The Ringer NBA Show - Five Big Questions As Trade Season Begins | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos answer five questions as the unofficial start to the NBA trade season nears. They discuss teams in the East, such as the Knicks and Raptors, and whether they should be looking to buy or sell their pieces (02:42). Then, they look out West to talk about the state of the Trailblazers (22:02) and Lakers (31:25). After, they talk about players in the trade market that would make the biggest impact for a new team (36:10), and whether teams should be wary of trading for a star (45:17). Finally, they end the show by opening up the suggestion box (61:46). Email us at [e-mail] Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Missa Kwanga and I'm Ryan Hunt and we co-host Stadio, a football podcast, on the Ring of Podcast Network. Twice a week, Musa and I talk about the goings on in men's and women's football around Europe and sometimes around the world. We like to zoom in, we like to zoom out, we like to make some silly references.

So if you like soccer or football, make sure you search for Stadio, a football podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Think we got it? Yep, that's good. And welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier, and we are, are recording at the ass crack of dawn with Big Wise and Rob Mahoney,

just so Wise can, what, go to Ralph's a little bit earlier today? No, I... All right, I'm going to tell on myself here. I wanted to go watch the World Cup semis at a place, and I wanted to have a little bit of time to get there. However, my friend already backed out this morning, so we did this for no reason. I like how you proposed it is.

if it was like an official thing. Like you had to go for emergency dental care or something. I said, look, is it possible? Can we do this a little earlier so I can go watch, you know, freaking Mbapé? Sorry, guys. This is what the people want, though, is Justin complaining that we have to record a podcast at 9.45 a.m. Listen, I am not a morning person.

It's very chilly in Los Angeles. It's tough to get out of bed. Some of these houses are just made out of paper mache. So, like, I'm constantly freezing throughout the day. so I need to be nestled in the bed for as long as possible. Also, not being a morning person is very northeast coastal person of you, Justin. I know. I've officially turned. I had to buy a winter jacket the other day just to go back to the East Coast.

So I've officially gone to the other side. Hey, before we get started here, the ringer.com has a new feature out that I believe all three of us participated in in some form of fashion. NBA rankings. The Ringer.com. You will find the top 100 rankings that we're going to update semi-frequently featuring Rob and a couple other people on staff. Tyler Parker's NBA trade or league pass value where he ranks NBA players based on entertainment value.

And sooner or later, Bill Simmons is going to chime in with trade value. So check that out. Very beautiful design. Great stuff from all of our staff and all the designers here. But today we are going to kick off NBA trade season. because tomorrow Thursday the 15th is the unofficial start of trade season in the NBA. That's when 90% of the players become trade eligible. So we are going to like we typically do during this time, talk about five big questions as trade season begins.

Rob, are you excited for the trades to start flying? It's the most wonderful time of the year, you know? I'm just, I'm going down my list. I'm checking it twice. so making sure all these teams get exactly what they need this trade season. We're jingling, we're jangling. We're making trade rumors. Let's do it.

First question I have on the docket here. Number one, which of these four East teams should be thinking sell, not buy? And so I bring this up in part because the East is kind of a mess here outside of some of the top teams. It's unlike the West, it's very defined at the top, but the rest is pretty garbled. And so I have the four teams as the Toronto Raptors who are on a bit of a skid lately Can't really score in the half court. The Washington Wizards

Wazni's New York Knickerbockers and the Miami Heat Waz. Do any of these four teams jump out as you as a team that is probably better off in the long term selling and playing for the future? You know what jumped out at me at first is these are four teams

who perpetually refuse to do the blow up. especially when you talk about Toronto, the Wizards, and Miami. The Knicks, you know, they got a new regime in there. They decided to, like, try to draft some talent and develop talent and be a normal NBA team. However, Toronto and Miami particularly have been teams that in the past faced, you know, rebuilds down the barrel of a gun. And, you know, just straight up was like, no, we're not doing it, right? And Washington, to their detriment, have been.

have done that a lot in the past, you know, chasing seven seeds, not trading Bradley Bill, that kind of thing. And, you know, the Knicks have done it for like 25, 30 years. So just like, yeah, let's get Eddie Curry in here. Let's get Steve Francis in here. Let's do the most ridiculous crazy thing. So that's what jumped out at me at first. But, you know, the team that sticks out, and I think it should be obvious to everybody's the Knicks. I think this, like this idea that I should have Julius Randall sopping up minutes and, you know, not playing my young kids and seeing what they got and being just a normal rebuilding team,

not chasing, maybe chasing a Donovan Mitchell, maybe chasing a quote-unquote superstar who comes onto the market, but really staying in your lane as a team that's trying to, in the acquisition phase of a rebuild. Yeah, man, I think the Knicks need to, yeah, figure out what to do with Julius Randall, get it in Tom Tibado's head,

that the kids should be playing, even if it's not happening fast and even if it's not delivering immediate wins. But the Knicks definitely stick out in my head. Toronto is just the most fascinating because I think they have them...

What do you think Fleshman would do? Do you think he would want the Nix to... As a fan, or if he was in the front office, if he was the team doctor, what are you asking you here? Use the team. Yeah. Also, you expect us to cover sports.

and pop culture on this podcast? Is that a thing we can do? No, we're not allowed to do that. No, so, Rob, where are you on this list? Is it the Knicks for you? Are you with Dr. Fleischman? Do you think that they need to make a big splash? I mean, the Knicks need to,

they need to start thinning out for sure. I think where that conversation gets thorny is Fred Katz had a report for the athletic that the Knicks were pretty open to the idea of like attaching Emmanuel quickly into trades to get off of Evan Forney for example, that's not it. That's not what you should be doing at all.

And so, like, yes, they should be selling. Yes, they should be, like, trying to find homes for whether it's Fournier, whether it's Randall, whatever pieces you want to go through that roster. But you can't be given up your good young players in the process. You know, like, that's where they, that's where they're kind of stuck right now. And ultimately, they're a team that kind of needs to be reimagined more around Brunson. And depending on your, your level of confidence in Barrett in particular, I think pretty confident.

I think he just needs space. Like, he needs room to really be able to do something. And they've never really been able to give him that yet. And so the closer they can get to that timeline to, okay, we can actually get some real room on the floor for our best young driver. You know, I think Brunson is probably the best most accomplished driver on that team. But in terms of a guy who can really get in the lane and make things happen, you want to see what RJ Barrett can do. And we've only been able to see, I think, shades of it so far. So just for the sake of getting out of your own way, developmentally speaking,

for a team that really isn't going anywhere, they jump out. They jump right off the page for sure. Yeah, I think they're really an interesting case study because they should be ostensibly star-chasing. Like, and they probably are in the background, just hoping desperately that a CAA client will be disgruntled enough to want to go to New York

and play for this dysfunctional franchise. But like, until that happens, like, what is the move? Like, do you just get a new coach and hope that he can make more sense of this roster? Was, are you like, are you more willing to even trade whatever it takes to get rid of Raina because maybe that will make sense of a roster and then maybe you see

what you have in RJ Barrett fully or what? Like do you bottom out again, try to get a top pick? What is the in-between move until we get this magical trade that solves everything? This is where the LaFamilla dynamics of the CIA situation with the Knicks begin to rear their ugly heads. Because I think in a different sort of GM and coach relationship, a GM could just tell the coach to shut the hell up. You're my subordinate. I'm trading vets away and you're playing young guys because that's all that's going to be left, right?

However, I don't believe that that's the relationship between coach and GM here in New York City. And so they're not going to do that. They're not going to make moves without Tibbs blessing. They're not going to force Tibbs' hands. Like, we've seen coaches complain about. Oh, yeah, you know, I got these guys and I need a vets. And we've seen coaches complain about that before

because GM's incentives, and this is a classic trope, their incentives are not aligned with the game the game. It's more aligned with what's going to be the case in two to three years down the line. Whereas a coach, and naturally so, is living and dying with each and every outcome, every single night. And so it's hard for him the sacrifice wins in the now

and the misery that losses. bring um with this idea that maybe one day these kids are going to be competent NBA players and so i think in in a front office where the coach and GM were weren't so damn buddy buddy and familial they could do something different but it feels something in the second complicating part because we talked about Toronto is that i don't think anybody i think it'd be reasonable to say that Julius Randall is a better NBA player than OG Ananoi. However, OG Ananoi immediately makes every single contender better. I don't think that's the case for Julius Randall, and it makes it very hard to move him.

You clearly haven't looked at our top 100 rankings. The Randall hate was thick. I'll say that. Yeah, plenty of healthy Julius Randall debate for exactly that reason, right? he is a guy who is useful in a very select context and ultimately is like playing too big a role for the Knicks for what is ultimately healthy for their ecosystem and would be playing too big a role for a lot of teams

he would potentially be traded to. So I'm with you. And like that's one of the reasons why Toronto is one of the most interesting teams on the board because all of their core guys are useful to contenders, are useful to good teams. And I think could be useful to rebuilding or kind of middle of the road teams too as good vets,

guys who bring a lot of, who have versatile and flexible games. Toronto is probably the hardest team to parse of these four to me because there's like the big question of can they even afford to keep this core together long term and if they did where would it even go? And a lot of that depends on how good Scotty Barnes can be. And then there's the smaller question of do they just need like a couple of veterans to get through this season and make it a little better?

You know, just like guys to shore up around the edges because, you know, that's a team that has struggled because they've had guys in and out of the lineup. but they've also struggled because they're just really shallow. Like they just do not have much depth to pull from. And so if you can get them one more big or one more guy who can shoot, could that be enough to kind of get them more into the thick of the east as opposed to really kind of scraping the play-in group right now? So the Raptors are an interesting case study here

because I think if you were to ask us a couple of weeks ago, I think we were pretty high on their early start. Siakum looked good. They've had a couple injuries since. and I'm just a little bit more confused long term what the vision is because Scotty Barnes in particular just seems out of place

and if anything it just seems like he is a little upset with where he is in kind of the grand scheme of the Raptor's future. I don't know if that's because he's being asked to play more of a diminished role. I don't know what's going on there. He's supposed to be the next Kauai

so I can understand why he's annoyed by his diminished role. You can drink at home. It's early, but you can drink. Yeah, it's very early. I think we need to start asking some of the similar questions we were asking in preseason, yet again, in part because what Rob brought up, a lot of these guys have contracts coming up in the near future. And so, I, was, I don't know, where do you land on this?

Now that you've seen a couple months of year two, Scotty Barnes, are you as ready to be like, yeah, let's build around him and Seacom or like, what is the future, I guess? I mean, full disclosure, I've been to sell the pieces for parts since Squathe. I left. Actually, that's a lie. After the, like, because Kyle was still there. So it was like, oh, okay, Kyle's still there. He's the greatest player in the history of the franchise. I think it's a nice thing to keep competence around him to be like, Kyle, we're not

going to put you around a rebuild. We're not just going to ship you off to the highest bidder. I think, carmically, that was a nice thing. They're showing in the bubble that season was freaking legitimately impressive. You know, I thought they were just, you know, just the coaching job, the effort, all of that. But basically, outside of that, I thought they should sell the stuff for parts, basically since, you know, and I respect the idea. And because I have a connection to a lot of Toronto Raptors fans online, I like the idea that the fans who really love this team, get to

watch a team that can win any game that they're in, right? Not that they're championship contenders, but they never turn on a game and think, Our team has no chance to beat the guys that are in front of them. I think there's a value in that. However, man, you know, it's been two years and change. It might be time to pull the plug. Hold on, yeah. I'm not over.

I have a connection to Raptors fans online. Like, what are we talking to here? Well, no, there's just a lot of people on Twitter, like, who I've known for a minute. Okay, so what happened was, like, I was, like, the only, this is a thing that, happens in our job and online. It's like I was the only person who thought that they would go to the finals the year that they got Kauai. I was literally, I think there was a lot of Boston chatter that year.

I forget, I was like, bro, the Raptors have easily, they got the best, most, the team makes sense. There's no holes on this team. They're going to go to the finals. And I did that really early. And, you know, fans are like, partisans are like, you say something nice about my team. I will lift you up and venerate you. You do the opposite.

We all know that. We have the keys to the city. Yes, yes, yes. I've been into a lot of enthusiasts since, you know, 2019 or whatever. I just think this stuff has run its course. So when Raptors fans lash out of you now, that's from like a deep-seated sense of abandonment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. The thing about the Raptors, though, is like even if they do move some of those guys, I don't think they would be in cell mode per se. Like, they would be, like, can we trade OG An An An Anobie, for example, for other good players. Can we trade Fred Van Vleet for other good players? Like they would be looking to move laterally or up potentially. I don't think they're really a candidate to like,

you know, trade veterans for really young guys and tear down, even if they are ostensibly built around Scotty Barnes, which is not the case yet. Good players. Like who can I, can I interest you in a Josh Hart perhaps and some accrued remand's adding on? Can I interest you in any of that, Rob? And a moose.

That type of. of Jeremy Grant potentially. Yeah. Look, there's lots, there's lots of options on the board. Like, honestly, like,

this is a team to your point was, like, they really can beat anybody any night. They really are so versatile. They just need like a little more room to breathe to make that stuff work. Well, what do we think big picture about just their general approach here,

about just getting like five, six, eight guys who can handle a little bit and do a little bit of everything? Like, are we worried at all that that has certain limitations? because it sounds like part of what you guys are saying is like they had a true center every now and then it might make at least certain matchups maybe a little bit easier. I mean, if one of those guys could shoot better, if one of those guys was Trey Murphy, is that a big deal? You know, like, I think they rose like five inches every time I see him.

Do you think he's like bringing the hem up on his shorts or on his jersey? Because like the arms just keep getting longer and longer. See, my thing with the six eight guys who run around and, you know, they're all terrain. and all of that is you still need reliable shock creation. Like all of that stuff around, you know, Donovan Mitchell, Damian Lillard, Steph Curry, you know, these guys that can reliably get you shock creation and create advantages, that's when that stuff becomes magnified.

Like, just in and of itself, you get what you got in the last few games, which is stuck in the mud half-court offense, right? And so I don't mind the, the approach. But, you know, there was whispers that they were interested in Donovan Mitchell. There was whispers that they might have gotten in on a Bradley Bill kind of thing if that would have opened up.

And so I think that's where it becomes, you know, a more tenable route for building your roster is when you got somebody, when you have offense, reliable offense. I think Occam's Raptor will probably end up being that I. Jesus Christ. Somebody must stop this man immediately. Oh, boy. I think ultimately we will get to a point

where we say, I don't know if Scotty Barnes in Pascal Seaccom should really exist in the same offense unless one of them develops a significantly better job shot. And like maybe that happens with Barnes. Maybe they augment them with the specific pieces they need there.

But like, I think they occupy too much of a similar role and there's two similar type of players that it's ideal for both of them. to be alongside each other. I don't think they need to figure that out now, but I think long-term, that might be their biggest question on the board.

Yeah. That's what it makes them hard to judge because how much of what Scotty Barnes is going through right now is just a young player in a slump and kind of in a weird rut, or how much of it is something kind of endemic to the build of what they have and the opportunities he's getting and wouldn't change unless you make some kind of move or shuffle the deck or make a trade. Like that,

that's a real question you have to consider at this point, because Barnes, he's been in such a weird space and the team as a result has been in a pretty weird space. Right. Anything about the heat or the wizards here? I feel like both of them, despite what we might want for them, are probably pot committed to the now

unless the Wizards, for some reason, just the side of the Bradley Beale thing isn't for them anymore. Yeah, I think the Wizards are, at least from our perspective on the outside as people who aren't invested in the team, feel like pretty much, maybe even an easier call than the Knicks

in terms of being a team that should be selling. And some of that is, look, they had been doing okay, but they're on a stretch right now where they've lost 10 of 11 games and some of that has been not having guys in the lineup,

but like, look, the facts on the ground are, they're just a couple games out of really being in the tank race right now. And Chrisaps, Sforzingis is playing the best basketball he's basically ever played, and they should completely be open to trading him

if there's a team on the board who wants him. Like, that's where they are. That's what they should be looking at. And Kyle Kuzma, I know for like there's no way he's taking that player option next season for $13 million. There's no way he should. Or if he should, his agent, like we need to have a conversation about what the market is for Kyle Kuzmuk. That's a really attractive player who should be interesting to a lot of teams.

And the idea that the Wizards would sit and hold on him because he is good, because they might be okay over the course of this season. I just don't see the path there. I don't see what goes. If that's the route you're going to take, where are you? ending up that's anywhere of value, even in just like a, can we be a good team for a long time? Like, I just don't really see that outcome for them either, much less be a contender. Also, the heat have never been opposed to bringing to Miami. They've never been opposed like, oh, we're a five or six seat.

All right, cool. We got to, you know, trim the margins to not go crazy with the luxury tax. I know a lot of ink has been spilled about Andy Ellsberg and how much of a genius he is with that stuff. But it's true. They do it every single time. Every time. Every time. So they're just going to do those snips, snips.

They're not going to do some, you know, figure out a home for Lowry and get rid of Caleb Martin. They're not going to do that, you know, like they're going to just do the stuff around the edges. They feel like they're on the other side of the standings game too. Or we're saying the Wizards are only X games out of the tanking race. The heater only like three and a half games out of a home court spot. And do I think they're going to get all the way there? No.

to be better than 10th place where they currently sit. Yeah. If they sold, what would Pat Riley do at his end of the season press conference? He couldn't charismodically talk about like how they only start chasing. And that's the biggest thing that they do. And they're not going to change that, et cetera, et cetera. It's always great. It's always great theater. But yeah, no, he cared too much about core exercises.

They don't really get into the rebuild stuff. All right. Are you into the core? Is this anti-core strength? Justin hates calisthenics? now that you what is this guy doing today? I just think like all of heat culture is them just like working out really rigorously. And it's just like, all right, we get it.

All right. Number two, let's flip to the West here. Fewer teams I could find here in part because everyone is so mashed in the middle. And also because it just feels like a lot of these teams, it's pretty clear cut that they're in for the now. You have teams like even the Timberwolves who made splashy trades in order to get in on the mix this year, but didn't. Or you have a team like the Grizzlies of the Pelicans who very clearly. you ready to win now. But I want to bring up the Blazers,

a team that is now 15 and 12, fifth in the West, but is on a bit of a hot streak. I think it can go one way or another. The Vance Maccasters don't love them is particularly on defense, but they've had some injuries. So like,

I don't know where they are, Rob, do you see a clear pathway for the Blazers this season? Are they more of a seller? Or would you be buying, do you believe in this team, basically? They're definitely, I mean,

they're definitely buying. whether we would want them to or not. And honestly, I think they should be. Like, if you have a guy like Dame Lillard committed to your team and under contract, and he's saying, let's push for this thing, then you push for this thing. And Jeremy Grant's been good enough. Anthony Simons has been good enough. Like, the contours of the team can be a little shaky at times,

but I like the length that they have. I like some of the defensive performances they've been able to put together. They're just another one of these groups that hasn't been able to, like, fully stabilize. Yeah, let me just give the counter there. I think, like, you could still be committed to Lillard. long term, but maybe play this out a little bit more over the course of two, three seasons, as opposed to maybe like taking advantage of it now. I think it ultimately comes down to like, do you think a Shaden Sharp next year is going to give you what you need that you could potentially

get on the trade market? Do you believe in the long term future of the Lillard Simon's back court that you're not like, do you want to trade picks in order to be good now? Do you want to trade a sharp to be good now? Or do you want to play this out over three years, hope that Lillard could still be good at that point? Not good. By the way, Wai's favorite, Shaden Sharp, I just want to take a little, just a slight victory lap. I was really high on the pick.

I thought he should have been at least a third pick in the draft, but that's neither here nor there. But I think you're on to something. I think if Dane is going to die a blazer, you know, you don't necessarily have to take an immediate approach if that's going to be the case. And, you know, but I think the truth remains the same with Portland. They need to get some big wings. I like Josh Hart.

They have some. They have some now. They do. They do. I like Josh Hart a lot. I like Anthony Simons. You know, he might be a bit of C.J. McCollum regurgitation. But, you know, Anthony, you know, I really like Anthony Simons.

Anthony Simons, excuse me. I think, though, they still need more big. wings. It's just a matter of when they get to the playoffs, if Dame's going to be playing 44 minutes a game, you got to put big wings out there next to him to defend these monsters that they have to go up against. And so if that's the case, that's what they should be in the marketing. And I think it is the Kuzmas. I think it is the OGs. I think it is many of the guys we've already mentioned. I think the reality is Dame is a 32-year-old point guard with a pretty extensive history of abdominal injury at this point, it's not going to get

any easier for him from here on out. You know? Bad core is what you're saying? Look, you're the one who's saying we shouldn't be stretching out. We shouldn't be building that strength. Maybe he needs to go to the heat. It's a It's a tough spot though because Shaden's Sharp, based on what we've

seen so far, looks like the kind of prospect who if you trade too early on him, you could really regret it. Like he he's hitting the first wall of clearly capable player teams are starting to figure him out and adjust a little bit, but like he has the tools to hurdle over those walls, to drive around those walls. You know, like, he has that kind of game ultimately. And the Blazers are in that position where they've, they don't have like a bunch

of picks out the door in terms of like things they can't trade. But the pick that they've traded is so conditional that whatever team you're trading another pick to doesn't even know when that pick's going to come. It's like a two years after the debt you already owe situation at earliest. So that makes it hard to like really execute some super sophisticated deal to get someone as good as OG and Ninobe for example. Right. Also, Jeremy Grant having kind of a another breakout year somehow. I think this is like his fourth breakout year.

He's due a contract next off season. And I think it's pretty telling that he hasn't signed an extension or anything right now because he could probably cash in pretty significantly. So any guy. Just to pull back the curtain on the top 100 process, if you want to know what the opposite end of the Julius Randall spectrum was. It was when Jeremy Grant's name got brought up and all of us are just unanimous.

We love this guy. He fits on so many great teams. Just an incredibly talented and versatile and capable player. Shout out to Jeremy Grant. Yeah, is he higher than LeBron? He could be a climber. What about Jakub Pertil

for the Blazers? Someone, you fortify your defense, presumably isn't going to cost you a ton. And that's kind of, maybe like a stop gap with an eye toward the future there. The problem, of course, is he's also due a new contract. And I don't know how deep Blazers ownership is willing to get into the luxury tax, especially because of how shaky the long-term future of the ownership looks.

But I think just based on X's and O's, he would make a lot of sense in my opinion. So is he replacing NERC in this scenario or is he filling the Drew Eubanks role? Well, one or the other. It's a pretty different things, though. because you're saying their issue is with the bench minutes or what? Well, I'm saying like if you're using your resources to get a pretty good center when you already have a pretty good center. And I think a lot of Yakup Pertil defensively, certainly,

but is that fixing the problem here? Like, are you really addressing your fundamental needs? If that's kind of where you're pouring your attention and your resources. And just to be clear, you think fundamental needs are more wing defenders. I think it's defenders at other positions. Look, if Yusuf Nerkich were a better defender, obviously that would help.

If they can stabilize the defense there, but unless you're also trading Nerkich for other good players, I feel like you're probably squandering some of what the roster already has if you're just importing Yacca Pertl for a pick and whatever. I think Yacquipurto is a good defender. I think they need to get like straight up defenders in there.

You know, when you're, What's the difference between a good defender and a straight-up defender? He has verticality. I would say, like, Kevin Herder, he's good at defense. He's not, like, you're not going to just destroy the guy just because he's a white American, right? Like, he's going to hold up pretty good. He's got size, moves his feet decently well. He tries.

He's a good defender. He's not, like, a specialist. I shouldn't even say a specialist. Nobody would ever consider him for all defense. you know, on certain teams he might even have to sit for defensive possessions. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I mean. Like, he's good enough.

He's not going to be a sieve. He's not going to be a drag on the current defense. I think they need guys that are going to be value adds to their current defense. Because, again, 23 in the league is not going to cut it, you know, for the kind of success that they dream of having. Are you guys higher on a Miles Turner in this situation or a show? I just abandon the idea of improving on center altogether. You're just trying to trade Miles Turner everywhere, as is our tradition. And I want you to know I see it and I respect it.

It's literally the entire NBA is doing the same thing. So we're just following. You know what? Look, I used to enjoy the idea of Miles Turner over there just because of the pick and pop stuff. But, and, you know, ultimately I would be sour on it because I'm like, ah, when they do the two on the ball, is he a good enough playmaker? he's flashed some of that dribble stuff this year in Indiana that I never really thought that he had

not that he was allowed to do it because they were so obsessed with Sabonis but I'm just saying like he's shown more ball skills than I realized that he had however I just don't I don't know if that's an ideal fit they need interior stuff too to be honest with you like Dame and Simons are both very perimeter oriented players in terms of like great shooters obviously Jeremy me Grant kind of already gives you offensively

what Turner would and then some. Like it's just been a knockdown three point shooter this year obviously has a lot more to his game than that. We just need somebody going inside a little more. Like we need more interior players and ideally you need someone who has more going on going to the basket than Nurkich does in terms of like those kind of soft isn't the right word

but like they're just these little dinky floaters and runners that... I'm confused by Nurkich's game. He doesn't convert it a super high rate. I will put it that way. Yeah. I'll just mention briefly, not, wouldn't help them offensively,

but the mitten is expected back in one to two weeks. So maybe that will help a little on defense. Yeah, maybe that's enough of a bum in order to get them through the season. All right, let's move along. Number three, why the hell did the Lakers not trade for Boyan Bogdanovich two months ago?

Do you think there's a guy in every front office of every team in the NBA asking why didn't we trade for Boyan Bogdanovich two months ago? It's possible. You know, I think there's a, a legitimate reason why the Lakers didn't because let's just assume for a minute that the Jazz just didn't want Russell Westbrook's contract back or they didn't want picks because it seems like the Kelly Olinic Renaissance is actually going well for the Jazz. So maybe they had a preference

their age obviously drafted him to the Celtics. Maybe the Jazz didn't want Westbrook. So maybe there's like a practical reason. On the other hand, it seemed like a lot of the Lakers inaction was driven by the fact that they didn't want contracts that extended into this coming off season in order to have the cap space in order to make a splashier move. Unfortunately, Boyan now is on a two-year extension at 39 million over those two years. So that would cut into whatever presumably like big cap space they would have to get a big fish. But now we're here where every rumor has the Lakers interested in Boyan. So I'm a little confused wise. I don't know if you have any more insight here. I mentioned this on, I just, I mentioned this on an earlier

pod if people don't remember. But, you know, people were familiar with. with somebody thinking around the team, when I talked to him at the time, was like, there's a perception within the front office that they keep getting creamed on trades and they didn't want to, quote, unquote, lose a trade. And that's why you saw some of this,

what felt odd, especially for that front office group, this like hardball stance of like, no, we're not going to trade the second, another first. We're not going to do this. We're not going to do that. Where, you know, back when they were trading every single wing usable wing that they had. There was none of this.

Gun shyness. But I think that's what it was. They didn't want to be perceived to be getting fleeced on another trade. And they started trying to play quote-unquote hardball with teams. And of course, Danny Ains told them to, you know, go up the river.

So I wouldn't be surprised that they've now come around to the fact that, you know, this team needs upgrades and they should be willing to do a little bit more ego and pride be damned. However, I think the funniest, the funniest thing of all of this is I'm scrolling through Instagram

and shout to my man, Sham Sharm Sharania. One of the best at what he does. But he's breaking news, and the breaking news is that the Los Angeles Lakers were in the market for shooting. Hmm. I was like, guys. I mean, is he wrong?

I was like, guys. That is like saying I'm in the market for Rihanna. You know, like, yeah, okay, duh, of course you are. You're horrible at it. We all know you need it, yes. Yeah, it's just, it's tough to watch games like last night's overtime loss to the Celtics, where it's just like, you had a little bit more.

And I'm a broken record at this point, so I'll stop. But like, AD basically just ran out of gas and that was the problem with that game last night. If it just had like another guy to do literally anything off. offensively. I think they would be in much better shape already. Yeah. And Bouillon's a guy who not only is he going to fill it up himself and be like a nice third or fourth or second score in some lineups, depending on what you need, but he's going to make LeBron's life easier. He's going to make 80s life easier. He's going to make it so that the end of the games, your best players aren't running out of gas. But I mean, I would say if anything,

if we're kind of doing the revisionist history thing with the Lakers as far as like should they have traded for him when they had the chance, or glossing over is probably the fact that Olinick is more valuable than any supporting Laker. And so it's not like the Jazz got nothing. You know, they didn't get a pick back in the initial Bogdanovich trade, but they did get a pretty good player. And it was at a time, as we've discussed, where like the Lakers were star hunting.

They were like kicking the tires on Kyrie and trying to figure out if that was a viable thing or not. I don't know. They were just in a different place. They were not ready to have the boy of Bogdanovich conversation clearly when the jazz were ready to have that conversation. They hadn't tried ayahuasca yet. They hadn't been to Coachella, you know.

They're different now. Yeah. I think you meant dream catchers. Yeah. Dream catchers all over their bedroom now. Anything else about the Lakers?

I mean, we've talked about them a lot. Is there any other new wrinkle that you guys are seeing out there? Absolutely not. Let's keep it moving. Okay. I'll just say the biggest thing in the NBA,

but somehow it's only not obvious to the Lakers. Number four here, I have a list of players here who are surprisingly enough more in trade rumors than probably even Miles Turner. If traded, which of these rumor mill all-stars would make the biggest impact on the title race? And so I will ask you to consider not only where they could end up, but the role, the price it would take to get these sort of guy. So all the contacts added here. So we have Badanovich.

We have Jay Crowder, John Collins, Eric Gordon, Kyle Kuzma, Miles Turner, Nikola, Vosovich. Rob? You're basically asking us, like, if these guys were to be traded, who would we still be talking about in May? Like, who would be a relevant factor in the outcome of the season, right? Yeah, like, who is going to swing the title race the most? Considering that the title race is now like five to six,

the seven teams deep at this point, unless you believe that the Celtics are just running away favorites or the bucks. Like, I think it's possible if a team makes a marginal move, it could have a big impact. This is what I'm driving toward. For me, it's Kuzma. And that's because he's made himself, he's made himself into the kind of player

who could be really attractive to winning teams specifically. And you look across the board. Phoenix has been linked to him. I think Miami would make a lot of sense for him. I think Memphis would make sense for him. Philadelphia, Dallas. Like there's a lot of teams

you could see Kuzma plugging into what they do and between the cutting and the intuitive play, being able to connect dots. Like, he's not quite as good as shooters as you would want him to be, but he's a good defender with a flexible game who could play and guard multiple positions. Lots of teams could use that.

And the Wizards may ask a lot for him, but his salary is as such where you don't have to have a ton of ballast just to get a deal done. It seems plausible that he could wind up on a team in the conference finals by the end of the season. Yeah, first of all,

what the hell is Nikola Vucovich doing on this list? That's the one. get him out of this list. That's not a guy who helps a team win a championship. That's never going to be a thing. It's never going to happen. Just had to, just the obligatory Vucci man hate just had to come out of me. But yeah, I'm still John Collins, man.

I just like his ability to guard threes and fours, vertically space. Every now and again make an open jump shot. I just think in the playoffs, man, where everybody's switching everything, because everything redounds to this one-on-one stuff. And when he's locked in, he's so good at the perimeter stuff. He's so good at being physical, close to the basket. Like, he's not just going to get bullied. I think that specific skill set,

when you get into the nitty-gritty and you get into the trenches, so to speak, it's so valuable in a playoff series. And it's, you know, a little bit of rim protection. I just really, really still believe in the potential. of John Collins, man. And as far as what to give up, I think John Collins on a team that's clearly destined for the playoffs,

a first and, you know, the protected other first? Why not? He's getable. John Collins is getable. Let's be honest. Go along save John Collins, y'all. The toughest, despite Atlanta's willingness

for the past 20 years to trade John Collins, he does make a sizable amount of money, $23.5 million this year, which makes it more difficult. And I think that's where the tricky part of this question comes in, as the question maker can step outside for a second here. Show us the craft of really building this thing, Justin. Well, if you're trading for Collins, you got to aggregate the salary to acquire him,

which I think is going to be tough, which is why I would say Jay Crowder, not the best player on this list, but presuming that he just hasn't been eating talkies on the couch all like past two months and playing video games with DeAndre Aton, which I doubt he's doing these days. Like, I just feel like he is the easiest fit to a lot of teams,

which is why I think you see him in a lot of rumors. It's like, oh, the bucks, he could just be a plug-in-play defender three-point shooter. The Hawks, even. Like, I think he could fit into a lot of situations and instantly make a difference. Well, the reason you see him in a lot of rumors just because he hasn't played for his team yet.

Yeah. Yeah, but he's always in rumors. Like every single year for the past decade. He's played for a lot of teams now. So it's not just that he's in rumors. He's always getting traded. But it certainly would fit the bill that all he does basically is get traded to teams and those teams make a deep playoff run.

And then they kind of get sick of whatever it is that he's doing there and they move on. And that's the cycle. I just seem to remember Jay Crowder saying his shooting percentage was down in Cleveland because of LeBron's pass placement. The ball placement on LeBron's passes was why he was in a shooting slump. I remember him saying that. I was like, this is a special, special kind of cat.

This is the same LeBron who historically could put the seams exactly where he wanted on a cross-court pass. That's the LeBron you're talking about. Imagine what Reeves can do if LeBron could actually pass, you know, shooting 50% out here. Any of these other guys jump out to you, Rob, Eric Gordon, still have anything in the tank. Who else?

We talked about Turner. I mean, I think most of these guys would be useful. It's just... Eric Gordon for sure. It's just a gradation thing. Like, Eric Gordon, absolutely viable for a lot of contending level teams. Plug and play guy.

Really simple. Still a good defender, still a good shooter. Still has a little bit of juice off the bounce, which is nice, some facilitation. And he can kind of like help babysit some second units that might not have enough shot creation too. Like, that's a useful player for a lot of really good teams. Eric Gordon is like a sensible, more washed version of what Jordan Poole currently does.

You know what I mean? What is that? What is the sensible version of Jordan Poole? Like I don't know how to square that. There's no proof of that concept. Yeah. Well, here's a question. Let's look this to the other side of this.

Are there any teams that are now in the thick of the title race who you guys could see is like they're one player away? or they need one of these guys, and it makes sense for them to do it. Like, I'm looking at teams like the Sons, who are now, according to Shams, Waz's favorite newsbreaker, connected to Gordon in a potential J. Crowder trade. Are they the type of team

considering their recent skid, five losses in a row at the time of this recording? Like, would they make sense as a team that would need him? Are the warriors going to jump in? I think Memphis with a little bit more shooting would be, yeah, that becomes a really scary and dangerous proposition because, you know, newsflash nobody's going to be able to stay in front of John Morant

come April. Like, that's not a thing that's going to change. He's going to attract a lot of defense. And so if you get some legitimate shooting around what he's going to be doing in the playoffs, that becomes something to definitely, definitely look at. Because if they could stay,

athletic as they are and as physically, um, sort of imposing as they still are while adding some shooting to what they do. Yeah. I like, I like what Memphis could do with a Kuzma, with a bogey, quite honestly. I think he would be a nice fit in Memphis,

Bogdanovich. Um, so yeah, definitely Memphis. You can see how Phoenix got there on Eric Gordon though. Like how they got into that conversation and like, is this a guy we need? Because you look out on a nightly basis

if you're the Suns and it's like, this is a lot of Tori Craig and Josh Akogi and like Landau. We're very dependent on Landry Shammit some games. Like that is a little tenuous from a playoff standpoint in a way that a shorthand like Gordon would feel, feel pretty good to have around.

Might have property from when he thought he was going to the Phoenix Suns like eight years ago now. You got to buy early. We know that. Yeah, you probably made a killing off of that. if he did buy. I'd like to mention that the Memphis Grizzlies

have the same exact record than the Pelicans who I'm pretty sure are on route to what is it, 80 wins this year in an Olympic medal. Also the new

Michael Jordan MVP trophy award, the Wilt Chamberlain, whatever the fuck award. They got all of those. So that's great. When are we, can we pencil in a gris pod?

Like just a full start to stop. Like, let's just go hard on the grizzlies. I love the grizzlies. If you'll remember, I pick them as a sleeper team in the West during our tiers, our title tiers. Were they in like your eighth tier? What was that? Yeah. No, I think it was more like six or seven. All right. Last question on the docket here. More kind of big picture.

Because as I'm going through some of these teams who need like the star in order to bring them into the actual title hunt, I kind of find myself wavering in thinking like, is that really the past? of success these days. We talked about in the past with some of the teams like the Nets and the Lakers who kind of fell on their face as a result of star trades that have not age well. But I'm thinking more like the Timberwolves these days, the Westbrook trade, obviously, but even the Dejante Murray trade hasn't been gangbusters for the Hawks, even though they have been better. And so, Rob, my question is, should teams be more wary of trading for a star, or in parentheses, and then air quotes, a star, given recent prices for some of these deals and some of the recent flubs.

I'm not sure they're going to have a choice on whether to be wary or not. And there's two things kind of powering that. One is the market is now tilted by the other side of those deals where the thunder and the jazz and the spurs have a lot of draft capital. And if they see somebody they like, they're going to be able to set the market for what those players are getting. And it may be another four or five first round picks because they have those picks to spare.

And so if you're another team who wants to get in the market on star player X, you might have to be able to match that offer, at least get close enough to it that the teams that have those stars currently will entertain, entertain your calls even. But I think the other part of it is just like the NBA is the ultimate, but this could work for us league, where draft picks mean different amounts to every franchise. And some teams always think, like, if we can just get this one guy,

if we just get this one star in the door, they can completely change the shape of everything we do. You know, the Hawks and the wolves weren't like the only teams that were desperate to get better. And the more that the standings are clustered the way they are, the more that some team is going to look at this and say, this is our time. Like, we just need Brad Beale. We just need Zach Levine. We just need whoever it is you want to throw into that conversation. Yeah, I think what's interesting, I think the wolves and the calves are interesting case studies because the wolves actually achieved way more than the calves did last year.

but they had to give up so much more to get their superstar into the door and I think that's sort of where the rubber meets the road if you will if I'm using that expression that I only ever hear white people use right um Rob

I think check the tapes I've never said where the rubber meets the road on this podcast I think man it's it's tough Like, you really have to be good at self-evaluating. I think the calves were really good at being like, yo, we're not, you know, close to a championship.

But, man, it's really exciting where we could get to with Donovan Mitchell and without him. It's going to be really exciting what we do. I think the wolves for whatever reason, and because they've had so much less recent success, that might play into it. Right? The Cavs have won a championship in 2016. They've been going to the, like, their fans have been in front office and ownership is experience. Playoff guns, granted, all with LeBron, one guy, did all of that. But there's a, like, a feeling that they've had some measure of success over there. And the desperation wasn't as palpable as the wolves who, they got rid of Kevin Garnett and have not mattered since, you know?

And so they were just way more desperate to do it. So I guess, like, like Rob said, like, you got a very valid. value what's important to you and why. And that's going to be different for every single franchise, which is a very cowardly way of me saying, I don't know. I think you got to take it by a case-by-case basis. I love what the Cavs did. I really do.

I think they paid a fair price. They gave up a lot of future draft equity for it. But I think the potential of what they could do with the group that they've assembled is legitimately exciting and worth what they did. The wolves, I don't like one of their main guys. I don't like Carl Anthony Town. So it's almost like, you know, trying to give up all of these things to build around that dude.

You know, I don't know. Who would Austin Rivers say, your partner in crime about this bulls? Well, I think one of the interesting kind of subplots of this is like I don't even know who the stars are that teams will try. straightforward. Like there isn't an obvious target for one of the first times in a while. And maybe that's just a matter of like what we know in the public versus what is burbling beneath the surface. Like we did not realize that DeJante Murray was like an obvious candidate as much

as he turned out to be just because of the way his contract lined up and it was going to be impossible for the spurs to probably retain him long term. And so that came up later. And so maybe that happens. But also like the teams that need like very clearly need that one star are, that's also tough to identify. Like the Mavs, as we talked about last pod, probably are the biggest culprit, if only because you have Luca on his second contract. And so there's an obvious clock that is ticking. But like, I was struggling to find another team. The Knicks, I guess, just because they're thirsty

for a star dating back decades. Like the Kings, maybe, but like, even they have something good going. So like, why would they screw that up? And so I don't know. It's a very weird. The Kings would trade their best guys? No, excuse me. These are teams that need a star. So like the Kings like, Okay, I see.

I see. Like, yeah, like, why would the Grizzlies, for instance, trade a lot of their good depth for, like, a Zach Levine? You know what I mean? That doesn't make sense. So there's, like, all of the rush to be good now has created all these teams that don't actually need Star, and you might even advocate for the fact that, like,

maybe they're better off just where they are. And so it's a very weird dynamic on the market right now. Yeah, I think where you can get into a tricky place with some of this is, like, we need a star, period. it almost doesn't matter who it is. Like if you feel the need as a franchise to add a signature player, add star power, add somebody who's going to put butts and seats

if you need like your attendance up, that's dangerous. And that's how you get into like, okay, we're just kind of throwing picks at a player to be named later versus this is the one guy with the kind of skill set who can change our team. And to your point,

there aren't those guys right now. And some of that is by virtue of looking at the bottom of the standings. Those aren't teams of the veteran players anymore. Like the Rockets other than the Eric Gordon types don't have a lot to spare. You know, the pistons, the magic. These teams have already been kind of scraped of their veteran guys

who would be star-level acquisitions. So they're all kind of like humming along, you know, getting to good development time for their young players, getting those opportunities, losing lots of games, but they're not like dangling a really good player

who's just waiting to be set free. Here's the one caveat team was, and I'm curious what you think here, it would be the Warriors. Obviously, the two-track conversation we've had 30 times over the past year. But we're now standing in a place. It's still very relevant. They're 14 and 14 as of recording this podcast 10th in the West, two spots above the Lakers. And so like, are you more

convinced if like a Bradley Beale comes on the table that like, hey, Clay Thompson, thanks for the history. We're actually going to trend the page and we're going to take, we're going to make the most out of Steph Curry's prime, you know, or extended prime, wherever we are here. I'm not. And you know, the interesting thing, I think the fun thing about following the League too is watching these trends happen over time, right? We all remember that time where people would just pick hoarding where nobody would get rid of a first round pick. It was just like, oh, this is the most valuable thing you can even have.

Even if it's the 24th pick and, you know, you're just getting the reincarnation of Frederick Vice. It's so valuable, right? Like, we went through that era and then we've moved into this sort of, you know, let the picks fly, right? Like, we don't care about picks number 25. We don't really care about picks from 12 on, honestly. Like, to watch the Knicks just straight up trade out of the 14th pick

just for the potential of maybe doing something. And nobody was just like, wait, what? Aren't you a rebuilding team? Like, it's gotten to that point with picks. And the same is to be said about, like, a sort of inertia that would creep into most NBA teams where, you know, GMs were just like, I'm not swinging for the fences. I'm not doing anything crazy. Think of Portland and Neil Olshea as an example, right?

Whereas now, I think there's a couple of NBA GMs that need to call Neil Olshea and be like, how did you do the just stand pat and relax? Because a lot of teams need to relax. None of y'all are swing away from the championship. None of y'all are swing away from, you know, a Steph Curry ankle sprain to you guys being in the conference finals. It's like seven teams that that's the case, man.

And like the rest of you guys need to just play out the string and be content to be and also ran NBA team. Can I undercut everything we've said right now and pitch a wild trade? Please do. Okay.

So know how I said before that the Sacramento Kings are not the type of team that could get in on the Star trademark camp? You're just contradicting not only us but yourself now. I'm just throwing ideas against the wall, man. This is a long-form discussion podcast.

This is Justin's Woody Allen movie. we're just starting to dialogue. Yeah, that will take way too long to explain that reference. What if the Kings are the team that gets really bold here and decides, you know what, Zach Levine, we almost had you once, why don't you come home to Sacramento and to complete the run-in-gun, new version of the Phoenix Suns that they have going here? It's Zach Levine for Harrison Barnes and Rashon Holmes,

both of whom are just contracts, let's just be honest. And let's just say however many first it takes, three first round picks. And so now you're rolling out a starting five of Deerne Fox, Zach Levine, Kevin Herder, Keegan Murray, and our guy, DeMonis, a bonus. They're the type of team, I guess, is what I'm saying. I'm intrigued by that. They're in on the now.

Let's be even more in. Well, how about this? How about this, Justin? Do something this year with this group. Let this group show you what they can do. But you just said the Cavs didn't. The Cavs like didn't make it out of the playing. That was a fine season.

That's fair. But you know, the thing about the Cavs that they got guys calling their second best player, Will Chamberlain, Kevin Garnett, right? Like so, you know, the kings don't have that, right? They don't have these guys. Have you not seen Matthew on a good night? They don't have that. The Kings have like, you know, besides. Keegan Murray, like most of these guys are like vets. You know?

Like, so let this group of vets show what they can do collectively. And then be like, all right, maybe we can upgrade this thing. Maybe we don't like how it looked when we were the seventh seed or the sixth seed or whatever. And we want to get into the fourth and third seed combo. You know, maybe. But I think it's too early. And especially because they haven't even completely sorted out who they are yet. You know, they're still being.

becoming the team that they're going to be. So I think it's a little early for them, man. Plus, like, I'm just not looking at one of the better offensive teams in the NBA and saying they need Zach Levine. It would make them better, but I feel like leaning into it

that hard when your defense needs this much help. It's kind of defeating the point, especially when if you're going to put Zach Levine on that team, you're taking minutes away from either Kevin Herder or Malik Monk, who've been two of their best players, this season. Again, it's another one of those cases where, yes, you were getting that

obviously Zach Levine is better than both of those guys. But the offset in terms of what you already have is probably doing a little bit of a disservice to kind of the construction of the team for now. I'm just going gun-blazing. We're not worried about defense anymore. We're scoring 150 every night. The boys will be more than happy to trade

Zach Levine this summer. You watch. They will be more than happy to Jimmy Butler's ass. Trust. There are lots of teams who I would love to see Zach Levine like punch up what they do. The king's just like aren't at the top of that list for me personally. Okay. So who's on your list if you had like a Zach Levine dream scenario? Great question. We talked about the Mavs last week. The Mavs makes some sense. They obviously make some sense. I mean, the hard part with him is a lot of the, a lot of the places

where he's maybe most needed and like his dynamism. And like let's just let's just kind of lay it out. What Zach Levine does best is he's a really versatile shooter. can obviously hit pull-ups at a high rate. Also a great catch-and-shoot movement guy, like really fluid in terms of moving around the court and shooting from lots of different angles. That's a skill that's almost universally valuable. But obviously, so if you're a team that's already strapped for spacing.

And that's where, like, our conversation earlier about, like, would Memphis not be served trading for a guy like that? I think they might be. Like, he might be a little redundant with Desmond Bain, for sure. But a team like that could certainly use him. Like, I, like, the heat, if they wanted to put some, I don't think they can more. move hero yet. But if they wanted to do something

around Hero, because he's obviously just Hero way better. He would be an exceptional fit with the heat. Yeah. And even teams like if the Jazz wanted to push some stuff in and kind of like get even a little punchier, you don't like that? Wow. No, well, I'm just like

the Jazz now are trading for stars. It's just like my head of shit out of New Orleans last night. Just kick the crap out of them up and down the floor. A team that's allegedly tanking. The Pelicans, the greatest dynasty in history just lost to the jazz

jazz must be incredible. I don't know why you're intent on sitting on the corner that the Pelicans aren't really good when they're clearly really good. I think everyone just acts like they're the greatest team in history. He hates New Orleans. He scarred. All them Ben-Jays he had back in his

beat writing days, he scarred from it. Zion scores 20 points. He's like, magnificent. He's the greatest player in history. He's Will plus John Stockton plus Zach he's pretty freaking good. He's very good. I just like,

let's just be rational about how good they are. Anyway, I know every story is about trauma these days, but someday we're going to unpack your New Orleans thing. This whole situation is not good. What happened? I feel like I have an average opinion about it and everyone else is crazy.

That's the problem. Yeah, no, I think Levine makes a lot of sense in Miami. I'm trying to think, though. I guess the Knicks. I've always would have loved see him on the Sixers instead of James Harden, although, like, you need 10 Dr. Fleischman's for that team at that point,

considering all the lower body trauma that they've had? That's the thing about Zach, man. His injury stuff scares the hell out of me. If I'm a team trading for that deal and just the myriad of, you know, leg injuries, knee stuff, yeah. He's a guy I would love to see on the Raptors, too, to kind of circle back on our previous conversation. Oh, my God.

Finally, a dude that. shoots it and create on his own. Lord, go figure. I mean, you think about all the good things that Fred Van Ville does for that offense and Zach does a lot of them at a higher level. And if you can have both of those guys, you know, bully for it.

I love that. Yeah, I would love the Raptors to clarify something with a star player. I don't know who that is and if they're going to do that just because Messiah is so good at finding guys like with the 59th pick in the draft and turning them into like a steady rotation player So maybe they don't need to, but yeah, I mean, I've really enjoyed the Siakum Renaissance this year, as I've said. So you're saying don't give up Christian Coloco in the deal. That's where you're drawing the line.

Listen, I've said this before. I think one of my favorite things of the season is listening to Jack Armstrong, get excited over Christian Coloco. It is just a joyous occasion. Coloco! All right, since we're already talking about wild trades, let's get to our significant. I don't think we have a jingle yet, Rob, do you want to kick something off here? Absolutely not. I need, I need months to prepare. You know, I have an extensive process. Like, I really need to get in the lab with that kind of stuff. You need to gargle some salt water. Yeah. But today's suggestion box is presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited.

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Isaiah is not here this week. So our voice of Gen Z is going to be manned by me, a tried and true washed-ass millennial. This week's suggestion comes from Jeff C. and Jeff C. has a trade based on her discussion last week about the timber wolves and hawks. He is proposing a challenge trade. A loser leaves town challenge trade. I just have to mention that he left the pun of loser leaves towns challenge trade on the table. So I'm going to clean that one up for. That's an editor's brain right there, you know? There you go. Just punching it up. So this trade is the

Hawks get D'Angelo Russell and Anthony Edwards. The T-wolves get T-Wong. and Justin Holliday. He has a big description here, including throwing me into the T. Wolf side to make the money work. I don't think the wolves could afford me, frankly. But he says trade makes both teams better, probably in short and long term.

Who says no? Who says yes? Yeah, like, I don't, I just, I mean, the Rudy and Tray Young dream internet scenario has been around for so long, just the idea that they offset each other's glaring weaknesses so well. What about the Trey and Carl Towns collective vibes? How do you feel about that?

It will be explosive. God, dude. All the way around. And then get A-Rod in there as ownership? Three of the best sports personalities of my life. What do we think about it from Atlanta's side? I love it getting Anthony Edwards to Elena, bring him back to his Georgia roots, give him a team that isn't cluttered with 90 centers in his path anymore. I do like, okay, this is why this is a good trade to consider because I do feel like it's pretty clarifying from Atlanta's point of view.

Like, if you were going to think about trading Trey Young, what do you need to get back in return? I think it has to be a guy who's like clearly a franchise player. And to me, Anthony Edwards is not. not at that threshold yet. Like he's very good. He's going to have a bright future. We felt good about it happening this season, you know, the third year leap, that kind of thing. The way the abilities he flashed in the first round of the playoffs,

well, for an offense or defense, it was like, oh, if you could carry that into this regular season, that would be something crazy. But as we, as we know, because we're NBA dorks, growth and maturity isn't linear in this league. The guys don't just go up, up, up, up, up. in a way, like, you know, sometimes there's backslides, and I think he's had a bit of a backslide, but roster construction has to do with it. And I just

like the idea of Atlanta becoming just a supercharged sort of we're all in on athleticism and just physicality, right? Between him and Murray and Collins and the kind of guys that would remain, they would be probably

the most athletic team in the league by then, which, you know, maybe not a lot of skill, not a lot of finesse, not a lot of, you know, shooting and all that kind of stuff, but they would be a really, really athletic team.

I'll be honest. I was never a big believer on the Anthony Edwards. This is the year he was going to dominate the league conversation. And I kind of went along with it knowing that I didn't totally believe it. And I'm kind of like,

okay, this feels more right. I still think he's going to be very good. I'm not starting to believe that Justin is Fleischman. He just really is. I never believed it, but I just kind of went along with it. Like, watch the show, guys. You guys will understand exactly what I'm talking about.

The level of neurosis that Justin is exposing on this podcast is not healthy for any of us to have to listen to this. I didn't believe it, but I kind of went along with it is the tagline of that damn show. I mean, this is what podcasts do. It's more intimate medium. So, like, you're getting a glimpse at that me unfiltered pretty much here. But no, yeah, no, I think Edwards could be very good. But, like, I think there was a lot of talk about him just being like the guy this year. And I never really bought that.

And so, like, I feel like he's recalibrated to a certain extent. And I would actually- Calibrated because they've made the things he need to figure out harder. That's true, too. Yeah. Like, these things, like, figuring out how to find spaces increases with two centers on the floor from the perimeter is an expert level job description. It's not like this is not beginners.

He's playing all Madden right now with the way the roster is constructed. So yeah, he's not, he hasn't taken to it. He hasn't figured it out. Imagine he got to plan a five out like they do in Utah. I think he can figure that shit out. I bet you he can figure that out. Surround him with four shooters, just attack and just pass when they send two to your way. Yeah, I bet you would be a lot.

lot easier for him to navigate than, you know, the sort of morass that's happening in, Minnesota. Yeah, I think that's going to be the, that's going to be the big question with Edwards going forward is his judgment and his ability to read those kinds of complex situations. And some of them are not even just what the wolves are building or the team around him is building. It's playoff level defenses. It's like evolving situations.

Because, yeah, the athleticism is there. The burst is there. We know the talent and the skill. The jumper can be especially deadly in some stretches, but we just have a lot to see. And for everything, all the criticisms we've lodged about Trey Young on this podcast, that is not really a question.

Like, he's still one of the most profoundly talented playmakers and offensive players in the league and a guy who can read those situations if you give them enough to work with. So yeah, I don't really see this from either team's perspective based on what they currently have. But we hate it for the wolves, right? We're all in agreement.

I hate it for everybody. I hate it for both teams. I hate it for us. I hate it for the world. Okay. Thank you, Jeff C. I don't hate Jeff C. And I don't hate this topic of conversation.

I really do think it's a good way to kind of interrogate what Ant and what Trey bring to the table and what their particular values are. I do think it's great for that. Yeah. All right. That's it for suggestion box.

I will just say that there's one that we got a couple days ago that tries to bring forward a Waz's white player of the week award. I respect it. We love it, but we can't read that on air. Not for a sponsored segment, guys.

That'll be for the Patreon. We'll eventually have to start up in order to pay the bills. It's not going to bring out the sponsors we want, I don't think. All right, but you know what sponsor? We do love? Chase. Because today's suggestion box was presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited.

Earn big time with Chase Freedom Unlimited. Earn 5% on travel purchase through Chase, 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% of drugstores, and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? Chase, make more of what's yours. Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by J.P. Morgan Chase Bank,

N.A, member FDIC. All right. I think that's it for us. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo on production, filling in for producer. Isaiah on the Gen Z chair today. Go watch Fleischman is in trouble and you might be able to understand half of the jokes on this podcast or maybe don't because it's a mediocre Woody Allen rip off.

Wow. All right. Boo. All right. End this show. Okay. We'll be back next week. We'll see it.