The Ringer NBA Show - Free Agency Frenzy: Dame Waived, Turner to the Bucks, and LeBron’s Unhappy? | Real Ones

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Logan and Raja are back with the free agency edition of Real Ones. Myles Turner is officially headed to the Bucks, and Damian Lillard has been waived by the team. What’s the future for Dame? The Nuggets traded Michael Porter Jr. to Brooklyn for Cam Johnson and a 2032 first-round pick. They also brought back Bruce Brown, who helped them win a championship in 2023. Have the Nuggets jumped back into contender status? The Hawks made a ton of moves as well. Have they shot up in the Eastern Conference hierarchy? Word on the street is that LeBron isn't happy that the Lakers aren't building around him. Is this a sign that the Lakers have officially shifted their focus to Luka? Plus, a deep mailbag! (0:00): Open w/ Logan Murdock (1:00): Show start (1:46): Bucks waive Dame Lillard (9:22): Denver Nuggets Talk (14:52): Atlanta Hawks check-in (19:21): Free agency moves by the Lakers + Lebron’s next moves (32:45): Mailbag Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Audio Producer: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Logan Murdoch here for another edition of Real Ones, me and Rajabelle, talk all things for agency. We get into the very fluid situation that's going on in Milwaukee. Carmelo Anthony said there's no loyalty in sports. And there's definitely no loyalty for Dame Willard in Milwaukee because they waived and stretched his contract to make a deal to get Miles Turner. We get into all of the ramifications of that. LeBron's legacy in Los Angeles.

We talk about what's going to happen with. Kaminga. Then we get into a great mailbag discussion with the Bull Cliff where we answer your questions about discourse in the modern NBA. And who is going to be remembered as a great player in 2040? Is it Kyrie going to be thought of as the greatest player of all time? Is LaMello going to be thought of as the greatest player of all time? Maybe. We'll see. We've discussed all of that. But for the moment, let's get to the intro music. Cliff played a theme. It's popping. Real ones.

Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell, there. The free agency edition of Ruins is upon us. I got the sniffle-sniffs. Rogers is apparently 100% healthy. But we're going to do it anyway. Are you good, Roger, before we get to the deals? I mean, you know, parenthood is like playing an NBA season. Like, the last time you're 100% healthy is the day before they're bored.

So, like, I'm not 100% healthy, but I'm as close as I'm getting. Okay. For 18 years, it's, you know, about the highest, you're going to be like 92% right is that 92 93 yeah something like that okay okay well um you know I don't know I have a segue for this we're gonna go right into

right before this program started the um Milwaukee bucks agreed to a four year $107 million deal with the with Miles Turner and that's cool right yeah but then the next tweet comes out that they are stretching and waving Damian Lillard who

tour as Achilles tendent during the postseason. And I think we're going to get to all the other deals that we like and that we don't like and see in the minute. But like this one is like there, we're going to talk about in real time. And I have a lot of different emotions about this. One, this is the reality of the new apron NBA, right?

Quick pivots. The Milwaukee Bucks have been trying to build a team around Janus on the fly, which was further complicated with Damien Lillard, which is one of the reasons why I think the NBA world thought that Janus was going to leave at a point in time of this preliminary reporting right now, without much context that Yonis is unhappy with this move. That came from Chris Haynes, but we don't know why or what that's going to lead to necessarily. But this seems like an upgrade in some respects, right? because you have a guy like Miles Turner who you essentially swap for because

Brooke Lopez is gone. You got Bobby Ford is to get some front court depth. But on the other hand, I think your lead guard next year, as of right now, because you know, Frasdise is a very fluid situation at the moment. But your lead guard right now is Kevin Porter Jr. With all the moving parts right now, what is your immediate reaction to the deal? I was really excited for the Miles Turner pickup. I thought, you know, I thought that was a really, really good get.

You know, obviously you're losing Brooke Lopez. I thought, I thought Miles Turner. Now, this is, like, I'm not digging into, like, how much money he got or anything like that. I'm just talking about the pairing and what that makes you, especially when you're in an Eastern Conference, when you're looking around, we've said it before, and you're looking at the landscape of it. And you got the, you know, Jason Tatum, not available next year. You know, the Halliburton and the Pacers, even if, even if Miles Turner were still there. not going to be what they're supposed to be. So you have to be looking around when you have one of the best,

if not the best player in the East thinking, how can we get to striking distance? Because it's within reach, right? So I think Miles Turner, you know, the addition of another big that can stretch the floor and play alongside Janus is a good move. Dame, I don't know how, you know, like he wasn't going to be available to them this year.

Like I, no, I don't really know how to feel about that one, guess if I'm being honest. This isn't going to be great podcast. And I'm a Dame fan. It would be much nicer if they had Dane, but he wasn't going to be available to you next year anyway. And I don't know how many vehicles they had to get into that Miles Turner deal, like in terms of pieces that they could move. Does Indiana do a sign and trade? Like, I don't know how that works. So something was going to have to give. And now it becomes like if they, I don't know what their books look like and what they have left, but you do need a veteran tie it all together kind of PG. You're going to need to try to add that in the rest of free agency.

Well, they just signed Gary Harris. This is also fluid as well. They just signed Gary Harris to a two-year deal. He's a good player, but he's not going to replace Dame, which I guess with the roster construction, you can't really replace Dave. So what's another thing that's, it's a weird end to the Dame Lillard era in Milwaukee, right? Because, you know, you, he gets traded after all these years, will he, won't he out of Portland. Finally, he's traded to Milwaukee, has that monster contract. And it kind of ends with no titles, what you had, the first round exit a year ago.

I think the first round exit again this year, like, now he goes into the situation where like, it's a weird ending to a career befitting of a future Hall of Fame, right? And now, like, we don't know what's going to happen. He has this really tough road back to recovery. Does he come back on a mid-level somewhere? Like, I just don't know what the future of Dame Lillard holds in the NBA. And it's a weird end to a chapter of his career as he's trying to get a championship. The league is tough now.

And it's even more tough with his apron, right? Because you've got to pivot and you've got to make some really rash decisions at a given moment to help your team on a year-by-year basis. And that's what the NBA wanted with this hard cap. but it's really hitting teams like the Milwaukee bus who bucks don't really have much assets. Luckily didn't give up any picks for it to make this move, but then you have to stretch a guy like Damien Lurlid and you're going to have $20 million on your books for the, I think the next five years to pay off that $113 million a day. It's a lot of moving parts, but this is the new modern NBA, Roger.

Yeah, I mean, and it is unfortunate that this chapter, if you will, kind of has ended like this for Dane. But if I could just play the other side of it and look for a silver line in it, if you're able to rehab this because, you know, Achilles rehabs come a long way, but you are at an advanced stage in your career. So if you're able to kind of navigate this and come back in a way that it allows you to continue to be a viable piece in a winning situation, if you're a Dame fan and legacy wise for Dame, it could work out all right because you ask

like, what does he come back and play on? At that point, he can play on whatever he wants to play on. He can look for fit. He can look for who needs a piece that is like right at the precipice of getting over the hump and he controls it. It's not who will trade for him or who wants to, you know, it'll be, hey, if you have the space for me, I can decide what I'm willing to play for and I'll come in there and hunt for this championship.

So in a weird way, you know, just silver lining to it might be if he comes back and he's healthy and he rehabs, he might be able to plug in and catch on with somebody where he can get that chip ultimately. Yeah, it's going to be a lot of soul surgeon for him. And it's weird because you obviously have to have that when you have a big sense of rehab on an Achilles like that, but he's going to have to figure out his mind to a specific role change. It's going to be vastly different than the one that he

had when he tore his Achilles. So on one hand, he's going to have to rehab, but also he's going to have to figure out how do I become, I don't know, his dame coming off the bench when he comes back? Like, I just don't know what the NBA is looking like in the adjustment period. I mean, there was an adjustment, even him playing alongside Janus in the role that that had, right? It was also fit.

Very fair. Also figuring out a new landscape when you're not the guy. So it's going to be not only a tough rehab process, but tough changing of the mind and how you see the game. So interesting, that's fluid. We'll see what Janus thinks. I'm sure by the end of this pod, Cliff will show us something that Janus said or maybe some innu window. But let's get on to some other moves.

One of the things that I've liked, Brazzan, there was a survey that the entrance survey that the ringer put out today or yesterday that I was a part of with Michael Pina, Howard motherfucking Beck, and a host of our ringer NBA colleagues. And one of the questions was who would challenge the Oklahoma City Thunder next season? And there was a lot of Rockets talk, which we'll get to in a second. One of the teams that I picked, and I forget a couple other people picked, was Denver night. And just for the simple fact that they have Yokic and that they were the only team that took this, this Thunder team to seven games. And this NBA is all about matchups as opposed to talent now. But they swap Michael Porter Jr.

And an unprotected first round pick at the Brooklyn next for Cam Johnson. And they re-signed Free Agent Bruce Brown to a one-year deal. I kind of like what the nuggets are doing right now, right? They didn't give a Christian Brown. and they have Bruce Brown in the mix. They get a little bit more in depth. And Michael Porter Jr. was great, but he was always up and down. Cam Johnson makes $18 million less.

So they get their books in order than Nuggets do. And they're still competing for a title. And I think they have a serviceable team so far around Yonka's going into the next season. Yeah, they maneuvered well. I would agree with that. In terms of getting better, I mean, Bruce Brown is going to help you with your depth, right? Like that's going to happen. but you know it's not always about that to your point it's it's we don't lose much and we we can trim a lot

in the process uh so from that regard i'm fine i would agree with you that they're going to be one of the teams i don't know that they'd be my favorite to challenge okay c necessarily but you are right anytime you have yokech and the way that okayc struggled with with guarding him uh in that series they have to be considered right um there's there's still work to be done there i think like i don't think that's, you know, what they're going to look like is finished, like, from a coaching perspective, from a team perspective. But like, so the jury would be out, but I'm not mad at what they're doing at all. That 30, that 32 first round pick is probably is a tough bill of swallow, though. I will say that. I mean, I know the nets are just stockpiling

picks. But by that time, Yokits isn't going to be on the team unless he, like, has like a LeBron type surge in the next seven years. But they're, they're going to want to need that pick. So it's tough, but they're going all in on championships right now. And this is the window to do it, right? Like, you have one guy. That's a tough thing, but it's always, it's always, like, it's always tough and everybody wants to, everybody wants to protect the pick. Like, if you can protect it and have them and maximize your window, I mean, we're living in pie in the sky, having my cake and eating it two world. It just doesn't always work out like that. And so, you know, when you have Yokic, not unlike LeBron, or any of these guys that, that are, that are premiered,

players in this league, you have to be doing what you can within their window of time to try to chase these things. And if it means giving up one down the road, like maybe there's an avenue to recouping that in some way, shape, or form before that. You know what I mean? But like, we've got to take the swings necessary. Does this keep the ship afloat? Like, are you thinking, like, what do the, what do the nuggets have to do to stay in contention even more? What more do you want to see in this in this free agency from what do they need because i think they have the depth i think if they get a couple more pieces just around the margins i think they're pretty much fine the new mb a depth and and and competitive depth is a real it's a real thing right especially in that western

conference wing defensive pieces three and d if you will guys they can knock down a jump shot but really get up and guard and then competitive depth not just hey we can throw this guy out there but like real pieces coming off your bench that can play so if you can find and pick those up and you know i don't know how many i don't know what their situation is financially right now so i don't know how much money they have to spend so on and so forth but that was that would be all that i think that they're missing for an opportunity with a piece like yokic and and what they already have in place to be to be viable and then it's just about you know coach putting them in the position like if it if that's if that's going to work if we're going to be kind of this we still have our mojo

offensively the way they've had in the past between you know some of their pieces if that still exists, I think you're fine. What do you get when you swap a Cam Johnson for Michael Porter Jr.? I like Michael Porter, but he was basically just a spot shooter in that. Like, he's just catching shoot, right? Run. I mean, he's got wing defensive ability and he's long, and I guess I might undersell that a little bit. The bottom line is when you're on a roster, it doesn't matter what you do offensively or don't do offensively or what your ceiling is offensively. When you play with Yokic, Jamal Murray, Gordon, when you're in that mix, like, you're there to do a job, right?

And that job is going to be- I like it for the consistency, bro. Like, I do like it for the sense that Michael Porter Jr. could be great. He could be like, oh, yo, is this the next, is this Costco KD? Or sometimes it's like he disappears, right? And I think you need a steadier force around this Yolkis team when you do have the lack of depth. You do need guys that you can count on. And I think Cam Johnson is a steadier guy that you could count on.

Maybe he's not averaging 25 a game. He doesn't have those highs, but he's not getting, you're not disappearing. I'll take your word on it. I mean, listen, some of this, again, I mean, we come on here and we talk basketball, but if I'm going to sit here and tell you I watched all of Cam Johnson's games this year, I know his entire body of work for Brooklyn. I'd be lying to you. I'm not in a habit of doing that.

what I'm saying. So, like, if I have to take your word for that. All right, man, let's talk about another team that I have enjoyed what they've done this offseason. The Atlanta Hawks, who have traded for Christop's Borges and also got to kill Alexander Walker. I think that they have a chance to be the number two seed in the Eastern Conference, which is a weird turn of events considering what we've said about the fit under Tray Young and

just being Trey Young and have they hit a ceiling with Trey Young? And the Atlanta Hawks are like, nah, we're going to stick with him and we're going to put pieces around him finally. So like, I like it for them, even if it's for a one year deal and see what we got. But this seems like a good offseason for the Atlanta Hawks right now with the cap space that they have used and the players that they have used it on. So I think I got to give them a day. They did a good job. Yeah, I like with the Hawksdale. I mean, it started with Chris Staps for sure. I like Nikiel Alexander Walker. Like I, you know, again, you're talking about guy who can make a shot and looked like he had more than make a shot capability in the playoffs, but also we'll sit down and lock up. You already have

some formidable pieces defensively there with Dyson Daniels. Like that gives you some elite backcourt slash wing defensive prowess. You know, they also got Luke Conard. I saw him pick up who who's shoots the ball. You could space the floor, 39 or 40 percent career three-point shooter. Again, and this is what I said when the Christaps thing happened for them. So I would agree with you. When I said when Chris Staps happened, I'm like, look, you're looking at yourself in the Eastern Conference now with the new landscape of it, with everything that's in flux. And if you're within striking distance, you've got to see how close you can get. Like, you know, when you have and Trey would fall into that category for me. And I know I've been at times, you know, curious slash

skeptical of like what that's the smaller guard with that style of play can represent, you know, on a championship winning team. I'm not saying it can't, but you got to get the recipe right around it. But he would fall into the level of player that if I had him on my team with all of the things that he can do and I had a little nucleus around him. I'm sitting in that Eastern Conference. I'm like, yo, let's take a, let's take a couple swings at that. Not to mention the pick that they fleeced out of like the pick next year, right? Like that they got in around the draft, what that could potentially be, I like what they've done this all season. New Orleans is another case altogether.

Traited away things like that. We don't got to rehash that. But damn, I wanted to make it positive, but what the hell are the New Orleans Policans doing right now? They have no plan whatsoever. They're just giving bags out. They're just, they're willing, they're willing in dealing and the way that they don't know what the hell they're doing.

They're just, oh, here, here, I'll take this piece. I think this works, maybe. I think there's a, Roger, there are a concept of a plan that are like, they're like the homie, you know him, so it's not a stranger. He pulls up to your crib and he's like, yo, dog, hop in. We're going to X, Y, and Z. And you look in the back and ain't no bags packed. There's not, you're like, no, I'm good.

I'm not going with you, bro. I'm good. There's no plan here. There's no plan. No, no. Why are we in street for it right now? You said we were going to Atlanta. Why are we going?

What the hell? No. Not getting in, dog. Going back to the college. Do, do, do, let me out. Oh, my God. Jeez, that also got me thinking about the Kings, too, who are just fucking. They have interest in Russell Westbrook right now.

They seem to be headed in the right direction, is what I will say to that. No, they won't. They're talking also about trading Zach Levine. Or, uh, they, what do you like to say? The Kang's going to cane? Is that what you? Is that your thing? The Cangs are going to Cang.

They're talking about also moving Malik Munk. Remember like the Beam area? It was so much fun, right? When even after they traded Tyrese Halliburton, then they had, you know, they had the beam team. They had some bonus. They had guys. They had excitement.

They had Malik Munk making everybody excited in the building. They had the clutch player of the year, Dierre and Fox. They had some bonus. They had, they just, it's just, now. they traded that. Steph, Steph didn't do, it wasn't Steph that ruined him.

It was Vivekronad Debe that ruined him. And now all of a sudden, they don't have the coach of the year anymore. That Christy is the coach. There's one of the other things, though, that I want to talk to you about. Let's talk LeBron, man. And talk about the Lakers as a whole

staff record label the motherfucking crew because the Houston Rockets got Dorian Finney Smith on a nice deal. And, you know, which really helps out the Rockets I think they're going to be a really formidable team. They're probably a top three team right now in the Western Conference if I had to guess. But on the other side of that is the Los Angeles Lakers who, even with new ownership, still have to have the same old drama-filled discussions.

On the eve of Free Agency, LeBron James, he picks up his option, which seems great in theory. And then Rich Paul tells everyone in sight. that LeBron isn't happy with the direction of the franchise. And I'm just not necessarily not happy, but he's not happy with the prospect. If you read between the tea leaves, that shit isn't running through him and they're not building around him anymore, right?

So Rich Paul tells the athletic and ESPN, LeBron knows the Lakers are building for the future. And he also wants to compete for championships. We understand the difficulty in winning now while preparing for the future. We do want to evaluate what's best for LeBron at this stage of his life and career. He wants to make every season he has left count. The Lakers understand that. They're

supportive of that and what's best for him. We're very appreciative of the partnership that we've had for eight years with Jeannie and Rob and considered the Lakers a critical part of his career. Now, this is one of those statements where they say everything and you got to read what they're actually saying, which is, we want to win a title right now. We want to do it. Obviously, that is the Lakers goal. obviously that's what they want to do, right? But it's not going through LeBron anymore. And I feel like he's, him and his team are kind of flailing right now

to find some sort of leverage elsewhere because they want to say, yeah, we'll leave to go chase a championship. And the Lakers are like, cool, bet. You know, we want to win a championship. Yeah, so do we. Well, you know, we want to, you know, figure things out.

Yeah, so do we. But we're going to do it around this other dude right now. When you look at what the Lakers situation is right now where it feels like this man. manufactured controversy happens when LeBron, but it doesn't hit the same. When you see that, is it hilarious to you? Is it informative? How do you feel when you see, you know, these LeBron leaks that I don't hit the same? I think the word I'd use to describe it would be inevitable. It was always coming to this when a player like LeBron, who has been the

driving force, you know, on any team he's ever been on and been the reason why, you know, teams are held to the fire in some regards in terms of keeping a championship viable level team built around him because of the way he moves in, in free agency and contractually. Like, he's just used to that. And when you go out and get Luca, you've clearly, you know, started the plan of the baton pass. Like, not in the AD way where you're wondering whether AD will ever take it and be that level player. But in the way like, no, dude, he's here now. We got him. There's no question. And so we're going to like manage the two of you together and try to operate this window. But in the not so distant future, this is going to be built around Luca. And so this

was always coming, right? Because that's a very, very difficult thing to do unless that roster's already in place. Like it's a very difficult thing to do. And the roster isn't, it's not in place right now. How many vehicles they have to go out and complement these two in the way they need to be complimented? I don't know. But I know that the Lakers priorities are going to have to be, you know, Luca whenever that's up. And then protecting the flexibility that they have to make sure that that window is securely open around him. It's also funny to see this leak or these comments that are vague in words, but also very direct in spirit from the LeBron James. Because Luca has an extension, I think it was, I believe it's coming up August 2nd that he needs to decide on.

And the Lakers are doing everything in their power to be like, yo, man, we will give you everything that you want. And we will give you and we will do whatever you need for whatever you need from us. It's all good, Luca. Don't even trip. It's good. Oh, so he's up this summer. I mean, he can, he can opt. He can sign a, he can sign a new extension.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it could be a short-term one just so he can get the recoup all the money that Nico Harrison took from him. when he traded him. Nico Harrison always getting strays. But it's a new world order. You're the only one, bro. You're a great friend. Just go listen to the files, bro.

I abstain from all that. I don't get into that. Bro, don't get into that, Nico. The Lakers and LeBron both have reputations to uphold in this situation, right? LeBron really doesn't want to leave Los Angeles. And he's not going to leave Los Angeles. But he wants to feel good about, you know, just do right by me, I guess, in a certain way. And the Lakers are saying, well, you know, doing right by you is much different, was much different a year ago than it is right now.

And they're saying, yeah, just chill out for a second. We'll take care of you because on their end, they are a franchise that purports itself on taking care of stars. And they're in a bit of a transitional period, but they still have to do that while in a perfect world. It would be like, yo, LeBron, can you take this 20 meal real quick? And so we can round out this roster. But he's not going to take any less to the max. What are we're going to say? Yeah, but well, in fairness, they were a franchise that pride prided themselves on taking

scare of stars. We don't really know how new ownership, right? Like, you don't know what they're. Or with the new apron era, if you can actually do that, right? Like you're seeing that with Dame in Milwaukee, right? And so it's going to be a tough balance for them to do so. LeBron is just wants to, he's using old tactics for a new environment and that tends to happen when you're, you know, older in the league. So it's interesting, right? Because I talk about older players

and them having to kind of reinvent themselves as players to kind of, to kind of gracefully, um, approach the end of their career in a way where they can still be competitive and part of a winning culture and all of that because it's rare that like the number one guy at 41 is the number one guy on a championship team. That doesn't happen, right? So you got to kind of reinvent yourself as a player so that you can fit around pieces. And I think LeBron actually did an admirable job of kind of letting that happen with Luca this year, right? Like kind of, hey, dude, this is going to be yours. I'll figure out how to play around that. It also requires, it's going to require him to do that off the floor. In terms of, in terms of trying to move the chess pieces on the board within the organization to

to an area that is more desirable for him. Like when you have to cede some of that too. So it's not just like the physical. It's both of those things. You have to be willing to take a step back and kind of reinvent the way you play and reinvent the way you move and expect an organization to move around you.

Yeah, which is like a hard thing to do when you're the greatest player of all time. And everything has been catered to you, right? Like it's like asking Michael Jordan to like take a pay cut towards the back, even though he kind of did with the Wizards. But you know what I'm saying? I'm talking about like at the end of his bulls run

where he's playing great basketball, maybe not good enough basketball to help you win a championship as the number one guy, but you're telling LeBron James to take a role shift, which is, we said this around at the trade. That's just going to be a hard thing to ask him because he still thinks,

oh, I'm LeBron James. I can still do this. I'm fine. Yeah, it's one of those things. It's almost like be careful what you wish for, right? If you're LeBron, in an effort to chase that championship and get the type of player that you, you think you needed a la lucca to help you do that you've lost the marquee and and so you've lost

you've lost the ability to do the things and so now you are in that situation that you're describing Logan which is if I got a pick while every other time 99.9% of the time it's always been when there's a choice we're choosing LeBron no brainer yeah well in your effort to get over the hump to the championship you lost that and also he's doing it in an environment where like Rob Polinka, who I guess reportedly is now, the Lakers are only taking two-year contracts because they're still trying to get their book straight. And they want to have max salaries for, max salary slots for 20, 27. And I don't know necessarily like if that's going to, in the new NBA era, if that approach is going to work. You're talking about ancient approaches to a modern time.

I just, I don't know how that's going to work in two years. But that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to get their books back together. And they're not being as aggressive in the free. agency market, but that's also coming at a time with new ownership, which means by definition, like everybody's auditioning right now, including Rob Polinka, where there's so many different moving parts in this organization and LeBron is just like the cherry on top of that. I don't know what's going to happen in the next few weeks for that because Lucas 26 years old, he wants to

have a contending title. And I see this even, we can talk about my backyard in a second, but you're seeing a team that is saying they want to win a championship. And then you see all these other moving parts. You see Miles Turner's going here, right? Brooke Lopez is going to the Clippers when you need a front court guy.

And your fan base is like, well, what the hell are we doing right now? Like, how are we not aggressive in this aggressive for agency market to get our players? So there's so many things moving. parts within the Lakers orbit right now that it's always interesting. Yeah, I mean, the brand itself is interesting. And I should say the jury's out on whether or not LeBron can still do it.

Because who knows? Maybe at the end of the day, he's still able to pull off the LeBron kind of magic in terms of getting an organization to do what he wants or to do what he thinks they need. But it is going to be fascinating. And with new ownership, to your point, comes a lot of, comes a lot of uncertainty, right? Like philosophically, how are they going to approach a lot of things? So we'll just have to wait and see.

I did hear that, I mean, somebody said it. So this isn't my own thought. But I heard that they were in the DeAndre Aiton race with Milwaukee. So they might, you know, that might fill the need for the center. Like things might, just because they didn't happen on night one or the first 12 hours doesn't mean they're not percolating and they're not about to happen, right? But we'll just have to wait and see. DeAndre Aiden, we don't talk much Portland.

on this podcast for obvious reasons. But Diadra Aiden getting a buyout and entering the free agency market, if I'm a championship team, I don't know if, like, he's going to be, hopefully he changes his, has changed his mindset since the last time he was on a team competing for titles. But like,

a scary proposition, but the price should be fine. But he just seems like a guy that doesn't necessarily uplift a for it and a roster for it in championship aspirate. But we'll see. We'll see. No, but I mean, I don't know that I can disagree with that, but I guess who would in the center market,

I mean, that was affordable for the Lakers. I don't know. The Warriors are probably going to keep Cominga. Good move or bad move. I'm okay. I'm okay with that. I think it's more because it's not a market. It seems like it's another marriage of convenience, right?

I don't think the market is as sweet as Kaminga thought it was going to be, right? Yeah, that could be the reason. for it, but he is a talented player. And he's got unique athleticism and size. This is all desirable stuff. So just because his mind's not right and we kind of went in on him a pot to go for that, doesn't mean we can't get him to see the light and, and have him, you know, mature and turn into what we hope he can be. Right. So like, if the market's not right for the move, I'm okay with that. I'd like to think that, you know, I was a young guy that thought I knew a lot. And then every day I realized I didn't know as much as I thought I did.

So if he's, if he can learn and mature and get better and, and learn how to play in that system and, and use it, what it, what it should be for him in terms of experience and tutelage. Like, he's, he's very tantalizing as a talent. I don't, I think, I don't know that his upside is what he thinks his upside is as a player. Like, but he's tantalizing nonetheless. I think that I could see them doing maybe a. Maybe like a two or three year deal, but he's going to sign a very tradable contract is what I think is going to happen. And if it doesn't work out at the beginning of the season, I think they'll look to trade him again.

But this should be a humbling for him. So like in the best case scenario, it's a humbling for him. And he goes out there so I'm going to play my role of the best of my ability and maybe makes an all-star in that way. But we'll see. We'll see. But I think he's going to be back now. All signs point to him. I don't know how much more free agency stuff we've got for you guys right now.

So we're going to go to Mr. Cliff Augustine, who has, have you figured out a name for the new Philly WMBA team yet? The Philly Bells is one that that's going around right now. That's fire. The baddies on broad is another, is another name that I put out there. You know what I'm saying? That's not happening. Something like that. It's not going to.

That's not happening. That part's not. Is it that New Jersey? Isn't that a, that's like a U-A-U-T? You know what? It might be an A-A-A-U-A-U-A-A-U-A. A.U team actually, Raj. I think you might be right. I think so. Like a women's YBL, I think

Bells exist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do think you're right, actually, Raj. Now I'm thinking about it. I think... Yo, Raj's locked in. A home girl might have played on that team back in. Yeah, I think my niece played on that team, I think. I went to watch them playing Dallas. They were hooping, hooping. Yeah. What's the legality of taking

an AAU team's name? I don't know. Probably got to give them a little check, you know what I'm saying? That's a scammer. Or it's a great branding opportunity, right? Get the W team and then, you know, merge them into your AAU teams, the pipeline. I don't know how illegal that is, but, you know, hey, let's do it. Definitely right about that. All right, you already get this first one going?

Let's get it pop. This is from Noah. This is actually speaking of Kamenga. No one on Kamiga here, so just brace yourselves here. Why does Lake of like a player who can't shoot, never ever passes, doesn't fit into motion offense? lowest IQ player I've ever seen below average defender, ball watcher on rebounds, self-absorbed.

Why the hell is Kamiga values so much with this organization? That is from Noah. Was that, was that Rogers Burner? Well, I mean, I've written about this. Leake up wants stars, and he sees Kamenga as a star,

and he's very scared of a prospect of not having stars post Steph Curry. anybody that he sees that can fill up seats. I don't know if Kaminga is necessarily someone that's going to fill up seats, but he is going to push for guys like that. And also there's another wrinkle to this, which is ever since I believe the 2020 draft, Lakob has had a firmer grip on the front office and, you know, started with the Wiseman pick. it's turned into him having say on a lot of the personnel moves in a way that he just didn't during the early part of his tenure with Golden State. And now that he has Bob Myers isn't in the building to kind of massage that and kind of like

convince him know, hey, this isn't what we should do. You have a different front office dynamic, right? And that's not to say that Mike Dunleavy hasn't, you know, done good things. but Lacobs imprint is on a lot of these types of moves. And you saw it like when after the season, when it was kind of clear, Kaminga and the coaching staff was at odds. There was a bit of a Lake of Power move at the Valkyries game

where he puts Kaminga front row with him as like a, and they're watching the game together and they looked at it under Jumbotron. And it was a very bunch of a sense of like, oh, okay, we see. who's making the decisions here and we see how much Lacob is going to put his influence on there.

And there are all those red flags that Noah put out there, but it's more of a, it's more of a vanity play than anything. Lakeb wants to star and he thinks that can start and be one. He's always felt that way. And he doesn't want to be wrong with his picks. So he's going to pay

all that money to try to convince people he isn't wrong. There goes. Sounds like a bold strategy. Let me just double I would just double down on what I said a few minutes ago about talent. And what the combination of that and measurables and athleticism can do to anyone. I'm not saying it's the Golden States front office. It might be like a,

but like when you see things that don't look all the way like other things, I mean, we can agree when you roll up, Logan, you've seen him in person more than me. That's an impressive build, right? Absolutely. And he does things like, he does things like, you can fucking put his shit on the rim, you know? Like that's really cool to see.

You can dunk on people. Right. And that's why I said, like, that's why even me when I'm watching them play and I see the athleticism or lack thereof overall on that roster and then you put him in and he's able to like just get to the rim whenever he wants. Like that's intoxicating sometimes. It's hard to get, it's hard to give up on that quite frankly sometimes. And it's not just a golden state issue.

It's not just an NBA issue. This is life. Yeah. One thing I like is under the golden state. era that I just, just am annoyed about when I see them is like in an era where you have to pivot like quickly and you see all this action happening, they're so slow to the punch,

right? Like, I mean, not to say, I thought the Jimmy Butler trade was, you know, they didn't really give up much for them. They just put two extra years on this contract.

But there isn't any wheeling and dealing going on. It's a lot of, a lot of patience. And like, Miles Turner was out there was to be had, right? Like at a point in time, Pascal Seaccombe was there to,

to be had, right? And he was a very effective piece for a finals team. But they're like sitting on their thumbs not getting guys. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that they won't part with Cominga. And it's just like dude, come on.

Like I get it with talent. And I know he had career highs. And there are times like, you know, Tuesday and January. And even at this point, Tuesday and April, or you're like, damn, this dude is something. but on the Tuesday and April, even though he bawled out, they still lost that game, right? That's what is not adding up right now.

The math isn't math is what you're saying, Logan. The math isn't matter. I mean, it's not mathing right now. The math isn't that role. All right. This is from Reza to Harry. How will the next generation talk about us? Every 15 years, the kids have to tear down the retired superstars old people won't

stop talking about. What will be the hottest take of 2040? example, LeBron and Katie were hired guns who jumped to better teams to stay competitive. From 2015 to 2025, the words were the only quality championship team because everyone else beat injured teams. Kobe put a Mamba Hex on the Kings, and that's why it's 2040 and they still haven't won a playoff series. I hope how Rebecca enjoys this one, Reza from Sacramento.

Shout up to Sacto. What's one? Let's get creative here. Oh, the lamello ball takes are going to be nuts in 2040. They're going to be crazy. where they're going to just be like, yo, man, if he was just on a champion, the whole league was stupid because they didn't see him and put him in the right situation. He was there to be had.

And we didn't just give him the right opportunity or something like that. Or like he should have been an MVP. He wasn't MVP, but y'all third eye wasn't open. I feel like the hottest. You know what the hottest takes are going to be? You know, Paul George really was the goat, but he just always was just her. You know how the young boys love Paul George. They do.

They do. I don't know what that says about Gen Z. but like they loved them with Paul George they loved them surprise they these kids idolized Paul George every TikTok every video you see yo Paul George Logan am I lying? You're not lying bro you're not they love them some Paul's yours

no no disrespect to Paul George I guess I haven't seen that I am not tapped in like that also like facts are just not going to matter so because of that we're going to be in a space where we're going to like as old heads are going to are you fucking serious Roger what was the take that that pisses you off from the last generation that we have said.

I'm sure it took you a long time to get around to the fact that LeBron was like the greatest player of all time or like at least over Jordan. Yeah, I don't love that. But I mean, I've experienced LeBron and I live through that. So I can have that conversation with you. I know the plumbers conversation got you pissed off. I know like people just like. Plummer.

Oh, when they're saying old school. The German plumbers. You know, touching, touching, touching Jordan. in any way, shape, or form. Like, some of the times when we get to the Kobe better than Jordan and stuff like that. Like, that, that bothers me a little bit. No disrespect to Kobe. But, like, but, yeah, I don't know.

I generally, you know, I don't get into that shit, bro. I don't be bothered with that. The one, you know, the one that urges people sold to James Hart versus D-WA one? That James Howard. Oh, stop. Stop. That urge people. That's not even a, okay.

Do they say that James Hardin is better than doing away? Bro. Jeff Teague and then was on the pod, like, screaming. and crying that James Harder was better than D. Wade. What did James Harder do after May in his career? Sam, look, listen, I see in the first hand. I would never say, way, got three of them things.

So this is interesting to me, though. This is interesting to me because it, no, yeah, because it's not, I'm not going to weigh in on who's better or not. Like, I don't, I don't love doing that. But I think, you know, this is where Howard and I come to a disconnect sometimes when we talk about players, right? And this often happens when you're talking to X, players, they're talking to you about from a Hooper's eye, skill level, what they can do,

who's a better player? And a lot of times fan and media are coming at it from like who won championships. And Hoopers, that's why Michael Beasley will stand there and straight up tell you, like, I am better than X, Y, and Z, even though his career didn't pan out. Because a lot of times Hoopers are coming up it purely from a hoop standpoint. Like, if I had to guard him or him, who would I pick? Like, or I can see that. I need it a bucket. If you're guarding. If you're guarding, James Harden, like, on it, as a one-on-one player, it's, he's one of the greatest to ever do. Right. Like, especially, uh, drawing files, even though Dwayne Wade drew his sheriff.

I guess I could see it. But, like, yeah. And I'm not even weighing in on it. I'm just saying that's the interesting part to me because like the debate is often a disconnected debate because you're like you're almost debating two different things, right? Like the, the ex-hooper is talking about purely skilled. level and appreciation. And who we had to guard.

Yeah. And there's the craft itself where like, you know, you can act in a bad movie and be a phenomenal actor. The movie might be bad, but your performance could have been outrageously good. Zenzuela's done that a couple times and made a lot of bad movie solid. And another actor might say, like, you might just walk away as a general fan and be like, shit movie. And another actor might appreciate that performance in a way like, dude, that was it.

And so I think you run into that sometimes when. athlete or like former pro pros are talking about like who their favorite is versus you know us on this side sometimes or or like just you know media or fans so on and so forth cliff you know who else i think is going to be history is going to like love on maybe a little bit too much kairie oh yeah i think i think that they are going to like and i love kairi's game i think we're he's amazing and like watching him play on a nightly basis has been great But I think that they are going to inflate, like, his value to what a team, like, or what he should have been. Like, he was injured all the years.

He didn't really do great in Brooklyn, but like the bag, right? His highlight tape is nuts. Rise, you know he's talking about the bag, right? Bag. They're going to talk about the bag. I'm hypocritical on this one because you know how the bag irks me. You know how that gets me like. They're going to call them better than Steph.

They're already doing it right now. Yeah. So, again, this is. is the interesting part of this conversation. What are we talking about being better at? Are we talking about being a better overall winner in the NBA? Well, not even a comparison. Are we talking about a more skilled better, like when a basketball player talks about who's a basketball, better basketball, they're talking about skill level. Yeah. They're talking about drop us on a court who's got better skills. They're rarely talking about like, it's about who they have to guard. Yeah. So like if you make me

say who's better between those two, we can have a real conversation about that. Now, if you ask me who was the better pro and who had the better career, I'm not even question. Like, if you ask me who was, whose skill set was better for a team to win a championship, I don't think about it, not a question either. But like if you said to somebody who's a, just a better player skill-wise, I'm not weighing in again, but we can have the conversation. You're going to have a lot of guys that didn't win shit talking about, but you don't, listen, listen, you know, hey.

Yeah. So there'll be a lot of rewriting of history in 24. That's a great question. 100%. We see it now, man. These discussions carry basketball now. They don't even talk about the game no more. Rod,

they don't talk about the game no more. They talk about Kobe was better than T-Mack. Clif. I want to hear that. Roger. You ain't never lied, though, because I'm in the car with Zen. And Zen's probably the one that's in it the most now who likes to ask me, yo, dad, who is better, X or Z?

And I'm like, oh, my God, Zen. I love you, bro, but I fucking hate this. I see some young bulls. So you're right. Bro, I see some young bulls on TikTok talking about, yo, Magic Johnson would just be Ben Simmons today. I'm just like, all right, man. Like, we've lost the plot.

This is, we've got carried away. We've lost the plot. We and Cliff will text at like fucking one in the morning. Like, do you see this shit? Are you serious right now? We will see each other. And, Madge, it's from the shows of respectable former Hoopers, too. So, I mean, we're not going to pass judgment on nobody.

But a lot of times, they just get in their way and getting a feeling. The egos are there. It's nuts, bro. Oh, my God. I appreciate you, Roger, because you are a former player, but you don't be letting your ego get in a way to make you say some bullshit. Because there's a lot of former players that let their ego get in the way and they say some wild shit.

Well, I mean, there's a point with us all where the ego takes over, right? Like, I'd like to think that I'd push my point further or further back as I've gotten older, less testosterone maybe. But, yeah, I mean, look, I don't know. We all have buttons. Like, you find the right button to hit with somebody. Like, I've been hot on here before. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not more.

Last episode. The fuck. Just say Russell Westbrook and you're going to be right back. Yeah, that'll be right back. Bro, speaking of which Russell Westbrook is going to be in 2040 is going to be. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yo, it's going to be. Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I think Russ loses. I think Russ loses. is Russ loses a little bit every year. That's Shay's in there?

Yeah, because it's just so much, and there's just so much shit talked about Russ now. Like, I've covered this at Nause him, but like he gets slandered so much that that next generation is not going to have any appreciation for Russ in my mind. They'll think he was a bump. He might get a race, you think?

I know, I think that the, the narrative on Russ, and maybe this is why I'm so protective and I get so angry is eventually that he was a bump, that it was all. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's coming. That is for sure, for sure coming. Don't worry. That is coming.

All right, you want to get to this last one? Let's do it. This is from Will Cheney, LeBron Trade. I'm a Lakers fan. He meant to say, wouldn't mind trading LeBron for pieces to surround Luca be the best of both worlds. The team that gets LeBron gets to sell tickets, jerseys, and had the retirement tour.

Lakers get some needed pieces and can compete. I think he goes to the Cavs or the Knicks. What do you all think? I don't think there isn't a market for LeBron. not at the salary that he wants to command bro like it's just not going to happen yeah i mean i i put in a i put an entrance survey like just put him with fucking yoke uh yokech and like let's just see them ball out just one year you know but that's the problem with lebron he don't really got a home like that i mean i guess he has one with the lakers but he hasn't embraced that home and i think

that that's been um it's been a gift and a curse for him uh he need to just take the bag with LA. Just take the retirement tour with the Lakers, bro. If you went back to Cleveland, I don't think Cleveland necessarily wants them in that way, right? Like, it doesn't really make sense. They're trying to compete for titles right now. And I don't think LeBron and a farewell tour is going to be good for that. And the Knicks are in the same boat, right? But also, he doesn't have any attachments to the Knicks. Imagine he went to Madison Square Garden at this stage and all them people who he dug, that fan base that he dubbed twice,

right? You saw how fucking sad Ben was when he was on the pot we asked him about LeBron James. Imagine he comes back and he's like, yo, man, New York, you New York to Burroughs. And they're like, bro, you fucking dubbed us twice. And now we're, now we're trying to go compete. It, like, you want to take all the oxygen for your ass?

Like, no, you're not even a Nick. Kick rocks. Just stay in LA. LeBron for O.G. and Nobu. Who says no? The streets. Yo, and a possible reunion with Mike Brown, too? Come on, man. It's all written there. It's all written there. Do you remember how to end it with him and Mike Brown, right?

I do. Mike Brown got bounced up out of there. He got freed. Oh, man. LeBron. LeBron, just let a fan base love you for once. Like, let it happen. dog. What you mean?

Cleveland. This is for you. What you mean? Right. Yeah, that wasn't manufactured at all. What happened before that? What happened before that? Do they love him?

All right. All right. They burned his jersey, but he went out. Sorry for them, though. All right. I mean, bro. And then he left him again. Imagine you play in your hometown and you go on national TV and say,

y'all I'm out. I'm cool off, y'all. I don't want ever be around, Joe. I get it. I get it. Well, I'm talking about with the results of that. it's a complicated relationship. He got a...

He has a series of complicated relationships. He brought a chip back to Cleveland. He got it in their book. That's it. Yeah, but they still don't. They're like, yo, LeBron, can you take a pay cut, bro? The team wants to go back. He's not going to make as much money nowhere else but Los Angeles.

Like, he just needs to just, you know, chill, go build that big ass house. Yeah. This falls into the category. It just, look, it rarely ends the way you want to to end. You know what I mean? Like, you don't get to, you don't, very few people get to script the way it ends. And most people are, are slightly disappointed with the way it ends. But I don't know if he even knows how he wants it to end. He's just playing now at this point. Like, I don't know. Like, I mean, he wants at the stage where he has everything. But he wants it to end with a championship. Like,

he wants it to end with the Lakers just move in heaven and earth to get him everything he thinks that he needs, whether it winds up in a championship or not. That's the way he's, the way he's, he wants that to end. And it's just not going to probably end like that. But it ain't your team no more, bro. You should have, you should have, you should have retired maybe after the 2020 season. But he can't do that because he, you know, it wasn't outside and he didn't get to, you know, he didn't get to have a celebration, right?

But, I mean, that's just, it's tough shit for LeBron, man. I mean, he just doesn't want to be loved. And he's for the streets. And that's kind of what it is. Oh, man. He is. LeBron. No,

I ain't gonna do that. I ain't gonna do that. I'm not doing that. It's his fault. If you want to co-sign that shit, you can co-sign it. But I'm not go-sign to that. It's true.

No, listen, I am not. And it's not nobody's fault, but his. If he wanted to love that he so desperately desires and he wanted all these things and he wanted a franchise to, like,

move heaven and earth for him, he should have stayed where, or at least a couple of teams he should just stay longer than he did and just went through shit. But he was like, nah. And to his credit, that's fine. Miami, you guys are getting old.

I need to bounce to go to this young team and get this narrative story right, right? This storybook ending right. Okay, bet. It's gone everywhere. It's supposed to go in Cleveland for the second time. I'm going to go to the Lakers, right? And then he didn't fully embrace it.

But Monty Jones said something really good on his podcast the other day where it was, like when he went to the Lakers, he should have just went full Mr. Laker. I am taking the baton after Kobe and I am going to be the standard bear of what a Lakers should be. And then I would recruit for them. I will have a home here. But no, he didn't do that.

He was in the business of LeBron. And every year it was, I'm going to use the leverage points that have worked in every other state or every other team that I've been on. And it's going to work out. But now we see the end of that. right now. Now the Lakers are like, huh, we're still the Lakers and we're getting Luca. Multiple things, right? Number one, I don't, I don't think that makes you for the streets because he navigated his career. He did. Franchises do that all the time. It's for modus operandi,

right? Like, they use you until they don't think they can use you to win anymore, and then they keep it moving. So, like, a player having the, having the structure of a CBA and the ability to maneuver in, in that CBA in that way, to allow himself to stay viable for championship, I've got no beef with that. Also, if you operating within an organization the way you have for your entire career has resulted in chasing championships in every destination you've been, why would you think that it wouldn't be the same way in LA? So I don't begrudge anybody doing that. Like, that's, there's a track record that. We got proof of concept with that. All I'm saying is, like, at the end of it, like, it's just not going to end. Like, you've, it's now not going to end.

And I don't think he's looking for, like, wanting to be loved by, like, anybody. all what he wants is what he always gets take this roster and move whatever you need to move to put the best potential team around me to try to win this championship and whatever this little window is and they're just not going to be able to do that at this point and if that's the love you're talking about then that is what he's looking for but i don't think he's looking for any kind of like i don't think he needs a farewell tour i don't think he needs to be loved by nine fan bases necessarily like i think you know he just what he wants at the end for this to be a successful end to the to the to the the career for him is for them to move the pieces and expend all of the capital in a,

in a one year, one and a half, two year window, and they're just not going to do that. Yeah, you can't have it both ways. And I will push back on the thing that I do think that he does want the physical farewell tour. I do think he wants that. I absolutely do. Right. And I think, like, especially if he could do it in a Laker uniform and get celebrated, even though it's probably not going to hit the same as other farewell tours.

But I think he's going to be, you know what I mean? But I do think that. Anyway, I don't know how the hell we got an hour of a podcast. Congratulations to everyone involved. Good job, Cliff. Good time, Victoria. Good job, Roger. We will see you guys next week.

That's been another edition of real ones. We will see y'all next week. I'll let me look at the notifications and see if there was a big trade that has happened. I don't believe so. So we are going to see y'all next week. All the shits. Bye.