The Ringer NBA Show - First-Quarter Awards | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

This week Michael Pina's filling in for Howard and is joined by Raja Bell to hand out some awards after a quarter of the season. They give their picks for MVP (2:46), Defensive Player of the Year (15:25), Coach of the Year (24:07), Rookie of the Year (31:50), Most Improved Player (36:24), and Sixth Man of the Year (44:40). Hosts: Michael Pina and Raja Bell Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello football fans. Shield Capadia here to tell you that the Ringer NFL show is the best place to be for fun and in-depth analysis of all your favorite teams and players throughout the 2024 season. Join me, Stephen Ruiz and Deonté Lee twice a week for an insightful preview of the weekly slate of games every Friday, followed by the Big Monday Recap Show where we delve into our patented hot takes on all the NFL action. And don't forget about Wednesdays, which will feature me, a special QB segment from Stephen, a breakdown of the biggest storylines around the league from our own Nora Princiatti, plus much more.

You won't want to miss any of it, so make sure you subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and follow at Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok X, and YouTube. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Real Ones. My name is Michael Pina, and I'm a senior staff writer at the ringer.com. This is a true honor for me, filling in for my esteemed colleagues, Howard Beck and Logan Murdoch as the host of today's show.

I am doubly honored to be joined on the other line by someone who has forgotten more about basketball than I have ever learned. A man who led the 2007-2008 NBA playoffs in three-point percentage and crack not one but two, all defensive teams in his 12-year NBA career. The great, Raja Bell, what's up, man? Michael, listen, thank you so much for coming on. It is an honor. I would just say if you're going to intro me like that all the time, bro, this is a standing invitation. Howard and Logan, I mean, I don't get that anymore.

You know what I mean? Like, I appreciate that. I'm blushing a little bit. Thank you. Always. I try to be polite. I try to show my manners. So let's just hop right in, Roger.

We're about 25 games into this NBA season. And earlier this week on the ringer.com, I gave awards out for the first quarter of this season. So it was less of a prediction of who will win everything and more just an assessment of how things have played out so far for MVP, rookie of the year, most improved player, et cetera, all the main categories. And so on today's show, I figured it would be fun to gauge where we're at by going over each award. Pretty much all of them are debatable and competitive, and there are a lot of valid candidates for each one. So without further ado, Why don't we start with the award everyone cares the most about and that is clearly most valuable player?

So, Raja, through the first quarter of this season, who is the NBA's MVP? And why is it obviously Nicola Yokic? I mean, why is it obviously Nicola Yolkidj? Listen, what can, I mean, a guy's average in 30 on 55% shooting 13 boards and 10 assists. He's a he's a three-time, you know, MVP already. I just don't, you know, I think this is less about me explaining why those numbers speak for themselves. Like that's an incredible amount of work and more of an apology. Like I need to go back, maybe four years I need to go back, right?

Where like it was already MVP, Nikola Yokic, but I saw it as like a one-year, type of deal, like having a phenomenal player, but having like an out of body almost like otherworldly year. And I certainly didn't see the sustained brilliance. You know, I converted a couple years ago, like, or, you know, a year thereafter when he was still doing it. But like, like, I still feel like I need to go back, Michael, if I'm being honest, and just apologize. Because what more could you do? Like, literally, what more can he do? He's, that's a great way to put it. What more can he do? What more can he do. You had some of the numbers, the basic numbers. Like, he's third if it's just like, you know, comparing them to everybody else. He's third in scoring. He's first in rebounding. He's second in

assists. Last night against the calves in a loss, he passed Magic Johnson for career triple doubles. Magic Johnson. He's shooting 50% from behind the three point line this year, which is third highest in the league on a career high four point two attempts per game. And, you know, like all the advanced numbers love him and everything. But one of the things that I noticed in last night's games against the Cavs that really stood out to me that was fascinating. You know, the on-off metrics are wild. He's, you know, when he's on the court, they outscore their opponent by a million points. And when he sits, the Denver Nuggets would lose to the Washington generals. But last night when he was on the bench, Michael Malone did something very interesting. He played

Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr., Christian Brown, and Peyton Watson together for the first time this season. So that's the other four starters, plus Peyton Watson, who's probably their other, you could quibble, probably their other best bench player. And it just, it struck me as like Malone grasping for straws. Like there's just nothing. And that, that's, That lineup, by the way, was not very successful. So, like, what do you do when this dude sits? And that, to me, is value. Like, when he's on the court, he makes everybody else better.

He's individually dominant. And the team is great. And when he sits, they stink. And that's just like, that's value to me. For sure. For sure. I mean, that's the best argument for it, right? Like, I could the stats speak for themselves.

But the point of the matter is, if you extract them from that situation, there is no real situation, right? Like once, I mean, I don't want to say literally, it's so cliche, and I say it all the time, but almost every single thing that has to do with them being effective offensively and having an opportunity to be successful starts and ends with him. And that's not to downplay how good of players the rest of them are individually. But that just happens sometimes. Like, you know, for whatever it's worth, like, let's take it back to those sons teams when I played with Steve.

Amari is a brilliant basketball player. Sean Marion's incredible Boris D. out. Like, these are incredible players. Leandro Barbosa, you take Steve out, especially given the style of play we were playing. And it just, it doesn't work the same. And I'd even make an argument that that team would work better without Steve than this one does without Nicola. Right?

Like so that's a great point, Michael. Like we could do all the numbers. We could talk about how incredible like a guy of that size shooting 50 effing percent from the three-point line on four point two attempts per game is like that's bananas in and of itself. But the reality is just look at them when he's not on the court. Like look at the efficiency and how that runs when he is not the conduit. And that's telling you everything you need to know. So I actually had a question. I'm so happy you brought up those sons teams.

and Steve Nash, and you mentioned Boris Diaz as well. When I watch Yokic, to me, he's up there with LeBron as the smartest player I've ever seen. And I was curious if you agree with that when you watch him play and you see him call out defensive, you know, he knows what's going to happen. When he's on defense, he knows what the offense is going to run from sideline out of bound and baseline out of bound plays. I've seen him physically move teammates into different spots on the court where they need to be because he anticipates the action. For you, first of all, do you agree with that assessment when you watch him? And then also, I'm curious, like, who's the smartest player? Who's some of the smartest players that you've played with?

And how does that kind of, I guess, just show itself on a basketball court? Yeah. You know, what's interesting because I do agree with you 100%. Like his ability to kind of play chess out there, like mentally and understand how all the pieces are moving around the board in real time is pretty remarkable. LeBron does it. You know, the interesting part, Boris Diao definitely did it. But the interesting part about them because they're bigger players is like it gets more, I think there's a bigger spotlight on them doing it because you traditionally didn't see bigs in that regard. Most of your all-time great point cards, before they became combo point guards, most of the guys that set the table and lived on facilitating first and then scoring, that's what they did.

Like, that's the game they were playing up top. Like, Magic, Isaiah Thomas, John Stockton, like, Jason Kidded, those guys were playing. They did that. But I think, you know, as we've evolved as a game, you're seeing bigger bodies do it now, people that aren't necessarily playing the true, hey, I'm bringing it up the court every time position. And so, you know, there's kind of like a bigger spotlight on that, which is interesting to me. But Steve Nash is certainly in that mix of players where, you know, you just feel it when you're playing with them. I came into the league.

Avery Johnson was good at that too when I first came in. Avery, the Spurs were the first real training camp where I had a chance to make the team. I had went to training camp with Atlanta. And, you know, they had just traded for J.R. Ryder and Jimmy Jackson. I was a rookie. This was going to be like a kind of a favor for my agent just to get my feet wet and let Atlanta see me in a camp scenario. But I wasn't going to make it. So I wasn't really like probably locked in like I should have been. When I got to San Antonio, I was really, there was a real opportunity and I was really locked in as to like how are we playing like where do I need to be I understood pick and roll better I kind of knew spacing better so you got to feel from like those great

points and I'm using Avery as an example here of how much they understood by what they were telling you to do like non-verbally so like if you're coming down the court and you're in the wrong place and he's like shaking you off like waving you like kind of like yo yo get out of there get out of there. Get out of there. Like, you're like, and as a, as a young player, not knowing what's going on. I'm like, oh, fuck, I've got to get out of here. Where am I going? All right. I'll go to the other side and stand in the corner. And then something springs wide open on that side of the court. And then it's dawning on you as a young player at lunch. Like, God, he like saw four seconds into the future in a way that I did it. Like, he knew what was going to open up if I was not in that spot. And he got me out of there.

So that's how at the time I was becoming aware of like these guys and their minds. as it related to like, if this happens, that's going to happen. It's not like playing quarterback. You know what the defensive structure and the shell looks like. You know what people's responsibilities are. And you know that if you stress that guy and his responsibilities, the dominoes that fall after that, right? So in theory, if I stretch that guy and he's got to make the call to take the flat away,

like, you know, in a cover two, let's say, right? And then I'm going to challenge the safety and bring him a little down to, to the sideline with like a corner, like I can leverage that other safety to the boundary in the middle of that field should open up. Well, they're doing that on a basketball court without, without the huddles and without the play calls in their ear.

Right. So, so like, Steve, you know, all the great PGs did it. I would say from a big perspective, like Shaquille O'Neal was phenomenal at that, who I played with. Like, and I knew that as soon as he got to Phoenix because he would tell me, You know, like, hey, man, I'm going to make your job even easier than it's ever been.

Like, you do this, that, and that. I'm going to find you in the corner. Just give me two seconds and let me let it collapse. And then I'm going to, and you're like, oh, fuck, what? Okay. And then before you know it, you're shooting a three out of the corner. So, I mean, that's a long answer, Michael. I got kind of like in, in my, like, nostalgia bag there.

But I'm trying to think real time of guys I played with that just had it. Boris D. out, I don't know who I saw in their pot. It might have been Jack, might have been Stephen Jackson who spent some time with him in Charlotte and gave him his flowers. And he's a, he's a show, you know, a friend of the show. But I don't think people really understood what Boris was. They got an appreciation for him because he went on to win championships and stuff like that. But cerebrally, Michael, I put him up there with just literally, and it's going to sound crazy.

Anybody. Watching Boris D.O. And you're right. Like, I feel like he was ahead of his time in so many different ways because of the skill set in that body, as you were referring to. Like, the players who were manipulating actions were usually point guards. And they were like six two, six three, whatever. And I think that the league and the sport didn't really know what to do with someone like Boris until he was able to. I mean, he played really well for you guys, obviously. And then in San Antonio, it kind of went to the next level in.

the postseason. Is there anyone else just talking about MVP candidates who you think deserves some shine here? I mean, you, yeah, look, there are guys that deserve shine, but I don't have anybody. I mean, you know, SGA's playing great. Jason Tatum's playing great. Like, their names, Michael, but if I'm if I'm being fair to Nicola and I started off by apologizing, like I, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I can throw some names at you, but like not. not in the same convoy for me.

I'd be curious you. Like, can you make a case? So the one, if I were to play devil's advocate and you're talking to someone who I have a Nicola Yokic poster behind me, like, the only poster my wife would let me hang in our whole home. So, like, I think, like, if I were to play devil's advocate, they're 11 and 8 or 11 and 9 right now. So in an eighth place in the standings.

And I think that people frown upon that. I don't care at all. Like I just, I think that, you know, he missed three games because of the birth of his son. And they lost two of them, I think. And like, I just think in terms of value, I don't, like, I don't care about standings or record really at this stage in the going. Shea's been great. Tatum's been great. Janus has been otherworldly.

just statistically, and he's actually hitting jump shots now, which is kind of scary. But yeah, I think it's, I think it's Yokic for sure. Let's move on to defensive player of the year. My pick for this was Victor Wembenyama, and I think that there are some other qualified candidates for sure. But at the same time, Raj, I don't know how you feel, but I just think this guy is going to win this award, barring injury for a decade. Like, it's scary. He covers up, I mean, it's another one where you want names. Like you could go their names.

Like you go like, like Jared Jackson, Evan Mobley, Dyson Daniels for today and moving forward. Like they're names. But when you have a dude that covers so many boxes defensively, like it just checks so many boxes defensively, when he's healthy, I don't know how you get the word out of his hands. Like I just, I don't know, Michael.

like I like a lot of this episode is going to be me reflecting like to when I played and and you know seeing what people can't quantify right like sorry is you see the stats right you see the blocks you see the board you see all of that what it's hard for like the naked untrained eye to quantify is like the the adjustments that that size and agility would make you as an offensive player make that would affect your field goal percentage, but it doesn't result in a block or a turnover. And the amount of those per game for him would be probably, aside from maybe Wilt,

like the most ever. Because I can't imagine, like, getting somewhere and thinking, hey, you're good, you're good to squeeze here. And we all have this little internal timer as offensive players, and we're able to calibrate distance from a defender, amount of time that I'm going to need to get this shot off, and I either checkmark that and it's green light for me to go,

or I'm like, yeah, this isn't going to end well and let me swing that, right? And we're doing that in a fraction of a second. Well, he changes all math. He just changes all the math because he's so long. And so it would be a nightmare to get anywhere around in his vicinity and think that it was open. And then get midway through a shot. And he's just thrown your,

your rhythm off because he's just, you're not sure whether he's within range or you're not sure whether you're going to be able to convert that pass because that fucker's standing over there. And you can't quantify that. No, it's like, it's remarkable. The attempts to quantify it are like just, you know, there are statistics you can look at.

But to me it's just, it's more impressive watching him play and watching him intimidate, watching him change as you outline wonderfully, just change the process of how an offensive player is going through a possession. And the thing that really stands out to me

that's the scariest part is when he makes a mistake, he's long enough and agile enough to correct it in real time. It cleans it up. Yeah, it's like he's his own safety net. Like he's pressing pause on time, pressing rewind,

and then moving. and is able to impact the play. It's just, it's remarkable. And the fact that, again, he's 20 years old. I don't know what the ceiling is here for someone like that. I mean, is it just going to get stronger? Like, what is the future for him, do you think, as a defender? Yeah, I mean, this was the conversation when he was coming into the league,

when people were trying to project what that looked like. And honestly, yes, he continues to get stronger. He continues to grow in understanding of what's happening. Like he continues to grow in all of these areas. The only real thing, and you don't even want to put that out in the, I won't put it out in the atmosphere, but it's the obvious thing that could derail something like that, right? But I'm not, like, other than that, yeah, he's just going to continue to get better.

And like, let's just go to like what you're taught as an offensive player, like a guard, right? Like, you're taught as you get to the rim with Biggs to take, take it to them, right? Like, as an offensive guard, probably four to five inches shorter than the normal being, maybe six to seven, like, if I get to the rim and try to run away from you and put the ball out, a lot of times that's allowing you to hit your apex as a jumper and, or as a vertical threat. And your long, your long arms are going to gobble up that shot in a way that most of the time

that's not the right recipe for me to try to avoid you. So you're taught to like seek the contact and ground that guy to the floor. Put him in jail, right? So the thought behind it is like, I get downhill. You're waiting to time up a jump to block my shot. I hit you in the chest in a way that doesn't allow you to time up your jump. And it gives me that fraction a second to sneak the ball up before you can leave the floor. Well, he's too fucking long to do that too.

Like it's too long. It doesn't matter. Like his arm is still out there in a way that that split second doesn't matter to him. So that's just from a guard perspective. From a big perspective, I mean, these guys are taught to like, you know, head fake, you know, maybe use the rim. The type of things that would get someone in the air or get them out of position where you could, because you are 611, just quick it in the basket real quick. Like, you know, like I got to finish up and over you. These guys don't.

They just got to get you to leave the floor and then they're right at the rim. It does. He cleans it up. He jumps. On your head fake, hits the ground, and he's still standing up blocking your shot. It's, it's otherworldly as far as what people in this generation have seen in terms of like, like a big. Most of those guys like Sean Bradley, I played with Sean Bradley, right? A human eraser.

And I love Sean. Great dude, man. But like, not mobile at all. So if you could mitigate that by just moving it in some way, shape, or form. And it just, once he was moved, he couldn't get over there. Right? Well, this dude moves like a cat. Right?

I mean, he does. So, like, I mean, I'm not doing it justice. It sounds like I'm just like fawn it over and I am to some degree. But I mean, you know, I didn't get a chance to play against something like that. It would be unnerving, I think, at times. I feel like the NBA should give out a trophy for the runner-up in defensive player of the year for like the next 10 years. For the next decade, right?

Yeah. And like building off that concept, if Victor didn't exist, who would be the best defender through the first quarter of the season? Who has impressed you the most on that side of the ball? I probably go with Jared Jackson, I think. I mean, Evan Mowgli's great. If I'm keeping it a buck, the one I've been most of the ball. impressed with, I don't know that I'd necessarily give him the award is Dyson Daniels.

Like, love Dyson Daniels. Yeah, I'm most impressed with. But I don't know that I could like give you that award yet. Draymond Green's fantastic still. Of course. But yeah, those names. I'd probably go Jaron Jackson for the award, but my favorite is Dyson Daniel. Love watching Dyson Daniels play.

Absolute Hawk. I want to shout out Chris Dunn too with the Clippers, who's recently bumped into the starting lineup there. He's just everywhere doing everything. A lot of great defenders in the league right now, and it's really fun. And that's something that you can speak to much better than I ever will in a million years. You know what's cool, Michael? No, sorry, dude, but like you know what you're talking about, bro.

You don't be your, I appreciate that. But you know what you're talking about, dude. The cool part about when rules change in any sport is the cause and effect for me, right? Like, you change the rules because offense is what. people want to see and viewership and everything. And, you know, we kind of complain because it strips certain things out. But, you know, within, you know, two, three, four, five years, like, you start to, the, the effect becomes you get some incredible defenders that have to defend in a different way. And, and therefore, they don't have all these tools of physicality and

beating you up at their disposal, become even better defenders than you saw in the previous generation. That's such a fascinating point. And it's like guys are having to adapt, right? And play within parameters that do not give them an advantage at all. But also, at the same time, this season we're seeing, this leads me into the next category. We're seeing more physicality, I feel like, allowed in the league. Not in, you know, not in every game I watch. But there are possessions and stretches where I'm like, that would have been a foul two years ago.

Like much sooner And that position would have been whistled dead. And this brings me to a coach of the year. So there's a lot of great coaches. I think this award is really based on preseason expectations above anything. I picked by the slightest of margins, I may udoka for this. I just think that talking about physicality and defense,

Houston's defense, like, I wrote this in my piece, but like raise your hand if you thought they'd have the second best defense in the NBA through 20-something games. And this team just has an identity. They crash the offensive glass. They get back in transition. Those two things used to be impossible, thought to be impossible, to do both at an elite level, and they do.

They protect the paint. They play extremely hard. And they have guys who hold each other accountable as a very young team. So I just think that that's what's impressed me the most about E. But what are your thoughts on who's been the best or most impressive coach so far? Yeah, I love EMA. I'm a huge EMEA fan. And he would certainly be on a very short list.

It's going to be hard for me not to give it to Kenny Atkinson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, and it might be in some regards for the opposite reasons, right? You talked about all the defensive stats and EMA's backbone as pre-ex. reaching that and establishing culture in that way and all of that. And really, if I'm being honest, I probably tugs on my heartstrings a little bit more than the other way. But what he's been able to do with them as an offensive unit,

what are they, 21 and 3 right now, you know, avenge the Boston loss. I mean, that's pretty remarkable, man. And, you know, I'm sure they had a higher ceiling going into the season maybe than Houston, but I still want to give flowers there. It's just been a pretty remarkable. Was it 15 and 0 or 16 and 0? Would they start? I think it was 16, I want to say.

16 and oh, yeah. Like, I mean, that's, you know, haven't been on some really good teams and had some hot starts to seasons. Even that is pretty, you know, remarkable. Yeah, I got to have to give him his flowers. So they're third in offense right now. And I think that that is the craziest part of all of this.

And just like I'm a huge Evan Mobley person. I went to Cleveland a couple years ago, spent about a week there to do a story on him, got to sit down, talk to him, talked to a bunch of his teammates, talked to a bunch of the coaches. And I've been such a believer in, like, such a believer in this person does not need to shoot threes to be a dominant NBA, two-way NBA player. And I think it's really cool and fun to see. Like he's not shooting threes. It's not a thing that's happening. Yet he is so much better than he was last season. And he's way more aggressive.

And he has the ball in his hands more. And they're allowed to play through him at the elbow. And he can grab and go off the defensive glass. And, you know, if you just look at like, I think one of the more telling stats of this team is Donovan Mitchell's touches from last year to this year, biggest drop in the whole NBA. Donovan Mitchell touches per game. So shout out to Kenny Atkinson for getting the franchise player, the best player, the perennial All-Star on your team to accept that to go further, you need Evan Mowbly to develop.

You need Darius Garland to develop. You need the bench to Ty Jerome's having a great year. You know, Karras Leverts having a great year. Isaac Okoro is hitting shots and feeling really comfortable and in rhythm. So Kenny's been tremendous. If he were, I mean, yeah, he'll probably win this award. I feel like he's already kind of locked it up in the eyes of a lot of people, deservedly so. I just wanted to shout out E-May and give it to him because I think that.

Well, you should. He's a fantastic coach. Like, like, a fantastic coach. You know, the interesting part about the Donovan Mitchell, because I didn't know that stat. Like, there's not a huge slipping. in terms of production with that, with that. Right. So like convincing someone to do that is one thing as a coach, right?

Like we all come in. That's the, that's coaching, right? I got to come in and I got to get you to buy in, Michael. That's the first step. But then I got to produce on that. So like getting Michael to buy in, Michael's this established star with an expectation of like production and awards and all of that.

Like I have to be able to give you this vision for like doing less. effectively, like, but reaping the same benefit personally, and then therefore as a team, we're going to be exponentially better. I got to execute that as a coach. And that's the cool part about what you just said, like touches down the way they are. I wouldn't have been able to tell you that, but numbers are sitting right where they normally are and the team has, the team has gotten exponentially better because of it. Like, that's coaching, the buy-in, the execution of vision, like which which furthers buy in and now we've got it rolling and so you know that's pretty cool are you a believer in the cleveland cavaliers is a legitimate championship contender uh yeah yep

yeah we're a quarter of the way through the season um you had you had asked me three weeks ago um before the holiday before i got sick before all the BS um i would have said the jury is still out I wanted to see the Boston matchup. The first one, I wanted to see, you know, what that looked like. But even in the loss the first time, like I was like, okay, yeah, we're for real. So yes, the answer to that is yes. Like, yes. I think I'm, I'm in agreeance with everything you just said.

And I was a little, like, I still want to see, you know, I want to see Alan and Mowgli in a postseason setting against one opponent who can really, hone in affect their spacing take advantage of that i want to watch that in a playoff series but i feel like i'm almost nitpicking at the same time like they've just been so dominant and impressive and they have such great talent such great depth and i think that no disrespect to j bickerstaff who i think is a phenomenal coach uh i just think kenny has taken this to a different stratosphere frankly yeah um on the offensive end um yeah he's he unlocked them and i think you're a approach, I would be lying.

Like I would love the opportunity to do that as well, right? Like I'm not going to sit here and tell you they are my favorite to win it. I would, I too, like you, like there's another, the next test is that in the playoffs. But like if we're going into those playoffs and you're telling me, hey, give me a field of teams that you would feel comfortable, like they're in that field of teams. Yeah, I think I agree. Let's move on to rookie of the year. Not a great rookie class.

Not the worst rookie class in the history of the NBA, maybe. But just not a great one. You know, when don't you start here, Roger? Tell me what rookie has really stood out to you so far through the first quarter of the season. Yeah, I'm typically not super dialed into rookies. If I'm being honest, Michael. It's not what I do. Listener, I'm sorry, I apologize.

But there is one this year that has stood out for me. I think he stood out for a lot of people. And maybe it's because of the Sixers have been having such a tough time anyway. And so this is just a bright spot for them. But Jeremy McCain is bowling. Like, he's effing bawling. Like that's, you know, 16 a game on roughly 46%, 38%, 90. Like, we're hooping, bro.

And we're not, and we're not hooping. We're not hooping on like, hey, catch and shoot, transition. like I get them when you're not looking hooping like we're hooping in my bag hooping and that's been pretty cool to watch so for me it's going to be Jeremy yeah my when I wrote this column my brain said Jared McCain

I'm not going to lie statistically no argument but then when you watch him play I mean three level score super quick hooping so jittery and in some ways

honestly Raja I don't want to be hyperbolic but like he's been better than Tyrese Maxi in some ways this season, which is a wild thing to say and kind of speaks to how terrible the Sixers have been. So my brain said McCain, my soul said Stefan Castle. And this is one of the least efficient shooters in the NBA this season. So I'll get that out of the way. I don't care.

He makes so many winning plays on both ends. He's already a plus defender. He already knows how to punish teams who ignore him on the perimeter. His sacrifice cuts are frequent. They're timely. He opens up opportunities for teammates. He guarded Steph in a win. He guarded Shea in a win.

He guarded Deerrin Fox in a win. He's impressive physically in a way that just doesn't look like a rookie when he's out there. And he's super smart. And he's already picking up things that I'm sure Chris Paul is telling him. day in and day out. And so Castle, despite the numbers not being, you know, as impressive as McCain's, I still think is like long term, my favorite rookie probably in this class. Yeah.

But then just what he's done in terms of impacting winning on a team that's actually been competitive has really stood out to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see that. And it's interesting, like they're both of their pedigrees are, are are you know that that's a blue blood program like they come in and probably from a from a preparation standpoint at the at the collegiate level um more ready if that makes sense like just to to have that impact that you're kind of talking about um and so i can't be i i wouldn't be mad

at you at that i just and and maybe i have been more exposed just quite frankly and full disclosure to to jaret mccain's body of work because it's more viral sometimes you know what i I mean. Like his, his offensive bag is, is just really, really, really advanced for a rookie. Like, it's just really advanced. So I can't, I won't, I'm not going to give you a true argument. I like, I like both of them. But I've just been so impressed with that, with that, with, with, with, with, with, with, I

know how hard it is when you come in to score at the NBA level. But to, but to do it with the ball in your hands a lot of the time and having to create. it, it's a pretty crazy thing to watch at times. No, you're right. He's going to win this award and he's the odds on favorite by like a considerable margin. And like if I don't know what's going on with Joelle Embed, like if he's going to get shut down for the rest of the season tomorrow, it wouldn't, it wouldn't shock me. So he's going to put up numbers.

Jeremy Kaye's going to put up numbers for the rest of this season and is a sole bright spot in Philadelphia, which is a total mess right now. Um, Raja, let's move on to most improved player. You go, you go, you go first. You go first on most improved because I was all over the place on this way. Man, I had so many names. There are so many different arguments. Some of them contradicted the other one.

Like, go ahead. You go first. Yeah, I'll start by saying like, I hate this award. I think it's so stupid. And it's, there's no like, uh, base criteria where we're able to just like, people before the season started were like, oh, Victor, Victor, it's like, no. No, stop it. So I went with Franz Wagner for my pick here.

And basically, like, the way I look at it, he's gone from a pretty good sidekick with potential and a max extension that he just signed that was criticized by a ton of people as being an overpay. So he went from that to like a lock for the All-Star team. and I just feel like that is one of the most important leaps a player can make in their career. So I can get into more about him, but like who, what other names are? First of all, what do you think about Franz this year? Yeah, man, he's a, he's a player, man.

Like, he's one of those guys that, you know, what it's really hard for front offices to tell sometimes is like what your, what your, what that floor is. Everyone thinks they get it right and you don't always get it right, right? then once you get it right is like how sturdy is your frame to build on and i don't mean physically but i mean in terms of of of fundamentals and and and and ability to continue to take those steps into franchise guy right like his his was sturdy as hell the floor was the floor high and then the the frame was was great to build on right and so his what you just see is him continue to build on

the game. Continue to build on the what's the way do I want to describe that responsibility like you know that's what you're doing with younger players is just putting more on their plate in terms of responsibility and seeing can they handle that until we get to like the breaking point and he's like you know I'm good what's next. That's right? Yeah that's a great way to put it because

Palo went down and it looked like I mean their season could have been like over No joke. And instead they're in third right now, I think, in the Eastern Conference. They're very good. And, you know, his responsibility, his, first of all, his responsibilities offensively have increased by like more than basically any player, high-volume player, high-frequency player in the entire NBA. And the way he's dealt with getting blitzed in the pick and roll, the way he's dealt with getting double-teamed in isolation, the way he's dealt with getting double-teamed in isolation, the way he's dealt with. with seeing layers of defense every time he has the ball in his hands.

Like, he's done it all excellent. Like, he's handled it all so well. So I echo what you said for sure. That's a great point. Anybody else that did? Yeah, I did. So Franz was my guy, but like I went 1A and I went 1B and I went back and forth on 1A and 1B.

And this one's maybe more near and dear to my heart because, because of, you know, like, didn't really come in with, with the expectations, fought, scrapped, got some minutes, wasn't getting minutes. Last year was basically a wash for him. But, yeah, I got to give a shout out to Ty Jerome. Love it. Yeah, I got to give a shout out to Ty Jerome for just continuing. Like, I was actually, the weird thing is for whatever reason, and I don't love Virginia

basketball as a viewing, like, public. but you know I liked watching him at at Virginia and I would always say to myself like super smart player yeah like he's just like that that kid's got a brain you could tell that there were some physical limitations I had no idea what that was going to translate into in the league but like as a hooper like he's out there he's one of the guys we were talking about earlier in the show we're like you because physically he doesn't exist without playing ahead of you and so you know, to be able to continue to stick with that and bounce around and then find a home and being really being a real big part like of something special right now. Like I got to give him a shout out.

Awesome for you to bring him up. One of the most efficient players in the entire NBA this season. I had him as an honorable mention for six men of the year, frankly. Could be. Like he's been terrific and he's a part of winning. He's a part of a winning team and he contributes to that. Before we move on from Most Improve, I just want to shout out. RJ Barrett who has been,

tell me what you've thought of watching RJ Barrett this season, because he's doing things I never thought was possible for him because I feel like he was so kind of boxed into a role with the Knicks. Keep going. Like the way he's bloomed with the ball in his hands, playmaking for teammates, making the type of passes where I'm like, that was RJ Barrett who made that pass.

that's just really cool to see and I think he's third in the whole league right now in baskets in the restricted area which is just like I don't even know what to make of that that's shout out to him that's incredible what have you thought watching RJ this year I think you put it really well man

like I think he's been fantastic I think what I take away from that the most is the pot that you're put in as a plant either supporting or restricting your ability to grow into what you're supposed to be. And we don't all get that opportunity. This is a league where because of the numbers and because of the money spent

and the expectation on a team, not everyone's afforded the true opportunity to see exactly what they could be. And that's just life. No one's complaining about that. Like we weren't a lot of money. This is professional basketball. But I don't think that what he was being asked to do

or tasked to do at times was really allowing him to grow in the way that he's being allowed to grow in Toronto. Some of that has to do with aesthetically, like when you look, when you looked at him early, he was kind of like stiff a little bit. Like he's a stiffer.

Like games sometimes, even at the pro level, you wouldn't think it's a thing, but aesthetics mean stuff to people. Like, can you, can you do this? That how does it look when he does it? I'm not that guy. I'm like, yo, can he, does he get it done?

I don't give a shit what it looks like. Does he get it done? And then I'm going to base it off of that. And I think he's always been a guy at every stop who's kind of got it done. And then he came into the league and I think aesthetics got him a little bit. And I just think you're seeing him with more, you know, not unlike Franz to some degree, different levels for sure. But like with more expected of you, with more put on your plate, with more opportunity. Like he's meeting the challenge and growing in that way.

It's been pretty cool. And I've been a fan of his too. He's like Steve's God's son, and I've known him, and I know his dad, and I've watched him. And so, like, I'm super excited for that's really cool. I haven't heard anyone use the word stiff to describe him aesthetically. And I think that that is the most perfect description of his time in New York, where he would average 20, he averaged like 21 a season, from one season, I think, which is not nothing. And when you would watch him play, you'd be like, this dude is not moving. Like, what is he great at?

What is he, like, he's not, he doesn't move in a way that's, like, very exciting with the ball in his hands. So that's, that's, like, a perfect, perfect way to describe kind of what was, I guess, like, just, like, gnawing at me when I would watch him over the years. And he didn't really impress me all that much. Sure. But he's been great in Toronto. Great. Yeah. We've come to the last, but not least, award.

Raja, it is sixth man of the year. This is a very interesting category this season. A lot of fantastic candidates, I guess. I went with Peyton Pritchard in the Boston Celtics, who if you were to tell me, like, you know, Raj, I don't know if you know this so. I mean, I grew up in Boston. I am a Celtics fan.

apologies and if you were to tell me two, three years ago that Peyton Pritchard would have more threes than at this point in an NBA season, more threes than Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving, Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Trey Young, insane. Like that's an actual thing. He's made 23 more threes than every other bench player in the league. He's scored 69 more points than every other bench player in the league. He's played 45 more minutes than every other bench player in the league. And he's doing it on one of the deepest teams, a defending champion.

So it's like you can't really criticize the more minutes thing is actually like a plus for me for him. So this was kind of easy for me to pick Peyton Pritchard. And that's just like wild. I don't even know what to make of it. But he's having a phenomenal season. What are your thoughts? Yeah. Well, I didn't know all that about you.

I won't hold it against you. I actually love Boston, man. I went to school in Boston for two years. It's one of my, it's one of my favorite talents. Real talk. Like, I love Boston. I got great memories there, too. So all jokes aside.

It was an easy one, Michael, it was an easy one, right? It is Peyton Pritchard. Like, we can go, you know, Buddy Hills playing phenomenal. You mentioned Ty Jerome. Like, there are some things there. But like, Peyton Pritchard, for all the reasons, I did not know the stat about how many of the players of that ilk that he's made more threes then, that is.

remarkable. I just know that when you're on a loaded team like that, that is a favorite to win another championship, and you are producing at that level, and you've clearly, the most interesting part to me is to watch the games and see the trust, right? It's a hard thing to articulate when I see someone trust a player that has come up from one role and he's matriculated to another role and then he's matriculated to another role. There's no way for me to put it into words, the trust that I see Jalen Brown and Drew and Jason Tatum having in him. But that's the most impressive part.

Like you talked about all of the stats and stuff and all that's fantastic. It's the trust that you see those dudes and the coach have in him for me, right? Like that speaks volumes to what he's in there doing on a daily basis, what they see him do, what they believe he can do. And I don't think it's even close in terms of who the award should go to at this point. I flirted with Amman Thompson and Tari Isson and Houston. Yeah. It's hard to separate those two as, you know, if they were combined one human being, I could make an argument there.

That they've been absolutely tremendous, though. Ty Jerome, as you said, Buddy healed, as you said. Jake Laravia, I just want to shout out real quick from the Memphis Grizzlies. Just a super season from him. Real winning player. Add so much when he's on the court, takes off basically nothing. He's hitting shots. A really nice connective tissue for the Memphis Grizzlies.

In my opinion, the deepest team in the NBA right now. But yeah, I think that that pretty much does it. Is there anything else you want to say about the great sixth men in the NBA? Or anything else you want to say about our whole discussion? Roger? No, no. I mean, I will say something about six men because I had this conversation with somebody the other day. And I was saying, I think it had to do with a high school kid and he was, he was a starter. And I was saying that they should make him a six man. And people were, people were like, this small circle of people thought I was, I was kind of degrading the kid or like saying,

and I was like, no, you don't, you missed the point. Like, not necessarily on the Celtics, because they're so loaded. But like on a lot of teams, the six man is better than the fifth starter. The fifth starter just happens to be a better fit with all the other great players because he's not good enough to like take the ball and do the things. Like I was the beneficiary of that at times. So like I really didn't mean to be mean when I was suggesting that this kid should be the six man. But it provides just it provides the team with something needed coming off the bench. and it provides, in a lot of instances, that player more opportunity to do what he's good at when some of those starters go off the floor, you know?

So like, Six Man's always interesting because everybody's like, oh, you don't start. And I've argued forever, like, I mean, the Six Men on a lot of the teams I was on was a better player than me. Like, what do you? It just works out like that, right? You know? Yeah. Roger, I think that is, that's going to do it for our show today. This was a blast.

Thank you so much, Roger, for your. insight and your wisdom. Thank you to our producer, Isaiah Blakely, for being a proud Celtics fan. Thank you to everyone out there for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday. See you then.