The Ringer NBA Show - Five Biggest Names That Could Move by the Trade Deadline | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

Justin and Rob are joined by Steve Jones Jr. of the Dunker Spot Podcast to discuss the biggest names that could be moved by this Thursday’s trade deadline, including Kyle Lowry (02:00), Lonzo Ball (09:00), Aaron Gordon (16:00), and more. Host: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Guest: Steve Jones Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football season is never over. The Ringer NFL show has got all your football needs covered from free agency to the draft and so much more. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Group Chat, the Ringer's weekly NBA group discussion where we always have the wow factor. I am Justin Barrier joining me today, Rob Mahoney. Extra wow today, I would say. Yes, definitely. And our special guest, a man of many ATO plays and breakdowns,

Steve Jones, what's up, man? How are we doing today? And I'm not buying the wow factor. There's no way that's a real thing. If it was, they shouldn't. It needs to go in the scrap heap with playoff P and all that good stuff. That's the kind of detail you just can't let get out.

You can never let anyone know that you had those plans. You can't be the wow factor and have that record. I'm sorry. I'm just curious who thought it up. Do you think it was John? Do you think it was Stephen Silas as he was like just doodling in his notebook trying to not really like kind of get away from all of the losing that was happening in front of them.

It leans towards Silas just because of age, but I think it might have been Christian Wood. Right, right. He seems like it. The new Amari, basically. So today we're going to go through a bunch of the best plausible fits out there on the trade market, trade deadline market. basically we're going to take the top guys and look at some teams that they've been rumored to land at and kind of look at which players would fit in the best situation. So I'm trying to take advantage of some of Steve's expertise in that field. So let's just get into it right now. Let's start with Kyle Lowry here. And so we're talking about teams that they've been rumored to land at.

We're not doing any, you know, Lakers photoshopping. We'll leave that for Rob to do in his off time. So, Steve, let's start with you here. Where do you think Lowry's best fit is among the teams he's been rumored to go to? I think overall, overall would be the Clippers. I don't think that can happen. So I'm going to go with the Philadelphia 76ers. I think that's going to be his best fit as far as what he brings to the table.

Mainly because looking at their team, one of my big issues with them is late in games. What do you do when you're down four? down five. You need a perimeter bucket. It's Tobias Harris and then who? And Bean's been great. Ben Simmons has been great, but Lowry's going to give them that dog there.

Layton games, he can defend. He'll fit right into their scheme. I think his ability to play make will also help. You can balance your lineups out a little bit more. Playing with the starting unit, playing with the bench.

So his ability to create space for and defend, that's probably my best fit, as far as realism goes, the Sixers. Yeah, I think this is, this is Occam's Razors' Revenge, right? Like, it fits so cleanly, it's so obvious what he could do for that team. And as you were saying, Steve, like, not only does he fill out, potentially their starting lineup to really get them into a contending space. But Lowry has, like, a decade of experience playing with a bunch of bench guys, making those viable lineups.

And really, at this point, anything to, like, cut down on the Ben Simmons, Dwight Howard minutes, I am totally game for. So let's do that while we're at it. But it just everyone wins. And I think what it would excite me most about Lowry being in Philly is he would allow Ben Simmons to just be no caveat one of the best players in the world. Because once you slot Simmons into a slightly more comfortable role where he doesn't have to do so much of the stuff that isn't natural to him, then all of a sudden he's just an all world defender who's also enormous and also a great finisher and also a great passer. All of his great quality show out when you put a guy like Lowry with him. Yeah, I almost feel like this one's a cheat because Lowry is almost. made to make this lineup just a little bit better.

Like he doesn't need the ball. He could shoot. He could space for Ben a little bit more. He really is. Like, he's made so many different combinations work in Toronto. Like, I'm sure he can make this one even better. But I do want to talk about Miami here too here because this is like the rumor du jour.

It seems like Philly, Miami are the two teams in hot pursuit. No pun intended there. But the Miami one is really interesting because in order to get him, you're probably dealing from, I wouldn't say core, but at least from your starting lineup, like Duncan Robinson and Kelly Olinick would probably have to go there. And you're just hoping, like, maybe a Bam, Jimmy,

Lowry and whoever's left kind of core, big three, big four, whatever, is enough there. Steve, what do you see from like, Lowry and Miami? Are you, like, buying that as like a potential team? Like, he would be the guy to take them, like, into that elite in the east.

I wouldn't be surprised if the move happened, but I don't know that I think it jumps them up into that top tier right now. It would make them better. And they'd be taking a big swing for this year, but I don't know if big picture-wise it helps, because you're going to give up Duncan Robinson, hypothetically. And even though he's struggling,

he's a big piece of what you do as far as off-ball movement goes as far as how to make defenses pay. And while Lowry is much better as a ball handler and can open things up in that respect, you're losing that depth, you're losing some of the things you do in the flow, And so I don't know how much Lowry Butler BAM scares the rest of the East as opposed to what you have right now with Jimmy occasionally going off. You have Bam emerging.

You still have your movement stuff. You have shooters, different lineups. So I don't know if they're at that level where that pushes them over the top. It makes them better, but I don't know unless they want him long term. But I don't think that's the move that really raises the level. there's a funny thing going on here too with these specific two teams when you're talking about

what the trade packages would look like because the heat have to give up theoretically someone like Tyler Hero and if we're talking about what the Sixers would give up for Lowry it's much more of like a oh Kyle Lowry wants to go there and so we're going to accommodate him

kind of move where maybe Tyrese Maxie and you probably have to go up Danny Green for salary reasons I don't want to get into the nuts and bolts too much but part of the reason Philly is such an ideal fit is when you think about the plausible trade packages,

they wouldn't have to give up a lot of their actual on-court talent right now, save maybe a maxi who's kind of in and out of the rotation or Matisse Thibel or someone like that. Yeah, and it's interesting. Like, most of the reporting suggests, like, they probably would stop short a trading hero. I don't know. It's just weird because it seems like if they were going to go for it, they were going to put some of these young guys in the package, non-Robinson, whatever, you would have heard them more in the Hardin's, like,

trade scenarios, and actively ejected from those conversations. And so, I don't know, is Lowry the guy that you really want to deal Duncan Robinson for? I mean, the one thing we should mention is he's going to be a restricted free agent this offseason. As we saw last off season, someone like Joe Harris is going to get the bag plus several other bags in addition to that. So it's going to be pricey. And so I guess it's a weird pivot point inflection point for this franchise where it's like, okay, if you want Duncan Robinson over Lower, you probably have to commit long-term, long-term money as well to it. So it's interesting.

I don't know. I guess the question is, do we think Lowry long-term would be a fit there in Miami? Let's say, for instance, they don't trade for him. He hits the free agent market next season. Do you think, like, Lowry plus some of those guys that we've talked about is better? Is a team that can compete with, like, a healthy Nets team? I like what Lowry would bring to the heat, no doubt. I just don't know if you would want to dismantle what you have to get there.

He's got the toughness that Miami loves. He's got the ability to not just operate and pick and roll, but dribble handoffs. He can space the floor. He doesn't have to have the ball, even though he can't operate with it. So I like what he would bring to the table. It's just, man, like their age,

I start to worry about it at some point as far as those numbers go, especially with how those other top teams are going. So I like the idea of it. I just don't know if it's as big of a home run as it may, some may seem. Can we circle back for a second something you said, Justin, you know, this has been a really long season. I had

completely forgotten that Pat Riley put out a statement that the heat were withdrawing from the James Harden Derp. How insane is that? I honestly can't remember any time that a team so publicly got the hell out of there on a trade negotiation as that.

Yeah, and I think the question is, did they actually get out of there? It's a great question. Because now no one actually knows when people say things publicly whether or not that's true. It's actually to the point where when people say things not publicly, that is more true than when they say them publicly. It's such a wild, like, meta sort of thing going on in the NBA now. Is there anything you want to say not publicly on this podcast? No, I can't say that. Okay. We'll save for the post game. It's all about, we're not trading sharks, is what I'll say. All right, let's move along. Lonzo Ball, probably one of the more interesting guys in the trade market,

if only because he's actually starting to play particularly well of late. He had been a guy. I think a lot of teams have been circling. And then all of a sudden he became kind of the 3-and-D point guard, off-guard that I think the Pelicans hoped he would be in the Lakers too. But he's still seen his name in trade rumors. Steve, is there any team you like for him? I mean, he's been attached to a couple, like, hawks, bowls, a few more.

So you have your pick of the litter here. But is there one team you could see him going to, and that is like a really good fit for him? Bonzo could help a lot of teams. So a lot of teams he's attached to, I go, oh, that makes sense. It's probably a good fit for him, good opportunity based on what he's done.

I'm going to go curveball here. I'm going to say the Clippers. Ooh, I like that. I like that one. I'm going to go with the Clippers because, and I'm not the biggest fan of the Clippers need a point guard take. I don't necessarily disagree with people who do it, but it is what it is.

I think he fits what they may need, because they need playmaking. I don't think there's any argument about that. I need more playmaking. So he has the size to keep them switchable defensively. His shot has improved so he can still space the floor. And he's got the ability to play, make, and create transition in the half court, pick and roll. You can run them off handoffs.

You can do a lot of different things with them. So his skill set to me would fit with what the clippers are needing to sustain what they're doing offensively. So I'm going to go there. That's my curveball for the day. What is your beef with the clippers need a point guard take? The issue is there's rarely a name that gets attached to it. And it also forgets that you have both Kauai Leonard and Paul George who are going to need the ball in different scenarios. So it's not going to be like a traditional point guard who's going to really organize the offense.

You're probably swinging it to Paul George and not the way or Kauai is going to post stuff and get it. You know what I mean? It's a little different. So I feel like that piece of it is missing in the argument. I'm not necessarily against it. I think they could use some help there. but it's not the answer. Well, as you were saying earlier,

I mean, it's one thing if we're talking about Kyle Lowry and if that's plausible, which it doesn't seem like it is, and another thing if it's point guard X, I'm totally with you on that. For Lanzo, I'm kind of really coming around on the Chicago option. And the tagline for me is

everything the Bulls like about Tomas Sautoranski, but better. A little bit more athletic, a little bit more versatile defensively, but still a ball mover, still kind of a combo guard. And he fits with all the guards they have in like a lot of different permutations and combinations.

I like that as kind of the best young team slot for Lonzo, a group he could kind of grow into and grow in with as this, he's kind of a positional weirdo. Like he could fit with a lot of teams, but especially when you compare Chicago to something like Atlanta, for example, where I wonder how much is he really going to see the ball,

does he turn into more of a pure spacer in that kind of capacity next to Trey Young versus, you know, Zach Levine gets you some of the rim pressure you need with the way he's playing this season. he's driving a lot more, but he also needs help in terms of just running offense, in terms of getting the ball up court. Lonzo kind of fits into the pace they play.

He fits into the motion. This is a team that's really reliant on passing to score. I kind of like how he slots into what they do in a seamless way, where they wouldn't have to really change that much, and they'd still be, you know, hopefully even more competitive for the play-in spots and the playoffs this season, and then they have this guy who still has some room to grow

if they're talking about their long-term court there. Are you not a Kobe White believer? I am a look sometimes when a guy looks like a six man and shoots like a six man and sounds like a six man he's just going to be a sixth man

and you're going to Jamal Crawford him just like that man I don't even think it's a bad thing like let Kobe White live let him let him live his best life off the bench coming in gunning they're already basically doing this it's just a matter of now you have Lonzo Ball instead of

Settoransky to plug into that starting group and it just kind of fits a little cleaner and you have some better defensive of optionality. Yeah, my thing with Chicago is, I just don't know what their long-term identity is. Because you could say Zach Levine, right? Like, he stepped forward. He's this All-Star and maybe going forward, like, he could be the guy there.

But he's a free agent next summer, not this summer, but the summer after. And it's like, is he going to want to stay there? Like, are the Bulls going to want to empower him as their number one guy going for? I guess if they don't have anything else, like, he's the guy. But I don't know if you want a de facto superstar as like your long-term. identity. Steve, what do you think about Levine there? Like, are you a believer based off of his production this year?

Is he going to be a multi-time all-star? Is this kind of just flashed to the pan? I'm a believer in what he's done. I don't know multi-time all-star because I think it's going to be tough for him to sustain this level every year. But I think he's shown he's got a different level than I think we had

thought coming into this year. As far as being able to score consistently and proving the pull-up and proving, you know, making reads and pick and roll. He's not all the way there yet, but he can read the defense, suck him in, kick it out, make those kind of plays, which he hadn't been able to do before. So there's definitely progress being made. Does that push him all the way to the next level?

I'm not so sure yet. This season, I was holding back because I wanted to see, what does he do when defense is locking on him consistently, on a consistent basis? And he's been, don't get me wrong, he's been tough to deal with. But as the season wears on, you can see fourth quarter number slipping a little bit, Bulls struggling to finish some games. So I think this is a great year for him to develop. And now we'll see next year if he can hit another level or another step.

But it's also hard because he hasn't necessarily had the playmaking help. You know, it's pretty much him and dad as the primary playmakers right now. So it'll be interesting to see what his next step looks like. That's actually Thadjik Johnson. You know, we got to see his full name on this pod. I'm sorry. My bad. I do love that he's become like the new old Draymond Green all of a sudden.

it's like he's the new version but he's also older. With Lonzo, my thing is like, why trade him? If every team needs a 3 and D off guard, if everyone's saying like, oh, he's actually a really easy fit with a lot of different teams, like maybe he's a good fit with Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamson. I don't know. It seems like a little bit early, especially because you don't know how much he's going to make

on the restricted free agent market. Like maybe he makes a ton, but like there seems to be this boogeyman with a lot of guys, like with John Collins in particular where everyone's like, everyone's like, oh, he's going to make so much money. He's going to make so much money. You've got to get out there. I'm like, can we wait and see?

Like, where's the rush with New Orleans? That's my thing. Yeah, I mean, if you're already a capped out team or near being a capped out team, that money doesn't matter that much, to be honest with you, especially if it's a guy like Lonzo who's going to be movable for all the reasons we just laid out, very attractive to a lot of different situations. So I agree with you. I think the just re-sign a guy, even if he isn't going to be on your team in five years,

is always a viable strategy. Like, be open to the moment of having him and moving him if you need to in a couple years or a couple seasons, whatever comes up. But I don't see any need other than the fact that if they're just really scared by his potential price tag. All right. Let's take a quick break here and we come back. We'll talk about some of these other guys. All right. We're back. And we're going to talk about the guy who's in literally every trade rumor this week. That is Aaron Gordon. I feel like I've seen him connected to half of the league at this point. And it makes sense because his skill set is probably adaptable. A lot of teams need a defender at that kind of three-four position.

Steve, is there a team that you like for him? There's three, and there's only three for me. I'm not going to go through all of them. But the three for me, it's the Blazers, it's the Nuggets, and the Celtics. And of those three, I think he would pop the most in Denver. But I think he's probably needed the most in Boston right now. Okay. So I'm going to go there.

Why don't we take Denver first? Let's go Denver. You know what? I like that because he would be able to fit the needs as far as having more athleticism in the lineup. And you can kind of be a little bit more versatile with your lineups. So Millsap, I still love Paul Milap. But this will lessen the load on him. You can play him as the four hypothetically, along with Porter Jr., Barton, or Harris,

if he comes back, Murray Yolk, however you want to do it. So his ability to fit in defensively, his ability to create offensively, When he space the floor, if you're going to help off of him, he can knock down some shots, but he can also beat you off the dribble. He can be a screener as well. So, I mean, you talk about he can even screen for Yokic, see what happens. So there's different ways you can use them, different skill set. They like to run, so get him in transition. I think he would help lift them up another level with his size, ability to guard some of those wings out there.

So I like that fit the most. You tricked me into it. Steve, you're speaking to me. You're really speaking to me with this Nuggets pick. I got to say, especially when all the trade options for Aaron Gordon come up, I feel like Portland is the easiest to, like, slot him into and realize what that would look like.

Like, okay, he's the playmaking big, who's going to roll off of Dame and CJ. We get what that looks like. With Denver, it's so much more kinetic and free moving. And as you were saying, like, if he's just like the upgrade over Paul Millsap, if he's dunk contest Paul Millsap or playmaking, version of Jeremy Grant, who they've been kind of pining after losing, you know, pining for

after losing this season, that's a really good player for them. That fits what they do so well. And he slots alongside Michael Porter Jr. really well, too, where now you have a guy who can guard the toughest cover between the three and the four every night, who's going to give you good help defense, who's also going to give you some of the playmaking. Now, is this exactly what Aaron Gordon is looking for in, you know, coming to basically be the fourth option on this team? And a guy who, you know, the athletic had reported that he's looking for a big market with lots of branding opportunities.

I don't know that like North Face or Camelback or Key, whatever options are available. You know, do fleece vests come in player edition colorways? I don't know. But, you know, I'm willing to try. For the sake of the good basketball, I want to see Aaron Gordon on the Nuggets. Man, I hadn't heard that.

That's great. Yeah, I mean, this whole season, it's funny because Charks Row after the Jeremy Grant signing happened, and like they were like rude the day that they'd let him go, even though like they tried their, their hardest. But it really has shaped up to that is their Achilles heel at this point. And Gordon would make a lot of sense there.

I've always said like, I mean, I think everyone has said for at least like four or five years now, like his best place would be on a team where he could just be that sort of Swiss Army knife defender. You don't really have to feed him much on offense, but he could do everything else for you, whether or not he thinks that is another question. But the Celtics one is also really intriguing to me.

Steve, you want to walk us through that one because I feel like they've been also attached to every power forward. And I think like Gordon might be the most intriguing to me. I mean, they've needed a four all season long, in my opinion. And I think for me, the biggest thing is Aaron Gordon unlocks their lineups a little bit. You know, if you look at the Celtics best lineup, it's some version of Kimba, Tatum Brown, Marcus Smart, and a big. You know, pick your big depending on the day. But it's, It's a big. If you can throw Gordon in there, now you have your small lineup.

Obviously, smart's being attached to it, so I shouldn't talk too fast. But that's the part that intrigues me the most is what he can do with what they already have. You know, that's a guy who you can run off triple handoffs. You can use in different ways. He can guard multiple positions. And it's a need for them. So it's more of a based on need for them as far as their lineups go. I just haven't liked what they've had to put out there.

It's either two bigs, one big. and maybe you have two small guards, so you're just unbalanced. They just need someone to kind of balance it. It could be Harrison Barnes. You know, that could do that for them. But I think Gordon would just be able to enhance what they're trying to get done

as far as versatility goes. Well, and the commonality of those two situations is both have enough ball handlers that Aaron Gordon doesn't have to do a lot of it for himself. He's not just creating from the perimeter like a traditional three would. It doesn't have that kind of excuse. use to mess around with the ball, which I think is healthy for him.

My question with Boston, and this is really kind of a philosophical question with Gordon in general, is how do we feel about him as a potential small ball five? Are we comfortable with him in that slot? How do we feel about the team rebounding if he's your only big on the floor? That's kind of where I get stuck with Boston a little bit. What do you think, Steve? I like it because the other end. I think offensively you get more than you probably give up defensively.

I mean, because as good as Tice is, there's still issues potentially rebounding. So I like the idea of him being able to have the size to switch multiple positions. And again, this is, again, thinking to keep smart, he can also switch one through five. So you can really kind of manipulate it a little bit. Hopefully you get enough rebounds to figure it out. But I like the idea of that. I like them having at least something in their back pocket. I mean, the Miami series, they almost came back and won it because they had a lineup.

But so for me, it's, it's, it's, that's the sticking point for me. Get something. Get someone. Although that would be interesting at the Boston crusade of trades ends with Aaron Gordon. Right, right. I know. We go from Kauai to Paul George to Aaron Gordon.

I mean, at least it's not Vooch, who is the other guy. They were linked to who's like a good player, but I don't think he fits as well. Is Gordon there? No, I think it's interesting because to your point, Steve, I think it gives him identity, right? They could be that like super small team. that just, like, scores an absurd amount of points and gets teams to match up with them. And I also think that, like, we're assuming that they're going to play those four guys,

Kemba, Jalen, Jason, and Smart if he's still around there. And, like, they don't have to. Like, they could easily just bench Kemba, like, help themselves out on the defensive event and play, like, Gordon and Tice. Yeah, I know. This is tough. As a Yukon graduate, this is tough for me to bench Kemba. But, like, I don't know what I'm going to get to him on a night-to-night basis, let

a little month to month or even like playoff to regular season. So it gives them some versatility and gives them a little bit more there. So I could see that. The speed in which you said that. Sorry. Just the speed in which you said that. I wasn't prepared for it. Yeah.

Okay. It's just casually throwing away. Casually throwing away former All-Stars over here. I mean, that's kind of where they're at at this point. I mean, if they could trade combo, they would. As we talked, we were talking to Jared Wise last week. It seems like they wanted to. and they just never got around to it.

But I mean, okay, we'll talk about them just briefly here for a little bit longer because they've been attached to a bunch of other guys. Do we think Gordon is the best among those power forwards? Because as you mentioned, well, John Collins is the guy we're going to talk about next. Is Collins another guy who couldn't fit in there, even though you're probably going to pay more? Is it Harrison Barnes because of his particular skill set? Rob, who do you like for them overall? I think to me, Collins makes more sense in that slot.

Some of this is the positional versatility. getting a little more 4-5 versus 3-4 relative to the Aaron Gordon comp. And I think offensively the dynamism of Collins. I'm pretty high on John Collins in general. I think he fits a lot of what these teams are looking for, who are looking for fours, who are looking for playmakers to be supplemental to their star guards. He slots into so many of those situations so well.

So I like him for Boston a little bit better than Gordon. But if we're talking John Collins, one team I've been kind of surprised that hasn't been floated out there is Phoenix. And because, okay, so from the jump with John Collins, because of his salary, you know, he's not making that much money this season, you're looking at teams that don't necessarily have a lot of salary to give up or don't want to give up that much salary. You're looking for probably more of a young player or picks based kind of compensation for him. So if we assume that the hawks would be open to something that's more picks based and Phoenix could get in on that conversation, let's turn the Sons into an up-and-coming super team. Let's turn the into a team that has a real young talent base that can explode, that has an even more versatile four than they've got, that can move Jay Crowder to the bench, that can play with DeAndre Aden, or if we want to whisper, replace DeAndre Aten in crunch time like Dario Sarich is doing sometimes.

Right, right. Again, similar to my Lonzo replacing Tomas Ataranki take, you're bringing in John Collins to be a better version of Dario Sarich, who's, if I'm not mistaken, I think Dario Sarich is the single, the single player leader in individual net rating right now. Unbelievable minutes from Dario Sarge in Phoenix. And really that bench lineup in general.

But if you have John Collins to fill out that starting lineup there, man, I really like the possibilities of that. I love that. Dario Sarge, probably best player in the NBA right now, but we're going to bench your ass

because we got John Collins. I mean, I think the issue there is just like, I could see Robert Sarver in his vault of gold de blooms just popping his head out saying like, How much are we going to pay John Collins next season

when we're already paying Chris Paul 40 million, Devin Booker, a max, DeAndre Aitin, probably something close to a max eventually, to regardless of how much or how well he's playing? I love the idea of it. You found the fatal flaw in my plan. You found the fatal flaw, which is it requires the sons to spend money. So maybe that's dead on arrival right there.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the fit is super intriguing. With Collins, Steve, is there a team you like for him? Well, but quit to the Phoenix one. I like the small ball five. Collins is a small ball five because technically I think that's his best position. It's just really hard to get to. I like that one.

I had Dallas. But I had Dallas mainly because if you have him and Prozingis and Luca, you can figure a lot of things out. You have two bigs that can screen and roll. You have two grades that can pop. One can space. One can roll. So you can alternate things. You can make sure you have someone to line up constantly,

which Dallas is at their best when they have two complimentary bigs like that. And then he can play with Luca and you can open up spacing, get more gravity, get some kickouts, get to your driving kick, hopefully make some more shots, and then Dallas looks like Dallas again. So I think what he brings to the table offensively, I would like to see that in Dallas with Carlisle, rolling, dribble handoffs, running in transition. It seems to have the skill set that would work.

Defense would be interesting if those two were there, but that's an adventure that's an adventure for Maxie Kleber to figure out sure well and not to I mean against my better judgment I'm going to invoke

the Luca Tre Young comparison because I was watching that Hawks Clippers game last night and in crunch time of that game Collins is it kind of in the post in the mid post with Luke Conard on his back and just cannot get the ball from

Trey Young I mean Trey's barely looking at him and that's a place that Luca makes that, you know, like he will set up guys in those positions. He will find you on Dukkins. If you are open, he will find you. Trey Young can be a brilliant passer. But the compatibility of John Collins and Luca to me fits a lot better than the compatibility of Trey and John Collins. You really hate Trey Young. That's rude and uncalled for. I just feel like this is a running like through line for these podcasts where you're just like,

I always bringing up that teammates don't like them and, you know. I have the audacity of liking players who play defense. I'm sorry. I apologize. I apologize. I love it. I love the little hint of spice we have going there, Rob. Thank you. Collins, to me, I've always been fascinated by the Hornets fit with him. And now I know, like, putting him at center, as you guys just well-documented very thoroughly,

would make some really complicated defensive fits there. On the other hand, I just love the idea of the Hornets just leaning into this identity of being like the 2007 Phoenix Suns and they're just going to run it up on people. I also don't know like long, like first of all, they're the type of team that would trade picks in order to get a John Collins because they see that their window is literally this season, even after the mellow ball broke his wrist.

And so they're probably the most likely team to really pay the price in order to get Collins. And two, I like the idea of them, again, finding an identity as an offensive team, being the team that just like runs teams off the court and makes teams match up to them. I don't know, just like I love watching the Hornets and I just want good things for them and this would just make them even more exciting. Let's drill down on the small ball five part a little bit more.

Steve, if you're thinking about John Collins in general as a player, how many minutes would you want him at five versus four do you think? I want more minutes at four than five. I want five to kind of be in the back pocket maybe with a bench lineup or a closing lineup or then as the thing that he does because if that gets beat, it's hard to put the toothpaste back to two. So I want more minutes at the

four with the opportunity to play the five. So now you get the versatility. As opposed to he's just going to be the straight five man. Now teams just switch and now you're limited option-wise. It's kind of got to be a wave for me with Collins. That makes sense. I mean, especially with the way he's played with Clint Capella this year. I think he's shown

he can fit into those roles. He could play in my scenario with a DeAndre Aten some. He could play even with a Cody Zeller or a Bismack Beyondbo if we want to talk Charlotte some. But I think obviously his value is unlocking those small ball situations where he could just help run teams off the floor. Yeah, and I also think it's like it's easier for teams to find just a Scrappy 5 to play

some of those minutes next to him. Like if you're talking about Charlotte specifically, maybe not beyond the long term, but like someone like him could probably go in there and spot a couple minutes. Maybe they actually, hey, what do you know, draft somebody who could just be like the next Nick Claxton for that team and all of a sudden you have like those 20 minutes at five next the column that make that team work a little bit there. I don't know. I'm kind of a Collins apologist. I really like him.

And I think he would be like enough of an upgrade over like the PJ Washington, you know, Miles Bridges types where he like gives them something they go. I like both those players. But like I just think like he's a much more dynamic offensive player. And I think he would just level them up in a way that makes them really more interesting. Justin, this is our corner. It's you and me sitting at a table on a college campus. John Collins is good.

Prove us wrong. And Hornets are back just screaming at them. Listen to me. Can we talk about one more John Collins' destination that I have seen rumored and do not understand, which is Minnesota? Like, aside from the wolves just needing more good players, what is the appeal of a Carl Towns John Collins' front court?

Offense. Yeah. I mean, the offense is nice. It's just like, but especially when you're talking about, okay, these other groups that could be overwhelming offensively where he's a piece putting you over the top, the wolves to mirror so much of a team that's just trying to get to level.

They're just trying to get to ground zero so they can start building. And getting DeAngelo Russell back will help with some of that. Fitting all their pieces together, it'll help some of that. I'm just looking across that lineup. And if all of your best players

are question marks on defense, it puts you in such a bad way from the start that I don't know that I would really love that kind of arrangement offensively. Or even contrast a team like the Nets where it's like, okay, plausibly, Kevin Durant can be the best defender in a playoff series if he wants to turn that on

and he's healthy enough to turn that on. all these offensive first teams have a player like that. I mean, I know we're far away from the wolves even talking about getting into the playoffs, I realize, but I would be just so suspect about throwing a bag at John Collins if that's what your team looks like. Yeah, I've never really understood what Minnesota is doing here. I think they need to make a trade or two in order to sort this thing. Long term, I don't love Russell and Anthony Edwards together, and you throw in whoever they're going to pick at the top of the draft,

if they do keep their pick. Like, it just makes it way more complicated. But, like, maybe not Collins, but I do love Gordon for them. And I think he's a really intriguing guy. I think I might even mention this earlier in the season, like a Gordon for Russell swap. I don't know, like,

what would need to go both ways to make the math work for that. But I kind of love that for both teams because, you know, the magic had been thirsting for a point guard for five years since Jamir Nelson probably. And so I am also a Russell. Apologous, I think he needs probably a change of scenery. He needs to be kind of like the only guy who needs to be touching the ball and like everything needs to revolve around him.

I can see that fitting for both teams. I don't think I'm going to sit with you. I'm not going to sit with you at the DeAngelo Russell Apologist table. I'm going to leave you to man that one by yourself, I think. Okay. But what about in Orlando? No, it's hard now. Steve, what do you think about DeAngelo Russell potentially in Orlando?

I don't like the fit. Yeah. Especially with the two point guards they got. Everyone's down on DeAngelo Russell, it seems like. That's what I'm saying. Buy low. He was hurt this year. Orlando shouldn't buy that.

That's not going to be a good fit. Let Markel Fultz and Coe Anthony figure it out. DeAngelo Russell with Steve Clifford? Well, I mean, he dealt with Malik Monk for what? Like a couple seasons? like he's dealt with guys like this in the past on the bench which is where Russell might find himself

I don't know man Fult's coming off of the injury I probably haven't seen enough of Cole Anthony to have a real educated opinion but he's hurt too right I don't know I think I would do it but I could see the hesitancy there I do like the Aaron Gordon fit

in Minnesota though and certainly the Timberwolves do I think they have a pretty well documented history of wanting him on their team. So, I mean, I like what he could do for them more than Collins. All right. Let's turn to a former Orlando Magic Guard, potentially a future Orlando Magic Guard, too,

considering the way the trade winds are blowing. Victor Oladipo, who is riding a high now because his Houston Rockets are on a one-game winning streak after losing 20 straight. The clip of John Wall hugging Stephen Silas after that win is just so heartwere. warming because you can tell that both of them have just seen a lot of shit

over the past couple weeks. Steve, who do you like for Oladipo? I'll probably go Miami. That's probably the one for me just because of his ability to score. You imagine they could use him off the bench second unit, close some games if he's

playing well, still contribute to winning. It's not necessarily all the way to three levels right now to scoring, but he's still a playmaker. And if he has a and role partner like Bam out of bio. It's going to look a little bit better than it has in Houston at times where small, not necessarily had all their guys.

So I think O'ODP has more in the tank scoring-wise. I think he would help them off the bounce. He's someone that defenses are going to pay attention to. He's still a threat. And those are all things that will help Miami. So that would probably be my choice for the fit as far as right now goes. I think the BAM part of that is what could really help O'ODepo. And it's, you know, especially as a guy who,

If you're coming back from injury, who hasn't had quite the same burst in terms of getting to the rim, and who's really reliant on that, on revving up and blowing past guys at his best in Indiana, it's just a different geometry. It's a different math when you're talking about a dribble handoff game or an elbow handoff game, where you don't have to have that same speed.

Like Duncan Robinson can get to the rim in Miami. If he can do it, Victor Oladibo, can do it much more frequently. And as Steve was saying, you get a little bit more ball handling, you get something that can play off of the fact that, I mean, Miami has really had it tough because they've had so many overlapping guys struggle shooting at the same time. And if you can offset that,

offset some of that risk with someone who can drive a little more, who can handle a little more, I think he probably makes the most sense there of any good team. Now, you could put Ola Depot on a lot of bad teams and say, get healthy, put up numbers, let's see what you can do. But Miami's the best team where he wouldn't feel like a burden to them.

He could actually, I think, help some of what they do. Yeah, you would imagine the cost to get him is probably low at this point, too, because if all teams are expecting him to hit free agency and maybe walk next year, like, you could probably get him for, you know, a first or something like that. It sounds like based on some of the intel that's floating around right now, like the rockets are giving up first round picks in order to get back like an Aaron Gordon type. So it's a weird market, which leads me to wonder, how do we feel about Ola Depot in L.A. with the Clippers? It would be really tough considering just like how few acids they have. And I don't want to discount the Luke Knarr Renaissance that is currently ongoing. And by ongoing, I mean last night out of nowhere. But that's an intriguing one. I don't know if it's a perfect fit, but they do love guys who used to be successful elsewhere and probably are a little bit like past their prime or a little bit dinged up.

So it would fit like their identity. And I just, I don't know. I wonder if like, I wonder if he could rehab his value playing on a really good team. and the clippers can just slot them in there and maybe just be better for it. Steve, what do you think about that possibility? Well, my first thought, I was trying to figure it out what a lineup would look like with

Hawaii, Paul George, Morris, and Victor Oladipo. How many passes are we getting from those scores? Not that they are talented. Oladipo's ability to score fits the clippers. I don't like how he would do it with how they're playing. just right now. They're slow.

He can be a ball stopper. And so they're probably going to ask them to come off and pick and roll. You're probably going to get pull-ups. They don't run enough handoffs anymore to where you can open that. So he could give them bench scoring and stabilize that unit. I would love that. I think that would be great. But then how do you blend him with the starters?

Does he blend well with them? Does he become a third threat? Is there enough pace to, get that going. That would be my concern with him to the clippers. It could work, but it also could result in 20 seconds of dribbling. I mean, I think the optimistic version of both of these deals of a heat situation or a clipper situation is that by putting Oladipo in kind of a tertiary role, hopefully with stars he respects, with guys like Butler, with guys like Leonard and George, that he would be willing to play off to the side a little bit more, would be willing to take a

different kind of role. The issue there is then you're relying on him to be your guy in the corner, you know, in a crucial possession. He's the one who has to knock down that shot. I don't love that for him necessarily. But I do like the idea of, you know, the more you can kind of shift him out of a dominant role in your offense. And I mean, the Houston numbers are what they are given their roster and their needs, but the usage is just off the charts. That ain't it. That's not the Victor Olatibo that any. good team needs. So hopefully they'll have some flexibility wherever he ends up going, whether it's, you know,

potentially now in a trade or in free agency, to find a spot that's a little more comfortable role-wise for him. The trick is reconciling that with the fact that he just turned down, you know, reportedly a massive extension from the Rockets relative to where he is now. The kind of deal that a player in his situation with age and injury, I mean, I get why he would want to explore the market, but that money's not nothing. Right. So are there any trades out there?

that we've discussed that we really want to see here. I think those are pretty much the big five as depressing as it might seem, or as anonymous as some of these guys are relative to some of the other big stars we've seen moved in the past. Is there anyone you like want to see moved or any of these deals you want to see happen, Rob? I'm trying to think of anybody else. I mean, one other Ola Depot destination we didn't quite get to is if you're looking

more at the bottom end of the spectrum, if you're looking towards the bottom of the standings. What about a team like Detroit? I guess it's a parallel situation relative to Houston in terms of what you're asking him to do and what you're putting him in. But that team needs ball handling help. It could use somebody who could, you know, a little bit of shake to their off the dribble game like Oladipo has.

I could see that. Or if you want to aim a little higher than that, would Memphis be willing to throw their hat in the ring? Hmm. Oh, that's interesting. You know, I think that would, they would have to be willing to punt on some of their younger guy, like a Dylan Brooks type, you know, at least, at least you're investing in Oladipo in a way that shifts some of those role players into different spots, but they could,

they could use a little bit of what he's got. Hmm. And you like that with Morant there already? I mean, I don't love it, but I think the reality is every Victor Oladipo trade destination is complicated. And so it's what complications are we willing to deal with and what are the teams who would maybe welcome some of those complications if they can get some of the other stuff he does well.

I take Eladipo in the fourth quarter for Memphis, because right now it's jaw, hoping that they don't make him take a pull-up, and then it's Dylan Brooks, unafraid of everything. Yeah. And that's the fourth-quarter offense. So at least let O'ODP make a play and make him make a decision and see what happens. So I can see it. I don't know what John Moran's ultimate future in the league is going to be. I mean, he's such a dynamic player.

You can use him in so many different ways. but seeing him make huge offball plays in crunch time, I mean, it does kind of bend my mind a little bit to the possibility of having someone who, you want someone who can share the responsibilities with him of ball handling, obviously, but do you want him in more of an offball role sometimes as a cutter, as an offensive rebounder?

I mean, he's so intuitive in seeking out good opportunities in that I'm eager to see what that looks like for him when that eventually happens. Steve, is there a deal out there that you've been eyeing? You want to see? I want to see Toronto make a trade. Whether it's Kyle Lowry, whether it's Pascal Seacum, they got to do something. Do something different.

That's my biggest desire for this trade deadline. Make a move Toronto. Please. Norm Powell, yeah. He's the guy who it seems like if you're not getting Lowry, can we interest you in a Norm Powell situation is happening now? Well, what's our favorite Norm Powell spot? I mean, the Sixers, I think, could make a lot of sense for him.

I was going to say Philly. Yeah, any team that needs like a little juice off the bench and, I mean, Norm Powell's bringing all the juice these days. Like, he's been incredible this season. I think Philly could really be really compatible for that kind of game. I like him in Denver. Denver could be interesting. What do you like about that one?

Just the scoring that he could provide, help that bench unit a little bit. Give him a little two-in play. I like that. I like that for them. I mean, I guess hypothetically, the Knicks, too. They need some personal scoring. I don't think they're going to do anything, but he can work a lot of places, man.

While we're sending Raptors' guards to the Nuggets, I didn't realize until we were doing this exercise how much I wanted to see Kyle Lowry and Nicola Yokic play together. That would be incredible. And I think they're in a position math-wise where, you know, like Gary Harris and some stuff, and again, all these deals are going to hinge on picks, I think, with the Raptors and in terms of what they're willing to take back

to get their guy where he wants to go. And, I mean, who knows if death, Denver's that place or not, I would suspect not. But that, again, the least needy point guard in the league in terms of his role and usage and what makes him good paired with Yokic, paired with that kind of offball instinct, I mean, I would love it. Raptors are sad, man. It's tough to watch.

All the fans in Tampa Bay are just really upset out there. They have to flip on to race season now. I feel like I looked away for a second and they lost nine in a row. Like, when did that? It jumped very quickly on me from a three-game skid to a nine-game skid. Nine in a row and also, like, helped the rockets break their streak, which was brutal last night. I think they lost to the Pistons recently and another really bad team. So it's not like they're just getting beat by the Celtics or, you know, the nets with KD in there.

It's just, it's really tough. Save the Raptors. That's our message for this podcast. All right, Steve. Thanks so much for joining us. this week. Anything you want to plug or where we can find you? Twitter at Steve Jones 20. I post a lot of clips there, breakdowns, and then the Dunker Spot podcast every Monday, me and the Kai's Dunkin. So those are my

plugs. I'm not good at it, but I'm getting better. You are already better than us at this. Your audio level is crisp. Your takes are much better. So you're already a pro. Thank you. Thank you for having me, y'all. Appreciate it, Steve. All right. We'll be back next week. Thank you to Big Kerm on production. We will see you next week when we will have some trades to talk about.