.

Man, if you just play some defense, man, like we just need a little. bit of defense out of that. We'd be a much better team. He looked at me and said, hey, sometimes asking somebody to play defense just takes away from their offense. Which is actually right. Which isn't wrong. But that's not the point. The point is we're not going to win unless you play

some defense. And like, maybe you give up a little bit of offense to play some defense because that helps us. But that was not what said player was interested in. He was, he wanted to play out. You see that like I'd say like a Carmelo Anthony, right? Great player. Great player.

made a lot of decisions for Carmelo Anthony that didn't necessarily mean he was going to win a title, right? There was chances for him to leave, and now he might win a title this year. Why? Because, you know, he's taking a lesser role. He's diminished, obviously. His skills are diminished, but, like, you know,

might win a title because he's a role player. So that's how it is. But, man, like, it is a heavy topic. Yeah, I just, I, yeah, that's what we have right now, man. I think it's all going to work itself out. And dollars and cents, maybe. Dollars and cents, there's still a little under a month until the season starts. Look at that Johnson and Johnson get jabbed up real quick.

It's going to be a lot of that. And I think all these players are going to get their vaccine. All players that want to play. The problem is, though, like, if Kyrie doesn't want to get axed, we talked about this last week. That motherfucker might retire. And I really believe he would. I think he would walk away from all this off principle just off of that alone. Hey, I mean, what does that do to the Brooklyn next?

I think he's the only one. How does that work for Brooklyn? Like, what do they get? Do they get, I mean, they get all their money back, right? No, no, no, no. I think they, I think he still gets burnt. I think he still gets fired. If you, if you walk away from the NBA.

If you retire, if you retire, you get what you know, you ain't getting paid for the next three years as saying I retire right now. I mean, they get their cashmase back. Go back. You people want to play with James Hardin and Kevin Durant. You'd be I. Yeah, you'd be high, bro. Also, Kevin and Kevin and Kevin also got COVID. too. Like, you got teammates that, this is affected your locker room, dude. You know?

Everybody that I heard that got COVID does not want to get COVID again. Twice, yes, yes. But that's where we're all right now. Quick tidbits before we get out of here. Darry, Sixers, GM says that confirmed it. Got to trade him. It's over, right? You have to trade him. We've talked about Ben Simmons enough here. What do you say? My bad, I interrupted you. What do he say, though? No, it's fine.

He just said that they asked for, the normal GM shit, acts for a trade. We're focused on the players that are here and focus on building a championship team. Like normal shit that they, you know, what they would do. Oh, and then he acts for a trade to Chicago, which seems like Chicago will be a lot of dudes.

I don't know if it makes them a title contender, but it'll be a good team. Like, it'll be what Chicago's kind of always been, right? That team that just fucking pushes the really tough, hard-nosed team that pushes a team to the bruce. rank, but by and large doesn't win a title. I found it real interesting. Doc Rivers got on Stephen A. Smith show last week to clarify the statement.

Did you see that? You didn't see that? Stephen A had him on. They shot the ship for a minute. And then just, I guess, organically, organically, it was, it kind of came up about the quote that Doc had at the end of the last season about not knowing whether they could win a championship with Ben Simmons. And so he went out of clear.

I just found the timing of having Doc on when Doc is never on really funny. Like, and it was almost, it was almost like the Sixers front office was like, hey, man, we need you to get up there. I always walked that back. We need you to get up there right now. Try to get this shit back in, like, can I tell you another thing? It's funny, like, now that I'm, it's funny now that I'm now where I'm at as a media member. Like, when I first started as a media member, it was like, no one would ever talk to me. Like, never would never talk to me, like, or whatever.

right? And you're thinking like, why would they like, why would they talk to me? They should be silent. They don't need me. They don't do anything. But when you get to this certain level like a Stephen A or like a thing like that, bro, PR reps are like, bro, you need to talk. Like relax. Yo, hey, bro, you need to talk for all of our. And like, Joelle and Bid is walking the shit back. Is it really? It's just like, yeah, like, yo, man, it's, I think it's too far gone, bro.

It's way too far gone, I think. But, like, also get Ben Simmons up in here real quick. And he could be a trade piece down the line because, you know, long game. Maybe trade for Dame, huh, huh? Trade for Dame if that don't work out. Like, there's a lot of things that you can wait out. Like, it's not the worst thing to keep Ben Simmons right now. If he's on board for what it is right now, you could, like, maybe parlay him for Bradley

Beale or parlay him for Dame. You never know. I think it's so funny how to, like, the power balance shifts in an equation like that, right? Like, you know what I mean? Just take time as time goes on. Ben waited them out, like, weighted him out. And now you got a head coach and a super. Superstar at Mike's

lobbying to get your back. I think that's yeah, dog. It's crazy, man. Oh, goodness. The NBA season is here, baby. It's here. We're back, baby.

All right, man. Let me get my real one. I can I get my real one off? Sasha Mac. Oh. I need, I need the drum roll, please. I need my music. We need to get ready.

We need to go. The autumn wind is a motherfucking raider. Oh, we are 3 and O, baby. We're 3 and O baby. Over to Dolphins, baby. 3 and O for the first time, check it. 19 years, baby. The autumn wind is a Raider, Silver and Black, just win, baby.

RIP, Al Davis, we out here. I don't know if I accept that. We're ready. I don't know if I can accept that. I don't know if I can accept that. I don't know if I can accept that. The Oakland, Las Vegas, L.A. Raiders, baby. I don't know if I can accept that unless you also include a name.

You don't get to just say the Raiders. You must say a player. No, no, no, I got it. I need you to do that. All right. We do this on the real ones. Derek Carr, I owe you an apology, you man. Flowers, sir.

Flowers. I owe you flowers, sir. I owe you flowers. You're playing like Rich Gannon and his prime, baby. You're playing like Kenny Stabler, baby. You're willing to deal it. We're ready to go. Play the theme music.

The autumn one is a raider. We are back, and we might go four and 12. But it doesn't matter because we're back. The propaganda machine is back, baby. Let's go. We are here also, also, just want to give a quick shout out. I'm up to the one Dallas Wings, okay? You're not, they had, they played, they had played a phenomenal game against the Chicago Sky last week and the playing game.

Rajah, next year we're going to get a powwow and I'm going to have you watch the playing game for the WMBA because they're having, first two rounds or first round are knockouts. They're one game knockouts, first two rounds. So they played the sky. the Dallas Wings, Satu Sabaoli, Izzy, Rike Agumbo Wale, went toe-to-to-against Candace Parker. Almost won. They were down 21 points, came all the way back. Yo, man, shout out to Dallas.

Shout out to Oak Cliff. Shout out to Irving, Texas. Dallas Wings, teams on the rise, honorable mention. I see you. The WMBA is in a good place. We locked in. Real one of the week, Oakland, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Raiders. And then honorable mention Dallas wings.

Roger Bell, who you got. Fair. So my real one of the week is going to be the New York Yankees and won John Carlo, aka Mike Stan. Sorry, bro, I know you changed your name. When in the weekend, what's that, the Yankees, Red Sox rivalry, down one, maybe two, I believe. One three in a row swept, swept Boston in Boston. And John Carlo was just hitting bombs over to the green monster, man.

Like timely bombs. Like it just ripped their heart out. And they left the series up one in the ALE. So like Yankees had a great weekend. Like I'm looking for. Where do you fall on to the Red Sox Yankees robbery? Are you a New York guy on that? I think I lean in New York because my wife and families from New York.

But I don't really have a rooting interest. that series. As an Oakland A's fan in the official minor league team of the New York Yankees, I push for the Yankees over the Red Sox on that one. I just push out. I just, I think I love New York arrogance. I just do.

We're better than you. And like, I just like when cities do that. I just love when cities do that. But just, like, really believe that they're better than you. I just like, I want to give a second shot out,

if you'd allow me to go football and get in my football bag real quick. I want to give a shout out to Justin Fields, though he played poorly, or at least the end result was really poor. He's a real one for just going out there and understanding. He's a professional quarterback. He knows goddamn well that game plan sucks. He knows Matt Nagy is trying to get him killed.

He knows that going out there, Logan, and he soldiered it up, and he almost got killed. The man was sack nine times. the game plan was the game plan was as bad a game plan not by my like opinion multiple NBA sources

I mean NFL sources this morning I'm watching it was god awful and I gotta give a shout out to Justin Fields real one not because he performed but because you went out there knowing looking at those plays and that game plan that you were about to get decapitated and you did your job so real one

good for you Justin Hey man yo NFL players are sick bro y'all put your bodies through the ringer, huh? But, um, hey man, who you got tonight, Monday night, Cowboys? About them Cowboys, bro. I'm an Eagles fan, though. Sorry to Mom Dukes. I know she's, I'm an Eagles fan.

I mean, my mom's, my mom's an Eagles fan. I know, I know. As I'm saying, I apologize. I apologize to all my family, but I'm going with Dak Prescott and them boys. Yo, I was in L.A. last week for the, for the Chargers Cowboys. I was just, I didn't go to the game, but I was in L.A. Dude, the Cowboys propaganda is going, man. I was in Englewood.

I was driving around Englewood, dog. There was so many, there was so many Cowboys fans, so many Wheatim Boys, so many We're Better Than You, so many, yeah, yeah. And it was just, I just respected. As you see the Raiders propaganda that I have, I respect a good propaganda machine. Only outdone by maybe the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, I think the Raiders have number two. I think, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that was really love this episode. Make sure you guys check out the full ringer Slate. Make sure you check out obviously ruins. Check out the mismatch. Check out group chat. Check out the answer. Make sure you check out everything else on our ringer slate. Check out Black Girl's songbook with who, Roger Bell.

Town legend, Danielle Smith. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. Paleo legend, C, Cloud. C, C, C, Sebastian. Yeah. Ooh. Make sure you check out 60 songs that Defined the 90s with

Rob Revella. Really great. Hey, Roger, really great Outcast episode talking about Rosia Parks. You should go check that out, honestly. It's a really good one.

And we will see you guys next Monday. Hala.