The Ringer NBA Show - Free Agency Day 1 Madness: The Sixers! The Knicks … The Nets! And Wherever Kawhi Goes | Heat Check

Episode Date: July 1, 2019

Free agency is finally here! The Philadelphia 76ers sign-and-trade Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat (1:24) and the New York Knicks strike out while the crosstown Brooklyn Nets sign two megastars (23:00). Plus: Where will Kawhi Leonard end up? Could the reloaded Utah Jazz be real contenders? What in the world are the Charlotte Hornets doing? And much, much more (39:26). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Chris Ryan, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. This week on The Ringer.com, our staff is ranking the 100 best moments in culture so far in 2019. This includes everything that happened in film, TV, celebrity news, meme-dom, and more. Cracking the top 100s so far are J-Lo and A-Rod's engagement, the rise of Lizzo, and the Cliff Wife phenomenon. Also, be sure to listen and subscribe to Ringer Dish, our new celebrity podcast, and catch the latest episode covering their favorite moments from this year in pop culture. You can subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is John Gonzalez. Before we get into today's heat check, a quick disclaimer, we're going to hear a lot of conversation about Gorondragic being included and shipped from Miami to Dallas.

That was the information we had during the podcast, but as you might expect, during free agency, a lot of things change and shift. And as soon as we were done recording, there were reports that Goran Dragrick had not been included in the deal and is still in Miami.

Who knows? By the time you listen to this, he might be gone again. But just keep that in mind as you're listening. And we've got all kinds of good stuff for you. So let's roll it. That's a boat torch.

It's a heat check. You knew that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to a special emergency, free agency, heat check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez. Isaac Lee is here. Chris Ryan is here. Kevin O'Connor is here.

We're going to do a whole thing on the Knicks. Screw the Knicks. The Philadelphia 76ers come off the top row per usual to screw up everybody's day, off season, potentially season, period. Looks like they are signing and trading. Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat, as expected four-year contract, $142 million. And in exchange, they will get Josh Richardson back. And in the process, Chris Ryan, signing Al Horford to a four-year deal worth a little over $100,

worth right around $109 million, 97 of which, according to Woj, will be guaranteed. $12 million in bonuses. Elton Brand has remade the Sixers again. Again. Okay. So every, what, 11 to six months, the Six months, the Sixth? completely reboot their franchise, but this feels right to me. This feels good.

Okay, so let's just, let's assume they offered Jimmy the five, right? And they were like, hey, we traded for you. We want you to be here as the max. And Jimmy said, no, I want to go to Miami for whatever reasons. He saw a Dwayne Wade video that inspired him. And he thought, that's how I want to end my career, going on a victory lap where everybody hands me a jersey or a piece of wood from their, like, bathroom or whatever. And let's do it that way.

So he goes off. We got an amazing return for him. We didn't, like, he could have screwed us over and gone to the Lakers. He could have done anything. I don't want to say too much, oh, sweet, but it's going to happen. No, do it. And now this team almost recalibrates itself to rather than having this push-pull between, is this a Joel and Bid, Ben Simmons axis with, like, other complimentary parts like Covington and Sarish and these other guys,

to, well, there's Joel and Ben, but then there's these veteran superstars who are also here on the win now window. This team feels right. This team feels even. Big Al Horford has destroyed the Sixers for more years than I can count. Now we bring him into the full. Josh Richardson, dare I say, a younger, healthier Jimmy Butler clone?

Yeah, I mean, Chuck's wrote about him earlier this season. Not everything he does, but a really good two-way wing, right? Yeah, not as good a ball handler. Not a headache. Right. Not a headache. Really good defender. 25 years old.

And here's the other thing. Better shooter. Better shooter. And on just an absolute sweetheart contract. where they have him under control through 2022 for a maximum in that final year of 11.6 million allows them to do a lot of other things.

A lot of other things. And then you have Tobias in the natural, like, small forward. He is now like the number one perimeter scoring option for this team pretty much. And then, yeah, there's going to always be questions about Bensonman's shot and Joel Embed's health. But to me, this feels like, and I wanted Jimmy Butler back,

but if this is the alternative, I love the alternative. I don't mind if we win every game. game 82-78. This team is enormous. This team is really funky and interesting now. I'm really, really excited for the Sixers team. Long ball. Yeah, man.

It's long ball. This is a massive starting lineup when you consider, like, how many teams are built to actually defend a team this big with Ben Simmons, Joel Abede, and Al Horford, three guys who are large but also have a lot of skill with their passing ability or their scoring ability, never mind the large backcourt that they have with Richardson and Harris. With this roster, you can play so many different styles. You can shrink down and play with a more traditional lineup,

or you can have this jumbo lineup. And then off the bench, I mean, we'll see who they add with minimum contracts and whatever else. But Matisse Thibel, maybe as a rookie he can contribute on the defensive end. Zaire Smith, another rookie, hopefully his jump shot develops. But they have some younger pieces to complement their five core players. But obviously, like with this team, it's like you said, Chris, there's two different sides. There's the young guys with Ben and Joel still. but now you have some proven veterans

and a guy like Josh Richardson who especially I think is a, he's not better than Jimmy Butler, but he's a better fit than Jimmy Butler because he's a better off ball shooter, a better guy who's not going to like demand the ball to have it in his hands, somebody who's a better defender than Jimmy Butler at this point in his career.

So the Sixers entered this off season with so many questions with Harris and with Jimmy Butler. And as right as of now, they're in better shape than they were before. Yeah, Josh Harris, or Josh Harris, Josh Richardson is the, We'll get to Josh Harrison a second. Josh Richardson is the part of this that I might like the best.

Tobias Harris, you know, five years at almost the full max, 9.9 million shy of the full max. They didn't get a huge discount there. They had to give them that extra year in order to keep him. It felt like they were always going to have to do this. Like when I had talked to people when the trade happened, when they acquired them from the Clippers, it felt like an overpay,

which immediately people around the league were like, oh, well, when they go into the off season now, he's going to have to probably be priority number of. one, even potentially over Jimmy Butler. And it seems like that's kind of how it shook out for the Sixers side. And then maybe Jimmy just wanted to go. He wanted to go to Miami. That's fine.

But I really like the Josh Richardson component. I'm less crazy about the number of years and the money you had to do with Tobias. But at least he fits on the timeline. How do we feel about the starting? Here's the thing. You just said timeline. Everything with this team, like, granted, look, like the starting five and everybody was like, look, when the starting five is healthy and playing together and it's clicking,

it's just as good as Golden State and this dream of running it back which I was completely fine with if that's what was going to happen. It's not my money. I like all those players. But the thing you're talking about is timeline. That second half of last season,

it felt like there was a clock ticking in the background like a Christopher Nolan trailer because we knew that this day was coming where there was going to be this reckoning with Harrison Butler and there was going to be, there was a tension around the team because of that. And I just feel like there's a way more of a harmony outside of like, I don't know anything about these guys's personalities.

really. But there is a harmony to the way the team is set up and the order to the team. Like Horford is not, is like an incredible locker room presence, but he's not going to demand touches. You talk about this all the time. He has an impact on a team that's not seen him in counting stabs. And I just think that it's going to have a really, really, really good knock on effect for Ben Simmons, who they were talking at, like one of the first stories that came out today was that they were working on extension with him. Yeah. Well, I mean, and all right. So, yeah, Simmons is 22 and Bede is 25. Richardson is 25. Toby is But you mentioned

So all of these work out Is the DL is the DLRT. He's the resident advisor It doesn't matter I know you said that to me earlier today The time is now, Gons. The time is now Embed is 25 going on 35 at times.

He walks around and lummers around like he's always hurt. So for Joe Allen Bede right now is the time to go for a championship these next couple of years when you have Joe Alambide and Ben Simmons

hopefully entering their primes of their careers, having a guy like Tobias Harris, who is an unselfish offball player, having a guy like Josh Richardson, who is, again, an unselfish offball player who can also do some stuff on ball, having Al Horford, who, it's going to be hilarious seeing Sixers fans make an All-Star case for Al Horford now after years with memes about how like, oh, it set six screens per game. You should get permanently unbanned from every podcast because of that, because you were right the first time around.

Shout out to speaking about bands, shout out to Spike asking for calling up with Jimmy Bobby. I like Al Horford a lot. I think he's going to do a lot of things. You can play him with Ambid. You can stagger them. Obviously, you know, the whole load management thing became a problem for them. They sort of reversed it last season where they played him a ton at the beginning of the season

and then set him at the end instead of getting him ready for the postseason by sitting him earlier. But now you're not going to have to worry about that situation that they got into what we saw with the Toronto Raptor series where they're trying to squeeze two and a half minutes out of Greg Monroe. Well, now you've got Al Horford. All of that is to the good. I was talking with our buddy Mike Levin earlier today about this. and he kind of like, we were talking about the possibility of Butler going to Miami, what could come back, what the Sixers would do if they got Horford.

And he even said it, I'm sure he'll say it on the right, Sirkeesie Sanchez. He was like, this feels very Toronto-y. It's like they just saw the Gasol Abaka and, you know, that kind of huge depth in the front court that they had and the way that that defense impacted the finals and the playoffs. It just feels like that is a little bit behind their thinking here. Let's go through. All right, so it would be Simmons and Tobias Harris and beat a,

Josh Richardson for sure in the starting five. Would you also start Al? I mean, we don't know what the rest of the roster is going to look like, but are you going to start the two bigs at the same time? You're okay with that. All right. I don't want, because I do like, I thought that this was going to be a very, this offseason was going to be like a high degree of difficulty for Elton Brand.

Right. And we have that front office that post, you know, pulling out Brian Colangelo and inserting Elton Brand and like Brian Colangelo's leftover, lieutenants have a say and ownership has a say, and we know that the business side of the operation with Scott O'Neill has had an increasing say since Sam Hinky left, and all these cooks are in the kitchen, right? So that was complicating matters as well. So I think on the whole, I like the way that this shook out. It could definitely be worse. However, I want to play devil's advocate here. Who's shooting the ball again? Because they lose JJ, and there were times frequently last season and in the postseason, and this is why I

didn't want them to give up Landry Shamit, where, you know, they really needed a bucket, they needed a score. They needed somebody to come off one of those screens or, you know, the dribble handoff that they frequently ran with JJ and NMB, where they just needed some scoring. And shooter-wise, they're definitely thin now. I don't have an answer. It's going to have to be like a paradigm shift. They will have to win basketball games in a different way than the kind of the way that we've seen over the last few seasons, right? The dominant NBA paradigm of space and pace and shooting from all corners, it's just not going to be the Sixers' recipe to win. So if they're going to win, it's going to be because you cannot score on them.

They run you off the line with these enormous good defenders, and they can switch a lot. Shooting? I think the shooting is not great, but it's not horrific by any means. Tobias Harris didn't shoot the ball well last year with the Sixers, but still over the course of his career, he's a near 40% catch-and-chute three-point shooter.

Josh Richardson, a near-catch-and-chewt, a 40-catch-thoot three-point shooter. Al Horford, a very good shooter for a big man. So then you'd have Joel Embed, who's an average shooter, Ben Simmons, who is a non-shooter who shoots with the wrong hand. So it's like this team, they don't have a lot of great shooting, but like you said, they're going to have a different look, but they still have some good enough shooters on their team to create spacing for what this roster might look like with some funky. I mean, one of the things the Sixers did last year and a couple of other teams did too is they ran like side pick and rolls like on the baseline, like 10 feet away from the rim. I wonder if we'll see some more of that from Philadelphia. We saw that from the bucks last year. We saw it from Philly.

Some more like weird, funky side pick and rolls near the room where you're capitalizing on your side and maybe forcing teams to play big, forcing teams to play jumbo. Let me ask you a question, though, because this is one thing, the one note of caution, and for what it's worth,

apparently Woj just said on the jump that the Sixers did not want to extend Jimmy and were ready to move on a while ago. That's interesting. I haven't seen that reported anywhere. Like the same way that the Knicks are having to do a lot of crisis management right now, that could be Jimmy going in the Sixers and saying I'm not even interested. And they're like, well, we've been ready to move on.

There were rumblings during the season that Butler wanted out. Remember the time when he complained about his role in the offense? I think you and I might have talked about this. There were rumblings that he wanted out during the season. So if you're Philadelphia, it's like, look, we've had you for six weeks. Like, you already won out? You know, and who knows how true that actually is. But in late December, around the time he complained about the offensive role.

there was a chance to either Elton Brand or the six of the factions of the Sixth's front office where it was like maybe we should flip them maybe we should they didn't

but now they essentially have for Horford and Richardson which is a net win for Philadelphia the thing I was just gonna bring up was that I do feel for Brett Brown because now this is like the fifth offensive system

he's gonna have to draw up in three years or something like that you know what I mean like this is gonna require a different way of thinking about the team than it was a bad thing though I think last year with Jimmy Butler

they evolved a little bit They didn't run enough pick and roll, I don't think, until the postseason started. But now Brett Brown is forced to totally, you know, maybe not overhaul the system, but make some massive tweaks. Like, he's going to get, you know, creative here with this roster. Like, we haven't seen a team this big in quite a while in the NBA. I mean, I can't think of a team this decade that's been this big. Can you guys?

I want to see what the rest of just like the magic. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I know. I want to see what the rest of the salary cap filler. is to make that deal go down. The reports here that Gorindragic to the Mavs

is part of making Capspace work on the Butler deal. So they have to make a little bit of room there. Which is fine, you know, good for the Mavs. It gives Dantich a buddy to hang out with. Right. They can go and... Who reported that? It just popped up in my timeline.

So it was probably just complete fake news. Regardless. Boss John follows. Yeah, probably right. The salary cap loss. Regardless of who it is, whether there's Drogich or Dionne Waders or Kelly Olinick, it doesn't sound like that player will be going to Philadelphia. It seems like they would be looking for a third player in the team, which makes sense

because of Philadelphia's current cap situation. Right now, as it stands, they have about $118 million in total salary, and then they're going to have to pay Ben Simmons this coming summer and must they extend them ahead of time. But Philadelphia will be a tax team with this. roster. Which is what we expected. They don't want to and can't take on additional salary because they're going to have to use the league men in them to sign other fraudians to fill this roster out.

They've got to fill out the roster. I was curious about that, but I think on the whole, you know, turning Robert Covington and Dario into a Jimmy rental and then turning that into Josh Richardson and Al Horford space, could be worse. I mean, this was, again, like, I had my doubts about this front office because we saw what happened in the draft where, you know, they decided to just toss away a bunch of picks. They signaled how much they wanted Matisse Thiable. Everybody in the league know it.

Everybody everywhere knew it. And it started to worry me a little bit about, okay, well, everybody knows that they're going to have to probably throw an extra year or some extra money at Tobias Harris. And I wondered if they would have to do that with Jimmy Butler as well. And I think on the whole, considering how many different moving parts that they had here, not a bad job by Alton Brand. I mean, I'm obviously really ecstatic with this.

For some reason, this feels like a more logical team to me. I don't know. I just immediately like the reaction I had to like seeing the sticker was just like, yes, that's the Sixers. Well, I mean, you mentioned earlier, like you don't know the personality of all these guys. So we can do our armchair psychologist thing from the side and see that it wasn't an imperfect fit personality-wise with Jimmy Butler being a bald dominant personality. Like he is a guy on the court, off the court who wants to be somebody in control. He's going to get to do that in Miami. Great for him.

Great for that team. But for Philadelphia, there's just too many forces working against each other with Ben Simmons, another guy. who wants the ball on his hands. Joel Al-Beed, a guy more of a post-player who warrants having the ball on his hands now. The pieces just fit more naturally together with Al Horford, Josh Richardson, and then Tobias Harris, guys who are more willing to play that off-ball role coming off screens and hand-offs. Never mind the fact that with their first-round draft, Piqumouth, he's Stuybal. I know there's been a lot of people saying, like, why did they draft a non-shooter?

But Thibel may have shot 31% as a senior at Washington, but over his four years there, he's still shot around 35 or 36% from 3, which is not great, but it's solid. And like, he's an elite defender, a guy who's going to come in right away and have the ability to defend a high character guy who can pass, who can make smart plays, who can defend multiple positions. You had me in hello, KOS. So, you know, with Thibel, it's like maybe he's not an elite shooter, but what he is is a guy who's going to accept his role and maximize his role and whatever level he reaches as a shooter will be a positive addition for that team. So, like, they are a deep team will star power and a lot of unselfish guys that will be willing to accept their role around

the bald omic guys and none of these guys god bless jimmy but none of them are going to be like i want to be the point card it's it's on ben now like we put the ball back in ben simmons's hands and i know that all these bad things come along with that or at least there's all these question marks around his ability to close games especially in the postseason but we're going to find out it's not going to be like oh why don't you go play dunker you know why don't you go float around like while Jimmy dribbles at the top of the key and does pick and roll with Joe Ellen beat, which I thought was very effective and it got between four bounces away from going to the conference finals and who knows where beyond that, but it didn't work.

This is what I think that this is a win for the Sixers. I think it's a win for Elton Brand. I think it works out. I wasn't sure that they'd be able to do all this juggling, and they did. However, what you just said is interesting to me because when we got to the playoffs, I'm saying we as the league, when we got to the playoffs and we saw the 76ers the way that they changed their offense, went from, hey, Ben Simmons is our point guard, and this is the way we play to, oh, shit, yeah, we can't really play Ben Simmons that way. We've got to have Jimmy Butler as our, like, predominant.

And Jimmy was like, I want to do that. And they needed them to. And they needed them to. And I just wonder what happens now if you don't see that improvement from Ben Simmons is off season. Here's the thing. Josh Richardson is not a horrible pick and roll player. Like, he's not Jimmy Butler, but he's a good passer within the pick and roll who also isn't somebody that feels the need to dominate the ball. So if you need a guy who's going to run pick and roll for you, Richardson can do it. Tobias Harris can do it. And those are guys who don't feel like they have to do it. So it just makes more sense from a chemistry perspective with this current fit.

The question still is going to be, as you alluded to, Chris, how does Ben Simmons develop? Does his jump shot make any progress at all going into the season? Does Joelle Ambide, who's been a 30% three-point shooter throughout his entire career, improve as a shooter? Not for lack of trying. Yeah, he wants to. I think he's really worked hard at it. So it's like, do the young guys and Bean and Simmons continue to make progress as they have? Ben got better last year over the course of year.

He was nearly an all-NBA defender, in my opinion. He was really good defensively. And like he continues making subtle improvements as a pass or two. So it's like both these young guys keep getting better. And now they have just the right complimentary pieces around them. Can we talk a little bit about Buller and Miami? Please, yeah. Because it's such an interesting, you know, this happened.

And we had heard rumblings about this earlier in the day, but it's so interesting that this is hope, hope, hope the last deal of the day. Right. Because it's almost strange to think about Jimmy Butler looking at the east after the end of Sunday and being like, I'll go to Miami. Yeah. Which I guess speaks to maybe how he perceives himself and what he wants. And A, great place to live.

B, now it's Chicago again. Now it's Chicago Jimmy again. He's going to be the heart and soul of that team. It's his team. that fan base is going to immediately rally around him as the new Dwayne Wade, as the new kind of like the 405 guy who's going to be like the liver die heat, right? Well, there were reports, too, that part of the reason that he, you know, and previously before he left Minnesota,

there were rumblings that he wanted Miami and Miami wanted him and they couldn't pull it off and fine. But also as free agency got underway, all of a sudden when Miami emerged as, oh, Jimmy's going to take this meeting with Miami as soon as the free agency gun goes off, that part of the reason why was because he saw that the way that they treated Dwayne Wade on his way out the door, and that he wanted that too. And it does say a lot about Jimmy Butler and what Jimmy Butler prioritizes and values and what he thinks about. Because it's hard for me to reconcile, oh, if I look at the Eastern Conference, to your point, what's my best chance? I can't imagine that he did that same math and came out with, oh, Miami would be a better shot for me than staying put.

I can't. So he must have gone, this is what I prioritize. This is what I prefer, and I'm going to be the guy in Miami. It definitely seems like a guy who just believes that he is like the galvanizing force that can change the fortunes of a team, even though there's not the evidence to say that's true or not is not exactly strong. Hassan Whiteside should just leave now. He should go and hide someone. His fish are screwed. Jimmy Butler is going to eat him and his fish alive.

There's no chance that Hassan Whiteside makes out alive with Jimmy Butler. For Butler, I don't really care about like, what he values in terms of a team. For me, it's like with Miami, it's like they have a guy who can draw another star here. And they're a year or two away from that. But in 2021, they will have the ability to create a max slot. And Jimmy Butler is a player that a lot of guys would probably love to play with because he's a star player. And at that point, like, who knows what the league landscape will look like?

It seems like. Then they have to get into a locker room with him and he's playing like country music at 11. And it's like, eat shit when you're like, can you listen to my own music? But like Butler's a good player, man. And so for Miami, it's like he's somebody that can draw another guy there. The hardest thing to find is the first star. And Miami found their first star. So for them, like, their books are going to be clear in 2021,

aside from Winslow and Butler. And that's it. That's it. And like whoever young players, they sign or keep like, bam. How will Miami cope with the buying power of the New York Knicks in 2021? Multiple teams, by the way, or multiple teams, multiple reports confirming the bot that informed me that Goran Jodrick is out and go into the Mavs, so that part is done as well.

You mentioned how will they contend with these other teams. Should we talk about New York, too, because we came into this podcast, planning to discuss New York first, and then just as we were hitting go on this thing, Philadelphia, as Philadelphia's want to do, blew it all up. But there's a lot of news in New York today. Some of it good, some of it not so good. Do we want the good team first or the not so good team first? Let's do the not to a good team.

Let's get them out of the way. All right. So the Knicks, womp-womp, L-O-L-Nicks, where they go and they trade Christop's Porzengis in order to clear max cap space.

Everybody thought that it was going to be KD and Karee, and now it is not KD and Karee. It's Julius Randall for $63 million, and they're going to punt to 2021, and they even put out a statement. Yeah. Steve Mills said in a statement while we understand that some Knicks fans

could be disappointed with tonight's news, and he's right. We continue to be upbeat and confident in our plans to rebuild the Knicks to compete for championships in the future through the draft, targeted free agents and continuing to build around our core of young players.

So, KOC, you like Steve Mills, you like what they were doing initially in terms of, no, I mean, like, pre what happened today, you thought, okay, well, I get what they're trying to do here. Are you still on board? Are you, you're cool with punting to 2021 when they're, I guess it's now we're just going to sit around and wait for the Knicks now to try to land.

Yonah's just like they tried to land. LeBron, like they tried to land KD, like they tried to land Kyrie, like they tried to land basically everybody forever and still haven't pulled it off. It's not just Janus, though, it's Bradley Beale and Rudy Gober and many, many others in that class. But for the Knicks, like, I don't want to sound like Steve Mills's a PR dude here, but it's not the end of the world that they didn't sign a guy who just ruptured his Achilles and a guy that just destroyed a locker room.

It's just not. Like, for the Knicks, they can enter 2021 now with R.J. Barrett, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, whoever they take in 2020 with their first, whoever they take in 2021 with their first, and the Mavericks first, and still retain the rights to Julius Randall and whoever else they sign the remainder of this summer. All the moves they made today that people were laughing at are all two-year deals. Exactly. The point is, is that they can enter 2021 with six rookies still in their contract, a number of talented

guys, and the ability to create two max slots. And so for the Knicks, it's the type of thing where, yes, you missed, Mr. on KD who ruptured his Achilles and yes you missed out on Kaira Irving who you know destroyed a locker room but at least you still retain a really talented young core and flexibility moving forward like isn't that what we talk about what all these young rebuilding teams want flexibility the ability to create cap space to have a number of talented young players that's what the next have so I understand like the Phil Jackson error was a

disaster I understand that James Dolan is a disaster of an owner but Steve Mills has done a fine job so far and as long as James Dolan doesn't screw it all up, as long as they don't try to accelerate on here, on this rebuild and try to sign, like, DeMarcus cousins to a four-year deal, if they keep doing these two-year deals or three-year deals with an option on the last year, they're in fine shape, man. Like, they just are. Like, it's undeniable. So, I mean, it's, they're in fine shape in the version of the NBA where you either want

to be contending or rebuilding. And they are in a position right now where they're going to be bad. Because for the next two years, they're going to have high draft picks, again, with the ability to still retain max. And the question is basically, the New York fan base are like generally like some of the most engaged in smart basketball fans like I've ever come across. I'm being completely sincere.

Like my Knicks friends know as much if not more about basketball than any other teams fans that I know. Shout with the Noah from the ringer. Jason Concepcion fantasy. But that's a lot of losing. And like saying we're going to wait to 2021 for Janus while that would be an extraordinary story is just what you just

told them to do for KD and Karee. Yeah, and before that. And Dolan went out and was just like, I'm told that we're going to be in a really good spot. Now, I don't know if this story about Dolan not offering the max is true or whether it's Rich Klyman, who's

like a Knicks fan growing up or whatever, like putting out basically a countermeasure so that it doesn't seem like KD. It's not just, you honest, though. Well, hold on, hold on. Hold on. So Ramona reported, Ramona Shelburne reported that Nix owner Jim Dolan was not prepared to offer Kevin Durant a full max contract due to concerns over his recovery from the Achilles injury.

I don't know whether that's the Knicks saying that or whether that's somebody from KD's camp telling Ramona that to say this is why it didn't happen for the Knicks and Hittingty. I hear what you're saying in terms of like, let's take a rational long view approach here, but something tells me that New Yorkers and Knicks fans will not be excited about taking another long view when they were already just taking a long view for this offseason. And they had, like, part of the reason why you go and you acquire assets and you clear caps space and all this stuff is to get players that you think can be top tier players, right? And they had one in Chris Stavs-Porsengis and it didn't work out and they decided to clear

the decks for this off season and to come up short, if were I a Knicks fan or were I in that organization, to the extent that Steve Mills felt obligated to put out what we could describe as an unusual statement. This is not something that teams usually do. They don't usually go, ah, listen, I know you're kind of bummed out right now. They never do that shit. And he did that, and I think, like, I get it.

I get why he did, because I think the reaction here is going to be, sure, you could tell us to wait and hold tight, but you just told us to do that. Well, and, you know, for the Knicks, it's like, they shouldn't care what the fans want. They should just don't care. It doesn't matter. They should continue doing what they're doing.

Because for 2021, it's not just Janus. It's Paul George. It's Damien, it's, it's, it, It was Damian Lillard. It's C.J. McCollum, that's who I meant. It's Drew Holiday, Rudy Gobert, Bradley Beale. It's a lot of guys that you have. Dude, we've seen.

But are you confident in that? Yes, we've seen it. And are you confident in that what James Dolan still at the top of the work? I don't know. But I'm confident with a young group of talent that they have. Where at least you're assembling a talented young core. And over the next two years, you need to repair your image across the league. Oh, by the way, we just saw the Lakers last year signing LeBron.

And then this year, a team that was also a disaster. with their ownership in their front office, sign the best player in the world, and then bring one of the best young players in the league in Anthony Davis. With the Knicks, it's like, at that point, who are the other options for these players? New York could make themselves one of,

maybe the top destination for the guy. So it's like, there's no guarantees. I got you. I completely understand, but let me flip the thinking around on you. If it's not a big deal that they missed on Katie and Kyrie, is it a big deal that Brooklyn hit? It's a, I mean, it's not a big deal.

I'm not saying it's not a big deal. No, but I'm saying like basically, to extend that idea forward, it's like, is it actually not that big of a deal that Brooklyn got a locker room cancer or a guy with one leg? I think it's a big deal for both. It would have been a big deal for the next design because those guys, those guys are also, it's a guy who has a broken leg, but also is one of the best players in the world when healthy. Carrier Irving is also a guy who is one of the best point guards of the decade.

So it's like, yes, it's a big deal if they missed out on those guys. but it's not the end of the world that they didn't. Because there's always other paths. It's not just Katie and Kyrie or or Punting to 2021 or building with a young core organically like many other teams in history have done and remaining flexible.

There's A, B, C, D, E, FG. There's not just A or B. That's what I mean with the Knicks. I like Kevin O'Bride, Kevin O'Graths Half Full. I appreciate this. I think it's... Is it half full all here? I think it's a better...

for the Nets part of it than it is for the Nix part of it. Just like if I were a Nix fan, I'd go, oh, man, again, still. And if you were a Nets fan, you'd be like, there's a stadium in Brooklyn? Yeah, exactly. But this is exciting. Okay, so we obviously were pumping up to Philadelphia 76ers in terms of their Eastern Conference.

Title hopes now. We'll get to the Bucks who got as close as possible to running it back, although they traded Malcolm Brogden in a sign-in trade. but the Nets, this has to elevate them and they've got to be excited about this too because I asked you about this when we did an earlier live show how much of an improvement

is Kyrie Irving over DeAngelo Russell when you factor in the price point difference too and you said significant that price point. You don't care about the price point you think he's that much better. I think with Kyrie Irving, there's been the talk recently like do you want to sign Carrie Irving if he doesn't bring Kevin to rent?

Bring Katie, it's like obviously you do it but just looking at Kyrie versus DeAngel Russell in a vacuum to me, Kyrie is still clearly the better investment for the Nets. Kyrie is still only 27, Russell's 23, so both of them could have their best years ahead of them. And if they are the same as they are today, Kyrie Irving has proven himself on the biggest stages and the biggest moments throughout his career as an elite shooter from all ranges on the floor, a guy who can get to the rim when he wants to, sometimes not enough,

but he can whenever he wants to. Whereas with DeAngelo Russell, he's above average to, good shooter who had a career best season on shooting mid-range pull-ups and floaters, and a guy who doesn't get to the rim, who doesn't draw falls because of his average first step, doesn't have a lot of burst, and he's not an athletic physical player around the rim. I mentioned the stat earlier to Ugans where of players that have attempted at least 18 shots per game in NBA history, Russell has the second lowest free throw rate of any of them.

So he's a guy who, that was an issue for him in Ohio State. It's an issue today in the NBA. And the odds are it's probably always going to be an issue. So when Russell's shot isn't falling, he doesn't have anything else that he can really fall back on. Whereas Kyrie, he can do anything on the basketball court. He's an upgrade. Then when you factor in Kevin Durant returning next year,

whether he's 60% of his former self, 80% or 100% of his former self, the Nets are going to be positioned to be one of the teams that is competing for championships moving forward. That's the loss for the NICs, and it's the gain for the Nets. Does Kyrie and everything that he brings and then KD a year from now on one leg frightening you? How scared are you of the Nets right now?

I mean, I'm as scared as the Nets as I am of a Kauai with the Raptors of Janus and Milwaukee. It's going to be an absolute rock fight in the Eastern Conference for the next five or six years indefinitely. I don't know what it seems like there's just a huge con... These teams are all micro-super teams now. So the thing that we were talking about

in terms of what the Knicks were doing, and you either choose, you're either contending or you're rebuilding and there's no in the middle. While I respect what Indiana is trying to do, and even in a weird perverse way, what Orlando is even trying to do, which is like we're trying to build on the moderate success that we had last season and hope that our young guys get better. Ultimately, I think you're just seeing five or six teams in each conference that are just like heavyweights. And this time around next season, unless Kauai goes to Lakers, which I'm sure we'll wind up talking about next, unless Kauai goes to the Lakers, which I'm sure we'll wind up talking about next, unless Kauai goes to the Lakers,

I just see a bunch of teams in the Eastern Conference where I'm like, man, pick them. I don't know. Like, let's get into the semifinals at the Eastern Conference and see, because when you start getting into Kyrie KD, a possible run-it-back in Toronto, Milwaukee with a year, with like a bloody lip,

feeling like, okay, that's what it's like to lose. Now we come back. The Sixers with the way they're set up, it's like a fascinating, a fascinating environment. So I think that like... And, like, weird teams like Jimmy and Miami. You know what I mean? Like, that's those little...

Jimmy in Miami. It's just, you're right. Like, there are these teams that I think that we immediately would think of. And then we forget about what Indiana is doing. Or now, Jimmy, what does Jimmy Butler mean for Miami? And so, like, there could be these really interesting hiccup teams that could throw, you know, little potholes in front of everybody. You mentioned the either go for it or not go-for-it teams. The Lakers clearly established themselves as they go-for-a-team.

went and got Anthony Davis, then they clear $32 million in cab space. There's hopes for them that they'll end up signing Kawhi Leonard. But we don't know here, KOC. This is still an outstanding question, not just where Kauai will go, but if he doesn't end up with the Lakers in L.A., first of all, one of the L.A. teams is going to strike out here on Kauai automatically, if not both of them. But let's just say it's the Lakers. They clear $32 million in cap space to go over after ostensibly a max money free agent. Some people thought they might be better off just sprinkling that around to like some average

to better than average. All gone now. All gone, right? So like all of a sudden we could be. Like even Garrett Temple's gone. We went from going, what the hell are the Lakers doing because they screwed up the details with the AED trade and they cost themselves

extra money just by in terms of paperwork? To that. To clearing the $32 million and being like, oh, we're back in on Rob Polinka to now all of a sudden going, whoa shit, what happens if they don't get one of these they're playing heads up. They're playing heads and they're like standing over their pile of chips

and they're like waiting for the like they're waiting for that next card to come because Kauai's the card. And if they get Kauai, it's all good. I mean, this is your take, man. Yeah. If they get Kauai Leder, then great. They suddenly become the new Hedels.

The new Hamptons Five Warriors, the team that everybody fears and is viewed as the inevitable NBA finals champion. That's what they become if they get Kauai Lennar. And if they don't, like they're going to have to fill their guys with League Minutum, you know, veterans, and that's it. They're going to have to go for the Carmelo Anthony's of the world. They're going to have to go for the Jared Dudleys and all those guys. And you know what? They can still fill out the roster with some of the remaining guys out there, a Robin Lopez type and all that. It's just not going to be the same as having

Kawhi Leonard. But as you said, Chris, that's why they're going for that player. Ultimately, Kauai Leonard is going to be the guy who determines what this league looks like. We just got done talking about how there's 10 teams. If there's five teams in the East, five teams in the West that have a legitimate shot at the finals. Well, if Kawhi Lennan goes to the Lakers, those teams have a chance, but that's certainly going to be diminished in the perception. Yeah, everything we know about basketball from 2010 on

suggests that the Lakers would win the title. Exactly. But if he doesn't, if he stays at the Raptors or goes to the Clippers, we're going to be looking at a league with like 10, 11, 12, maybe half the league where you can make an actual legitimate case. Hey, there's a shot. The Nuggets won the title.

There's a chance to Blazers win and all. Hey, maybe the Pacers. with their new look, team could do it. The jazz. Like, oh, maybe if the Celtics trade their Memphis pick at the deadline, they can add a guy. Like, there's a shot, there's an argument for so many teams. And that parody puts so much of, like, more of a spotlight on guys like Beal.

Guys who are on those mediocre teams, you could see a little bit more of, like, a baseball style buyers and sellers situation. We're like, hey, everything we know about what's going on right now suggests like Bradley Beal is going to be unhappy since. So now we are holding an auction for him. You know what I mean? Exactly. There is like, you guys line up to the left and give us your best package.

If you think Bradley Beale is the difference between a conference semis and a finals. Kevin Love for Cleveland as well. Right. Yeah. Kevin Love is still out there too. All right. Let's take a quick break. Get a word from our sponsor and then we'll continue this conversation.

Today's episode of He Check is brought to you by Google Fi. Doesn't it feel like most phone plans just weren't made with us and mind between bad coverage, paying too much for your data? You don't actually ever use. And crazy roaming charges Google Fi is a phone plan by Google made with features that people like you and I actually want. Features like free international roaming, so you never have to worry about calling up your provider. To let them know you'll be traveling. And three networks in one. So you can stay connected wherever you are from your home to your office and everywhere in between.

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Oh my goodness. Yeah, exactly. I'm not being funny. That literally feels like a gambling debt getting paid off. That is a lot. What is that about? Whoa. I can't believe they committed that much time and money to DeAndre Jordan.

DeAndre was not good. No. He hasn't been for a couple years now. I mean, he's been in the decline for sure. But as we've heard, KD's guy is DeAndre Jordan. So now they've got to keep him around at least until Katie gets back out there. So they had to pay him. So that's interesting.

So while we're trying to process that, I have a question for you as we're trying to figure out, you know, what would happen with Kauai and how Kauai could shift the dynamics of the league again. Who would it be a bigger miss for? Because we were just talking about the Knicks setting up with these two max shots

and putting so much into the off season and trying to get these guys and then striking out. And Kevin made the point about why this could ultimately work out for them. But in the interim, in the short term, it's a miss. It's a blow for them. To the point where they have to put out a statement,

it's a blow. Similarly, the Los Angeles Clippers were really positioned. It may still be Isaac Lee, our producer, might still be to land Kauai Leonard. But they put a lot of eggs into this free agency off season where they're like, look, we're already a good team, right? Come play in

L.A. You could be with a better team than you'll get with the Lakers. We've got more flexibility. Our front office is making really smart decisions. Which would be the bigger miss, like if the Lakers don't sign Kawhi or if the clippers miss out? I think if the Lakers don't sign. I think the Clippers are closer in the NICS situation

where it's just like we're in one of the two top media markets in the country. Everybody wants to live here. Guys want to live here. We'll get one of these guys one of these years. And now they know they have a really smart front office. They seem to have figured out how to work this stuff. They can remain competitive and also keep cap flexibility.

So to me, the Clippers, if they miss out on Kauai, it sucks. They probably would like to have a do-over on the like, we're sending someone to watch Kauai. every single time he plays stories getting out. But they'll be fine, I think. Yeah, they're, again, like one of those teams that can build organically from the inside. They have one of the best young assets, best young players in league and Shag Kilgus Alexander. They have Montrez-Harrell, who is a sixth man in the year candidate alongside Lou Williams and Landry Shannon and Jerome Robbins.

And they have some good young players, and they retain flexibility moving forward. So the Clippers, no. I think for them, it's like Kauai Leonard or, you know, insert other Max Free Agent as a guy that would have just accelerated everything for I can still build slow. I think that makes sense from an academic standpoint. We're a Clippers fan. I would look at it and go, this was supposed to be the year

where we were going to sign somebody. You're fine. And it was going to be Kaui, but it's not Kaui. And it was going to be KD and it's not KD. And it was going to be Jimmy and it's not Jimmy. And oh, maybe Clay be interested. No, Clay's not interested. Like, yes, you have those slots and yes,

you're already a good team and you have cap flexibility. And it all makes sense from like a, like, let's just pull back from 30,000 feet. and it's going to be good. But just as a, like, still the chip on the shoulder. I've spent enough time with Isaac Lee to know there's still that chip on the shoulder, like little brother to the Lakers big brother aspect feeling where you go, when is it going to be our turn to sign the big guy?

2020, 2021. Am I wrong here? Turn your mic on. Tell me what you think. That's just sports fandom. Am I wrong? Do you not feel that way? I definitely feel that way.

I do feel like what makes it worse, like it doesn't matter about striking out. it matters if Kauai goes to the Lakers because that means it's the Yeah, but they already have Anthony Davis and LeBron James. Like did you think you were going to get to be the number one boy in In L.S? They want to be a role. Like they have LeBron and Anthony. You guys

are going to be the weird cousins for another couple years. You'd be fine. Well, at least we'd be good if we had Quayas. You are good. You have SGA and sham it and like that whole team is fine. It's fine. It's not great. It's not contending. You know, it's not on par. You should be happy that they didn't screw

this up. Like in some ways this Sunday is the best thing that could have happened to the Clippers because the Clippers didn't blow all their money just like the Nix did. Exactly. They didn't just like, oh, well, we didn't get this. Well, let's give Boogie four years. Two seconds ago, you were just doing the, you're either all in or you're all out. And the Clippers will be

they might be the best out team there is. Well, so, but they want to be in. He wants to be in for once. He doesn't want to be out. We can't always get what you want. All right, so there you go. Screw off. And by the way, like, they're out, but like, they're still, there were still in the playoffs last year. They still won a game against the Warriors

and Gilgis Alexander and some of these young guys are going to continue getting better. We won two games. Two games. Sorry. Two games. They won two games.

They won't take away the extra game from them. No, I could just feel like that would be somewhat of a disappointment, especially when. And you've mentioned that it's such a grab bag now where you could go, oh man, and by the way, I have been bitching about like how

bored I was by the Warriors' dominance for years. And now finally, we've got a grab bag of teams where you could go, I don't know who's go. For now, you're right, you're right. Because if Kauai, by the time you listen to this, if Kauai ends up with the Lakers and all of a sudden we're handicapping that they'll be the team to be next year.

But for now, I like to look at this whole thing and go, oh, man, what if the jazz? Maybe this is their year. Like the Nuggets who were a killer team last year that were, like, still young and up and coming. And then you've got the Sixers and the Bucks and all these other teams. Like, this is a really interesting period. And I think, like, being involved in that period,

were you a Clippers fan as opposed. to being, oh, we're just going to be... Even if the Lakers do get Kauai, I do think that that basically is an extinction level event when I think about it, but they don't have it, that would only make four NBA players on that team. So that would have to be,

that you have to rely on them either managing LeBron's minutes so that he's playing at peak condition throughout the playoffs, which is traditionally like how LeBron runs the season, but he didn't last year. Dave is staying healthy, and that chemistry experiment working out. So, I mean, I think that it's probably a short thing,

but I would feel a little less confident in that than I did about the Warriors with Durant. The Warriors with Durant felt like they were basically making a gladiator into something bulletproof already. You know what you mean? Like they had like the ultimate fighting machine and they made it better. The Lakers still feels like it's like, uh, like we just won the lottery three times? How did that happen?

You know, that sort of like touches on what I'm running about, you know, on the ringer for tomorrow. it's like this roster, they're not unbeatable like that Warriors team that had Andre, Andre Godala and Sean Livingston and all these other guys that were still like really, really good players. The Lakers have a lot of work to do. It's just the perception will be that, oh, it's inevitable that they win, but it's really not. Like, they still have a lot of work to do to find out the edges of that roster, find

guys who are actually quality guys that are deserving of minutes in the playoffs. And there's no guarantees that they're able to find those players. because it's slim pickings at this point. Like there's still some good free agent. Like Danny Green is still out there. There's still some good free agents. He's apparently waiting to find out what happens to Kauai. But you're not getting Danny Green if you're signing Kauai later because he's not signing for league minimum.

Yeah, it's a tough spot for them if they do go that way. But I think you're right. It's an extinction level event. If you can get him, you get him and you worry about the rest of it later. We just saw him single-handedly win the NBA finals. I think everybody would be really scared if you wound up in the Lakers. Do we want to go through some of the other teams? and talk about the bucks and the, yeah, keep going.

All right, so the bucks, the bucks bring back, Brooke Lopez, the bucks bring back Chris Middleton. The bucks do not bring back Malcolm Brogden. They end up in a sign and trade with Malcolm Brogden, where it feels a little bit like maybe they were trying to save a couple dollars on that one. They would have had a dip into the luxury tax on that. The Indiana Pacers end up with Malcolm Brogden, which you and I both like Malcolm Brogden quite a bit.

I love Malcolm Brogden. How do you feel about that? the buck's just not matching the offer sheet. It's a loss for them for sure. Malcolm Brogden, when you consider the pick and roll presence he is for that team, the shooting presence that he is, the versatile defender that he is,

and we talked earlier about like the Sixers fit in terms of unselfish guys who accept their roles. That's what Malcolm Brogden is, next to a superstar on Yannison and Takumpo. With that said, Milwaukee was able to retain Brooke Lopez and Chris Middleton, and they got back George Hill as well. So they still are one of the premier teams

in the Eastern Carlin. conference and in the entire NBA. But there's no doubt that Malcolm Brogden is a loss. And, like, him, adding him to this Indiana Paco's core, you know, they, they- Pacers are an interesting team. I know that we kind of like wrote them off. But you're getting Olatipo back. Without Oladipo, yes, they were underwater a little bit, but they still stayed in that

three, four, five mix for much. I know you're, like, blowing it off. I'm not blowing it off, but they're great, but the Pacers are a five-seat. Like, this is like, the East Coast is like. They were fun, like, throw them into the mix. They're one of those teams that you can make a case. Yeah, definitely. I mean, if Turner stays as good as he was last year and Sabonis gets better and Olobue Depot comes back healthy, Brogden's an upgrade, like, I think they're fine. They lose Bogdanovich who goes to the jazz, talk about the jazz in a second.

They lose Darren Collison, who decided out of nowhere to retire from the NBA. They get Brogden, they get Jeremy Lamb, and they get T.J. Warren, Lamb on a three for three years for 31.5. You know, we talked earlier in an earlier live show about Turner or Sabonis. Maybe they flip one of those guys. It's potential, because they do sort of complement each other in an odd way because, you know, Sabonis obviously a much more and better, a much more efficient and better offensive player. And then Turner, you're going to get better defensive numbers from them. But they have a number of pieces there where they could be like a speed bump for all these teams

that think they're going to cruise in Eastern Conference. Sure. I mean, the best possible version of the team that silently made themselves a lot better Now, in comparison to the way everything else unfolded over free agency, the team I think that is like a real threat is Utah. Yeah. They just apparently picked up Ed Davis as well. So they got Ed Davis. Utah's loaded. And take Bojohn Bogdanovich away from the Indiana Pacers.

Paces were hoping to bring him back. There's a lot of talk about maybe the Lakers targeting him. Now he goes to the Jazz. And the Jazz really went from a team that was already very good and like had a chance in the Western Conference to when you add Mike Connolly. as an upgrade over Ricky Ruby at both ends of the floor. And then you've got Bogdanovich who can be that offensive spark that they clearly needed last year. I think like when Donovan Mitchell's shot wasn't falling and you've got, you know, you've got Ingalls and Ingalls is great, but Ingalls can only do so much. Like you really need some offense there.

And I think offensively they really upgraded without losing much defensively. I love you, Tom, man. Like to me, like they're, if Kauai doesn't go to the lake, because they are arguably the finals favorites in the Western Conference. And like that might be ridiculous to say over a team of LeBron James and Anthony Davis. But when you consider the top end talent that they have and the amount of quality depth players that they have, Utah as a team that can play so many different styles. Yeah. They're dizzying. Four guys on that offense can all run off, run, pick, and roll or can spot up and play off ball.

And for Mitchell, Mike Conley alone would have made a significant positive impact on him, pushing Mitchell off ball, someone who can create shock. for him as a cutter, as a spot-up shooter. Never mind the fact that Conley can also play off ball too, off of Mitchell. And now you had Bogdanovich to that, a backup room protector and Ed Davis as well. Yeah, they got deep. They are a deep, deep team. Engels with Star Power, too. Yeah.

Yeah, I like the Jazz. Quinn Snyder, like, he must be just like up all night, thinking of ideas, like how to integrate this offense, all these personnel together. It's going to be fun to watch that team this season. Jazz go to the front of the league pass. list. What about some teams that we're not sure about

where does this leave the Boston Celtics? They go and they get Kemba to replace Kyrie, but they also lose Al Horford. They don't really have a big right now.

They're going to have to play a lot of small lineups. I think that they, you know, they had also sort of set themselves up for this off season and this draft

where they had those four picks that they thought maybe they could turn into somebody. A lot of people thought that they're going to be in on the 80 sweepstakes. They miss out on that.

And now all of a sudden it's sort of like reboot on the fly, but a lot of other teams it feels like have overtaken them. Yeah, with Boston, boy, it's going to be really, really interesting to see which direction they turn to find a big. Like, we just got done talking about Philadelphia size, Indiana. They don't need to trade Sabonis or Turner. They can have that too big lineup.

Like, that might be the way you have to play to win in the Eastern Conference. Janus and the Bucks with Broke Lopez, that is another big team. You need size. small ball is a lie. It's a myth that has been for a long time. And we know that now with the way teams are building

that are on the rise and in the NBA. Something about the Boston recent history though makes me feel incredibly confident that they'll just find a scrap heap guy that they turn into. Robin Lopez on the room mid-level. Yeah, I mean, and then like all of a sudden,

I mean, I know that the Baines got traded, but like I feel like they either, whether it's Robert Williams or whoever, I know that guy can't like show up to lunch on time, but like they will find someone to take up minutes. they will not have Al Horford impact, but I think that Boston's going to be fine. It's going to kind of be like a throwback to the Boston,

the Isaiah Thomas era Boston. You wrote about this today. I mean, Kemba is not unlike, it's closer to Thomas than it is Kyrie, right? Horford enhanced Isaiah Thomas in so many ways, though. Like, Horford's playmaking ability, his screening, his shooting ability. Horford is what really energized Isaiah Thomas

on the offensive end of the floor. And then on defense, obviously Horford is a stud, especially he was in his prime just a couple years ago. still very good now. So for Boston, it's like, either you change the way the big man position is on your roster, you have more of a rim-running presence, which is interesting because, you know, back when I first started writing, I covered the Celtics exclusively, Brad Stevens said that that's the type of offense he wants, is a rim-running five.

And maybe it doesn't matter what he wants. It's about what the front office puts on the table for him to work with. But Brad himself has said that he prefers a rim-running five, a lob guy. So maybe Robert Williams will be that for him. I don't trust that Robert Williams can stay on the floor for more than 1520. Could they go for Capella? It would be difficult. You would have to trade Marcus Smart in a trade.

And I'm not so sure for Houston that would make total sense either because they're one of the losers in this. Houston's a loser mistakes as well. They were supposed to be one of the teams going for a silent trade for them. If you were Elton, would you rather get Josh Richardson or Eric Gordon? Richardson. Yeah. Yeah, pretty easily. So I guess it's, I guess it's, the Houston just didn't have the package, but I guess they couldn't clear the space.

Or it's a better contract. He's a more versatile player. He's younger. Or Butler just didn't want Houston. Yeah, that's possible too. I mean, that was the wildest thing about the Butler thing is that the wildest element to this Butler story was the waves of certainty about different destinations. Yeah. It was like Houston, Houston, Houston, he's from Houston.

He wants to go play with Chris Paul and James Harden. Houston's working really hard to clear cap space. and, you know, they'll do a sign and trade with the Sixers, or they'll trade Tucker, Capella, and Gordon individually to make the room, and they'll just force the hand. And then we woke up today, and it was Miami, and by the end of the day, it was Miami. So it's pretty interesting.

And just this whole wrinkle of not offering the five years and offering, it sounds like they didn't even offer them a deal, maybe. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure, like, how much do you buy the, hey, they never wanted them, they were going to move on anyway? No, I know. But, like, it seemed like Jimmy Butler, had been pretty clear about wanting to be a max player. And the Sixers, like, could have shown him that appreciation.

Could have. That's to bring it all the way back to Butler, but I was just thinking about how, yeah, Houston's a loser in this situation. The Charlotte Hornets. Charlotte Hornets fall into the loser category. I mean, three years and $58 million for Terry Rozier, according to Shams, guaranteed.

Initially, when that deal came down, KOC and I looked at each other, and you were like, that back end can't be guaranteed. and evidently as reported currently it is, which feels like what the hell are the Charlotte Hornets doing? Oh, boy. I mean, that's been the question for them this whole decade, hasn't it?

Like with the contracts that they've handed out, Nick Batum being one of the big ones after he had a good season, but not a season worth $25 million annually. And with Rozier, look, like, I like Rosier. He's a solid player, but 20 million annually for him feels like a lot. It's a lot, right? It would be one thing if it would be one thing if it's a real thing. a one or two-year deal. But three years, man, like, that's a long time to commit to Rozier

when he's not proven a lot over the full duration of a season with the Celtics, which has been a pretty good circumstances for him, you know, as a young player coming in with Brad Stevens. Like, Roseer in the draft, I didn't love him as a prospect because I worried about his decision-making, his at-room finishing, and his shooting ability. With Boston, he was in a team in a situation should have been good for those qualities, for his development. It hasn't happen for him. And now with Charlotte, where he's going to be able to chuck up shots, like, it could be disastrous. But maybe for Charlotte, that's not the worst thing in the world. If you want to lose games, tank, get high draft picks and rebuild again.

Charlotte, like, the way that they've got... The problem is is that they don't hit on their draft picks. They just don't hit on their draft picks. And also, by the way, the contracts that they've headed out, I mean, Terry Rozier is just another in a long line of what kind of contract are you paying here? Because you've got, just next year alone, MKG at 13 million. Cody Zell at 14 and change. Marvin Williams at 15. Mismac Bianbo at 17. We can't be like New York's brilliant because they're

setting themselves up for 2021 and they kill Charlotte when their contracts are all coming off the books. Now New York's drafted better than Charlotte, but Charlotte is the reason I'm not a GM because like everybody Charlotte picks him like yeah. Love Malik Monk. Yeah. Love Miles Bridges' game. I loved MKG.

I mean I loved Nick Batum too. They're paying Nick Batum 255 next year. And I get what you're saying. about those contracts eventually coming off. But the same guy, like, before they could come off, they first had to get signed to them. And the same guys are going to, like, go and figure out, plot their course for the next couple of years. I mean, like, I have no faith in exactly what you said? For how long now have you looked at the Hornets and gone, what the hell are the Hornets doing?

And I just don't have much faith that all of a sudden they're going to figure it out. You know, I think you look at certain teams in the league, like when they either lose a guy or there's a guy that moves teams, some teams are able to take advantage of that. Charlotton in this case, I don't think they did. And Razir, he's a solid player, an okay guy to bet on, but not for the value. To me, one of the more interesting additions of the day was Gorin Dragrich, going to the Dallas Mavericks. They were able to benefit from that trade, adding a guy who was an expiring $19 million salary. And I think he's going to be able to alleviate some of the pressure off of Luca Dauncher this coming season.

I think it's going to be interesting to see Luca coexisting with another ball. handler on that on that team, which could be a good thing for his development. So for Dallas, like, this is good for Luca to have another ball handler in Drodrich. And I think for for Luca long term, we're going to see how it might look with him coexisting with another ball handler, which is the ideal fit. It can't just be all Luca for James Hardin style. Yeah. He needs another guy.

So this is a good way to start training that over time. A couple more moves and then we'll wrap it up because you got it right and I got a right and you've got 47 other things to do. You've got to edit me. Phoenix Suns, Ricky Rubio, three years, $51 million. Feel bad for Rubio. Keep in mind that you're on the Heat Check podcast,

and we generally do not disparage Rick Rubio on this. Go ahead and make your case against it. You hate it. I don't hate it. It's just for Phoenix. It just feels like you're settling. I think with Devin Booker, it's a good thing that you have another ball handler

who can push Booker off ball. Because now people are going to stop complaining about him being a ball hog. Booker is a guy who in college and in high school thrived off the ball. As a spot-up shooter going off screens and handoffs, you're going to see more of that with Rubio. With that said, Booker's still a guy who has been somebody

who has become potent on the ball, and Rubio is not somebody who effectively spaces the floor. Rubio has declined in the defensive end of the floor. So to me, it feels like this is Phoenix doing the utter opposite of what we talked about with a team like the Knicks just signing a two-year deal, some of these other teams, just committing a lot of money and a lot of years to Rubio

where, like, he's not the guy. to me that you want to build around with Booker long term. He's stabilizing. I think he'll make those younger players better. I feel bad because he's like one of my favorite. He is one of my favorite players. I love watching him play. I would love to have seen him in a

more potentially winning situation. A lot of people expected him to go to Indiana. Yeah. And it looks like Indiana got Brogden fumes and went for it. Brogden's a better player for sure. Portland gives... But I would have loved to have seen Ricky in Dallas. You know what I mean? Or Ricky in...

I don't know. I mean, to take your pick Miami. I would have loved to see him play for one of the LA teams. It just would have been cool to see him in playing more playoff basketball. Not going to do that in Phoenix. Godspeed to Rick Rubio. In Portland, they give Dame Lillard the Supermax about extension. They bring back Rodney Hood for two years and 16. Orlando Magic really liked making the postseason. They bring back Terrence Ross, Vucevich.

They sign Amino. Still probably a back end of the Eastern Conference team. Those teams feel very... I don't, obviously, Portland's way better than Orlando. I hope Portland doesn't regret doing what they're doing here. By like, by like doubling down their depth here. I mean, I think that they probably see an opening. They got to the conference finals,

although I think that that was a little bit of a fluke in seating. But, you know, I mean, like, they are, they are a move away from being a really serious final contender. I just don't know that the moves were Hood and Baysmore. This is, I feel like, what do you think? I was just going to say something else. Mark Stein also reported that Mavericks are getting Kelly a Lillard. and Derek Jones as part of the

Jimmy Butler sign of trade Okay Well Everybody's Everybody's clear in decks The heater Doing heat things

The Mavericks are acquiring more people The Orlando Magic really like Their team And the New Orleans Pelicans will end On this one

New Orleans Pelicans Steel JJ Redick Ringer podcast Her favorite And former Sixer Away for two years In 26.5

It's been a fun Like turnaround for New Orleans and a quick one, like really rapidly went from last year where even with Anthony Davis, we pretty much all felt like they weren't going anywhere and then Anthony Davis once out and they were a tough watch.

And now they have rebooted and immediately moved to the top of my league pass rankings and just feel like they're going to be a really fun team. But beyond that, as you mentioned, David Griffin is pulling levers here and it doesn't feel like he's made a mistake yet. I mean, all of these feel right and good and they're set up for the future.

But in the interim, they could be a really interesting team. I love what they're doing, man. I think David Griffin, like, he's not going to win executive the year because rebuilding teams, general managers never do. But with that said, like, he should be in the conversation for it. It's not just Zion here. They just didn't get lucky with that. It was the A.D. trade and everything that followed.

You consider their young core, like, this is a team Alvin Gentry is going to have them playing fasts with multiple ball handlers, but they needed shooting. So you get one of the greatest shooters ever in JJ Redick. The Pelicans, if Zion Williamson is good as a rookie, which I think he will be, they're going to be a team that's in the conversation to make the seven or eight seed in the Wests. I don't think they'll make it. I think they'll be a team that's good all year, but just ends up falling a little short.

But they're going to be right there. Also, JJ has stepped into the situation before. So while it's like a little bit odd because a lot of what we had always understood about JJ was that he just really wanted to stay in the Northeast and be near where his kids were going to school. stuff like in Brooklyn. I think he did, ultimately. Yeah. I thought that, I think that this will not be an unfamiliar situation to go in and be the safe

pair of hands in a young locker room of emerging stars. Yeah, he's exactly what he did with the Sixers. He's legitimized the Sixers in some ways. And we mentioned this earlier, he's never missed the playoffs before. So you never know. I mean, it's a team that's on the common. It's a young team, but JJ's been in good spots before. All right, you're going to go right.

Thank you to Kevin O'Connor. Thank you to Isaac Lee for. Producing this, thank you to Chris Ryan for jumping on with us. Thank you to all of you for listening and watching us on YouTube. NBA Free Agency is underway, gang. There's still more to happen. The mismatch is going to be coming at you this week with Kevin O'Connor and Chris Werner. We've got Corner 3.

We've got group chat. We've got a ton of content on the ringer.com that you don't want to miss. Summer League is coming at you. The NBA never stops. It's been fun. Thanks for listening, gang. Bye, guys.