The Ringer NBA Show - Giannis Antetokounmpo’s MVP Moment | The Corner 3

Episode Date: April 5, 2019

We recap the exciting Bucks comeback win over the Sixers on Thursday night, which featured gigantic performances from Giannis and Joel Embiid (1:30). Then, ahead of the Final Four, we take one last dive into NCAA tournament prospects like Jarrett Culver and De'Andre Hunter (21:30). Hosts: Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. April is a huge month for TV, and starting this weekend, the Recapables feed returns to give you in-depth analysis on your favorite TV shows, including Killing Eve, billions, and many more. There will also be a special pre-capable series on the Recapables feed on the final season of Game of Thrones, where our staff forecasts what will happen every Sunday on the show. So make sure to subscribe now before the premiere of Killing Eve and Game of Thrones on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you can. at your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. My name is Danny Chow, filling in for Kevin O'Connor on this episode of the Corner 3.

Joining me on the other line from Dallas is Ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. How's it going? What's up, man? It's nice to talk NBA again. Like, watching some NBA game this week, it's like, oh my God. This college basketball is fun, but the level, it's just different sport. Right. And we actually got a great game on Thursday in early April.

You know, imagine that. The Bucks had an impressive comfort. from behind victory over the Sixers, 128, 122, last night, Eric Bledso got ejected very early on after, you know, playing dodge ball with Joel

Embed. At least get your money's worth, man. Mark is smart. Like, he got that ejection, but he shoved Embed on the ground. Like, Bletsoe, if you're going to get kicked out, at least get him in the face with the ball. That's all I'm saying. I know, like, well, I was just kind of surprised that M.B. didn't catch the ball. Like, it wasn't like he threw it that hard.

Like, it just kind of bounced off his chest. and Embedde was like, all right, yeah, and then Bledsoe just kind of walked off. But I don't know. That was a weird start to the game. I thought, you know, it kind of set the scene for, you know, a playoff atmosphere. But it didn't really cloud from the fact that we got some massive performances from the two biggest stars in the game. Joel and Bid had a triple double, yana's had a super efficient 45 point double double. I mean, is this matchup exactly what the Eastern Conference finals needs?

I mean, it's what the TV executives want for sure. There's a lot of personalities. There's a lot of narrative. I wonder if we'd come down to those two former Spurs coaches. You got Brett Brown and Mike Buttonholzer, right? That's pretty interesting. They both kind of wound up with like their own versions of Tim Duncan, right, basically. Wow.

That's, yeah, that's a good comparison. Of those two coaches, who do you think is more likely to be proactive in kind of switching things up? See, I'm not sure either one. Like, I feel like they're both like, we do our stuff for the Spurs, whatever. that's why I kind of want to see the Raptors play these teams. I feel like with Nick Nurse in there, it's something get crazy real fast.

Right. Whereas these two teams might be the same matchups the entire series. Yeah, Nick Nurse has kind of, I mean, this has basically been his brand all season long. He's just throwing these, you know, wild lineups out there just to kind of see what they can do. And, you know, at times it gets kind of frustrating because we don't really know what to expect

from a lot of these lineups going forward. But it's like he knows exactly what his play. players are capable of doing, and he will toss out a random lineup just to see what happens. I feel like this series be very traditional because you have like M. Bid and Lopez. It's kind of interesting because they're both so essential to each team's formula. I think this would be a series where you wouldn't see much small ball really. You'd probably see pretty big lineups all the way through. Which is interesting because the Bucks are still dealing with a lot of these kind of lingering injuries.

The Bucks have been very blessed for most of the season with good health, but recently, you know, Palgassal's out for a month. Miratech is out for maybe another two weeks. It'll be interesting to see. Well, Brogden too, right? When does he come back? Brogden apparently might come back for the playoffs at some point, but it's not... Oh, I was thinking the back like first round, so it's a lingering issue.

I think so. And especially with like the planter fascia, like that, injury is not something to like mess around with. Like that thing can linger for forever. Well, the good thing is that that first round series, they should have a pretty easy go of it. And then round two, maybe they can get the Pacers.

And then maybe they can kind of really get things going for the East Conference Finals. Right. I think the biggest takeaway from the game was just, Yannis kind of had his MVP moment against Embed. 45 points, 13 rebounds, six assists, five blocks, no turnovers. And four of those five blocks were on Embed,

including, you know, what might have been his true trademark MVP moment, a huge block on an Embed attempted dunk that had Embed flat on his ass. Oh, yeah. Yeah, just, you know, grabbing at his tailbone. He kind of looked a little ginger for most of the game, but obviously he played for most of it and still put up his numbers. Yeah, Yonest blocking shots was incredible. Like, one little digression, when a Zaire Smith tried to dunk on him,

he's like, bro, you're not in the Big 12 anymore. Like, this is not even close to happening. I'm like twice your size. No, no, no, sir. Yeah, and then with him and Embed, like, watching that game, Embedd can not guard him. Like, they've been trying to, like, oh, I'm going to have Embedd, like, sag 10 feet off Janus, but the game is too easy for Janus like that. Like, he had all in the world to, like, runway to attack the rim.

And the Embedith, he's just too slow to guard Janus. I'm not sure that's going to work in a playoff series very long, that match up. Right. Yeah, I think, and in recent games, recent weeks, recent months, Teams have tried to kind of body Janus with, you know, larger defenders. DeAndre Aden comes to mind in that improbable Suns win over the Bucks a few weeks ago. But that feels like more them trying to put a lid on the rim and less them trying to take advantage of Janus's lack of strength. Because there is no lack of strength.

Like, Janus with even a little bit of momentum, basically pushed and beat around. Like, it's all about getting that leverage in terms of force. stuff. So, like, Janus is basically a rumbling, you know, enormous center with, you know, the ball handling of a guard. It's, it's really impossible to imagine how you defend this guy in playoffs. Yeah, he's really causing matchup problems, which I guess is obvious because he causes matchap problems for everyone, but against Philly especially. So, like, M. B's not guarding him. So Yannis is getting his point so easily, getting wherever he wants to go on the floor. And then Janus is, like, quote unquote, guarding Ben Simmons, but he's really, like, freelancing all over the

floor. He had like three blocks in the last minute because he's not guarding Simmons. And he's like, okay, I'll double on M-Bed, no problem. Yeah, and it kind of goes back to a piece that I wrote last week or maybe at this point, two weeks ago. I can't even remember anymore. The content grind is a very long one. It's real. It's real. But yeah, that's kind of the ploy that the Bucks utilize probably better than any team in the league in the regular season is putting Janus on the weakest shooter on the floor so that he can kind of freelance, play the free safety role, which is terrifying because he's seven feet tall. Yeah, it's like seven foot Draymond. Yeah, it's wild. And, you know,

we talk about Ben Simmons, like what exactly do the Sixers do with Ben Simmons in the playoffs? It's not like he's really changed his game. It's not like he's going to be taking threes. It's not like, you know, I mean, he had, what, six points on five shots yesterday? I think the biggest thing, he has to be the one who guards Janus. Like, has he guarded him much before? Because in this game, he tried to guard him in the fourth quarter for a couple minutes.

Yonash just bullied him in the post. I'm like, Ben Simmons, you're 610, 250. Be strong. So according to individual matchup data from Second Spectrum on MBA.com, Simmons has guarded Janus on 60 possessions

over their past three games. And so that's, you know, it's a sizable amount. How did he do in those possessions? That's the funny thing. So when Simmons was the primary defender, Janice is only shooting 40% from the field, but that's only individually.

In terms of the team, the bucks are doing just fine when that happens. Like, Janus is creating so many assists, and plus he's living at the line whenever Simmons is guarding him. So it kind of falls into exactly what we think. You know, Simmons can't really guard him. Yeah, to me, that's what he has to do.

like Simmons has to become a more impactful defender in these kind of matchups, because that's where you really can kind of add value to the team. I think too, you see in this one, you have to have the ball. Because if Simmons is off the ball and Yonnas is guarding him, like, it creates too many problems for the rest of the team. So like, I think with Philly, it all comes down to Embedd's shooting threes. That's a shot that Simmons gets from Bede anytime he wants. And he's got to make that shot. Until Embed becomes a great three-point shooter, I kind of wonder if there's a ceiling on this version of the team. Right. Yeah. And it's, it's funny because Embed has kind of mentioned all season long, oh, I don't really want to shoot threes. That's not really my game, but I kind of have to do it.

It kind of felt like an old school type of center machismo type of thing. But for this team specifically, that's what he needs to do because, you know, Tobias Harris secretly hasn't really been shooting the ball all that well. He still spaces the floor, obviously, because he's always going to be a threat. but when Butler can't really be trusted to shoot from long range and Simmons is definitely not going to be shooting any threes in the playoffs. Embed has all the tools to do anything on the court, and that's kind of his burden. This is what he has to do now,

because the rest of the team can't really step up. It feels like, you know, Embed and Janice, like, whichever one of those guys becomes a great three-point shooter, that could, like, decide the next, the Eastern Conference the next, like, five years. Janus is taking a bunch of threes now. He shoots them confident. They don't always go in, but he takes them.

Yeah, I mean, Budenholzer has mentioned this multiple times in the recent games. He has a complete green light to shoot it. Over the past 12 games, he's averaging more than four three-point attempts per game, which is just, that's just not, yeah, that's not something that we're accustomed to seeing. And, you know, that's a lot for a guy who projects as, like, a center in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, he airballed, I think two shots last night, but he made two also. Like, they were really bad airballs, but you know what? just keep shooting if it's there.

And like with MB guarding him, he has all the time in the world, you know, check his tie his shoes, look around, you know, there's no one in his face. I think going back

instead about Tobias Harris, one thing I noticed in this game is like, the bucks are really trying to bait Harris taking those like pull up long twos. He's got to be very careful taking those shots because he comes off the screen. Lopez is dropping back. And his Instagram is like,

oh, money 18 foot jump shot. He's got to go to the rim. He can't, if he starts taking long twos too much, start to beat the. math against Milwaukee if it's long twos versus threes. Right. And should be noted, Butler was not playing last night.

So the dynamic was a little bit different. We definitely see a different Sixers team. But the only way that this would happen, that this matchup would happen is, is it the Eastern Conference Finals? Well, unless Philly dropped to the four or five, there are two games in front of Boston Indy, but I think it's not going to happen right by the schedules. Yeah, I feel like the Celtics and Pacers, who are also playing tonight. are probably going to cannibalize themselves in that four or five, four or five spot. They're kind of stuck there. Yeah, I mean, I think Philly Toronto would be an awesome series.

So this would be fun, but maybe this might have happened this year. Maybe it's down the road. But it'll happen eventually. It'll be really fun to watch. All right. So we got through the big names. Is it time for some geek talk? Zier Smith.

Zaire Smith. He's back. He's on the floor. He did some productive things. I think he had a three. I think he had a three. think it was his only shot of the game. I think he went one for five,

but he was a plus six. Some brutal misses, though. He had a fast break opportunity in the second half. He completely bricks a layup. I have no idea how it happens. Was he moving too fast? I don't know. I think there was a guy like two feet behind him.

He was worried about being undercut, so he didn't go up and dunk it. And he kind of was missed off the back of the room. It clanked off the back of the rim. A few seconds later, DJ Wilson hits a three on the other end. It ends up being a pretty pivotal five-point swing. Sixers could have had an eight-point lead. Instead, it dropped down to, what, three.

So that kind of allowed the bucks to stick around, and Janus kind of took them home by the end of the fourth. Yeah, I mean, this is the first time I really watched out here in the NBA. It just reminds you, like, how big NBA. Like, in college, it kind of felt like he was one of the biggest guys on the floor because he was so athletic and he was kind of dominating the game. Then against the NBA, he just looks so small out. there. Like even Chris Middleton.

Middleton's a huge guy. He's like, oh, you're not big enough to guard me. You're like 6'4. Yeah. I'm like 6'8. That's the big thing. Like, Zaire was basically a 6'4 power forward for Texas Tech last year. And I mean, I guess this is something that I had trouble with with Jared Culver. It's just the way that they kind of operate makes you think they're a lot bigger than they are. But yeah, at the same time, I feel like watching him.

I was like, oh, he kind of looks a little bit bigger than I remembered him in college. college in terms of like physique? He's frisky. I think if he can make three, he'll really help this team. But he didn't take him any in college. We'll see how that goes. I think like if he goes to his cold spell, Brett Brown will probably bench him in the playoffs.

It'll come on his shooting. I mean, it's even wild to think that he's going to be playing in the playoffs. This is his third game. Like, he has no seasoning, but at the same time, it's like the Sixers don't really have many options on the bench. We're not James Ennis out there. I mean, are there any other? other players between these two teams.

There are so many injuries that have kind of allowed these young guys to flourish or at least to show what they can do on the floor. Are there any guys, young guys that you think might make a difference in the playoffs? I think the guy that I'm watching for Philly is Jonah Bolden. I don't think you can play. I mean, Boban tried to play in this game for a few minutes, but it's like, no, this is serious basketball. Like, that's not going to happen.

Like, Bolden's got to be in there. Bolden's got to stick threes. Because I think to really get Simmons going, you have to have a stretch five. That's like the most important player to maximize Ben Simmons. And it's not going to be Amir Johnson. And if Bolden's not shooting threes, it might have to even go smaller and play like Mike Scott at the five. So I think Bolden kind of a really important role for this team if he can make his shots. Mike Scott, by the way, put up some numbers last night.

He made his threes. I mean, if you play with Ben Simmons, you got to make threes. It's funny because I feel like compared to Yanna Simmons is so much more limited, which makes like shooting more important around him. yet they don't really have it. So, yeah, Corner 3 favorite, DJ Wilson, might get some extended play, at least for the first two games,

assuming Miritage and Powell remain out. How do you see that kind of factoring into what the Bucks do in the playoffs? See, I think Wilson be more important a series against, like, Boston or Toronto, in terms of guarding Lowry or Kyrie on switches. And a series against Philly without a really pick and rule guard,

I'm sure Buttonholz will go with his vets. They're going to play Ilyosov, Miratich, pal as his backup Bigs.

I don't, I think DG could be very important for them, but I don't think in this series. And then, Sterling,

also my SMU guys, Sterling Brown and Shake Milton both getting minutes last night. That was pretty cool. I mean, Sterling Brown

what put up basically the numbers of his career against the Hawks last week, and he's been getting a lot more opportunities

with Brogden out. He's a guy some Brogdenish stuff to his game. Oh, yeah. And he's burly. He can shoot. He's smart. Can be that kind of, you know, secondary playmaker.

He's, I mean, he's basically a Brogden clone, to be honest. I think he's actually a little bit bigger than Brogden is. He's thick for sure. Another guy who probably should have been a sixer. He was a sixer for a little bit for they traded him. Yeah, we should point that out. That was terrible. Like, that looks so bad now.

You can't sell second round pick. to your freaking Eastern Conference rivals, man, that's going to look really bad for them against a big game against them. Yeah, that's lacking a lot of foresight. George Hill, coming on strong, late, especially with Bledsoe out. He had a classic Tyreek Evans rookie stat line.

20 points, five rebounds, five assists. It was a strong look for one of my all-time favorites. 25-5 is a great stat line. Let's not call it Tyreek Evans. That's a great. Statler, come on. We were talking about Tyreek Evans before the show. I had to drop it in.

Yeah, I mean, he's important for Bledsoe insurance for sure. If Bledsoe is something stupid, they have someone behind him and hold that, hold things down. Yeah, I mean, he's not the player he was in Utah anymore. Even though I say that, he only spent one year at Utah, but he had a career season

in Utah. But having a guy who can shoot threes, credibly guard, you know, both guard spots, play mistake-free basketball. And just, he's a calm guy who settles guys down. He played in the finals last year. That has to count for something. He had a big three last night, like at the end of the game.

Yep. And I'm wondering if we should be worried at all about the Sixers who, you know, last year, they rolled a 16 game winning streak into the playoffs last year. They're looking a little shaky to close out this season this year. They're 15 and 12 since the beginning of February. Do you think any of this matters? I mean, they've put a lot of guys out, right? And B's been out for a while,

Bueller's been out of the lineup. I'm in the opinion when you get to playoffs, it's all about matchups. Like, I mean, Philly's win streak last year, they played Boston, what did matter, right? Right. In that first round against the heat, they looked, you know, unbeatable.

And we were suddenly talking about, oh, this team can make it to the, you know, Eastern Conference finals right away. But yeah, I feel like, especially in the playoffs, it's all matchup-driven. We saw it with Portland and New Orleans,

how quickly, you know, perspectives can change. So it's not always all that important to come in hot as long as you get the favorable matchup. But even then, that's kind of hard to control as well. Yeah, and to be honest, like I'm watching most of the NCAA tournament in March,

so I have to say that. NBA plan March is it's okay. It doesn't really matter. It's all about matchups. Oh, I think we're just about ready to get the regular season over with, but there's still some really consequential games left on the slate. And that brings us to the NBA watch of the night.

Portland versus Denver on ESPN at 1030 Eastern. This is the first leg of a home and home with Portland. So they're playing Friday and then again on Sunday. These two weekend games could really swing the Western Conference playoff landscape. Yeah, you want to go into standings real quick? It's pretty close. Yeah. So the Nuggets are only one and a half games above. the Rockets for the 2 seed. And that's where it gets kind of dicey because the Nuggets have to play the Blazers on Sunday again

and the Red Hot Jazz in Utah on Tuesday. The Rockets' next two games are against the Knicks and Sons. So, there you go. I mean, it's looking like a pretty good bet that the Rockets might rise up to the two, nuggets drop down to the three,

and then suddenly, I don't know, there's already a lot of jostling for position in the bottom, teams are probably licking their chops trying to get to the six seat if that happens. Yeah, I mean, you'd much other see Denver than Houston. The thing I'm going to watch in this

game is, so since they lost Nerkich, their next five games, Portland has been Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, Minnesota, Memphis. So, like, against those kind of teams you can play N.S. Cantor at Center, we'll see again this weekend against Yokic, that's going to hold up. And to me, that's the question of

point right now is, how long do they stick with Cantor, and when do they concede defeat, get to the Zach Collins hive, get going to find basketball. Zach Collins had a pretty good game last time. He hasn't been getting in too much foul trouble, which I feel like is his biggest kind of drawback in the playoffs. You just can't really trust him to stay on the floor.

But, I mean, as we've been saying all season, he adds such a unique element to this team. There aren't many players in the league who can reliably spot up from three and block shots at the rate he does. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'm not holding my breath. I feel like a lot of canter is coming on before we actually see that adjustment.

That's what I'm thinking for these other Western Conference teams. Like, if you see NS Canter at 5 in the first round, that's a green light for two points every single time, right? Yeah, that gives you a hope against the team for sure. Yeah, so a lot at stake with this one tonight, Portland and Denver, ESPN, 1030 Eastern. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, Subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com or your local cable or satellite provider.

We've spent, you know, the past few corner threes going pretty heavy on the NCAA tournament and the prospects we're excited about. This weekend will be tuned into the final four. And, you know, it's not really the final four we were all promised before the season. There are still, you know, some major prospects playing over the weekend. Auburn's playing Virginia in the early game. Michigan State's playing Texas Tech after that. DeAndre Hunter and Jared Culver are their two biggest prospects left standing? Where do you see them going with these final couple games?

And what do you hope to see from them out of the weekend? Well, I think for Culver, so I did a big story on him on Friday, I guess Friday. And he really struggled on offense against Michigan and Gonzaga, against bigger, more athletic defenders. So Charles Matthews against Michigan, and then against Gonzaga, they would switch screens. And he had trouble against Hachamara and Brandon Clark.

So to me, like, Jared Culver initiating offense against elite defenders. And this first game against Michigan State, he's going to go up against this guy in Aaron Henry. So you might have heard of Aaron Henry. He's the guy that Thomaso yelled at in the tournament and became like a national story. But he's actually a pretty good basketball player. Hey. So he's a freshman.

He's a 6-6, 210-pound 3-D wing. He's got a lot of NBA potential. I think that matchup will be key in that game is Culver trying to create shots against that kind of defensive player one-on-one. Right. And we've talked about Culver so much in the past two weeks. So I think we can kind of gloss over

a lot of his strengths and weaknesses. We've definitely had that covered. Though I think we could see in this game the other thing with Culver is I wonder if he will guard Cassius Winston late. I want to see him trying to lock down like this elite NCAA point guard. Cassius Winston, we touched on him last week.

He's very much in that Jalen Brunson, Frank Mason, Fred Van Vleet, upper class and point guard, not very good athletically, but a very well-rounded game. He beat Duke by himself almost, and he could make himself a lot of money this weekend. Just, I'm a classic winning point guard. I get, you know, that kind of thing. It'll be fun to watch him against Culver, maybe. I think that'll be key for tech on defense. I think that's one thing that we've kind of haven't actually talked about with Culver.

You know, him being 6-5, broad shoulders, long arms, you know, very smart on defense. Do you see him being a lockdown defender at the next level or having the potential to be? Yeah, I think so. I mean, he's got to get stronger. That's the big thing. So just this week, I had one scout tell me,

oh, he's for sure six foot seven. Like, I saw him at the tournament. He was like, I'm, he's like, I seen him. I'm taller than him. I saw exactly how tall he was six foot seven. But then when he had Roger tell us in Michigan that he was smart Charles Matthews, who's six foot six. Like, I need some measurements on Derek Culver immediately.

Yeah. Like someone bring a tape measure to this final four game. He is by far, I mean, because I'm just assuming that Zion's not going to be participating in any of the combine proceedings. But Jared Culver, please get all of your measurements done. We're dying to know. This is like Kyler Murray, I guess, but the other way. Like, how Paul are you really?

Absolutely. And I think for sure he's very good defensively. He's got great steel and block numbers. He's really smart. He's not super quick, but he's got very long arm. is very smart positionally. I think he could be a great defender on guys.

The only question with him is like bigger, stronger players. Like you're like, is he going to be able to guard your Jimmy Butler? I don't know. That's the question is how big can he get frame-wise

because he's not, right now he's still pretty skinny. He could get a lot thicker, hopefully. Right. And D'And D'Andre Hunter from Virginia, the other highly touted prospect

out of this draft, still in the final four. He's risen up the charts. And, you know, at this point, we can look at his tournament and be like, it's pretty uneven. We haven't really seen a standout performance. What are you expecting from him? It should be a fun game. So he's going to play Auburn.

Auburn, I think Auburn, Virginia is going to be a medal of, like, tempo and matchup. So, like, Auburn wants to play as fast as humanly possible, Jack 3s. Virginia wants to kill the pace, slow it down, be very deliberate. And I think, like, Auburn is going to want to speed up Hunter and make him make quick decisions. because it seems like he really pre-determin's what he's going to do. He's like, I have the ball, like jab step, jab step, dribble, dribble, shoot. Or I have the pass across the lane. But he rarely makes decisions on the fly.

And that'll be fun to watch that against Auburn. I'm really sad your guy, O'Kiki is out. That would have been an awesome matchup. He was incredible last weekend, man. I was brutal. I mean, it's funny because O'Kiki has kind of had the perfect roadmap to showing NBA teams just how valuable he could be at the next level. He played, you know, Kansas. He defended Dietrich Lawson. He defended, you know, North Carolina

guys. He killed him. He freaking killed them. He defended Carolina expertly. And, man, to see him against Hunter would have been incredible. And it would have shown kind of the breadth of what he could do against these kind of new age stretch four, stretch fives. It's a real bummer. I wonder what he does. Yeah, that's a tough call. I can kind of see him trying to get, I would think. think there's no real point to go back to school, right? Because if you go back to school now, you're not going to be able to play until next February, and you're going to be out the whole time, you're going to come up an ACL injury. You look at Deep Cut Jurey Foster S.M.U. Last year, the same thing happened. I mean, towards ACL. He came back middle of the season. He wasn't the same.

Now he's lost all his draft stock. And to me, like, if O'Kee can get a commitment from a team late first, early second, go to the NBA, get NBA training staffs, NBA recovery. That'd make a lot a sense. I mean, honestly, how high could he have gone if he had been healthy? Like, the way he's been playing this tournament? His specific skill set. He can shoot threes and he can reliably defend all around the floor. And he's, what,

6-8, 6-9? Reasonable athlete, not super explosive, but like really smart player. He's more fluid than DeAndre Hunter, right? Yeah, absolutely. More fluid player, probably quicker decision-maker. And DeAnd he's probably going top five, top ten. Like, O'Kee could have made that much money. If I was a team in late first,

I would think long and hard about promising O'Kee, getting him locked up. I usually had two picked or something. Future Spur. I can already see it. He could have won the whole tournament. If Auburn had Okiki, they could have won the whole thing.

Maybe they still will, but that would have been really fun to watch. Bruce Pearl. Yeah, you talk about, you know, Auburn, you know, wanting to speed this game up. Auburn's in the middle of the pack in the nation in terms of pace, but compared to Virginia,

who has the slowest pace. Yeah, they might as well be the fastest team in America. they take nearly 50% of their shots from three. It's been a winning formula so far. Virginia kind of has the players to match that, though. I think Kyle Guy and Ty Jerome, both very good three-point shooters. Hunter, who hasn't really shown it yet, but has been very good from three over the course of the season.

How do you feel that kind of interplay playing out? I'm curious to see, so really I think the matchup to watch is Ty Jerome versus. the guards at Auburn. So, like, Ty Jerome's a bigger point guard, really good shooter, really smart, but not very fast. And this is kind of the perfect matchup to see him go against, like, these super fast Auburn guard, especially Jared Harper, who can shoot pull-up threes from anywhere. And, like, I guess this is not too exciting, but, like, this could be, like, a backup point guard battle in the NBA. Yeah, my, I mean, my, like, very convenient comparison for Ty Jerome is just, look at how well

Landry Shamit has kind of acquitted himself in the NBA immediately being a guy who doesn't really make mistakes and just can run off the ball and shoot threes confidently off screens and off movement. So Ty Jerome is a guy I'm looking at

as maybe like a late first, early second kind of guy just because teams need these types of guys. He's at a high floor because he can really shoot it and he's really smart and he's smart. And he's smart, like solid positionally on defense. Like, you can plug Jerome into a system and he'll, like,

route guys where they got to go. He's not going to, like, breaks the system. He's a very, very smart player. And, like, he's UVA guys. They can know how to play within a system because they're forced to at UVA. Any other thoughts on guys who could probably make some money this weekend if they do well? I mean, Jared Harper, he's really fun to watch. He's like your classic, like, he's maybe 5'10, but he can really shoot threes off the

dribble and he can pass the ball. That's the kind of guy maybe you bring him in off the bench. kind of change the pace of the game. I'd guess he's going to be on draft because of his size, but he's a guy who could have a really big weekend if he's shooting both in three. Right. And Cassius Winston for Michigan State has been awesome.

And he's probably in that range as well. I don't know where he is necessarily, maybe early second, mid-second. Basically the realm of Fred Van Fleet, Jalen Brunton, Frank Mason, type. So yeah, the tournament will be over by next week. So I guess we should probably wrap up our thoughts on the tournament tournament in general. Charks, what's been your biggest takeaway on the tournament? So like really the last few weeks, I've really been breaking down, you know,

the rest of the lottery. I mean, we'll get to Zion later. But man, after Zion, it is tough, man. So I'm thinking about it right now. And it kind of feels like the big question starting at two is you have these two groups of players. You've got your. guys who could be initiators, RJ Barrett, John Morant, Jared Culver. And it's like, do you really want those guys being, like they might be better players than some of the

complimentary guys, but do you really want them being the feature guy on your offense at the NBA level? And that's like one group of guys. Then you've got the guys more on the range of like Brandon Clark, DeAndre Hunter, Cam Reddish, who might offer more defensively probably can't be primary.

Actually, no, certainly can't be primary initiators. But maybe they could be more valuable as three and D plus guys, as opposed to these kind of more ball dominant players, who you're not sure how that'll translate to the league. And that's kind of the eternal debate, right? And we have it all the time with KOC on the pod here. I feel like it really depends on just how much star power these teams see in these guys. We treat big boards generally as a sort of consensus.

But this year especially, I feel like the order and the preference is really, really going to vary team by team. And I mean, I'm sure it does already, but at least from a draft nerd perspective, everyone's going to have their big boards, you know, different all across the board. I feel like there's always like the group thing kind of has happened as you go close to the draft.

But this year, this seems like a draft for the bet, the second best player could go at 15 or 25. Yeah. Right? After Zion, the drop-off is so big. It's all going to be about system and fit. And then a lot of it too, it's like, how much can you improve someone's jump shot? So like the big problem, one of the big problems with RJ, J, Jha, and Culver, it's none of those guys right now, like, well, I can guarantee he's going to be a good to great three point shooter in the NBA.

They've all got different kind of flaws there. And it's like, can they go to a team that can really tweak up that shot? Like, I was talking something like a scout the other day about Culver and he said, oh, you could be like Karris Lever or Josh Richardson. But it's like those guys can, A, Richardson can really shoot it. And it's like, man, even Carouselvert, like, Carouselvert is not shooting well in the NBA. Carouselver was a 40% three-point shooter in college. And his shot has not really translated. Culver is nowhere near that level of shooter right now.

I mean, yeah, like speaking of these types of kind of flawed initiators, what do we even make of Darius Garland, who is kind of hanging around the lottery? We haven't seen him play in months. But I guess teams can definitely kind of project him as. This type of post-Trey Young type of on-ball creator can shoot from anywhere. I don't really know what to make of him, but the mystery is always an element in the NBA draft that appeals to teams. Yeah, it's so hard to say. Darius Garlandsoe, Vanderbilt Point Guard, he tore his meniscus in November.

He only played five games a season, and he essentially only played one game against high-level competition. that was against USC. USC. So, and like, I don't think he played you. I have to look it up. I'm not sure if he played any of these international tournaments,

but there's just so little film to go on. And I might end up being good for him because it's hard to say, really. Like, I don't know. I mean, he had one game against the league competition in college. Yeah. And is this a case where a guy like Kobe White,

we both like him. He wasn't quite as highly regarded entering the season, but definitely once we got, into the thick of things. He really impressed in the final two months of the season

and into the NCAA tournament. Yeah, that's the guy like, and you're watching guys like in November December. So I like Kobe White, but no one's talking about him. She's not only think he'll be a, I'll be drafted this year.

She's like, oh, he'll be great in a couple of years. But he came on so strong and the top of his draft is so weak. I'll have to go back and really watch, but it feels like he could be a guy who could make a real run

up the draft boards going into the pre-draft season. He's got great size. And you wander like at UNC, it felt like they played so recklessly, which is the Roy Williams style. It was like, talk about Fast Team.

It was like Kobe White, just go shoot whatever you feel like, I don't even care. And it's like you wander maybe in a more conservative system, maybe he might be better because he's kind of plays more, there's a little more control

of what he's doing as opposed to just letting him do whatever he wants all the time. But also the fact that he was able to thrive kind of doing whatever he wanted all of the time might fit for a team that's just trying to kind of catch up

with this whole pace and space and pace and pace and pace league that we're kind of entering into. Yeah, he's a fascinating prospect, and I think he might have a Chey Gildjus Alexander-type bump in him come the pre-draft process. Well, and you'll look back at that,

so it's a crazy story with SG. I think it's been talked about, but the Clippers promised him early on the process, shut him down, and he didn't look out for anybody, else the entire time. And like, that's the kind of thing a smart team might be able to do in this draft. If you get the right guy to believe, though, of course, playing in LA helps. Hey, come play in LA. It's all good. But I mean, like, if you look at White, so White is bigger than Jha, bigger than

Garland. And he's a better shooter than RJ and Culver. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to get, like, too far onto him because I wasn't really watching for NBA this year, but he's very, very interesting. Right. And I guess my takeaway is, is, is, It's Zion related because we didn't cover Zion in this previous bit, but I'm kind of warming up to the idea that Zion is the best college prospect of the 21st century. I like it. So here are Zion's per 40 numbers, per 40 minute numbers compared to Kevin Durant's in his one season at Texas. So Zion averaged 30.1 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 2.8 steals, and 2.4 block.

with 3.2 turnovers. Durant's 28.8 points, 12.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 2.1 steals, 2.1 blocks, the same turnovers per 40. And so Zion basically has better numbers across the board outside of rebounds. Same amount of turnovers. But, you know, neither team had the perfect, you know, system and players around them. But, you know, it's college. Of course, that's going to happen.

you can make the argument though that Durant was in a perfect position to succeed because he was basically doing everything that he does in the NBA in college Zion was never really given the full freedom to do the things that he's proven capable of doing because of the players around him and so Durant kind of makes this natural transition

I'm thinking Zion once he gets into the NBA can completely transform himself and become a different playmaker both ends of the floor and the thing is we talk about you know how he's been held back by a lot of his teammates. He still put up better numbers than Durant. That's interesting.

I mean, there's two different questions, right? It's like, who is most dominant college versus who is the better prospect? Because, like, KD was way more raw than Zion was in college. Katie had no point guard. It was like, talk about not being put in just to succeed. Playing with Rick Barnes. It was just, I don't know. Do something.

He's playing with Augustine as a freshman. And then I think you got to put, so like, to me, for sure, Zion's ahead of Simmons, ahead of faults. I think the other guys that have put in this conversation for best prospects is Davis and Towns. Right.

Those guys are pretty incredible prospects coming out of college. And I think Towns was underrated a bit and just discussion. Carl Town is a seven-foot guy who can play defense

and shoot like eight threes a game and score efficiently and pass the ball and defend all over the floor. Like he was up there with any of those guys coming out of college. And then of course Davis,

Davis was incredible. He actually won. I think he was the first player to win player of the year and be the number an overall pick and like, Roger had an article about this. I'd have to go look back and look at it, but it was something like in 30 years. So really it's like Zion versus Towns. It's Zion Towns, Davis, and Duran, right? Those are kind of the four. Am I forgetting anybody else? Not necessarily.

I think with Towns, just the way that he was used at Kentucky as just a strictly back to the basket guy on offense, kind of limited his appeal at the time of kind of draft scouting early on. I think his defensive switchability was apparent, but we didn't really know that he could, you know, be the kind of shooter he is now until he actually got the opportunities to shoot in the NBA. But I do think definitely Anthony Davis is in the conversation there. He was definitely the comparison,

the benchmark that a lot of people use. Kevin Peltin used Anthony Davis as, you know, the main comparison when trying to contextualize Zion. But I think there's a legitimate He was more like a finisher, right? He didn't really have much offense run through him. He was the defensive guy. They threw him lobs and he kind of got garbage baskets more than

I guess that's kind of Zion too really right there. I guess that's interesting right there because both Zion and Anthony Davis presumably will have bigger uses in the NBA than in college because in college both those guys are playing off other elite prospects and were not really given the chance to create too much offense for themselves. I don't know if there are any highlights of those other players who, Zion was making incredible passes.

Just ridiculous passes in space on the move. I mean, he's got some real point card abilities that I just, every time I watch him play, I'm just baffled. And it hasn't really happened in a while for me. I think Durant was actually the last time I was just like, oh, wow, this guy is going to be so good in the NBA. Yeah, man, Zion at the very least, He was definitely the most memorable.

Like, I'll never forget watching him for the first time because he didn't play in the All-Star circuits because he was injured or something. And I watched the game against Kentucky the first night of the season. I'm watching one of my friends were sitting in a bar. After like five minutes, it was like, oh, my God, this is a whole different thing. Like, what we're watching right now compared to anything we've seen. Like, Kentucky guys, oh, we have PJ Washington. He's a lottery pick. It's like, no, this is not even the same sport, but you're playing what Zion's doing over here.

This is truly... It was like, you watched it for like five minutes. Like, all right, it's over. Number one pick, done. This is a complete... This is finished. And it's been a great... I think I've wrote more articles

about Duke this year than like anything I've watched... Any other time I've read done in the ring or like three years. Just because it's been so much fun to watch Zion. Yeah, like, we were all just like frothing to write about Zion. We were all just kind of taking turns.

Like, I remember you and KOC both asking me, like, pitching me articles. I'm like, uh, KOC has it next. Oh, Charks has it next. And then eventually I was like, Dude, I got to clear out. I got to get my takes in. Yeah, man. It's been a fun ride. I guess this leads us, where do you want to see him go on the NBA, Danny?

If you could pick a team. I mean, the Hawks is the number one answer for me. Oh my gosh, Trey and Zion. That'd be incredible. But also Memphis. Memphis would be amazing too. Well, I mean, Zion and J—I mean, really anywhere. Like, obviously, I want Zion in Dallas. Can you imagine Zion, Luca, and K.P. on the same team? I'm already praying about this.

I can't. I honestly can't. It's like, I feel like that's a Knicks fan's worst nightmare? A son's fan's worst nightmare? A son's fan's worst nightmare, definitely. Yeah, I mean, that's my wife's worst nightmare. I'd be doing a lot more Mavs games if they got Zion and Luke on the same team. All right, I think that's all the time we have for this week, right?

Yeah, there's always more time for Zion talk. We can close it there for now. All right. Big shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing and engineering this week. Shout out to KOC. Shout out to all of you. We'll be back next week. Until then.

Playoffs, baby.