The Ringer NBA Show - Four Draft Prospects You Should Start Looking Up Now | The Mismatch

Episode Date: April 10, 2020

We chat about whether the proposed NBA H-O-R-S-E tournament will be entertaining or a bust (1:31), before reviewing the news that the Bulls will hire Arturas Karnisovas as their new executive vice president of basketball operations (6:15). Then, amid uncertainty about the rest of the regular season, we look ahead to the NBA draft and give four prospects we think you should be familiarizing yourself with (16:05). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. We hope The Ringer can provide you entertainment and companionship during this time. So as always, feel free to check out The Ringer.com, where we're still covering the latest in sports, pop culture, tech, and media. And The Ringer's YouTube channel can provide endless amounts of entertainment. You can find that at YouTube.com slash The Ringer. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Varner. And joining me as he does every Friday from The Ringer.com.

It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.O.K.K.K.K. Kevin O' controversy. Kevin opinionated. Kevin O'Connor. How you doing on this beautiful Friday? Everything's great, you know, given the circumstances and I'm excited. I was going to say not everything. No, well, I mean, listen, that's why I couched it, given the circumstances.

And I did find myself highly entertained by the subject that we are going to do today with everybody now hearing all the names of kids that are declaring for the NBA draft, we wanted to put together a list of four guys that each of us would recommend people go check out on YouTube and their highlights as they are looking at this NBA draft. That may not be all that familiar with the names. This is for certain an NBA draft year where there is less familiarity, even with the top picks than I can ever remember. because you did not have conference tournaments, which is when everybody really hones in. You didn't have the NCAA tournament,

which is really when everybody hones in. And then you didn't have so many of the top prospects either playing college basketball or even playing in America, for God's sake. So we've got a lot of guys to research and to gather opinions on. Before we get to that, a couple quick news notes, the horse competition is going to go on this weekend. this is one of those things where it felt like

you know I guess if you told me the people were playing horse against each other and everything else was going on then I would have very little interest but if you tell me

that a horse competition is going on now I am so desperate for anything I mean I will say I'll watch it I will watch it I hope it's good That's where I'll come out on this. I hope I will watch it.

I hope it's good. The question is, though, are you going to gamble on this? Can you? I mean, I don't know. They have odds out. Trey Young and Chris Paul are tied as the favorites. Then you have Zach Levine at plus 350. Mike Conley at plus 450.

Paul Pierce plus 750. Chauncey Bill is plus 800 of the NBA players. And Allie Quigley at plus 1,000. Tamika Catchings. at plus 1,200. And that's according to betting news. Listen, of all the guys that are in it, Trey Young should be the favorite.

Because the ability to hit the extraordinarily long shot is always difficult to defeat. And I will tell you, I saw him a few weeks before the season was postponed. I showed up early to a game that the Hawks were in town. and before the game he was standing at like the half court circle, right? So where the half court circle is, he's on his side of the court, but he's standing right at the edge of that circle. So we're talking about three, four feet inside half court.

Sure. I watched him make seven in a row, Kevin. Seven. He's got touch, man. Like the, it was like the Curry thing where it was like, okay, nobody's out here. And obviously you see him shooting from logos in almost every, every arena he goes to. But this was like on the other side of half court and I watched him hit seven in a row.

And I'm like, what is happening? This is outrageous. He is. Being that that's still in my mind, there's no way I could bet against him. I mean, I would like to place a small wager if there's a website out there to easily do it. But I just think it would make it a little bit more fun. But my main thing is, Trey Young tweeted earlier this week.

He's like, I'm just going to take all half court shots or whatever. I don't want that. I want these guys to get tricky, you know? Yeah, right. You know,

flip the ball up like your long snapper. I want to see some fun stuff. The one in that mix that I think we can count on doing that as Paul. Yes. I guarantee you, with all the years in the league, this guy's got trick shots. There's no way around it.

Mike Conley's just going to take float. all day. That's all Conley's going to do. I don't know if Conley's got trick shots, but I do know that Paul does. You know what I mean?

And we're talking like the behind the backboard stuff, the bounce it off the ground and up and in. Like he's, he's that kind of crafty guy that will not just shoot the ball. He'll at least try all the crazy stuff. I look forward to seeing how the quality is, right? Or is this being filmed on,

you know, iPhones? Right. Sure. Or is there like a single camera in each gym? I don't know. I mean, I just look forward to seeing how this is produced by the NBA and the ESPN. It's got like from a media perspective, I want to read the Brian Curtis, you know, article reviewing what happens at the NBA horse competition. Almost more.

I want to actually watch the horse competition itself. Well, we will have a complete rundown of what we saw in next week's show on The Ringer. There is real NBA news. and that is the Bulls tabbing Denver GM Arturist Carni Shovas as their new VP. Carni Shovas comes over from the Denver Nuggets, who we have many times lauded for their ability to put together a roster. I mean, look, they would have guys injured and they would bring in guys that were totally capable. Like guys, they could bring off their bench like a Beasley or like a Michael Porter Jr.

that could maybe get you 25 points in a game for God's sake. They have done a very good job evaluating talent and putting together a roster. And so look, if you want to be good many times, you hire somebody from somewhere that has been very good. And I don't think that's a bad job, honestly, Kevin. Like, I told you, you got talent there. It's good job. There's talent and it's a big market too. It's a big market.

You've got some stuff. If you don't like all the talent, you want to redo the roster, you've got tradable assets there where you could improve quickly. And so you kind of line it out. You decide, okay, of these guys, who do I want to build around? And then you go from there. But the other ones become tradable assets. You decide, do I want Zach Levine for the long term to build around? Do I want Wendell Carter?

Do I want Lori Marketing, which Kobe White? How do these guys fit and what do I want to build around going forward? And I do think there is, there's certainly something there. I think with a different coach, that team could have been a lot better this year. That's a team that clearly was not playing for a guy. I mean, we'll see what happens with Jim Boylan moving forward. And Arturis as well is going to hire other guys in that front office too. So there's still more to come for the Chicago Bowls.

but the initial decision to hire Carney Chauvis is a smart one. I first met him in 2019 when I did a feature article on the Denver Nuggets. And going into that, I heard about how smart and thoughtful he is to talk to and how much of a rich history he has playing the game. Coming to the United States to play college basketball at Seton Hall, before returning home, he's a native of Lithuania to become one of the greatest, international basketball players in history. And he was a scout for many years.

And to become now the head honcho in a front office, he has a long, long, long history of success and different roles in basketball. And for Denver, Tim Conley runs the show there. But Carsey Novus is his secondhand man. And one of the reasons why they've had such an international flavor to their roster is Conley was an international scout. And like I said, Arturis played internationally. He has extensive connections with guys overseas.

And I would not be surprised to see. And what this year has some international players in it in this year's draft and moving forward for the Bulls to start resembling that type of team in Chicago as well. Well, and they had two big international hits, obviously Yokic. The other one is, you know, they drafted Yusuf Nurkich. who is going to have a very long good career in the NBA to speak to his international abilities also. That being said, I will say this, Kev. The last line of the Woj article when this news broke a couple days ago is the one that disturbed me the most. What line is that?

Paxon is expected to move into an advisory role, and there will be discussions with, GM Garforman about his future with the organization. But isn't that what happened with Sam Hinky in Philadelphia? And how'd that end up? You know what I mean? He bounced. I get it. And that's the problem.

I mean, like advisory role. You don't need to take his advice. Yeah, but it, this is how this works. Nobody needs to listen to your advice on Brooke Lopez. Let me tell you how this works. All right. As someone who understands this,

let me teach you. All the matter. Okay. All that matters. All that matters. All that. that matters is who has the owner's ear. That's what matters. You're right. Yep, you're right. So get him that. So if, if this guy comes in and says, I think we need to

make this Levine trade, and I think we need to move Kobe White, and I think we, and it is the guy who was responsible for that stuff. All I'm hoping is that that advisory role is just a nice way to not fire him. But that this guy is going to have control and be. able to do what he wants to do. Because otherwise, when you walk in there and you are attempting to undo your predecessor's mistakes, once you want to, you don't want to be having to go through a chain of command where this guy that used to run the team is in an advisory role and he can still call up Rinesdorf and say, I wouldn't do that.

That's when you get a mess on your hands, big time. And so I would be a lot more comfortable if they just said, these guys are moved out. Now, maybe they're under contract and this is a way to keep paying them. Again, I don't have the insight into how it's going to work with the Bulls. But on first glance, that is always disturbing to me because you have a new guy coming in. You're going to tell him, this is your show, you're going to be able to do what you want. But what happens when he says, this is what I want to do. and the other voices sometimes are the guys that did it in the first place, right?

They don't want to look stupid. They've already lost their gigs, but now they're sitting there saying, I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't do that, right? And like, I don't need that. I don't need the people that screwed this whole thing up still having a voice. The reason I'm here is because you screwed it up, right? And that's the only thing. Now, maybe it'll just be a nice way for Paxon.

or whoever to keep, you know, getting paid and he really won't be involved. But I would just, I'd blow it out. I'd say, look, these guys are gone. And now I've got my new guy. And this is your show. Well, there are already other voices in Chicago. Michael Risenorf's son of the owner, obviously has the ear of his dad. You know, he's the CEO-O and team president the last 10 or so years.

So he is also another voice when it comes to decision. that I don't know if that's going to necessarily change in Chicago or it's a collaborative process, but that can probably work for him considering he just came from Denver, which was a collaborative process. So, you know, without Gar-Pax being the main voice in the room and him replacing that voice, then maybe it can be a good thing overall, still to get feedback from different guys, as long as, like you said, nobody's stepping on his feet with the types of move he wants to make. Yeah.

So it's a good job. You've got the ability to, like, if you flip that into a playoff team in the Eastern Conference by next year, it would be unsurprising to say the least. But you get yourself a new coach, you make some roster moves, and all of a sudden you could be there. They're not that far off from being good.

Hopefully this guy is able to call the shots. Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I just wanted to make sure you're listening to podcasts on Spotify. Here's how you do it. First, search for your favorite podcast on Spotify's app. They have a library of over 750,000 pods at this point. So let's say you're searching for the rewatchables or the Dave Chang show or the Ringer NBA show. Once you find them, click on the follow button.

That's how you subscribe. Then click on those letters near the top of the ad that say podcasts. All the pods you're following will pop up separated by episodes, downloads, and shows. Wait, it gets better. In Spotify, you can adjust the speed of the pods to seven different speeds. 0.5 times is the slowest. I actually sound drunk at 0.5. You can do 0.8 times, 1.2 times, which is my favorite.

Everyone sounds like they just had a good cup of coffee. And then there's 1.5 times, 2 times. And if you're completely insane, three times. Anyway, Spotify's app connects directly to many of the best automobiles in the world. It even has a car play feature. That's pretty cool. Best of all, it's free. Download Spotify on any device, and you're good to go.

Should you be embarrassed that you're not? listening to podcasts on Spotify? Well, I don't want to app sham you, but the answer, unfortunately, is yes. Make the move. Listen to podcasts on Spotify. Back to yours. Before Chris and I get to the prospects that you should watch this weekend ahead of the Ringers 2020 NBA draft guide dropping next week,

we get some news. It came out a little bit after we finished recording, and it's from Adrian Orginowski and Jonathan Gavoni from ESPN. They said that NBA teams have united. together to push the league office to change the date of the draft. It's still currently scheduled for June 25th. They want that changed until no sooner than August 1st. We'll see what happens with that.

There's not a lot else that's known right now, but teams want that clarity. So keep that in mind when you listen to Chris and I talking about prospects in this year's draft because we don't know when the draft will be. Neither do teams do, neither do the prospects or the agents or anybody involved. but teams are looking for that clarity. So enjoy the conversation. All right. We've got the NBA draft over the course of the past week.

You've seen a bunch of kids making announcements saying that they are early declaring for the NBA draft or that they're going to test the waters in the NBA draft. And they still have a couple of weeks from now to get their names in. But what we wanted to do today is in preparation for said deadline. And I know the ringer's draft guide is going to drop next week. We wanted to put together four prospects when you go through the different mocks that we would encourage people to go out of their way and check out on YouTube. Now, I will tell you, I did try to find guys that either we're not getting a lot of attention or that maybe people hadn't seen all that much. And there are, I believe, two, two that I saw that on the latest mock draft that ESPN posted, they weren't even on there.

And so I was so, right. I mean, they weren't even on that list after I had put their names down. And so we'll see, right? We'll see if these kids end up on that list. But I'll start, and I will tell you that this was very fun to do. and there was one guy that I probably was the most shocked with in terms of where the consensus ranking is right now and then what I watched when I pulled him up on YouTube. You're going to like this.

I went down the list and I just went one by one and I was watching these guys, right? and I got to this kid, Leandro Bolmorrow. Ah. Who is 19 from Argentina. He's been playing in Barcelona. And when I got to his clips, and I'm watching it,

and I'm well aware that YouTube is not necessarily, you know, this is not the total package. Now, there are some people on there now that do shrinks and weaknesses, which are very interesting to watch. Because then you don't,

you're not just seeing the best up with a player. But there is no way you can watch the best of of this kid and not see it. I have no idea how he's down in the 20s if that's where he ends up. Now, I've always had a soft spot. There's a lot of Argentinian players I like. Genoble, of course, the greatest of those. But Luis Scola, I remember Notcioni. I like Argentinian kids typically coming into the draft. I usually favor them right off the bat. And then why is he? Tell the listeners about him. What does he do well? Okay. He is a, he's like a combo guard. He can shoot the hell out of the ball.

And he is nifty as all get out. Like I watch him and, you know, when we talk about skilled basketball players, guys that are able to come into the league. Do they have a motor? Are they tough? These are things that I want. I found both to be true when I watch this kid. but more importantly, you know, and I remember talking about this with Luca, and I was not as high as many others, but I said, look, the kid, when you can dribble and pass and shoot like that, you're, there's no chance you're going to fail, right? It's just a matter of how good you are going to be. And I will say that is true of this kid. I watch him and I go, there is just absolutely no way that a kid like that fails.

Like he is skill for 19, he was, I watched it. And again, we'll see how this turns out. But my first impression watching him was this kid is so much better than so many other guys I have already watched. And I knew nothing about him. I knew nothing about him. But I'm telling you, even if you just watch highlights of guys, this kid is better than a lot of other players that are ranked ahead of him. I will stand by that to the end. I think he's fantastic.

I mean, when you talk about 6 foot 8 with great feel for the game, passing ability and a projectable shot, it's hard not to like what you're watching. I'm with you. I have him ranked as a first round pick. Maybe in the teens, he'll be ranked somewhere in there for me when the rankings drop next week. I like him a lot, Chris.

I'm right there with you with him. Leandro Bolamaro. He was the first one. every once in a while there's a kid like that that I had not seen before and I'll come across and I'll be like hold on now and he he did it he did it I thought the kid was I think he's awesome when I watched him but a lot better than a lot of guys ahead of him this is not a great trap and this kid can play did you watch Killian Hayes this is my first guy Killian Hayes did you watch him at all I did not okay so Killian Hayes is my top ranked

Prospect. I have him number one. He's an 18-year-old guard who played in France last season, and I'm not comparing him to the name I'm about to say. I'm just saying there are shades of this player from the name I'm about to say. And that's James Hardin, because from Hayes, you see him unleash side dribble threes and the double step back move that everybody calls a travel. You see the quick pull-ups from Killian Hayes. And those, Those are not things that we saw in his game in recent years. And yet he's already doing it effectively. When you look for star players in the league, it's a lot of the traits you just talked about with Beaumero, Chris. It's about the size and ability to create a shot and make smart decisions. And those are all areas that Hayes excels. Like I said, I have him rank number one.

He, I feel very confident that it's an 86% free throw shooter. on nearly 300 attempts with a good three point percentage off the catch and off the dribble, that he is going to be a projectable, really high level shooter. So you have that as a baseline for success. And on top of that, you factor in that his playmaking might be his best skill right now. He throws darts off the dribble, you know, going from a live dribble straight into a pass to a rolling big man or a spot-up shooter. He has creativity as a pass or two with the ability to manipulate,

manipulate defenders and create passing lanes. And so these are two real fundamental high-level skills that he has, that when you project forward, considering his youth and his improvement already, that this is a guy who could be a really high-level player. And I see him ranked in a lot of places, you know, in the 8 to 14 range. And I know, you know, Ethan Strauss from the Athletic also has him ranked number one. I know my coworker Jonathan Charks has Killian Hayes ranked high. as well. So I'm not the only one that thinks very highly of Killian Hayes, but it's fascinating to see

the range that he is ranked. When you talk to NBA people or a look online, mostly people have him as a late lottery pick. I think he's the number one guy in the draft. Oh, wow. Okay. So when you said the name and I was like, I don't know what you're talking. I went and scrolled through and I'm like, oh, that's why. Because he's like in the top, he's in the top 10 on most of these mocks. And I went down further before I even started. Right? To try to find later guys. Like not the guys that are, but look, it's one thing to be consensus top 10 in in some

of these. It is quite another to be, you're saying you've got him number one? Yeah, number one. Okay. Well, then yes. I, for sure need to go out of my way to, uh, to check him out to say. I mean, he's not like he's not a perfect player. I can understand the mindset some people have with having him there.

I mean, he's very left-handed dominant. he doesn't use his right hand a whole lot. Sometimes it gets him into trouble when it comes to finishing around the rim or when it comes to making some even more advanced passes. And he's not like a top end, you know, elite athlete. He's not, you know, John Wall. But that's the thing with this draft. There's not that no brain or number one pick.

So you're looking for the other guys in that big lump of, you know, you mentioned how it's not a good draft. It's not a good draft with elite prospects. But I think it's, I think it's a good. draft with high-end role players, guys who have a chance to pop. I think it's really strong in that sense. There's a lot of guys that I project as good role players that I'd want on my team. All right.

In the interest of, like I said, I started down further. Here's a kid that was not, he's not even on mocks that I have found so far. And he is, so here's a shot in the dark on a kid that when I went through, and I watched because I guess at some point either somebody had given me his name or I watched him at some point and written it down. But he is the forgotten Florida State kid, a kid that many

people are right. And so we are past Vassal. Everybody likes Vassal and everybody likes Patrick Williams, right? Trent Forrest. I thought you were going to go with Patrick Williams. No. Trent Forrest is on this team. He is ageism. You know I love the ageism thing, right?

Yeah. So he was a senior player. Again, dribble, pass, shoot, long athletic, and my God, what an athlete. He is also All-American defensive team, all-American, all-academic team. He is the forgotten kid, and I love kids like this, right? He's the other guy on this Florida State team. I don't know why he's not on these mock drafts. Go watch. him. He is, I mean, he's had some, he had some dunks this past year that are just like, unbelievable. And he is a hell of an athlete. He's not on, he's on a box because he shot 25% from three. I don't, four years at Florida State. Despite being a six foot three guard. That's why. I under, I understand. Oh, look, wait till I get to one of my other guys. Holy mackerel, are you going to

hate his guts? Look, as I have told you, if you give me the athlete and you give me a kid that's willing to work hard with a high motor, I think I can turn him into a reasonable shooter. I've seen that happen a hundred times. But what I cannot get is the kind of athleticism and everything this kid brings to the table. And he is the forgotten kid on that Florida State team. And I do think he will be a pro. I do. And so just check him out.

everybody's going to tell you about Vassel, everybody's going to tell you about Williams. So I think we are going to, this is why this is the mismatch, right? I'm going to give you guys that people are not talking about at all or that you or that people haven't even thought of or maybe not even on these mock drafts that I think will end up on these mock drafts.

And Florida State was absolutely loaded. And this kid's a player, Trent Forest. Again, we've got to fix the shot. There was another kid like that. You remember I mentioned to you a couple weeks ago. I saw that he declared. I did not put him on this list. Ashen Hagen's, I mean, he just can't shoot for,

he can't shoot for nothing. And so I get it, right? You know, shooting 25% is not good. That being said, I do think this kid has the requisite athleticism and he does so many other things well that I could see him find in a spot. He's worth checking out on YouTube. That's what I'd say.

Trent Forest. I bet you don't even have him. No, I don't, and I won't. Because you haven't seen him, but you look at the 25% and you're out. I mean, sometimes, sometimes you can take a quick glance and have an idea. Or like, you're also watching Florida State anyway. You're watching Florida State for Patrick Williams and Devin Vassel and you're seeing for us and you're like, eh, nice college player, maybe a good international player,

but I wouldn't, I wouldn't have him as a first round pick. I didn't say he's a first round pick. I said he's a guy worth watching on YouTube. There's a comma at the end of my sentence. I wouldn't have him a first round pick for sure. And I as a second round pick, I'd probably want him maybe as like an undrafted summer league tryout guy,

you know, and see if he can do something with his jumper. Because he does shoot 75% from the free throw line. So, you know, he has solid touch. It just hasn't shot well from three. So maybe there's something there that you can give it up,

give a chance with him, give it a chance with him. But I don't feel any level of confidence like you do. But I understand the appeal. And, you know, obviously he's a good college player. Very good college player. And he's got the NBA athleticism. That is a prerequisite for me.

My second guy is somebody who does not need to improve his jump shot. And that's Tyrell Terry, a freshman guard from Stanford. only 6 foot 1, 160 pounds, undersized for damn sure. And those are issues for him. However, I think he is highly, highly underrated when it comes to the draft right now. I have him as a top 10 prospect on my board. He's a guy that some people didn't think we're going to declare this year. He is testing the waters.

He reminds me of a Mark Price or a C.J. McCollum type of guy, just a game-changing shooter. I mean, you watch him if you're looking at his highlights. There's a little bit of Trey Young in him with the way he shoots off the dribble with a quick, high release. He can shoot off of screens and handoffs. He can launch off the dribble from anywhere. He moves well off the ball.

I mean, all these things are great. That is what makes him an appealing prospect is the shot. But what in my eyes makes him more than just a shooter is the fact that his ability to score around the rim despite being undersized is not something to overlook. He is so crafty finishing with either hand around the rim with absorbing contact and initiating contact that I view him as a player who, even though he's listed at 6 foot 1, even though he's 160 pounds, he has the skill and the touch. in the craft, in the feel to succeed and be one of those rare guys who could be in that 170, 180 pound range and be a significant success in the NBA. So those skills factor in. He's a good pastor, smart decision maker, plays hard on defense.

The whole package is there for him to be a successful NBA player. It's just a matter of what level he reaches. All right. All right. So the third one on my list. Again, I'm deep diving. I typically, I was trying to find somebody that played at a school that you probably didn't ever see the kid play, right?

And so that, and that I would tell you, even in this year is, I mean, it's few and far between. There's just not a lot of guys that fit that bill. But inevitably, when we get to the NBA, you always see some players that you're like, I don't even remember him in college. and sometimes they end up being great players like a Damien Lillard, right? That none of us saw him when he was playing at Weber State.

And then some of us end up flaming out. But I came across this kid from the college of Charleston, Grant Riller. Ah, yeah, I'm actually doing his scattering report today. Are you really? I'm on the list. Like probably right after we did this podcast. I tell you this. To wrap up my top 30.

I mean, look, he wasn't on much of a team at Charleston, but there were, There were moments when I watched the tapes where he is not like the set up like pure point guard. But I tell you this, man, he really, he knows how to use screens and get around screens. And he's got good vision. And he can really score. He's, it's almost like a poor man's like Van Vleet is what he kind of reminds you. I like that comp a lot.

Yeah, when you're watching it. But not even maybe poor man's, though. He could be a Van Vleet type. I mean, the problem is obviously, look, when you're 23, you get, I mean, you get pounding on, I mean, Annie played at Charleston too. I mean, it's hard to evaluate guys who played at smaller schools without facing a high level of competition over four years. I mean, it's a limited sample that you can look back at. No, but he is, he is skilled. You see him when he dribbles the ball up the court, like he looks totally in control.

He uses screens great. he does like these he's got this deal where he does a lot of like euros and stuff like that to be able to create space so if you're one of these diminutive guys how do you how do you get your shots off and he clearly i mean he averaged 22 points a game uh five assist four rebounds and he's just one that he's a fun watch too anybody that goes and checks him out via youtube um he's one that i did not see during the college basketball year but i was trying to search for are there any kids from smaller schools and there's not that many, but he fit the bill. And when you watch him, you could see it working out for him. Now, again, I get it. He's 23 years old. But he's a good basketball player. There's no way around it.

And he is ranked really low. I mean, you're talking in the 50s. And he certainly is that he may not be as good of a project out two, three years. And that's why he's so far down as some guys. but in terms of putting him on a basketball court right now, he's absolutely better than a lot of guys that I watched beforehand. So Grant Riller from Charleston. My guy, Rashad Phillips, also known as Yoda,

has been very, very high on Grant Riller for quite a while now. Yes, Yoda. Talk soon. Has been high on Riller for quite some time now. All right, there we go. All right, so I've got Bulmorrow, Trent Forrest, Grant Riller. before you've got uh killian uh with the hayes right killian hayes yep all right and tyrell terry and tyrell terry from stanford who's your third let's go with arra nay smith from vanderbilt uh i'm going with just a bunch of shooters here that he is somebody who this guy's get a

flamethrower jump shot can be used off screens immediately can be a weapon for a coach in the nba and i you think about what you need in today's league across positions you need shooters and so for a wing naysmith is somebody who can come in right away and be a shooter for you and defense he's a competitive defender i think with nba strength and conditioning program he can improve his lateral quickness to have a bit more versatility on the floor and he's a smart decision maker as well he knows who he is as a player and so these are qualities that you want in a guy who complements your stars. He is not a star player, but he's somebody who can compliment and enhance what a star player does because he is somebody that demands defensive attention when he's on the floor because of his

shooting ability. So as a mid first round pick, maybe a late lottery pick, but at worst, you know, 20 to 25, May Smith is a guy that stands out to me as somebody that should be highly valued. And as one of those players I talked about earlier, it's not a great star draft, but it's a great role player draft and guys like Aaron Neesmith are one of the reasons why. Yeah, he is just looking at a few of these mocks. He's, I mean, he's a lottery guy. Yeah, he is. But again, when we talked about this exercise doing this before this, I was thinking, like,

who were the guys that come to mind to underline my point and my belief in this draft that it's actually good for role players? Because I have called it weak in the past. You've called it week. You know, everybody has called it weak. but it's weak only in the sense that there's not that Zion. There's not that Luke. Right.

There's not any AD. There's not that top no brainer, no duh. Give me this guy. I'm going to tank my ass off for this player. But there are a lot of quality role players in it. And I've talked to a handful of executives recently, you know, just catching up, you know, just seeing how people are doing during this, you know, whole coronavirus thing that we're all going through together. You know, just seeing what they're doing.

And everybody's really focused on the draft. and a lot of people, you know, seem to agree. You know, when I talk to people around the league, that this is a good draft for role players. And so I think it's sort of time to shift our thinking because the guys, you mentioned, Chris, I mean, some of them might not be drafted. A guy like Grant Riller, if you get him late first round or second round, that's a guy you want to gamble on.

I mean, right? And like he has skills that can fit into a team, just like with Maysmith. That's a guy who can fit into a team. And I think for the. teams drafting in the middle of the first round, back of the first round, they're going to be able to add guys who are going to contribute right away. Not everybody's going to hit, but there's a lot of options to choose from that have some appeal depending on what your team is looking for and what it values on a role player. All right. Now here is my last one and you are going to be absolutely

appalled. Okay. Appalled because it is the absolute opposite of, of, this guy, as far as I can tell, is not on any mock traps. But I will forever love him and am willing to give him an NBA chance, despite the fact that he's not on these. And he shot, you ready for this? 0%. 7. 7.

7% from 3. Okay. Who is it? Herb Jones played with a friggin cast on. against LSU. This is Alabama kid. And I remember him. I loved him as a freshman.

He was on the Sexton team. He played, you could pull up this video. He played against LSU this year less than two weeks after he fractured his wrist. He has a cast on his wrist, which is his shooting hand,

and he grabbed 17 friggin' rebounds with one arm against one of the best teams in the SEC. And then with the game on the line, went to the free throw line and shot it with his right hand and I thought this is the Kevin O'Connor special.

The kid can't shoot for shit anyway. He drains both of them to win the game. Again, he has a cast on his left hand, a real cast. And he plays in the game. And not only does he play in the game, he grabbed 17 rebounds. He is one of, he is longer than all hell.

He blocks shots. He gets steals. He runs the floor. Great. Great kid by all accounts. And this kid is an absolute friggin warrior. And to me, like, when you give me that six, nine frame, you give me that kind of an athlete. And you give me a kid that is willing to go out in a game with one hand,

and grab 17 rebounds, I'll take him. And hell, I might be able to switch his hand because he hit the two free throws with his right hand with the game on the line. And you should hear the crowd when you watch the video of him knocking down the two free throws. It's truly unbelievable. It's one of the most unbelievable things I've seen.

And if you can grab 17 rebounds with one hand against LSU, he had a good game against Kentucky too, so I mean, like against the better competition. and he was a pretty highly touted kid coming out of high school and his college career didn't go great, but he is one hell of an athlete and he can defend like absolute crazy. And now, again, another kid, I got to fix the shot. But I'm kind of surprised that he's not on, you know, top 60s because there ain't a lot of kids in the world that could do what that kid did. And that will forever be a soft spot in my heart.

I just pulled up the video just to get the visual while you were talking. It's unbelievable. It's pretty wild. Just seeing the left hand and just hanging by us. Do you know how many guys? I mean, we always talk about our rebounding. How many guys never in their life,

like 99% of all basketball players will never get 17 rebounds in any kind of a game? In any kind of a game. That's just an obscene number. Now took the guys that could do it if you only gave them one hand. It's outrageous. I'm like flipping through video right now and just watching his lefty free throw stroke compared to his righty free throw stroke. I mean, Herb Jones shoots with the wrong hand. I know.

This is a Kevin O'Connor special. Give me the kid and look, if you tell me he's got the kind of a heart that can go out there and grab 17 rebounds with a damn cast. on, then I'm at least willing to figure out the rest. I'll take him as a flyer and we'll see what we can do with him because, my God, he's got, he's got enough that I love about him. And he's got this great NBA frame. I mean, tremendous. And he can dribble and he can pass.

He just, I mean, the shooting thing is, is not pretty. It's not pretty. Since returning from that injury, for what it's worth, he shot. 63% from the line with his offhand. Pretty good. Not bad. Pretty good. Pretty good.

I mean, if you see him, he's pretty nifty. I loved him when he was on the sexton team. They'd bring him in the game. As a freshman, he had this big fro. And he would come in the game and I'd be like, who the hell is that? Because he is, I mean, he's got this unbelievable 6-9, just long as all hell frame. And I thought. All the way.

Yep. No, I mean, this is a. total change of topics, but since I just had pretty good, I was reminded, I started watching Curb Your Enthusiasm. Did you watch this season? No, no, no. I started with season one. I'm just putting it on at night because I've never watched it before. Do you love it? It's, oh my God. What has taken me so long to watch this damn show? Dude, show is so damn funny. They're like very rarely, I don't know if I've ever gone through an episode without like a real like extended laugh over something that took place.

He's a genius. He's an absolute comedic genius for sure. It's unbelievable, man. All right. So mine are Bolamar. Boy, you're deep diving. I'm making you deep dive. Bolamaro, who I think could end up being a lottery pick.

I'm serious. Grant Riller, Trent Forrest, Herb Jones. two of those aren't even on mocks. So far you've got Killian Hayes, Tyrell Terry from Stanford, and the Naismith kid from Vanderbilt. He was just coached by my guy. I need to reach out to him and find out,

get a little scouting report on him. Stackhouse, Jerry Stackhouse, who just coached him this past year there at Van Dy. Give us the scoop. Get us the scoop, Chris. I will. Let's get him on the pod. Let's get Jerry Stackhouse on the pod.

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, he was just on with Woj, I think. Because I saw a clip floating around. I haven't listened to it yet. I'm going to. Oh, I saw the clip where he was imitating. He was imitating Dean Smith. No, no, there was the one where he's imitating Dean Smith. Woj posted a clip of it, and I got to get around to listening to it. It was, the clip is hilarious. He was, it was basically him asking Jerry how Dean Smith would react to kids on social media nowadays. You know, complaining about playing time. or whatever it would be.

And his, his, his imitation of Dean Smith is absolutely hilarious. And he had that quote that went, you know, semi-viral saying he wished he never played with Michael Jordan and, oh yeah. I'm sure that's true.

Because he got old Jordan, right? For the Washington, for the Washington Wizards. And that is, and it's, it's also very, very hard for anybody to,

I mean, I, that was one of the first time, It was one of my first years covering the NBA. And Kevin, I've never seen anything. Like, him playing for the Wizards when he did, I remember back in that time, like, you can imagine, like, you know how they have like, you know, when it comes to the playoffs, they have like the press conferences. They call them podium games, you know, and they bring out a select number of players. And then you all kind of pile in a conference room, a small conference room, right?

when Jordan came with the wizard like I remember just here they had to like put down like 400 chairs in a room because every every news channel radio station and everybody else within 500 miles came it was unbelievable

I mean it was just because he was on the team and it was like that you know all over the place it was just it's hard to describe it was like him and then the rest of the team, you know, and he was the show. And he was obviously not the same Michael Jordan he was as he was with the Bulls. Still got, still got buckets. I mean, I remember, but when Tom Brady left for the Patriots for the Buccaneers, I tweeted that this, you know, Tom Brady's time with the Bucks will not be like Michael Jordan with the Wizards. And a bunch of people responded saying, well, Michael

Jordan still put up numbers. He was still good with the Wizards. And I'm like, no, my point was the bucks are going to win. Those lizards teams love. lost. And that's not necessarily on MJ. Yeah. The roster as a whole. And to Jerry's credit, I mean, look, Jerry Stackhouse is, he gets kind of forgotten throughout that era.

I mean, Jerry's Tackhouse was second in the league in scoring one year in the NBA. He averaged 29 points a game one season. 29.8. I pulled it out. Unbelievable. It is, there ain't, there ain't many guys in NBA history that have averaged, you know, 30 points a game. it's an odd outlier season

because the year before that he averaged 24 then he averaged 21 the the two years afterwards so that one year he popped averaging pretty much 30 points I'd love to go back I mean I was only 10 years old

when that season happened I don't really remember it but I'd love to go back to see what happened with his usage that year because he was taking seven more shots per game than he had the year before the year after that yeah was somebody hurt

Was somebody out that year? I mean, what explains the... I don't remember the circumstances of it. I just remember looking back and looking through his career and being like, wait, what? I mean, who is it? Iverson that year? I remember thinking if it wasn't for whoever it was that led the league in scoring, this guy would have led the frigging NBA in scoring one year.

It was Alan Iverson. Okay. Iverson averaged 31 points that season. I mean, you become the, I mean, again, right, to be the NBA scoring champion for a year, that's pretty sacred category. There's not a lot of guys that aren't Hall of Famers that have done it. I don't know. I don't know how many there are, honestly.

I have to go back and look. Is there anybody that's not a Hall of Famer that led the NBA in scoring one season? I'd propose. Yeah, somebody looked that up and send it to me. I'd propose probably not. All right, your last one. My last one. Let's go with Tyler Bay.

Oh, I had him. He's one of my girls. Well, there's two of them. You know what? I was actually choosing, and I decided to lay off him. There's two Colorado kids. Because the other kid can get drafted, too. McKinley Wright, who's the guard?

do you have him even on any list he's not on my list right now yeah McKinley Wright's not bad but anyway yeah Tyler Bay who's another I mean he is I mean Tyler Bay's defense yes fantastic I mean this is a guy who can be

a super versatile defender for you one of your more important defenders he can switch on the guards he's thick enough to you know at least you know compete against big men versatile defender who on the offense event in college was used as an interior player.

They posted him up a ton, but he did show the ability to be a good perimeter shooter. He's got some odd mechanics. So there's no guarantee of success there, but he's somebody I would feel good betting on on the offense, as a late first round pick, early second round pick because of his versatility on defense and because of his,

you know, he is a multi-dimensional offensive player. Can use him as a small ball center. because he's got the experience and talent on the inside, but he also has shown the ability to shoot from the perimeter, which could use, so you could use him as a wing and some lineups with traditional bigs. You know,

there was one thing with him when I was going through, when I was going through Tyler Bay, because I told you he was one of the guys that I considered, because he was one of the lower guys also. He shot 23% from three as a junior, and then jumped to 40, percent. And so that is incredibly

strange. You know what I mean? Like that is a monster leap. Yes. A monster leap. And it makes me think like is that real? What do you think? You think it's real? Because it is kind of a weird looking shot. I mean, he went from, he went from

22 shot attempts to 31 shot attempts. So it's a small sample and he's, I wouldn't look too much at that percentage, 42% from three. I'm looking more at the free throw percentage, 75% and his three seasons of Colorado. And you look at his touch from the inside when it comes to, you know, hook shots, you know, floaters and whatnot and layups. He, he has touch.

To me, it's a matter of can his form be ironed out enough to become a competent shooter? And I would bet on it. Like I said, I don't love him as a prospect, but he's an intriguing player when you think about how positionless the league is today. I mean, you mentioned it, right? You know, as one of the two guys that you had from Colorado, he can be used in different roles as he was on that team. Granted, his primary role was as an interior player.

There's a peel on that if I'm an NBA team and I need a guy who can plug and play into different positions because he has the touch. It's just a matter of really fixing that shot. It has gotten better. So he has a history of improvement. Well, and I'm going to tell you, you know, you hear me reiterate all the time that I think

if you get a kid in a gym and you've got good coaches that you can turn somebody into somebody that can at least knock down the shots you need them to knock down. And one of the evidences of that was, I know you were very high on him. I know charks and there were many others that were much higher on him than maybe the NBA consensus. And that's Brandon Clark, who I was around all season. And his shot was, I mean, it's disgusting. And by the time Summer League was going on, I mean, he was going on.

I mean, he was banging threes, and he doesn't take many. But, I mean, he's, you know, when the season got postponed, he was knocking down 40% this year. And it went from a kid who at San Jose State was a just, I mean, like maybe the worst looking shot you've ever seen in their life. You know, he's shooting it like from his ear. And then they kind of fixed it at Gonzaga, but that's not what he did at Gonzaga.

And everybody said, you know, is a kid going to be able to shoot? Is a kid going to be able to shoot? And he shot okay, percent. percentage-wise, but it wasn't pretty. I mean, he shot 27% and he didn't shoot that many, and people thought he can't shoot. And I just watched him turn into a guy that when he takes, you know, when he takes a corner three, it looks good.

And he just worked and worked and worked. And now he can knock down shots. And so- He's a good example of a guy where free throw percentage and touch on those mid-range shots, right? like Clark Clark had such a filthy floater in college. I mean, he had just the beautiful soft touch. And then you look at that, you look at the touch on layups, on tough contested layups when he's off balance.

You look at the floaters. You look at hook shots. If their touch is soft there and if you see a rate of improvement from the free throw line and if you see a change, a successful change in his mechanics, that's what made me feel confident in him in the draft last year is why. I had him ranked in the top 10. And for Memphis, I'm sure they felt the same way. I mean, what a gift for Brandon Clark to drop to Memphis where he did.

And what a mistake by so many teams to let him go? And I sort of feel similar with Tyler Bay. I don't feel nearly as strong about Bay as I did about Clark last year. I will not have Bay in my top 10 like I did with Clark. Clark, to me, is just a better overall prospect. But similar idea, which is why you're right to bring him up. Yeah, well, I mean, like, and that's why. some of these times I think, hey, if I've got the other stuff,

if I've got the athleticism, if I've got the, if the kid can pass, the kid can shoot, and some of the stuff like I might be able to figure out the shooting thing. I mean, Brandon Clark took 24 threes in his entire college career. 24. In the whole career, he took 52 this season, 52, when the season got suspended. And it's just won a game. But, I mean, he took, he's taking more threes as an NBA rookie.

than he took in his entire college career combined. And it's a much longer shot, right? I mean, it's just strange. It's just strange. It's strange. But, I mean, yes, he has turned out to be an outstanding NBA player to say the least, even as a rookie. All right.

I've got Leandro Bulmarro, Trent Forrest, the Forgotten Florida State player, Grant Riller from Charles. Carlston and Herb Jones, who got 17 rebounds with one hand as guys to check out on YouTube and see if they... You're wild. There's only two of my guys. I got one first round guy, one second round guy, and one guy that's not, and two guys that aren't listed on mocks yet. And I got Killian Hayes, my number one prospect, Tyrell Terry, a top top 10-ish guy for me who's

typically ranked as a late first rounder, Aaron Naismith from Vanderbilt, and then Tyler Bay from Colorado. All right. So we got a good list for everybody. If you want to watch some YouTube clips, Leandro Bull Morrow, Trent Forrest,

Grant Riller, Herb Jones, Killian Hayes, Tyrell Terry, Aaron Naismith, Tyler Bay. So watch those guys on YouTube. and then next week in the ringer,

we got the 2020 NBA draft guide launching on the website. It's my seventh year doing the draft guide started doing them solo back in 2014. And this is a third year. Third year somehow doing it with the ringer. And you're coming out hot. You are coming out hot.

Wait a minute. Fourth year with the ringer. I'm sorry. You're coming out hot with Killion A's being the number one pick. Over La Melmo. Over. Maybe.

Maybe. Anthony Edwards over James Wiseman, over all these guys. I mean, I got on Yaki O'Kongru, center from USC, ranked ahead of James Wiseman, among other guys for that matter. Hey, let me ask you one. All right. Go ahead. No, that's fine. I'll wait for the draft guy because we will for sure be going through that.

I can't wait to see it. You said that this year you weren't you weren't playing the consensus thing. You were going to go. I mean, I just, I see no reason. You know, I feel like, you know, it's, it's, what's the point? You know, what is it? There is no consensus. There's no consensus amongst NBA executives or scouts or, or anybody that, you know,

so like what's the point of there being a quote unquote consensus that doesn't exist? There's an average. There's an average of like if one guy has, if, you know, 100 executives have one guy ranked first and then 100 have him ranked 10th. the quote-unquote consensus is fifth. No, I mean, just have the guy where you have the guy and do your, you know, do your evaluation taking in feedback from others and taking it. But ideally, though, you can't look at the number where another guy has somebody ranked and do your own. So, you know, even if you see I have a guy ranked number one as a listener, I want to hear from you if you think I'm dumb for having a guy ranked high because your opinion is valued too.

Well, they can count on me to do that. that's true Kevin have a great weekend thanks to Bobby Wagner for producing as always if you dig what you're hearing go give us a rating

and review on iTunes five stars five stars it really helps and we will talk to you on Tuesday