The Ringer NBA Show - First Week Orientation | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos present their overreactions from the first week of NBA play. They discuss the impressive play from Damian Lillard and the Portland Trailblazers (01:48). Later, they debate whether the underperformance of teams such as the Clippers (16:12), Nets (25:14), and Sixers (38:13) should raise any concerns. Finally, they highlight the level of talent in the league right now compared to previous years (56:50), and give some love to Pascal Siakam (63:05). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mac Jones is ripped. Matt Patricia's calling plays. The Celtics are title favorites. And The Ringer has a new Boston show. I'm Brian Barrett, host of Off the Pike, the show covering all things Boston Sports. I'll have shows multiple times a week covering your favorite teams and with your favorite ringer and local guests.

Plus, maybe Bill will stop by to rant about the socks. Follow off the pike with me, Brian Barrett, now on Spotify. Hello, and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier. Joining me, as always, Big Was, Rob Mahoney, gentlemen, one week of NBA basketball is in the books. Rob, how's it feeling? I've got thoughts.

I've got notes. You know, I'm being studious over here. I'm trying to get back into it. Slowly but surely, we are getting back into regular season form. I got to say, I think this is the most exciting time of the year for the NBA. Like, everyone has their specific holidays that they like. I think this first opening weekend where I just sit in my apartment, do nothing but watch low-level. like Spurs versus Utah type of games

is really where I thrive. Those are some of the best teams in the league right now. That's true. So you watch it with the low level. It's true. It's true. We're going to go over all of that stuff today because we have a little edition of group chat show and tell. We're going to call this the first week orientation.

So what we did is we asked all of our participants to come with two or three things that really stuck out over this first week of the 2020, 23 season. Was, why don't you start because you're going to lead off with the best team currently in the NBA?

Yeah, I want to start with Dame Lillard and the Portland Trailblazers, but mainly Dame because, you know, the rumors of his demise were greatly exaggerated. Honestly, he was dealing with some nagging injuries, not just last year, but the year before

as well. And he finally took the time last year to just take off and heal. I said it before and I'll say it again. Dame Lillard is a model NBA superstar. He had to be begged not to play, not to show up. You know, and he shows up every single time and his presence lifts the team every time.

And to start the year, he's just been dominant. Like, I watched the Laker game where, of course, he does the Dame time thing at the end of the game, but it was the entire game. He just dominated. The Lakers could do nothing with Dame Lillard. And, you know, of course, he had his late game heroics, which we've come to expect.

But that game against the Nuggets, my Nuggets, as you know, was illuminating to me because in the second, like, in the second half, Anthony Simons comes out and just goes insane. He makes like six threes in a row in the third quarter. he has like a 24 point quarter it's ridiculous and the whole time dame's doing nothing but just passing him the ball like guys coming off a screen dame is like here's a chess pass

and I'm like guys like I want to be to start the game dame was in the pain he was hitting his getting to his step back he was just shredding Denver to start he got all that time the rest and I was like man this game is over because as soon as simon sits Dame's just going to go back to doing what he was doing before the hot streak, right? And they dominated the Nuggets, particularly the Nuggets defense in that game. And just, you know, that just leapt off the page to me. It's like we kind of, you know, it's been a while since we've seen Dame be Dame.

And to start this season, he is fully back. And he's as good as he's ever been to start this season. Well, part of the whole Dame time experience is that he's always been a guy who has such a great sense of the moment, and that includes knowing when to set up guys like Simons to cook, knowing when in past generations, guys like CJ to cook. Like, he's always been good at seeding that spotlight in a way that other like volume shooting, high shooting, high scoring guards sometimes aren't. So the fact that he's able to balance the best version of his own scoring self and empowering

guys like Simons and making room for a guy like Grant to come in and basically a role that's totally new to this team and thrive in his own way at the same time, it's been really impressive. I mean, we can have to talk about what's sustainable here between the offense and the defense. They're kind of singing and hitting on all cylinders right now. But I think the fact that DAME is playing at this level is really the thing that matters the most.

That's what gives you hope in the fact that this can be a team of serious import going through the season. Yeah, so 41, 41, 31 over his last three games. He had 20 in the first game against the Kings. There's definitely some wonkiness to these earlier results. It depends

on who you're playing or like which team is on three games in four nights or on a back-to-back. But, I mean, the difference in a lot of these games have been dame. And like when you look at a team like the Lakers who have been in some of these games that they've fallen flat on their face on, like the difference between the Lakers being one in three or two and two is a knight like dame, a player like dame staying, like stepping up and taking the throat, the game by the throat and just claiming victory. whereas like you're not getting that from LeBron these days, AD, not the same guy.

But we should talk about sustainability because they are four or no, the only four or no team in the league. I guess do we see this as more a result of the schedule of just some hot nights from Damos? Or do we think like the Blazers are here to stay as like a top tier team? I don't think there is good as the sons or the warriors necessarily. or the nuggets, to be honest, but they're not, they're probably the tier right underneath them. And the reason for that is they've never been as athletic,

particularly on the wings, around Dane as they are right now. And that's Gary Payton the third, Gary Payton the second, excuse me. He hasn't even played yet. But, you know, what they've done with Jeremy Graham, a little. Of course,

you know, Dame talks about how competitive the group is, right? And that starts with a guy like Josh Hart, who is just like a crazy person every time he touches the floor.

I just think the tenacity and the overall athleticism is finally surrounding Dame Lillard in a way that just, it just didn't happen when they had CJ. Whereas it's like, all right, you have these two small guys

and you're not even buttressing that with complimentary players, particularly to deal with stuff on defense, right? Obviously, they can carry offense and they have. They've always been a quality offense. But I think now, you know, Simons essentially replicates what CJ could do. And they're just way more, they're just way younger, springier, and quick twitchier around Dame and the stuff that he's doing. and I think it's going to make a difference.

We need to dwell for a second on the absolute lunacy of Josh Hart. Because, like, look at this starting lineup. Yeah, Damian Lillard and Anthony Simons. You've got Yusuf Nurkich and Jeremy Grant. That's one of the best rebounding teams in the league right now. And the reason is because Josh Hart is rebounding like he's 7.6. Like, he's pulling down everything and chasing after every.

Maybe 7.6 is too tall because he's too mobile for that. But, like, he's just been a vacuum. and a vacuum of effort in terms of chasing after that stuff. And those are the kind of guys you need to make these sorts of lineups and rotations work. I think that's why he was quietly such a big addition for them, even in limited form last season. But obviously now that they have even more talent, even more guys to work with,

he's just going to be the glue of so many important Blazers lineups. Yeah, they have a lot of these tryhard guys or high-level try-hard guys, but they also have just an ordinary amount of youth. Like at some point, they just became one of the youngest, fastest, most vibrant young teams that we have in the league. It's not just the guys you mentioned, Shaden Sharp coming in as a rookie

and already looking like he belonged here. I told you guys, I really, really liked him. Told you all that. He's good. He's a wise, All-Star. Nazir Little, if you know you know All-Star, they have all these guys from the reigning Summer League champion,

Portland Blazers run. And like, I don't know how many of these guys will ultimately stick on the roster level and be high-level players. Like, if you get a Keon Johnson as a regular contributor, like, by all means, I don't know about Jabari Walker, Trenton Watford. Like, there's a lot of guys here. I don't know who's going to stick.

But, like, all of a sudden, a team that seemed like had a pretty high, like, low ceiling to what they could do, all of a sudden seems like it has a little bit of a one way. I guess the question is, like, for this season specifically, do we think, like, how far they can get? Because they are ninth on defense, but I look out there and sometimes I'm like, maybe, you know? Like, I don't think this looks like a top 10 defense.

Maybe if they just get by, that's enough. But it's hard to say. I guess I don't believe in Nurkich overall as someone who can last the full season, let alone be impactful like he used to be. Well, that's the area where the depth might come into play, right? Is this the size? Because if we're talking about, like, oh, this team has so many big wings now, obviously Jeremy Grant could plug in at the five sum.

That'll be an option for them in a lot of high level. leverage games. But when you're talking about, can they be an elite defense over the course the entire season that not only counts on Nurkage being good, but being healthy for the long run. And we'll have to wait and see on that part of it. But four games in, like, they've done enough to kind of move the line on what they can be, I think, in terms of like a team that needs to be taken a little bit more seriously. They've earned that kind of credibility. That's not to say they don't still have the same burden of proof in terms of if you want to get into those conversations with as Wads laid out, the Nuggets and the Sons and the Warriors and, I mean,

who knows if the Clippers are in that category, I guess, theoretically the Clippers. Notice I left them out. Yeah. Very, very pointed omission. But I think they've gotten themselves into that mix with the Mavs and the Grizzlies and potentially the Timberwolves. Like that next class of Western Conference team, they feel closer to that right now than they do the Kings and the Lakers.

Yeah, and look, they're still starting to six foot four. guys, like, on their best days and Dame Lillard, right? So at a certain point in the NBA, physical matters, you know, being short will matter at a point, but they are out-efforting teams. And, you know, Dame tells the story of, like, first time sort of meeting Josh Hart and, like, having a time with him, and then they're playing some pickup game and something goes wrong, and Josh Hart is, like, kicking ball. into the stands.

He's like breaking, throwing chairs and stuff. And he's like, yo, this guy's insane. But again, it sets a tone for how they, you know, they're going to approach things. And these guys are going to play with extremely high effort level. And, you know, they're executing in a way that they just, maybe they couldn't or they weren't able to for whatever reason last year. But they're doing it now.

And it's cool to watch. I've always thought of Justin is our Josh Hart. like after pods, you're revved up, you're punching holes in walls, like you're getting after it. Not actually all that talented on paper, but you put them into a podcast, man, he really gets after it.

Well, one of the teams you didn't mention when we were talking about comps here is the Pelicans. I feel like that's the other team in the West that's really just popped off the paper in the early goings here. Was, are you more bullish on the Blazers

or the Pelicans based on what you've seen through four games? I would say the, I would say the pelicans. Yeah. Because the thing that they're elite at, they have multiple ways to kill you with it. Whereas the Blazers, you know, Simons, as much as I love him again, another, this is on record. I got receipts for Simons. I've been on him for two, three years now.

Looking like Clay Thompson the other night. It was insane. He can be, but he can be a bit streaky. He's a bit one-dimensional in how he, you know. He attacks you, you know. So the Blazers, this Swiss Army knife doesn't have as much tools on it. And that's their thing, is the offense. So they're missing like the tweezers, the nail file.

Like they need all that stuff. Right. Whereas I feel like New Orleans is very diverse in how they can punish defenses between B.I., Zion, and... Herb Jones. C.J. McCollum, excuse me. But even Valichunis. If you try to do your little small ball routine on him,

he's beating your little center up. If you put a small ball center on Valanchunas, he's going to work that dude. If he's not scoring, he's getting to the line. Like, this guy is so physical at the five. So that's what I mean about them. Like, they have multiple ways to kill you with. The players still feel a little dame heavy, you know,

even if I do love Simons. Well, you had a great counterpoint on that with the Pelicans, last night with their win over the maps where no Brandon Ingram, no Zion Williamson. Absolutely no problem. Some of that is like that was a classic. We've seen that basically that exact Dallas loss many times. Like that is a way that they have played many games in terms of blowing leads in exactly that fashion. But you have to have guys stepping up from every corner of your rotation and your roster.

And that's where we'll see what Shaden Sharp can do, you know, potentially down the line. when he has his huge moment in the middle of the season where he has to really stretch and play big minutes is where we'll see all of these role guys as we'll see, like, can Justice Winslow be an incredibly important rotation piece for you for a two-week stretch when Jeremy Grant is out of the lineup or whatever?

Those are the things, that's all left to be determined. But I think the fact that we've even asked in those questions, that's a great sign for where the Blazers have started. Yeah, the Pelicans just look incredible right now. And it wasn't just last night against the suns. It was actually what tipped me was when they forced overtime against the jazz where all those guys were out.

And basically they're like, we're just going to play all of our bench guys and we're going to switch everything. And they absolutely shut down the jazz. And now let's take a step back. It is the Jazz. We all expect this to be one of the worst teams in the league. But the Jazz has been dominant thus far

and they are a credible NBA team with a lot of high-level veterans. And they basically whittled down the Jazz's offense to Jordan Clarkson just like vomiting left and right shots up. And it was just like, I've never seen a team just, can be completely just shut down like they were. And like, that's a credit to the Pelicans. But in the big picture, I do feel like they have almost opposite problems where it's like,

I know that the Pelicans can really nail this sort of like hustle, try hard, like this like spirit, this verve, like we are that team, the underdogs, we're going to do that. I actually have a question about whether or not they can marry that with a dominant Zion led, Ingram-led team. They looked good against the Nets, but as we'll get too shortly here, I don't know what's down with the Nets too. Whereas we know that Dame can lead a top-level team. Like, he could lead a team to the West Finals. They could be that team.

And so I have more confidence because I've seen it happen with the Blazers, I guess. So, but let's pivot to our next topic here just because we're kind of on it. I have written down, this is one for me. I'm officially scared of the Los Angeles Clippers who, I guess Kauai Leonard just doesn't play anymore. he's coming off the bench first and foremost, not playing in back-to-backs. And then all of a sudden, yesterday, on Tuesday, we get that he has stiffness in his knee,

which means he didn't play against the Thunder of the first night, in which the Clippers got absolutely blown to smithereens by a Shea Gilders-Alexander and Trey Man. And then he's not going to play later in the week against the Thunder. And so I'm kind of getting some deja vu here, and I'm kind of getting some bad vibes.

And now they have all the depth. They have Paul George, who looked incredible against the Kings the other night. I think he had 40. I'm just, I'm worried. You know, I've seen this before. And I would just like to enjoy Clippers basketball once in the Kauai Leonard era, but I just can't find myself. And so I'm a little bit afraid, Rob.

I mean, it's like you're saying having one of the worst offenses in the NBA so far is not ideal. Yeah, robbing up against the Lakers. It's not what you want. I will say like this is probably, as far as the too many guys axiom that we talk about with this team a lot, this is one of the worst case scenarios for that, which is if you start slow and people start grumbling and people feel a certain way about their roles, or you have guys like Norm Powell and Reggie Jackson, have not clicked, have not been able to hit shots, have not been very successful in their minutes so far, then you start getting into some of those vibes. Then things start getting like drudged up and stoked. I don't know that we're there yet. but there's reason for concern it's just like with any of these injury cases I have inclined to wait and see even though Kauai is an exceptional example

like ramping him up probably is smart you know like that's probably that probably is what they need to do so I think this is a team that we're going to be checking in December and January and that'll be kind of the real test of where they are at least kind of what they're going to be for this season but it's not great you know it's not a spirited start to say the least for a team

that like you know you would love to see them come out of the gate and this rotation just click and work and everything kind of fall into a natural place. It certainly does not feel like that. Yeah, I've been skeptical of the clippers and it's the Kauai injury question from the start. It's just essentially, from 2017 on, the guy's injury, his injury stuff,

has been just omnipresent. It's been part of every single team in situation that he's been a part of since. So that's five years of this now. We got five years of evidence that this is a real thing. It's a chronic thing. It's not in, you know, you tear your ACL, you rehab it, and then you come back a year and a half later and you're, you know, you're kind of mostly back to yourself.

This is not that. This is something that Kauai is going to deal with until the end of his playing days. And for me, you know, my, like, if you can't handle the intensity of a Saturday, Sacramento Kings game in October, right? Why am I going to think you can handle the intensity of a playoff series in June or May or even April? Like, how can we expect them to be the team like the Warriors or whoever in the Western Conference at the highest intensity, you know, with a day of rest in between? And it's not like Kauai is going to be like, you know, Kauai, come be career.

on the Showtime Lakers. Kawhi, come be shack on, you know, the Miami Heat with D. Wade. No, it's Kauai. Take us home. Drive us home every single night. I don't understand how we think he can do that. Like, I just don't get it. His body is just not up to that task, you know, and that's why it's hard for me to believe in the clippers.

Because Paul George, look, I think he's a great player. he will be a great performer in the playoffs when he's called upon. He's not going to be the engine that takes this team to a championship or to the conference finals. He's going to be complimentary to what Kauai Leonard is doing, if he's doing it at all. And so, you know, I can't say I'm worried for the clippers because this is what I expected of them, you know?

But I think the reason we can at least try to expect those things of Kauai in April and May when he's not doing him now is because, we're talking about a timeline that's six and seven months away, you know. I wouldn't even begin to say what you're going to be capable of in six months. Who knows what could happen between now and then. But he's the problem with that, Rob. When did this guy play before this? He has not played in forever.

And so if the idea is rest, he's had rest before this. Why is this rest going to be different? I don't see. It's a longer rest. It is a longer rest. Yeah. This is the snooze. He's already woken up once.

Let's snooze it for a couple more months and see what we can do. Listen, this might be the prudent path, like to give him as much time, especially early in the season when none of this is as important as we're laying out. But the problem is that they always take the prudent path. And it's just so joyless. Like, I just would like to enjoy the Kauai letter, Paul George Clippers in a way that I don't think I ever have.

Maybe in the playoffs, actually like the Dallas Maverick series, that was a good time. But then you flip to the next series, then Kwai's getting hurt. It's just like these short windows. When I keep thinking about how much the Clippers make such a big deal about like wanting to make an impact in L.A.

and like take the city from the Lakers and all this stuff. You got Steve Balmer on the Titan Tron during their intro video, like pantomiming, like looking around his new beautiful stadium, even though he's in a green screen like an episode of Star Wars or something. it's just I don't know how that ever happens because they're just like

taught, like I don't know when these guys are ever playing one, John Wall also not playing in back to backs now. They even like reference someone, I don't know how legit this is. I think it was on the broadcast though that Paul George played one night

and he had heavy minutes and he might not play the next night because it was a back-to-back. I'm like, what's wrong with Paul George now? Like it's just like, it's just not fun. And I guess that shouldn't,

concern me as much in the long term about their title odds, but it's just like, where is the joy here? No, I disagree with you. Why it shouldn't concern you long term about their title odds, because when you, like the Paul George thing is instructive. The Clippers do not take the regular season seriously. No. Right. They think they can show up to the playoffs and kill people. How'd that work out for them in 2020? This is exactly how they manage the regular season that. year. And I was around that team all freaking year, and I swear to God, there was not

a single person in that organization who did not know they were going to win the championship. Oh, no, we're just going to win the championship. Clearly. We have Paul George Caban, Leonard. I mean, we got Morris Twin, we got all this depth. The Lakers are a joke. The arrogance was

insane. And then fast forward two years and we're doing the exact same thing. They got pants, in the bubble. They got embarrassed. That was crazy what happened to them in game seven against the Nuggets. And I'm telling you, I would submit to you that part of that was that they didn't build this continuity and this trust with the group. It was just this idea that we got the players. We don't have to build these great habits in the regular season because we're so damn good.

Kauai Leonard is, you know, baby Jordan and all of that. And they flamed out and they're doing the exact same thing again. And you could call it prudent, you can call it whatever. At a certain point, you got to put the work in to become the team that wins a championship. You know, people could, like the Warriors could poo-poo the regular season. That group has been through so many freaking playoff games, like, so many comebacks, so many, like, ridiculous. The amount of things these guys have overcome. They lost Kevin Durant that smoked the freaking, the freaking blazers right after.

words like we've seen this team do so many things when it mattered the most what the hell have we seen the clippers do it's like this podcast yeah you know and and they treat the regular season like oh you know we're the clippers we're just gonna we're gonna breathe through everything and it's gonna be great because we're so above it all right we'll see all right let's uh let's uh talk about another team that is prone to uh not playing players sometimes uh not intentionally not by their own their own hand here. It's the Nets.

This is a bit of a two-hander, so I'm pretty afraid of the clippers. Less so am I concerned about the Brooklyn Nets, which might surprise, I guess it shouldn't surprise you considering my optimism going into the season

about the Nets. But I don't know here because I do think there's a Ben Simmons problem of foot. Oh, is there? But I think the bar, here's the thing. The bar is so low for Ben.

that we're essentially asking him to be PJ Tucker, right? Actually, it's not even PJ Tech. We're asking him to be PJ Tucker, but instead of shooting just to pass occasionally, right? Yeah. So I almost feel like Simmons doesn't matter in the long run. While they need defense, I feel like he could be replaced pretty easily.

But like Kevin Durant looks incredible. Kyrie Irving has looked good in spades. Joe Harris is back in the mix. Seth Curry's coming. later this week. I don't know. I guess it's just a blind belief in Kevin Durant, Rob,

but like, I know they're one and two. People are already fretting. I just, I'm not as worried as I think maybe a lot of other people are. They feel like a team where when you look at it

from a, from a bird's eye view, guys are going to get their numbers. And then when you really get down into, when you're really doing the inspection, it's like, oh, this foundation is fucked. Like,

like, there's just something, something very fundamentally off in kind of the mechanics of what they're doing. And that obviously starts on defense where this is a switch-heavy team with bad switch habits. And maybe they change that. Maybe they figure out how to not leave guys on an island.

They figure out how to gang rebound. They kind of find these ways to band together. But as it stands, I would like to give you a number, which is Brooklyn starting lineup, features Ben Simmons, features Nick Claxton, features Royce O'Neill, features Kevin Durant.

Those are four good defenders. giving up 128 points for 100 possessions, negative 31 net rating. It's not great. Like this team is deep, but it's not that deep. Do you think you could win a championship with a negative 31? History is made to be working, but we're going to put it to the test, you know?

We're here for experiments this season. Yeah. And again, it bears mentioning, who would be the guy to like help fix some of these holes, right? in the defense and the process and, you know, the game plan and the scheme. Isn't the guy that they wanted to fire in the offseason?

Is that who's supposed to come in and coach this group up? Yeah, I got to say, Steve Nash, every time they hand to him, major, like, cuckolded vibes from my... Like, he gives off the look of Jerry from Rick and Morty, like, where he's just, like, along from the ride, nobody respects him. I do think that's probably

what we're heading for here I wouldn't be surprised if he's let go in the next month or two and maybe that shakes things loose but I guess I'm just not convinced that this is irrevocably broken as I think a lot of people are suggesting based on what happened in the off season. The defense has been atrocious

I agree. It's been really bad. But oddly enough I think Simmons has been one of the biggest offender in that regard. He's been really bad even though he's only on the court to defend. he's not giving any resistance in some of these matchups, right? Like he's a big body, he's kind of chasing guys around. He's moving like Ben Simmons,

but then when it comes to the point where you actually need to, like, give some contact to prevent a guy from driving straight through you, he's not there. And none of these guys are there. Like, this team is getting absolutely shredded on the most basic defensive stuff. Like the things that veterans should know how to do, that's what worries me.

If it were just like, oh, these guys aren't connected, oh, they're learning a new system, they have all these new players. They're trying to incorporate. Obviously, Ben Simmons is a very kind of unique piece that you have to acclimate. I don't know. They're just not doing like NBA player things.

They're not doing the very basics of the kind of like their level of professionalism for where they should be. I don't want to say KD's a bad leader. I just think the nature of his game is such that on an island he can be great. He doesn't really need to incorporate anybody else into what he's doing to achieve greatness.

And so, like, how does he lead from that standpoint, right? Like, he's not dependent on these guys to operate. And it's not really his job to make the other guys better either. And so it's like, who's bringing this group together if it's not the best player? And it's damn sure not the coach. And, you know, we've seen what happened with Kyrie. tried to step up and be a leader in the past. That, you know, that didn't look great in Boston. And so my thing about the basic mistakes that are happening within the group, who's going to

address it and correct it? Like, why should we believe that these things are going to be fixed? You don't think that Kyrie is going to lead like an ayahuasca circle and everything's going to work itself out? He's going to lead something in a circle, but it won't be that. You know, You know, it won't be better team connectedness on defense. I just, you know, look, 28th, they're better than the 28th best team on defense in the NBA. I think we could safely assume that, just from the parts that are on the team. But when Rob talks about, you know, bird's eye view, what, like, what is the connective tissue of this team?

What's the identity? What's the point of being for this team? I don't see it. And, you know, Ben Simmons, look, I'm, you know, I've never been wanting to take a victory lap. However, you know, I was on Pablo and Dominique's ESPN joint, and they asked me, who's got more to prove this year? Ben Simmons and James Harden, I'm like, you mean a guy who's like, Ernst's. $600 million and one MVP's and been to double-digit All-Star games and all of this stuff like has more to prove than Ben Simmons?

Ben Simmons? That dude has a lot to prove. And if you cannot make the circumstances in Brooklyn work, all of this shooting, all of this ball dominance, excellent ball dominance, all of these pieces in place, to let you only do the things that you know how to do, limited as they are, and you still can't thrive and provide? Come on, man.

So he's followed out twice. He has 17 points on the season, 14 fouls. He's taken 13 total shots. Steve Nash has called him the engine of this team. It's really bad. Like, I just don't know when he, he's going to be a regular NBA basketball player because there is a really good player in there somewhere.

But just even like when he's on offense, he's an excellent pastor, but it just seems like he's telegraphing everything and just like everyone knows what's coming next because he's so scared to shoot. He had that one like, I so, I think it was Scotty Barnes on the block

and then like just hit like a weird like floating Kareem sky hook on him and everyone's like Ben Simmons back, baby. I'm like, is he? I don't even know what that shot was. It looks like something that I would throw up in a playground and I'm really bad at basketball. I've heard you compared to Ben Simmons in many capacities, you know? Yeah, scared to shoot.

Telegraphs has passed. He is better at this point as like a connector than as someone running offense for them. And to Steve Nash's, I don't know the context of that quote, but in the transition game, maybe he is the engine for them in terms of getting guys like Kyrie and Durant in spots to actually score versus having to handle,

but it's still really sloppy. and there's just, again, to our larger point about the leadership and the construction of this team, there just aren't many people in a position to look at Ben and say, you need to do X, Y, and Z, or look to De Ron Sharp and say, we need you to be in this place

because all of those leaders were either about to be fired or don't want to be there or almost traded. That's kind of what the top tier of Nets leadership looks like right now, and you're seeing the trickle-down effects of that everywhere in this roster. I have a question for you guys.

It's related to Ben Simmons and its ex-sacist. Like Ben Simmons got a no-brainer max rookie extension when the time came, right? I think we saw, like, Andrew Wiggins just got $100 million or something. Off of his max rookie extension is less than he made. Probably could have got more on the open market, but he's like, I'm comfortable here. I like winning championships, whatever. Got a hundred mill.

Right now, what is Ben Simmons on track to make on the open market off of a Max Rookie extension. This is unprecedented, y'all. Someone will give him a mid-level. Jesus Christ. I'm going to take the over on that. I'm going to take the over. Over, really? I think this season could be mostly

kind of a calamity for him, and I would still take the over. It only takes one. It just takes one team. It takes one coach to think I can get something different out of him in our spot. Yeah, because the truth is, like, we still haven't seen him in what Everyone I think assumes is his optimal setting, which is like being the engine on a transition

like heavy team. Whereas here he's asked to be PJ Tucker to work himself into an existing system with multiple stars. And I think they're hoping he could just evolve into this defensive junk or not who plays like a little bit of offense. But I just don't think that's like, I don't think that's where he'll thrive. I just don't think he'll get an opportunity to the question you're going to ask to be the guy that I'm suggesting.

Wait a second. Just listen. We got to stop with this. You just said his optimal usage is on a transition-heavy team. Who are the guys that enable a team to be transition heavy? These are like younger, more athletic-leaning kind of guys, great finishers. Are those guys usually the same guys that can space a floor, around Ben Simmons.

So what the hell with those type of guys doing in the half court next to this guy? Like, there are no good answers for his game. It doesn't exist. Transition wouldn't work either. The type of guys that thrive in that environment would suck in the half court next to Ben Simmons. This guy is a joke. Get him out of here, Rob. We are three games into the season.

Listen, when he ends up on the Kings in three years, and they're just the number 12 offense in the league. You'll really eat your words. Look at the Kings, though, right? Look at Fox. He got a max rookie extension. On his next deal, I guarantee you, he's going to make way more than Ben Simmons.

Oh, yeah, Fox is incredible so far. He's good. He might not get a max deal after this next one, right? Oh, yeah. I don't think he will. I think he's on a completely different trajectory than he used to be. Right.

but he's a way more useful player to Ben Simmons period let's see how the season pans out I think Ben is just like in this weird like limbo zone where he's not an actual functional because his zone has been so normal

the rest of his career I know I know well okay so it brings me to my last point of this very elongated section if we're breaking out the concern nominators concern ameters which team is

at the top right now. You have Kauai's long form load management. You have the new and improved Brooklyn Nets. You have Denver, which is 28th on defense, one above the Brooklyn Nets. The Timberwolves who are two and two against a murderer's role of OKC, Utah and the Spurs, or the Philadelphia 76ers, one in two, I believe, right now going for one and three tonight against the Raptors. Rob, who's at the top? The nets are at the top for me still. Don't trust them really at all. But since we've given them enough time,

I do want to give a quick shout out to the Sixers who, look, if you're playing James Harden 40 minutes in back-to-back losses, I don't know. I don't know, man. Again, another team that just has a lot to figure out in towards the mechanics of how they actually want to play and how this is all supposed to work together. The Sixers have a lot of questions to answer themselves.

They just, there's just a bit more of a solid base there to build from because of Joel, where everything else can kind of fall into place. I don't know what that base is for the Nets. In theory, it's Kevin Durand being awesome, but we're seeing him be awesome and they still are just getting punked by the Grizzlies. Yeah, the Sixers are scary

because I think they need to adjust the pie chart of ball domination, and James needs to really be decreased on that. And another problem, and, man, it's so crazy how this stuff just keeps cropping up. It's like James cannot, will not refuse this to be a threat when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. And we talked about his refusal to spot up.

Like the other night I was watching it, there was like four opportunities where he could have just caught and fired it. And he just didn't. I'm talking about a corner three-pointer. The best shot in the game of basketball refused to just catch and fire a corner three-pointer. Just take it. Just take the shot. Just take the shot.

You know? And that's not even to speak of cutting off of the ball. ball and, you know, making yourself a threat and occupying the sort of awareness of the defense while Maxie's trying to do something in a pick and roll or even in a one-on-one. He just doesn't do anything. And he's not good enough on the ball to dominate to have this, like, 33, 34, 35% usage that we're used to from him. He can't dribble past nobody.

So I think they, I don't know how they fix that. I don't know how they come to James when, you know, his freaking, is basically his godfather, his uncle, his, you know, his favorite uncle, Darryor Mory's in charge of the freaking team. You know, I don't know if it's that he can't get into the paint anymore. It seems like a lot of the times he just doesn't want to.

Like, I think he just prefers to, like, sit back at the top of the arc, LeBron, old LeBron style and just like dance a little bit and orchestrate from there. So the point where he's now developed this mid-range shot, almost because it seems like he just doesn't want to engage contact anymore. He's averaging six foul shots a game at this point, which is by far amongst his curve low since he's been a regular all-star player. And it just doesn't seem like he wants to get into the paint so much as that he can't. Like maybe there's a chicken and the egg thing there where it's just like he doesn't have the burst or whatever.

But like it just seems like he would just prefer to be his hanging back almost like a free safety. I mean, those are kind of the same thing. thing though, right? Like, if it's punishing to go inside because you can't create separation, then yeah, it's not very fun to do anymore. And when you're not drawn free throws the way you used to, and you're just kind of like flailing the ball up when you do try to get inside sometimes,

that's not very fun either. So I do think there is like just an element of him not being able to do some of it, and that leads to some of these habits that we're describing, but he should still be able to be an effective player and they should still be able to be a really effective team, even if he is in that mode. Like, they have the personnel to do that. They just need

to figure some stuff out. Right. All right, Rob, why don't you go with one of your choices? I would like to introduce you both to the new and improved and also mostly the exact same, just playing on a better team, Christian Wood. Yeah. Here are the superlatives off the top. Dallas has the best offense in the NBA so far, and the numbers have been absolutely wild when Christian Wood is on the floor.

I think he's the frontrunner for sixth man right now, and if his minutes get up, like, we may be talking about like a weird fringe All-Star case happening. And I think Luca and Christian Wood might already be the best pick and roll combination in the league. And that has much more to do with Luca than Christian Wood. But watch those two guys together

and everything Christian Wood can do in terms of being able to handle and pop and finish lobs. That's an incredibly dynamic pair. And we're already seeing some of that sing. I'm sure we're going to have a long conversation over the course of the year about like how much Christian Wood is playing and when. Because he's only playing 26 minutes a game right now,

which is kind of wild concerning the production he's putting up. But he's really impressed for a team that actually has some stuff to play for this year. Yeah, like for me, I didn't realize that he was going to have the confidence

just soon as he's open from three to just let it go. Just take it. I thought Moxie was going to be the pick and pop threat and Christian Wood would come in and be the vertical spacing kind of guy a lob thread at the rim.

And he's been both. He's like, I'm going to take these three. and I'm going to dunk on your head and suck in the defense that way as a lob threat. It's kind of crazy to watch. Now, you know, I think he still leaves much to be desired as a defender. And, you know, that's a caveat that must be said.

But I didn't think he was going to be this kind of, you know, all around threat in the pick and roll where defenses have to make horrible choices when trying to deal with this guy because he's shooting it with such confidence. And these threes are just hitting the box. bottom of the net, this ain't no rattling in, you know, barely go. Like, he is just splashing these threes.

If he could keep that up, this, this is, yeah, this is scary, crazy stuff. Optimal partner for Luca Dodgich. Like, Christophezegis, they had, what, the best offense of all time just by mere threat of Christop's shooting three-pointers. I don't think he ever was a very good three-pointer in the Dallas offense, but just being out there stretching the floor led to them having a historic offense. Christian Wood is actually shooting with success, and he's catching lobs, which are the two things you want around Luca. And also, like, he's facing up guys and, like, taking a couple guys off the dribble.

He still has that sort of skill to his game. And so, yeah, he's the perfect fit in theory. The question, though, becomes if you give him too much, is it too much for a guy like Christian Wood, who has worn out his welcome very quickly on five NBA franchises, whatever it is at this point? So, like, I wish I would see more of the pick and roll combination, though I get why Jason Kidd is being a little hesitant here. I mean, one way to make friends is just by finishing every damn lob they throw to you, you know, by getting guys assist, by being open, by making them look good. And as you're mentioning with the Chrisaps like comparison, by spacing the floor in that way, because he is hitting an incredible amount of threes. The shot looks great.

I don't think teams are responding to him on like a scouting report level in terms of being freaked out by the shot yet and if that ever starts to happen where they're overreacting to the threat of a Christian Wood three and guys like Luca are even more open all these other role players in Dallas are even more open

that's where things get really interesting because right now like they're just like Chris Deppes they're playing him exclusively at the five that's the right call I think defensively the best lineups like the ones that have looked the best so far are with him and Maxi together Like that's two guys who can kind of pop and kind of roll,

gives you a lot of options, a lot of flexibility, and you have the defensive cover of that. If they could get something with, again, with Luca, Maxi, and wood on the floor, and then you can plug and play, whether it's Storian Finney Smith, whether it's Reggie Bullock, whoever, Spencer Dinwiddie,

whoever those combinations are, like that's starting to look like a pretty formidable team. That's starting to look like a team that could really stretch some people out and challenge them. And yeah, we're coming off of a night where they lost to the Pelicans reserves. The defense still working properly. progress, unfortunately.

It is. But, all right, let's pivot now. Rob, you're up again here. Speaking of introductions, or I guess reintroductions in this case. You know, during our preseason, we had some things to say about the Young Spurs

and this core and whether there could be a potential star among them. I remember being very dismissive. We were a little dismissive. We were a little dismissive. And one of the great regrets of my life, being a Devin Vassell guy, was not putting my foot.

looked down and saying, you know what, Devin Vessel could really be something. Because I kind of slotted him as like a high-level role player to watch over the course of his career. And he's been something else entirely for San Antonio so far. And I think he's crossing a really interesting threshold, right? Because going from a nice young player, potentially a role guy for the Spurs,

to right now co-leading San Antonio and scoring in minutes, putting up basically 20 points a game, co-leading this team with Kelden Johnson. And I think most crucially, right now he's creating exactly half of his shots for himself. And that's the kind of pivot where if Devin Fissel is that guy, and he's also averaging almost five assists a game, if he can be that kind of creator where he's not just shooting threes anymore,

not taking spot shots, right now he's getting into the mid-range, he's running pick and roll, he's busting up switches. I didn't know he could cook like that. This is a really kind of interesting player to watch and a prospect who could be much more for the spurs than certainly idiots like us laid him out to be a, in our preseason preview. Wise, do you believe in the mighty three and one San Antonio Spurs?

I believe that they're not going to be a pushover in the way that I assume that they would be. Not in that they wouldn't try hard, but just the talent wouldn't be there to give an adequate resistance on a night-to-night basis against the best teams. Yeah, I believe I was definitely wrong about that. beyond resistance. No, I don't believe in this team. Yeah, I mean, it happens pretty much every year where one or two or three of these teams

just play above their heads. And we're all like, did we miss something here? Are the Utah Jazz the best team in the NBA? Which of these teams are for real or not real? And it ends up that none of these teams are for real. To the point where I think we were talking about the Wizards last year in the same situation. and here they are, three and one.

But the Wizards, yet again, the Spurs, and also our friends in Utah, all teams are overachieving to start with. Rob, do you have any faith in any of these teams to be anywhere near they are now and let's say a month from now? Didn't you literally just mock this premise and now you're serving it to me? The question has to be answered for posterity. You just want us on tape making dumb predictions about potentially bad teams. That's what's happening here.

I'm just serving it up, man. This is what the host does. All right, I will say, of the teams that we thought to be bad that right now are good, I can't believe I'm saying this. I do think we do need to see how teams catch up to San Antonio in transition. Whoa. Because they're playing super fast right now. Yeah.

Popovich is letting these guys run, letting them get out there, letting them play. And they've been catching teams off guard. And if they can keep doing that, if they can keep doing that, if they can play at the kind of pace the team just struggled to keep up with, when it's not just like, look, the Timberwolf slept walked into their game against the Spurs and almost lost by 30, just because they were not paying attention to what was happening in front of them. Now the teams kind of get the sense of what San Antonio is and how they're going to play.

Maybe that changes. Maybe it doesn't. But if they can stay ahead of teams, I think they're probably the most interesting of this group. Yeah, I guess we shouldn't be surprised just because of the institutions at play here, both in Utah in San Antonio. We don't know much about Will Hardy, but we've heard good things about just what he could do. And it just seems like... He's got a great reputation in the media.

It just seems like teams that are too competent are always going to struggle to tank as well as they should. And I don't know if it's too early to worry about whether or not any of these teams will be bad enough. But I do think history would show that, like, The teams that do end up bottoming out and getting the high-level draft picks are the ones that are just like institutionally. There's something wrong there. And so, like, I almost have more faith in the team like the Kings, who is ostensibly more talented, finding their way to Victor Webminiama than a team like the Spurs because they do things almost too well at a certain point.

No, stop. Stop. The Kings are much better than the Spurs. I'm talking about the threshold of, like, which of these currently overachieving teams. is going to randomly beat regular season opponents who are on a road trip and not really giving them their best effort. The spurs are a textbook case to do that.

But they're also going to trade Yaka Pertil in a month. I just think the Wizards are more talented than the other two teams on this list. And I think they're motivated. Like, they seem to, like, really want to play hard. And they play pretty hard for their coach. And so, you know, I think the Wizards just on a talent level will be able to do it.

However, I do want to say, man, isn't our system broken in that? Just in America? We won't get into that on this pod. We're worried that the Jazz and the Spurs are ruining their tank jobs. You know, like, instead of having competence at every single tier of the league to where we could turn on our league pass and watch competence, every single night up and down the board. You know, we know inevitably the jazz are going to let go a few of their pieces

that are really good players and get more freaking draft picks for it. Right? We know the Spurs are going to probably unleash some guys. We know there's going to be some chicanery with the injury report. Instead of dudes just going out hooping and doing the things that they love and we love them for it. You know, that's just an aside about the perils of our infrastructure. Excuse me.

Do we even make things in America anymore? Of our incentives in the NBA. That was a slip of the tongue. But, yeah, just so I could get off of my high horse and soapbox about the purity of the game. Yeah, I do think the Wizards are definitely the best of this group. Yeah, no. Also, a team actually wants to win. I posted the tweet after the jazz.

beat the nuggets. I was like, look, man, the smack dab in the middle of the process sixers. Not only did they start three and no, they beat the freaking heat in the process, led by Michael Carter Williams. Like, that's a thing that happened. Tony Roton, you know, that's the other side of the Waz All-Stars, by the way. Tony Rodin? I had a fetish for Tony Rodin

back in the days. It was weird. You can bury those receipts. I wouldn't be digging that up. that's happened. So we see this happen in the beginning of the season with levels of talent all the time. But like, man, you can't compare that process Sixers roster to what the jazz roll out every night. There's absolutely no comparison whatsoever.

Yeah. Well, Lori Marketing is going to be an all-star again. So the finisher is back. But speaking of other guys that are kind of playing above their head here, because Vassell is one of the young guys. I think that is really just kind of popping off in the early goings here. Jalen Green,

all of a sudden, just looking like Jahn Moran, but without the springs at the basket, but a better jump shot. Like, oh my God, 24 points again. What is he as fun as Al Perun Shengoon, though? Is he?

Shangoon had like 20 and 10 the other night, too, but hasn't played lately. I tried to tell y'all about Jalen Green's April numbers. You weren't having it. You weren't hearing me. 48% from three, just an absolute blur on the core. and now this team is not good and they won't be good.

They're already arguing with each other on the bench. Like the defense is awful. Kevin Porter Jr. is in there for the long haul. There's a mess there, but Green, dueling with Morant on what was it? Saturday or Sunday night was awesome. And he looks already. Like, we were talking about Barnes. We were talking about Mowgli, Cade from that draft cast class.

He's right there behind them. Any other young guys, maybe was, or Rob, that jumped out to you, to start with? Well, you know, I got to bring up Ben Mathur, my Haitian brother. He has looked sensational going forward. He's already on track to be the greatest Haitian in the history of the league. Not that the competition is very stiff. It's literally Scala, BCA, Nerland's Noel, Olden Polynes, and Dort.

That's the list. But, no, no, I've been really, it's been really cool to watch and play because he's another guy who, you know, because Carlisle is Carlisle. still has the kid coming off of the bench. But when he comes in, he's like a freaking bat shot out of hell. He's ready to hoop, and he's going at guys. And so it's been really cool to watch Mathriman play. His minutes have been a treat so far. Yeah, other rookies, too, Jaden Ivy and Jalen Duren in Detroit, I think, have both

kind of popped. And look, I really get the appeal with Ivy right out of the gate. Do you just make space, gets by people. It's so easy to see how he could be a really high-level NBA player. Jalen Dern doesn't have as much on his plate as just kind of like an 18-year-old big, but he plays with a lot of force for a guy who's that thin and that young. So I think he's jumped out pretty early, but there's been a lot of young guys in all kinds of roles,

even like Jalen Noel with the Wolves, who's always had some juice, but like it's kind of establishing himself. We talked about Trey Murphy already with the Pelicans, who has looked great with the stars and maybe even better without them, like feels like a real like Cam Johnson kind of candidate. And Bull Bull, who is what he's doing real, who knows, but

Bull Bowl is doing more Bull Bowl things than he ever has before and I'm loving it. Kid can't play. Yeah. Ben Chero already looks like. And Carol, sorry, excuse me,

don't even, I saw Rob's eyes light up. I'll tell you once, I'll tell you twice, Justin, come on. I learned. I caught it eventually. I can't believe we considered anybody else going first overall.

He just already looks incredible. But I think that's something that transitions to something wise you want to talk about, just about the overall talent level, right? Yes, it's crazy, honestly, watching the Spurs, watching the Jazz, watching even OKC. It's just at a different level of when I first got league pass in around 2012, either 2011 or 2012. And it was so I could watch the heat play every single game because I just wanted to follow that story.

right and I was like fuck it I got to I got to pay for this and the dregs of the league back then you just can't compare it there's just no comparison to the level of play even at the very bottom of the league right even if you want to get cute and say the lakers are one of the worst teams in the league LeBron and Anthony Davis are on that team you know like and that's again that's not to speak of the jazz and the spurs and you know uh even Houston who their young guys have absolutely no idea what they're doing out there. They don't know what it takes to win. They don't really have a sense of that at all.

But they are so talented. They can play with guys, you know? Like, Kevin Porter is a supremely talented dude. I don't know that he's always got the best intentions when he's going about his business on the court. But he's so freaking talented. And it's just, you know, you watch certain teams that were helmed by Ish Smith over the years, you know, and we kind of knew what the point of those teams were, which was to lose every single game. You can't compare that to the bottom of the league this year. Pelicans legend, Dan. Watch it.

It's really cool. It's really cool to watch, honestly. Like, these guys, like, and what it means is that when the jazz are up to play your ass, right? Like they're trying hard, they're efforting, and they're giving it every single thing that they have. You cannot just show up and beat them. You have to actually play well to beat that team. Which is just, you know, that just was not the case, man, even six years ago. Yeah, we're seeing that everywhere.

Like Indiana, Orlando, like these teams, even when they're losing, are playing pretty tough. Like, they're making you earn it in ways that, look, may not even last the entire season. Maybe we're having a very different conversation come March. It is a long-ass season. Long-ass season, but it's good to see this out of the gate. It's good to see even these teams that we have written off and talked about as Victor Webbenyama candidates

having something to play for, having some pride in the way they play, trusting some of their veteran guys to show the young players on their team, how to get things done, how to compete against these teams that have more talent than you. That's hardening to see, even if it's ultimately a doomed errand

in the name of getting the highest draft pick. Well, what do we think about this idea that because everything, every team is much deeper now, that depth matters more now. Because I think coming off of the finals, you heard a lot of people try to talk about like, oh, maybe that is what's going to be the decider now where you have teams like the Warriors, like the Young Corps. You have a deep team like the Celtics. And honestly, I was pretty resistant to it, if only because coming out of the finals, more recently, but just in general, it feels like people want to jump on the next trend or extrapolate. the results of the finals to suggest that this is the most dominant force and this is the key to winning.

Big men, they're the key to winning and then they're not. And then it's like small ball and then it's like, well, maybe sort of. I wonder if this year it's starting to matter more because I also wonder if given the take files

we'll see more running in transition, which will require more bodies on the court. And or just like, I don't know. I'm wondering, Rob, if you see any correlation there that a team, not only can, or maybe it's just as simple as, like, a team can't win with the big three model,

like in Waz's glory days of watching the Heat games with Tony Fian, Tony, Fian, Torn. What was it? Legend. Who are you talking about? The dude that used to do the heat broadcast. Oh, the broadcaster, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, kind of didn't know what the hell he was talking about. I was like, are you spazzing while you try to say Tony Douglas?

Like, what is happening right now? Tony Douglas, on the broadcast. Yeah. Tony Douglas, who Nick fans used to call Tony Struggless, shouts to him, man. He doesn't deserve that on this podcast. Tony Douglas has been a good day out there somewhere. Leave him alone.

He's got that extra E and everything. But yeah, no, I wonder if, like, the Big Three model can't exist anymore in the way that we knew it because there's just so much overall talent that you can't actually just fill in your roster with, like, these just stopgap sort of players. there better not be any redundancies in your big three. They better be extremely complimentary of each other and so that the holes don't matter.

You know, your big three better be able to give you ball handling, shooting, and freaking rim protection, shock creation. It better do everything in that big three if that's the case. You know, if not, it's going to be tough for you because these teams are going to be able to explore, your weaknesses when it comes down to it

and your lack of depth, your inability to sort of, you know, patch up these holes is going to come for you. Yeah, and ideally the teams that we've seen try to straddle this line

between having stars and depth. I think the Warriors are probably at the top of that list, the most expensive roster in NBA history. We're seeing some of the costs of that, you know, of Draymond Green

not getting his extension because you have to draw the line somewhere financially. And, you know, the dynamic there is not great. The Warriors, after watching that game last night, they're not winning shit without Jemond Green, fam. Yep.

They're not guarding people without Jemond Green. That's just facts. They also need a guy to just push guys when they go up for dunks. A lot of that happened in this season. I don't know what is happening with Traymond Green. Tony Fiorentino, by the way, is what I was reaching for. Legend. Fiorentino.

See? Enunciate. I'm proud. All right. Just briefly here before we go, because we're going to, time. I just wanted to bring up Pascal Seacum. I have him officially on a guy watch because I think the difference between the difference between the Raptors being just another team in the east, a good team and taking a next step and maybe even considering, as we talked about in our preseason pod, maybe even recalibrating and building around Scotty Barnes is having a top tier superstar.

And I don't know if Seacom is ultimately going to be that guy, but he's definitely played like that over the first four games for the Raptors. 23, 9, 26, 23, 8, and 9, 37, 12, and 11, I believe, against the Nets. The shot has just looked incredible of, like, the numbers look bad. Statistically, both his free throw percentage and his 3-point percentage are not good,

but just coming out of his hand, it just looks way better than it ever has. And I don't know, he's just like, he's been playing on another level, and I wanted to give him a shot up because, like, I don't know who's guarding that dude. Against the Nets in particular. I know we've said the Nets are a bad defense,

but as soon as Royce O'Neill gets on him, he's taken him in the post, and he's brutalizing that way. He's taking the Claxon off the dribble when he gets switched on to him. Then Ben Simmons comes, and he's just, like, making the easy pass to the next guy

and distributing. It's just like, I don't know if I discounted, like, what more this guy had left in him. It's probably because of what a dramatic leap he's taken already in his career, but I wouldn't put it past him if he does take that next step to

front line he was already an all-MBA guy but like all-MBA guy with a bullet who you can count on to go to in the clutch for a bucket. He's just a badass player. And he keeps adding those elements to where I mean he's one of the better mismatch hunters we have in the game right now in terms of forwards who can punish people across the board

as you laid out just in across positions. And he plays on a perfect team for that because the Raptors, because they have so many like-sized guys and because they have so much off-ball action, they make you want to switch. Like, they are pulling you into that trap, and Seacum is the one who springs it,

because he will post up anybody, and as you said, like, the numbers aren't good from three right now, but, like, the turnaround in the post is good. Like, the mid-range pull-up is good. Like, all that in-between stuff is there for him in a way that, like, that is the starship. Like, that is what you want of a primary ball handler.

In Toronto, this season in particular, there's been lots of opportunities for their forwards to really eat as creators. And I think we're going to see that more and more over the course of the year as, you know, as Barnes is getting even more comfortable in that capacity, as Yakum is just like, hasn't even better sense of how to use all these weapons around him.

I think he's in that category. I mean, he was an all-NBA guy for a reason. Yeah, I was skeptical of their cause like Justin because I was like, who's going to be this all-star type of player for them? Until Scotty Barnes becomes the next Kauai Leonard. We're not touching that on this. It's going to be on Pascal.

And I think in the past, the key to neutralizing him was sort of stonewalling his paint stuff, right? If you could wall them off from the paint, if you could put a guy that could just stand up to him strength-wise and not let him get to those beautiful hook shots and scoop shots and all the stuff that he does when he's within five or six feet. And like, yeah, Pascal, go do your work outside.

You kind of neutralize the guy. guy. But all of that playmaking that he's doing now, and I think he's legit, feels like a threat from all three levels. You know, the way the ball is coming off of his hands, it feels like you have to guard him out to three. And so, you know, it's opening all this other stuff up. And it's cool. Like, it's really cool to see a guy that was seen as a project when he came in, you know, justified the investment that the Raptors put into him. And now, like, taking it even further than that, Like, this is crazy. It's really dope to see, really dope developmental story.

Yeah, it's weird because I feel like the difference between superstars and just, like, really good players is that all those guys make all the hard things look easy. Like, all of the hard things still look hard for Siakum. They do. It's one of the most, like, crazy things I've seen where it's almost like he's like a working man superstar at this point. But some of those new ones. Who call what they need?

Yeah. Exactly. So shouts to Pascal Seaccombe. Congrats to Toronto. Now stop saying mean things about our podcast. All right. That's it for us this week. Thank you to Eddie Ocampo for filling in on production.

We'll be back. Same time, same place next week. We'll see it.