The Ringer NBA Show - Five Big Questions One Month Away from Training Camp | Group Chat

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Justin and Rob start by discussing Christian Wood signing with the Lakers and how he fits on their team (3:44). Then, they answer five questions one month before training camp starts, including any dark horse teams trading for Damian Lillard and James Harden, which players make the FIBA leap, story lines to keep an eye on, and more (16:35). Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For all your fantasy football needs, check out the Ringer Fantasy Football Show with me, Danny Hifetz and Craig Horrellback. That's the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Ferrier and joining me stepping out of his closet in a pair of boxing gloves to prepare for this podcast. It's Rob Mahoney. What's up, buddy?

Is that the energy you want to bring to this podcast today? Because I thought this was going to be a genial affair. I thought we were just going to have a great time talking. and basketball together, Justin. But if you want to fight a la Dylan Brooks, or at least Shadowbox a little bit, we can do that. Do I want to fight? It seems like you do.

Me? Yes. I would say the past six months of podcasting would suggest that, yes, I enjoy a good tussle every now and then. I would say so. Was there a turning point in your life? Did something happen that brought this out in you? I would always say I have like a Kobe energy to any sort of

slight, smaller, or large. And so I would say that was pretty baked in from the start there. Maybe it's gotten worse as time goes on, but maybe you tell me. I think we all get worse as time goes on. Just like whatever our most eccentric qualities are, they get magnified over time. And this is it for you. You're only going to get more combative from here. Great.

Something for all of our listeners to look forward to then. Was, my favorite combatant, unfortunately, is not with us this week. We're doing a little bit of a wife swap. here, a little trade-off right before we get into the thick of things. I mean, there's so many other ways you could explain that, you know? I mean, I guess you're the partner here, so you decide whether or not you're offended by it. I would say we're doing like a, you know, a Fiba group play round robin situation, you know? Oh, interesting. Very topical, very European of you after spending so much time abroad.

Of course. Yeah, so Waz is off. I'm on. I think we won't start in earnest group chat for another couple. weeks because we have what two three weeks until training camp start the title of this podcast would suggest that it's about a month from training camp but i think some teams that are going to play overseas games in the preseason start a little bit sooner but we're like three to four weeks thereabouts um are you getting excited can you feel the juices flowing oh yeah i think so and look when are we going to get at the level where us intrepid reporters here at the ringer dot com are being dispatched for these international preseason games, right? Like, can Spotify send us to the Middle East? Can

send us back, you know, send us out to Paris for these games? What's going on? Like, what do we need to do to get that signed off? I wouldn't say Middle East in the summer would be at the top of my list of destinations and ass, but I would say- For a variety of reasons, I think, but. Sure. Although LeBron, on the other hand, seems to be enjoying himself in Saudi Arabia as we're recording this podcast. No, did you ask? I guess I haven't. It's, That's on me. That's on me. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know the answer unless you ask. That's just life lesson of group chat, I guess. So I guess that means I'm not ready. I am philosophically, spiritually ready for to watch basketball again. You know, Feeba basketball can only scratch that itch so much. The NBA is a very unique product. I'm dabbling in a little US open just to try to get some kind of sports fix.

But look, we need we need some training camp storylines. We need some depth chart battles. We need to really get this thing back up and running again. And we are perilously close, Justin. Yep. Which is why we are going to bring to you the five biggest questions with about a month before said training camps. A little post-Fiba action, a little what we're looking forward to. But first, we have to talk about the big breaking news event of last night on Tuesday night. We're recording this on Wednesday evening, which was Christian Wood to the Lakers, a move that has been assumed, I think, at least since summerly, because I remember people talking about it then

that that was all but a sure thing. Turns out no one else was there for a friend Christian despite all of the big old extension talks, rumors scuttle, but at some point during the regular season, like the two to three weeks where he was like really popping off for the Mavericks, it seemed like they might retain him. Unfortunately, the carousel stopped for him in free agency. He ended up taking a one plus one for what I believe is the veteran minimum.

where are you on this deal? Is it just no loss for the Lakers just such a buy low that you're for it? Or is this going to create maybe too crowded a front court? Where are you on it? I mean, you might as well take the swing at this point, but other teams have said that with Christian Wood previously, and we've seen how it turned out.

Is there a big question a month from camp here as it relates to Christian Wood, or is he just kind of tacked on at the top of our rundown? Is the question, is the question, can Christian Wood play basketball? Perhaps. We could make it a full-on question. I have it down as an addendum, but it really depends on how big Christian Wood news is for your personal content diet. I will say maybe my question with Christian Wood is, at what point does Darwin Ham get burned out on the Christian Wood experience?

Because this seems to be the cycle. I will say, of all the time I've been covering the NBA, I don't know that I've seen a player as talented as Christian Wood experience. Christian Wood trusted less by the people he works with than Christian would. There are not many coaches who will vouch for him, who have invested in him and feel good about that investment, who feel like they can trust him to put him into big games, to execute game plans, to do even like basic NBA level stuff. And yet he is, of course, as we all know, wildly productive, can definitely score, can definitely shoot, can definitely attack, can handle, can do a lot of things you wish you

the big on your team can do. he's just such a headache. And we've seen the headache type players on LeBron James teams go a bunch of different ways, some of which have been championship level successful. So you don't want to completely

write off the possibility, but Christian Wood ain't J.R. Smith is what I would say. You know, like there's a type of headache player you can kind of put in the corner and they will mostly mind their own business and fire away when the ball comes to them. Christian Wood has a way of creating problems.

and I don't mean that even like a locker room since like he's like a bad guy or something. I'm talking about on the floor within the lines creates problems. And we will see what the Lakers and what D'arvanham's appetite or tolerance is for that kind of play. Well, I guess that's an interesting point in the follow of question would be, do you believe in LeBron's ability to rehabilitate players one, kind of like he did for J.R. Smith, because as you'll remember, and our audience surely does. Like, they got J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert for virtually nothing because the Knicks were just fed up with them.

And LeBron basically took them under his wing and said, I got these guys and turned them into role players for a championship team, perennial finals team. Now, there are cases where people have butted up against LeBron, typically more star players, younger players who just want more shine. But Wood strikes me as a type of person and considering where he is now that he's kind of. fallen from grace. He had the big contract, but now is left having to rehab his career on a veteran minimum. I wonder if he's in the right place and LeBron is still the right player in order to bring whatever good is out of him while mitigating the bad. Do you still believe that LeBron can do that? I think LeBron can do that, but the types of players he can rejuvenate and resuscitate and fully like integrate into a, again, a contending level formula.

that range of players is just a little smaller. I think what made LeBron so good at that with guys ranging from, you know, Iman Shumperid and J.R. Smith to all kinds of bigs, to point guards who can't really pass, like all kinds of different players was that he was so positionally versatile. You can move him all around the floor

and therefore you can accentuate whatever talents these guys have. LeBron's a little more limited in that regard now where he's kind of pretty locked into defending certain kinds of players, mostly around his size. You don't really want to play him at the five too much, although with Christian Wood, that's not exactly the kind of problem we're talking about.

But for me, it's the front court. It's like, do you have room for as much as you want to play AD and LeBron and the games that matter? And all these other guys, you're trying to kind of pencil in. And maybe with Christian Wood, honestly, maybe that's not the point. Maybe the point of Christian Wood is get you through the 82. And he's a guy who is going to be able to put up points in those games, hopefully with like a net positive effect.

and that could be enough, you know, considering the health issues between LeBron and AD, considering where this team wants to go, considering what we saw them just do in the playoffs. Like this is an accomplished playoff group at this point, given the run they just had, even though they got kind of waxed by the nuggets, if we're being honest. But if you can get back to that place, that's a win. Yeah. Well, Fit is an interesting question, too, because I'm just looking at their depth chart in the front court right now.

I kind of wonder if Wood, if he does find this sort of elevated, playing for LeBron. If he reaches like the LeBron role player Nirvana status, I wonder if he is, at least offensively, the right fit next to Anthony Davis as opposed to some of the other guys. So it's Jackson Hayes, yet another Pelican's former Big Man would play there for a brief stimp before going on to, I believe, Wauke or Detroit, one of those teams on his world tour of just like minimum and prove it deals.

So Jackson Hayes is, I guess, penciled in is the backup center. You have Wood, you have Vanderbilt, who I think you would agree, is probably still more of a four at this point than a true five, given how slender, yeah. Maybe closer to a three or at least guard, you know, we seem guard a lot of guards too. Right. And then Hachamura, who, and you have to wonder, like, yes, Hashimura would ideally be the, the bulletproof starter at that four, maybe guards and bigger guys' positions. But, like, are we sure that what happened in the playoffs with Rihachamura is going to continue? And so, like, there's a very real possibility where Wood, who shoots, like, around 38% from three is actually a nice little, like, front court partner for Anthony Davis, whose jumper has all but forsaken him. That's, like, a whole other story.

Like, we need, like, a Ryan Johnson mystery to find out what the hell happened to Anthony Davis and his jump shot, particularly from three point range. But, like, if all things go well, and I don't know this is, we're now rose-colored, rainbow-colored glasses at this point. like it does make a little sense the Wood LeBron A.D. Like five to three. Justin, it always makes sense. When Christian Wood signs it always makes sense.

He's a great like combo, pick and roll, pick and pop player. As you said, he can space. And he's one of these bigs who not only can shoot, but actually has the handle to attack closeouts and can get in the middle and make stuff happen. It has the touch on hooks and runners to be really productive.

The Bloom just always falls off the rose. And like, again, the fact that what's so weird about this Lakers team, again, like I do, they've proven it, right? They have proven. They have earned a level of trust, especially since the midseason trades last year. This is a competitive and formidable team. But as you're going through the roster and the depth chart and you said Rui Hachemura should be the bulletproof starter, my brain is just whirling itself into much. I'm like, how did we get here where Vrui Hachimura is the trustworthy guy here. He had a great playoffs.

He did. I know that you're still a doubter, despite all, like, a month or two of evidence that, like, he could be a, like, a good role player within this system of players. But you're not buying it. You're not, like, all the way sold. I'm not all the way sold. And I don't even mean that to say, like, I'm so pessimistic.

There's no way it could possibly happen. It's just I need to see a little bit more. It was so aberrational what happened, not only the shooting, but the decision-making. And maybe that's where you would hope you see some of the similarity with Christian Wood's situation, right? It's the ironed-out decision-making. Just being in a more serious, competitive context,

alongside one of the greatest players of all time, will that make you get your shit straight? And with Ruehachemura in the playoffs, it absolutely did. He played with a drive and a focus. We've literally just never seen from him before. as a Washington Wizard or even really as a Laker during his short time there in the regular season, maybe Christian Wood has that in him. I'm even more doubtful about Christian Wood panning out in a meaningful playoff context.

As a regular season player, maybe he'll be useful for them. And again, maybe that is kind of the point of all this. Yeah. It's a lot of options. And considering that they do kind of have the shape of their team, They know that you are LeBron, A.D. and now Austin Reeves, although the Lithuania basketball team and its people have something perhaps to say about how much we should even bank on that. But they have a lot of different looks and options in order to find that. And the one thing I do like about this, we'll call it a front court room. I love how like football types now want to talk about the quarterback rooms all the time. I don't actually know if there is a positional room within basketball. We can go with it. the only real center outside of AD is Jackson Hayes. And even he, I think, like, you could maybe force him into that four role if AD wants

to cry about playing at the four, at least to start the season, realize it's not going to work and then put him back as a true center. Like, so there isn't a lot of wiggle room to give AD that benefit of having to play four again. Like, they are pretty much locked into 85 and then some stretchier player defensive minded player, hopefully at the four, LeBron, Austin Reeves, and then maybe Russell or some of the other guards that they have there. So I do like the basic outline of the team. I would say just big picture. I don't know if this necessarily swings the Lakers offseason thus far,

but I've been an optimist for the Lakers, this Austin. I thought they had a very solid offseason in which they've got a lot of guys who are helpful now that could be rolled together in order to build something bigger later if you realize you need more of a star player. Yeah, and it doesn't hurt anything, honestly, a move like this. You're betting on what we saw after the trade deadline last season. You're betting on some of your internal progressions from your Max Christie types on this roster, potentially becoming role players. You're betting on hopefully some combination of Jackson Hayes and Tori and Prince

and these guys being relevant parts of your team. But as far as the five goes, I think there's an honesty in that. In the games that matter, AD is going to play the five. And so would it really behoove us to bring in a bigger bodied center versus any of these other offseason additions? Jackson Hayes is kind of a five, but he's a slider five. Christian Wood is going to get outmuscled by your Nicola Yokic type, certainly if you throw him into that particular fire. So like, let's be honest about what we are. Rui would never getting muscled by someone like Yokich in a playoff setting.

I quit. He guarded him. I quit this podcast. Man, yeah. All right. No, yeah. I'm optimistic about the Lakers. Not as optimistic as I was around this time last year,

which I'll just have you know that I was like, this team could be something if they just get quality players. They almost like they went in that direction and doubled down and tripled down and quadrupled down where it's just like, there's just a lot of dudes. And they're kind of hoping that the depth will carry them through the season and then figure it out later. I think they'll ultimately get to a point where they realize they probably hit their ceiling

and they might get an itchy finger to maybe swing, like package some of these guys together for a higher level upgrade. But I guess at this point, they just need to make it there in the first place and we'll figure it out from there. All right. Shall we get into the actual question since this was more of like a tacked-on addendum? Yeah, let's do it. Okay.

First question. will any of the tradies in waiting holdout and a resort to subterfuge? So unlike the NFL, which a lot of holdouts seem to happen there for whatever reason. I'm not like a CBA expert for the NFL. You rarely see guys just sit out and curb fines and try to force the team sand. We've seen it a little bit more recently, Ben Simmons being the prime example. James Harden, of course, another example. I believe he waited until, was it the season that started or the preseason started before he showed up in the fat suit in Houston?

Yeah. And he was just popping around Atlanta. And I think he said he was training. He was training in Atlanta and Vegas getting ready for the season. That's where we all learned what a honey bun was when I guess rich people just gift each other wads of money, which God, I wish I was a part of. Maybe we should do that for our white elephant. Duffel bag of money? Well, we'll see about this offseason, depending on how my contract negotiations go.

But I'm wondering for you, a lot of Dame Lillard chatter, a lot of James Harden chatter. I guess there's like a subsection of Pascal Seacom chatter where there's like maybe one conversation going in time like multiple chatterings. Do you think any funny business is going to go down once training camps start to break? I mean, Damien Lillard, I think, is going to show up and do his. job for the most part. Yeah. James Hardin, I think he's going to be, I think he's going to be there. I think he's going to answer the questions.

I think on Media Day, it's going to be awkward as hell because I think he'll be as forthright as James Hardin is willing to be in an interview setting about his level of discomfort and what he wanted to happen and the fact that it hasn't really gone that way. And so if that counts as subterfuge, I don't know that being honest really does if he shows up at Media Day and reports as needed. But I see him taking more of the, the Ben Simmons approach to this school of like, he's going to technically be there.

I don't necessarily see him playing super hard or, you know, really, really making those hard cuts in practice. And I don't see him like really dedicating himself delving into the nuances of the Nick Nurse offense. But I think he'll be there. And we'll, I'm not sure if that'll be enough or not. because as we know with Ben Simmons, they just kind of yanked him from the action in that situation.

As we saw it James Harden last time, they let him kind of go through the motions in the preseason and then just ended up shipping him out. And it feels like we're headed in that direction. It's just a matter of how long it takes. So none of the 15 or 20 assistants that is now on Nick Nurse's staff is not going to be designated the Hardin Whisperer

in order to maybe get him to buy in here. The Sixers had the gall to some, celebrate the signing of some player development coaches and video guys. And people like you, people like you, Justin, you're just making snide comments about it. You know,

these grinders, this is the lifeblood of the NBA ecosystem and you're just turning up your nose at them. I needed bifocals just to read who those grinders are. So I'm very happy that they made it onto the social media infographic, but unfortunately, I have no idea who you are. But I wish you the best in what seems to be a very fun season to come for you in Philadelphia. Yeah, I guess the question is like, does he do more damage by not being there or by being there and then just being kind of a jerk about everything?

I would honestly think the latter would be more of a distraction. And it did seem like that is what set things off in Houston to ultimately trade him out into Brooklyn. It wasn't him holding out, although that certainly compounded the issue and definitely made things more of a pressure point. But it was him showing up and saying shit and just loafing around where Houston finally the owner was like, get him out of here. Let's cut the cord. And so Josh Harris might be busy these days now that he owns the Washington commanders. So maybe like he is going to be checked out regardless. Maybe he's turned off his notifications for training camp and this won't make much of an issue. But I would guess that Harden showing up and just like just being a.

jerk is the way to go if he doesn't want to. Yeah, because there's obviously at this point things that James Hardin or Damien Lillard can't say, right? Fines have been levied. The rules have been made clear as far as like what they're allowed to say above board, but you're allowed to voice your displeasure. And I agree, if you're there, every question is going to be about you, you know, every question to all of your teammates, to the coaching staff, every preseason game, opponents are going to be asked about you too. like the whole dialogue and narrative around the team until there's some kind of resolution

is going to be about James Harden for as long as he continues to show up. So there is a power in that, right? There is a pressure you can apply just by being there and kind of half-assing it and making it clear that you wish you weren't there. Right. And to that point on Wednesday, as we're recording this,

there was a big old ESPN article dropped about one James Harden and everything that led up to this point where he's having this breakup up with his long tenure GM, Daryl Morey. I don't know if there was much there beyond some color added to what we already knew about this situation, but at the very least, like, this is going to be front page news for a while. And I believe Harden even like Instagram, whatever about it and saying like, you know,

no, these are all lies, yada, yada, yada. So that's actually a little bit more verbose than he was. I believe his comment response on ESPN's post was, quote, lies. Yes. He did also Instagram story something about like maybe I should do some reporting of my own, which like I would love to be the editor for that story. Yes.

Look, James Hardin, anytime you want to get your bylines off, we got room for you over here, you know? You want to host a ringer podcast? We got you. Yeah. You want to talk winning time? Let's go. I actually do want to talk winning time. I don't know if we could shove it into the back of his episode, maybe.

It's been quite good. Uh, wow. The last episode is very good. I think the, well, really the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the brodie seagull two-hander, the, the coaching dynamics, that stuff is great. I have my quibbles with the rest. But we, Brody. Yeah, yeah. Can't go wrong.

I think we're in agreement there. Well, otherwise, it seems like everything is pretty quiet on the actual trade negotiation front. It seems like just based on various reports that the Blazers and the heat

aren't really talking talks of stalled between the Sixers and whatever team is willing to step up and trade for James Hardin at this point. It does kind of seem like both teams forced into trading these star players are kind of waiting desperately for another team to come in, and at the very least provoke the heat, the clippers, all of these expected suitors to actually give the final offer,

to give them everything that they want. And I actually don't blame the Blazers and the Sixers for holding firm here, more so the Blazers than the Sixers kind of are a mess of their own design here, specifically Mori's design. The Blazers, I just don't see how, even having Lillers, or round necessarily affects them all that much. I mean, he seems to be going about this as professionally as possible, basically ignoring questions from Mark Spears rather than engaging with this and really

trashing them, which I thought was really classy of him. And their season is going to be playing for a top five pick and hoping that Scoot does a lot of cool dunks and Shaden Sharp makes progress anyway. So, like, I don't know what they're sacrificing by waiting, which is, I know a sticking point between our friend Wozni and I. And so I'm just wondering, are there any teams that could jump in the mix? I have some down here that I could throw at you,

but if you have some you want to throw in, I'll give the floor to you first. I got a couple. I think any dark horse type situation in these derbies really has to be driven by two things. One of them is picks, just like these constructions, they're just like four or five first round picks

thrown in there and spite. It would have to be the blazer saying like, you know what, Dame? We know you want to go to Miami. We are so sick of this, like, calling your shot one team shit. We are not willing to do it. And therefore, we will trade you to team X. I don't see that as necessarily being the most likely outcome,

but it's kind of the road we're going down if we want to figure out, like, who are the mystery suitors who could be at the table. What do you think about Utah for Damien Lillard? It could be a Jordan Clarkson. You could theoretically. I don't know if he wants to go back home. But again, that might not necessarily be his call. And if it's like a Clarkson, Ochoibaji, Taleb, Horton Tucker,

and as many picks as you can throw in. And Utah is in a unique position because they have all of these unprotected firsts from Cleveland and Minnesota, from those previous two deals for Gober and Mitchell, that things get kind of interesting. You know, you want to bet on where the Minnesota Timberwolves will be in 2027. That's a reasonable bet to make if you're the Portland Trailblazers. I don't know if that kind of timeline is interesting.

to Portland, or if any of this works for Dame whatsoever, or frankly, if the jazz are in any kind of rush to become a more competitive team. So there's a lot of question marks, but you could see someone in that front office at least thinking about it. See, you said that a lot of these deals would have to be provoked by mostly spite, or that would be the inciting reason to trade anywhere other than Miami. I think these are just better deals because basically you're inheriting short positions draft pick-wise for teams that you probably have worse futures than the Miami Heat with Damien Lillard. And so if I'm getting the Minnesota Timberwolves, a team that seems to still have some stuff to figure out despite our like just worldwide enthusiasm for what

Anthony Edwards could be in the future and also this coming season. Like I would rather have that than the Miami Heat's picks. I would rather the Cleveland Cavaliers, a team that still needs to figure out what it is, what Evan Mobley can be in this league, whether Donovan and Mitchell wants to stick around, even if Mobley has come to form by the time he has to make that decision. I would just rather that like just boatload a pick, that bushel of picks than a couple of interesting draft picks from Miami and picks that, let's be honest,

might get me like the 25th best player in the draft a certain year. So like, yeah, I would choose that over Miami. I guess the question is whether Utah is ready to make that jump right now. I suspect they are not. but I do agree with your point here about what Portland should be targeting. And most importantly, the triangulation of picks. Because Damien Lillard is really freaking good. And whatever team you trade them to is going to get meaningfully better.

And so do you really want to bet on that team being bad a la Miami as you're describing versus if you can get into these positions with whether it's Utah, whether it's like getting the thunder involved in some kind of three-way trade, these teams that just have picks from so many different places where you can short other franchises that are not the one that's about to get Damian Lillard, that's a pretty valuable thing. And kind of on that same note, I have written down the Pelicans for that exact same reason. And now we can maybe talk about it now, but like Trey Murphy, the third, seems like he's in for a potentially long absence because he suffered a left meniscus injury.

They aren't quite revealing what it is, but I believe Woj said today that it's at least a slight tear, which means that he might be on the shelf for a little while here, which is incredibly disappointing because he was a really fascinating young player that really stepped into his own last season. It seemed like he had solidified himself as like one of the key guys for that team. And for a team that in particular needed his three-point shooting to kind of make the math work with a lot of guys who might bring shooting, but also take something away defensively or just don't bring. ring shooting at all, including our friend Zion Williamson, who most recently was seen pumping iron what seemed to be a studio apartment in New Orleans. I don't know what the fuck that was, but

that was a really weird setting. But it seems like he's working out, which is great. But so I wonder, and there are luxury tax concerns here long term, which probably make this moot, and so this is probably more fantasy than anything. But I do wonder if the Pelicans did want to toss that

concern aside, you send CJ back to Portland, which which would be interesting. Like, training out one disgruntled legend or like Portland. I don't know if CJ rises to a level of legend, but certainly fan favorite for another. CJ would be just contract matching Dyson Daniels as a young player to get back there. I think a lot of people were optimistic about him.

But like the Bucks's future draft picks, and that's a team I, for one, would be lining up for considering what Janus has been saying. Of course you would. these days. Yeah, I really like listening back to your podcast with Waz last week in which you just said everything I said four months after the fact and all agreed that it was a potentially like difficult situation going forward. That was that was really fun for me. I have no comment. Okay. I have no comment at this time. But what do you think about the Pelicans as like a dark horse suitor? I think there are team that you think about it. Yeah. You know,

frankly with where they are in their timeline, like they're poised to be competitive in the present and near future, almost irrelevant of what happens with Zion. You know, even if Zion does not become a long-term piece there in like a meaningful every night superstar kind of capacity, the rest of the team is solid. If you add Damon and Lillard to that team,

or basically in this formulation swap out CJ for Dame, that's a good playoff level team. And in ways where, again, I get why you're betting on the Bucks potentially to have some problems post-Yannis or if Janus leaves. But they probably need to be looking shorter term than that.

Portland is now playing a much longer game than the Pelicans are. And so they're in a position to wait and see what happens with the Bucks. If you're New Orleans, you kind of have to get something going here in these next couple seasons. And Dame is a good way to kind of shortcut that process a little bit. Just get elite level guard play,

a really high-level shot creator. A guy who, to some of the Trey Murphy concern points is willing to take threes on a team that just does not attempt very many threes for some reason, despite having a couple of decent shooters

who probably just need to up their volume a little bit. And so DAME is a great way to kind of you know, just add water spacing to a team that could use a lot of it. Yeah, obviously doesn't help your defensive concerns, but I think when you're adding someone like Damien Lillard, it doesn't matter.

You'll just be everyone 140 to 1.4. to 135 and just go about your day there. That would be a sick team. I would love watching that team. Even if it was for like a short window for however long they can make the math work. Healthy Zion playing off a dame, that's incredible. That's like that was the fantasy we were conjuring up in the offseason if the Blazers had spun the scoop pick for Zion. That was a hot rumor for a week.

That was fun. We probably podcasted about it. Do you have any other team you want to go with? Well, to play the counterpoint to your buck skepticism, what about some Orlando magic optimism? Oh, I like this. Again, another team that is probably like jumping the line a little bit in terms of its developmental process. But it would really be a bunch of random salary filler plus Jet Howard and like four first round picks. But it's, I mean, look, you got to get a take back Jonathan Isaac.

You know, congratulations. You get Markell Fultz and Gary Harris. But I think really the selling points are the picks. You know, you can get Jalen Suggs in there along with Jet Howard. And also importantly, they're in a position to take back Yusuf Nerkich, which is something that I don't think teams are going to be lining up to do necessarily. So maybe there's an avenue there. Again, if Orlando wanted to become competitive quickly, they have that option.

And they're in a conference. If you look at the east, the top three or four teams in the east are pretty solid. After that, things are very open to the point that Orlando could make. make some serious inroads, at least into getting into the play-in mix, if not an outright playoff spot. And if Dame Lillard is on the team, that feels like pretty close to a playoff team. Can I get Anthony Black back in the deal? The question is, do you want to, if you're already investing the way Portland is? Sure. Sure. And then if you have Anthony Black still on the roster, do you want Dame? Yeah, I think those two guys can play together. I think Anthony Black and Dame can play

Oh, yeah, I think so. Interesting. I mean, the difference is the shooting, right? The shooting that Dame has that Scoot doesn't. I think from what we've seen from Anthony Black, again, huge caveats given the combination of lower level competition in a summer league stage, but seems like a really intuitive player who could probably play some off the ball next to a guard like Dame and vice versa, that they could trade off a little bit.

I don't hate it. My only concern is the one you kind of led with, which is do I, do I? I really know what my team is at this point? Do I want to put a ceiling on what Paulo Bankerro can become at this point? What Anthony Black is, what even Jet Howard is, despite many derisic comments. What Franz Wagner is. Right. And so it's probably a year or two soon, but I do think it's the type of thing they should be considering in the near future, just not this future. Yeah. I have two other teams that I want to throw at you. One is the Toronto Raptors. I'll be honest, I don't love this one. It's O.G. and Anobi, whom I believe they tried to

trade for before with the Shaden Sharp pick and then didn't end up happening. You're sending Gary Trent Jr. home for at least the season. He's more just salary-flots him at this point. Precious to Chua, because they need a fucking center for the love of God. Can we get someone that could play the center position who isn't use of Nurkich in Portland and then just picks? And so in Toronto, your Dame, your Scotty Barnes, your Jakub-Burtle. I guess, whoever else is left there, you're Grady Dick.

I think the actual the sticking point, if I could play devil's advocate of my own trade proposal, is I do wonder how many teams at this point, Janice becomes part of the calculus. Janice obviously was rumored

to be interested in Toronto and Miami before he signed the first extension with Milwaukee. If I'm Toronto, am I going to waste all of my powder on Dane? kind of rush the process, don't really give Scottie Barnes a chance to be the guy, and instead get myself out of the Yanis Derby.

Or I guess this is a question for you, like, is there enough left over there to then spin that into a Yanis trade? I don't know, with Dame. So it's then Dame short-term, Janus, long-term. Yeah, you would have to think for a team like Toronto, the way to Janus is Scotty Barnes. Right. That is kind of the centerpiece you would be talking about of a potential Yanis. trade. Man, I wish, honestly, that Milwaukee had a couple of first left. Because wouldn't they be an interesting suitor, right? Or second.

A Drew Holiday, Drew Holiday. And I think they can trade two future first, 27 and 29, unprotected. That's not really enough, given the arms race we're talking about with four and five picks plus other guys. But man, that would be a, that would be an incredible kind of setup if those two guys could end up on the same team in Milwaukee or apparently in, in, in, in, you're hypothetical in Toronto down the line. If Jay Crowder is worth five second round picks, how many second round picks is Janiceworth? I don't know if this kind of conversion rate applies, you know? Okay.

And then the other team I have down here is Minnesota. I mean, Towns for Dame, I believe Bill has talked about it before, makes a certain sense, but it seems like somehow Towns is like the last guy in the list of stars that anyone wants anything to do with because of not only just some of his, what's called them foibles,

but also the money he wants on, that he has left on his deal. So it would be Townsend your favorite player, Nasreed, just to make the salary matches. But I like it for Portland, honestly, but I don't know.

I don't mind it in any direction. I think it could be interesting to see, but I do like that our dark horse picks are all Damien Lillard traits. Absolutely no James Harden alternatives to think of. which I think is pretty illustrative of Philly's position right now. I honestly didn't even consider him. You know, it's just like kind of a foregone conclusion for me that like he's stuck there unless the clippers lose Kauai in the first like month.

Which it seems like Kauai is reportedly in pretty good shape. So, you know, it doesn't seem like the clippers are on that kind of trajectory right now. It was a weird experience seeing the shirtless photo of Kauai today, which is something that I believe the clippers. tweeted or Instagrammed out. It's just like, it just seems like he's the last person who would engage in that culture and maybe like the social media guy for the Clippers like forced it upon him by posting the photo.

But it was just like, I don't know, it was like seeing like an Oppenheimer person at a Barbie show, you know, dress for Oppenheimer, but you're at the Barbie showing. I don't see how that's the case. But you are very plugged in on the offseason social scene today. You're really, you really got this thing. Like, you're absolutely tapped into the latest. I don't know how, because I wouldn't consider myself someone who's like really plugged into social media. And yet I just, all of these things coming across my transom, you know?

Apparently. We got to get you a hobby, Justin. We got to get you doing something. Oh, this season's about to start. That's my hobby. All right. Last kind of sub question to this main question, which is the holdout death pool. I have three stars here listed.

And we have to pin down when they will show up for work. I have Damian Lillard. I have James Harden and I have Wads. Okay, first of all, in defense of my guy, Waz, we have been here. You were kicking back last week, probably sipping my tithes. And Waz and I were out here making content in the dead of summer. We didn't even have Christian Wood signings to pot about. So have some respect.

You know, Waz, he shows up. does his job, he disappears into the dead of night. This is who he is. Waz's takes from his toilet in Stockholm was one of my favorite segments. And I kind of wish we had planned that in advance or gotten a sponsor for it because we might want to bring that one back. Something to think about. But I think Damien Liller shows up for training camp. You would agree. Yeah, day one. He'll be there. James Hardin. Are we talking about when does he show up or when does he actually show up? I think physically just like literally show up at the training facility. I think he'll be there.

I think he'll be there at Media Day. Training camp. I think so. Wow. I'm going to go a week before the season starts. Yeah. Taking it easy. I think the season starts on the 23rd.

He basically coasts through training camp, which she was probably going to do anyway, even if he was on the best of terms with the front office, shows up late there. Um, was. When does Waz show up? He's been here. That's what I'm saying. Okay.

I think we start potting again at the end of the month. So we'll jot him down for end of the month. All right. Let's, let's pivot here. A little World Cup. I guess ripple effects. Uh,

we're near in the end of the Fibble World Cup. We're down to the semifinals, which I believe happened on Friday in the USA, Germany. And then what? Croatia. No, Serbia. Serbia and Canada. Serbian, can I always get Croatian, Serbia mixed up.

Which of these guys is going to make the Fiba leap? Which is typically talked about for USA players, Kevin Durant, probably the shining example of that winning MVP after he led the US to gold in his own World Cup appearance. But I want to broaden the scope a little bit. We could talk about any guys who have been participating here, NBA guys who have been overseas in Manila. Is there anyone like clear cut that jumps out to you from the start?

there's not and I think part of the issue is that it's a rarer thing than we let on that Kevin Durant level jumps do not happen that often certainly at that kind of

superstar caliber and when you're talking about the guys who are competing for other national teams often we're seeing them thrive in a role they will just literally never play in the NBA

you know Simone Fontecchio is not going to be a ball dominant volume like volume score for I assume he's in the Utah Jazz roster. He might even be a free agent.

We need to fact checks in one of Fonteco status. How dare you not come prepared with that information? I remember at one point, I didn't know who that guy was, and you gave me shit for it. And now here you are, just like not keeping track of him. I don't even think that that's necessarily what happened,

but he was lighting up Fiba. He was scoring at will. And he's just never going to have that chance. You know, Dennis Schrooter, not going to do for, the Toronto Raptors what he's doing for Germany or what he did for Germany. He might do what he did tonight

in their game against Lafaye where he shot four for 26. That seems plausible. But will he get 26 shots? Maybe not at that volume, but I could definitely see him missing a couple shots. I think the biggest and most sensible

jump candidate is Tyreys Halliburton. He's the guy who's going to have opportunities. We've already seen him take a bump for sure. But what gives me that impression is when I watch Team USA, there are three guys on that team who are kind of undeniable right now. One of them is Anthony Edwards, who isn't always the most efficient, so I don't necessarily even mean it in that capacity.

Like he has his ups and downs as a score, but there is a command and a confidence there that's pretty clear. And we're still going to see how that translates and what his game ultimately ends up being at, you know, the peak of his powers in the NBA. But the talent is undeniable for Edwards. Mikhail Bridges is the second one, a guy who just shit happens whenever he is around,

offensively and defensively. He's so good at flexing between roles, out in transition, cutting off of the action that Team USA is running really important. But Halliborne's the third one where it's like the second he comes into a game, the pace, the shooting, the athleticism,

it pops. And I mean that in a team-wide context. Like he comes on the floor and Team USA looks like Team USA. And when I think about that and when I think about how the Indiana Pacers want to play, a team that is more athletic

and has better shooting and has a better supporting cast this upcoming season. I think we could be talking about Tyree Saliborne in a pretty different context by the end of the season. He has that Steph-like infectious joy that filters into his playing style that then is disseminated out to whomever is on the court with him. And I'm not actually comparing him to Steph,

but that idea that, like, he can be an emotional leader just by being a smiley-ass, positive guy who's trying to set up his own teammates, it seems like it made an instant translation to Team USA basketball. And obviously it was effective last season for the Pacers. And I think like a lot of people, I'm pretty high on the Pacers this season going into this season to maybe outperform expectations, maybe not be like a top three seed in an East that like

will be a little bit down at the top ranks this year. But I think we'll still have a lot of competition for the top four or five spots. I could easily see them as like a top six team maybe, which for a team that didn't even make the play in last year, in part due to injuries, in part due to injuries to Tyrese Hallibur. And I could definitely see that effect. And the want to not make it at a certain point, right? There's injuries and there's quote unquote injuries. Yeah, he's been awesome. I like you, had Edwards down. I love the, the FBA, like, just environment in part because of the like almost sociological aspect. It reminds me a lot of what I take away from an all-star weekend, where it's that

whole bill thing of like who's going to take the car keys when someone has to like take the reins like who's everybody looking for at the end of games and like there's been times where it's like deferring to step or deferring to lebron and like that's not going to enter my calculus for the MVP or anything like serious like that but it's an interesting data point about like who these guys kind of looked to as the guy and it seemed like that was pretty instantaneous with anthony edwards it wasn't maybe not instantaneous because he came off the bench and then told Kerr memorably that like obviously

Kobe wasn't in his way when Kerr tried to use that as a reason for why Dwayne Wade came off the bench but like after they got through that it seemed like everyone's like oh this is the guy and to your point like I don't think he's played that way every game he hasn't had the same sort of galvanizing effect

or just like lifts all boats effect that I think Che has had for Canada but it's clear that like everyone sees something with Edward And I think we have to take note of that and realize that like this guy is probably destined for superstardom. If he was like a top 25 player, like we should expect him to be in the conversation with the Shays in the top 10 range like pretty soon. Yeah. How your peers respond to you and think of you and in this case defer to you is incredibly meaningful data point. These are very high level players.

We're not talking about necessarily the LeBrons and Stephs of the NBA, but other all-star level players are. quasi-altile level players or at least very good NBA role players are all looking to you in these moments basically by default. And that's, and again, not because Anthony Edwards was handed the keys in ways other stars necessarily are, but it just kind of sifted out that way where he was the guy who was willing and most importantly capable of taking that kind of responsibility and load. And he really wants it. And that stuff matters too, right? Who was who was the guy who was reaching for that kind of responsibility? He wants those shots instead of shying away from them. Edwards has always had that quality, sometimes to his detriment, sometimes to the point of forcing some stuff, he probably shouldn't force.

But you love the audacity with a player like that. And we're, again, we're still waiting for that to translate to the all-NBA level that he potentially has in him. But maybe this is the season for that, or at least maybe this is a season where he kind of takes a meaningful step in that direction. Yeah. And the last guy I have down for USA is just Paul Bancaro. definitely not on the like kd level of leap but i could easily see him taking a step forward from like just like rookie of the year clear-cut best guy in that class with all due respect to chat holing who hasn't had an opportunity to show what he could be i actually think chad holgram might be the

leader for rookie the year this year but that's a whole separate conversation um bank carroll clearly should be in the all-star conversation this year like just so clearly talented in the way that he's he's basically downshifted to being a a backup center and is still having a pretty substantial effect for that second union, I think is notable. Now, like, if the USA had an actual backup center, maybe they wouldn't have had so much of an issue with Lithuania. It's a whole other issue, but it's not Powell Bancaro's issue. And he seems to just like he has it, whatever it is. And I feel like that's shown even though he is playing backup center, which is obviously not going to be his role for the magic. Yeah, he's the kind of guy who,

when we're talking about extrapolating FIBA play, it's more about can you take elements of what's made you effective on the Fibah stage, right? This handoff game, some of the downhill stuff he's been able to get playing off of other really good shot creators, other really good guards and wings. That's something he hasn't really had in Orlando yet. And something that as some of his younger teammates come along and come of age, as Franz Wagner continues to develop as well, his capacity to play off of those guys is really promising.

I don't know that I saw that out of Powell last season just in his time for the magic. I was kind of figuring out what is he going to be? Who is he going to be able to augment at a really high level? And this tournament in his performance, and it speaks really well of that, not only for who he's going to be for Orlando, but man, you bring this guy back with the utmost,

like, highest level superstars for the Olympics or any other international competition where his teammates are even better than this. He has even more to play off of. I mean, he could be incredible in those kinds of contexts as well, which that's a really promising and really interesting player. when you're that kind of adaptable.

The only other guys I have written down here, obviously Shea, but I almost wonder if Shay took the leap during last season. What's interesting is like, so we're doing our top 100 voting these days for our rankings, and unfortunately, I've been dragged into being both a voter and a blurber this year. And so I've had to really. Welcome aboard, Justin. Really reaping what you have sewn on this one. that's going to shut me down on social media immediately is when those first go out and I can no longer look at my mentions.

I did have, I probably ding Shea when I was ranking these guys originally because I was like, you know, I expect him to continue this next year. I'm not a doubter. I'm not zagging on Shea. You're talking about when you're ranking the breakout candidates, not when you're doing top 100 breaking.

No, no, just like the top. When I'm ranking like the top 10 guys. So in comparison to like the very best players in the league, And I was like, I expect this to continue, but like he doesn't have the body of work of like a LeBron, for instance, or even a Jimmy. And so like I defaulted originally to those guys because I'm like, well, you know, you never know with someone trying to follow up on such a gangbusters breakthrough season. But good God. Like he is so freaking good. He's 1310 and 4 today against Slovenia, basically dueling Luca. And while Luca was out there just complaining about every fucking call. Shea was just like going about his business, trying to calm down Dylan Brooks failing, but still carrying the team in other aspects. But so like, I guess on one hand, maybe he leaps into MVP consideration again or like it's not a surprise that he is on the ballot again like he was last year. But I definitely don't think last year's a fluke. And like if there's any doubt about that,

like if any single human has a doubt about that, you shouldn't because it's not going to happen. Yeah, that would be my only. caveat in the conversation of the Fiba jump is he's already a top 10-ish player, depending on your tastes in the NBA right now, already a first-team all-NBA guy last season. Jumping off of that means you're in the Steph, Yokic, Janus kind of range. Not outside of the realm of possibility in the long-term for Shea. Like he clearly is already at this level, so who's to say he couldn't reach that one, but he would have to show something pretty significant.

I think it's safe to say that he can more or less repeat what he's done. I think so much of what he does is impossible to take away in terms of the cadence and the touch and the skill he plays with. Those are very difficult things to deny. And now we're seeing him in increasing leadership roles with the Thunder, with Team Canada, and the poise that he's playing with. The sense of the moment that he has already,

incredibly impressive stuff. So I hear what you're saying and it's kind of the huge problem with trying to rank guys in the top 100 context is like how do you measure the body of work of a LeBron against a guy who just made his first all NBA team last season?

But man, I feel as confident and as comfortable banking on Shay as any young star in the league right now. Yeah. Well, one of those guys that I also felt confident in, and I guess still do, was Luca. who had just been absolutely gangbusters this Fibah tournament. Unfortunately, you got the full Luca experience in this game against Canada.

And by that, I mean, he eventually defaulted to a mode where he had to take every shot. And on every shot, he was either trying to draw contact and or complain about the contact to the referee, to the point where he eventually went down, swing, and got his second technical in the fourth quarter and got ejected. And so this kind of is a nice segue into the third question, an hour into this podcast, we have on our list, which is, which team are you talking yourself into as training, as like the lead up to training cap kind of goes on. I had the Mavs because I'm just like they have enough able bodies next to Luca, enough interesting guys on that team that just having just league average rotation players and enough three and D wings and enough potential three of D wings was going to be enough for Luca. to do some damage, especially with Kyrie there to take off some of the offensive burden. I'm just a little bit more concerned, and I know it's probably silly to do so because Luca's going to be incredible regardless, but man, at some point, he needs to stop doing this. He needs to realize that as good as he is being everything for his team, just complaining about

everything just has a trickle-down effect. And it seems like a pretty traditional trajectory for superstars where they are really good basketball players and then they realize that like their personality and their leadership actually has a direct impact on winning. And so maybe this is like a pretty tried and true NBA story. On the other hand, he's just such an extreme at this. I got to wonder at a certain point if like this is just going to be damaging and he's doing as much bad as good because he's basically just warping everything into just this like chaos tornado of his just like bitching and moaning all the time. I draw the line that does as much bad as good.

Because Luca Dodges does a lot of good. Yeah, that was a bit much. He put a little too much mustard on that one. A little too much mustard, but let's scrape off a little of the mustard. And there's some truth on there somewhere, which is, look, flat out, you're just, you're bleeding points in transition, arguing about some of these calls you're not getting. You're putting a lot of pressure on your teammates who then, because you're not getting back, Biggs are getting called for fouls because they have to take.

it in transition or they have to stop someone at the rim by any means necessary. And plus, I think to what you're speaking to about just kind of the ethic it propagates within your team, like, what are you encouraging? Like, what is the personality of your team if your best player is constantly on the officials in this capacity that doesn't trust himself and the people around him enough to just get back and play it out? It's not a great look for one. And I think you've got to have a whole conversation about like how likable is Luca

because of how much he complains to the officials. I think people would rightly and understandably be a little annoyed by that. But just strictly in basketball terms, it hurts. It hurts your team when that's how you want to conduct yourself. And when he's on the record saying he needs to do it less, his coaches are on the record saying he needs to do it less. I'm sure you could probably, you know, I don't know if his teammates have said it in front of a microphone, but under truth serum, God knows they know he needs to do it less. It's a huge deal. And it's not going to stop the maps from being a promising team, as you said, there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about what they've got going on, not least of all, some of the additions that they made this offseason, you know,

getting Grant Williams, getting Seth Curry, Dante Exum played really well in Fibah, another guy who could be an interesting role player for them and kind of the Josh Green, like athletic facilitating mode. I like, now the mustard is coming from you. But it's Australian, it's Vegemite is what it is. You know, we're not, but I believe in it to some capacity. Moreover, when you just look at what the team is, things like parting ways with Javelle McGee

and getting wingier and switchier and more athletic at positions that matter, those kinds of things are going to pay off in addition to the elephant in the room of just having Luca and Kyrie on the same team for a longer stretch to see what that is. Yeah, I'm not abandoning my Mavericks optimism. And ultimately, this is probably more an optics thing

than it is going to affect the actual, basketball. But maybe I just came to terms with like the toll it's going to take on me having to suffer through all of this in a regular season in order to finally get the MVP level Luca Donchick season, which like up until now I expected. And I guess I still expect. Like it seems like people are sleeping on that assuming that we'll get another Yokic Janus Embed showdown. I honestly think that Luca should probably have the highest odds for MVP just considering the way they set that team up and considering the way that like he looks a little slimmer in FIBA and also looks amazing as per usual. So the MVP season is coming.

I would bet on it this year. And if not this year, it's going to come in the future. But what, what team are you talking yourself into? So I have the MAVs. And I also have the Pacers down. We talked about them with Halper. Is there anyone else? I have two teams kind of on different sides of things.

In terms of a team that I'm talking myself into competitively that I think is just going to be really good. And probably we need to consider. as a likely or at least potential conference finalist. The Warriors, getting a full season of Andrew Wiggins back, throwing Chris Paul into the mix, and maybe most importantly, just getting Jordan Poole up out of there, I think it's very easy to focus on, you know, the Nuggets as a likely returning favorite.

We talked about the Lakers. They're going to get so much airplay and a lot of attention. And rightly so, the Sons are going to be a buzzy pick for a lot of people. I think the Warriors are as likely a conference finalist, if not more so than the Lakers or the Sons, given their pedigree and their roster, even with everything we saw. Like, the Lakers were and are a tough matchup for them.

They still don't really have a lot of size. That's always going to be tough for them to contend with. But I think they could really beat up on and torture a lot of these other teams in the field. I hate it. You hate it? I don't buy the Chris Ball thing at all. I thought he was like just,

if not on the verge of being completely, washed, then outright washed at various points of last season, including the postseason. And like, I don't know how they're closing out those games when everyone is like just like a mighty might. Like there just is no size on that team. And even a guy like Clay Thompson just like doesn't have the athletic ability to maybe make up for that. And like I don't get the warriors. In fact, do you have the emotional bandwidth for another fake trade that I've been like like secretly least doing on. I simply do not, but I feel like you're going to tell me anyway.

Who says no? Carl Anthony Towns for Clay Thompson. The Minnesota Timberwolves say no. Really? You think they're just, with all due respect to Clay, that's like a dump your star for a guy who is, as you said,

passes athletic prime, has not been himself since these injuries, has had incredible moments, incredible stretches, still won a champion. championship since coming back, but let's be honest about who Clay is right now. And it's not one of the 20 to 30 best players in the league. But if you're

worried long term about the financial implications of Towns's deal, if you're the wolves, you add a helpful player now who could clearly get out of Anthony Edwards way, stretch to court a little bit, empower him as the go-to guy. Rudy Gobert, you just have to

grin and bear until his contract runs out. But I think like they are a better team the wolves next season with Clay Thompson as opposed to like is that a cat? I don't want to fool around with this this double center front court situation. Like I this is your issue. No imagination, Justin. You just want everything cut and dry as simple as possible.

I know everyone wants to be optimistic because Kat's injury kind of limited how often we got to see it last season. But I have no hope for it in general. And I definitely don't think it's viable in a playoff setting. like I think there will be times where Nas Reid should probably be out there when you want to go smallball against a team like the fucking Golden State Warriors as they're currently situated. And so like I think the wolves are better next season with with Clay instead of towns. And I think long term like towns basically being center Steph Curry from three point range is a pretty good person to have next to Steph Curry. I mean, don't get me wrong. Carl Anthony Towns Golden State Warrior is something I would be very

interested to see. I'm not, for one, I'm optimistic about this team. So I'm not in necessarily the mode to cut bait on what they've got just yet. I think there's room to shore up

around the edges. I have just, just a tremendous amount of confidence and faith in what Steph Curry can do in series that matter. And with any kind of healthy roster and as much help as you can give him, is going to be about as much

as most teams can handle. And so, again, just getting a full, even a full season of Andrew Wiggins, I think makes a pretty profound difference, to be totally frank. Our producer, Ben, Golden State Legend, just typed in the chat, lies. That was to you.

Yeah. Yeah, to me. What is the other team you had on your optimist list? Just on sheer watchability, I'm ready to watch the Detroit Pistons this season. I'm ready for that experience. I'm ready for them to get some of their guys back. I'm ready to see phase two of Cade Cunningham's career. But mostly I just want to see how everything sorts out, right?

Like they have so many interesting young guys who could be and will be on the floor. You know, not only from Cade and Jaden Ivy to like, you know, they just got to start Thompson in the draft, right? Like we're going to get some veterans on the back end to that Boyan Bogdanovich coming back to make this more of a real team again. Not to mention the ongoing adventures in James Wiseman. Like I don't know what any of it is, but they are going to be. beyond my like, oh, it's the first wave of East Coast games league pass. Detroit Pistons are going to be a fixture in that rotation for me. I can I can already tell. I don't know if I'm even going that far. No. I'm a Cade Cunningham believer, but I kind of want

to see him prove it and then I'll catch the wave when it's happening. There's just so much for that team to figure out. And pretty much every team that was banking on Victor Webben, Yama, please save us from our own mistakes, sweepstakes. There's just like, Like there's nine centers. I guess Zerr Thompson seems pretty interesting. You play pretty well at Summer League. Jaden Ivy, not so much. But yeah,

they got a lot of young guys. I would probably rank them pretty low on my young team rankings, but I'm here for you if you want to pass along what you've gotten from those games. I'll bring it along secondhand. We'll do a full Detroit Pistons episode come like the dog days of February when we need some content. But yeah, I don't think they're going to be good at all. But I do think they're going to be pretty watchable even in the chaos. Okay.

Fourth question, which team are you increasingly worried about? So who are you becoming pessimistic about? I think it's too early for that almost. Like who? Coward. I mean, there's the obvious. Like, I'm pretty worried about the Sixers because the vibes are horrendous. And they lost rotation players and barely added anything.

at all, not to mention they may just like lose James Hardin and get back like two role guys in return potentially. But they don't seem like they count. Step aside here. Someone just put up the frowny face emoji like the bat signal. And here I am to save the day. Well, we talked about the Pelicans. That was the big one on there. The Tray Murphy injury just sucks. But I'm really happy for Zion that he was like pulling like cords and it looked like his muscles were flex. It's it's big for him and for the team. I also have the Celtics. Like, what the fuck Christophe's Porzingis?

Just like, it seemed as soon as the ink was dry, his foot just like exploded like right in front of Brad Stevens. And all of a sudden he can't play for Latvia. Like, they are banking on him so much to make things work. And to just have a functional center amidst this just like increasingly. well, interesting one and potentially very good, but frustrating is all hell, center rotation with him,

Robert Williams, and El Horford. And I just cannot believe that they put so much faith in the Christopps revival tour as the way to make things work after last year's flub. I just like,

man, I cannot go through another season in which we are tracking whether Christops Borzingis will fucking play like an all-star, will play in general, it's just I'm so low on the Celtics

even though like I'm sure they'll probably end up with the top three seed but emotionally like I could already tell that this is going to hurt me that that team could win the title yeah I'm sure

without Christops maybe maybe and I think like the top of the east is going to be worse this year even though the same teams will be there it says more about the east than it does the Celtics

I I I understand the precarity of stacking the injury risks that they have, they still seem pretty good, right? I would take the Celtics problems over basically any other problems of any other Eastern Conference team at this point. Speaking of certain teams taking the other team's situation, did you see the quote from Josh Harris where he was like, yeah, a lot of teams would take our situation in five minutes?

and I was like, that's actually not a quick response. Like actually, someone is considering that for a very long time and then is ultimately concluding that I guess they're in a worse situation. So they'll take there's five minutes is a very long time. And I don't think that's what he was actually going for. It's a while to be on the clock. You know, if the Spurs had been there and taken the full five minutes

to select Victor Webbenyama, like, did they, were they really so sure? Exactly. All right. Last question. What other storyline, person, place, or thing should we be keeping an eye on as training camps drawn near? How ready is Chad Holmgren to be a meaningful NBA player? I think if we're trying to figure out who are the teams in the West especially that could upset the established order of what we saw last season. The Thunder are a great candidate to do it.

A lot of young talent that should come along. We've already sung Shay's praises. But if Chad Holmgren is a relevant rotation player who's making a meaningful impact from day one, as you said, and I agree, should be the rookie of the year favorite, that's a all of a sudden very, very interesting. But he's a guy who has and does have a lot of work to do on his body. We need to see kind of what he is positionally as a pro. But I can't wait.

I can't wait to see how he fits in with this team given just what they were able to accomplish with work a day, plug and play kinds of bigs. Thunder definitely top of the league pass rankings with a bullet, right? Oh, yeah. that's a broad appeal. I might watch 82 games. Yeah.

As you damn well should. Any others that you have on your list? I think there's a lot of depth chart watching, you know, Golden State for one, as you mentioned, like, what, where is Chris Paul playing and in what capacity and kind of how does he fit into things? But also on the other end of it, Phoenix, like which minimum guys actually play and which are just kind of window dressing for the roster. Utah, I'm wondering who they're starting guards are at this point. We saw a lot of guys because of injuries

cycled through those spots last season. They added John Collins, who's going to be, I assume they're going to start Mark and Collins and Kessler at 3, 4,5. So do you let Tailen Horton Tucker play point again? Are you just running like Clarkston, Clarkson and Sexton as one,

two together, which seems pretty redundant. Chris Dunn might have something to say about it. He actually gave them some pretty good minutes last season if they wanted like a defender in that group. So there's a lot of kind of depth chart battles that I think we can watch closely as we get a little, you know, as camp really approaches. But certainly some things to keep an eye on whether you're talking about who is actually going to play these NBA minutes or like who you're drafting for your fantasy team.

Like there's a lot of different elements of intrigue with that stuff. Who is the next Omer Yert 7 on Rob's radar this year? That's number one on my list. I think it's Peyton Watson he's almost like too popular now like the Nuggets Nuggets fans like treat him like Kobe Bryant at this point

I mean there's maybe a young Kobe Bryant maybe this is a whole storyline in itself is like full on Peyton Watson watch is he an actual NBA rotation player tune in and find out find out Peyton watchson okay that's our recurring segment

we're going to check in at the end of every single group chat episode. What has Payton Watson been up to this week? Because what we need is more Denver Nuggets content. That's for sure. Of course. The only thing I have written down is Portland real estate. I'm getting those Redfin updates pretty regularly. Yeah. I'm out here. I'm watching. I'm thinking long and hard. How's the market? Not great in comparison to other small markets, but much better in comparison to a Los Angeles market. I'll tell you what. So again, anyone, any Portland real estate agent, I am here for you. You're the only DMs I will ever reply to is someone trying to help me find a home in Portland. So just let me know. Well, at one point, you know, you had kind of tethered your career to

Anthony Davis, right? Like, you moved to New Orleans for him. Is this you moving to Portland? Like, are you on like Kevin Knox duty? Who are you plugging in with there? Matisse Thiebel? Jeremy Grant, you know, we're going to do like a fashion podcast together. Love it. Maybe it's a vlog. Yeah, that's going to be my pivot. It's really going to set off my career. You're just going to challenge Waz directly, just one-to-one competition?

He does shoes. I do anything from the face to like the navel. Okay. I think we need to get this in writing to really, really segment up the body to afford, you know, I just don't want any conflict on the pod that we can avoid. we'll sort this out before training camp that's what for the next couple weeks or four um on that note thank you to ben cruz on production thank you to isaiah blakley who is also returning here i love to see our guy isaiah back on the knobs um we'll be back closer to training camp probably the end of

the month but i'm sure rob will tweet out when we're coming back on his very popular social media feeds and you can look for it there uh until then we'll see you