The Ringer NBA Show - Four Questions for the Post-All-Star NBA World | The Mismatch

Episode Date: February 18, 2020

We run down a list of items, including rumors that John Beilein might be on his way out in Cleveland and news that the G League is unionizing (1:23). Then, with the All-Star Game in the rearview, we ask four questions about the landscape of the league, including: Who should the Bucks and Lakers fear most in their respective conferences (27:12)? Hosts: Chris Vernon and Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Liz Kelly. We have a new podcast launching this week exclusively on Spotify with Chris Ryan and Chuck Closterman called Music Exists. Here's the trailer. Hello, this is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at The Ringer.com. Hello, this is Chuck Losterman. I'm a friend of Chris Ryan and The Ringer.

And this is Music Exists, a podcast where we talk about how we think about music. Yeah, this is not a podcast where we tell you what music to listen to or we necessarily comment on what's happening in the culture. now or what you should be listening to tomorrow before your friends do. This is a podcast about thinking about music, even when it's not playing. Yeah, how does music shape the world you see around you, the world you feel around you? How does it make you feel about yourself? Yeah, particularly if the music that makes you feel things about yourself is Steely Dan or Black Sabbath.

Or Radiohead. Yeah, that happens. That comes up a lot. Music exists, a podcast about Radiohead. Available exclusively on Spotify. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and we want to start off today's show by talking to you about Kevin O'Connor. This whole weekend, I was at All-Star Weekend in Chicago. And going around and about, it was a tremendous reminder of how many great people and caring people there are out there. For those of you that don't know, Kevin's father passed away on Friday. And I know he and his mother have been incredibly. appreciative of all the love and support that has been shown to their family. And I can't tell you how many people came up to me while I was at All-Star Weekend wanting me to pass along

well-wishes concern for the O'Connor's. And, you know, through this whole thing, he was really vulnerable in letting everybody know about what was going on with his father's cancer diagnosis. And he turned bad news into what became bringing out the best in everyone, whether it was dunks for cancer, raising the awareness, and also allowing people to be vulnerable with him and share their stories. And I talked to him this weekend and he's doing okay. He was, he was saying, hey, I still want to be able to talk about the Elam ending and all the stuff when I come back to the show. Nice. Classic. Yeah, and he'll be back sooner than later. But again, thank you to all of you. You have really made a hard time a lot better.

by all of your kind words and encouragement to the O'Connor's. And I know he and his mother are so appreciative. And with that, we will talk about basketball. Jonathan Charks from the Ringer is joining me on the show today. And I know Jonathan that I communicated with you over the weekend. You communicated with Kevin also. He wants to be here so badly. He's there with this mother.

They're adjusting to life. And he will be back, as I said. But I appreciate you coming on today. Yeah. you and Kevin have really created something great here. And it's just an honor to fill in for him right now. And yeah, I wish she was here. I miss you a lot, buddy.

And we're waiting for you to come back. All right. As I mentioned, I was in Chicago all weekend. And I went to all of the events. And I must tell you, as it's all going on, it's very nerve-wracking. And it's just very, very busy, especially when it's in a big city. Like, juxtaposed from last year when it was in Charlotte, Charlotte, you're at the hotel and you can really walk everywhere you need to be for the entire weekend.

And in Chicago, I mean, I bet I took 30-something Uber's. I mean, you're just in a car all the time going from here to here. Everything is a couple hour time commitment to pull it off. And so you're just so, you're just, it's a rat race the whole time all day until you get back late that night from the events of the evening being over. And I didn't even go out anywhere after all of the events. Like last year I went to some of the parties and everything. I mean, this year, you're just so gas after it's all done. But I'm there yesterday.

I finally get back home after All-Star weekend. I'm going back through all the pictures and all the things that happened. And I've got to tell you, as I was going through everything, you know, it's all happening in the moment. But from the rising stars to All-Star Saturday night to the All-Star game on Sunday. I don't know how it came off as a TV event all weekend. But every event was great this year. The Rising Stars game was awesome. And the last like three minutes of that turning into a dunk contest,

the whole crowd was going absolutely crazy. All-Star Saturday night, skills competition with Bam Out of Bio, the three-point with Buddy Heald winning it at the end, the dunk contest that ends in controversy. And then, of course, the All-Star game, which is the best All-Star game, I can remember since I was a kid and Magic came back, honestly. Like, that's the last one that I think is as memorable as what took place on Sunday night. But all in all, I thought this was a great showcase for the NBA. How to come off with you watching it.

Yeah, it was cool. It kind of felt like you had these two generations coming up, like with Rising Stars. And you had Trey, Luca, Zion. and you could really kind of feel, oh, this is the future of the league. These are the guys who in two or three years it's going to be their All-Star game. And you can have the current generation,

you know, with Janus, Kauai, LeBron, or the actual game. And yeah, the Elyle Monday was awesome. It kind of felt like watching pickup at the end there. It's like, oh, we got our five, you got your five. We're going to 21. Let's play.

That was great. Yeah, and these guys really trying, you know, taking charges, screaming at the referees. Like, and I think, think the other thing is they made those guys care. And I think this makes people, it certainly makes me hopeful. Kevin and I had discussed many times when the midseason tournament has come up and people say, well, why would they even care? Like, why would what would make these guys care

about that? I don't know. They just got them to care about the All-Star game. So I figure they can figure out how to make guys care about a mid-season game. tournament. And I don't know if you want to do the Ilam ending in the midseason tournament. I don't know if that is. I mean, how much do you think the ending score, knowing what the ending score is, that it's 157 at the moment that they add the 24 and that there is no time limit, and it really is just like playing pickup, how much do you think that played into the level of competition because I feel like it did a lot.

I think it definitely helps because the score is always in goal, always in range. Whereas if you have a clock and your team is really ahead, it's like this is over, whatever. But now we're just playing pickup and like you were saying,

these guys would pick up all the time and they want to win playing pickup so when they want to win playing out here too. Right. And so here's hoping that they can figure out not only that midseason tournament, but for All-Star Weekend, and I know

heat check covered it yesterday. I think it's going to end up being really memorable. There are just moments from everything. The Rising Stars game

with the whole Luca knocking down the half court shot and the meme with him and Trey Young that has been passed around all weekend. And then Zion

and John Morant and all these guys having a dunk contest at the end of that game. And then, of course, All-Star Saturday night, you know,

look, I know that it's a bad deal for Aaron Gordon to not have won a dunk title, but I kind of feel like in this bizarre way, him not winning it and the rob, him not winning it becomes the huge story more than Derek Jones winning it. And so I feel like Aaron Gordon's dunk contest performance typically, much like Dominique, honestly, years ago, and people still remember him and Jordan going head to head. But Aaron Gordon has gone head to head with Zach Levine and now Derek Jones Jr.

And I guess the downfall is if you don't win you are forgotten in most competitions, certainly the details are forgotten in most competitions. But that just will not be so for Aaron Gordon. You know what I mean? Like now that this has happened twice, I feel like his dunk contest become more memorable because of what's happened to him. It's kind of like Pete Rose not being in the Hall of Fame.

Right. Right. Yeah, you end up talking about it more than you would otherwise. I mean, how many dunk contests you even remember from like 10 years ago? I couldn't tell you who won. Very few. And certainly, you know, like how they have those Sporkel quizzes where you've got to like fill out who won. Who won the, you know, you got to get you got to get.

you got to guess the answer. If you told me, if you gave me a sporical quiz of who got second in the dunk contest, Dominique Wilkins and Aaron Gordon, I think are the only ones I would get over the years if you had me guess who got second in dunk contest. And so they weirdly become very, very memorable. And then, of course, I think, I do think we're going to remember the All-Star game and the way it ended. And it's almost because with the, way it ending being Anthony Davis's free throw and so many people complaining about it ending on a free throw, it will actually make it memorable because it ended in a way that had, you know, that made news or certainly created some kind of takes on it. But all in all, I know the ratings have been a story

all year for the NBA and whatever, but I have a hard time believing that somebody watched any of the events of the weekend and were not entertained because it was just entertaining all weekend long. I like two when the three points shootout the what was it, the Mountain Dew Zone good sponsorship by the way.

That was a cool little twist to the whole thing adding to deeper shots. Yes, I liked it too. And so anyways, all in all, All-Star weekend was great. I thought the NBA did a very, very good job with it. And look, I was there

in Charlotte last year. I don't remember all that much. that took place throughout that weekend. But I do feel like I'm going to look back a year from now and remember a lot of the stuff that happened in Chicago. All right. So regarding the NBA season, which we don't have games for a couple of days,

and guys are still enjoying their All-Star break, in the middle of this stuff going on over the weekend, there is a report from ESPN, both Adrian Warginowski and Brian Winhorse are reporting that this John B-line, story. And basically that one of the coaches in the NBA might not come back after the All-Star break. And so I'm reading through this. You know this has been a deal all year long. It has gone poorly with John Beeline. They've talked of player revolt. They've talked about

these player meetings. There's been controversy on and on. And so now the story comes out that they are going to meet and decide a future and that he may not. be coming back after the all-star break. That's where it stands now as of time recording. Charks, this guy, you can't come back now. Like, there's no way you can come back and coach that team after this story has been around all weekend. It would, now it becomes insanely awkward if you come back after the all-star break,

be like, all right, guys, I'm feeling refreshed and let's go finish out this season strong. Like, I don't even know why that wasn't followed up with, okay, now it's over. Because they can have whatever meeting they want to have. Once the story is out there that you're talking about not coming back, I don't know how you come back. You think it's about money? I saw he had a five-year contract. Imagine getting fired halfway through the first year of a five-year contract. All guaranteed.

Well, look, I think he doesn't want to coach them anymore. And I think probably Cleveland doesn't want him to be their coach. So yes, I would imagine that it is probably about money in the sense of trying to figure out a settlement here. What am I getting paid for what I have done? Am I getting paid any more of that contract that I am owed? Are you going to fire me? Or can we do this in some kind of a way where it's amicable for both people? because truth be told, I'm going to go back

and I'll make a couple million dollars coaching a college team next year anyway. Yeah, the sad thing was he was a great college coach. I mean, it'll probably be forgotten in NBA circles, but B-line was very progressive. He got a lot of guys into the league. He played a very fun style of play, but you kind of look back at it.

Oh, at 67 years old, first time in the NBA, it kind of felt like a golden parachute for him. And he took it, and now it's ripped. And now, you know, but the money's for, I guess, is taking hits like this. But here's what I'll say. Maybe John Beeline, who I think is a great basketball coach, his teams at West Virginia, his teams at Michigan were unbelievable to behold. I have a very, very high opinion of him as a basketball coach.

And I don't know if it would have worked out in a different situation. But I do know, and this is a little bit in retrospect, and I probably should have been able to tab this right off the start. That is a disastrous situation to walk into. And you have resentful veterans combined with trying to build for the future with young guys. And you have a guy that's going to come in there. And it would be a reasonable coach for an all young team that you are trying to teach basketball to and that you can get real results and make them much.

better players. With veterans, they ain't trying to learn how to pivot and learn how to, you know, throw a pass correctly and all the kind of things that John Beline was doing. You know, when you read all those stories, like this is the kind of stuff, basic stuff. You have to get results and you have to get them quickly or else that stuff does not work. And I bring you back to Cubey Brown, one of the first guys that I, that I ever covered. Cubie walked into a locker room and said,

look, you're all losers. And that's why I'm here. And there's a guy packing up him and his family because of you. And they're having to move. But I'm going to turn you into winners. And all those players, like, rolled their eyes and we're like, yeah, this dude is mean, you know?

But he walked out and then he started teaching them. And they started seeing results. And then by the second year, they're winning 50. games. He's winning coach of the year. And so he told them that things were going to get better. He told them that they were going to win basketball games and they were going to progress. And it worked. And so they all believed in him and they ended up loving him and thinking he was one of the best coaches that they ever had. But if you don't win, it will not work. And that Cleveland situation was set up to lose anyway. And it's the most unstable thing ever. Sharks, how about that?

I read this last night. This is six coaches in seven years. Four years, four of those years, they made the friggin' NBA finals. Yeah, I mean, it's funny you talk about Memphis, right? That team had Powell Gasol, didn't it? Yeah. With Uzi Brown on it. Yes.

Like, I'm looking at this roster in Cleveland, which turns out to me is, like, it's one thing to not win games. But if you're not winning games and no one's passing the ball, that's really miserable. Like, they're leading assist guy is Garland at 3.8. Unbelievable. So if you're a veteran and you're losing every night

and you have two guards who aren't moving the ball, it's like, this is horrible. Right? Like, I feel to me, like, that's my big takeaway from this team is like, if you're rebuilding,

you've got to have somebody in there who moves the ball. Because if you're rebuilding and a bunch of guys are just jack shots, it's just, and somebody like Beeline and those college type coaches

that can be hard on guys, those are better suited to take over, winners. You know what I mean? Like, and then augment. And now their strategy and what they can bring to the table helps the situation more so than like, and I, like, you remember years ago where the Detroit Pistons were awesome and they're going to the East Finals, but losing. And then they bring in Larry Brown and they win the title. Oh yeah, yeah. And Larry Brown, he ended up with all kinds of teams resenting him, hating him, you know, whatever. But he took over a winner and he could go in there and he could

augment what they were doing and just implement the strategy. And so it works when that's what you are bringing to the table. But if you put Larry Brown with the young team, it was always trouble, you know. And I do think that that's probably true of most college coaches take over crappy teams. That's the truth. And the ones that haven't have usually done pretty well. Like Brad Stevens. Yeah, Billy Donovan. Billy Donovan. Yeah. And then the ones that have taken over bad situations, they usually lose. You know, I mean, look, everybody could say, well, we've seen this a lot with college coaches, and you go all the way back to Rick Petino.

I promise you, if Rick Petino that year, if they would have gotten Tim Duncan, Rick Petino's probably looked at as one of the greatest coaches to ever walk the face of the earth. But they didn't get Tim Duncan. They got whoever, Ron Mercer or whoever they ended up with. Well, it's kind of like with coaching, really the most important part of coaching is picking a good team, right? That's like 90% of the battle right now.

And those jobs aren't open. That's why I was so excited for my guy Taylor Jenkins when he got that Memphis job. I'm like, oh, there's actually good pieces here. If you've gone to Cleveland, it'd have been the same thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You end up falling by the wayside. So anyways, here's what we know.

No matter what happens with John B-Line, it would be absolutely stunning and awkward to see him on the sidelines post-all-star break. And if he's not, I do wonder, because I just covered this guy the last couple of years, if my guy, J.P. Bickerstaff's going to get the job there, which would be so funny, charts, because J.B. Bickerstaff was the lead assistant for Kevin McHale, and they get rid of him in Houston, and he takes over as the interim. He was the lead assistant for David Fisdale. David Fisdell got fired, and J.B. Bickerstaff took over as the interim. And now it would be another guy where he's...

He's the assistant for John B-line, and he takes over for the rest of the year? I mean, kiss of death. If he's on your as coaching staff. I don't know if it's the kiss of death or if J.B. is just better prepared than anyone for this situation. You know what I mean? And he's such a good guy. And he can be an NBA coach, for sure. But I swear it follows it.

It follows him. and he may end up being an interim for the third time if that's the way they go in Cleveland. A couple other quick things. I have no idea what Houston is doing signing Jeff Green. Look, this has been a thing on here for a long time, Charks. You look at all the teams overtime that have gotten worse by playing Jeff Green a lot of minutes.

and better when he is gone. From Oklahoma City to Boston to Memphis to Utah. I guess he had a moment in Cleveland during the playoffs. But by and large, Jeff Green has not been a winning player. And adding Jeff Green and Damare Carroll, I would imagine you're adding them so that there are guys that you would actually play. I said this when Utah signed him. I thought it was insane.

and I will say this again. I have no idea why Houston is signing Jeff Green and this will not be good for them. He is just not a winning player. I don't know. There's no player, maybe an NBA history, that looks the part more and yet your team loses when he's out on the court.

Like it's almost without fail over the years, your team loses with him on the court. the number is a negative. My first thought was those Cleveland teams, though, with Green, with what Houston's doing, because when they went to the finals that one year, they're playing Green as a small ball five. And I feel like that's the hope

is you're going to play on behind PJ Tucker, play some small five minutes. And if you're Houston, you know, Dan Tony only plays like seven guys anyways, right? So. He does. He's not a defender, though, either.

He is not a defender. defender. I just look, and Houston fans are going to say, oh, anything Houston does, you just crap on. I mean, look, I've been telling, I've been talking about this with Jeff Green for years, for years. Memphis has history with Jeff Green. I lived it. Y'all go way back. I lived it. I lived it. I had people, I had national writers coming on my show saying, I think that this just got Memphis possibly to the Western Conference finals by acquiring Jeff Green. Let me tell you this. That was the year that they played against and they were up two to one against the Warriors. Tony Allen, Torres Hamstring went out.

Jeff Green played. They scored like 60 points the next game. Jeff Green playing instead of Tony Allen was a absolute debacle. And so I've lived this. I've lived it. And I've seen it in the other cities that he has gone to since. and nobody gets worse when Jeff Green is taken out of the equation. Nobody.

No team ever gets worse. And that first, that first Sean pick, right? That's the Jeff Green pick when you're sending the Boston picture. It is the Jeff. It is the Jeff Green pick. Thank God for John Morant. Thank God for John Moran.

And DeMarre Carroll, I mean, he's been in witness protection all year, so I have no idea if he can play anymore or not. None. Yeah, he's getting up there. He's a tough guy. He's tough. but I'll, but I don't know if he could help the situation at all. Last thing real quickly on the news front, the G-League Players Union is a go.

That is happening. That was voted on over the weekend. And this is reported by Adrian Wajornowski back in the fall. But it is another step in the right direction towards, you know, 100% total legitimacy for the G-League as a league. And I do wonder if, you know, as you have seen this thing grow from whatever it is, eight teams to like 28 teams, the majority of teams in the NBA have their own G league team and are using it. You are seeing all kinds of players, including now all stars that were outstanding players in the G league and have spent time there. A lot of rookies and second year players have spent a lot of time there in development. And so now as this, you know, as this progresses, I do wonder what the G league is going to look like in five to 10 years because I will tell you as someone who does, you know, go to G league games every once in a while, the quality of play and the quality of player is just infinitely better than it was even four or five years ago.

and I think there's a lot of guys who were going overseas because that's where they could make a lot of money and the pay was so crappy in the G League that they would just go and they would play in France or they would play in Greece or they would play wherever and a lot of guys still do. But as the money gets better and the environment for the players get better,

I do think you are going to see even more growth than we have seen already, which I think is very good, considering everything that's going on with college basketball and that there have been guys that are high-level prospects already going and playing in Australia and New Zealand and wherever else already, right? Yeah, I was at the G-League showcase in December, and when I heard about this, I was thinking about guys like, I think people know, do you remember Travis Ware, UCLA, Big Man? He's like 32 now. He's like in his eighth season in the G-League.

I mean, I guess he's making a living doing it. There's like Crash Davis is now all over the G League. Just guys who make a living playing, you know, hooping in random cities in the U.S. and they can make more money doing that more power to him. You would, you, and I've seen, gosh, I've seen all kinds of guys. Who did I see last year? I saw Anthony Bennett last year. All he did was shoot threes.

And he was an absolute house. Former number one pick, Anthony Bennett. The beat was there earlier in this season. before he got cut. Marcus Teague, you know, is still playing in the G League? Yes, you're right. There's all kinds of guys that you remember

and a lot of former NBA players that are still playing basketball in the G League. But anyways, hopefully this just continues to get better and better, and that was a good sign over the weekend with everybody seemingly in favor of this player's union. And so it strengthens it, and hopefully it just keeps on becoming a better and better league.

All right, Charks. So as I mentioned, we're at this All-Star break, which is certainly farther down the road than the midway point of the season, but we got about 25 games left a little bit more. Four questions for post-all-Star break NBA. Are you ready? Let's do it. Whose chemistry are you most confident in coming together in time for the playoffs?

And there are a lot of teams out there that are prospective playoff teams that can be on this. The Clippers, who have not played all that many minutes together, honestly, yet those minutes have been highly successful. The Jazz, who got Conley back before the All-Star break, and Conley was very good before the All-Star break. The Rockets, who are adding more pieces to the mix, and it's felt like there has been amazing James Hardin and then mediocre to nothing like himself, James Hardin, and then there has been mediocre to nothing like himself, Russell Westbrook, and a, amazing Russell Westbrook, but simultaneously, it's been hard to get to. The Pacers are including Oladipo back into their lineup, the Mavs who are still got to figure out the whole Luca

Porzingis thing, and then the Pelicans, who obviously have put Zion into the mix where Brandon Ingram had become an all-star prior to Zion being in the mix. So Clippers, Jazz, Rockets, Pacers, Mazz, Mazzers. Pellicans. Give me the two that you are most confident their chemistry comes together. Okay, I think I'm looking at the rockets.

Because I look at that roster and everyone's roles make sense. There's not too much adjustment, right? Everyone knows, okay, this is Russ and James' team. Everyone else are going to spot up, play off those guys, defend. And there's not, like,

when you talk about guys gaining chemistry and integrating, usually it's, will certain guys accept lesser roles? right and like how will the pieces fit together and I think with Houston like the pieces just fit together

pretty seamlessly because everyone knows what they're supposed to do on this team but when we're talking about them we're not talking about all their players though charts we're talking about those two simultaneously being great and that's been hard to pull off I think but I think not having the center

has helped a lot and I think if you look at their numbers this season going back to like November when it was just Russ and James and no Capella they've been a lot better. I think they're leaning into that. It's five out basketball. It's pretty simple. So that, I think my guess, the team that's kind of got a peak going forward in the playoffs. Okay, number one for me is the Clippers. The Clippers because you look at their numbers and when they have had healthy George and healthy Kauai, like they're like a, you know, plus 10 type

team, plus nine type team. And I do think when they are completely healthy, assuming they are healthy. And they go into the playoffs. They got a bunch of tough guys on their team. And I think that those guys are not hard guys to play with. It's just they have not as a unit played a ton of minutes together. But I'd imagine down the home stretch of this season, they'll get it together. And it's just the talent overwhelms. And I think that they will, they will end up getting it together. And that when it's time, when it's go time, when it's playoff time, and you've got. If you've got a healthy Kauai and you've got a healthy Paul George, I think they will be the devastating team that we expected them to be

when they threw this all together. And the other ones to jazz. And the other ones to me, the jazz. Just because right before the break, Conley was like 25 and 5. And they were winning. And so they kind of got him integrated to where he. And obviously, I covered him his whole career. He, they'll figure it out.

They will figure that out. and they started to play a lot better and they've always been a very good second half team and I think that he is an easy guy to play with once they get it figured out. But it is a little late in the game to get it all figured out. It looks like they started to right before the All-Star break.

Well, with Utah, I still worry about the whole Conley-Engles-Mitchell triangle. It still, to me, feels like you have one too many ball handlers and there's kind of be one guy. Like the numbers say like when it's Ingalls and Mitchell, it's good, when it's Mitchell and Conley it's good. But when it's Ingalls, Mitchell, and Conley, they just haven't found the right mix

because one of those guys has to be off the ball all the time and the three guard lineup. That's my concern with Utah. Well, they started the season with poor results, with Ingalls on the bench. Maybe that is what happens with Conley. I mean, it would be very bold for Quinn Snyder to do that, a guy that gets paid $30 million and you brought in

as your, you know, huge piece. But if that, is what is best for that team. It'd be interesting. I think you have to go that way because you look at the rest of their roster. You got to have O'Neill out there. He's their best defender. You got to have Bogdanovich out there.

He's their best shooter. You got to have Gobert out there. So like, it's just an arithmetic thing. And then, and then, yes, it's a, you know, it's not necessarily what you envisioned or what you wanted to happen, but then go let Conley murder second units. But then it's like, why do you have George's? and Clarkson there.

If you're going to have Conley hold the ball and something. You're still, you're still going to need somebody to run with him. You know? Still going to need somebody to run with him. All right.

Of those other teams, is there any that you are particularly confident in? Getting it together. I mean, I think you're right about the Clippers. Like, I was looking at their lineups. If they can play Kauai,

George, Morris, Harold, that's just freaking nasty, man. That's four, six, seven guys who can defend, who can, and then three of them who can really shoot. You have Kauai and George,

But I'm wondering with L.A., do you think Lou Williams takes a step back as Kauai and George get healthier? That's what I'm watching with them is like, is he no longer as valuable given how much Kauai is going to have the ball? You got Marcus Morris takes a lot of shots too. Like is Lou Williams not their fifth option? I mean, certainly he takes a backseat to those guys. He's not going to be getting the same shots as those guys. But I do think Lou Will is a gamer. and so I do think when it comes

playoff time and he's coming off the bench and, you know, I still believe in the him and Harold thing can be devastating. You know? It can be, but on defense. See, that's my guess is Lou Williams is kind of like Conley a bit. Like on this team, I'm just not sure

he makes a ton of sense. He's still in the Clippers. He's the guy who's got to attack every time. Yeah, but when you've got those two guys at the wings, it's a lot harder to attack. you can hide Lou Williams. You can. Not everybody has a bunch of, you know, make a play off the ball guys, right?

Or pick and roll guys. And so they'll do what they, you know, they'll throw Kauai on whoever the best guard is or they can throw. That's what makes them so devastating is both George and Kauai. You can throw them on anybody to guard them. You can throw them on anybody you want to. And then you can just try to hide Lou Will when he. out there if you want to defensively. It's going to be interesting, though, because you've got a bunch of teams that still are not

at the peak of their powers and got to figure this out in the last, you know, 25 games of the season. All right. Second question. What awards aren't locked up? Feels like MVP with Janus is locked up. Do you think rookie of the year with John Morant is locked up? I think so.

For his greatest sign has been, it's only been like, what, eight games? The Grizzlies are in the playoffs right now. It's going to be hard to not give him the award, right? Like, you're a Grizzlies guy, but I think that's pretty safe to say. In terms of amount of games, there's just not an amount of games that Zion can get to, right? I mean, at most, he's playing less than half the season. I think they'd have to jump the Grizzlies in the playoffs, which is going to be hard because they're, what, five and a half games back with like 30 games left?

Yeah, it's really hard. Look at how the Mavericks have been playing, like, roughly 500 basketball for, like, 30 games. And they're still, because they started off the season 17 and 7, it's still hard for anybody to track you down. I mean, because even if you, even if you go on losing streaks, these teams got to, you know, they got to win a boatload of games. You're expecting, if you play 500 basketball, the team behind you has got to be winning like

eight out of every 10. Yeah, 75% right. And it takes a frigging month. You know what I mean? Sometimes that takes a month. month to play 10, 12 games and pull that off. All right. So the MVP rookie of the year, coach of the year? Is that up in the air? I feel like Nurse has it in the bag now, right? After the last year, I think it's gone on Toronto. I mean, you know I love Taylor Jenkins,

but Nurse has a pretty good resume right now. With them being the number two seed for sure. Yeah, after losing Kauai. That's some coaching right there. They are on pace to outdo last year's. numbers. Yeah, that's a pretty impressive thing in your resume to have that. Sixth man is always like Lou Williams. I guess a couple years ago was Aaron Gordon, or Eric Gordon, not Aaron. Sixth man of the year? So somebody that like, I guess this is still decided since neither of us just

jumped out with a name immediately. I will say Schroeder. He's been great this year for O'KC. Oh, that's a good one. If you want to switch it up. Yeah, Dennis Schrooter is a good one. He always closes games in that three-point card. lineup. I mean, I wouldn't mind getting it to him this year to switch it up.

I think that's actually a good one. I'm trying to, I'm trying to see if there's anybody else. I can't think of anybody obvious, is what I'm saying, right off the bat. Shruder's a good one, though. I like that. I could get down with Shruder. I think that's a fair one. And then the last one, defensive player of the year, I mean, it'll be Rudy Gober's award, right? I mean, you could give it to Davis or Yon. us, right? You could. So I guess it'll be one of those three. Those will be the three guys that are there. But I mean, I just feel like, like this has been the year that Gobert has finally gotten his rewards because you are seeing, you know, he finally just, they just put him on the All-Star team, right? And so it starts to feel like, okay, now people are going to start giving Rudy Gobert credit. But you might be right. Anthony Davis, you know, kind of campaigned for it at the beginning of the year, saying that he wanted that award.

And so it very well may be Davis, especially if you look up at the end of the year and they are, they've got that, you know, number one seat on lock. So if you got the best player on the, you know what I mean? You got the best player or a best player on the best team. You know, weirdly, I was, I was thinking about Gobert. And the game that made me want to give him the defensive player the year was a game they lost against Houston when Eric Gordon had 50. and they had Gobert the three point line

and was like, oh, wait a minute, if Gobert's not in the paint, you've got like Bogdanovich and Ingalls trying to guard people and like, it's not working at all. And you remember, yeah, he's the whole defense in Utah. The rest of those guys,

they'd be him and O'Neill. Everyone else is kind of average at best defensively, and they're a freaking amazing defense. And that's just like, okay, when Gobert's not there, this whole thing falls apart really quickly. There's an awesome team

that has a chance of being the four seed in both conferences. Who is most scary? because you're looking at this and so the way we're doing this is you know that the 4-5 is going to feed into the 1 seed.

So if you are the Lakers and you are Milwaukee, it's who you would face in round number two. And as of right now, the Jazz are a half a game behind the clippers. So if they were to leap the clippers

in this last part of the season, that would put them at three, therefore putting the clippers and the rockets at four and five. But it could be Utah, it could be the rockets, it could be the clippers, could be the Thunder, the Mavs, any of those in that four or five game. And right now it's Miami and Philly in the four or five matchup in the Eastern Conference. So if we just take those teams, Miami, Philly, Utah. Rockets, Clippers. Who are you most scared of

if you are the Bucks or the Lakers? In fact, let's throw the clippers out because the clippers. I was going to say that's too easy. Yeah. Okay. Of course the clippers. All right.

The heat and the Sixers, the Jazz and the Rockets. Who are you most scared of if you are either Milwaukee or the Lakers? We've talked a lot about the Rockets, but if I'm L.A., and I watched that game, what was it,

last week against Houston when Houston beat them. And just the way Houston plays, it's just a wild card, right? Like, they're just a different type of team. You got Harden and Westbrook. I mean, to me, that's a team no one wants to face in the first round, or like in the later state is Houston. They're like the one team that's kind of, you don't know what you're going to get from them because they're going to make you play their style of basketball, right?

Like, you're going to have to play run and gun, score one point to beat Houston. Well, and that's the most scary. or do the Lakers totally dictate that? And so it weirdly makes it easier, right? If they were playing against Utah, you've got Gobert in there in the paint to deal with Davis. And those things just become, you know, 96 to 92 dog fights. Whereas are they able to slow down Houston and turn it into their kind of game? Because you know when it comes to playoff time, LeBron's walking the ball up the court.

they are not going to race up and down the court and take a million threes. And so you get them in that kind of game. And then when they throw, you know, Davis and Dwight and LeBron out there, that this small ball lineup just can't get a rebound at all. I guess because you're right just because of the difference in style, it becomes more of a wild card, whereas they're probably just better than Utah. Yeah, I think against Utah, you know,

I'm going to go small, play Davis at the five, spread out gobert, expose the other guys. And then it's going to be Mitchell versus LeBron. I'm feeling pretty good about that. I mean, to me, the wild card. And then in the east, it's Philly. It's the same thing. Like, did you see Philly against Clippers the other night when they benched Hwarford?

And that's like, okay, let's remember we still have Simmons and Embed. And if we play three shooters with those guys, that's a lot of talent for a five. Oh, and they were unbelievable. I mean, look, there was a game last week that I was. watch them. And somebody, oh, it was that game. It was a, okay, so Kauai had come down. He did this move. He did this little up and under and he finishes, right? And so the ball kind of goes behind the basket. And somebody's got to go get it. And then they're now they throw it in. And like all four of them happened to be walking up at the same time. Right? They're all kind of crossing half court

at the same time. And it's Simmons, Embed, Tobias Harris, and Horford. They were all crossing half court. And I'm watching this game. And as they are crossing half court, it's this visual of them like, all right, now they're crossing half court. They're going to go set up on offense. It's like, freaking looking at four centers walking across the half court line together. I mean, they are huge. When it's all spread out, you can kind of forget. But as all four of them were walking across that half court line together, I'm thinking of myself, good grief. I mean, the size of this team. And obviously Simmons and Embed were simultaneously awesome in that particular game that you're

talking about with the Clippers. And I do feel like if you're the Bucks, they're going to put Embed on Yannis. And one thing I was thinking about, I noticed Yonis always picks Embed in these little all-star drafts. I think he respects his game. He's like, this guy is a freaking tank. He's huge. And like that's the one guy who can keep Yannis out of the rim.

M.B. didn't make Yonah shoot jumpers, which we'll see if you can do that in the playoffs. that at least gives you a chance. Whereas if it's Miami and you're Milwaukee, you're like, okay, it's Giannis. Miami is no picnic either though. Now with Crowder, now with Igwadala, they got Bam.

I mean, they got some tough dudes to throw at you. They are, they do, but Janus is bigger than all those guys. When it really comes down to it. I suspect he'll score over them if he needs to. He's going to get in a war with whoever they play with. Trust me. Like, they will not. That's going to be a rock fight in Miami, Philly.

That's going to be a rock fight of a series. Oh, if those two teams and you get the whole Butler thing versus Philly, oh my God. Could you imagine if that was our four or five matchup to feed into Milwaukee? I love to see Butler versus Simmons. I wonder if it can get in Simmons' head. That'd be interesting, too. Well, we know Jimmy Butler will show up playoff time.

Last one. Question four for the post-all-Star Break NBA. do teams even tank down the stretch? Given that we saw how the odds played out last year, Pelicans moving up to one, Grizzlies moving up to two, and then the Knicks, you know,

end up with the third pick overall, calves moving down, these other teams moving down. Is it worth tanking given we saw how the odds played out and that this draft is, you know, does anybody care about getting,

obviously you would rather, the number one pick than you'd rather have two, three, four, whatever, right? You want the highest pick you could possibly get, but there certainly feels like there is absolutely no consensus on who the number one pick is even going to be. And we don't have, you know, we're pretty far down the line, certainly in college basketball and then the guys that are not playing college basketball, we've probably seen the last of them until workouts and getting ready for the NBA draft. Do you think teams even tank

down the stretch this year? See, I think the most egregious tanking has always been for protected picks. That's when you see teams really going and it's like, okay, like if Memphis was bad this year and they had that top protected pick to Boston, I think they would tank for sure. But that picks

already gone and I was looking at like the future picks list. There's really no really bad protections this year where a team has a big incentive to lose. And I think that's what causes the most egregious tanking. So in that sense, no, I don't think so. There's no one who has to keep their pick this year,

who's going to lose it otherwise. And you're right, like, the odds now are so even, it doesn't really matter anyways. Do you have a strong opinion of who will go one? I'm leaning towards Anthony Edwards, the Georgia kid. I mean, for as much as, like,

he's got some real holes in his game, but the answer, oh yeah, he's 6, 5, 2,30, he can stroke threes, and he can dribble. If you caught some right now, he'll score 40 points, and it's hard to see the guy

with that kind of physical talent. I think I'll end up going one, do my guess. I'm interested in seeing him, like, especially in the SEC tournament and stuff. He's probably not going to get,

I mean, he won't be playing in the NCAA tournament unless he got on a run and carried them all the way through. But I'll tell you, I saw Edwards this year, um, played a game in Memphis.

And if you would have not told me that he's top five on draft boards, there is absolutely no way I would have known by watching him. No way. Yeah. I mean, he's got some Wiggins in his game. He'll just disappear.

I just not. I just didn't. He doesn't make guys better. No, there's, and I've seen a lot of guys. I mean, I see, look, everybody from De Aaron Fox to Buddy Heel to all, and I've gone to NCAA tournament a bunch of times over the years. And many times, like, look, even if you watch Duke last year, you watch Zion, you watch R.J. Barrett, you know, like, you see it immediately.

And that is just, that, that was not the case with, uh, with, with, uh, with, Edwards. And who knows? Like, you know what I mean? It might have just been the wrong game to see him. Certainly he's had some other big games this year. But when you're talking Anthony Edwards and Lamello Ball, R.J. Hampton, I saw in person earlier this year. I would say talking about guys not playing in the NCAA, don't be surprised some of these European kids are moving up. Killian Hayes, Denny Avija, Theo Maladon. These are names that are going to be popping up more and more as the American guys don't kind of do anything. Any of those that you're crazy about?

I'm going back and forth, but I think Hayes is really interesting. He's a 65 point guard. He can really shoot it. He's 18. I think he's got some DeAngel Russell in his game, which is, you know, not the best thing in the world, but in a draft like this, there might be enough. Where's he playing? He's playing in Germany right now. very good i will make sure to check them out chargers you the best thank you so much for filling in for

k o c of course and uh we miss you kevin hopefully he'll be back soon gonna do it for another ringer mbaughn thanks to bobby wagner for producing as always if you dig what you're here go give us a rating and review on itunes five stars five stars really helps and we will talk to you on friday