The Ringer NBA Show - First-Week Impressions and Overreactions With Kevin O'Connor (Ep. 149)

Episode Date: October 24, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor discuss the Suns firing Earl Watson (2:00), Eric Bledsoe's trade value (8:00), D-Wade's move to the bench (18:00), Giannis Antetokounmpo's MVP-level start (24:00), LaMarcus Aldridge's improved play (32:00), the Warriors' early struggles (37:00), Denver's bench talent (45:00), De'Aaron Fox's 'Dragon Ball Z' infatuation (57:00), the undefeated Grizzlies (1:05:00), and Ben Simmons's hot start (1:08:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor, Cynette, Kevin O'Brien. Burdow, what up, Chris, you must be feeling so good right now. I couldn't feel better. I feel better than Earl Watson. We didn't even make it a week on the Ringer NBA show until somebody got fired. Very strange, right?

We talked last week. In fact, when we were given our production, predictions. One of the things we talked about was first coach to get fired. Never in my wildest dreams did I think by the next time we did a show, we would be able to talk about first coach fired. When you saw that, I'll get your opinion first. When you saw that come across social media, when Adrian Orginowski, I believe, broke that story. What did you think? I kind of in many ways, Chris, appreciated the fact that they pulled the plug really quickly. I mean, I like Earl Watson. I think he can be a really good NBA head coach. I think he has the right idea of how to build chemistry. I mean, when I wrote a story on them last year, I liked him as a guy. And I think a lot of the players do too.

But at the same time, being a coach is more than just managing personalities. It's also X's and O's. It's also decisions with lineups. It's also stuff at practices and how you really run your team. And I think that's where Earl Watson needs more time, needs more experience. And then so for Phoenix, I think it's a good thing that these young guys on that team that are talented. They have a lot of young talent are hopefully going to get the coaching that they need moving forward. So I'm happy for the team that they did that, even though I'm disappointed for Earl Watson.

And I hope in the future he does get another opportunity. You're right about him being a good guy. I covered Earl years ago for a couple different seasons. And I've always liked him personally. That being said, he should have been fired after opening night. I almost think they waited too long. I mean, that was the most abhorrent thing I have seen in a long time. I mean, you are playing Portland on your home court.

If your guys are ever going to have a grand slam effort, it's your home opener. Even rat teams have good openers. And Portland is out without McCollum, and you lose by – No McCollum, yep. And you lose by 50? I mean, come on. There is something tragically wrong. There's just no way.

I've never, I can't remember seeing something like that. A home opener being lost by 50 points. And I know they said through three games, the team had lost by a wider margin than anybody has in history. So it was, I mean, I think we thought it was rather historic for a coach to be fired in three games. but the circumstances were also historic. What do you think they do? I mean, there's, you know, there's what, 79, 80 games left when they did it, left in the season? Do you ride out interim for this whole year?

Do you think that job is desirable? I mean, in the end, all jobs are desirable because there's only 30 of them. But I kind of think wouldn't you want to go ahead and get with who, since there is so much time left in the season. wouldn't you want to go ahead and get whoever your, you know, ideal coach of the future is going to be now and let it happen in season? You know, like that's going to be interesting to me, Chris, because I think for them, if your ideal target is from a different organization or he's not in the NBA right now, I think it might be hard to hire that guy midseason. I mean, that's kind of unusual. So maybe you do write out Triano, but at the same time, I mean, you bring up a good point where like it is early in the season. right now. So maybe you are in a position where whoever the guy is that you want, maybe you do

reach out to him. But I think, I think ideally maybe you do wait until the off season anyway, or you find out that Triano is the guy for this squad, right? I just think, you know, their defense is so bad, man. Like their team is so young that you just need to make sure that you take your time and find the ideal guy for this team, even if you do have to wait until next summer. I think that would be a big mistake. I do. Yeah, once upon a time I covered a team and the coach was Sydney Lowe, right? Sydney Lowe was the head coach of the team.

And it just, the season started off pitifully. And you may remember this, but they fired Sidney Lowe and Jerry West was running the team. And they brought in Hubey Brown. and they didn't win a ton of games that year, but it laid the foundation for the next year where they made this massive jump and won 50 games and he won coach of the year and all this kind of stuff, right? So you didn't win a lot.

So I think it, but I do think if that wouldn't have happened and you just start off the next season, then the second season doesn't happen. I almost feel like it's better for somebody to go in there and kind of establish whatever. right, their culture, their way of playing, and everything else, especially with a young team, that that would, that'd be super helpful for them. Because if you go through this whole season, they lose 60 games or whatever,

and then you turn around and you got somebody new. He's got to start from, he's got to start from scratch next year with what they're wanting to do and how he wants to use these guys. Because, you know, every coach has got their different ideas of the way they want to play or the way they want to use guys. So I don't know, man. I'd go ahead and do it. I'd go ahead and do it.

I'd like to see Triano get time. Put it that way. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like a lot of people in the NBA don't have that high of opinion for the owner there. So, yeah, he may,

he may look at it and say, don't hire a coach, ride with this guy, because he may, you know, sit back and watch this season and then get rid of the GM anyway. And then allow the GM to bring in whoever he wants, right?

He may clear that whole thing out. it's totally possible, right? Very, very possible. That could be the next step if this team is just still just an eyesore in the defensive end of the floor. I mean, some of the plays from them, those first three games, just an utter embarrassment, just lack of communication, just not rotating, not playing with effort. It is sad to watch, really. I'll tell you this, and I know, I don't want to, the last thing on earth I want to do is sound like some kind of, old fogy it's not it shouldn't be that way whatever but i did think there it's like i don't know man

i i i feel like there is a message sent when you go and you're and you're and you're trying to get devon booker this amount of points last year in a loss no less and then like they all like sit around celebrating it and they're all taking pictures of this historic night and whatever i it to me it's like indicative of like what you value right like i just i think that's a terrible message to send um but you know on the other hand that's the only fun thing that happened for him last year i suppose but i just i don't know like to me you're you're really like i i don't think in fact i know that many of the great coaches that name the great coach you can think of would be mortified by that happening, looking on Instagram and seeing their players celebrating some kind of personal

achievement rather than, even though they lost, they're all smiling and celebrating after a loss, right? I don't know. I just think, I think it's set a bad precedent. And I don't know, that it's okay to care about your box score. That's what I'd say. That's fair. You know?

And I thought, and I'm not saying that's the reason he got fired, but I'm also saying I've been in locker rooms like that where the first thing, guys. won is to see the box score and they ain't looking at any other number except their particular line and you got to figure that out you got to figure out a way to get those guys to play together and and somebody sacrifice for the greater good they had a catastrophe also with the bledso thing um eric bletso evidently told rye mcdona that he was at the hair salon and that's where he didn't want to be anymore which might be have been of all the things when that tweet happened, I believe it was Sunday.

And Eric Blitz-O said, I don't want to be here anymore. There were, I mean, I don't know. We could have come and done the show, and I could have given you what will his, either he's going to own up to it, and this is the new day and age where guys just own up to it like Durant did, or he's going to come up with an excuse. And I think you and I could have come up with, I don't know, three. 400 excuses before we got to, I was at the hair salon. I mean, what?

That one's going to be near the bottom of the list. I don't know what's worse, though. That are hot yoga, DeMarcus Cousins from a couple years ago. I mean, like, if you say, like, we got to fill in the blank, right? What was Eric Bledsoe talking about, right? When he said, I don't want to be here. Most people would believe he's talking about Phoenix. But amongst the list of things I would not have supposed,

getting your hair done ranks pretty high. It feels like, I mean, what is his trade value right now? Because didn't he, he really screwed that up, didn't he? If he was a malcontent and he would have gone to them and what he said, listen, get me out of here, right? Behind closed doors. Then maybe they go shop him around. and they can get pretty good value.

Do you think there's any chance they get decent value for Bledsoe at this point? You know, I was talking with some people on Reddit yesterday about this, and it was kind of a conversation about his value. And I'm just surprised to see the amount of people that are recommending, like, Bucks give up Malcolm Brogden, or there's some people saying the Cavalier should give up the Nets pick. I just, I don't see it. I don't see how Phoenix has any leverage at all considering the situation. and even if they did have leverage,

I don't see how Brogden would necessarily be worth it, considering the season that he had. I don't see how the Nets pick would be worth it even close for Bletso. I mean, look, Bletsow is a really good player. Don't get me wrong, but at the same time, he's a guy that's had a lot of injuries over the years, and he's in a situation where he clearly wants out and he's been banished by the team, essentially.

So I don't think Phoenix has the leverage to get back a whole lot here. I think they can get a solid player maybe and maybe a pick. are a protected pick, but I don't think you're going to get anything significant if you're the Phoenix Suns. I would like, Chris. I think, uh, I think you're right on the return. I think you're going to get bad return because what's the, they have no choices. Phoenix has no choices. You're not repairing that.

You've already said he's away from the team. And there's a lot of, not, not who needs a point guard too? Like, there's not a lot of teams either. Well, it's interesting because you would think theoretically he would be your, he is an ideal. backup slash third guard. And I actually believe in that role, he is absolutely a championship piece. You know, he is,

I'd like to see him reinvigorated playing for somebody where the stakes actually matter because it has been so long since we have seen that. When he first came into the league, those first, you know, four years, and he was playing for the clippers, he was a guy that people struggled when he was locked in.

You couldn't, you could hardly get the ball past half cord on him. On those Vinnie Del Negro clipper teams, he was an absolute menace, especially in the playoffs. He was just awesome as that kind of a guy. Now, obviously it's evolved over the years. And he's, you know, he's a really good player, but I feel like he hasn't given a shit

in so long. I mean, I watched him last year, and, like, you'd see opposing point guards dropping 30-something points on this guy. And that would have never happened years ago. And I don't think it is just he doesn't have it anymore. He just didn't care anymore on that end. But once upon a time when that kid was locked in, he would, I mean, because he is so big and he is so strong for his position that he could lock guys down.

It's just been a long time since we've seen that. I thought for sure, after his first four years, that he would be a staple on the all-defensive team. And it just never happened. So, I don't know. I don't think I'd want him to be my starting point guard. But man, if he could be my third guard, holy mackerel. And see, he gets paid kind of the amount that that would be okay right now to be your third guard. I think he could be pretty devastating in that role.

You know, it's almost like a, it's Marcus Smartish, right? He's kind of, he's kind of Marcus Smartish. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, like with better offense. And, you know, if you can get that coming off your bench, he could maybe potentially be a steal for you. And hopefully the team that does trade for him, hopefully for that team, he stays healthy.

Yeah. That's the key thing. Because if he can, if he can get back to his former defensive level while still being closer to the evolved offensive player he is today, then you're getting a really, really good player for probably a quite a lower return than you might expect to considering the situation. My only worry is, and maybe just the losing, just totally beat the guy down. It's totally possible. But like he was a dog.

He was a real bulldog. And that's just not there anymore. When you watch him play, you don't go, man, that guy is a bulldog. Like, I just haven't seen it in so long. I know he's got it. I know he's got it in him, and maybe it's just, you know, the, you know, I mean, you just get frustrated. You get, you give up, I don't know, for lack of a better term. You just stop caring like you used to.

But anyway, so that is a little bit of a worry, but that's about it. Those were, those were probably the two biggest stories over the course of the last week, unbelievably, that both featured. the Phoenix Suns with Eric Bloodsoe going somewhere and also getting a new coach. Do you think many people were very high on the general manager there? You know, the first step is you can blow out the coach and that was done rather early. What are the chances you think the GM survives there? And should he? He's clearly missed on some guys, right?

The Alex Lynn thing is rough for sure. You know, who knows on Chris and Bender. Who knows? Hit on Booker for sure. But, you know, it's uneven in terms of the moves. Kind of got everybody's hopes up in 16 and 17. Remember, they were pushing out there. They're going to make a run at LeBron.

They're going to make a run at Carmelo. They're going to make a run at this guy. They're stacking the deck to be able to get Aldridge. And it just really hasn't played out, clearly, free agency-wise. And the draft's been uneven. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, I'd say that the odds are probably low, that he makes it through it.

I think McDonough is a good general manager. I think he's done a solid job of drafting and accumulating talent. I just think that sometimes the mix isn't right. But I hope he gets time, personally. I hope that front office gets time. And I hope they're able to find the right head coach. Because look, man, like a lot of the young players that they drafted, Bender, Chris, you knew, you knew when you drafted them. those guys are going to take time.

Even someone like Josh Jackson this year, he's someone who his offense is going to take time to develop. Devin Booker is somebody who developed probably ahead of schedule. Jackson so far early in the season, his offense looks a little bit ahead of schedule. Marquis Chris last night in their win against the Kings, he had one of his more impressive performances that I've seen from him, despite falling out, and that's still an issue, but that's beside the point. They have young talent on that team that McDonough has drafted and their front office has brought

in. So I hope he gets time, but at the same time with Robert Sarver at owner, I mean, he's probably going to have a quick trigger finger. Okay. Other things, quick notes on Dwayne Wade asking to go to the bench. He obviously got heaped with immense amount of praise people talking about. That's what a great teammate does. This is a guy that's willing to sacrifice and yada, yada, yada, right? Gave Dwayne Wade a great opportunity to retweet some people that were praising him.

We are early into the season, and Dwayne Wade said, hey, you know what, I'll go to the bench. What do you think? About time. I don't know why you started in the first place. I mean, I get it because, oh, yeah, you know, you're bringing in Dwayne Wade. You know, he's a veteran. You got to start him. LeBron wants this, Wade wants this, et cetera, blah, blah, blah.

But at the same time, from a practical perspective, that lineup did not make any sense. Derek Rose and Dwayne Wade don't space the floor for LeBron James. That's really the issue in your back court, whereas for three plus years. now, J.R. Smith has effectively been a three-and-the-style player alongside LeBron James, and it's worked out perfectly. And then you put J.R. Smith on the bench, and he struggles getting into a rhythm off the bench, and Wade, who has declined for four straight years, continued to struggle with Cleveland without getting as many touches, without getting as much opportunity. And not only that, just the fact that he's getting old, it just doesn't make sense. So put it back the way it was,

J.R. Smith can space the floor for LeBron. And who knows, maybe Dwayne Wade will have a heck of a lot more success going against bench units coming into the game later in the first quarter. It could be good for Dwayne Wade and that could be good for the Cavaliers as well. Of 10 possible lineup decisions that are made on the Cavs, how many do you think Tyron Liu is responsible for? Doesn't it feel like they always like just call their own shots? like everything. Like I don't, it's not like Tyron Lou is moving

Twain Wade to the bench. It's like, Dwayne Wade says he's moving to the bench. Like, and the end of story. I've never seen a theme like this. It's unbelievable. Can you imagine?

Could you imagine if you had like, I don't know. Let's just say like you saw a story and it was like, Lamarcus Aldrich says he's going to the bench. He's going to come off the bench. People will be like, what? Like, actually, like, you don't get to, you don't get to do that, right?

You got to have, you got to have Greg Popovich's call. Whereas everything that happens with Cleveland, it feels like it's just accepted that either LeBron says what's going to happen or now Dwayne Wade says what's going to happen. I would say maybe a quarter of the decisions. It's Tyron Lou. It's coach LeBron. It's GM, LeBron. It's owner of LeBron.

It's commissioner of LeBron. LeBron can go anywhere he wants to go. He can play anywhere he wants to play, and he can virtually play with anybody he wants to. LeBron's got control. You would say 2.5 out of every 10 then, right? You say 25%. Yeah, 25%. All right.

We got to take a quick break. When we come back, we are going to give five impressions or first impressions slash possible overreactions that Kevin and I have from the first week of the NBA season and the games that have been played. We'll get to that after these words. Today's Ringer NBA show brought to you by ZipRecruiter. If you're in need of great talent for your business but short on time, you don't have to get lost in a huge stack of resumes to find the perfect hire.

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that the Milwaukee Bucks belong with the other four top Eastern teams. I think there was a general consensus, and at least you and I talked about this, that maybe that there were four that we were certain of, and then there was a division between them and then like the rest. But I don't think there is a division between them and the rest. I think there is a division between them plus the Bucks and then the rest. And that is, of course, Cleveland, Boston, Toronto, and the Wizards.

I think most people thought if you were just throwing out the top four seeds in the Eastern Conference, that that was a pretty good bet that it would be those four and they would be in some order. But my first impression is that the bucks, and especially Janus, who is just otherworldly right now, that the bucks are going to be they're going to be in that mix that it is not some kind of foregone conclusion who the top four seeds in the Eastern Conference are going to be you agree

I'm with you Chris Janice is the one week MVP that's for damn sure unbelievable he is just he is outrageous I mean does he need a three pointer to be a stud like I mean no he doesn't because we're seeing it right now but imagine imagine Janus

in five years I mean, come on. What we're seeing now is outrageous, Chris. It's crazy. You know what? I want to give a shout out to David Thorpe, who is a friend of mine, who a longtime ESPN employee no longer is there. But Coach Thorpe, I remember this.

I'm going to give him credit for this. This is like the rookie year. And it was like during preseason. And you might be able to find this somewhere on Twitter. I should go back and search. But I remember this like it was yesterday because I called him after it. And I'm like, what in the hell are you talking about? He started, he went on this thing about watching Janus.

And he compared him to Durant. And I was like, what are you talking about? Right? Like, what? I don't like, I get like the kids got tools and maybe if he puts it together and and this kind of stuff. But like, even if he puts it together, like, really? I mean, Kevin Durant is like maybe the second best player in the world.

And anyways, like, I don't know, man. I remember that like it's yesterday. He called his shot on that kid. And, I mean, he could easily, Kevin, right now, you could see him. Here's our overreaction. You could see him by season's end for certain. bust through that top five players in the league list that we get to the, oh yeah,

you're right? When you get to the end of the season, how many guys do you want over him? And I'm not talking about for the future. I'm talking about now. Like how many guys are you certain you'd want more than him? It's like the list is shrinking. Like after like every game it feels like, you know?

You know what? Like so like let's just pulled up one list. just the first one that popped up on Google, you know, the Washington Post top 100. They have LeBron 1, Durant 2, Kauai 3, Curry 4, Westbrook 5, Hardin 6, and then they had Janice 7th already ahead of Davis, Butler, Towns, Green, Paul, Wall, Thompson, etc. Right? So you would need Janus to really leapfrog ahead of Curry, Westbrook, Hardin, Leonard. That's a lot to ask, but at the same time, like let's just say these four games are a

are a projectable sample of what we're going to see over the next 78 games. If Janus averages 31 points per game, 10 rebounds, four assists or something like that, and he continues doing well on defense as well. Maybe the argument can be made you take him over Hardin. Maybe you even take him over Westbrook. I mean, he could slip into that top five. I could see that happening. It's probably too soon, but there's a chance at that.

least, and the fact that we're even talking about it, I think, says a lot about a 22-year-old player. Well, listen, with all this stuff, we said at the beginning we're overreacting. We're at least being transparent about this, right? Yeah, for sure. Hey, so I... At the same time, like, in some ways, is it overreacting, though? I mean, here's Janus, a guy who has gotten significantly better every single season.

This is his fifth year. He's gotten better every year, probably by a... significant amount. I mean, the leap from 2015 to 2016 is pretty huge. So what if we're seeing another one from him? And we could be. I mean, I don't even know if it's an overreaction to even say that. I mean, he's a top 10 guy already. And what we've seen so far is just another level from him. It's just remarkable to see it. And it's not like he's doing it against Joe Schmo's either. I mean, he did it against the Celtics that, whoever could defense, Cavaliers, he did it against them. Granted, their defense is horrific.

Blazers have talent on their team. And the Hornets do too. It's not like he did this against the Sons or the Lakers. I mean, he is doing it against quality opponents. And in big moments too. There's an article. There are articles from the beginning of August where Janus had said he might be the MVP. And you've already gotten this whole MVP campaign beginning, right? And in fact, you know, it was on.

on our website, Haley O'Shaughness, he wrote an article about the Yannis MVP campaign has begun. And there were the quotes from like Brad Stevens in there where he said, Brad Stevens, after the loss of the buck said, quote, when you watch Yonis tonight, you thought that's an MVP candidate right there. I mean, so it had, listen, Brad Stevens overreacting too then, huh? It's the truth. It's the truth. I would go as far as I don't think it's an overreaction.

I think what we're seeing is pretty real. Okay, one other thing I want to ask you about the bucks. I threw them in there with the Raptors and the Celtics and the Cavs and the Wizards. Do you believe that that is so? After a week, do you still think the Celtics and the Raptors? How about this? Let me rephrase this different. So if I throw the bucks in there and I say there's five in a separation, do you agree?

that those are the five, is there anybody else that you could see getting in that five? Maybe Miami, right? If we're talking about the top five seats. Not really. Not really, Chris. I don't. And to your point about the Bucks, the only reason the Cavaliers are widely considered the number one team in the east is LeBron.

And Milwaukee has kind of their own LeBron and Janus. So it's like, I think with them, yes, they absolutely, if this is real from Janus, they absolutely belong in that top four conversation. They could even push for more because any time you have a transcendent elite level night in and night out player like Janus, maybe, maybe, again, we're overreacting a little bit here. You've got to be in the conversation. And Milwaukee certainly might have that player with Janice Antenacupo. All right.

Next one. What you got? I got the spurs are still the spurs. And this probably is kind of a mild overreaction. but I'm just amazed by them early this season. No Kauai Leonard, no Tony Parker, and yet, Chris, they're 3-0. They beat the wolves.

They handled the Bulls. Then they beat the Raptors last night, which was a really fun game to watch. Lamarcus Aldridge looks like them with Lamarcus Aldridge of old. And ever since Shea Serrano became pro Lamarcus, Lamarcus has been good. It's like all he wanted was Shay's blessing,

and it's beautiful to watch. But at all seriousness, he looks great. He's averaging 24 and 9. Then you get Dejante Murray. second year point guard who fell a 29th in the 2016 draft. He is somebody who I wasn't that high on him because he was so raw on the offensive end and because he played with so little effort on the defensive end. But with the Spurs, I mean, could he have gone into a better situation already in his

second year he has been excellent on defense? He's rebounding the hell out of the ball. And anybody who's watched him like last night defend Kyle Lowry, he had some real moments against Lowry. DeJante Murray did. So it's like for San Antonio, they again are just plugging guys into situations when their top players are out. Again, no Kawhi Leonard so far the season.

And they still, and they still are really excelling in the defensive end of the floor. They are still tight. And they're doing enough offensively from now until they get Kawhi and a guy like Tony Parker back. It's just remarkable to watch. It's crazy. when you pull up the Spurs team leaders. Rebounding. Dejante Murray, 9.7 rebounds.

Assist, DeJante Murray, 4.7 assist. Wow. Hey, I'm not done. Field goal percentage. Dejante Murray, 57%. Wow. Steels DeJante Murray, four. Keep going, keep going, Chris.

I mean, that is unbelievable. Oh man, that's insane. He looks great, man. Dejante Murray. Look, I mean, there's, I talked to one NBA executive recently last season at some point. And he said to me, he's like, I think it's the teams that are often at fault for why a player fails. Not necessarily the player. So for someone like DeJante Murray, if he went to a different team, maybe we wouldn't

even be talking about him because he would be in a situation where he's another struggling rookie. He hasn't really found his way. But then he goes to the Spurs, and his defense has done it at about face. Like at Washington, all you saw was potential. I mean, long arms, he can move. He's quick. He's agile. But he played with piss poor effort.

And like he took horrible angles on closeouts, didn't rotate. Like little things like that. And now with the Spurs, he's really like already a really, really good defender. Maybe a great defender. Only in his second year. It's just unbelievable how opportunity and situation can have such a heavy impact on a player. And we're seeing it with DeJante Murray. I actually thought about that exact thing the other night because there's been this long debate on what happens with Kauai Leonard if he goes, if he gets drafted by somebody else.

Let's say he gets drafted by a terrible team, right? What happens with him? Because you know that there's been a lot of credit towards that shot doctor. He got a lot of the circumstances surrounding him, which the San Antonio News Express years ago wrote a great article. It was like kind of, you could probably find it. It's like the building of Kawhi Leonard or something like that. But they had gotten him in the lockout year. They had drafted him then or traded, rather, George Hill.

And that he worked with this shot guy and he did all this stuff. And so by the time that they had gotten to him or that he was ready to play for that team, he had already done this immense. amount of work and obviously a lot of credit goes to the organization but long story short i actually thought about that the other night with wiggins who is a unbelievable talent who has gotten really beat up over the defense and whatever else but i wonder to myself like imagine if that kid went to a team that was really good right imagine if he goes to a team that's really good and he's got to you know, maybe he doesn't get a ton of minutes. Maybe he's not playing all the time.

And he's able to just kind of not have a huge load on him immediately. And you wonder how much that affects you not only for the first couple of years, but maybe even possibly the rest of your career, right? When you're just thrown into the deep end immediately, what kind of effect can that have on you long term? And I guess my opinion would be like if Wiggins would have gotten drafted. I guess you could say this about every player because we've got so much, you know, we've got so much respect for the Spurs.

But let's say Wiggins goes to like a really good team and is able to just kind of mature at his rate. I think he, I think he's like maybe even a way better player than he is now, you know? I think sometimes we do a disservice. It's really everything, Chris. Yeah, no. Situation is everything. And sometimes we, I will. Well, that's why these Celtics guys are in a good spot.

They are. I mean, they're kind of getting thrown into the deep end more than they would normally. Yeah. But even last year, that was a good team that had a really good record. And Brown was at least able to, you know, he was able to play. But he certainly got humbled his first year. He wasn't just like, you know, it wasn't a birthright that he just walked in and gets to take all the shots. Not at all.

In fact, he still doesn't get to. you know whereas when you play on a really crappy when you play on a really crappy team and you can just walk in and you're the guy immediately I feel like that can stunt you I do all right second one for me

is I and again this is the first impression I think it's going to be harder for the Warriors to win the 65 to you know plus games than I

originally thought. And, and here's why I say this. Obviously, they were in a tight game last night with the, with the Mavericks at halftime and then just blew the doors off of them. But just watching them, you know, obviously I got to see them in person over the weekend. And one of the things that stood out to me is there are a lot of teams. It's now three years that they have had this team and then you look around and and so many teams we live in a copycat world and i think that that has an effect on all all teams and the personnel that they that they have because you obviously look at the best teams and so you see one of the teams starts draymond green at center one of the teams in the other conference um starts kevin love at center and so three years ago there

was still a lot of, there was still a lot of feeling about he's too small to be a four and he's not quick enough to be a three. And like position, like, there were, there were still, it was still prevalent where people viewed basketball like that. And what they did, with the shooting and with the pace and with the personnel is they flipped, they did, like, their success flipped a lot of things on their head. Now, I think that there was, was a sentiment at the beginning it was like dude don't try to match up with them because you're just you can try to but you ain't going to do it as well as them but i look around the league and i see so many teams that want uh length and athleticism and playmaking at all different positions

they want guys that can dribble pass and shoot at all kinds of positions and if you're just kind of like a one-trick pony it's really held against you and so it's almost like Three years down the road this year, I feel like on a night in, night out basis, clearly it's everybody's, you know, Super Bowl when that team comes to town in most cases. But I feel like so many of these teams have all, you know, they've changed the way things are being done. And so teams match up a lot better than them, you know, than they, then they usually. to. And so, I, you know, playing a hundred games every year's hard anyway. But I thought maybe, well, damn, man, they lost Durant for a crazy amount of time last year. And they still won all those

games. Well, what this year, and they're comfortable playing with each other and they're honed in? My God. I mean, what are they going to do? Like, they may, what are they going to lose, like a couple games the whole year. And then I just, I don't know. I wonder because I do think that they have had a profound effect on people. And I think they are going to see more teams with harder matchups for them. They're still amazing. They're still the overwhelming favorite.

But in terms of racking up an absurd amount of wins, I think it's going to be a little harder than I thought. I was one of those that thought like, what the hell? They're going to go like 77. and five. I mean, it's all unfair. It's all stupid. But I think I watch the league and I think like, there's a lot of teams that are playing a lot differently than they used to. And you, you see a lot of, you know, six, eight guys standing out on the wing that are playing power forward now. And that wasn't so three years ago, but it is now. I don't know. Is that,

is that ridiculous? Or what you think? I'm going to respond to what you said about Golden say then kind of pivot into my second point that we're going to discuss because it relates to the last thing you said, Chris. And that's the fact that, yeah, you're right. You know, with Golden State, they have gone off to a slower start, partially because teams are playing a little bit more like them in some ways. I think we're going to see that over the course of the season. Ultimately, I think Golden State's only opponent really is himself. I think what Steve Kerr said, I believe, after Saturday's game or Friday's game against the Pelicans, whatever game it was after one of the games he said how with the lack of practice time with a shorter training

camp shorter preseason they haven't really been able to get into the same rhythm that they had in the past and i think really that's the key thing for them that i underestimated that so did in a lot of other people where early in the season they're still in training camp mode and it's going to take time for them to really get that same rhythm where they're just pummeling opponents um with that said you're right like teams are presenting a greater challenge this year and this is kind of one of the things that i wrote about during the preseason where it's like they have a lot more elite level competition um not necessarily teams that are on their same level but they're at least a tier below and so yeah i mean it's going to be harder for them to to get that over that i believe the over the over under

was 67 and a half it's going to be hard for them to hit that with the amount of opponents that they have to your point last point chris about about about the teams of taking on more of their style. This is my second point. The Raptors change style of play drastically. I mean, they're the team that has done that, I think, more than anybody else. This year, they have the second highest three-point rate in the league of 44%, which means 44% of their shots have been three-pointers.

That's compared to last year when they ranked 22nd with only 29%. And this year, they're passing the ball a hell of a lot more, too. They're 10th and assist percentage after ranking 40%. 30th, the last two seasons and 28th in the 2014-15 season. And NBA.com doesn't have tracking data available yet, but I'll be very curious to see what their passing numbers look like based on the tracking data. I would imagine there's going to be a significant difference based on passes per possession

or passes per minute. And it's not like, so like the thing with Golden State and Houston and teams like that, it's not like they just launch threes and they don't get to the line or they don't get to the rim. the Toronto is kind of doing that too where they haven't stopped attacking the rim. They haven't stopped drawing files. It's just they've kind of taken away the mid-range shot. And so they've totally adapted that modern style of play.

They've modernized their offense. And I'm excited about it. They need to start hitting more threes that they're taking. But the fact that they're making a really, really admirable effort to take on the style after the years of just iso ball. It's fun. It's really fun to see another team taken on that style. And you know what?

You got to give Dwayne Casey credit for that. You do. Yeah. It's not easy to pivot. Yep. Right? When it's the same guy. Not at all.

Usually you've got to make a coaching change to get it to happen. Right. But to have somebody, you know, that's in charge and willing, willing to change. I think Casey deserves some real credit for that. Um, and let, oh, hey, let me, let me, let me, uh, just circle back real quick on the, on the Warriors thing, because I didn't mention this. One of the other things was, um, you know, a couple years ago, and this is, this stands to reason when you have to pay Curry and you got another 20 plus million dollar player on your roster in Durant that your bench is going to take a hit. There's just no way around it, right? And, and that is the other thing about the Warriors. Their, their starters are so amazing that they are going to bury you,

most nights. But their bench is not what it used to be. There's, I mean, it used to be like if you would, they would, they would put Durant and Curry on the bench and they would have that unit with like, even like when the one with like Barbosa and Spates and Livingston and those guys. And it was like they might be up by 14 and then they put the bench in and the next thing they're up by 30. And I don't, I don't see that happening with them as much this year.

on a regular basis. I don't think their bench is going to bury people and it used to be able to bury people. That's what I'd say. Like when they bury people, it's going to be because, you know, Curry, Clay, Durant, and Draymond are out there. But that's what happened.

It would be interesting to see how they evolve. I still think that they're only true opponent of themselves, though, ultimately. Listen, don't get me wrong. They're amazing. Number three for me. And this, I, you and I talked about our particular.

predictions. We talked about playoff teams and everything else, right? And we talked about how much talent there is up and down that bench in Denver. But I said, you know, I do wonder if the point guard thing is going to hold them back. And since we last spoke, I was very surprised when I, and maybe I shouldn't have been, but they just waived Jemir Nelson and then they brought in Richard Jefferson after he got cut by the Cleveland Cavaliers. And I think they effed that up. I do. And maybe this is going to be an overreaction, but I already had that in my head anyway.

I was already kind of worried about it. And Jamir Nelson shot well from three. And Jamir Nelson's like a real leader. Like he's a real like I think those guys, you know, he took the challenge every night. And you face so many awesome point guards. And I get it. They're at a deficit, right? You don't love the matchup the night that Jamir Nelson's going to have to go up against John Wall.

But I don't think, I do not think Murray is a point guard. And I do not, and I do not believe in Moody yet. And so, and I get like, I read their quotes from Mike Maloney said, you know, basically it really doesn't matter because, you know, Nicola and Paul are going to have the ball. so much. We don't have to have John Stockton. Okay, fine. You don't have to have John Stockton. You're going to run your offense to those guys. But I think

having Jamir Nelson was a way better deal than what they're rolling with now, because those guys are both young. And I think they're going to cost themselves a significant amount of wins unless

they go and find somebody to replace that Jamir Nelson, that calming influence, that what, you know, who's going to be speaking up, who's going to lead by example. I, I don't know. I thought that was dumb. I thought it was dumb. And I think it may cost them.

I don't know. I don't know. It's Jamir Nelson, though. I mean, they still have enough ball handlers at least. I think Will Barton can handle the rock. Emmanuel Moodye. I mean, he's coming off the bench. It's not, it's not like a significant role for him. I mean, I agree. Like, Nelson is a loss. But at the same,

time. I think they have enough ball handlers on that team where I don't know if Nelson really would move the needle that much. But to your point, Chris, they're the team that needs someone like Eric Bletso, right? Bletso would be perfect on that team based on kind of the role of the point guard based on the fact that it is a multi-ball handler or offense. I think Bletso would look great for them. He would really bolster their defense, but he would also provide another ball handling presence on the offensive of them on the floor without having to be the primary guy because they do distribute the ball around. Millsap handles it.

Yolkich handles it. Will Barton's going to run offense too. I think that would be a good spot for Bletso. But personally, I'm not too worried about them losing Nelson. All right. I am. You are not. And I think it will cost them.

And I think what we're going to see is maybe not individually his, they were, make no mistake, they were fighting for a playoff spot last year because they had Nelson. When they moved to that and they abandoned the Moodye stuff, that gave him a chance. And obviously the Yokic that he exploded and whatever else. But I don't know, man. I'm a Jemir fan. And I think that the other stuff that you bring. Is Jemir Nelson a top five point guard?

Oh, come. I'm only kidding. I'm only kidding. Yeah. I'm only kidding. He's not even a top 20. He'd probably want him as your backup. But I'm comparing him.

I'm only kidding. But I'm, but I mean, I'm comparing him to Murray and I'm comparing him to Murray and the, and Moodye. And I do, I don't. You guys aren't ready to handle the loan. Jamal Murray is not a point guard. I don't give a damn what anybody says. He should not be playing point guard. I'm with you.

I'm with you. Because Jamal Murray is a guy that I was not super high on prior to the draft. I mean, he's going to be a good player, but I just don't see the point guard skills with him. I don't think he is quick enough of a first step. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of besides. the point but I don't think Murray's a point card either. All right. So that was my third one.

What's your third one? Chris Staps. With all the talk about Janus and all this focus on super teams, it's kind of weird to me, Chris that Chris Staps has kind of slipped under the radar a little bit. I mean, he's been pretty unbelievable, averaging 32 points, nine rebounds, and it's only two games. So it's like the stats don't really matter that much. So forget the stats.

It's like the way he looks and the game just looks easy to him. He's smooth attacking from the perimeter. His footwork looks cleaner, more crisp. He's scoring from the low post and the high post, scoring on the roll and the pick and pop. The Knicks are running him off screen sometimes, which is something he's done since he's been playing overseas. I mean, he is only 22 and he is suddenly looking like a complete player.

And I'm just floored by him so far, only two games. And I just think that poor Zingis is the only reason to watch the Knicks, and he's the only reason to feel hopeful about their future. And what we're seeing so far is actually quite a lot of reason to feel a lot of hope because he's been pretty unbelievable. He really is a freak of nature too. You know, I know everybody calls him the unicorn, but for anybody, you know, for that listens to this, if you have the opportunity, there are some guys in the NBA. Well, I mean, I think most of them. guys in the NBA that you gain a different level of appreciation for when you see them in person,

but there are some that are just a total, they're another level. And when you see that kid in person and you see how tall he is, how big he really is when he's walking around, it is, I mean, it is shocking how tall that kid is with the ability to do everything that he can do with the shooting and the dribbling and everything. I mean, he's gigantic. It's like he's, you know, I mean, I get it, right? You see him on TV. People know he's tall or whatever.

He slumps over a lot, too, you know, that almost makes him look not as tall. But he's as tall as like these frigging Samuel Dallon bears of the world, like these guys that, you know, these tall centers that we used to see. That's a good one. You know what I'm saying? Like these tall centers that we used to see. I mean, what is he like, seven, two, seven, I mean, it's just, I don't know, man. He's freaky. Seven, seven, seven, three.

Seven three, I believe in shoes. So he's like seven one and a half flat footed seven three in shoes, which is outrageous. I've never seen anything like that. You know, I mean, you see Durant and you get an appreciation because he's, he's super tall too. Right. And when you see him handling the ball like he does, it's just unbelievable. But the Porzingis thing is just another level. Like he does he looks like every guy that would be the third center on a team, you know, 15 years ago that you would just put in there to like try to get some fouls and maybe protect the room for a minute.

So the idea that this guy can cross people over is just, I mean, it's the evolution of the game for sure. And he is one thing I super agree with you on. He is absolutely the only reason to watch the Knicks. yes I really except the reason is there what else is there what else you're gonna watch on that team

my favorite my favorite Frankie nicotine's not playing I know my favorite my favorite don't slander Ron Baker that's my favorite I'm not

I like Ron Baker children's I haven't you're not going to tune in to watch Ron Baker he is a children's book author Kevin of which

I own an autograph copy. You know what? You know how that happened? Was, what's his name? Conceptione Network. He was on with me last year. Yeah, he was on with me last year and brought it up. And I thought he was effing with me. And then I looked it up. You're never too big to dream small. Yeah, you're never too big to dream small. What is it? You're never too small to dream big or whatever. You're too big to you're too big to dream small. Yeah, yeah. From the small towns of Northwest Kansas, Ron Baker has reached the pinnacles of basketball. He laid. led Scott City to the state high school championship.

See? He was a star player in the best hour of Wichita State basketball history. He was even a member of Team USA in the Pan Am games. As he begins his journey to the professional level, Ron's first children book offers some more encouraging words to young readers. You're too big to dream small. I've got an autograph copy. Go buy Ron Baker's book.

That's pretty awesome. Is it good? It's unbelievable. He's like the cover. It's really cool. He's like the modern day, Oh, what was the name of that guy that I used to read the books when I was a kid? Matt Christopher.

I think Matt Christopher was the sports book guy. I think that was the name of it. Anyway, number four. So everybody loves Ben Simmons, everybody loves Lanzo Ball, everybody loves Dennis Smith Jr., and all these rookies and rookie point guards around the league. The one to watch for me, and I get it. I love watching all of them. But man, watch out for old Deere and Fox.

Now, he has, so far this year, had 50, he's average 15 points, 5 rebounds and five assists in an average of 27 minutes. He's also, and then the other night, I mean, you're talking 19, 5, 4, 3 steals. He's so far 46% from the field, 40% from 3. and you just watch him and he is clearly the most exciting player on the floor almost always. He is, he's going to be a league pass go-to for me for sure. And he may end up being the best of them. It's totally possible because if he can really shoot, my God, speed kills.

And you think about these guys, you know, the John Walls and that Derek Rose and the Russell Westbrook and if you've got the requisite talent, man, what you can't do is match their speed. And his speed with the ball, and if he can become a shooter, my God, Kevin. I love this kid. I absolutely love him. And I love him,

even though the last game on last night was that Phoenix Sacramento game. And I watched that thing on League Pass. Holy crap, do you want to talk about bad basketball? Those teams both. I mean, they were just horrific to watch. Damn, they're the only reason I was watching that thing was for Deerran Fox after a while because he was the only fun thing going on.

Scala Bissier was kind of fun too. But that game was horrendous. Anyway, Deerrin Fox, I feel like he's getting talked about less than the other rookies. But first impression on him, I loved him anyway. I was there for the Deerran Fox. I saw the Deeran Fox Alonzo Ball tournament game in person and I walked out of the arena going, holy crap this kid. I mean, that was one of the best performances I've ever seen ever in anything.

But I mean, through the first couple games, he is, I mean, he's been amazing. So I want to give a shout out to him. And I saw you've got quite the controversy on your hands with Mr. Fox. Yes, yes. Oh, the other night, someone, somebody at the King's game, yelled kameha which is not correct the term in dragon ball z is kameha meha so de aaron fox said it wasn't him and i believe him because i don't think he would make a mistake like that um but the fact is is that dragon ball z has somehow infiltrated the nba in a way that makes my life and the lives of

so many others much much much much much better and it's not just de aaron fox you look at his Twitter page. He says he lives on Planet Vigida. His Twitter image is a Photoshop of him as a Dragon Ball Z character. His Twitter header photo is a bunch of Dragon Ball Z characters. It's not just the Aaron Fox, Chris. It's not just him. Jordan Bell last time on Instagram posted a Photoshop of him as a Dragon Ball Z character with the caption Dub Z. You look at Clee Anthony early. He was watching Dragon Ball Super a couple weeks back. And someone tweeted me, And you, a tweet that you ignored probably for obvious reasons, a picture of Mark Gasol wearing a Dragon Ball Z shirt from some year in the playoffs.

It might have been this past year. Mark Gasol also a Dragon Ball fan. So Chris, NBA fans, NBA players love Dragon Ball Z. NBA players love Dragon Ball Z. It's happening. You can't deny it. And it's really the best development that has ever happened in the history of the National Basketball Association.

Okay, that's an overstatement. It's not the best thing that's ever happened. Okay, let's get that straight. And I'm actually getting... The best thing that's happened in the last two weeks. Is that an overstatement, too? I'm getting weirded out about this. I really am.

I'm getting weirded out. Why? Why? Because it's got to be like a generation gap thing. And I usually don't have that. It's what I said to you in the first place. Or it was Spike Eskin. What?

I said it to you and Spike. That's what it is. It's a generation thing. And you guys are like, no, it was around at my age. It's like, no, but it's different for this age group. Hold on now. I did not say it's a generational thing. I said, I don't even know what that.

I don't even know anything about it. I don't even know what the hell it is. It was Spike. Well, shout out to Spike Eskin. No, it's anime. It's anime. It's anime or something. Yeah.

Right. It's anime, yes. Okay. The only thing I, and again, I'm probably going to get killed for this. But like, anime guy to me is, like, when I think of anime, I think of the weirdest guy in Best Buy is the guy in the anime section. Like, whoever, whoever is the weirdest fucking guy in the whole place and I'm like, keep my kid away from him. He's the guy in the anime section. That's how I think I don't know

I don't know what to tell you That's what I think When I think of anime I didn't know it was so cool It did not use I tell you this When I grew up It was not cool

The weird dudes Are the ones that like anime It's still not cool Tate says Oh come on Tate I mean I guess it's I guess if the NBA players like it

It's getting You know It's getting cool now But I promise you for anybody I'm in my late 30s anybody around my age no man anime was not cool I don't know when that happened

how old are you Tate you're like 2024 25 are you 25 so you're around that age Chris you're right it wasn't you who said that it was Spike Eskin who who is the program director

of sports radio WIP in Philadelphia and co-host of the R-T-R-S-D, Ricky Sanchez podcast. So Spike said a couple weeks back in September that he thinks it's more of an age issue with Drangamozzi. He said he's 41, Drangamo, no, sorry, let me restate that. He said it's not an age issue because that's what I said it was. It's a generational thing. And Spike said he's 41, Drangor Bolsey was around and thriving when I was in high school. That was a tweet.

And my whole thing was this. It's like, no, there's a different. from when the show was popular in Japan before it really aired in the U.S. It was different when it was just the magna, just the comics of it. It was when the show came in 1996 that it was insanely popular. Then it re-aired in Tunei in 2000 is when it was insanely popular. So we're talking about I was born in 1990. When I was around 10, 11, 12 years old, that's when that show was really huge for people at that age group.

And then it reared again like an 05 or 06. So we're talking about the same age range where some of these NBA players born in 95, 96, 97, were not even teenagers yet. That's when people watch the show. That's when it was big time. And that's why I think we're seeing a huge influx of NBA players entering the league that are huge Dragon Ball Z fans. All right. Let me say this.

I'm going to agree with Tate. Tate throws in, you know, that it's partly geographical too. I agree with it. He's North Carolina. I've spent the last, you know, 20 plus. years of my life in either the Midwest or the South. And so, I don't know. Like, it was the weird kids, right, Tate?

It's the weird kids. Yeah. Like, hey, these are the kids that, like, at, like, they would go, they would go to, like, this is, no, no, this is who it was. This is the best way for me to describe it. They're the kids that were, like, at Hot Topic with, like, they've got the, they got, they got the jeans on. Hey, hold on.

They got a chain on their wallet. Like they need a fucking chain on their wallet. There's no money in the thing anyway. And then they're like smoking herbal cigarettes outside the mall talking about how their parents don't understand them. Like that's that's that was my. That's who it was. So maybe just in our parts of the country,

that's what was going on. Whereas everybody else was like, hell, normal and NBA players were watching it. It must have been a different. world. I don't know. It's like, it's like Jimmy Hendricks said. They talking about me like a dog, talking about the clothes I wear, but they don't realize they're the ones who's square. All right. I'm going to go watch some Dragon Ball Z. I want to get down. Listen, the point is, I love De Aaron Fox. And if he likes Dragon Ball Z, then so do I. And I apologize. I love, I love Dragon Ball Z if De Aaron Fox does. End of story. Okay. All right. Good.

Go ahead. I'm glad that you are going to start watching Dragon Ball Super now, Chris. Right. You're fourth. Yeah, so Blake Griffin. Blake Griffin's my fourth one. Blake is just shooting and draining threes. He's attended 26 threes in the regular season and the preseason combined, and he's hit

13 of those. And, you know, obviously he's not going to keep shooting 50%. But his shooting mechanics, to me, in the clips that we've seen so far, look a lot smoother. He's not shooting on the way down as much on his jumpers. and that was kind of, I think, one of the mechanical flaws for him that led to a lot of inconsistencies in the past. And it's not just that either. He's shooting better from the free throw line as well.

Again, another small sample, but 85% this month in the preseason and regular season combined. And so for someone like Blake, it's like, it's hard to know if this is for real or not, but I kind of lean towards the side that it is. And the main reason why is because we've seen these incremental improvements from him every single season. I mean, he has stepped back, you know, ever since we had kind of lob city with L.A. and and Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, he's kind of really moved his game backward towards the three point line every single season. And this is the year where hopefully it all clicks.

And so far it has for him. He's been great so far. You've been talking about that for a long time, Kevin, about him and more perimeter basketball out of Blake Griffin. So you come to that opinion, honest, for sure. I think it's true, too. I think you're going to see a big uptick. You're seeing this a lot more with the bigs that have the ability to do it.

You saw it happen last year. Marcus All had taken like 10, like in his whole life. And he took like 200 last year, which leads me to my number five. Change your Grizzlies predictions. Now. I'm giving you a heads up now. They have beaten, obviously, they beat the Pelicans. So what.

but they have beaten the Warriors and the Rockets back to back. David Fisdale has got a team in his likeness with a bunch of interchangeable parts. And they haven't even figured it out yet, but they clearly still really, really defend. And they've got a front line of, you know, Mike Conley on one end or Mario Chalmers when he comes in. And then a backline of Marcosal, who – Markisaw looks like a superstar so far this year. But beyond all that, the Grizzlies have the opportunity. This has got to be a record as a NBA irritant. They have played three outstanding players, or more than three outstanding players.

But they have in the last, their first three games, first game they played against the Pelicans. DeMarcus cousins told a lady in the crowd to fuck off. And he got fined, 25 grand. Steph Curry chucked his mouthguard at a referee and got fined $50,000. And then last night, you got text for James Hardin who pushed down Mario Chalmers as Chalmers was trying to get up after they got tangled up. They are three for three in opposing superstars losing their minds. And these are not guys that like regular cousins does. but you don't regularly see either Curry or Hardin lose their minds about stuff.

And so the fact that they've gotten under their skin, I think bode some very interesting things. They may end up breaking the NBA record for opponent fines this year because they get up in you and these guys get like super frustrated for sure. And by the way, like if we're talking about who could break the warrior, year's win record. It's pretty clear it's the Grizzlies, right? Kev. Yeah, it's got to be Memphis. I mean, Memphis, you look at their team. They are built. They have the superstar cornerstone of Chandler Parsons. If any team can really take away the one seed from going to say it or beat or even beat their 73 wins from a couple of a couple years ago. It's Mike Conley, Mario Chalmers, Tyreek Evans, James Ennis and Markasol. Like, that is just like something that you would not

normally put together, much less something you'd put together that could be devastating. But there it was last night. I don't even know what to think anymore, honestly. I don't know what to think. What's your last one? Ben Simmons is a beast. Oh, God. He's a beast.

I mean, he, okay, look, you get the guy, he has a triple double in his fourth game. He's putting up big numbers. But it's besides that that's, you know, impressive to me. It's really, we knew he was going to put up numbers. I thought he's, we already knew he was an outstanding passer. We already knew he was going to excel in transition. Those were things that we knew. We knew he could rebound, right? Those were all things that you kind of expected from him. But it's the things like he's playing better defense in the last four games than he did in all 33 of his games combined at LSU. I mean, he has just elevated his

play all around. I think he's doing a better job of a visual. working contact at the rim. One of my really hangups with him at LSU was the fact that he avoided contact so often. And he still does that sometimes to an extent, but he's gotten better at it at drawing files, and really asserting himself and using just his ridiculous frame as he should. So with Ben Simmons, it's like, look, his strengths have been enhanced. Like he's gotten better at what he's already been good at. But he's also started to turn some of his weaknesses into strength.

not really strengths, but he's improved his weaknesses at least. And for me, that that's the biggest encouragement where we're seeing a rapid improvement from a guy already in the fourth year of his NBA career. And there's going to be difficulties for him. Teams are going to play better defense on him as they kind of get the book on how to stop him in the half court. He's going to have games where he shoots like two of 12 or he can't get to the line because they sag off him because he can't shoot jumpers.

But the fact is is that he's already made progress. And that's really, really encouraging for me. And I think he's going to be far and away the rookie of the year this year. Just because of the numbers he's putting up, voters are going to give that to him. But also just in terms of production, he's been terrific. Yeah. If we're talking about first impressions and possible reactions, it feels to me like he is Simmons. You know, the whole idea of the process was to be able to nab guys that are going to be huge stars.

And it feels like while they missed on some of them in terms of becoming huge. huge stars like noelle like okofor i think sarge is going to be really good i'd be surprised if he's a huge star it feels like and and obviously the first impression on fultz is a bad one um but it feels like they nailed they clearly nailed it with imb if he can stay on the floor and i agree with you they they nailed it with simmons like of the whole group of the guys that they've drafted high It feels like those two they nailed and they could be both be huge, huge stars, like top 10, 20 players in the world. The other ones, no. But those ones, if the idea was to be able to get just some huge stars, those two.

And listen, it's good for Sixers fans, right? because the Simmons thing takes a little bit of the sting out of the first Fultz impression, which I think you would agree is not good. I mean, he's been horrific. But I'm not overly worried about an immature young 19-year-old kid who's got huge expectations on his shoulders. I think he's going to be fine. I think we need to give him time. But to your point, Chris, about some of their misses, let's just say, let's just say Fultz is a bum.

lust, right? Let's say it doesn't work out with him. But if Embed and Simmons are healthy, I mean, you've got two potential cornerstones right there. And getting one guy is really the hardest step, right? Get it, finding one star that kind of attracts other stars to come there. If you have two, suddenly that team, they're going to be really a destination spot to get for a third guy to come. And I don't think it would necessarily be the hardest thing in the world for them to get that. Oh, not to mention, they still have their draft picks coming up. They still have the Kings pick or the Lakers pick. They still have assets.

They are an amazing spot. And maybe Sorich turns out to that guy. I mean, you do want to get, listen, they had the operas. I get you, I get you saying that, but you did have the opportunity to draft a third. I mean, clearly when we think about one of the best franchises over the course of the last decade, it's Oklahoma City. And they just nailed it back to back to back, right? They got, they got Durant, they got Westbrook, they got hardened. And that's what you'd hope.

That's the grand slam. Maybe it is false. Maybe it is Fultz. I mean, he, he, he can't shoot the ball right now. I know. Which is just flabbergasting to watch. It is so whack. Did you see the, do you see, though, the free throw where he, I mean, good grief.

He missed the rim. He's totally screwed up right now. But he still had some moments driving to the rim, using spin moves, and he looks clean doing that. He still had moments and just give Markell Fultz more time than you would probably want to give him. especially with this weird, weird shot thing that he's going on now. He needs to just go back to the, what was it, the pull-up hezzy Jimbo or whatever? Wasn't that him? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That fault, I don't know. Fault is weird. Fultz is weird, and I hope he works it out, but it'll take time. Fair enough. Kevin, it has been a fun, fun week, first week of the NBA season. I'm glad it's all back. Thanks, brother. Thank you, Chris. That was fun.

Looking for it next Tuesday. It's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.